this sunday, just two days now before the high stakes primaries in michigan and arizona. can the santorum surge withstand attacks on his senate voting record? >> i made a mistake. >> i don't know that i have ever heard a politician explain in so many ways why he voted against his principles. >> and he reshapes the race. what defeat in michigan would mean for governor romney, who is struggling to close the deal with conservatives. with us, chuck todd, and gop strategist, steve schmidt, and columnist for the washington post, kathleen parker, and

congressman, harold ford, jr. and gas prices, immigration, and jobs and the economy. with us, arizona's republican governor, jan brewer, and california's democratic governor, jerry brown. captions paid for by nbc-universal television good morning. we will begin with overseas this morning. two american military officers were shot dead in kabul. the suspect, an afghan police intelligence officer. now they have recalled nato personnel working in the afghan ministries in that area, all of this after personnel burned a pile of korans setting off days of protest across the country and creating a sense of urgency and the new questions about the terms and timetable for american withdrawal.

joining me american presidential candidate, and a two-term senator from pennsylvania, senator santorum. welcome back to the program. >> thank you, and good to be with you. >> president obama personally apologized to president karzai for this apparently inadd vur opportunity act of burning the korans. what is your reaction to the situation unfolding there? >> i don't think he should have y apologized for something inadd vurant. this is something that occurred that should not have occurred but it was an accident and leave it at that. i think you highlight it when you apologize for it. you make it sound like there was something that you should apologize for, and there was no act that needed an apology, and i think the response has -- needs to be apologized for my

karzai and the afghan people of attacking and killing our men and women in uniform, and overreacting to this mistake. that is the real crime, not what our soldiers did. >> is there a bigger question about our involvement in afghanistan that this racises fr you? >> i do commend the president for his commitment of troops in the counter insurgents, and we still have problems with elements within afghanistan that continue to be a problem and of course elements outside in pakistan, the county network as well as taliban that are continuing to cause problems. i think they are continuing to cause problems and one of the reasons we are seeing this is because the president has not given a full commitment to resolving the situation in unfavorable terms to everybody involved, everybody -- the afghans who are in power right now as well as the united states, and he has put a

timetable and said we're getting out of there, and that means everybody has to hedge their bets. those that are opponents of the united states, the taliban and etc. are buying their times and having operatives in the country. we have not given a commitment to success and that's the underlying problem here. >> let's turn to politics, and the big tuesday coming up in arizona and michigan. what is going to be decisive here? it seems to be down to the wire in michigan. >> that's pretty amazing if you think about it, david. this is a state that i am sure governor romney getting into this race thought he would have to spend $20 and easily cruise to victory in michigan, and here we are being badly out spent again by his super pac and big-dollar friends, and we are hanging in there and holding our own, and that's going to drive up our negatives a little bit, but what is holding on is the positive message that we have been out there talking about what we're going to do to create

jobs in the state of michigan, and focus on the manufacturing sector of the economy and cutting the corporate tax for all other corporations in half, and much more dramatic and dynamic ideas to get the economy going than governor romney's plan with nothing new, and ideas that are timid and institutional and insider being designed by a whole bunch of washington lobbyist that are basically running his campaign, and it's not inspiring anybody. we are inspite of the attacks and negative tea, our message of hope for those who have been left behind in the economy is resonating here in michigan and around the country. >> i have governor brewer coming up in a couple minutes, and would you make a pitch to her for her endorsement. >> i have talked to governor brewer, and her willingness to stand up to president obama and fight for the rights of the people of arizona and the security and safety of the

people of arizona, and i don't know what governor brewer will do, and i focused on going to the people, like i have in every state, and we did a big tea party down in tucson and got a great response, and that's another tough state for us. demographically it doesn't work quite as well as some other states, but we feel, again, in these two races, what we believe will come out of tuesday, it's a two-person race right now. we have both the resources and the ideas and the record to go out there and not just compete against governor romney, but be the conservative alternative to barack obama, and that's what we are excited about resulting from this tuesday. >> do you think it's a two-person race or a two-person race with romney with a very strong assist from ron paul? i heard you talk about that. >> well, you know, it's sort of funny. you guys -- you guys figure this one out. when rick perry or herman cain

