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candidates muslim groups. jeff greenfield, author of "then everything changed stunning alternate histories of american politics." host of "need to know." heather mcghee. christian otter and sam seeder, host of radio show majority report live daily at majority.mn and co-host of "ring of fire." also, i will say that the pioneer of the sweater vest which has now absolutely colonized the nation. >> that's right. now -- >> and now you are turning away. you are too cool for it. >> ruined it. exactly. same thing happened. >> you don't wear tonight the spring. >> no, it got ruined. once it gets too mainstream forget it. >> rick santorum and foster freese. multimillionaire backer of the super pac associated with rick santorum also likes to -- >> if he is willing to make me the way he's backing -- i will

reconsider. >> since we are talking about rick santorum, i thought we would stay on the topic we played this bitter of sound yesterday that was uncovered by people for the american way. and it was rick santorum speaking to ave maria college. let's play that sound first just so people can hear what we thought was the most jaw-dropping moment in a speech that was quite a remarkable speech overall. here he is speaking in 2008. >> we all know that this country was founded on a judeo-christian ethic but the judeo-christian ethic was a protestant judeo-christian ethic. sure the catholics had some influence. mainstream, main line protestants and, of course, we look at the shape of main line protestants in this country and it is in shambles. it is gone from the world of christianity, as i see it. >> gone from the world of

christianity as i see it. that's -- that is excommunicating millions of americans. i mean, lutherans, i mean, all the main line non-ivevangelical protestant -- you are shaking your head. >> i don't think he wasex excommunicating as much as talking about the weakening of the faith. you know, both the weakening of political influence and the weakening of the importance of religion for main line protestants who consider themself to be protestant but aren't putting religion at the center of their lives the way someone like rick santorum does. >> i think you can say the same thing about a lot of catholics, too. in terms of straying. i think he is making a broader theological argument as to what he perceives christianity should be and when you juxtapose that to his comments about president obama and being certainly a stripe of christianity, it

really puts the question as to what he -- how -- the sort of what he thinks there. but i think it is even more amazing how. religion is simply playing a part in this presidential election. it doesn't -- it doesn't seem to end. and -- >> elaborate on that. i think there has been some contestation about how religion would play a role. mitt romney had to give a version of the famous jfk speech in 1960. jfk was in houston and -- went to houston and told -- you know, basically said the pope isn't going to tell what you to do. i will be president of the united states. just as i'm a catholic. mitt romney gave a version of that in 2008. the inverse of the jfk speech where he said don't worry, i am as much as a theocrat as all of you. i'm a christian, too. my christian values -- it hasn't surfaced as text in this campaign but i think it has been

there as subtext. >> what i think -- santorum was echoing was a very strong line among particularly evangelicals ever since really the '60s. from their point of view main line churches and body of the national council went left. they went left politically and they went left thee logically. and what really brought the evangelicals into the arena, there was a time the evangelicals were saying stay out, render on cease sxar god. and after the school library cases and bible reading cases, you had people saying you are banishing god from the public square. to use a phrase richard john w newhaas began to embrace. that i think in a very awkward and clumsy way, i might add, is what i think santorum was getting at there. and you know, from the perspective of your audience this may seem somewhere between weird and insane.

there is a very strong strain of argument thee logically within the war of conservative protestant denominations main line protestant went off the rails. that's what i think he got at. >> and they have become less religious in a way. not believing in some of the central tenants of faith. creating a religion where in a way you could sort of have secular scientific values but be part of the religious culture. >> i think one of the -- one of the subtexts here in terms of the development of the -- of the politics and christianity in american life is the ways in which the sort of common cause made between evangelicals and conservative catholics against these kind of secularizing or liberalizing tendencies so, you know, we will disagree and agree. what we agree on gay marriage, on issue having to do with women's reproductive choices, et cetera. >> which is why the analysis of santorum may have a problem in the south is off base. that would have been true in 1928. and it would have been true in 1960 when we did have the pep of

roemt as the -- pope of rome as the antichrist. >> you saw out of that group that met after iowa when they had to coalesce around a real conservative to be -- beat mitt romney, rick santorum was the choice. it seems to have sort of gained traction almost since south carolina but the amazing thing is that -- you know, the argument that he may be making may not be so radical in the context of theological battles amongst the sort of -- orthodoxy in religions. the guy is running for president. and the -- the idea that we have -- candidates on the -- i'm not convinced that -- this is just the beginning. i think of this debate we are going to hear from the republicans. you have to remember, you know, rick perry, he tried. we can't pray in schools. i mean, this is pretty aggressive, i think, relative to like when you think back to what

george bush even ran on, the -- the -- it is creeping up through the subtext. >> speaking of aggressiveness, santorum is now getting a lot of play today for comments he made yesterday in ohio. at a meeting of a christian group there. and here he is talking about barack obama's theology that he is employing. >> this is what the president's agenda -- it is not about you. it is not about you. it is not about your quality of life. it is not about your jobs. it is about some phony ideal. some phony theology. not a theology based on the bible. different theology. no less a theology. >> this is the argument on sort of -- you hear this often in reporting when -- talk to conservative christians about how secularism is its own religion. that any -- you are just replacing god with some other god. you know, progress, government.

>> science. >> exactly. what's interesting to me here is santorum seems to be really leaning into that aspect of his personality which is, of course, what made him who he was and what it was -- it was his defining feature, i would say. >> what is your -- i think you are absolutely right. what you are hearing -- people always say they want authenticity in a politician. >> that was not faking. >> yeah. that is authenticity. it is also the reason why a lot of politicians aren't authentic. >> right. >> because it raises very serious problems. i mean, the -- however much you can be similympathetic or not te argument from -- of conservatives, banishing the public square, secularism, this kind of argument, i mean, to say that what obama doing is not wrong-headed or dangerous, but is a theological -- theology, when you link it to what he said a while ago but ultimately this becomes a french revolution leads us to the guillotine, now you are -- now you are in the red zone. and i don't mean that in

football. now you are really off the charts in terms of how you argue in a broad, you know, pluralistic country. that's his problem. his authenticity is -- you know, look, people used to say -- at least he says what he believes. you know what, some things people believe are -- >> best left unsaid. >> there is another -- also, in the red zone insofar is this is what it probably going to take if he will win the republican nomination. i mean, that is -- i mean, that's really dynamic. >> want him to be in the red zone? >> no. i think from the obama administration's perspective, yes. they would love rick santorum to continue in this way and that's -- that's the problem the republicans have this whole year is that they are not speaking to the american public. >> yeah. more on rick santorum and mitt romney and after that, the one and only great wall of shock. stick around. fruit. which provided for their every financial need.

