♪ obama draws the line. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, i'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. president obama did not say those words when he released his 2013 budget but may well have said them after three years of trying to meet republicans halfway. the president today produced a document that reflects his priorities and is designed for his re-election. spend now to keep the economy -- the economic recovery going and

worry later about the deficit. also, look for the church and birth control issue to show a new divide now. republican versus democrat. both parties think they are playing a winning hand here. and that goes double for rick santorum who says insurance simply shouldn't cover birth control ushd any circumstance. was last week an issue dividing some democrats is now a wedge issue separating out right leaning republicans. when mitt romney called himself severely conservative he sound like e.t. trying to phone home. or as chris orr wrote in the new republic, romney sounds like he's impersonating a conservative republican. "that persona, angry, simple-minded, xenophobic, jingoistic is exactly what romney imagines the average gop voter to be. romney's fair to close the deal. obviously a huge opening for santorum. wait until you see the polls tonight. and tragically we've now added whitney houston's name to a list of singers that includes morrison, janis joplin and most recently amy winehouse.

what is it all about. let me finish with the politics and philosophies of two parties clearly at odd with each other. we begin with president obama drawing a bold line with republicans. he wants to create jobs and they want to keep squabbling over debt reduction. eugene robinson is a pulitzer prize-winning columnist and john feehery is a republican strategist. clearly a political document as well as a budget. he's making clear he wants to create jobs. down the road he'll get the debt reduction. right now wants to create jobs, infrastructure, lower taxes on payroll taxes, things like that. down the road, deficit reduction. >> right. and also to -- say this is what i believe. this is what i think we should do which is what i think most economists say. you stimulate the economy now and do your deficit reduction a couple of years out. but clearly he's done wigs trying to engineer a budget and spending proposals in order to

take into account republican priorities because he's tried it before and never gets anywhere. >> it seems to me, john, starting around august when the republican candidates, your guys, rejected even in concept a 10 for 1 deal. $10 of spending cuts for $1 of revenue increase. he realized he wasn't going to make a deal with your side. so he said, why don't i do what i do best and democrats sell best. let's create jobs. so he started with the american jobs bill. laugh at it if you will. it's his bill and you don't have one. two, cut the payroll tax. keep it down so people who are more likely to hire people. let the republicans talk about debt reduction. that's his philosophy. and that's his politics. >> his philosophy is what he did in the middle east which is lead from behind. he's actually -- >> it worked, didn't it? >> not in the middle east. >> where is this guy gadhafi? >> let's see what happens in syria and iran and iraq and iran and israel. it's a real mess in the middle east. but anyway -- >> your guy did a really good job. w. did a great job over there.

>> he's leading from behind on the budget. senate democrats are not going to do the budget. the only ones that are going to lead on the budget are going to be the house republicans. after the end of this budget cycle, ten years, the -- because of the obama budget, if the obama budget was put in place, which it won't be, my son will inherit a $26.3 trillion debt. that is a -- it's a big deal. it's a political document. i think it's an irresponsible budget. i think he's going to -- the problem with the president is people don't think he's actually leading right now. >> okay. a lot of that debt we know comes about because of what he inherited. the president defend his budget saying we need to keep the economy growing right now. no time to be cutting spending right now. let's watch him. >> the main idea in the budget is this. at a time when our economy is growing and creating jobs at a faster clip, we've got to do everything in our power to keep this recovery on track by reducing our deficit in the long term, what that allows us to do is to invest in the things that

will help grow our economy right now. we can't cut back on those things that are important for us to grow. we can't just cut our way into growth. we can cut back on the things we don't need, but we also have to make sure that everyone is paying their fair share for the things we do need. >> there you have it. no budget cuts in the short run and basically make the richer pay more taxes. part of the budget meant to jump-start the economy as the president just said. he's proposing $500 billion in transportation projects. $141 billion on defense spending and research and $8 billion for job training. jobs and job training now. no spending cuts now. trying to get the rich to pay their share. >> and the question is not just how big the debt is that our children will inherit. it's how big the economy our children will enhirit and the debt is a percentage of gdp.

