figure out which kan fcanadian football team is the best for tim tebow. >> i think he'll end up in jacksonville. what else? >> how about way too early with tim tebow. >> do you like waking up in the middle of the night to do news? it's all yours. >> scones for people who are still asleep. >> i never understood the scone. it's like a piece of stale bread. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ news from the nfl, peyton manning, know where he's going? any idea? denver broncos. signing with the denver broncos. glad to see something good finally happen to somebody in that family, huh? about time by god. peyton manning will be the quarterback for the denver

broncos, replacing tim tebow, their current quarterback answering the question, what would jesus do? they would sign peyton manning. >> to big sports news, peyton manning agreed to join the denver broncos. that means denver will trade tim tebow after one year as a starter. even kim kardashian was like who dumps a proathlete that quickly. >> welcome to "morning joe." that is big news, mika. >> it is. who does that? good morning. it's march 20th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have msnbc and time magazine senior political analyst, mark halperin and editor affairs, john heilemann along with willie, joe and me. >> we have the team back together. >> we do. >> we do. >> the family is around the

table for breakfast. >> all we need is mike barnicle here. >> no. >> he's on administrative leave after what he wore on friday. >> he's been placed on it. >> i like that. >> mika, as you know, this goes all the way back, if you can go back to the old nfl area -- >> right. >> orange footballs. >> with the orange footballs that when ever sports writers wanted to get input on what happened on a story based on a christ centered quarterback, they go to willie geist. can you believe this happened? >> yes. yes, i can. >> he said i'm going to get a guy that is as old as me. because this young kid, he's crowding my space. >> he had to grit his teeth and watch tebow win game after game

after game and take the team to the playoffs. then along came peyton manning. elway wants him from the beginning. it came down to san francisco, probably and denver. manning felt he had the best chance to win and a system to win with. they will trade tebow. he believes it will be jacksonville or miami. jacksonville is tebow's hometown. a lot of trouble filling that stadium. he would go a long way. >> he would part the river, walk across it, go to the stadium. >> the river of people. >> that would be wonderful. >> and pull in all those gators fans. >> if you are tim tebow and thank god he has a christ centered life. somebody who didn't might be bitter. look what he did turning that team around. remarkable. the players loved him. they respected him and followed

this kid. first of all, but secondly, what if you are the quarterback of the san francisco 49ers? san francisco, they are going to have to deal with that stink bomb for a year to come. how do you recover if you are a quarterback -- >> who had a great year. >> -- who had an amazing year. he was taken to the cusp of the super bowl and treated with no respect. when it comes to manning, all bets are off. five years and $95 million. those numbers in the nfl don't mean anything. the contracts don't mean anything. >> whatever. we don't care. >> they have to pay that out. >> right. >> the nfl, you can send them to the glue factory. does that include -- >> the neck brace. >> that's mean. >> they spent a lot of money for a guy that has 3% range of

motion in his neck. >> his doctors cleared him. he says he's ready to play. >> what is the chance he starts the whole season. >> play the whole season? >> yeah. >> i'd say it's pretty good. he'll start the first game. >> i'm excited about seeing tebow more in jacksonville. he will fill the seats. >> there are more god-fearing people in florida. >> they have a young quarterback in jacksonville. i think they will take that problem. >> i know you love to talk sports, the front page of the new york times, this is good news, right? >> yeah. >> they have to pay. >> it's possible. >> it's like an nfl deal. they have to pay out $60 million. maybe they don't. they survive, right?

>> and maybe turn the page now. >> yeah. all right. >> hopefully. >> no big mets fans here. >> i'm a mets fan. >> what do you think? >> it's a great deal for them. they avoided the charges they were inside. they had inside information, they can pay it in three years. it's a great outcome. >> it's a turn the page movement. their uncertainty is killing the team. >> the new york post says it with all the subtly of -- i won't say. fred wins, fans lose. i guess a lot of people in the new york post room were cheering for them to sell the team. fred, as far as we are concern ed is a great guy. we love him. >> he's very nice. >> he's wonderful. he's had an exception for taking care of our men and women in uniform. >> after they come home. >> i have heard him talk more about that than baseball. >> that's what he loves. >> i like the guy and i'm glad

they have been able to turn the page. >> today is a big day in illinois, right? >> let's head to illinois. the voters hit the polls. a win for romney could cement his front-runner status. a santorum victory could boost that romney can't rally the conservative base. santorum is on the defensive over these comments he made in illinois yesterday. >> you need a candidate who is going to be a fight er for freedom, who is going to get up and make that the central theme in this race. it is the central theme in this race. i don't care what the unemployment rate is going to be. doesn't matter to me. my campaign doesn't hinge on unemployment rates. there's something more foundation going on here. >> okay. romney seized on that comment trying to capitalize on santorum's remarks. >> i'm concerned about the