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all right. rick santorum religion and politics. the -- topic we never seem to escape in some ways. although one of the -- most interesting subtexts to the republican primary in some ways has been -- we have talked about this a little bit on the show, mitch daniels is the governor of indiana, had this line in a -- review of him in the weekly standard where he talked about social issues truce. get along for a while. i remember talking to an organizer for -- freedom work saying he was going around tea parties and trying to gently nudge the organizers away from cultural issues, away from social issues, towards deficit in the economy because they felt like this is where it was strongest. i think it is fair to say in the national political conversation the last two weeks, birth control, particularly sort of on the front burner, and i wonder how much that is intentional, how much is it the fact just when the job numbers look like they are getting really good,

just when the economic recovery actually looks to be kicking in, suddenly there is a flurry of cultural war -- skeptical. >> i don't -- you have to say that was obama's intention. because one of the people -- who -- one of the reasons this is a front burner is the obama administration instead of kicking the can down the road on what you will require out of the health care plan said no, if you are a religious institution, other than a church, you have to pay. >> right. >> now, i rather doubt that it was the obama administration's intention to reignite the culture issue. but that's where i put the -- >> intention to implement the health care law and to show people that, in fact, there should be a minimum standard of what qualifies as a good health care plan and that -- the number one prescription in women's lives should be that. so the fact that it also had to -- >> you are saying number one prescription in women's lives, what if you look at the data, what the most common -- not saying that should be the number one prescription. >> no, no, no. >> exactly. that -- that should be part of a

standard health care plan. the fact that it also had -- they had to say what employer it applied to, i mean, the idea this was really -- oriented towards religious employers, exclusively, the way that, you know, it had become a catch phrase for what the obama administration is trying to say and do to kath sxliks stuff like that, it is not what it is about. it is about the fact he has to start showing that the health care law has a benefit to real americans. >> i meant that it was not a deliberate attempt from the right -- >> from the right to reignite. >> it i think the catholic church -- >> that was a deliberate attempt to pick that fight. >> they have to show, also, their own members that there is something more than the scandals of the past few years. >> right. >> past decade. >> isn't this actually good for the democrats? i mean, you know -- >> yes. >> you were suggesting, chris, is it an accident that the time the economy is getting better, you know, maybe the republicans are moving culture wars back to the front burner. if so i think they are making a

huge mistake. especially this form of culture work. i mean, it is 2012 and we are actually debating contraception? contraception? it is actually insane that there should even be discussions about whether -- it is not even abortion, you know. i am very much on abortion should be safe, legal and rare. but we are not even talking about abortion. we are just talking about the birth control pill. >> you know, but i think that's -- that gets back to that -- original -- my original point before was that there are two separate audiences that are being played here. i think it was perfectly -- catholic church jumped on this and santorum jumped on this. and -- i think that once the obama administration realized that they were -- i don't think they anticipated this but i think they hardened a little bit when they realized like this -- we are on the right side of this argument. i think that -- that's what the problem the republicans have now that i think is a huge gift from the obama administration's perspective or campaign, i

should say. is that -- the race is moving to the right. they are getting -- they are playing completely not just in sort of traditional republican territory. they are playing in movement conservative territory and which is completely divorced from mainstream america. >> mitt romney, of course, has the problem which is he's -- he's completely constructed a campaign around the singular issue of jobs and economic recovery, he's going to be able to deliver where the president failed and if we have sustained months of genuine job growth, if we have a -- economy that looks like it is recovering, there is no argue p left important the romney campaign. santorum has made that argument. i mean, is an tore sum coming in to say we have to offer something bigger than i'm going to pump us up to 250,000 jobs a month. >> it is not just the culture wars. this is the fundamental problem that's plagued mitt romney really for six years. which is he can't run as who he is. who he is based on his public record is a -- pragmatic

centrist governor who -- worked pretty well with a democratic legislature. and shunned, you know, kind of the extremes. he couldn't run that way in 2008 and he can't run that way in 2012. so he has to have this other persona which has nothing to do with who he is and it is why whenever he talks this way he is like the guy who learned to dance at arthur murray's dance studio. you see him counting. this right. someone with a genuine set of beliefs, whether you think they are off the charts or not, is comfortable in his or her own. they know what they believe. >> i have a problem for mitt romney. authenticity point is right. the other problem is i think he is authentically very religious and, you know, you see his -- facts of his biography to show him to be a very committed person of faith for who his faith has been central to his life and in -- in ways that are really admirable. and doing community service and -- all that stuff.

but he can't talk about that because -- or he has chosen to. maybe -- maybe people would like romney more if he told us about his mormonism and commitment to it. but he decided that that is a no go zone. >> right. get back to what jeff's point is, best argument for mitt romney is i'm a highly competent technocratic manager. nonlt is there a problem with that in terms of political -- it is a bloodless vision. it is not who -- it is a tote lynn inspiring -- >> i think that message could have worked in the general election. but the point is he's had the tact so far to get through this primary and i think much more so than he thought. last august, i think he had that -- that ad about -- president obama saying that the unemployed were just a bump in the road. and at that time, that would -- that message was resonating and i think there was a combination of things president obama in -- labor day starting to have more populist rhetoric.

on the right he got challenged in a right that forced him to move to the right. even if he was able to go back to the technocrat he still has the best -- of the primary in all of the things he had to move to the right to sort of apiece them and it is going to be a problem for him. >> it is not just now thanks to -- thanks to newt gingrich, not just now he is a technocrat and manager of any kind of american business. he's mr. 1%. he is a wall streeter and is a -- you know, not just a wall streeter but a wall streeter of a certain mode that would say yes, we want t.a.r.p., no we don't want a detroit auto bailout. yes, between want to make sure that the -- capital gains tax is still as low as possible. no, we don't want the payroll tax cut extension. i mean, it is really -- i don't think that that even -- i'm a good business person is now -- it is not neutral anymore. right? now it has real values behind it. >> remarkable how effective even in a republic primary, all the

polling we have seen about favor built and is port among people who rik not -- affluent in republican primaries as amazing how effective that line of attack which i think there is a lot of question in south carolina when all the bain attacks were rolled out, are you doing this in the wrong primary? is this going to resonate with republican voters? >> the tea party hates wall street big shots almost as much as they hate government bureaucrats. then in south carolina, we saw particularly the inheritance of the old pop liulism. it resonates even among tea party members and fact that mitt romney often puts himself in a position if i may date myself of beinghowell iii of "gilligan's island." roosevelt and kennedys -- >> he is concerned about the poor. >> that's the arthur murray

dance step. >> i think your point about dating yourself is non-trivial here. the reason it was easier for george romney to be connected with the middle class and poor is the gap was smaller. you know. mitt romney -- the reason that -- >> that's a great point. >> a mr. 1%, it is not just -- >> george romney has a sort of avatar of the great depression. >> time when the gap between the ceo and worker was much, much smaller. >> the political economy was very different. we will take a look at the things george romney had to say and talk about the legacy of george romney in detroit and michigan primary after this. i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing.

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41% to 33%. romney trails santorum in michigan, santorum at 41%. romney at 33%. romney is positioning himself ast in michigan as favorite son candidate. the two headlines to help the story of why rom my struggling in the state. first, from an article written by mitt romney in november of 2008 titled "let detroit go bankrupt" the second from earlier this week announcing gm earned its highest profit ever, $7.6 billion in 2011. there is such a rich narrative subtext to the primary, i think, between the kind of generational difference between mitt romney and his father, george romney. the fact that his father made his money at the time that the auto industry was cresting. the fact that the son made his money in exactly the kind of business that remade the old main line industrial businesses of america and in some ways unmade them, september them

overseas. the fact that he's now returning to that state and needing to win and the fact that his father was an "avatar" of moderate republicanism at the high watermark. the fact that his father learned he learned the lesson as a son that standing on principle would get your butt kicked. and that he's now coming back to michigan doing the sort of counting up the dance steps, mouthing them to try to be something we all sort of transparently see that he's not and that is the thing that's hurting him politically. it is a very, very rich kind of setup for what's going to happen in michigan. >> i would dissent from you on one point when romney ran for president in '64 that was not the high watermark of -- >> the beginning of the end. that's right. just before the crash. >> you had three success -- romney, we know this from history, john kennedy feared rornlg george romney in 1964 as the most powerful -- >> absolutely. terrified of him.

