election could still fall into the hands of the other side. that's "hardball" for now. "politics nation" with al good evening, amicans, welcome to "the ed show." tonight from new york.

>> gary williams, who feared the

best in that portion of the debate? >> barack obama. look, this is a remarkably simple thing. while these yakhouba were sitting in arizona debating each other, and drinking down after gallon of hate toward each other and the president, barack obama was signing yet another tax cut that helps people in arizona and in michigan and in the state of ohio, where i am sitting right now. they are talking about birth control, planned parenthood, my civil rights, or lack thereof, and the breakdown of the family. barack obama signed a tax cut into law. get a grip, guys. you don't even know how to run your own state. >> they asked about birth control, and the crowd didn't like it. very favorable to help the candidates on a controversial issue. here it is. >> since birth control is the latest hot topic, which candidate believes in birth control, and if not, why?

>> as you can see, it's a very popular question. >> lou very popular question, as we can see. we will not spend a lot of time on this. >> can i make a point? >> sure. >> and the crowd was helping them out tonight to avoid a controversial issue. i have to find this sign that. they were on the record all avoiding the birth control question. >> you did not once in the 2008 campaign asked why barack obama voted in favor of legalizing this? let's be clear here. if we are going to have a debate about who the extremist is on this issue, it is president obama cahoot as a state senator protected doctors to kill babies who survived abortion. >> i do not think we have seen the kind of attack on religious contras, religious freedom and tolerance that we have seen in barack obama.

>> we have a problem in this country. the family is fracturing. over 40% are born out of wedlock. how can a country survive? the children are being raised in homes where it is so much harder to succeed economically. >> terry o'neil, is president obama that extremists on this issue? what do you think? >> the crowd did not want to talk about birth control because a loser issue for all of the men on that panel. one of the things that really irks me, i guess, about this claim that the birth control issue is not about women, not about birth control but about the religious freedom of religious institutions. let's be clear, 90% of catholic women who are sexually active use birth control at some point. the bishops and evangelicals too are not able to sell their dogma to their women. what they are insisting is that

the government should help them do what they can do. the government should prevent women from accessing birth control because these priests in these evangelical preachers cannot convince are on women to stop using birth control. that is a violation of the wall between church and state. for mitt romney and the other republicans to say that somehow what a mandate that birth control simply be covered as a part of an ordinary part of preventive health care, somehow that is a violation of the bishop's right to religious freedom is absolutely backward and upside down. >> karen finney, i thought they were likely to skirt the issue tonight. they did not want to talk about it. it seems to be the soft underbelly of the republicans right now that they have drifted off into this. i think terry is right about the religious aspect of this. how do you feel about how it played out?

>> watching that, i was really not surprised but disappointed just in the coward is that we saw, not one -- all those men sat there and puffed up their chests and attacked barack obama about this and that, but none had the courage to answer the questionnaire's question that wasn't even a question from john king but somebody e-mailed it. a voter actually asked that. nobody answered that question truthfully. we had all the usual rhetoric attacking barack obama and going on to the church and state. these guys are such cowards. i am just sick of it. >> in michigan, the polling shows that rick santorum is really dropping with women, and of course it can be contributed to this issue. romney leads with 37, 35%. it seems to me he has slipped in the polls because he has gone off on these issues instead of talking about jobs and

manufacturing, i am talking about santorum. what are you thinking? >> i spent almost seven years as a staffer in the senate. rick santorum was there pretty much the entire time. the only thing he was ever known for, ever known for was coming down to the senate floor with a big poster showing partial birth abortions. that was it. that was his legacy. listen, when men run around this country, running for president, trying to tell women what to do with their bodies and they are not even married to them, i just think that is crazy talk. i can't imagine the theory of any mantling a woman that is not his wife or his girlfriend or his love for what she should be doing in the privacy of her own home. that is what is happening here. it's just stupid politics. >> it was interesting that santorum at the end tried to say, i come from a key state of pennsylvania. guess what, he lost that state by huge margins on these issues.