people out of work. one of the people running also for the republican nomination said he doesn't care about the unemployment rate, that doesn't bother him. i do care. it bothers me. i want to get people back to work. i'm concerned about those out of work. one of the reasons i'm running is to get the expertise in place. get a strong economy. >> last night, santorum tried to walk back his original comments. take a listen. >> what i said was the unemployment rate didn't matter what it was between now and election time. the fundamental issue causing the unemployment and economic distress in your country is the fact the government is imposing their will and mandating things on people and creating a yolk on businesses to make it hard to employ. if you want to solve the problem, solve the tax and gove government oppression problem. one is a cause of the other. it's not that unemployment isn't important, you have to get to the root cause of what's causing

the unemployment. >> a long day for santorum yesterday. it started on this show, fooisy interview. then him wading into the battle with romney that's plagued romney whether or not he cares about the 99% or the unemployed. is this bad for him? >> no. first of all, it's not. i think most people that listened yesterday understand. you know, early they accused us of engaging in gotcha politics when we were actually saying back what he said in great detail. but, in that case, that is a case of gotcha politics. i think these guys that cover it day in and day out. when romney says something that reflects a larger truth, john heilemann, it's obvious, oh, that's a faux pas. >> it's not what he meant. >> jeb bush's campaign, somebody

said what are you going to do for black people. he said probably nothing. he said i'm worried about all flori floridans. in this case, it's much to do about nothing. >> i agree. i think santorum cares about the unemployment rate. if you listen to him over the course of these months, he's had a problem staying on an economic message and not getting drawn into social issues that have been unproductive for him. he talks about the economy all the time. he has a plan, in his view of what would fix the economy. he's immune to economic concerns and savvy enough to know unemployment matters. i care less. he was trying to say i care less about the unemployment rate than the broader picture of what's going on in america. >> is it like when romney said

he doesn't care about poor people? we all picked that apart and jumped on it as if it was really big news. remember that comment? do any of you? >> of course. he said he's not concerned about the very poor. he said i like being able to fire people. he would argue there's context. >> that poor people comment, that does reflect a larger truth. that reflects a campaign strategy that i'm focusing on building up the middle class. i do remember that. that was more concerning. some of these things romney said, not quite as much. but, santorum is bringing up a bigger point here. he can obviously speak well for himself, at length. the bigger point santorum is making is, you know, you people in the media and politicians and pundits are obsessing on the

month-to-month-to-month unemployment rate. whether it goes up .5%, make that makes a difference but the bigger issue is, ek nconomic freedom versus centralized control. that's what i want to talk about instead of whether it's -- yeah. i think that was also, most rational voters are going to look and say okay, i get it. that's what he's talking about. >> i detest these statements. i think it's horrible for the media world. rick santorum, more days than not does not drive a message that dominates the news. he opens up to the focus on little things. >> that's the bigger issue with rick. he complains about people talking about contraception or other issues. he doesn't drive it like the champion of all champions. in 1988, george h.w. bush, he's the environmental president,

he's in a classroom. great campaigns drive the message. they dominate the news cycle and give you no choice. they cover this idea. >> even in the media climate where we live where little things get made into big things you could dominate it by doing one great event today that drove a message. for some reason, his campaign and the other republican campaigns have chosen not to do that. >> not good. >> i guess not. that opens you up to having this out of context, totally ridiculous. >> get drawn out. >> and amplified. >> yesterday, we asked santorum whether or not the campaigning was sidetracked with contraception and the church. dealing with that issue, his wife, karen santorum defended her husband insisting he would not make changes to contraception laws if he becomes president. >> when rick was asked the

question he said these are my personal beliefs. the press kept asking him about the issue again and again. it's not about contraception, it's about personal freedoms and the government should not be making people go against their conscience. rick is a great guy. he's supportive of women. he's surrounded by very strong women. women have nothing to fear when it comes to contraceptives, he will do nothing on that issue. >> they need to bring her out more. that is one of the great ironies. he's had strong women in his life, his entire life. >> i take this point they have made, we are right to criticize him for chasing shotty objects. there are a million ways not to answer questions if you want to. the problem on this issue, i'll say, he has been consistent saying he has personal views and

what he would do legislatively. if you are against contraception, you are in the 2% or 1% of americans. people do look to character and say can i identify with this person. if you are in the tiny sliver of america that believes it's immoral to practice contraception, you are going to turn off voters. >> in 2006, he was clear. this is what i personally believe, but this is how i vote. i voted title 10. in 2011, in iowa, he did have wha a lot of politicians do. you say something to your audience. you say, it matters to me. i'm going to talk about it. it is wrong. blah, blah, blah. if he stated 2%, nobody would have noticed it. it's a bigger issue. this guy can't stay on message. yesterday was a great example. i talked to him. i said we have to ask these