and if you let the recovery stall, if you let us go into a vicious cycle of no growth or low growth, then you end up as a percentage in percentage terms of having a bigger debt problem than you would if you imagine to stimulate growth. >> do you think the republicans if they were in power right now would really be cutting spending right now? would they really be doing that at a time they are barely getting out of this recession? >> i know what they'd do. they'd reform entitlements which are killing the long-term -- >> that's not going to help us get out of this recession. >> think about the long term. s&p said that we are -- lost our aaa rating because of the lack of leadership from people like president obama. we need -- >> he offered your guys a deal. they wouldn't take a 10 to 1 deal. john, you are out of date here. you know the president -- would you take this fight up? wasn't the president, he was ready to cut the worst deal for the liberal side of things and your guy said no deal. the tea party guys --

>> boehner couldn't deliver. >> what the republicans said it s they didn't want job-killing tax increases. they didn't want that. and the president wanted job-killing tax increases. >> a 10 to 1 deal and you turn him down. >> you don't increase taxes on job creators and also -- >> normally the republicans are about 50/50 on these arguments. he comes off with a really good argument. he went to the candidates and leadership and said how about a deal that favors you guys. you won the last election in 2010. here's your deal and you guys coughed it back up. >> you and i both know the president walked out on that deal. was not a real deal. there was not a real deal offered and the fact of the smaert all those spending cuts he's had were ridiculous. they were illusionary. >> you are rewriting history. that's not what happened at all. he had a deal with boehner and boehner couldn't deliver. >> we're past that because the president -- the president

decided, since september, he's going to get re-elected. and he's going to do it by creating jobs. the american jobs program, lower taxes, payroll taxes, people hire people. your people opposed that. they're still arguing about it as we go into this spring. won't give them a year-long extension. why are you against it? >> actually house republicans offered a full-year extension. actually going to pass a full-year extension. they're going to pass it in the house and see what the senate does with it. the senate can kind of screw it up. >> what are you cutting? >> they just offered that today. >> it's a clean full-year extension. no cuts, nothing else on the bill? >> that's what they offered. >> breaking news here. >> earlier today, the president explain idea the bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire for the wealthiest americans. let's watch. >> right now, we're scheduled to spend nearly $1 trillion more on what was intended to be a temporary tax cut for the wealthiest 2% of americans.

do we want to keep these tax cuts for wealthiest americans or do we want to keep investing in everything else? education, clean energy, a strong military. care for our veterans. we can't do both. we can't afford it. some people go around and they say, well, the president is engaging in class warfare. that's not class warfare. that's common sense. that's common sense. >> common sense, john feehery to tax the rich a little more? >> i think -- >> tax rates are -- >> what is common sense is to have real tax reform to get rid of all -- >> we had a pretty good progressive tax system under clinton. we had a booming. 39% top rate. >> we should shrink the rates. we need more people paying taxes but we need a fair tax where you get rid of all the loopholeses. >> if that would work, the george bush cut taxes like crazy and here we are. >> tax reform --

>> i watched this whole debate. we watch every primary and every caucus night. not one republican said let's go back to george w. bush's policies. let's go back to the bush administration. going back to the clinton era. to the '90s. the boom. >> extend the -- >> republicans were quick to attack the president's budget today. >> the president's budget is a gloomy reflection of his failed policies of the past, not a bold plan for america's future. our nation needs washington to demonstrate some courage with a budget that honestly addresses the near and long-term challenges we face. instead, the president offered a collection of rehashes, gimmicks and tax increases that will make our economy worse. >> boehner is right. >> he could have written this years ago, that line. >> this budget is -- as we all know, it's already dead on arrival. it's not going to make a mark beyond next week. it's a ridiculous -- >> but the president is going to get his way. so you bring us good news tonight.

you're ahead of me on the news. the president is going to get what he wanted which is a reduction for the whole year in the payroll tax? >> the republicans said they were going to support that. >> you've given up? >> they're going to pay for the rest of the spending the democrats want, but they're going to have -- >> gene, it's a victory. >> it sounds like some party wants to change the subject but, fine. >> that's what i'm hearing that thir they're -- >> let me ask you, i think it's everybody's concern who is concerned about his re-election. if you have a 3% growth rate, the unemployment rate keeps going down. a 2% rate it goes up again. >> right. >> and if the republicans get their way they'll get the growth rate down. the economy will get squeezed down. it will happen if you get your way. >> well, i certainly hope that that's not what republicans are wishing. would it be -- >> we want a responsible budget plan that -- >> you squeeze down spending right now. you reduce this economic growth. >> the unemployment rate. >> as a practical matter,it's not going to be a squeeze.