>> 18 points. here is rick santorum explaining his vote in favor of no child left behind. i thought he made a strategic error here tonight. when he was asked about the policy of no child left behind, he offered up the fact that he voted for it. make somebody else do that. where do you stand on education now? he made a tactical mistake there and left himself open on that. here's his answer. >> politics is a team sport, folks. sometimes you have to rally together and do something. in this case, i thought testing and finding out how bad the problem was wasn't a bad idea. what was a bad idea was all the money put out there, and that was a huge problem. i admit the mistake, and i will not make that mistake again. not only do i believe the federal government should get out of the education business, i think the state should and put it back to the local and community.

>> terry o'neil, it seems like rick santorum is in denial that we do have successful single moms in our society. if you were to take funding out of public education, where does that leave america and america's families? >> rick santorum has said that he likes home schooling. he home schooled his kids. sure, and he charged the people of pennsylvania $55,000 to home school his children when he was a senator in washington. if you make that kind of money while you are home schooling, who wouldn't? he doesn't have that in mind for the rest of that, right? it is very offensive the way that both rick santorum and other republican candidates have talked about how the privileged family that is a heterosexual family, a mom and a dad, that is the first class family. all the other families, the

0-mom families are second-class citizens or second class families. if you shut them public schools, that makes it harder for those families choose -- >> quickly, karen, who won tonight? mitt romney leads in michigan and arizona. did he hurt himself tonight? >> i don't think he did. his answers were also tailored -- remember that michigan is an open primary, so -- which is part of the reason i think he did not try to take the bait on some of the social issues and went to the religious freedom piece of that because he is trying to get those independent voters. that seemed to me who he was speaking to in michigan, knowing that he has already hurt himself on the auto bailout. >> i do think he hurt himself on the last answer, the biggest misconception about you as a candidate. he was arrogant enough to say i will answer it the way i want to.

>> actually in november the american people well. for the 20th debate in a row, barack obama won. he wasn't even there. it was a great debate tonight. >> karen finley and terry o'neil, jimmy williams, great to have you with us. thank you so much. share your thoughts about and that could be debates. we want to know what you think. and as nbc political analyst richard wolf on tonight's debate. rick santorum tries to explain comments he made in 2008 about president obama and st. louis. will voters by his explanation quicksand of shrimp will weigh in.

coming up on the ed show, the candidates attack the

president on foreign policy. more analysis with msnbc's richard wolfe coming up next. still ahead, a new policy in chicago could close public schools in poor areas. i will speak to the head of the chicago teachers union about what this means for students. sarah palin says a brokered convention would be a good thing, and she is not alone. mike capps antonio takes on the gop surge is later in the hour. share your thoughts on twitter using #ed show. we are right back.

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it just seemed to me tonight they had come together and said, we're really going to hit president obama on this and show some unity. i don't know if that happened but it seemed that way. they are absolutely bent that this president is doing the wrong thing in dealing with iran. your thoughts on that. >> well, again, they can only make that case by entirely misstating his position. so his actual rhetorical

position is no different from president bush, that he will not tolerate iran having a nuclear weapon. but look at the sanctions regime. rick santorum went out there and said this president opposed sanctions. this is the toughest sanctions regime ever in iran's history, and it is hurting iran and we're seeing them taking all sorts of retaliatory action against our european allies. so europe's allies are standing with america against iran and its plans on nuclear weapons. we didn't see that through the bush years. this is something this administration has been fully behind, has been leading. so i don't see how any of this stacks up. >> richard, what did you think of the monday morning quarterbacking about how the president is handling the serious situation? i mean, it was almost as if we need to invade them right now to straighten this out and make sure there's freedom on the march. what do you think? >> this was obviously an extremely distressing situation. you heard from u.n. ambassador susan rice in the strongest

terms about how outrageous this is. but part of the problem america faces is what happened in libya is successful. russia and china are determined not to let that happen anywhere else again. even with arab league support, it is extremely difficult for america, nato to do what it did in syria. there has to be some kind of principles. we're not used to republicans saying that america has to intervene in any humanitarian situation. is it just because it's syria? is it all humanitarian situations? i didn't hear a credible, coherent approach from these republican candidates about when had it's right and wrong to intervene. >> and they always try to out-tax cut on one another. here's santorum on romney's tax plan. take a look. >> governor romney today suggested raising taxes on the top 1%, adopting the occupy wall street rhetoric. i won't adopt that rhetoric. we're not raises taxes on anybody. >> governor, quickly, i want to bring the speaker into the conversation.