contraception questions because we have hammered you and it would be wrong for me to have you on and pretend like nothing was said. thanks for answering. now, let's move on to the economy. you are going to talk about what he wants to talk about. no. he wouldn't do that. he wanted to circle back and fight. are you saying i'm pigeon holing you? i'm not pigeon holing you. let's move on. it's just like he won in iowa then went to new hampshire and picked a fight with college students on gay marriage. he lacks that ability to let the punch go and move forward. >> he is a fighter, i think. he wanted to settle each argument and perhaps go back to each argument. he said it was not about contraception but personal freedom. that is your core message.

the economic questions are about freedom, economic freedom, personal freedom. if he can stay on that, he'll be okay. we'll see what happens tonight in the state of illinois where romney, according to many polls has a big lead. >> yeah. let's take a look at those. romney is up by 15 over santorum. this is illinois. romney is up by 14, i mean what do you make of those numbers? >> these are -- i personally like ppp a lot. they get it right more than wrong. they are automated polls. there have been more traditional polls, john, that have showed the race being closer a week ago. >> it's a week later. you know, i have the same kind of questions about the polls you do. if you look at illinois and the kind of republicans that get elected statewide in illinois, romney is more that kind of

republican than santorum is. think about mark kirk. he's more the mold of romney. they tend to be more moderate republicans who do well in illinois. think about the history of illinois governors has not been the history of far right governors. i think romney is more suited to the state than santorum. doesn't mean santorum can't win. you will be more surprised if he wins than romney. >> there's a premise if santorum got romney one-on-one, he had a chance to beat him. the premise gingrich's withdrawal or collapse would help santorum. it wasn't obviously true. there are a lot of gingrich voters. he was speaker of the house, they will go to romney. that myth may explode. people say well, if he gets them one-on-one, he can beat them

thchlt is basically one-on-one. a fair amount of gingrich supporters go to romney rather than santorum. >> in 2008, tim russert would always say barack obama would overperform by 5% in the exit polls. at the beginning of the night and going into the campaigns, we thought barack obama was going to do well and hillary would close it late in the evening. we have a similar situation here now where you get the exit polls at 5:00 and know mitt is going to underperform. here, the news is mitt is going to win by 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. can we not predict this is going to be closer tonight? >> so much of the vote is around chicago. santorum has not driven a good message for that part of the state. >> that makes a lot of sense. >> unless there's low turnout and there's good weather so it's

less likely. romney has a chance to win this big enough to be convincing and compelling. >> if he wins big, what does the calendar look like in the future? is it great news for him? i have it made? >> if he wins big, if romney wins big, it becomes two things the romney people have argued that become much more accepted. one is santorum can't get to a majority and romney, can. then wisconsin in a few weeks becomes almost the whole deal. if an sore um can't win in wisconsin. if he can't win tonight or wisconsin romney has it wrapped up. >> i think santorum does well in wisconsin. >> you have louisiana this weekend where santorum and gingrich do well. in april, it's a lot of states where romney does well. maryland, district of columbia, connecticut. the only good states in that

group in april for santorum, pennsylvania, which is his home state and wisconsin where he can pull off an upset. if he can get through april, may is a better month for santorum. the race moves to the southern and plains states where he's done better. it's a good run for romney throughout april. santorum needs to win something other than pennsylvania to continue to demonstrate viability. romney is in good shape. h he's made it through his hard part of the calendar. >> over the next month or so, santorum loses support and money? if romney is not getting to the 1144, why would santorum get out of the race. >> if the win is big enough tonight, the romney people say he can get there. the other thing is, you know, the press is schizophrenic. we love the race and competition. on the other hand, we have this manic desire to say to people,

why aren't you getting out of the race. it's what's happening to gingrich. you can see the effect of that. if romney wins in illinois after florida and michigan, it's the narrative of the santorum campaign. it will be tougher if he couldn't win what is a one-on-one race. that was the big premise. >> we'll see tonight. >> i look at russell's note this morning. >> russell lovelady. >> the lovelady is in. one quote after another from illinois republicans who say on the record, i'm not excited about romney. the guy doesn't move me. these aren't the republican governors in jail. these are the ones on parole. they are just not excited about him. they are not even hoping for -- in jail they say nice things because they hope for a pardon. the fourth illinois governor, blagojevich is the fourth in

jail right now. is that right? >> there's a tad bit of a problem there. >> four in jail right now. i mean, that's -- e-mailed me and said term limits mean something completely deferent in illinois. >> something to be proud of. >> i can't understand why santorum went to puerto rico for three days rather than illinois. >> it's winner take off. why he didn't just go to illinois and camp out. >> the thing is about rick, he said yesterday when he came on the show and said i won ten states. he won ten states. this guy really was. i have a good friend that has been with him from the very beginning. the day of the election in iowa, invited basically the whole campaign team to go eat lunch. all two of them came out. we had lunch.

