to balance the need to grow the economy with reining in these crippling debts. >> the ultimate conversation. >> it is a dangerous, dangerous dance. >> it is. big news out of afghanistan. just quickly, but first, though, north korea suspending major parts of its nuclear program in exchange -- >> again, oh, good. >> in exchange for food aid from the u.s. this comes two months after kim jong-un took over. >> don't hold your breath, but it's better than nothing. i want to get to afghanistan where this morning two american nato troops have been shot dead by a pair of gunmen. one of whom is believed to be an afghan soldier. if confirmed, it would mark the latest example of an afghan soldier or militant imposter killing a member of the international coalition. today shooting follows a period of heightened violence in the region after last week's koran burnings at a u.s. military base. the "associated press" is reporting more than 30 deaths has been linked to the

destruction of those islamic texts. that situation is still spinning out of control. let's get now to politics. despite taking second place in tuesday's primary, rick santorum is arguing that he is the real winner in michigan. the final breakdown from michigan shows that santorum will evenly split the state's 30 delegates with mitt romney. santorum says if mitt romney can't win decisively on his home turf, that his entire candidacy needs to be reevaluated. we won michigan last night by coming out of michigan with 15 delegates out of 30 delegates in mitt romney's home state. we went into his backyard. he spent a fortune -- the money he had no intention of spending, and we came out of there with the same number of delegates he does. we are in great shape going into this election. we are excited about what's going to happen on super tuesday. we went into michigan.

i don't know whether you guys are listening. we went into michigan, and we were able to pull off the impossible. >> here we go. >> you think he believes what he's saying? >> i don't in that sound bite. >> there was merit to what he said. look, a win's a win a win, we know that. but in reality, if somebody a month ago or two months ago said he's going to come within three points be outspent six to one and frankly to your point, had he not been mouthing off in the previous week -- >> he would've won. >> so he really shot himself in the foot. now you go, okay, it's all ohio. and my new name for mitt romney is weeble. remember the weebles wobble but they don't fall down. but ohio is it, it's the game. >> he's a weeble. you know the thing is -- i'm sorry, i'm going to piss some people off here. >> no, not you. >> it's over. it's over. no, it's over, if santorum had beaten romney in michigan, it

would have shaken the race up to such a degree that i think he could've given him a charge. he had his chance, he blew his chance. if i were rick i would be saying the same exact thing, i hate to upset people, but the fact is, romney has all the built-in advantages. he had one chance to take him down and he blew it. >> look, i agree with that. but i would put one asterisk on it and make one other comment. and the asterisk is ohio. the polls are obviously not favorable to romney at the moment. it's a key state. it's not his state. he's not from there. it'll be interesting to see what happens. my take away from what happened in michigan. i don't really care who won and who lost. it shows me that romney is a flawed candidate. he's in his home state, all the money in the world, he wins by three percentage points, comes in even in delegates against the guy who is so incredibly extreme and so far to the right and a guy who lost his last election by 16 percentage points.

i don't know why he's qualified frankly to be president. >> how does he answer? >> you say to yourself, this is what the republicans are -- >> the fact is we've been saying that around this table and i understand, steve, and i've been saying it for a long time the republicans have been doing poorly. willie, you look at the match-up between romney and obama. the gallup poll, mitt romney ahead of barack obama in the head-to-head national match-up. >> if you're betting money, he's the guy who is going to be the nominee. he's going to be the nominee. but what the split in delegates, the 15-15 split, the race is going to go on. santorum's going to win southern states, perhaps, on super tuesday, it'll go on. coming up, as tensions with iran rises, keith ellison is working to keep the u.s. from sliding into another war. he joins us next. and in the next few minutes, dan danny devito joins us onset.