respond. >> there were so many misrepresentations there it's going to take me a little while. number one, i say today we're going to cut taxes on everybody across the country including the top 1%. >> what did you make of that exchange, and did mitt romney leading in the polls hurt himself tonight? >> no, i don't think he did hurt himself. this is not the party of ronald reagan anymore. if they're serious about definite deficits they can't take taxes off the table. mitt romney is smart enough to realize that. it makes you wonder how they take it to the public in a general election. the next successful republican candidate for president is going to have to deal with taxes and yes that includes raising taxes if they ever want to deal with deficits. >> and they all had the same position on education tonight. they all want to get the government out of it and they don't want any intervention whatsoever or any government control. that seemed to be another theme that all of them were going with

tonight. richard wolffe, appreciate you joining us. up next, the survival of the fittest mentality in the chicago school system. they're shutting down schools. and the circus -- or should i say this crisis has national implications. the president of the chicago teacher's union joins me. later, letterman breaks through donald trump's thin skin about telling jokes about mitt romney's dog.

that's locally run that works with parents to provide the optimal opportunity for each child in america to get the education that they need, not what the federal government or the state government says that you should have. >> welcome back to "the ed show." there is a survival of the fittest rich versus the poor mentality threatening to destroy the chicago public schools system. it's a dynamic threatening school systems all across the country. teachers and parents are protesting a chicago school board decision to close or overhaul 17 schools. the plan shuts down underperforming schools which were already underfunded, underresourced, leaving many poor communities without a neighborhood school. the reverend jesse jackson says it's a two-tiered school system benefitting certain schools over

others. >> there's segregation system that undermines the law manufacture democratic mayor rahm emanuel has pushed the plan and is defending it. >> these turnaround schools, neighborhood turnaround schools, have seen double the improvements in math and reading that the cps system as a whole has. i want that for more kids. and if i give them the chance of a good teacher an accountable principal and encourage parental involvement, our kids have a chance at a future. >> really good sales pitch. let's turn to karen lewis, president of the chicago teachers union. this is not about a teachers union. this is about the kids in the classroom, poor neighborhoods in chicago that are being targtsed for closure because they haven't been given the resources to survive and to achieve in their test scores. what's really going on here, ms. lewis? >> well, what's really going on is a planned, very well-orchestrated attack on

public education in chicago. so we have seen that the third in charge at chicago public schools has said clearly, we are not going to finance schools, we're not going to fund schools that we plan on closing down. so this has been something that's been going on for quite some time. it is the status quo in chicago, by the way. we had some earth-shaking, breaking reform in the late '90s where we had local school councils have control over hiring and evaluation of principals and also evaluating and looking at discretionary funds in the budgets for those schools. well, once you put a school on probation, you take away the power of the local school council. so there has been this stealth attack on democratically controlled schools for 15 years so now's just top-down. >> all right. but the schools being closed are in impoverished neighborhoods, correct?

>> absolutely. >> how many schools have been closed in affluent neighborhoods in chicago or middle class neighborhoods? >> oh, ed, you know how many. zero. >> okay, zero. >> so let's talk about this. >> you're saying this is about resources thshgs is about giving up on school districts and schools in impoverished neighborhoods and you've had an official tell you, please reiterate what that official tell you about funding to those schools. >> well, they said they weren't going to fund them. but we've also had the same mayor say to me personally that 25% of the kids are never going to amount to anything, they're never going to be anything and i'm not throwing money at it. >> wait a minute, rahm emanuel said to you that -- >> yes. >> -- 25% of the kids aren't going to make it? >> yes. the first time i ever met him and we had dinner, he told me this. i was stunned. i said, even if you believe, that you cannot say that to me. but then you go out and you -- >> so he's accepting failure is what he is.