>> a $34 bill. >> they won iowa that night and nine other states. that's unbelievable. it is the opposite of the romney machine, which, again, you talk to these people in illinois, they are just -- people are not excited. i have a few people on twitter who say nasty things about me. they are excited about romney. >> only a few? >> no, that say things about romney. it's how i tell. >> okay. all right. you have done good. now it's time to wrap it up. the republicans do unveil their budget today. we are going to talk to paul ryan about his budget proposal. >> i haven't seen the video yesterday. >> we'll get a response from gene sperling. also, congressman air schock of illinois joins us with eugene robinson. up next, the top stories of the morning. first, bill karens with a check on the forecast.

bill? >> the unbelievable warmth continues today from the great lakes through new england. yesterday, can you belief it was 79 degrees in hartford, connecticut. unbelievable. very little snow left in the mountains of northern new engla england. it's unheard of for the middle of march. another day in the oven, 77 in buffalo. mid-70s everywhere. if you get enough sun, someone will have a shot at 80. we are watching rain in texas around san antonio and austin. it's raining hard around dallas. expect airport delays. chicago, today is the sixth day in a chicago. everyone is heading out to vote there. incredible stuff. all our friends on the west coast are finally starting to warm up, too. washington, d.c., 75 and sunny this afternoon. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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♪ 29 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." time to take a look at the morning papers. we start with "the new york times." this is interesting. the consumption of added sugars by children contradict beliefs. they found young people got a majority of their sugar calories from foods, not soft drinks. also, they got most of their sugar at home, not school or elsewhere. family income made no difference in sugar income. we'll talk about this and why this is the case. >> "the los angeles times" says there is a shift in fast food

royalty. wendys dethrone d burger king. five guys burgers and fries is the fastest growing chain. back when i could eat hamburgers like that, five guys, just great. >> it is really good. i have always been a burger king guy. the fries are the weakness. i always said copy mcdonald's. rip it off. you have the flame broil ed burger. make them crispier. i grew up on big macs and i love mcdonald's, but my meal, like my campaigns, i would pick up like 40 pounds. i would go wendy's drive-through and get the single with cheese, everything but tomattomato, frid a frosy.

>> frosy. >> i never got the chili. >> governor kasic likes the chili. >> do you know what a burger is? is there one in the northeast? i haven't seen one. any what a burgers in the northeast? >> i don't think so. >> you poor souls. >> it would be over the moment inand out burger went international. massacre. >> why won't they do that? inand out burger is a great chain. >> they are trying to cut down. >> why don't they -- >> the family cares about quality control. they think the minute they cross the rocky mountains it would go to heck. >> the real question you'll appreciate as a southerner, why there's not a chick-fil-a -- >> that's the best food chain.

there's one in nyu, but you have to go into the dorm. we can't get in there. >> same thing with washington, d.c. i used to like dress up in american university t-shirts to get into the chick-fil-a at american university. chick-fil-a for northerners that don't understand -- >> that's the best. >> for yankees, go south, have a chick-fil-a, a crystal. >> okay. >> if there's anyone from chick-fil-a watching, i would like an answer. you would be bill nars. >> without a doubt, top to bottom, the best employees, top class employees. they have never gotten an order wrong or failed to say thank you. >> very polite. >> they are, without a doubt, the top. >> see if we can get steve rattner to have a merger.

the whole fast food landscape would be transformed. >> they need chick-fil-a. again, i'm a crystal guy. holy cow. >> you know you're not. >> the most i have had is two. >> if you have to go, ask about -- we haven't covered that yet. >> let's get there. >> mike allen is standing by. what should i ask him about? >> ask him about it. >> it's a london thing, right? >> coming to d.c. >> is it really? >> i'm thinking you forgot at chick-fil-a, you forget the waffle fries. >> those are good. >> wendy's -- there's something -- i can still eat chi chick-fil-a. >> you cannot. >> it's chicken. it's good for you. >> you can't close your jacket after you eat that. >> grilled salads.

