the politics and philosophies of the two parties are clearly at odds with each other. president obama wants jobs. republicans want to cut spending right now. don't kid yourself. this is the name of the game and both sides intend to win it. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politics nation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead -- the republicans are on the losing end of the fight for fairness, and they know it. today, house republicans backed down from their ultimatums and said they extend the payroll tax cut to millions of working class americans. it's a sharp reversal from just last week when they argued that any breaks for the middle class had to be paired with deep budget cuts. >> we want to extend this program, but we're going to continue that -- this spending

ought to be offset with reductions in spending elsewhere. >> wow. looks like speaker boehner has seen the polls. he should be fighting for the middle class just as president obama has been doing for months now. >> do we want to keep these tax cuts for wealthiest americans or keep investing in everything else? education, clean energy, a strong military. >> some people go around and say, well, the president is engaging in class warfare. that's not class warfare. that's common sense. that's common sense. >> today the president released his budget for 2013. it's a plan that creates jobs by investing in schools and infrastructure. to pay for it the president would let the bush tax cuts expire for wealthy americans. he'd cut tax breaks for oil, gas

and coal companies and impose a big tax on big banks to recoup costs from the bailout. this is fair. this is common sense. but the gop must not have seen the polling on this one. >> today president obama released a budget that isn't really a budget at all. it's a campaign document. so this is a charade. a charade. >> a charade? good luck with that argument. joining me now is congressman chris van holland, democrat from maryland. governor ed rendell, nbc news political analyst and former dnc chairman. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> good to be with you. >> congressman, let me start with you. democrats want -- wanted to pay the payroll tax cut by asking the wealthy to sacrifice a little more. did the republicans back down on this to protect the rich?

>> it looks like they have backed down in the sense they are finally willing to bring the payroll tax cut to the floor of the house for a vote. we said that if you're going to offset this, you have to ask millionaires to help pay for it and republicans decided, you know, when it comes right down to it, they don't want to ask the wealthy to pitch anything more. and so we'll just pass the payroll tax cut without offsets. but at least they appear to have backed off their efforts to try and pay for that payroll tax cut by socking it to the middle class and middle income taxpayers. we haven't seen the details of their proposal, but hopefully we can move this along at last. >> governor rendell, you know what is amazing to me about this bush tax cut debate is that the republicans talk about the deficit. if -- and i want to show you this on the screen. if the bush tax cuts expire, we would add $5.4 trillion to the

deficit. so how -- and this is over the next decade, of course. how, on the one hand, they argue about the deficit and the debt and on the other hand argue about not receiving over the next $5.4 trillion while protecting millionaires? >> well, you're absolutely right, reverend sharpton. although that figure, i think, is for the entire bush tax cuts expiring, including the middle class. but regardless, what the president has done here, they -- the republicans can talk about it being a campaign document. he's done three basic things. number one, he's increased revenue. and increased revenue in a way that 75% of americans agree with. all the things he did. closing the loopholes. letting the millionaires pay more. all americans -- you know, almost all americans agree with that. number one. number two, he's continued to invest. the budget, invest in things that will actually produce jobs. research and development, energy.

more importantly, infrastructure where we know $1 billion in investments, 25,000 well-paying jobs. and thirdly, it has cut entitlements. you look at the budget and chris can give you the specifics. there are significant reductions in medicaid and medicare in the president's budget. so it's really a budget that is a real budget because it cuts entitlements, cuts entitlement costs. it invests in things that we need to be investing in for job creation. and it produces revenue in a way that americans agree with. >> now i agree, congressman, that we need to increase revenue and all. but how much does it cut into medicaid and medicare? i have a lot of concern. >> the governor is right. it does make some changes, some modifications to medicare, but most of it is asking the pharmaceutical industry to pay more in terms of -- >> not ordinary people. >> right. to simply go back to really where we were in 2003 when