>> well, no. he's saying he's not going to fund it. so what do you do? you take places that are on their way up, you take them over ksz and then you start touting these numbers that aren't true. twice as much support. at best, the turnaround schools give three months of extra support. three months of growth at best. >> here's more from former chief of staff of president obama rahm e emanuel. >> change is hard, but watching year in and year out kids capture in a system that's failing is harder. >> what's your response to that? >> he is absolutely right, but this is not change. this is the same old status quo policy that we've been under for the last 15 years. and it doesn't work! it is a failed policy. it's chicago public schools' failed policy and they have xmroited this madness to the rest of the country.

>> so what happens to these kids in the poor neighborhoods where the schools are shut down and of course we should point out that they give millions of dollars to the charter schools. what happens to the kids? they just get bussed to another school? >> some do, some don't. some stay in the same school and they bring in new staff. that's the turnaround model. but what's interesting about the turnaround model -- >> they bring in new staff? wait a minute. they bring in new staff? you mean they get rid of teachers? >> teachers, principals, lunch room ladies, security guards being everybody. everybody goes. all the adults go. >> and what do you say to rahm emanuel. he says the test scores are better. >> okay, i'm going to tell you again. three months of growth at best. >> okay. >> so this is their talking point. it's a talking point. don't buy the hype. >> so rahm emanuel is lying is what he's doing. >> he's doing something. >> is he lying? is he telling the truth to the public when he stands in front of the microphone and says that scores are better and that this is the way to go and it's better

for the system? >> it depends on the school, but i will tell you in many of the schools the scores are not better. >> okay. >> they are not better. >> karen lewis -- >> so you can spin it. >> well, i don't want to spin it. i want the truth and i think it is wrong we're picking and choosing. we're picking and choosing the poor versus the rich in this country and hiding behind saying public education doesn't make it. how many teachers are going to lose their jobs because of this? >> anywhere up to 800. >> okay. there just happens to be 800 lousy teachers in chicago so let's get rid of them all. this is all about the money and this is all about the wealthy and the charter schools. i'm not going to let this story go. karen, i'm out of time. >> thank you. >> appreciate your time tonight. please come back with us. >> thank you. no written speeches. the opportunity to see what's in here, what's up here and what's burning down here. >> rick santorum's fire is burning and he's defending his satan comments.

bob shrum and james peterson on the politics much the cloth, next. the donald trump/david letterman feud is spilling over into the campaign and now mitt romney's dog is involved. we'll bring you up to speed. >> there used to be a time when people said, you know what? i'm thinking about running for president and somebody else would say, mitt, remember the time you tied the dog to the roof of the car? and democrats treeming of a brokered convention have reason to believe. >> however a brokered convention? i wouldn't be afraid of that. >> ring of fire radio host mike pappen tone yoe is ahead. why r in the first place. and why you still feel the same. but your erectile dysfunction -- that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions

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no teleprompters, no written speeches, the opportunity to see what's in here. what's up here. and what's burning down here.

>> believe it or not, rick santorum does not need to call a doctor, that was his explanation of why his candidacy is resonating with voters. now santorum is getting hit for remarks he made back in 2008 at a catholic university in florida speaking about then candidate barack obama's position on abortion. here's part of what santorum had to say. >> this is not a political war at all. this is not a cultural war at all. this is a spiritual war and the father of lies has his sights on what you would think the father of lies satan would have his sights on, a good, decent powerful, influential country. the united states of america. if you were satan, who would you attack in this day and age. there is no one else to go after. other than the united states. that has been the case for now almost 200 years. once americans pre em i sown. >> it's absurd. if a person -- i'm a person of faith.

i believe in good and evil. because if you're person of faith is a disqualifier for president we'll have a small pool of candidates. >> i'm joined by bob shrum and professor at nyu and dr. james peterson, director of africana studies at lehigh university. we're talking contraception, faith, talking abortion, bob, what is going on, why are they going down this road and what about santorum? >> santorum reminds me of something pope john xxiii said at the opening of the vatican council, denounced prophetz, they burn with zeal but lack common sense. he's wrong on the theology and politics. you can't turn america in a special precinct of heaven.