>> and made sense given who had won in the past. conservatives never put conservative republican on the ticket. '64, goldwater. goldwater would have been written out of the party ten years later for being pro-choice. reagan would have been written out of the party -- >> tax raises. >> and -- we are now at a point the third successive way put romney in the position -- >> here's george romney refusing to endorse goldwater in 1984. when you go back, people should not be held accountable for what their parents' views are and -- >> thank goodness. >> i mean, i'm not trying -- i guess i'm not trying to play gotcha but to show as these -- these two generations as totems, markers of where the party is, this is george -- george romney refuse toning dors gold water in 1964. dogmatic ideological parties tend to splinter the political and social fabric of a nation lead to governmental crises and deadlocks and stymie the compromises so often necessary to preserve freedom and achieve

progress. here's another quote. this is from gerald ford. he's nominating george romney from the floor of the gop convention ask this is gerald ford speaking about why george romney is such a great figure. he says he has never let the temporary glitter of expediency obscure the path which is inegg integrity dictated. it is in every way the converse of the image that mitt romney now has. >> why. one wonders how much it impacts romney on the campaign trail because these -- these narratives are getting out there. this notion that his father was so -- not just moderate but like you say, so principled, whether it was about desegregation and being told by the church. leaders back off this -- >> mormon reprimanded him for his outspoken -- >> then he goes on to the streets in detroit and marching with civil rights protesters. and so -- you know, i don't know

how it works in somebody's head like that. we all may be -- many men suffer from many issues with their dad. i mean -- hi, dad. but it is fascinating to watch. it is sort of -- there is some sort of poetry involved going back to michigan. if he doesn't get through michigan the had is when i start to hear unnamed senators saying this guy shouldn't be our nominee. >> this could be a real turning point. >> but more than psychological aspect there is the aspect of the way the republican parties move. there's also the aspect of the way american political economy has moved. that to me is what's so fascinating. what we have seen is the decline of america's manufacturing base and the rise of financialization. and that is, you know, george romney was at -- ran a motor company, mitt romney ran the financialization wing of, you know, private equity firm and he is now going back to try to sort of sell himself as a son of detroit and people are not stupid. they understand what has happened to that part of the country but -- in -- in getting locked into the jaws of financialization. >> by the way, also the decline,

it is not just the decline of detroit. the decline of an american upper class and american elite that has roots to anywhere. so something that's quite interesting -- >> you wrote a book on this topic. >> i just finished it. something interesting about mitt romney he does not live anywhere. his dad -- >> great point. >> his dad lived in michigan. and that was where his business was and it is where his life was. someone like mitt romney, he has houses all over the place. and his business requires him -- it requires him not really to have roots in any particular community. i think that voters sense that and -- i'm not -- >> that's a fantastic point. >> i think that people say wait a minute, actually -- my life isn't a portfolio investment. and i'm kind of scared of a guy whose paradigm is that. >> what's fascinating, he tries to use this ruthless cosmo polltism in every state in which he has plausible claim to home

stateness. new hampshire is a home state. now he has -- driving around detroit saying i'm -- >> he doesn't live anywhere. >> you can see how it is connected to taxes. here is how. george romney -- >> walk me through it. >> this is going to work. george romney, one of the most famous things he did to really show that he was a moderate republican was he -- led the change to the state constitution to raise an income tax in michigan to fund detroit's schools. >> wow. >> you do that and you -- you want taxes for your community when you feel like it is your community. >> that's a great point. >> so -- the -- you can't have a desire to fund your community's future, desire to fund your neighbors, when you don't have a sense of the neighborhood. and that's why you can see someone like -- mitt romney in a lot of his peers really feeling like -- quote, i don't want to put, you know, my money in that deficit sinkhole the american budget. >> contrast you raised earlier when you look at who the -- who

the -- the "avatar"s are to that republican party was a couple of generations were, almost all lost, almost came from the elite institutions, harvard, yale. guy was two last names. president of yale. the notion of steward ship was driven into them from literally the time they went to the elite boarding schools. george h.w. bush and his father prescott bush. another guy with two last names. i make that point because my people have two first names. the point being that these folks carry with them the notion that no, we are privileged, therefore, we must make these communities work better. and when you put all of that together, the -- relative difference, small difference weinricher and poor, you lead to a totally different republican party. >> we are hearing an -- the demise of the wasp establishments, surprisingly here.

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♪ what did you do ♪ what did you say ♪ did you walk or run away ♪ where are you now >> wallace sean is, in my humble opinion, one of the greatest play rights of all time. he has written more than a dozen plays, appeared in more than 70 films, "my dinner with andre," he co-wrote with andre gregory. monologues play and force us out of the comfort of the perspective and make us re-see the world. "essays" is out in paperback. "why i call myself a socialist." he writes -- the global market selects out a tiny group of privileged babies who are born in certain parts offer is towns and certain countries and these babies are allowed to live privileged lives. as for all the other babies, the market sorts them and stamp labels them on to them and hurls them violently into various pits

where an appropriate upbringing and preparation are waiting for them. you don't hear that on sunday talk shows much. welcome. thanks for come. >> great to see. >> did you i love the essay and i -- so i want you to read from a play you wrote called "the fever." you wrote around 1990. it is a monologue. tell us a little bit about what the play -- what the setting of the play is because it is -- it is a really wonderful work and i think that the dashes aechoes some of the themes in "the fever." >> okay so -- basically it is about a traveler who gets sick one night in a poor country. and -- because he's sick, he has some thoughts he wouldn't have had if he was well. and -- you know, it changes from minute to minute. so -- it all takes place in his head. >> his relative privilege and

deprivation of the people around him and juxtaposition of those two things. >> he becomes obsessed with it in the course of this one night and has strange thoughts about himself. >> would you give as you little bit? do you mind? >> it is a great honor. great. except that it makes no sense except if you see the full play. >> and you -- you performed this last weekend, am i correct, in new york city? >> i did. as a benefit for haymarket books. >> great. give us a little bit. >> okay. it is birthday party in the fansyi restaurant. yes. there's the table with its sweet and pretty decorations, fanciful centerpiece, pink and green and there are all the women in bright red lipstick and the men, beautiful shirts and all the gifts, outrageous, unexpected,

funny gifts. and there are the waiters serving salmon and pouring the wine. there i am and talking quietly with that small pale woman in the dresd about the love affair with the older man, the criminals, the psychiatrist the film that disturbed her and the actress. about the walks at night through the woods in the country. insatiable appetite for violent sex. the suffering of the people who live in desperation in the crowded shelter across the street from the fancy restaurant. and as i talked with that woman in the red and blue dress, i thought that i was a person who was thinking about a party. who had so many complicated feelings about it. who would like -- like some aspects of the party but not others. who liked some of the people but not all of them. who like the pink and green

centerpiece but didn't really like that red and blue dress. but now i see it so clearly. i see myself with my little fork. i wasn't a person who was thinking about a party. i was a person who was at a party. who sat at the table, drink the wine, and ate the fish. >> wallace shawn. the play and the essay both are meditations, i think, on privilege and relative privilege. i wanted to know why this is something that so seems to preoccupy you in the work that you do. >> you know, i grew up in a privileged background. by the way, i think you introduced me as a wasp. but i'm jewish. >> yes, yes. >> so -- you know -- >> i was wrong. i said sort of -- as i realized that --