pharmaceutical companies had to pay more in terms of what are known as rebates when the federal government is purchasing prescription drugs for people who are on medicaid. so it would simply go back to that. that would save the taxpayer a lot of money as opposed to the republican proposals which tend to hit medicare beneficiaries whose average income, of course is about $23,000. so while republicans have been trying to hit medicare beneficiaries at the same time as you pointed out, they've been protecting these tax loopholes that benefit folks at the very top. >> the in -- in short, congressman, we're saying that the republican proposal would cost beneficiaries, the middle class, the people that could least afford it. the president's proposal would hit the pharmaceutical companies so therein lies the difference? >> well, that's right. and if you look at the president's proposal compared to the republican budget, we saw last year and which we expect to

be reintroduced again this year, the republicans whacked medicaid by about $700 billion. that's a lot of seniors in nursing homes that would be negatively affected and they also ended the medicare guarantee pushing all the increased costs in medicare that are projected in the future on to the beneficiaries. that's what the republican plan did. >> now, governor, in all of that, does this explain why the president seems to be increasing in popularity among the voters because they seem to be feeling class? if we look at the fight for fairness, maybe began in september. the president has surged in approval while the gop has had a big drop. president obama is up 7 points. republicans in congress down 7 points. is it because this fairness fight that the president has been talking about? these voters and the public seem to be saying that they are with him on this?

>> no question. the voters are, again, to a tune of over 70% with him on the fairness fight. and i think voters also think that the president actually has some plans to create jobs. voters are smart enough to know, if you rebuild a bridge, there are going to be people working on the bridge. people back in steel plants working on the steel to reinforce that bridge. we can understand that. ordinary folks can understand that. so i think it's twofold. it's fairness and that the president has an answer for investing in things that will create jobs and get our economy back on track and get people working. >> now in the middle of all of this, congressman van hollen, i'm hearing that there is a little infighting going on on the republican side. i don't know how much you can look into these things, but there was an op ed on the hill that really talked about -- well, let me be blunt. some jealousy and back stabbing between eric cantor and speaker boehner. so if that is the case, are we

seeing a lot of the infighting in the republican party causing them to be more unreasonable and playing to a certain wing so that they can one up the other one and not really thinking about the american public who gets trampled on in the middle of all of this? >> well, reverend, i haven't seen that particular article about the jockeying among republican house leaders. we, of course, see all the infighting among all the republican presidential nominees who seem to be focused on everything except trying to get our economy going and focused on jobs. as the governor said, and he's been focused on this infrastructure investment piece for a long time -- >> forever. >> the house republicans as we talk here at this moment are still sitting on the president's jobs plan. he introduced that back in september. >> right. >> $50 billion of new investment in roads and bridges and

broadband. all the things that help build the backbone of our inf infrastructu infrastructure. meanwhile, republicans seem to be fighting among themselves on these different issues rather than focused on the american people and jobs. >> congressman, let me ask you before we have to go. will they, republicans, have to back down on this budget, on his infrastructure investment like they backed down on the payroll tax cut seeing the polls. will they have to ultimately back down? >> well, it is simply common sense, as governor rendell said. that when you invest more in roads and bridges, you are putting people in the construction industry back to work. and we have 14% unemployment. however, i would say this, reverend. common -- never bank on common sense moving a lot of the house republican leadership. it hasn't worked so far when it comes to taking a balanced approach to the deficit. asking the folks at the very top to put in more. and it hasn't worked with respect to the president's jobs plan. they continue to sit on that and

passing that would be common sense. so i -- we need to keep pushing. the american people are clearing on the side of investing in our infrastructure and modernizing our bridges and roads and building and repairing new schools. they just need -- the american people need to keep calling their members of congress and hopefully common sense will prevail. >> we'll have to leave it there. you're right. my mother used to always tell me common sense is not all that common. congressman van hollen and governor ed rendell, thanks for coming on the show tonight. >> your mom was a smart woman. >> yes, she was. ahead -- new poll numbers show the president surging. this is the cost of the gop primary. the president is up, and the republicans are down. plus, a milestone day for the fight for equality. democrats defy chris christie and pass a gay marriage bill. we'll talk to the lawmaker who is in a very public feud with the new jersey governor. and we say good-bye to a

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good news for president obama. in a new poll, and why the republicans are hurting their own cause. that's coming up. feel the power my young friend. mmm! [ male announcer ] for excellent fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion, also refreshing plus tea. could've had a v8. monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go.