we have no severe weather out there now. we're all safe and sound, but we're doing a lot of cleanup today and these are new pictures in from crossville, tennessee. and this was a pretty significant tornado. there were a few fatalities associated with this one yesterday afternoon. and a lot of cleanup. this is one of six different states that got hit by the tornadoes. again, these are new pictures coming in from crossville, tennessee. let's show you who got hit yesterday with the strongest tornado was the one that had 180-mile-per-hour winds in harrisburg, illinois. that killed six people. in all, about 12 fatalities, 100 plus people injured, branson missouri also with areas in northeast kansas outside of tope topeka. we can get these severe weather outbreaks one after another. it looks like damaging hail possible late tonight for areas north of little rock to memphis to st. louis, but it's as we go through the day friday, it should be a full-fledged tornado outbreak with a lot of damaging winds. that area in red is a moderate risk of storms. if you live in that area, you have to make sure you have your

weather radio in case you get warnings if any tornadoes head your way and make sure you have your safe room all set up for the severe weather season. it has arrived early. forecast for the rest of the country, still watching that snowstorm up in new england that will be picking up as much as 12 inches of know in areas like portland, maine. for the west coast, that storm system exiting your area, that'll produce the severe weather friday in the middle of the country. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪

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the number one objective is keeping iran from having a nuclear weapon. that's number one. i gave a speech several years ago, was invited to speak at the conference in israel to lay out what steps i would pursue to keep iran from becoming nuclear. i laid out seven key steps. we haven't done any of them. this president's failures in dealing with iran is probably just as the ones dealing with the economy. were calling out for support around the world. our president had nothing to say. even bill clinton would've said something. >> okay, joining us now from capitol hill, democratic representative from minnesota keith ellison. thanks for being with us this morning.

>> thank you for having me. >> there's a couple of foreign policy issues you want to talk about this morning. you heard mitt romney's criticism of the president. but if israel does attack iran, is there any way that we, the united states can avoid being involved? >> well, let me tell you, that's the possibility we need to avert. if you listen to martin dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs, the attack would be destabilizing and the attack would not achieve the objectives of trying to degrade or stopping the nuclear program. so we need to avert that possibility from the very beginning. that's why walter jones and i have come together and organized many of our colleagues in a letter to the president to really be strong on diplomacy and to go back to that effort that the president very wisely started, which is direct bilateral engagement with iran. >> congressman, obviously this -- this problem with iran goes back to 1979. >> before that.

>> since '79, they've been the epicenter of terrorism across the globe. george w. bush repeatedly frustrated in his efforts to try to negotiate something with iran. what can this president do at this point with a regime that has just been so uncooperative over the past several years? >> well, you know, the fact is no one says it's easy, it's just that going to war would be catastrophic and worse. i think diplomacy is not necessarily easy, but we have seen turkey and brazil get iranians to the negotiating table and to have them make real concessions. i think that an effort by the president to stick to it, stay to it, and not just be diverted by a few bumps in the road would prevail and would certainly benefit the rest of the world. look, we just got out of one war. we're trying to get out of another one. we do not need a third.

the fact is this would be incredibly unpopular among americans and it certainly would be damaging and an extra burden on our military, which is just now trying to recover from the last decade of war. i think diplomacy is the right option. >> yeah, no doubt about it. right now we would agree with you. you say, though, iran, a war with iran would be destabilizing. obviously you've got -- >> martin dempsey says that. >> martin dempsey says that, other policymakers say that. at the same time, there's no doubt that a nuclear iran is also destabilizing to the middle east because the saudis, the egyptians, other powers around the middle east would then try to go nuclear. how do you balance those two competing concerns? >> well, you know, the reason this is a tough issue is because of the complexities you identified. but the fact is, since 1979, as you mentioned, we probably have had about 45 minutes to an hour of direct bilateral negotiations with iran over this nuclear

problem and human rights and things like that. we need to put more time in. this is the right time to do it. dennis ross recently wrote a piece saying that iran is open to talk, perhaps. i think this needs to be tried given it well could work. it would be far better than the options like a nuclear iran or a war. the fact is, the israelis and the iranians have been in this low-grade war -- there was the attack on the scientists, then there was a retaliation on israeli diplomats. this thing is starting to bubble, and i think right now a robust, energetic diplomacy is what we need. >> congressman ellison, it's willie geist, we're all with you on this. we don't want to go to another war. that said, we can have all of the diplomacy we want, but if israel feels their very existence is being threatened, at some point, they're going to do something about it. if israel goes it alone in some form, what should the united states then do? >> well, let me tell you.