>> well fit that in. i was raised as an atheist but and i -- i'm still an atheist. but that's my background. >> two last names, though. >> that's right. that's probably why. we will have more with wallace shawn after we take this break. but my smile wasn't. [ female announcer ] new crest 3d white intensive professional effects whitestrips. it goes below the enamel surface to whiten as well as a five-hundred dollar professional treatment for a transformation that's hard to believe. ♪ wow, that's you? [ female announcer ] new intensive professional effects whitestrips. and try 3d white toothpaste and rinse. from crest. life opens up when you do.

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we will have more with wallace

you wrote this play "fever" at a time right after the collapse of the fall of the berlin wall and the collapse of communism. there's some pockets and hold-outs. the play is -- sort of reconciles itself with how to think about equality after the -- end of communism. and i wonder how you see the political context of the play in 1990 wrestling with the question of the vastness of inequality that stretches the globe in 1990 and today in 2012 how that political context changed. >> well, i had an interesting

experience of doing the play in poland for a bunch of, you could say, polish intellectuals around 1993. and the -- play basically -- the character in the play actually is given a copy of karl marx's capital. it has friendly comments about karl marx. and the polish intellectuals said well, if you had done this play five years ago, we would have killed you. because of our hatred of communism. now that we had three years of capitalism, we rather enjoyed your play. so now just as in the real

world, the conditions of industrial exploitation described by marx are in england are re-created on the global scale and people all over the world are working in factory conditions that are just the ones that marx described in 19 century england. similarly, you know, people are more prepared in a way to listen to arguments about the crimes of capitalism today than ever before. >> do you think that's true? >> i was going to share -- i can't resist sharing with you a russian joke because i lived in the former soviet union in most of the '90s. one of their favorite jokes was around -- around '1992 to '94

everything marx told bus communism was false. everything he told us about capitalism is turning out to be true. but i think that this is the core of it. right? that -- you know, it didn't work and it was a terrible system economically and also politically. right? let's not forget. but capitalism is causing problems, a lot of problems, too p. the only thing i say about the conditions of the industrial revolution being exported to safe places like china which is true is that tin does treeal revolution worked. it was actually a really terrific thing. and it is working in china and india as well. now the way it works is brutal and horrible but it is also true that hundreds of millions of chinese people have been lifted out of absolute poverty. so it is -- a contradictory process. >> i would think there is another -- adding to what my call of confusion or the -- search for some kind of way to

make this work. you look at the conditions you described. then you look at greece which is the -- piece in the "new york times" magazine today about the -- what's happening in greece. incredible decline, incredible rise in suicides. basically rooted in the fact that they borrowed too much money and lived too well without -- which is not a failure of capitalism. it is a failure of something else. you look at, for instance, one country in europe that seems to be relatively healthiest and it is germany which is a weird mix of capitalism but then a very strong safety net, very highly paid organized labor. >> labor union members encore zblorts yes. but then to be -- you look at what's happened in the united states with public unions where you have tree people like rahm emanuel, mayor of chicago. andrew cuomo, governor of new york. jerry brown, governor of california. saying all to the this is unsustainable. so when -- the point is whatever -- whatever model you have in your head about the way things work, there are real problems with. >> you wouldn't respond to the

point the public unions we got from the fever of communism in three minutes? we will take a break and let you respond. i know you're gonna love. [ barks ] yes, it's beneful healthy fiesta. made with wholesome grains, real chicken, even accents of tomato and avocado. yeah! come on! [ barking ] gotta love the protein for muscles-- whoo-hoo! and omega-rich nutrition for that shiny coat. ever think healthy could taste so good? [ woman announcing ] beneful healthy fiesta. another healthful, flavorful beneful. ♪ feel the power my young friend. mmm! [ male announcer ] for excellent fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion, also refreshing plus tea. could've had a v8.

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just to quickly recap, fall of the berlin wall. the second industrial revolution, globe am capitalism, exporting of the -- or working conditions similar to like those found in the 19th century to today's countries like china where -- the where things are made. and the theme of what -- how we are reckoning with the vision of global capitalism we now find ourselves with and the fact that it connects us and i think this is a key thing, it connects us with everything that we own. i mean, i don't know where this pen was made. but i -- thompson reuters pen but i assume it was probably made in china. i think we assume that about many of the things we have. global supply chain connects us through the items every single

item in our life, everything we touch as we move through the world connects us with a chain of stories of other human beings around the other side of it who are absolutely invisible to us, completely invisible to us, and who -- live lives that can be quite difficult and whether in long run that's the best thing for raising living standards or not and whether there there is a pathetic gap, a perceptual gap of where we stand and where we do. i feel like that's part of what your work has been trying to address. >> well, lot of fever and lot of what i have written is -- connecting the american and western attempt to keep the world the way it is through violence to -- you and me and -- in other words, the system that we have is actually not

necessarily pleasing to the people who are on the bottom of it and they might very well change it if they weren't crushed by the threat of force. you could call it revolution. you could call it -- you know, change of any kind but most people who are being squashed actually don't like it and they are kept in their positions by the fear that they will be killed orator toured. and we are the beneficiaries of that, whether we have liberal opinions or reactionary opinions. we are enjoying a privileged life because of the fact that the world is the way it is. and maybe in 100 years china will be more prosperous because

of the exploitation of workers today. i really don't know. but we are -- having a good time today because of it. >> because the causal link between what's happening in china, jeff greenfield, you are skeptical. i want to hear your response after we come back. er online was unbelievable. what a bargain! [ female announcer ] sometimes a good deal turns out to be not such a good deal. but new bounty gives you value you can see. in this lab demo, one sheet of new bounty leaves this surface cleaner than two sheets of the leading ordinary brand. so you can clean this mess with half as many sheets. bounty has trap and lock technology to soak up big spills and lock them in. why use more when you can use less? bring it with new bounty. spark card from capital one. spark cash gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. it's hard for my crew to keep up with 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. 2% cash back. that's setting the bar pretty high. thanks to spark, owning my own business