what the growth rate ends up as, you're absolutely right. it will have a lot to do with the president's re-election. looks pretty good. >> we got some clarity on this discussion. what's going on is the president of the united states is pushing for what is clearly, i agree if you are saying it a political document. it is aimed at creating jobs, letting everybody know he's creating jobs, put the focus on job creation from now until next november because the only issue that's going to matter to your party is the unemployment rate. not how much the deficit is going down or how much the debt is going down. you'll score him on what he wants to do. and that's why he's doing it. thank you eugene robinson and john feehery. all they'll talk about next fall is the unemployment rate. coming up, that fight between the obama administration and the catholic church over with control. well, we'll see where that goes. it's certainly changed directions. liberal catholics are now on board with the president. both sides, republicans and democrats, think it's a winner. it's a battle between the left and the right. the center seems to be going with the president.

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in the republican race this year, not everyone is getting a home state bump in the polls. check out the "hardball" scoreboard. in michigan, rick santorum has a 15-point lead in the new ppp poll. 15-point lead over romney. romney's at 24%, santorum is at 39%. in georgia, which votes on super tuesday on march 6th, newt gingrich leads mitt romney by 14 points in the new mason dixon poll. newt 43%. santorum there a distant third at 12%. now look at pennsylvania. santorum's home state which doesn't vote until april. santorum has a one-point lead over romney in the latest susquehanna poll. 30% to 29%. i think that is important to note. and gingrich at 13%. if he can beat him there, that's a big win for santorum.

there's no compromise here. they are force reglidgeuous organizations either directly or incorrectly to pay for something they feel is a deeply morally, wrong thing. and this is not what the government should be doing. >> he's wrong there. welcome back to "hardball." rick santorum opposes president obama's compromise on contraceptive coverage. doesn't surprise me at all. he has an issue he thinks is tailor made for him. could rick santorum ride this to the nomination? is this the perfect political outcome for the obama administration? john lew said they didn't expect to win over the bishops on this. has obama won over the middle? >> we didn't expect to get the universal support of the bishops or all catholics. i think that what we have here is a policy that reflects bringing together of two very important principles in a way that's true to the american tradition. >> david corn is an msnbc

political analyst and bureau chief for mother jones magazine. the two principles there, with clear respect for the first amendment, religious liberty, but also respect for women's rights and what's seen by today's standards as full health coverage. >> the interesting thing about this was the obama administration made this decision after much deliberation and internal discussion. and they got caught up in this firestorm that obviously they didn't see coming. afterwards it's obvious they should have seen it coming and our friends all last week on this show and elsewhere were saying what went wrong here. but they ended up getting to a point -- >> by the way iappreciated what they say. >> they ended up getting to a really good point from them. policywise and politically. they got all this response and said, hey. we're going to take another look at this. we don't like getting clobbered by the bishops or anyone else. they came up with a compromise that has the same outcome. women will still be able to get contraception without copay. >> the church zoent to --

>> the only people who have an issue here are those who make the claim that obama wants to have a war on religion. that's a far right enterprise. you saw rick santorum -- >> in the eyes of the people who like this fight, we're the bad guys. i think santorum wants this issue. >> of course he does. >> you tell me why. >> on friday, at cpac which we talked about last week. after the compromise had been announced you had mitt romney and rick santorum certainly beforehand and newt gingrich afterwards all saying that obama has a war on religious liberty. he doesn't like religion and they are trying to appeal to the religious right voters. so three guys out there doing this. two of them are catholic. one is a longtime catholic. that's rick santorum. newt was a convert. and mitt romney was a mormon whom some evangelical christians still have problems with. rick santorum has the longest pedigree as someone to talk on these issues. he's making the most effective

run on romney. >> let's take a look at some numbers. this was taken last week before the compromise by the nonpartisan public religion institute. here it is. shows broad support even among catholics for employers to pay for health care plans that cover contraceptives. 55% among all americans support. 40% disagree. among all catholics, even more agree. 58% of catholics agree. among -- this is a weird political way. white catholics being nonhispanic is 50%. there you have the strength of the position. i would say just guessing after the compromise on friday when the president came out forcefully and forthrightly said, okay. we didn't get it right the first time. we'll make sure it's the insurance companies that handle this matter and pay for it and not make the religious organizations, even catholic charities and people like universities and colleges to do it. so he fixed it. what i liked about what you just said. a willingness to listen. >> yes. >> and to tweak and to fix when you aren't exactly right the first time. >> people don't like politicians who say they are right all the time unless you are talking about the extremes on either side of the ideological