the fact is that there are israeli military leaders who say this is a bad idea. the israelis are not unified on this issue. there are a number of leading israeli generals and military experts that say an attack on iran would be destabilizing to them and the wrong way to go. so in my opinion, what the president has to tell to the israeli leadership is, look, if you're going to sign us up for a protracted military conflict, which you can start but cannot finish, we've got to be in on it from the very beginning and we say diplomacy is what we need to do now. that needs to be the relationship. the united states, strong esmil tear in the earth should never be in a position where it's not in control of its own destiny. the fact is, we cannot let an even ally, an important ally like israel drag us into a conflict that we think diplomacy can serve better at. >> congressman, mika, willie and i would like to apologize ahead of time for what we're about to do. >> uh-oh. >> donny deutsch, to you. >> we're not --

>> you're not going to draw a cartoon? >> donny deutsch. at this point to your point, israel is not united, but let's say they do get united, would israel ever proactively make a strike without the u.s.'s blessing? >> i certainly hope not. what that would mean is that the american soldiers would either have to take -- maybe even get boots on the ground without american policymakers ever having made that decision for those american soldiers. we cannot let another nation decide the fate of the american people. the fact is, i got constituents to explain to in the fifth district of minnesota, and i can't tell them well, your son and daughter have to go to a war, another one in the middle east because another country decided to go to war. i just can't explain that to people. i think we've got to prevail on our ally. our important and historic ally that if they're going to drag us into it, we've got to be in on it from the beginning. >> congressman, got a quick

question about the state of affairs for muslim-americans. obviously this past summer, we saw ugly scenes down near ground zero. we also hear other people saying muslim americans have more freedom than most across the globe. >> that's true. >> as the only muslim american in congress right now, what is the state of things for muslim americans? >> you know, very good mostly, but of course, there are some occasional incidents that are disturbing. and aren't just an affront to muslims, but to the idea of religious freedom. but by and large, i've got a lot of friends telling me, their son got admitted to stanford, their daughter's joining the military. i've got friends throwing off airplanes for no reason and calling filthy names and having their mosques desecrated. but by and large, this is the best country in the world to

practice your faith including islam. >> i was going to ask you that. for muslimi ins around the worls it still the city shining on the hill? you hear one of the most compelling stories i heard was after the misery of abu ghraib, they asked one of the people tortured there what did they want for restitution? did they want money? they said, no, give me a green card to the united states. and everything will be fine. that's kind of compelling argument for. >> well, there's a lot of reason for hope and optimism. in america, despite the whole ground zero thing and the koran burning thing, the fact is, you can worship freely in america. i mean, there are other countries, muslim majority countries where if you're the wrong sect. if you're a sunni muslim in iran, you're going to have a tough time, if you're a shia muslim in saudi arabia, you may not feel a fully citizen of that

nation. but in america, shia, sunni, whatever you want, it's up to you. you practice as you choose. >> thank you very much. >> thanks a lot, congressman. >> thank you. >> when we -- >> a pretty damn good place we've got here. >> great message. great message. and i hope when the congressman is in new york he'll come onset. >> when we come back, danny devito joins us onset. i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help

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♪ why don't you have one of these? you don't even have a mustache. >> okay. that's it. >> what? i thought we made a deal last night. >> yes, we did. and i said i wouldn't drop down any more trees. >> and i said i was going to keep an eye on you. i'm starving, what's for breakfast? breakfast is overrated. >> that was a clip from dr. seuss the lorax starring danny devito. my kids are dying to see this.

joining us now is danny devito. good to have you on the show. love it. >> i do too. i had a great time doing it. it was like when i saw -- big fan of seuss, i've got three kids. >> yeah, me too. >> you read all the books and everything. and it was about a year and a half ago, the producer of the movie brought the beautiful picture of that furry guy and i recognize him, of course, from the balks. and he said, how would you like to? and i said, oh, my gosh, my voice coming out of the lorax, it's going to be amazing. plus, i get to come out of a stump in the beginning of the -- >> wow. >> everything an actor dreams about. >> there you go. who didn't read seuss books to their kids and not every time, every time think this stuff is brilliant, and see it differently every time? >> yeah, it's a great thing. all of his books are really

magical and, you know, the thing about it, you go from reading the picture books and if you have children, you understand this where you start with colorful pictures and everything. the juxtaposition of the different plates. and you move into some words, a few words, and then you go right into -- ready to go right into the rhymes. and that really peppers it and gives interest to pick up a book and think about one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. this that, and the other thing. we get in the lorax, we get to do the opening, like, salute to everybody in rhyme. so it's really cool. >> what's the animation gig like for an actor like you who has been on camera himself his whole career. chris rock had a funny bit at the academy awards where he said it's not that hard. i recite a line, they give me millions of dollars.