or rick santorum rise up and make it a two-person race, if you will, there's one constant, ron paul is attacking whoever is going up against mitt romney. he is in the state of michigan running ads against me and not campaigning in the state of michigan, so i throw that out and scratch my head -- >> is this a handshake deal between romney and paul? >> i would love somebody to ask that question, what is going on? look at the debates. to me, i am out here running because i want to be president. i am out here running because i want to make sure that we have returned power back to the people in this country. not because i am trying to, you know, ma maneuver for one or more candidates, and i am here because i want somebody who will fight for all americans, not 95%, but 100% of americans. >> you are going after romney and paul and keeping your sights

set on president obama. you spoke about higher education, and i want to play a portion and ask you a question about it. >> president obama said he wants everybody in america to go to college. what a snob. there are good decent men and women that go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that are not taught by some liberal college professor trying to indoctrinate them. i understand why he wants you to go to college, he wants to remake you in his image. >> what does that mean, senator? >> barack obama's a person of the left. somebody who believes in big government and believes in the values that unfortunately are the dominant values and political values and overly politicized values on most colle colle college campuses, and i want everybody to have the opportunity to go to college or other higher training skills,

and i talk about growing the energy and manufacturing sector of the economy, and we will need upgraded skills for people to go and operate the machinery and do the things necessary, but it doesn't mean you have to go to the four-year college degree, and i think everybody should have the opportunity. the question is, what is best for you? that's what this country has to be about, making sure we have opportunities for everybody and their dreams. >> but your vision for america is that you shouldn't have that opportunity, you shouldn't be encouraged to do it? isn't the realfie in the economy the unemployment rate among college is 4%. >> david, you know, i have seven kids. i can tell you, there are some who would do very well and excel and others, you know what? they have different skills, and different things they want to do with their lives and the idea of

saying unless you do this, you are not sort of living up to our goals. i just disagree with that. >> but do you encourage your own children to go to college? >> if that's -- i encourage my kids to get higher education, absolutely. in fact, if college is the best place for them, absolutely. but you know what? if going to a trade school and learning to be a carpenter or plumber or other types of skills that are an artist or whatever the case may be or a musician, all of those things are very important and worthwhile professions that we should not look down our nose at and say they are less because you did not get a four-year college degree. >> there's a fight between you and romney about who is more plyable. you talked about your vote for no child left behind, president bush's education reform and there was a response from romney and the days that followed.

let me play the exchange. >> i have to admit, i voted for that. it was against the principles i believed in, but, you know, when you are part of the team sometimes you take one for the team and the leader and i made a mistake. politics is a team sport, folks, and sometimes you have to rally together and do something. >> i don't know that i have ever seen a politician explain in so many ways why it was he voted against his principles. >> we enlisted questions from facebook as we try to do each week. this is one from kim smith. if he voted against his conscience on no child left behind, what else has he voted on with the party against his conscience? >> i get so much criticism, because i am too conservative and too doctrined, and romney has a strong representation of voting on both sides of almost every single issue, for governor

romney to be the one attacking me, which is even funnier, that romney agreed with no child left behind and still supports no child left behind. what i saw after no child left behind was passed and we saw a huge expansion of the fed's role in expansion, and i looked and said that's not what i believe in, and i have a plan that will get the federal government out of education and we need to get the state government back out of education and have the community build a customized program for every single child in america, that's what i believe. governor romney doesn't believe that. mine is a conservative vision and a traditional vision of how america works from the bottom up, and governor romney whether it's education he still supports no child left behind or romneycare, and whether it's cap and trade and taking over the manufacturing sector of the economy and energy uses in the country, i understand what team he is on, and it's not the same

team i am on, i am on the team of america that believes in limited government, and he is for big government consistently, and out there in the debates he tries to say he's the conservative. it's a joke. >> the question is about who is political politically plyable. you admitted basically you were just playing politics. you did not like john mccain, so you made the political calculation you would endorse romney, or voting for a bailout even though you are opposed to bailouts. >> i didn't vote for a steal bailout. what i voted for was to enforce the tariffs when china was illegally dumping steel in this country. there are laws that protect manufacturers from illeg dumpin