spectrum. for someone to come out and say i made a good faith effort. we kind of screwed the pooch here. didn't take into account what some people said even though we looked at it early but we're going to be flexible and change and come up with a compromise that is likely to be highly popular with people. i think it's telling. it's a good quality to have. >> by the way, i want to say this. i don't speak for anybody on this show except myself. there are a lot of people out there who are catholics who are democrats, who are progressives by the new term, liberals by the old term who believe in women's rights these days but also recognize that their church shouldn't be abused. shouldn't be asked to do something it doesn't believe, even if we do. so i think they did handle it very well. i thought the president understood exactly this. late friday, an interesting nuance. late friday afternoon, after he heard the president's conciliatory remarks and his compromise, archbishop timothy dolan of new york said in a statement the u.s. conference of bishops sees initial opportunities in preserving the

principles of religious freedom after president obama's announcement today. a few hours later, the bishops across the country said in a statement, the only complete solution to this religious liberty problem is for hhs to rescind the mandate of those objectionable services. alex wagner joins us, lie colleague up there in new york. you've been covering this as well. your sense as to how the president handled it. >> last week i thought it was a massive fumble. but i think the reaction from the bishops and both from the gop over the weekend and today is going to actually help the white house in the long run. if we're looking at the 2012 race, the idea that now the right is willing to litigate the issue of birth control, not abortion, but birth control among all private employers, i think works incredibly well for the president. looking at the independent and swing vote, these are women he has to appeal to. they tend to be younger. 60% of the swing voters are under the age of 49. about a quarter minority. this is an issue that resonates with every woman in america.

>> you went over it rather quickly. the issue is no longer the exemption from religious organizations like catholic charities or other religious groups. the issue is whether the national health care plan promulgated and passed by the president and signed by the congress should include health care which includes reproductive -- not reproductive. should include very narrowly birth control and the right is opposing that. >> right. i thing right has miscalculated fop a certain degree they think they can wave the religious liberties banner and they'll have a big tent underneath it. it's a gross miscalculation. again, especially when you look at the demographics. this is an issue of birth control and contraception. every woman has made a decision about it. it's an incredibly personal issue and i think the right is on the wrong side here. >> even though the catholic church takes a position against birth control, still, the fact is it does reduce the amount of abortions. that's the number one way, obviously, besides abstinence. but the number one way to prevent it.

>> the numbers are staggering. 99% of catholic women who engage in sex use some form of birth control. so the church doesn't have a lot to stand on here. >> by the way, the church knows that. i go to the catholic church. i know something you don't know. when you look into the pews, very few families of eight anymore. >> exactly. >> something is going on there. >> it's not all -- >> the point is a great one. >> not rhythm either. >> if the republican party is going to fuse itself to the catholic church on these issues, it's going to end up in a minority position. >> i think the church has -- i've always accepted the right of the church to its moral authority. in terms of law, in terms of public policy, alex, a different question, right? >> there's a huge difference between the two. the one thing that i think it does do if we're looking at this race is it -- this is a great moment for rick santorum. a terrible moment for romney and a very bad moment for the republican party. we talk about the magnetic polls being shifted in this race. they go ever more rightward with these issues being on the top of

the list and rick santorum being a surging candidate right now. it pushes mitt romney into a corner that he is not comfortable being in, that his record is not, you know, his record does not evidence someone that believes in -- >> also, alex, i have to cut you off. he doesn't even speak this language. he doesn't even know -- he's not fluent in this language among other right wing languages. he doesn't know the one about birth control. thank you alex wagner for joining us. please come back as often as you can. come a little earlier next time. >> it is a true pleasure, sir. >> thank you, colleague. up next, did mitt romney's campaign rig the cpac straw poll? did he pack the room? that's the charge from a rival campaign next in the "side show." ♪ we were skipping stones and letting go ♪

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back to "hardball." now for the sideshow.