>> if you ever had the peach -- >> it's gross. poison. >> the crystal. try it friends. go south. buy it. thanks, mike. what's next. mike allen. let's go to newt gingrich, your headline. newt's end. what do you mean? >> yeah. this is really bad news for the gingrich campaign in addition to losing contests they are going to report heavy debt according to gingrich insiders. he's having money problems. jonathan martin talked to gingrich folked owed $27,000 going back to january. v volunteers in florida not being paid for their work. you peel back the gingrich campaign and on the road he looks like a happy warrior. he and his wife love zoos. he's made trips to zoos. he saw the cherry blossoms and

the wright brother's home. he has a traveling tour. at the headquarters you have a very dysfunctional management style not doing the basic things of campaigns. they sent yard signs to michigan where he wasn't in play. in florida, they didn't have any of the ground game they needed. at the moment, you have newt gingrich, his campaign manager and the rest of the campaign is in shambles. he has all the looks of a campaign. newt says he's going to tampa. >> the campaign is slowly expiring. >> why is that? because newt, mark halperin had a national following, a national name id. he finished second in alabama and mississippi. he finished ahead of romney. aren't there some states he could win on the calendar? >> if he wouldn't win those two, there aren't a lot left. maybe north carolina.

it's an unforgiving business. as soon as the narrative is you are out of it, donations drop. coverage drops. it's a cycle. less press coverage, less money drives you down. >> you fadeaway. >> why not go to lunch? >> right. >> if you are moot, why get out? >> he needs to win a couple more states or do better to have a big voice at the convention. it may be why he's staying in. >> there are going to be some states where romney comes in third. newt comes in second. pick up as many delegates as you have. go into tampa. it's your last campaign. why get out? what's he going to do? huh? huh? i love those places, but if you are newt, this is your last campaign. see it after the end.

>> there's a lot more good lunches to have. more museums and zoos. things to see. >> cherry blossoms. >> he's got a sugar daddy. >> that's true. super pacs. >> mike, does he? >> there are indications he might be willing to put in more. it doesn't help you with the campaign itself paying people, but it keeps gingrich afloat in these states. he's hopeful about louisiana saturday. if he doesn't do it there -- >> he'll do well in louisiana. it's not like gingrich is chasing ronald reagan and margaret thatcher. anything can happen in politics. you act shocked that a guy whose been speaker of the house, "time" magazine's man of the year, he led a revolution to balance a budget should soak off

because he's chasing a guy -- i'm not saying he's a hero but why go home? he's chasing romney, a guy nobody can get excited about. anything can happen. am i wrong? >> he's chasing a guy that's got more votes than he does in the party. it's hard to see a path for him. he can shine in tampa. >> it was hard to see a path for santorum sitting at 2% in iowa. >> i was trying to imagine the race where you are chasing thatcher and reagan. >> that would be awesome. >> by the way, you know, i love reagan. thatcher would chop him up into little pieces. >> mike allen, thanks. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪

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we mentioned at the top of the show, but if you are just waking up, manning mania is about to meet tebow mania. denver broncos is his new team. the deal will be worth $95 million over five years. it's a rare day we do hockey on this program. >> for good reason. >> new york rangers, new jersey devils don't like each other a lot.

this is three seconds into the game. three seconds. they drop opening face-off and all drop the gloves. you have three or four fights going on simultaneously on the ice. >> what set that off in. >> it's an old rivalry. there were hits. the first team, the clinch. playoff from the eastern conference. >> the fights, they are bleeding. >> do they actually hit each other? >> it's not fake blood. >> they start fighting in the beginning. isn't there something theatrical about that? >> they are punching them in the nose. it's real fighting. you know nothing about nhl. >> up next, mika's must read page including one from paul ryan about the new republican budget. we'll be right back. today, we stand against the tyranny of meager travel cards.

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♪ all right. time for the must read opinion pages. we are going to start, we take a live look at washington with david brooks talking about what happened in afghanistan. sergeant robert bales and the massacre of 16 civilians there. this is hard to get the mind around but it's an interesting piece. he writes this, the inner world is a battlefield between life and dark. life is a struggle against the forces inside. the worst thing you can do is in a fit of pride to imagine your insecurity comes from outside and try to resolve it yourself. if you try to fix the other people who you think are responsible for your inner turmoil, you end up trying to kill them or hold racism against them. robert bales, like all of us is a mixture of virtue and

deprivety. his job is to resist the evil. small transgressions to prevent larger ones. if he was swept up in a whirlwind where a man is capable of monstrous acts. certainly not excusing what happened but it can be a symbol. >> why are you -- >> our workers are so liberal -- our workers are so liberal when you were talking deprivety and slaughtering of races, t.j. was showing pictures of paul ryan. at great length. t.j.? can we -- >> are you serious? did that happen? >> can we show his face here? t.j. -- >> sorry. >> he thought it was a description of the ryan budget.