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why do we always have to take your mom's car? [ male announcer ] the security of a tiguan, one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty ♪ hello from new york. i'm chris hayes. with me, jeff greenfield, host of pbs' "need to know." heather mcghee. and wallace shawn, playwright and actor. i want to play a great clip that we found of -- guest appearance you have on "murphy brown." years ago. which we were all reminding ourselves was quite a good show. this is a clip from the 1990s. you play a conservative congressman, republican, who is

a sort of prototype tea party republican who has been elected with the backing of interests that have very extreme views. now has been told that he has to go on air and parrot those views. take a look. >> when i was elected i didn't realize i might be a little bit beholden to certain interest groups. i thought that just people gave me money because they like me. today they gave me a position paper and made it clear they are expecting a pretty big return on their investment. a person caucasian should take an iq test to determine if they should stay in this great country of ours. >> you are proposing we expel ethnic minorities? >> i guess i am. >> all ethnic minorities? >> apparently so. >> wallace shawn at the table. i wonder how much -- jeff as

shone who has been observing politics for a while the connection between the pole orization you can see and the way that campaigns are financed, how much connection there is between those two. i think there's part of us thinks there is a phenomenon and part of sit special interests as the quote phrase we use. >> i lean more to the first and the second. i think that this -- because i think this goes back several decades. it is one of the more startling facts about politics that in 1976, a quarter of self-identified conservatives voted for jimmy carter and quarter of self-identified liberals voted for gerald ford which tells you something about where we have come since then. now, i do think one of the analysis that comes largely from the left is right. that is -- is correct. sorry. and that is that economic interests will look at culturally driven politics and say ah, if we help support those folks, when they get to the congress, they will vote for our agenda. i think we have seen that happen. but i think it is a big mistake

to sort of look at the coke brothers or george soros on the left and say this is all astroturf. this is nothing real. the tea party is real. the fact that dick armey and freedom works and the coke brothers will back their candidates is important politically, but it does than mean that this was a creation, you know, like in some hollywood movie where a group of lex luther, let's say, his pals, have determined to elect him. >> do you agree with that? >> i agree with the end of it. i think -- in terms of what really matters for the outcomes of decisions that happen in washington, it really is a function of where the money is going and to whom. and -- i mean, for example, tea party, which absolutely, you know, was -- came out of an ager about the bailouts as well as, you know, about government spending and deficits, but really is if you look at what tea party followers support there really -- they are opposed to sort of, you know, wall street as this sort of symbol of

something. then you have the 2010 election and the first thing these new tea party house republicans did was issue all of these bills to deregulate wall street. and most of their funding came or a good part of their funding came from wall street and it was just a clear payback. so the disconnect between what the american people who may go with whatever political movement or another had given time and what the elected officials who are in a very different transactional relationship that i do think change it is policy outcomes. >> fair enough. >> i think that's exactly right. the promise this stuff is really complicated. we can talk about basil 3 if you want but i imagine chris will turn off the cameras. but it is very, very important to those vested interests. so you can have like a tea party rage but then when you are elected, you do have money interest and it is okay to be a money interest but -- you have a very specific sxint that interest is not the common good.

>> it is why -- if i can -- it is why one of the -- i think probably almost too late now, one of the santorum moves that i have been expecting which mike huckabee -- was to lead the conservatives with an -- not just an anger at wall street but with a sense that the policies have to rein in successes of capital. right pop poli i think if santorum were to stop, you know, offering his theological sxrus start saying what specifically he might do about the income and the -- wealth and equality gap, whether he really has an idea to put manufacturing -- >> what's so interesting, i think that -- if you want to run on that ticket i think have a very good -- of being elected. i think the difficulty for the republican party now for santorum in particular is he actually doesn't believe in

government. he doesn't believe income public skills. i interviewed foster freese, one of his big money guys. and it was astonishing to talk to him. he actually said -- this is on video. he's not being misquoted. he said, you know, he doesn't really like taxes. what he likes is the self-tax. and that we underestimated the amount of self-taxation that rich people do. and as an example, he cited a friend in arizona who spent $200 million building a music museum. so -- you know, if you live in a world of the self-taxi think it is going to -- self-tax, i thin going to be hard to address the rage of the -- >> i think -- >> blue collar worker. >> lot of republicans out there or independents who can vote republican in these primaries who might be very responsiblie . i -- responsive. >> the problem, of course, is people end up squeezed as the

congressman played by shawn in that clip, get squeezed by donors and voters. what might be politically palatable ends up pushing you up against the interests of the people that are funding you. there is a degree to which all of that stuff gets circumscribed. you can say i'm going on the campaign trail ask that's forgotten. there is a space you have to squeeze true, what the voters want on one side, which is higher taxes for the wealthy, robustly over pole over pole is not what the donor class wants. you have to sort of manage to get yourself through the eye of that needle if you want to get -- >> donor class is winning. what's astonishing of the american politics now is even as you have the middle class you have rising inequality as jeff was saying, you know, very eloquently, had you the entire u.s. political spectrum shift to the right. >> lower and lower taxes. wallace sean, book out in paper book "essays." thank you for coming on this morning. really, really appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> we will be right back. bored with your one trick lipstick?

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♪ joining us is alexis goldstein, former wall street executive. now part of the occupy sec movement which is an awesome way to introduce anyone. so alexis, your group did something that was my favorite news story of the week. and to explain to folks at home why it was my favorite story, it will take a little bit. stay with me. but this is probably, i think the most important comment on a proposed regulatory rule i have ever seen. at the heart of where we are going as a country, as a heart of the future of the american political economy and the american finance system, is the question of whether we will regulate wall street in the wake of the crash? there was a piece of legislation

that dodd/frank bill passed that was intended to regulate wall street. and to -- sit way back to the new deal, little bit of history, of how we got to where we are today and where we are going. during the new deal a very piece of legislation was passed called glass seagal. he had a simple idea. you could be a commercial bank which is bank that takes did he possible its and lends out money to small businesses and does all the things that your local bank does or you could be an investment bank which as you could go play on wall street and make lots of investments and do lots of trades. you could not be both. this piece of legislation created the regulatory landscape that gave us essentially 40, 50 years without a single financial crisis. it was an unprecedented achievement in the history of capitalism in this country. the country had been beset by routine financial crises for years after years after years and in fact, if you look at -- just a chart of bank failures you can see this amazing period that happens between the 1940s

and 1980s when we start deregulating again. that valley there is the part of america, history of american finance and history of american capitalism that was the most stable period we have ever been through. then we started to chip away. and we started to chip away at deregulation that started with the savings and loan crisis which gave you a huge bum in the '80s and '90s and then all the way towards the end of the chart you see in '08 and '10 banks starting to fail. those numbers would be much, much, much, much higher if not for, of course, the bailout. part of the story here is that the amazing piece of legislation that kept the financial industry stable for all those years was repealed. at the end of clinton's term. when that was repealed here is what byron dougherty, democratic senator, took to the flooring to predict about what the repeal of that bill would mean. >> 10, 15 years from now we will

be back thinking of this bill like we thought of the bill passed in the late 1970s and early 1980s in which this congress unhitched the savings and loans so some sleepy texas institution can gather deposits from all around america and like -- a giant rocket, become a huge enterprise of guess what, with all the speculation and the s&ls and everything that went with it, what did it cost the american taxpayer to bail out that bunch of failures? what did it cost? hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. i will bet one day somebody is going to look back at this and they are going to say how on earth could we have thought it made sense to allow the banking industry to concentrate through merger and acquisition to become figure and bigger and bigger? far more firms in the category of too big to fail.