first up, game over. we know when it comes to super bowl sunday, the commercials can sometimes draw as much attention as the game itself. this year was no exception especially with chrysler's ad. the "halftime in america" ad starring clint eastwood. was halftime a reference to president obama's time in the white house? "saturday night live" had their own follow-up to the much-talked about ad. let's watch. >> during the super bowl, i said it was halftime for america. and tried to make an inspiring ad to rally our country. guess what? halftime is over. we're in the third quarter now, america. we're way behind. so i don't care if obama runs the ball or romney throws a touchdown or ron paul kicks a field goal. i'll tell you right now, though. i ain't putting santorum in the game. what's this commercial for again? all right. chrysler. get a chrysler. and get off my damn lawn. >> the jury is still out on how the ad will influence

presidential politics, but it had us thinking about more than just buying a chrysler. finally, rock the vote? more like rig the vote. last week we found out that cpac organizers were taking steps to avoid the embarrassing outcome of ron paul winning their straw vote yet again this year. was it their strategy of switching from paper to electronic ballots that did the trick? rick santorum was the man of the hour. so why did mitt romney come out on top of the vote? here's what santorum had to say on that one. >> for years, ron paul has won those because he trucks in a lot of people and pays for their ticket. i don't try to rig straw polls. we've heard all sorts of things. >> the romney campaign was bussing students from colleges along the seaboard to show their support. when asked later if the campaign had paid for votes, a spokesman sidestepped the question

choosing instead to take a general swipe at rick santorum's credibility. up next, mitt romney says he was severely conservative as governor of massachusetts. and a lot of people can't figure out what he meant by that phrase. severely. one thing is for sure. this guy has big problems connecting with conservatives or anyone actually. that's giving rick santorum his opening right now. look at the polls we're going to show you. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc.

what a weekend. welcome back to "hardball." mitt romney was able to survive this weekend pulling out wins in the cpca poll here in washington and the low attended maine caucuses. but it's this line from his appearance at cpac on friday which has really caused quite a stir.

>> i fought against long odds in a deep blue state, but i was a severely conservative republican governor. >> well, what exactly is a severely conservative mean? there's more trouble for romney. a new pew poll out this afternoon has rick santorum two points ahead of him in a national poll. 30% to 20% over romney with newt gingrich way behind. romney was leading rick santorum two to one. add to that this afternoon, the editors of the national review are calling on gingrich to get out of the race. quote, when gingrich led santor num the polls he urged him to leave the race. the proper course for him to endorse santorum and exit. joining me now is an expert to talk about this. the latest republican race experts are mitt romney supporter charlie black, a fellow washingtonian and foster friess. foster, do you think it's time

for romney or santorum to quit the race? i'm sorry, romney or -- who are you for? you're for santorum? you want gingrich to quit the race? who do you want to quit the race. the national review says for gingrich to get out because he's going to prevent your candidate from getting the shot he needs. 50/50, one on one. >> i think it would be great if newt stayed in. i love newt. i love mitt. they are wonderful people. national treasures. i think the more we get to know them, it will also hone rick's debating skills and you'll get to know rick santorum better as they challenge him and go after him and you can see the real rick santorum. i think that will be a blessing for everybody. >> so you can beat -- i assume you're saying you have enough surge going right now that you can beat romney even with gingrich in the race? >> well, you maybe saw the michigan poll where they show 39% for santorum and 24% for romney. >> i saw it. we announced it earlier.

but that's before the dresden bombing. i'm going to go to charlie black. when does the bombing commence? i know your candidate has two strategies. don't debate if you don't have to and bring in the bombing control and bomb the heck out of the state and kill the other guy in negative advertising. >> after 18 debates, we love the debates. >> oh, yeah. you're asking for more, aren't you? you have one left i think. >> two debates before the florida primary contributed greatly to mitt romney's victory there. >> so you want more debates? on behalf of the candidate, you're going to ask for more debates? >> so far, they have worked well for mitt romney. there's another one next week. but listen. the great majority of negative ads in this campaign have been run by the superpacs. >> yeah, your guys. >> so candidates can do nothing about it. well, not exactly if you look at the gingrich superpac. you'll find negative ads. >> we did a study in florida. 62% of the ads were negative on gingrich. 1% was positive for your candidate.