>> sorry. >> it's an honest mistake. there was something -- never mind. how could they have -- seriously. if you crash one plane -- >> yeah. >> right? >> i thought you were a hideous person there. >> i was not. >> all of you. >> david brooks is making a great point. >> incredible point. >> let's talk about eating babies and show a picture of mitt romney. come on, t.j. god bless america. i guess t.j. wants to hear about paul ryan's budget. >> if you could show pictures of genocide. read this one. >> paul ryan wrote this in the wall street journal. we'll try to get this right. it is rare in american politics to arrive at a moment which the debate revolves around american democracy and the social

contract but that is where we are. no two documents illustrate this choice better than the president's budget and the one put together by republicans. the contrast couldn't be clearer. our budget returns power to individuals, families and communities. it draws inspiration from the founders belief that all people are born with a right to the pursuit of happiness. protecting this right means protecting citizens not officials to decide what is in their best interest and make the right choice about our nation's future. >> john, democrats don't put out budgets. paul ryan does and democrats criticize him for putting out budgets. what are we going hear about the budget? >> the same kind of attacks that democrats leveled against all of his previous efforts. i think it's a great thing. paul ryan is right.

he's laying out a stark choice between the way he sees the world going forward and the way republicans who rally behind him. the president has a different view. in 2012, we should have a big clarifying election about these big choices. they are huge choices the country faces and would be great if there's the public votes in november and we can go forward with someone who has a mandate to tackle the problems. i think -- >> he put himself out there. >> the country had a clarifying choice around what are the biggest issues that the country faces fiscally. >> and, mark, i was comparing paul ryan with senate democrats who haven't put out a budget in 1,000 days. this is also clarifying between paul ryan and republican statists that were on the side of george w. bush when they exploded spending in all areas.

paul ryan is actually standing up, not only against democratic action but also republican to midty. >> last budget, romney endorsed it. i suspect he will endorse it again. we'll get into this in a bit. there are holes in here. so, while it is certainly good to put one forward and said it produces, there are big issues left unaddressed in this budget. >> give us a couple quick ones. >> we'll see. the wall street journal says they don't specify what the tax breaks are, the deductions to lower the rate. it's great to say you are lowering rates but not to say how you are going to pay for it, it's a big hole. >> it's a huge hole. you have to at least keep the revenue stream. at worst, you have to keep it knew tra to where with your.

we'll explain that. >> we'll ask him about it coming up. we'll talk to the congressman in the next hour. we'll be back with more on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro.

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it's all right been time. let's keep going with the stupidi stupidity. >> thank you. the first lady of the united states made her first ever visit to "the late show" with david

letterman. >> that's cool. >> he put her in an uncomfortable position. >> i have conversations with my wife. paul has conversations with his wife. >> yeah. >> married men and women have conversations. >> we tend to talk. >> it's for no one else in the world but for one another. at the end of the day, has your husband come home and said to you, that john boehner, what an idiot? >> it has never happened. never. never. he is always upbeat, particularly about congress. >> good for her. she's funny. >> yeah. she is. >> what? >> she's funny. >> we're going to be right back. >> by the way, we are talking efficiency. let's talk about what we have

done with t.j.'s clip. >> the paul ryan montage? >> yeah. you said you were going to skip the middleman. serious. >> get it over with. >> there it is. by the way, we need to give brent and news busters t.j.'s home phone number. >> let's get on the hannity phone call. we'll be back with paul ryan himself. >> great. great. great. >> perfect lead in. i think it's final seconds, ohh, down by two, shoots a three, game over. so two seconds ago... hey mr. and mrs. harris, where's kevin? say hi kevin. hi. mom, put me down. put...the phone...down. hey guys. did you hear... the choys had their baby? so 29 seconds ago. well we should get them a gift. [ choys ] thanks for the gift! [ amy and rob ] you're welcome! you're welcome! [ male announcer ] get it fast with at&t. the nation's largest 4g network.

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♪ there's a new segment for you, ladies and gentlemen. it's called bet you didn't know. that's the name of the segment. bet you didn't know. i hope you enjoy it. watch. ♪ newt gingrich and ron paul are still run ining for preside. bet you didn't know. >> i had no idea. >> tell us on the air. welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour. still with us, mark halperin and john heilemann. joining the table, editor and chief of news week magazine and the daily pooes, tina brown. >> good morning. >> msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. >> we are perusing news week and i love this.

here we have this weeks "news week" complete with "madmen" a show that's been our favorite since the first season. i remember calling amc saying can i have the first season dvd. complete with retro ads. >> that's a neat idea. >> it's cool. here is "madmen" the article. i saw -- look at these old ads here. retro dunkin' doughnuts ad. you can say yep to america's cup. >> i love the way everybody got into it. we went to the advertisers and said go back to your libraries dig out the old ones and go retro or the new ones went retro for the hell of it. in the back you have two astronauts landing on the moon kissing. you know buzz alder was tweeting about it yesterday.