>> wow. just -- one of the most prophetic things you will ever see, byron dorgan, warning the impact of repealing this. repealed and just as byron dorg an predicted eight years later we have the largest financial crisis since the new deal, the point of which we passed. the big question in the dodd/frank bill is are we going to get back to what glass/steegal did is to separate out the different functions banks can play? commercial side very low risk? service oriented and investment side which is very high risk? the instrument by which glass/ste glass/steegal will be reinstated is by the volker rule. it is in the bill. the question is what will that look like? in response to a propose balance what the rule would look like occupy the sec, alexis, your group wrote a 325-page comment letter to the regulators saying what you thought of the raul they proposed.

basically arguing to make the rule tougher. right? first i want to talk about how you did this. because you guys are real occupy folks and you do all the -- hand signals. twinkles and do the human mike. my first thought was how did the 325-page letter on regulatory enforce many get written under those conditions? >> the first thing is we didn't intend to write such a long letter. it evolved that way. the process went like this. you have plan to show to -- i got involved in occupy wall street on right after the big pepper spray incident. and i heard naomi give an open forum talk in wrigley square and asked her a question about glass/steegal. people came up and asked what is this. i do this teach-in. i know what it is. i can do a big teach-in about that. our lawyer came up to me after and he got in touch with me and basically said the time is right, this is perfect, let's write a comment letter. we all thought it would be about 60 pages long. we sort of slowly but surely got

more people involved in the group and what we did is had a book club. we used the volker rule as a book club. we met in public atriums and in diners and we go through and we -- discuss our assigned reading and come up with bullet points to the answers to the questions. the agencies, sec, fdic, asked questions in the rule. and so -- it turned into this very long lust of bullets we slowly started to write and write and write. and i guess this sort of -- the ball kept rolling and turned into 325 page. >> one of the things interesting to me is that this -- what happens from my time covering washington is that a bill gets passed, particularly big bill like dodd/frank and everyone ad vote kagt it sort of loses sight of the legislation. and the actual fight happens in what the enforcement looks like, regulations are. and the interests you can bet are paying attention. right? i'm imagining the banks spent a lot of time reviewing the rule and commenting on it. >> i think that was one of our main intentions we wanted to

shine the light on this part of the process the media and public tends to go away at this point. right? banks and -- whatever regulation you are talking about usually the only people that comment are the people that are about to be regulated. and so we wanted to provide a different voice to say well, hold on. we want to give you guys alternatives. we want to, you know, try to represent a different opinion than what the banks are going to say which is predictably take this out, this is too harsh. this will ruin the economy. one thing we sort of say is how stupid do they think we are? ruin the economy? i mean -- when did that happen? why did that happen? >> the people in the group that were going through the rule, it is long, 300 pages itself. you worked on wall street. what did you do? >> you are too kind. i wouldn'tkind call myself an executive. i was a vice president but lots of people are vice presidents. i worked in technology, three different firms. i started out as programmer and moved into a role called

business analysis, the interface between the tech group and traders. i really had to learn the business and worked in equity derivatives. writing internal proprietary software for them. >> and -- what was it about your experience working there that would lead you to become part of occupy wall street? >> well, i think that -- for me, personally, i sort of had a growing knowledge and sense of frustration year after year. i don't think anyone who works on wall street thinks they are doing it for the greater good. i think people are there for one reason. they are there to make money. sort of, you know, every birthday, shall we say, i sort of said, well, what if i took all of this inordinate amount of time i spend on my job, everyone works 48 hours a week, forget it. 60, 70-plus. focus in on something that would be beneficial to the world. there's always this running theme in the back of my head. i don't know that it is a huge shock that i got involved with this. but -- i guess once i did get involved with -- at liberty square it was clear that this knowledge that i had could be very helpful and -- i could actually maybe do something

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single most fateful high-stakes battle in american politics and american political economy is whether the bill that we passed to regulate wall street actually does regulate wall street. and that battle is happening while a lot of us are turning a blind eye after covering the passages of legislation. it is in the nitty-gritty details of obscure provisions you had never heard of, your future is going to be determined. this is absolutely the case. the home you buy, the loans you get, the debt you owe, all of that will be determined by how this battle plays out. we are talking to alexis goldstein who is one of the people who is involved in occupy the sec which is trying to bring the voice of people, ordinary consumers, and experts in their own way into it. heather, had you a question for alexis. >> you said, alexis, the problem was whurp working on wall street you didn't feel like what you were doing on wall street was serving the greater good.

i understand how you could feel that going in day-to-day. but where i work in washington that is wall street's argument. that -- if they lose money. >> right. >> -- it will hurt the greater economy. so i think that that being able to crack that sort of core fallacy is what politicians are hungry for, who want to be more tough on wall street. but they say that they have a gun to our head because it will hurt real people in the real economy. >> i think it is disingenuous for a couple of reasons. i mean, banking industry, have you five firms that control everything. this idea if we all of a sudden regulate these big banks that enjoy the discount window and sort of i am police it government backing that everything will fall apart, what about free market capitalism? there are so many people that are so hungry to jump into these highly profitable areas that the banks currently have a stranglehold on and believe me, they will. there was a quote by a guy howard ludnick, ceo of bg partners. he said dodd/frank will be beneficial for my business or it

is going to be violently beneficial. so this idea that it is -- big banks aren't the ones providing the liquidity, all will just go away, is in my opinion disingenuous. >> this, to me, is where what passes for the left in washington, liberals, have really fallen down. have really turned their back on their heritage. there was a time -- byron dorgan from north dakota, midwest pop list many grew back decades ago, was an exemplar of that and turning to wall street and saying -- there are certain things you can't do. >> right. >> and if you are not going give us any money, too bad. one of the things that happened with the democratic party as far back as the 1970s it became so dependent on the financial world, i mean, you got -- you know, chuck schumer for who was democratic senator from new york defending those interests. when you get to the details and get past the speeches and listen to the fears, some of which may

be legitimate, probably most of which are not, saying if we are not as big and privileged as we were, the roof will fall in. what you don't have is -- here you can't get to my left. you guys probably could. my point being is if you don't have a -- political movement, whether it is funded by, you know, labor unions, or other people other than those dependent on financial institutions, you will be smaller than you were. >> yes. >> you are not going to make nine-figure bonuses. that's true. >> go back to the scary days in 1993. >> i think i'm right that bill clinton said in retrospect one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency was to go along with repeal of glass/steegal. it would have been nicefer he and the democrats were aware of this when they were repealing it. but, you know, the -- look, that -- >> that raises -- that raises one question about the -- the

occupy sec. i'm curious from the perspective of the occupy movement if there is some -- within the movement who might think that, you know, engaging in the process of dealing sort of nibbling at the edges where it is down to a -- technocratic level as opposed to saying no, go back to glass/steegal so it is not a technocrat that's in charge of arguing with wall street at that point. if -- if the -- if there is not some concern there is maybe a little -- that power that they -- movement brings. >> well, i think there is always disagreement within the movement and it is a huge cacophony of voices and there are people that would disagree with any reformist approach. what's beautiful about the way working groups work is they are all economists. as long as we don't try to speak for occupy wall street, the only way you can speak for wall street is going through the new york city general assembly which