>> well, it all depends on your commitment to the part. in other words, you can go in and do it either way. you can walk in and just phone it in. or -- and you know, and walk out. just say it -- i kind of like giving them lots and lots of choices. so i go in and do it a little energetic or less, and sometimes you're trying to find the meanings. you're trying to find what you want in the -- and how you want him to act. you don't want to be always harsh on him. you have to manipulate him in some way and find a way to reach him. so it's fun to go into the booth and try it many ways. we have a director who is talking to you. and i did it in other languages too. i did it in italian -- >> what? >> no. >> come on now. >> i did it in italian, i did it in spanish too. >> the whole movie? >> the whole movie. my part. i did it in german. >> no, you didn't it. >> and i did it in russian. >> no you didn't. >> with my voice.

and here's -- >> i want to hear some. >> no, the thing is -- give me a break here. the thing about it, i had two coaches with me from the countries and the technician. what happens is you take each line -- i know how i did it in the english, right? so what you're going to see on friday, which is great, and it's -- i mean the whole movie's great. but the idea's you take it phonetically and take each line because it took me longer to do the other languages. and you get the line first. like whatever it is, german, or in russian or whatever it is and you did one at a time, took me like six days to do the russian. and all day sitting at the studio and go over and go over it and go over it until you try to do it without an accent. and then you bring in the other stuff, you bring in your own danny stuff in. the gruffness or the this or the that. and you do -- you get to say

stuff like didn't you just see me come out of that stump with the lightning and the thunder -- and you get to say it in another language. i can't wait to see it in all the other languages. >> you're shattering our image of animation where you stroll into the studio for an hour -- >> chris rock's a funny man. that was cool. >> what is this animation technique? it's kind of beautiful to look at. >> it's gorgeous. >> i'm not too technically savvy on that. i know that they take my voice and they draw it all on a computer and they do it in a 3d way and it's really beautiful. when you see it, you're going to -- it'll blow you away. it's like really bright and colorful and beautiful, and the music's great. tailor swift's in it and zac e efron and ed helms.

and betty white. >> come on. >> she's an inspiration that woman. >> and you're teaming up with all of those folks. the co-chair of read across america. >> yeah. >> it's wonderful. >> i think it's really important to -- if you have something, a vehicle like this, this is a really great showy kind of thing, this movie, everybody's going to go see it. i think it's a really great way to launch into education and to show people to -- like everybody in all the different walks of life whether you're in to finance or into news reporting or acting or whatever to take that as a signal that you can -- or a mantle that you can go around and say, well, did you see that picture? this is what they're really talking about. and this is what's going on in the country today and in the world today. basically. and maybe it can be an inspiration to young kids.

>> you're one of the snobs that think people should go to college. >> i'm one of those snobs. i am like so -- my children, all three of them, one -- two graduated from brown, one graduated from overland. my youngest daughter got her masters. i think education is like -- if you can do it, if somebody can help you with it, get to more education, the better. don't just settle for, you know, you've got to contribute. you never know who's going to come up with the idea that's going to take care of the rest of us. >> that's right. >> education is so important. >> danny devito, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> you can catch "the lorax" in theaters tomorrow. i can't wait. >> yeah. >> i cannot wait. >> i'm happy. >> thanks, danny. >> thanks a lot. >> more "morning joe" in a moment. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life.

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most new jobs are created in start-ups and small businesses. so let's pass an agenda that helps them succeed. tear down regulations that prevent aspiring entrepreneurs from getting the financing to grow. expand tax relief to small businesses that are raising wages and creating good jobs. >> i want to help small business, big business, middle-size business, i want to make america as i said the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs and innovators. >> that was president obama and then mitt romney talking about small businesses. a central message on the campaign trail, and joining us now is the host of msnbc's "your business." j.j. and her team spent time talking to small businesses across the country to find out what they're thinking about what's going on in washington,

and perhaps which candidate really has the answer for small businesses. there are 27 million of them across the country. what did you find on the road? >> you know what's incredibly annoying to me -- >> you ran a small business. >> yeah. of course, a big idea. tell me if you feel -- >> what's incredibly annoying, donny deutsch, yes, but go ahead. >> beyond donny. what's incredibly annoying is that all politicians say small business and we're going to help small business and this gives the impression that they're helping someone on main street. but small business as defined by the sba is business less than 500 people. and so so much of what they talk about helps big small businesses. so they talk about corporate tax reform and that's going to help small business. that's not going to help the guy who has four employees, that's going to help the guy who has 300 employees. and so there needs to be a distinction between a big small business and a small, small business. and what's going to help them. >> so what will happen?