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become a wedge issue. and it is. for the republican party. today republican senator susan collins and olympia snowe called the revised birth control rule a good one. under the compromise, religious institutions are not required to pay for birth control. the senators aren't the only ones praising the move. a majority of catholics support it. 57% are for it. but you'll never guess who's not. >> the fact that the white house thinks this is about contraception is the whole problem. this is about freedom of religion. it's right there in the first amendment. we will be voting on that in the senate and you can anticipate that that would happen as soon as possible. >> it's a distinction without a difference. it's an accounting gimmick or fig leaf. it's not a compromise. the president has doubled down. >> what has to be protected here is the faith-based rights of conscience. and that's what this debate is

about. your either for religious freedom or you're not. >> and on trial, and on the trail, the culture wars are red hot. >> there's no compromise here. they are forcing religious organizations either directly or indirectly to pay for something that they find is a deeply morally, you know, wrong thing. and this is not what the government should be doing. >> you have a president who has launched an assault on religious conviction. i find it extraordinary that he feels he can tell the catholic church what they have to provide for their employees. >> joining me now is msnbc analyst richard wolffe and msnbc contributor maria teresa kumar. executive director of voter latino. great to have you both with us tonight. >> thank you reverend. >> richard, let me put this number back up. 57% of catholics like the plan.

how did this bill winning play for the republicans? >> it's not, but it could fire up their base. there are some christian conservative voters who want to believe there's a war on religion and that this president is faithless and communist and all the rest of it. and this feeds into it. the problem is it's a zero-sum game and maybe not even that because it's also firing up the voters republican need to get into the white house and to hold on to the house in the fall. and that means especially suburban women voters, independent voters and, yes, catholics, too in these battleground states. so whatever they are gaining on one side, they are losing in droves on the other. and you that there are catholic institutions and groups who support the president's compromise, it's not just a very diverse group of catholics you are looking at, but they are divided on these issues and siding with the president. >> now, maria, what is very troubling to me is when you hear the republicans opposing this saying it's about religious freedom. but what about the religious

freedom of the employees of these institutions? it's like their religions, their convictions don't matter. and then when you look at the fact that the catholic support for the president's new rule. catholic health association and association of jesuit colleges and universities. catholic charities usa all support the move. so they don't have religious conviction? what are they saying? >> reverend you hit the nail on the head. that's absolutely right. this is where i think the republicans go down a rabbit hole. first of all, the more the president can actually frame this not as a moral religious issue but a pocketbook issue. we at the end of the day, regardless of religion, want to make sure the american people are able to afford contraception. that's about $500 extra saved by working women everywhere, number one. number two, the more -- and this is really an example of the obama campaign. i don't think it was intentional, but turning lemons into lemonade. the more he can keep this social

issue at the forefront between santorum and mitt romney, mitt romney who seems to be the front-runner, he immediately loses knrp? because santor sum the darling of social conservativism. he's a catholic and can speech so much to the base. if this issue had heated up before cpac, they had decided who their delegates went, to they would have gone to santorum and santorum would have walked out with those delegates. that's ying for the short term this is a smart move by the obama administration. the more he can keep this on the front page. >> rich and maria mentioned rick santorum. santorum said he had problems with birth control before this mandate was even an issue. he said this back in october. >> the dangers of contraception in this country. the whole sexual libertine idea. many in the christian faith have said, well, contraception is okay. it's not okay. it's a license to do things in a

sexual realm. >> so are we now to have government decide on people's religious beliefs, on people's motive for contraception when contraception is used for any number of health reasons as well. the majority of american women and the majority of catholic women have used contraception. i mean, does that even matter to this crowd? >> yeah, it is a curious contradiction. they are saying on the one hand government shouldn't tell the catholic church what to do but on the other hand, government should tell every voter what to do in the bedroom. there's a complete downright contradiction and confusion. by the way, all of this is off topic. voters want to know about jobs and the economy. that's how republicans sold themselves to voters in 2010. that's how they took back the house. maybe for some parts of the primary voting population in this republican contest, this