>> cool. amazing. >> of course, there was the premier last night of "madmen." the new season. joey scarborough said it was great. huge. >> johnham, who is such a hunk in real had eleanor cliff writ lead piece. she was the only writer left from the '60s. it was a set of three martini culture. women were not allowed to have lines. until there was a class action suit in 1970 where the women of "newsweek" were led by eleanor who was an attorney and they won, of course. >> it's something. are you "madmen" fans? >> huge. >> overed. >> shut up. >> no way. i saw the very first one.

>> they have all been great. very good, tina. we'll talk about that more. let's go to news. >> with a big delegate lead, romney is looking to refocus his campaign message on attacking the president. speaking at the university of chicago, where barack obama once worked, the former massachusetts governor slammed the president's economic policies. >> the obama administration's assault on the freedom is why the recovery has been tepid and why it couldn't meet their expectations let alone ours. if we don't change course now, the assault on freedom could damage our economy and the well being of american families for decades to come. in a recent address, he said we are all inventors, we are builders, we are makers of things, we are thomas edison, we are the thomas brothers,

billgates, steve jobs. the reality is under president obama's administration, they would have found it much, much more difficult, if not impossible to innovate and invent and create. under dodd-frank, they would have struggled to get a loan from their bank. a regulator would have shut down the wright brothers for their dust pollution and the governor would have banned the lightbulb. yeah, they just did. >> today, illinois goes to the polls. >> can i say quickly, mika? >> yeah. >> i'm a republican. i believe that stuff. romney is making a good statement there. making a statement that connects to the base. talks about if you have too much gove government regulation, the most creative people out there are going to be stymied. steve jobs had concerns, wrote

about it. he's a progressive guy. a lot of progressive minded business leaders said i voted for him, i gave him a lot of money, i love him. i understand wall street needs to be tamed and we need regulations but this guy doesn't understand what makes america great. economically. what makes us thrive. so, i think romney's message there maybe not to independents or democrats but at least to the conservative base strikes a cord. >> he only seems authentic when he's in that mode. that's the one place he seems to do well. that's the real romney speaking. otherwise, there's nothing else that he tries that works. >> tina, you have heard this as much as anybody here. 2008, a lot of people in the business community thrilled about barack obama. they gave him a lot of money, threw a lot of parties, wanted to be associated with him. were you surprised in '09 and

'10, so many business leaders, democrats that never voted for a republican before believing that this guy, when it came to business just didn't get it? doesn't understand american economic greatness? >> that have been a uniform view in the business community and a real disappointment to them. he doesn't have anyone around him that gets it, either. it's been a hard problem to fund raise out of that group. it's like pulling teeth to get people to write checks. people who were their big supporters. >> eugene robinson, i'll ask you what i was going to ask joe. what do you think romney is doing here, slamming the president. some argue he should have done that a long time ago. >> i think he's feeling confident about illinois. he's doing what he would have liked to have done all along, which is concentrate on obama

and start running his general election campaign. this is his house. this is the best setting and the best subject for mitt romney. when he gets off on contraception and social issues and anything else, actually, anything other than business, he's got a problem. but, we'll see if the business community has disenchantment with obama. we'll see how enchanted they get with romney and, you know, i imagine we'll have that chance. >> let's go to our game change, guys. the game change boys here. is the obama campaign, mark halperin concerned about this? people outside of new york may not hear this as much but with progressive business owners, progressive ceos who love the democratic party given the democratic party lots of money

in the past, feeling disconnected from their nominee, how concerned is the obama campaign team about this in the long run? >> it's a complicated topic. for a period, they were more indignant about it. now, they recognize it's something they must address. they are hope is when there's a republican nominee which will be romney, they put in some of their economic proposals they argue are not favorable to business and go to the social issues that matter to some of the leaders. the big worry they have is the super pacs. the fact that it will only take a handful of business leaders who -- and private sector folks to give tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars to defeat the president. they are not able to match on their side. >> i guess that's the big question, how is the president handling this. he was in '09 and '10 and parts

of '11 he was indignant. he said you are greedy. i know this because people who gave the president a lot of money in '08 were shocked when he raised taxes and passed regulations. that's fine but understand what drive this is economy. the president wasn't open to listening to his allies. is he getting more open? does he understand this is not about everybody on wall street being greedy? this may be that he needs to listen more to old allies? >> i think the second part of that, there's no doubt the president was indignant. i'm not sure the second part is right. his attitude was that he was the guy between them and the pitch forks. what his attitude was, they didn't understand just how angry the public was at them. he felt like he was in middle course. i think he believes that.