this is a country, not a church. you can't confuse the secular with the sacred. listen to commentators going crazy. there is much or more against santorum as they were against newt gingrich they think he's a loser. the irony is romney, to compete with santorum has taken many of the same positions, just without the white hot rhetoric and what he thinks will redeem him in a general election is people they he's not telling the truth. the fact he lies all the time becomes a defense mechanism. >> dr. peterson, your take on santorum's talk about satan and putting it in current terms. >> doesn't he sound like reverend wright? he's very consistent. this is micropartisanship. he has to speak to a specific religious right and that is where he gets trapped.

he can't back off of that because those are the folk who are voting for him. until newt gingrich gets out of the race, he has to keep pandering to the right in the very strong, very religious terms. i would argue that or agree with bob but argue that this is problematic for american politics going forward because we don't want to have religion in our politics in this way. >> the politics of it right now for rick santorum, when he won missouri, minnesota and colorado, leading up to that, he was talking about manufacturing. he was talking about jobs and the economy. he was talking about being the most conservative one of the bunch but he has turned to the president's faith, he has turned to the social issues beyond. this is really what is starting to deep-six him in the polls or am i wrong? >> i think you're right. maybe he ought to use the teleprompter. when he talks from inside what is burning and lets that fire out, he moves the whole process to the right, he makes the republican party look extreme,

he makes himself look absurd, he forces romney to compete with him and ed, this is all part of a pattern. they got elected in 2010 saying they would focus on jobs. >> that lane is closed because the economy is improving, that is not open for them to make those kind of attacks. let's be clear here the president doesn't support abortion he supports a woman's right to choose. the political rhetoric is more than white hot it's ignorant. >> doctor, what about franklin graham's comments about president obama and then going on another network the next day and clarifying what he really meant? what is going on here? we are questioning the faith of the president of the united states. political motives there? >> absolutely. we're not questioning it but those on the right have to. certain lanes are closed down do them they don't have the economy lane, they can't win against this president in certain areas they think they want to like michigan because of gm and what he has done with the car industry, in those situations, the tactics become really dramatic so you roll out a graham to say the things they

can't say. best believe that is coming from the right. >> as disgruntled as republicans are with romney, he's starting to get help from santorum. >> no, i think that is absolutely right. the republican establishment is determined to nominate romney, he's coming back a little bit in michigan, looks like he may win it. he is well ahead in arizona, he may be behind in the national polls, but what they are hoping he gets through michigan and arizona they con nominate him because they don't have anybody else to nominate. >> very conservative voters in michigan prefer santorum over romney. a surrogate says social issues will lead to the defeat of san tore and also the gop. >> a party believes in government out of your life, the precious right of privacy and right to be left alone. how then can they be the hypocracy, we won't have a prayer.

>> he's a republican in name only. it's not just santorum. you talked about virginia, forcing women who have trans vaginal sonograms. you have a republican crusading against birth control. that is the spectacle being given to the country. >> senator simpson is the real republican here, they moved so far to the right, and become so drastic they sound like, i don't know. >> dr. james peterson and bob shrum, great to have you tonight. donald trump gets his feelings hurt by david letterman. he retaliates on twitter. we'll break down the trump-letterman feud next.

up next, donald trump and david letterman go head-to-head over mitt romney. the big finish, mike papantonio and sarah palin's hope of a brokered convention.

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this morning, donald trump took a break from recording robo calls for mitt romney to take a cheap shot at david letterman with this tweet. the show has become boring and mundane, somehow every time i look i can't help thinking of the world shattering poor performance of the academy awards a number of years ago. anyway, i hope he gets it together. what is going on here? trump's problem is personal. it goes back to last april when trump started conspiracy theories about president obama's grades. here what is letterman had to say. >> my point is it's all fun,

it's all a circus, all a rodeo until it starts to smack of racism. >> you thought it was racist? >> yes. >> letterman did more damage to trump's delicate ego after donald endorsed mitt romney. >> mitt romney is sinking in the polls. sinking in the polls, that is the magic of a donald trump endorsement right, there ladies and gentlemen. missouri, minnesota and another state, i think it was colorado. mitt romney lost all three of those primaries. yep, yep. today, he begged donald trump to take back his endorsement. >> but the final straw for trump may have been letterman's opening monologue last night. it had a very specific anti-romney theme. >> there used to be a time whether people said i'm thinking about running for president and somebody else would say, "mitt, remember the time i tied the dog to the roof of the car." >> you want that guy in the oval office? tied his dog to the roof of a car?