really matters. but for the rest of america, this is an extremist kind of approach to what is actually seen as, for most people norkts a moral issue but a health issue. and if you care about abortions, let's face it. the takeaway contraception birth control you make it harder to get. you'll end up with more abortions. >> you know, i look at it a little different. i have some firm religious beliefs but i don't want to see the government tell the catholic church or any other church what to do but i don't want to see the catholic church or any other church tell the government what to do. aren't we talking about they are saying to the government in effect, we want your money. we want your medicaid or whatever, our institutions use, but we'll tell you what we'll abide by according to government laws or not. how can we have a society that's run like that? >> well, reverend, that's where the big contradiction is. the majority of catholic health care providers do provide contraception. it's the bishops really pushing

this forward. what i would advise the obama campaign to do is keep that conversation open with the bishops but say we will continue the conversation but where we will not compromise is that we're going to strap more -- strap more so that the american people are actually paying more of their bills instead of sharing the cost. i think it's also an important opportunity for the obama campaign to start dissecting the health care benefits of his health care package. such as the fact that you can all of a sudden have health care with pre-existing conditions. the fact if your 26-year-old is still living at home, they can still have health insurance and now contraception. and to drive the point home that wolf was saying earlier, that richard was saying earlier, as long as this campaign, the 2012 campaign is about social issues, obama wins hands down because he doesn't have to get into the meat and potatoes of job creation, keeping your homes and so on and so forth. >> richard wolffe and maria teresa kumar, thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. still ahead -- republicans love to bash the safety net.

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welcome back. for months now, gop candidates have been attacking president obama for allegedly trying to

make us all dependent on the government. but as "the new york times" points out, even government critics are among those benefiting from the safety net. in fact, it's the republican leaning states that tend to take in more in federal benefits than they pay out in federal taxes. gop critics in places like kansas, alabama and arizona denounce uncle sam. but they are more than happy to pocket federal money to keep their states up and running. and despite what some republicans think, the poor are getting less and less from the government. the poorest fifth of americans receive just over one-third of government benefits down from more than a half in 1979. the times says the middle class has been receiving the difference, so republicans claim they care about the middle class americans, but then attack the

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for your family at e-trade. welcome back to "politics nation." mitt romney may have won the caucus in maine this weekend, but republicans are losing faith in him as a front-runner. a new pew poll shows rick santorum now leading romney nationally. surging in the first place from the back of the pack. romney muddles along with support from less than one-third of republican voters. this gop primary has turned into a free-fall. that's hurting the party and these candidates. it's showing in their matchups with president obama. the pew poll shows the president now has an eight-point lead over romney and the president beats rick santorum by ten points. it's clear some republicans are in a state of panic. worried that romney may not be as severely conservative as he

is claiming. >> i have never heard anybody say i'm severely conservative. i've never heard it said. >> i am not convinced. and i don't think that the majority of gop and independent voters are convinced. and that is why you don't see romney get over that hump. >> he seems around conservatives like a well-meaning, earnest tourist in a country where he doesn't speak the language. >> and republican columnist david brooks writes, quote, many people fear that romney is a suck-up. if he can't fix that problem, he may win the republican nomination, but it won't be worth much. joining me now, bob shrum, the democratic strategist and a professor at nyu. he just wrote a column for the week called romney on the precipice. and chip saltsman, a republican strategist who was mike huckabee's campaign manager in

2008. thanks for being here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> bob, let me ask you, how much is this anyone but romney primary hurting the whole overall gop race? >> i don't know if it's hurting the overall gop race. i think it's hurting romney a lot. i mean, we've seen a remarkable, over a period of time, a remarkable revelation of character and record and a self-immolation of gaffes like severely conservative. people think that he is out of touch, that he's untrustworthy. this is a guy who abandons issues of conscience, throws them away like an old pair of sneakers so he can run in the opposite direction. i'm not here to defend rick santorum. the fact he's ten points behind and romney is eight points behind, people know a lot about romney. they don't know a lot about santorum yet.