even your own candidate wasn't running positives on himself. he was trashing gingrich with his own ads. plus the superpacs. it's not true to say he's running a positive campaign. >> i didn't say that. >> i thought you did. i said the superpacs are running a lot more negative ads. go back and check and see what percentage was run by superpacs. a lot of material on newt gingrich that voters either did not remember or never knew about his record and about his baggage and about the fact he could not win a general election against president obama. so that is fair game in politics. >> you're going to do the same thing in michigan? you're going to do the same thing to santorum in michigan? go ahead, foster. >> i am just eager to see santorum more and more known by the voters. i think he was going out of iowa with press people saying he could be the first time a blue collar candidate was proposed by the republicans.

he spoke to the need of getting these fellows hired back on the small towns where employment has gone away because it's gone to china. because of our high tax rate. so rick's idea to take the tax rate down to zero to these manufacturing workers endears him to these blue collar workers. he's won before. he had a 1 million democratic disadvantage. and at his speech when he talked about his grandfather digging coal until he was 72 and also dug rick santorum's freedom to run for president, i think it's a pretty moving speech. i think people are being captivated by the charisma of rick santorum. >> let's look at what sarah palin said over the weekend. with chris wallace. i thought it was fascinating how she went after romney denying that he makes the grade with her. >> do you trust that mitt romney is an instinctive conservative? >> i trust that his idea of conservatism is evolving. and i base this on a pretty

moderate past that he has had. even in some cases, a liberal past. i am not convinced, and i don't think the majority of gop and independent voters are convinced. that's why you don't see romney get over that hump. >> let's listen to foster. your knee slapper that you delivered at cpac this weekend. it's one of the funnier jokes i've heard in awhile. here you are saying what you think about mitt romney at cpac. >> there's a little bar a couple doors down. recently a conservative, a liberal, and a moderate walked into the bar. the bartender says, hi, mitt. >> what do you think of that, charlie? accused your guy of being three-faced. >> let me tell you some facts. mitt romney's record as governor of massachusetts was conservative. >> severely? >> strictly, which means the same thing as severely. strictly conservative. he inherited a $3 billion

deficit and turned it into a $2 billion surplus without increasing taxes, by cutting spending, vetoing and eliminating a lot of programs. exactly what needs to be done in washington. his record was pro-life and he stood up for traditional marriage when the state supreme court came out against it. that's a better record than rick santorum had in the senate or that newt gingrich had as speaker. >> foster, how do you look at that? charlie is describing mitt romney as a conservative governor. that's not the way you guys describe him, is it? >> i don't want to go too much into mitt romney's varying policies, but i thought it was humorous when huntsman says the guy has no core convictions. and then in two days, endorses him. that's the humor we get in politics. but when mr. black says santorum's record is less than mr. romney's, we have to remind people as a 42-year-old senator,

he managed the welfare reform act on the floor of the senate and was elected third most responsible republican in the republican hierarchy and leadership. and so the people that there are and know him as a person respect his leadership. he championed the line-item veto. championed the balanced budget amendment and had the leadership to take the national security issues to the foreground where he companied the freedom -- the iranian freedom and security act and the syrian accountability act. the nice thing about rick santorum -- >> i respect santorum and i respect mr. friess, but rick santorum is a washington insider. he did spend his adult flf the congress. vote forward earmarks. more spending. he did not bring reforms to the federal government like mitt romney brought to massachusetts. the turnaround of the salt lake city olympics. what mitt romney has done his whole adult life outside of washington is take over big organizations with big problems and fix them and reform them.

that's what the voters want. not another washington insider. >> i'm afraid the campaign coming up on the 28th of this month is going to be another dresden bombing. and i think what your candidate is going to do, charlie is not make that sort of sophisticated case. he's going to do advertising both through his superpac and his own campaign that destroys rick santorum with a heavy bombing raid. heavy bombing raid. >> wait a minute. mr. friess has a superpac too. >> nothing matches the romney campaign. thank you, charlie black. and foster friess. you're very intelligent. come back, please. next we're going to look back on the life of whitney houston who died this weekend. this is "hardball" on msnbc. ♪ and i will always love you

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stay with us. we're coming right back with the sad death of singer whitney houston. that's coming up next here on "hardball."

we're back. the music industry and many fans are still in shock over whitney houston's death on saturday. surprised me. according to the associated press she battled drug addict shun.