sort of the decisionmaking bodies, so to speak, you are free to sort of do what you want. i take your point and lots of people would -- first of all, say well, this isn't good enough, let's go back to glass/steegal. ing the system is so broken it cannot be reformed. our approach is we don't think you have to choose. you can try to work within this system and you can try to build the -- a new system in a group called occupy bank thinking about how would we build a new bank from scratch. >> yeah. one of the things i think is -- fascinating in terms of the context of this, political context we talked about in terms of politicians finaling themselves, squeezed between voters and donors, you don't -- pop list many and certainly anti-bank sentiment is very popular. it has proven itself popular politically and not popular with the people you are taking checks from. one of the ways out of that bind is precisely through this process which is to go and pass a law and say look, we have regulated wall street and then once everybody is not paying attention, once you are actually doing the rule writing, right,

for everyone to leave the status quo untouched and that is -- is that a fair description of what is happening with dodd/frank? i want to get your sense of where we are in this because dodd/frank seems like a big accomplishment. consumer finance bureau and the president talks about it a lot. is it really going to solve the problem as it is headed now? >> well, i think there's two parts. right? you are right in this -- sort of regulatory drafting process. there's so much potential for things to be watered down in the loopholes to be introduced. you were talking about mitt romney before. there is a big careyi interest in the volcker rule. there's stuff in dodd/frank that's already there. section 121. public citizen filed a petition to the federal reserve saying bank of america needs to be broken up. and so far we haven't really seen any response to that from the fed. i think there's two parts. we need to sort of make sure that it doesn't get watered down in this drafting of the regulation before it becomes final.

then we also need to make sure that there are actual -- they are using the new powers they have been given. >> that depends on who is on the fence. and -- you know, remember when james carville once said trying -- said -- reincarnated and wanted to come back as the bond market everyone is scared. >> thank you. it is also when bill clinton said in his first term when they were first negotiating the budget, eisenhower, we are all republicans now. and -- because i think what happens in -- you see this over and over again. democratic administrations got into power and first thing they do is have to reassure wall street. and so there are -- appointments to secretary of the treasury and appointments to the fed and almost invariably come from the same -- cut of the same group that are the least people likely to say that -- sam rayburn, former speaker of the house, once said to a group of bankers, this uncollege educated guy from texas showed up at this big meeting of fancy bankers and this first -- first words were i quantity you to know i'm not scared of you. and -- it would be really nice to hear that from -- i don't

know, the next chairman of the fed. >> what is stunning is you look at that dorgan tape and what's -- not only stunning but how exactly he predicted what would happen. it is that -- nobody is doing what he thought people would do at that point. which is to go back and saw -- we are going to really regret, you know, there hasn't been that sort of like -- universal notion of wow, dorgan was right and we should go back and do it. he would go predicted what would happen when you reveal glass. he didn't predict the reaction that would happen when his predict -- first prediction comes true. >> he didn't predict -- he thought that on that same floor that senate body would be appalled. >> well, matching -- right. instead it is full speed ahead. [ female announcer ] water was meant to be perfect.

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intent, tell every trader vashgs lawyer, compliance off zoeshgts to see what their testosterone levels are, shrink, what's your tent? >> that's jamie dimon, banker extraordinaire whining about the possibility of whining and whining responsibilities of banks being regulated. they are still fighting tooth or nail every step of the way. volcker rule got a ton of comments from the banks. like you said. heather, you worked a lot from the beginning, very inception of this dodd/frank rule. what is your perspective on how much it solved the problem? >> there's always been a split within the bill. i mean, dodd/frank had -- you know, a number of different sections. the sections that dealt with consumer finances, mortgages, credit card for student loans, that set up the consumer financial protection bureau, was always the best part of the bill. i say the best part of the bill, in that it was the closest to what was really needed in terms of putting a new regulator on

the beat who was going to, you know, have a lot more power than any regulator has and a lot more desire to actually take care of them and families that stand up for the banks. we have always had this split between that, which is the high watermark of the bill and then when you got to actually regulateding wall street, actually doing some things to prevent future bailout and changing the business mod on wall street which is the area i was walking on. the dodd/frank reform bill. >> we will blame you good please do. i mean, it was tough. you know. i was there and i was both defending the very existence of the reforms and then going and speaking with, you know, larry summers and saying this isn't strong enough. that is the problem. that when it comes to actually changing the wall street business model, the bill has never been as ambitious as it has been on the consumer side. >> this is going to sound weird but this is a pet notion of mine about how we are -- how we do dialogue. i would you pay serious two figure sums to see jamie dimon

here and alexis here. >> believe me, nothing would make me happier. we ask the banks all the time. >> okay. fair enough. i believe it. what happens is you watch cnbc and dodd/frank is the worst thing since i don't know what. then you turn on this network and the problem with dodd/frank it is a much stronger and tougher. but you know, i realize it is old school but somewhere along the line, it is possible, i think to have a genuinely civilized and informative argument. if jamie dimon says x and alexis says not x, you are one of the few shows that has the time do it, look, we can sort this out. how accurate are his claims? maybe they -- maybe, i realize this is a puzzle. one will say on that point you may have something worth saying. but -- it is so -- >> even more old school. and -- you know, like -- the reason jamie dimon is not going to sit down at the -- without -- maybe he will, but -- you think

that -- the point is that he knows it is far more effective for him to be just -- >> caat the end of day it is a question of there are a limited amount of sort of -- ways that it can go. the -- these companies can continue to generate profits at the expense of our economy and at the expense of the lack of social utility or they won't. it is not in their interest to back off that. >> understand. quick point. andrew sorkin wrote a piece on the volcker rule. if i understand him right, liberal arts major, he said it is going to hit the face it will win closed cost. >> on the banks. not the economy. >> but he was suggesting that what -- have impact on the -- on the -- >> my only point is all -- i would love to see a forum where these things are actually talked through -- >> respond to that argument on costs. >> well, so -- the idea is that if these -- can't be the market makers and market maker, i was thinking about this analogy a

while. have you these pastries and no one eats them. if wane to be a market maker, hide these from everyone else and you say you would be willing to buy them for two bucks and el them for $1.90. i can make a market and beat the middleman. that's a highly profitable business they don't want to lose. they are saying if they can't be market makers, there are going to be increased costs or if there is all this -- compliance they have to do because of the volcker rule prove their market making -- the volcker rheaume meant to prevent, risky, spec a speculative gambling, it will cost small businesses and everybody money. and the fact of the matter is there are all these other players who have been dying to get that this business for so long and the banks strong-arm them out of it. that -- the idea that -- these costs are going to skyrocket i find to just be laughable. >> right. cost of skyrocket if competitors are not allowed into it. the point is they are protecting what -- what is an incredibly profitable undertaking which is both the market making and proprietor trade. market make sing a bit like bag

bookie. taking bets on both sides. it doesn't matter who wins the super bowl. because you made sure that -- the bet for the patriots and giants equal out so there is very little risk but a lot of money. prop trading, volcker rule is trying to get rid of, more actually betting on the giants. the point is that you have money riding on a particular outcome. one of the things we saw happened that led the financial crisis was the amount of proprietary trading. banks doing things like betting on the giants. right? for a lot of money when the bet was wrong, when the bet that the -- housing bubble would go on forever, when it with a wrong, they were out a lot of money. alexis goldstein, a member of occupy sec movement. we will have you back again. you are so fantastic. thanks for coming in. what you should know for the news week ahead. coming up next. ♪ imagine zero pollutants in our environment. or zero dependency on foreign oil. ♪ this is why we at nissan built a car inspired by zero. because zero is worth everything.