and china was breaking the law and i supported the tariffs. there's a process. the steel industry has never been bailed out. that's the example i talk about all the time. i went through the '70s and '70s and saw the destruction in pennsylvania, and the steel industry didn't get a bail out. it turned out just fine for western pennsylvania, and we have a diversified economy and i didn't stand for bailouts then and did not stand for the bailouts of detroit or wall street, and -- >> but you are not opposed to -- >> hold on, let me finish, david. he violated his principles i guess because he is for bailouts and denied a bailout for detroit. that's the hypocrisy here. >> you are interested in using government for different means, right? in your economic plan you would like to incentivize manufacturers. but you are opposed to extending unemployment benefits because

you think that's creating too much dependency on the part of government. but isn't that hypocritical when you are using government in the way you see fit to help corporations but not to help people out of work for so long? >> i am glad you asked me that. why are you picking manufacturing, and isn't that picking winners and losers? no, it's not. manufacturers have to compete not just other manufacturers in this country, but they have to compete internationally, directly internationally for jobs to stay in america, and the problem is the government's policy is making manufacturers in this country uncompetitive, and as a result, manufacturing jobs are moving offshore. so if the government is causing the problem, then government has a responsibility to fix the problem. in other words, to change the regulatory environment, which i do in our plan, and to change the tax plan, which i do in our plan, and it's about creating a level playing field.

i am for the equal opportunities, and my concern is the length of unemployment insurance leads -- there's all sorts of studies, the longer you are on, particularly a year or more, leads to long-term chronic problems of getting back in the workforce, and you lose skills and all sorts of things. it is not beneficial for people in the long term to be on long-term unemployment. that's the argument i made. >> i want to ask about the area about your faith, and you talk about it week in and week out and it's very important to you. i want to play a famous clip from jfk's a speech in 1960 where he talked about his views of religious influencing him, and this is a portion of what he said. >> i believe in a president whose views on religion are his own private affair, neither imposed upon the nation nor imposed upon the nation by him as a condition to holding that

office. i do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me. >> you called that in the past, a quote, horrible speech, in part because you felt that he was too rigid about the separation of church and state. there's a concern within the party and certainly to a lot of other voters, where your faith ends and your presidency would begin. >> the original line was quote, i believe in america with a separate of church and state is absolute. that is not the founders' vision. that's not the american that was made the greatest country in the world. the first amendment says the free exercise of religion -- james madison called people of faith, and by the way no faith and different faith, the ability to come in the public square with diverse opinions and

motivated by different ideas and passions, and the idea that people of faith have to keep it a private affair, my goodness, what does that mean? the only thing you are allowed to bring to the public square is secular ideas or things not motivated by faiths. look at the great movements of the country that led to writing wrongs in the country, and the civil rights movement all led by people of faith, and all people are created equal and have god-given rights, and the idea that we have to separate the faith is a dangerous idea, and we see the obama administration imposing the state's values now on churches, which is a bigger afront to the first amendment. >> and this is what was wrote, whether you would act on your faith in a certain way.

reagan's success was respecting the cultural sun conservatives right to live their lives as they saw fit. mr. santorum disrespect the vast majority of people that use birth control signals the end of the republic. so senator are you going to use the pulpit if you are president to rail against areas of our culture that you disagree with, or will given your comments about president kennedy go beyond that and make it a focal point of your presidency to act on your beliefs. >> i get that question all the time, why are you talking about the social issues? as people ask me about the social issues. >> you talk about this stuff every week, and it's not just in this campaign, sir, in this campaign you talk about it and i have gone back years where you have been in public life and you have made this a centerpiece of your public life. the notion that these are not

deeply held views, it's not just about the press. >> they are deeply held views, but they are not what i domin t dominantly talk about, david. you are talking about over the years, pulling out sentences from speeches. look at my record. i never wanted to impose any of the things you just talked about. these are my personal held religious beliefs, and in many forms that are in fact religious because i do speak in front of church groups and i do speak in these areas, i do talk about them. but there's no evidence at all that i want to impose those values on anybody else. there are important issues this country is confronted with right now and that's what i have been talking about. i will continue to talk about the role, for example, with the family with respect to the economy and how stable families and fathers involved in their families and out of wedlock birth rates are a serious