and so i wouldn't render a final judgment on him. romney is upside down on his favorable/unfavorables with independents. he's 44/43 in the ppp poll with republicans. and he's now behind, according to ppp by 15 points in michigan. if that happens, this race is thrown up in the air. >> now let me ask you, chip, i mean, how -- how do you get around what even david brooks says in "the new york times," which i consider conservative, that even if romney gets through all of this with santorum, that the nomination may be worthless because of the damage being done in the process of him trying to win. >> well, we always have this in very tough primaries that we say, oh, whoa is me. this tough primary is hurting the party and it's going to destroy the nominee. we thought that four years ago when barack obama and hillary clinton were clubbing each other. that didn't turn out to be so good for us. go tack back-to 2004 in a tough

primary. we had the republican president. that tended to be good for us. you never know what's going to happen. one thing we found out is polls change not just day-to-day, week to week, month to month bhop is up, who is down. probably the one person out there is jon huntsman. he's the only one that didn't get to lead the polls. this is the time for rick santorum to make something out of it. at the end of the day, a tough primary makes you stronger. is it pretty? no. is it fun for us? no. but this is how we choose a nominee and ultimately the winner will be stronger for our party. >> but let me show you this. 50% say he is coervative. 48% says he doesn't take consistent positions. bob, you were involved in 2004. i ran in 2004. >> i remember. >> we were not in a tough primary where people didn't believe that whatever we were saying we didn't really believe or that we weren't democrat enough. there were differences maybe on the war. there were differences on who could get votes. you are talking about people

don't trust romney as a person. that he doesn't really say what he means and means what he says. that's different. 2008, obama and hillary weren't arguing about whether they were authentic. they were arguing about policy, not integrity. >> the biggest difference, and this is where i disagree with chip between 2008 and now. in 2008, the process went on and on and on because democrats like both candidates, they wanted to nominate both candidates. in 2012, republicans seem to want to nominate none of these candidates. they are supposed to nominate mitt romney. he's the choice of the establishment. he's the next guy in line. he's raised such fundamental questions about his character that republicans are pulling back from him. so in michigan, what he's going to have to do is channel santorum on social issues. smear santorum, which i'm not sure will work. it could backfire. and hope that the suburban vote thinks that he doesn't really mean what he says. that's a tough combination to pull off. >> let me give you an even

tougher one, chip. when you look at what is happening to independents, because you can't win a general election without independents. november, president obama was 41% to mitt romney's 53%. now president obam is 51% to willard mitt romney's 42%. that's not bad enough news for you. 41% of republicans say they want another candidate. 25% of conservatives not excited about voting in november. if you have got that level of nonenthusiasm, look of enthusiasm and independents now turning the other way on you, how do you paint that as a good picture? >> well, i think right now there's a lot of battle going on in our primary. millions of dollars spent against mitt romney that causes some of that. once we get this nomination taken care of whether it's mitt romney, rick santorum, we'll right that ship. reverend sharpton, i'm getting the feeling you may not like mitt romney which is too bad.

you may be on his short list for vp. you should say some nice things about him occasionally. >> if i really wanted to hurt mitt romney, i would release that you just said that i was on the short list. that would finish him off with all of the right wing republicans. >> i think you could kind of add a little awesomeness to his campaign. >> i'm sure i'm on his short list, but not for vp. >> you would add some authenticity to his campaign. chip is being a really good sport here because in the last race, the role that romney played by staying in was to prevent mike huckabee from beating john mccain. he siphoned off just enough votes in south carolina and florida with the nomination, that is settled on mccain. that's the role newt gingrich has right now. if i were the romney campaign imight tell shelton adeleson, the caseino magnate in las vega, keep giving him money because whatever he does, he sakes votes away from santorum. >> he did get the cpac straw

vote which surprised some, at least in -- outside the republican circles. but then santorum and them tried to poo-poo that and say he just stacked the room. will the cpac straw poll win help him in some of the right wing counties in michigan and the states coming up? >> yes, it can't hurt. it can't hurt. we've all been involved in straw polls before. that's how you win a straw poll. you pack a room with your supporters so they'll vote for you. it shows mitt romney has an organization and knows how to do that. will it help in michigan? it should help a little. i think romney's record and his family tradition in michigan will help him more. santorum will take it right to him in michigan which is a gutsy move. could be a smart move and talk about the issues important to him. what mitt romney's real problem is what you started the show off with. he hasn't told us who he is what he believes and why he's doing this. he gives his talking points. i want to know who this man is.