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christianity as i see it. i say tom donahue was the founder of ave maria university but it is not. i will tell you what i know when the week began. it is time for a preview of melissa perry. >> the goods to see you. i have been loving your conversation this morning. >> thank you. >> what we -- we have a lot coming up this morning. we will lay out the case for newt gingrich because that's what i like to do. somebody has to do it. it has been all of rick santorum lately. we will do a little tv evangelism. it is, after all, sunday morning. i have brilliant religious scholars on the show. we will do godly business. and, oh, yeah, they are all women. >> wow. >> godly women business. thank you. coming up next, what should you know for the week ahead? you should know that just a little over three years after mitt romney said we can, quote, kiss the american automotive

industry good-bye, general motors post ad quarterly profit of almost half a billion dollars. eighth consecutive quarterly profit. you should also know when the big banks were poise order the precipice mitt romney supported billions of dollars to save them from their bad debts. when it came from the $80 billion rescue of the auto industry and could have saved over 80 million jobs romney advised them to let them go bankrupt. supreme court stated a decision by the month monday supreme court to uphold that state's century old ban on corporate political fending. you should know montana law is being challenged by an anti-environmental group called american tradition partnership. montana shooting sports association, pro-gun rights organization, had painting in dry wall business that has a single shareholder business. they favor unlimited corporate spending. you should know this sets up an opportunity for tissue of unlimited corporate rapt spending and elections made famous by citizens united to once again be reviewed by the full court. speaking of big money in politics, you should know the

national organization for marriage, most prominent group devoted to opposing marriage equality, co-founder maggie gallagher, receives almost 09% of the tote am funding from just five donors according to analysis of the 2010 tax form. those five donors contributed about $9 million with just two donors contributing $6.3 million. almost 70% of the organization's total budget. you should know we don't know who those donors are but you should ask -- what that means about the grassroots support for their agenda. mitt romney has his own santorum problem. after columnist dan savage famously hung a crude sexual definition around the word santorum. you can find that on google if you so moved. those hoping to have some fun with mitt romney defined romney as a verb that means to defecate in terror. in reference to romney's famous admission he won't strap the family dog to the roof of their car during a vacation. fredding romney.com site where the definition can be found is now the second hit for the

search term romney on google. you should know the number of people seeking unemployment benefits fell to the lowest point in almost four years last week. the most recent data point indicating we are in the midst of an economic recovery. you should know the graph of weekly jobless claims looks like this. this is where the american recovery act started kicking in. you should also know that congress sent president obama a bipartisan $143 billion package that extends the two percentage payroll tax cut that provides jobless benefits for people that have been out of work for more than six months. you should know that only after the obama administration shifted away from compromise and turned towards confrontation has something like bipartisanship in congress become possible. in case you thought the intellectual property regime of the country was not totally out of control, you should know new parents, beyonce and jay-z filed an application with the patent and trademark office to claim rights to the name blue ivy carter for the possible of use

of future sale of baby merchandise. two different people had already beaten them to the punch filing for trademarks on the name so the trademark off denied both saying the name was, quote, that of a very famous infant. to round out our weekend trademark news you should know jerry lin filed for a trademark on what else, l lin- is an -- l- sanity. so, this is delicious okay... is this where we're at now, we just eat whatever tastes good? like these sweet honey clusters... actually there's a half a day's worth of fiber in every ... why stop at cereal? bring on the pork chops and the hot fudge. fantastic. are you done sweetie? yea [ male announcer ] fiber beyond recognition. fiber one. hey, i love your cereal there-- it's got that sweet honey taste. but no way it's 80 calories, right? no way.

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our dpess are back to tell us what we should know as the news unfolds this week. jeff, what should folks know? >> i wrestled with my conscience and won. the paperback of my fine book, three riveting accounts of what

if's altered histories, deeply researched, incredibly informative. no truth that it will increase weight loss or increase sexual prowess. >> i have not read the book, but it was just universally acclaimed critically. it got really fantastic reviews all over the place. >> we did. >> you must feel good about that. >> i do. >> heather mcghee what should folks need. >> since you stole mine, chris. i want to devil into the montana supreme court decision. what people need to know is how the montana supreme court was able to say that citizens united, the corporate limits on corporate money were unconstitutional. but we're going o to basically that same bill in montana and uphold it. it was because the supreme court said that on this question of fact, is it actually true that unlimited corporate money would corrupt our politics. they said, looking at the evidence, no. >> right. >> montana said actually we remember before we had this law

in our state and standard oil ran this state. so we're going to look at that same question of fact, look at all the evidence and say, yes, it is true that corporate money corrupts politics. so we'll be able to show what's happened in the past two years with super pacs and everything will be able to make an evidentiary case in front of the supreme court and say yeah, it corrupts politics. >> montana politics were famously among the most -- fuel extraction happening in the state, mining interests and they've run the state, they had senators who are essentially their sponsors. that doesn't sound that unfamiliar to us these days. krista freed land. >> you bought -- >> i don't remember. >> entire legislature. >> i do. i am holder than you. my need to know is this coming week is going to be a very big week for greece and therefore europe and therefore, the world. we're going to see if europa

proves greece's austerity package, thus making some of the rescue money available to gre e greece. that is really important because a default at the end of march is scarily possible. >> a greek default is likely to cause tremendous financial turmoil in the european markets and financial turmoil equals economic turmoil everywhere else. >> i happen to think it's going to be okay o. i'm guardedly optimistic about europe. this is an important -- >> it would change the views of election because of the impact -- we're in the midst of a delicate recover that i could not withstand a shock that -- a negative shock. >> exactly. we do remember the tsunami. that was close enough. that did actually knock another sort of fragile recovery off course. europe would be much worse. >> we will be keeping our eyes on greece. we covered a greece a bit here and wrestle with how to explain it and the dynamics.

we should pay close attention. >> you did a good job explaining greece. you and heather both took what i was going to say today. i'll add to that and briefly. it's not just heather making this case that in temps of the evidence, there's been no proof that this money corrupts our pol six or adds to the appearance of corruption. you have ginsburg and brier in issuing the stay, they said we have to issue a stay because what the supreme court of the united states issues is binding on state courts. but we should revisit this because of all this other facts. let me -- i'll also say that last week occupy longview or west coast occupiers basically because of the help they gave, the long shoremen at longview, the local long shoremen union in longview, washington, was able essentially to win in their battle against a big supplier

who trying to break their union. and they've been credited by the local union. i think we'll see more of that as we get closer. >> that's a great thing to think about. thanks to my guests. author of the book, stunning alternate history of politics. host of pbs need to know, heather mcghee from ee moes. chrystia free land. and sam seder and co-host of the radio show ring of fire. ring of fire.com. thank you all. thank you for joining us. we'll be back next saturday and sunday at 8:00. both teams eastern time. we'll have a democrat from oregon and bob herbert former columnist for the new york times. in the us online at up.msnbc.com. you won't want to miss day what 6 melissa harris-perry's new show. see you next week on "up."

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