problem. this is not something that is some sort of religious idea. these are practical problems that we are dealing with in america and that's what i talk about on the campaign trail, and the problems that i am looking to confront are creating jobs, and reducing the budget deficit and getting to a balanced budget and making sure our country is safe around the world, and if you listen to my speeches that's what i talk about. i do talk about other issues, because like any other candidate out here, i take questions from people and people ask me all sorts of things, and unlike most politicians, i answer them. >> senator, before you go, on a lighter note, this is a big day, of course, the oscars tonight and the daytona 500. >> there you go. >> is that the one you will be watching? >> the daytona 500. >> you do have a dog in the fight. you are sponsoring a car. there it is. you will be watching this and not whether george clooney wins

the oscar for "the descendants." >> no, today we will be focused on how the number 26 car does, the ford fusion. i talked to the driver who starts way in the back of the pack, and i said for him to hang back in the back as long as you can, and let everybody crash and burn and move up and then try to win the race. >> there you go. senator santorum, thank you as always. one note to the viewers, because it comes up on social media from time to time, we have had a long-standing invitation to have mitt romney on the program, and up until now he has declined and we hope he will change his mind and come on for an interview in the debate process. coming up, jerry brown, and jan brewer square off on the 2012 campaign and the economy and gas prices. and arizona's primary is this

tuesday, and will governor brewer endorse a candidate? we will ask

coming up, a debate on the hot-button issues in the fall campaign. joining me, california's democratic governor, jerry

joining me now, the democratic governor of california, my home state, jerry brown, and arizona's republican governor, jan brewer. i want to talk about politics. tuesday is a big day in arizona with your primary. are you prepared to endorse a candidate in the field? >> well, i am, david. i have had my debate there in arizona, and i have looked over all the wonderful people that

have put themselves up for nomination, and i have decided that i am going to publicly endorse mitt romney. i think he's the man that carried the day, and i will get out there and work as hard as i know how to make sure that he wins arizona and work in other places of our country to see that he wins those places, too. >> what was decisive for you in the debate? >> i think that he handles himself very, very well, but more than that i think he has the pro-business background and the political history that i think that he would serve america the best of all the candidates. so it was a difficult decision, but i think mitt is by far the person that can go in and win. >> are you worried about how the race is going? it looks like he will grind it out if he can be the nominee, and there's so much anxiety about tone and the fact there's so much dissatisfaction with the field?

>> it's been an interesting campaign, one of which i have never ever was party to in the years that i have been in politics, but i think things will settle down and after super tuesday we will have our candidate, and then all republicans will get behind the candidate and will go to tampa -- >> rick santorum thinks he's in it for a lot longer than that? >> i think overwhelmingly, it will be decided by super tuesday. i know the pundits don't agree with me, but i will be out there working hard. >> governor brown, this is not your first rodeo. you were one that kept the fight going against bill clinton all the way to the convention, and do you see that happening on the republican side this year? >> i certainly think ron paul will keep going. the campaign is to illuminate the issues and give voters a real insight into the character of the candidates. yeah, i say keep going all the way. >> you talked to my colleague,

tom brokaw, and you said they were on a suicide mission, and what you were referring to? >> the recklessness with regard to iran. have there been no lessons learned? obama took over the country after it was in a gigantic mess, and now we're on the road to recovery, and what we're looking at is a reasonable man versus reckless man, and that's really becoming very evident through the republican primaries. >> how do you react to senator santorum's view of obama and the higher education? >> that's not how i would frame it. everybody should have a right to go to college and we should have technical training like they do in germany, and i would also emphasize, which mr. santorum doesn't, apprentice programs for sheet metal workers, i would like to see more of that and

that takes union and management cooperation, something the republican candidates seem very hostile to. >> and let me move to the issue of immigration. 34 years ago to the day you were on "meet the press," and we could not find the tape for igr nt to put up on the screen. you said i do believe the mexican american has been too invisible throughout the southwest and particularly in the southwest we open our hearts and minds to the culture and try to accelerate the melting pot and the paw ses that we can live together in harmony. here is "time" magazine, and on the cover it's saying hispanic americans will decide who the next president is, and they are not happy with the republican party. do you believe more strongly today what you said 34 years