they took a poll on her once remarkable voice, largely off the radar in resen years. last night the gram miss, many artists played tribute. >> no way around this, we've had a death in our family. >> when the truly great artists leave us, their legacy lives on. we love whitney houston. >> i want to say to whitney up in heaven, we love you whitney houston. >> the great stevie wonder. kay coins and david, i don't know where to start. tell us what your reaction was how you think all this tragedy fits in or doesn't fit in with her life. i grew up in newark, almost

so many people my family had some acquaintance with members of her family. she was the pride of newark. i grew up in newark during the 80s, was infested with crack and drugs and all sorts of violence. here we had this beautiful young sister who had a voice that was made of crystal. she represented the city. for a young kid growing up in newark, it was symbolic, meant that something beautiful can come from the city and you can make it out of the city and be great. so that is what she represented to us. she was, you know, just a bigger than life star for us. >> how old was she when she became a celebrity, a star as a singer? >> she was pretty young. she, when she -- her big video everyone remembers, "the greatest love of all" she was particularly young. one thing very significant about her, she came during the beginning of the mtv era, why she was so big because her voice

was only matched by her beauty, her physical beauty. >> that is so much the truth about the industry, once it went visual, you got to know the people. i grew up in the 60s, looks weren't important but they became important. over to kate, we knew her problems with bobby brown, didn't know it all, but dying, it blew us away she's dead. >> absolutely. no matter what people knew of the problems, the struggles with bobby brown and struggles she had that had nothing to do with bobby brown and existed long after the marriage ended, you just did not expect this. you didn't see this coming. there was perpetual hope she was always going to able to turn it around you always felt at some point the real come-back would occur, the prime whitney who everybody loved from that decade

from '85 to '59 would come back. there was hope it would happen. >> i loved "the body guard" and "the preacher's wife" the thing about the way they go. i was thinking of janis joplin, when they die we realize how badly they lived. >> but also now more recent phenomenon only when they die we understand serious prescription drugs are, not saying they played a role in her actual death, the drug abuse stories we're used to from years past >> goes back to judy garland. >> britney murphy, amy winehouse, not heroin, not cocaine, but valium, xanax,

ambien, claiming lives. >> vip drugs. do you know anything about that, david? we don't know i was watching assistant chief coroner, very good guy seems like, he's not ready to say anything as of tonight. it does seem like this story of joplin and hendrix and morrison, what a pattern. >> it's tough to talk about after someone passes but i think we have to remember inasmuch as her voice was an inspiration, her life should be a cautionary tale to folks who want to get in the business and advance in life, that drug addiction if it doesn't kill you, it can kill your talent. so i think that is very important for us to reflect it's uncomfortable to talk about but a teachable moment for people who looked up to her. >> take the fantasy as it comes. kate coin, david, thank you for coming on.

here is one of whitney houston's iconic moments when she sang the national anthem at the super bowl in 1991. ♪ for the land of the free and the home of the brave ♪ [ male announcer ] we put a week's worth of bad odors in a home. some aerosols may just mix with them. can febreze really remove it. we asked real people what they thought. [ moderator ] take a deep breath for me. describe the smell. it's very pleasant. fresh. some kind of flower maybe? [ moderator ] remove the blindfold... awww, oh yuck!

i didn't smell any of that! [ male announcer ] febreze air effects doesn't mix, it actually removes odors. [ laughs ] wow, that's incredible. [ male announcer ] so you can breathe happy. guaranteed.

let me finish tonight with this, president obama has two jobs on his hands right now. lucky for him historically he tends to be lucky, they work in tandem. job one, get people back to work. he can use the government, he's doing that with american jobs bill been pushing since last september. he can do it by encouraging business to hire people, he has been doing that for cutting the payroll tax rate.

increasing consumer confidence, he's getting that job done by cutting the jobless rate. good economic news leads to good economic news. the more they buy, the better for the economy. today he put out a budget that continues doing what he's doing, creating jobs, half a trillion dollars a highways and rail. investments to get people where they have to get, to do business and spend money, creates lots of good high paying jobs getting the roads built and fixed and rails laid. the republican opposition has its own goals. does the republican philosophy of lower deficits coincide with the ambition to keep obama from a second term? as sarah palin might put it you betcha if they can cut off the growth in job they can bring about the defeat of their opponent, barack obama. it's clear the politics and