what did you find will help the small business that has four employees? they're struggling to stay open. >> there are a lot of them. >> we have this focus group of businesses across the country, different sizes, people with different political leanings, and what i got the most from these people is, a, the economy, get the economy back rolling, because what i need are customers coming in the door. there's lots of talk about lending and tax relief, just get the economy rolling and we will be doing better. and interesting thing i also heard from a lot of these people is i can't find good people to work for me. which, right? all we hear about is all these people. >> that's a small business. that's the biggest problem with small businessm mentality. that's what keep small businesses from turning to big businesses, they don't hire people better than them because they want to keep control of

them. >> absolutely for sure for some people. though there is absolutely an issue. particularly in the tech world right now. there are all these people out there looking for jobs. if they'd spent the last two years learning how to program, there's a job for them. i assure you, you go to san francisco, anywhere in silicon valley, there are jobs. >> one of the reasons we heard why the bush tax cuts needed to be extended and again is because they help small businesses. what did you find talking to small business owners about the bush tax cuts. important to them or not? >> so that is -- there are two ways to look at that, right? one of the reasons corporate tax reform isn't going to help a lot of small businesses because a lot of small businesses don't pay corporate tax, they're paying individual taxes, and that's where this comes in. so for people right on the edge there, the issue is they're going to be paying more taxes, they're paying individual taxes and that's how they pay their business tax and they're not going to invest as much in their business. true, true for the people who reach that level. a lot of small businesses don't

reach that level. so there are a lot of people who it's not going to frankly affect. who are running small businesses. >> so what else are small business owners looking for? from government. because that is all politicians talk about. >> it's all politics because it's a nice thing to go out there and help main street, help the person who is hiring your neighbor. people, a lot of the problems are on the local level also. so there are so many regulations. and again, donny, you probably know this from when your company was smaller. the amount of time you spend working on paying your taxes. i think the number is something like small business owners spend 36% more on complying with tax regulations than big businesses. so the amount of time you spend, it's crazy. here's an example of a small business who has an office in new york and an office in san francisco and an office in l.a. >> to the average person, that

doesn't sound like a small business. >> in this world, it is. they have 12 employees, they happen to be in different places. they spent, i talked to this guy yesterday. he spent time figuring out how to pay his new york city taxes, new york state taxes, new york commuter tax. the amount of time it takes to do that, that's time you're spending not marketing your company. >> you know, i can't name the number of times that when i was in office people were asking me for regulatory relief. i never had rich guys or women asking me going cut my taxes, cut my taxes, they figured out how to handle that themselves. but it was the regulatory red tape you were talking about that just killed their productivity. >> it's maddening. maddening. >> you can catch "your business" sundays at 7:30 a.m. with j.j. ramberg. thank you so much. >> thanks, guys. >> we'll be right back. i'm freaking out man, he's on my back

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ing. tomorrow, we are taking the show on the road to new jersey for our brewing together series on education. our guests include governor chris christie, daniel malloy, and michelle rheee. >> i'm coming. >> i'm not invited, but i'm coming.

>> speaking of education, what have we learned today? >> oh, yeah. ok, guys-- what's next ?

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your finances can't manage themselves. but that doesn't mean they won't try. bring all your finances together with the help of the one person who can. a certified financial planner professional. cfp. let's make a plan. ♪ >> hey, welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned we somehow went three hours without showing the very best video of the day. this is a lithuanian rock star. hey, guys, you got me?

>> oh, no. >> the seas part for the rock star. >> you can't do that. >> no one was hurt. >> he got up, he staggered a little bit, but he is okay. >> what did you learn, donny? >> ten seconds, this is the trickle down theory. if joe makes money and saves on taxes, he buys the boat, and the hat maker makes money, the groupies will get their new dresses. it all works. >> i would like to know why that's not mika on the boat and men waiting for her. >> i have the other one with mika