ago? >> very much so. i think i may be the only governor, but i know i am the one that signed the dream act in california that will enable undocumented students that do well in high school to go to college, and pay in state tuition and get a scholarship, and there's controversy about that, but you can't round up 12 million people and ship them back across the border. we need to secure the border but we need immigration reform with a path to citizenship, and i think obama supports that and i certainly do. >> governor brewer, the view within the republican party is that demographically these candidates don't get the fact, what they say about immigration, and also the policy positions towards immigration, where your state is the flash point of it because of your very tough immigration law is a big part of the problem. >> let me remind you, you talk about arizona's very tough immigration law, and it mirrors

federal law. we, of course, all know that we are a nation of laws and we believe in the rule of law -- >> but there was a federal injunction that allowed whether it was reasonable suspicious, and the supreme court has to decide that piece? >> absolutely, and that will be decided in april, and we are looking forward to that determination. but we do need our border secured because we understand mexico is in terrible unrest and the whole state of mexico is being controlled by drug cartel and all of that crime is coming across the border, and arizona is the gateway. texas has done a good job with securing their borders, and california has done a good job, but we are the gateway and the recipients of our citizens being threatened by the drug cartels and living in fear and having to protect their property and their families, and drop houses being

in normal and stable neighborhoods, and prostitution and extortion of those people that are coming to work, and they are being tortured. why we can secure borders, everywhere, and why can't we secure our border? >> talking about securing the border, is this an area where you think the governor has fallen down, governor? >> no, the fact is these drugs generate billions in profit, and guns for america, go down to mexico and the dope comes up and the billions go down. it takes a collaborative work, and mexico and the u.s., we have to invest in mexico and give them all the tools we can to get rid of the cartels but build-up mexico so the employment can be there instead of forcing people across the border. >> why not testify on capitol hill about this arizona law -- >> you took me in a different direction there. i think it is ridiculous to invite me in front of the senate

judiciary committee? why didn't he ask me when all of this was on the forefront? >> you don't think it's on the forefront now? >> well, the day before, they are going to make that decision where the bill will be upheld or not sxrk not, and i believe it will be. president obama doesn't want to secure my borders. they could secure them on the arizona border, and instead what do they do? they send guns down there, fast and furious, to the cartels and then don't track them and then noble people like border patrol agent, brian terry gets murdered. 47,000 mexican citizens have been killed south of the border, and we just ignore that? mexico is arizona's largest trading partner. why doesn't the administration step up and do something to help mexico? we help all of these other countries. they do nothing? they don't secure our borders.

they send guns down there. they sue the state of arizona and me personally for doing the job they should do. it's frustrating, david. >> and the frustration has bubbled over in your interactions with president obama, too. this picture when you met him on the tarmac and appeared to have a confrontation with him over things in the book that was not liked, and you were invited to go to dinner, and you declined to go, and are you showing disrespect for the president of the united states? >> i hope not. i have other commitments. this event was a social thing. i am a governor and have priorities and i will be there monday when we meet and discuss policy. >> governor, i want to ask you before i let you go about the economy, and the graas prices. this is an average of course

over the course of the obama presidency, and now we're at february where it's over $3.50, and in some areas it's higher. what should be done at this point and what kind of an affect does it have a on your state's policy? >> well, we had gas lines and the price shot up and then down. we took steps and fuel efficiency, and mandating electric cars, and california is in the forefront and president obama adopted the california regulations and we have fog beyond that. you have to support mass transit, unlike the congressional republican bill, and we have to get real here. the instability in the middle east is driving up that price. if republicans get their way and stimulate their war in iran, gas prices will go to $2 -- not go to, but go up $2. long term, fuel efficient cars, and electric cars, and california will have a million of them in the next eight hours, and mass transit and land use

policies that minimize reliance on fossil fuel. >> is it less governorable now in california than it used to be? >> no. it's different, but i think it actually will be more governorable, and one thing we have in california that you don't have in the united states government, we can appeal to the people through the initiative process, so when we have a breakdown of the two parties we go directly to the people as the tie breaker. >> i want to underscore, governor brewer, you are endorsing governor romney for the presidency nomination, and you think he will wrap up the nomination by super tuesday, and you think it will be over? >> he's our man. we will work hard for him. >> thank you both very much. so nice to have you here. coming up, we will go inside the number in arizona and michigan which are both two days away, and will the out come have

a new call for somebody else to jump in the race? and which way are the independent numbers breaking? up next, our roundtable.