he's got a great life story. he's raised a great family. started a very successful business. went into the olympics. turned that around. he's done some good things. that's what he should be talking about, not the talking points he's been following in his speeches of late. >> but chip is telling us all these great things about willard, but willard is not telling us what makes us believe maybe it's not true. >> well, i don't think he doon his biography alone. i think he's got to get out there and say here's what i stand for. one of his problems is that he was depending on the economy being in deeper and deeper and deeper trouble so he could be the ceo who could go fix it. the economy is getting better and continues to get better, this isn't me. this is "the wall street journal" editorial page, saying mitt romney's got to go out there and tell people what he's about. we know what santorum is about. this campaign is moving to social issues and i think that helps in the republican primary rick santorum. >> well, i asked mitt romney one time. i asked him, what is he all about. he asked me, what time is it?

bob shrum, tim saltsman, thank you. ahead -- big news about marriage equality in washington and new jersey. there's something happening in many parts of the country, but chris christie is vowing to stop the progress in his traps. and saying good-bye to a legend. remembering a life and analyzing what her death means. whitney houston. all that up next. ♪ how will i know when you have tough pain, do you want fast relief?

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we're back with a major step forward in the fight for equality. and a showdown coming in new jersey. today the new jersey state senate approved a bill that legalized same-sex marriage. it goes to the state assembly thursday where it's expected to pass. and then it goes to governor chris christie who has vowed to veto it. >> rather than having stalemate and dead dlock on this issue whh is inevitably where it will lead if they pass the legislation and send it to me because i will not sign it. it will be vetoed. let's let the people of new jersey decide. let's put the question of same-sex marriage on the ballot this fall in the hands of the people. >> washington's governor promised to try to persuade

christie to try to change his mind. today she signed the bill legalizing same-sex marriage in her state. washington is the seventh stoot along with the district of columbia, to recognize same-sex marriage. but new jersey is not one of them. and chris christie is in a tough spot. we're joined by new jersey state assemb assemblyman reed. he's the sponsor of the gay marriage bill. it's a pleasure to have you with us. it goes to the state assembly thursday. if it passes, how tough of a position does it put governor christie in? >> the governor at the end of the day is a moderate. he can talk red state and throw out red meat all he wants. he has to decide whether he wants to play to the red staters or moderation in the state of new jersey. >> now what surprised a lot of observers today is you got republican votes in the senate today for same-sex marriage. >> i think that was a pleasant surprise for all of us. we had two republican senators voted. we expect many more republican

assembly people to do the right thing and stand up for equality. >> so if you have republicans in the assembly and in the senate, voting for it, how does he then veto it and not look like he's not even listening to some of the members of his own party. >> i hope like scrooge he changes his mind and comes with an epiphany. i think that this is the right thing to do. this is -- speaks for many of our constituents in the state who want moderation. new jersey should be the eighth state to recognize same-sex marriage. we hope at the end of the day the governor changes his mind. >> you challenged him when he tried to say we should put this to a referendum that if civil rights had been put to a referendum it would have voided a lot of things. he called you a name for that? >> i'm not too bothered. i think my college friends used to call me that as well. but the seriousness of the issue -- >> he's not one of your college friends. >> the seriousness of the issue is that civil rights issues should not be on the ballot. you shouldn't -- you should not

object to the madisonian principle that majority wins should never be over the minority rights. and this issue or any kind of civil rights issue should never be on the ballot. it's not appropriate. >> let me show you. i was on a show the other night with -- where that came up between a conservative and i. and let me show you the encounter. >> if you have a situation where state by state people's minds are changing. you look at people under the age of 40. they favor same-sex marriage far more. if you have it where people heard the argument and people really embrace this. fair enough. that argument is lost and you're not going to be able to reverse that by referendum. >> no, but you have tyranny by the majority. you cannot have rights voted on. if you do not -- the role of government is to protect people. and if you had civil rights voted on, i would be sitting in the back of the bus and you'd be

sitting next to me. so don't think about voting for rights. >> i mean, the fact is that there would have been so southern state that would have voted for civil rights. what are we talking about setting this kind of precedent here. another area. but he's comparing it to the civil rights movement in the south. >> and that was my point that segregation laws or any other civil rights law is not appropriate to be on the ballot. and even his clarified statement of perhaps there should be a better time. the question is when is that better time? even now or later? so i think that we need to take the tough decisions and vote on them. >> i don't see how he compares the two or how we deal with any of these issues like that. thank you for coming tonight, state assembly man reed gusciora and thank you for your fight. >> thank you. ahead, the tragic death of whitney houston and the difficult questions that linger.