that is the guy? really? george washington i cannot tell a lie. i cut down the cherry tree. abe lincoln freed the slaves. mitt romney, i tied my dog to the station wagon! i don't know why this isn't a bigger issue. he tied his damn dog to the roof of his car. >> if anyone thinks trumps endorsement makes a difference, i have one thing to say, that dog don't hunt. >> sarah palin cheers the idea of brokered convention, mike papantonio checks in next.

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so i get claritin clear for strong, non-drowsy relief of all my allergies like dust mold pets and pollen. looks good. thanks. i live claritin clear. welcome back to "the ed show." big finish tonight, more headaches for the republican party. one candidate declares third party run, republicans on the sidelines say a brokered convention could be a good idea. sarah palin was asked if she

would be open to the republican party came to her. >> well, the establishment will never come to me, i know that, brokered convention i won't be afraid of that. the electorate shouldn't be afraid of that, that is a continuation of a process and competition that perhaps would be in the end very good for our party and good for the cause of defending our republic. >> little too much caffeine there, rick perry, governor of texas endorsed newt gingrich when he dropped out of the race. but now he says this may go all the way to the convention. it may be a brokered convention. what insight. >> one more thing, here comes buddy roemer. maybe you never heard of buddy roemer, but he's a former louisiana congressman and governor, he's ending his run for the gop nomination and he's going to run as an independent on the americans elect ticket. he's seeking the nomination of the reform party. let's bring in mike papantonio, host "ring of fire" on radio

stations across the stations. sort out the possible from the crazy, what is happening? >> first of all, palin does see herself as a candidate. she wants a brokered convention because in her crazy, delusional mind she sees herself at the top of the ticket, santorum running as a vp. she is manipulative opportunityist who never stopped trying to run for president. she destroyed the republican ticket in 2008. you will see her unleash her flying monkey type of campaign more and more as we get closer to the convention. remember this -- >> you think she is serious or is she just talking smack for the tv camera, what do you think? >> no, she is always serious. she is delusional, ed, in her mind she still thinks there is a possibility. this is the woman that mike murphy, the big dog campaign guy for the gop called her a train wreck in 2008, ed.

he said she was a stone-cold loser. she has been criticized from virtually everybody in the organized gop, it doesn't stop her, she is shameless, manipulative, in the back of her mind she believes there is a possibility if things shake up at that convention. >> whether or not about rick perry? he added his voice in the conversation of a brokered convention, is he bitter about the whole deal? >> i think a guy like rick perry sees the same thing. they think a shake-up works for them. you heard jeb bush, daniels, a guy like perry thinks there might be something that comes out of this if there is a brokered convention. he's just like sarah palin, he is not a realist, delusional most of the time but sees this as an opportunity and so the more shake up, the better for people like perry and palin. >> talk about buddy roemer could it shave a point or two in the general election? i don't think he would be a real

strong third party, but he might peel a few people off, what do you think, the big thing is elect shun finance reform, what do you think? >> he could be. listen, he is the closest thing to a moderate gop candidate that has existed since george bush number one. he truly is a moderate. he was a democrat, changed to the republican party as governor in louisiana, they loved him down there. he was in favor of campaign reform, he gave teachers a big pay, he was considered a middle class governor. once he gets in front of the camera, ed, he is very effective, people relate to him, they want to hear his message, it's what the republicans have lacked they haven't been able to put the kind of message out. he's a viable candidate. >> we'll talk to him. mike papantonio, thank you for your time. that is "the ed show," listen to me on the radio monday through friday, 12:00 to 3:00.