we are back with our political roundtable. "washington post" columnist, kathleen parker, and the man that goes inside the numbers, chuck todd and harold ford jr.

junior strategist to the mccain campaign, steve schmidt. you are all free and easy, because you are not in the trenches anymore, and you are free to be analytical. and happy about it. >> absolutely. >> chuck todd, we will put the numbers on the board. of 59 between arizona and michigan. this is how it looks in michigan, first, and then arizona. our poll has it tight in michigan, still. arizona, it's more of a going away contest for romney, and handicap what will happen? picked up jan brewer's endorsement here on the program. >> the wild card in michigan is the democratic vote. i have already seen multiple e-mail this morning from democratic folks michigan is going to ron paul. ron paul. everybody seems to believe that

romney does have a small lead. by the way, as far as delegates are concerned, arizona is winner take all. romney will win more delegates tuesday because he will win arizona and all the delegates. in michigan, we could have the unique situation where romney could win by a point or two but santorum could win more of the delegates. he will win more congressional districts. what does that mean for the race? we will let these guys talk about that. >> steve schmidt, what are you hearing as you look at the debate in michigan and you just heard senator santorum, and what will this come down to? >> if you look at the last week, the story has been the loss of momentum by santorum. he has been unable to drive a message because he's so wrapped up explaining all of his positions primarily on social issues. it takes him a paragraph to explain each sentence that he is explaining out on the train and it's done damage. the poll numbers have moved in mitt romney's favor in the last week, and it seems the momentum is on his side coming into the

race, and for sure this race will continue pass michigan and pass arizona and super tuesday, the change of the rules and the republican process guarantee two things, a long contest, but also a contest in today's media age where all the candidates are degraded. it's hard to go through the process with the 20 debates they have gone through here without their being significant erosion to their favorable ratings, and one of the things worrisome is for the republicans the support while the president's numbers increased. >> romney has his own problems connecting with social conservatives, and rick santorum has been a better job of that, but at what cost. you wrote in your column on wednesday something that i found interesting. not about his beliefs or his prudence and words. let me put a portion up on the screen. you wrote his biggest problems is he lacks prudence and picking his words. battles and his words.

the american people a. they are justified in worrying how such a prudence might translate. does he over shoot the talk on the campus by calling president obama a snob? >> yeah, he overshoots all the time. we just witnessed this when you were interviewing him. rick santorum cannot resist any question or any debate and he goes way too far. and the lack of prudence in selecting battles and choosing your words wisely is a big concern to republicans and even good friends of his who admire him and respect him and indeed love him can see this honestly as his biggest flaw. again, as he was answering your question, he went on and on and on, when the easy answer for him when he is talking about his faith is to say, look, you know, religion and -- state and religion are separate and we understand that, but faith for me is important and it helps me to be a better father and husband.

it should be inspiring rather than condemning. >> you are a politician of the south, and you understand the faith in politics, but he made a distinct point of saying, no, no, where kennedy got it wrong is he did try to separate it and has to be fused together and i think there's questions about where will that lead him as president? >> his answer was confusing. kathleen is right. church and state should be separate, but certainly one's faith motivates and influences how he or she behaves as a father, and even an anchor or politician or analysts. he will have a hard time answering that question going forward. i thought that most interesting question was about afghanistan. he admitted that a mistake was made, and it was inadvertent but we should not apologize. that's interesting. it is clear santorum's faith is important to him. this is what we are dealing with in afghanistan. if that happened here and somebody had not apologized to us, how would that have helped. it's a smart thing for the