♪ how will i know

♪ so i'm saving all my love yes, i'm saving all my love yes, i'm saving all my love for you ♪ we lost a legend over the weekend. whitney houston, one of the greatest voices of her generation died saturday in beverly hills. she was 48. whitney was in a league all of her own. a voice transcended genres and pierced the soul. ♪ and i will always love you ♪ >> yesterday i took part in a

service in los angeles honoring whitney, remembering what we loved most about her. >> a lot of artists can hit notes, but they don't hit us. sing words, but they have no meaning. yes, she had problems, but she sang. and long after all of the scandals and gossip and innuendo is gone and the garbage pail of time, we will remember that voice. >> her rise to stardom was fast. she racked up countless awards. but her fall and unsuccessful efforts to come back are well chronicled. it's hard to believe it's been more than a decade since her last big award. whitney houston was an unusual talent. even in her negative times, she was someone that all respected.

i think he unsung heroes are those that tried to stand with her. her mother, the legend herself, cissy houston, and others, should be given credit. those that used her should be exposed. joining me now is ken sunshine, president of sunshine sax. he represents, as an adviser and press representative, pretty much anyone who is anyone in hollywood. ken, can someone in the music industry, an executive or produce ver prevented this tragedy? where is the industry missing in these countless tragedies we keep seeing? >> see, i think it's not a simplistic answer that one can give. the fact is a lot of people made a lot of money because of the brilliant artistry of whitney houston. and unfortunately, she's not the first great talent to die tragically young and to have been afflicted with problems of

substance abuse. and i just think as opposed to pointing fingers, i think we as an entertainment business have to do better. this tragic spiral where you see the greatest among us go downhill and i don't think anybody was shocked at what happened, unfortunately. >> even though we don't know it's expected to drugs or alcohol, we know the problems that she had a history of. and that's all we're hearing. we're not hearing any of the positive. >> that's right. and that's not fair either. but i think the entertainment industry once and for all needs to take stock of what it does to some of our greats. and it's not an easy answer. and, you know, adults can do what they want in the end, but there's something about brilliance and drugs that seems to lead to a downward spiral and death at a terrible young age among the best. >> can the industry do something about the environment? i mean, i have known a lot of

artists, and i had a friendship with a lot of them. i knew whitney not as well as i knew others, but she came and performed at national action networks dinner. i knew her mother, a legendary singer. the environment, cissy houston really tried to work with her daughter, and as her daughter said, the environment, though, seems to -- like the guys at the top of the industry see these talents as cash cows. ka-ching. that's it. they don't care about anything. we've got to challenge. it's not about finger pointing but about how many funerals do we have to go to before we say, wait a minute. what's going on here? >> i couldn't agree more. amy winehouse, dead at a terribly young age who was about to become a super, superstar. the numbers go on and on and on. and, yes, the industry must take responsibility. it's not as simple as, these are adults. you know, we're just in the business to make money. it's not that simple. it's also an industry filled with the most creative geniuses

in the world who don't want to tolerate that. nobody is happy about this. this is a terrible tragedy. if there's any good that can come out of this, maybe once and for all, the industry will take some more responsibility and dr. we've got to do something about that. >> i think that the industry should use this as a wake-up call because there was no one who had more of a beautiful voice and a beautiful story. and i think that we should say, wait a minute. let -- i don't know what the answer is, but i know that we need to start asking the right questions. >> i couldn't agree more. >> thank you ken sunshine for your time tonight. i want to also give our condolences to her mother and her daughter. people forget that they are our superstars but they are somebody's daughter, somebody's mother. and i know that cissy houston did all she could for her daughter. i wish the environment of the industry was there to support cissy. we stand with her and will always remember that voice.