commander in chief to apologize. i question is judgment. the question many americans would have is not the social issue positions which i think deserve a lot more probing, but can you trust him to negotiate with the russians and chinese? do you want him in that office determining military strategy in iran if we have to move forward in afghanistan or iraq? >> so the race from here, win or lose in michigan and arizona, chuck, i know you have been breaking down the numbers and they are important if you look at the delegate fight, and this is not just a math exercise here, the delegates matter. so take us through that as we put it up on the scene. >> there's lots of calls, and if mitt romney loses michigan, that will push a mitch daniels or christie to get in the race, and if you get in now eventually and

make all the filing deadlines, the most amount of delegates you could compete for is 1,036, and that's not enough to get the nomination, but the motivation would be to get enough delegates to become a player in the contested look. there are ways to do this, and i think if you don't like what is going on here and you think nobody is going to get a majority, you do not think any of these candidates will have a majority of the delegates by the end of the process. if you think nobody is going to get a majority and won't have a majority by the end of the process, you need to get somebody -- you immediate somebody else. you need to get in and win an election. >> if you talk about the prospect of a contested election -- contested nomination at the convention, it's important to remember that the delegates at this convention are going to be far to the right of the american electorate. also far to the right of the republican primary voter in most of the states. if it goes to a contested convention, it's anybody's guess

what happens. if you see santorum win in michigan, you will start to see panic beyond where it already is in the republican establishment, but as a general proposition, republicans are unhappy about the state of the race, and very unhappy and pessimistic about the chances to beat the president in the fall and it's a complete reversal of the condition from four or five months ago when people were very optimistic. >> what about the president as he looks at all of this? we have information about mitt romney's unfavorable as an independent among voters, and where you pointed out in an article quoted getting hit on the left and right whether it is taxes or time -- and harold, unfavorables boughten very high among independent voters. they will decide the election in the fall. >> the longer it goes the more damaging it has been. i was a believer that the longer primary for republicans wouldn't hurt them.

the more i think about it, the differences are clear. obama and clinton were both thought to be serious candidates for president, and republicans don't view santorum and establishments don't view him as a serious candidate for the fall, or a credible one. i am not as concerned about those numbers as romney as i am -- as romney may be. i think those all could turn again if romney is able to win michigan. if he loses michigan, steve and his team will have to find another person to run. i think santorum will be hard to turn around, and the only way you overturn that is to follow the map check laid out this morning. >> i would like for kathleen to look at romney off the stump when we come back. and we will review some of the top political stories trending and some of the news made here today as well as a little bit of hollywood right here at our today as well as a little bit of hollywood right here at our i'm al ways today as well as a little bit of hollywood right here at our looking out for i'm al small ways to be more healthy. like splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweeteners.

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a couple minutes left with the roundtable. we want to look at the trends tracker and what is breaking. romney versus santorum in michigan, and santorum staying in for the long run as he made it clear despite that governor brewer thinks it will be wrapped up on super tuesday. and romney talked about his wife owning two cadillacs among their cars. not exactly that connection moment he was looking for. >> a couple cadillacs.

mitt romney has a hard time connecting, and we can conclude that mitt romney for all of his good qualities is a dork, and sit that aside. but the big complaint is he cannot connect with ordinary americans, as it is put. we have to think of him -- republicans have to think of him and independents have to think of him as the doctor, the doctor that does not have a bedside manner. ultimately do you really care? the question is do you think he has the cure? and they have to put aside that he's not connecting and think if he has what it takes to fix the economy. >> this is oscar night, and the only one here that has real hollywood credentials is mr. schmidt. here is a scene, woody harrelson playing you with sarah palin. let's watch. >> we don't want you to talk to anybody until after the convention. because nobody knows anything about you. if you answer these ridiculous

allegations, you will be defining yourself in a -- >> but isn't the press defining me right now? >> no news story lasts more than 48 hours anymore. >> that's hollywood. that's just how it happened in real life, right? >> that's about how it happened in that scene. we were trying to tell her that we need to focus on her speech. she was going to have an int introduction to the $20 million people, and the next thing was the comeback narrative. >> he is is just plau sai about that fact that he is portrayed by woody harrelson. and this week i sat down with georgia congressman and civil rights leader, john lewis, and as well as lonnie bunch who is head of the museum about culture. that's