he's less indignant now and more frustrated in his view, just speaking for the president, not endorsing this, his view is he's treading a centrist view. some on the right would like to see business stands. he was trying to kind of tame populism on one side while taming the excess of wall street. i think he's frustrated they don't see the world through his eyes. mark is correct. it's a problem. they need to explain themselves better. in a prakt >> caller: terms, the super pacs are a problem. there's a problem on the fund raising side. the president is raise iing mon but not as much as people thought he would raise. the high dollar donors are not there like in 2008. the notion of a campaign, they never adopted that publicly. that was imputed to them.

they are not going to get there. they are going to raise a lot of money. they are not going to get to a billion. not at the rate they are spending money. there's political issues and standard ones. >> gene, you always hear from people i must be doing the right thing because i'm getting attacked from both sides. i hear that from editors. you should hear what they are saying about me. i'm not as communistic. in this case, i mean, barack obama actually can legitimately say here's a stack of articles from my base on the left that say i'm a sell-out to wall street. and here is a stack of articles on my right that say i'm a communist that wants to destroy american capitalism. it's -- >> it's leveling out for him.

>> the president can be frustrated that he has both sides shooting at him. >> he can be frustrated. that doesn't change the fact that the middle, in this case, is a very dangerous place to be. you get shot at from both sides. look, what's the course he could have chartered that would have made both sides happy in that argument? i don't know where it is. you can argue that the president, in order to be reelected has to reconnect with his base and if he neglects that, he's in trouble. and he also wants these big dollar donors. you know, so he can try to get them, too. i think you have to say that if you have to choose between the two and raising enough money, quite a lot of money, you have to still have that connection with your base. >> all right. let's get some other news now. members of the congress today

are set to hear from the top u.s. commander in afghanistan general john allen. he'll testify on capitol hill as american officials work to ease tensions with afghan leaders and civilians. the wall street journal is reporting the obama administration is allowing more afghan control of raids by u.s. special forces. it comes on the backdrop of simmering anger following the burning of muslim holy books by nato troops and last week's massacre of 16 afghan villagers. the suspect in that attack, staff sergeant robert bales met with his defense team. he only remembers partial details from the night in question and virtually nothing from the time the military says he was inside the afghan villages. now bale's wife carolyn is speaking out. the mother of two says in part this -- what happened was a

terrible and heart-breaking tragedy. we extend our condolences to the parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents of the children who parish parishes. it's out of character. i, too, want to know what happened. i want to know how this could be. there is new information surrounding the suspects troubled life here at home according to to ohio financial records, robert bales was ordered to pay $1.3 million in damages after defrauding an elderly couple while serving as their stockbroker 12 years ago. >> here, tina has an article about the massacre revisited. >> 1968. >> it shocked america. i wonder, though, tina, if this is just something that happens when the united states occupies

other countries for as long as we have been occupying. these soldiers snap and do horrific things. >> the key facts in this are the three terms in iraq and another term in afghanistan. then he wasn't promoted. he thought he was going to become a recruiter. that meant a domestic existence in the u.s. or going to italy or hawaii. then it comes through, no, you are going to be deployed again. clearly, he was close to snapping. he had in his background other questionable things. sometimes there's a man who was always a troubled man. >> i don't think we'll know why, ultimately. gene robinson, fair to ask the question as we look at the ramifications of the long engagement, repeat tours of duty on families, on people could lead them to change completely

and act out in ways we could never expect. >> the deployments are unprecedented and taking such a toll. i hear from families who write about their hardships that they have endured over this decade long period of war. you know, what i heard about this, the massacre in afghanistan, my first thoughts were apocalypse now. i wonder if you are not right, joe. this sort of thing happens when we get bogged down in these long wars of occupation or in case of vietn vietnam, attempted occupation. they grind on and on. bad things happen. very, very bad things happen. >> gene, we don't do occupations in this country. >> no. >> yesterday, after we spoke at

great length about afghanistan, we were in germany since 1945. we were in japan but it was completely different. in this case, people are shooting at us every day. soldiers, marines understand there's always snipers scope on their helmets. the stress has caused a lot of people to break. >> there's the detail, which i thought was interesting about how frustrated he became in iraq when the enemy was always invisible. it was a build-up of tension. couldn't see the enemy, but shot at. >> it was a roadside bomb. the era of the i.e.d. when you move from one place to the other, there's a risk of being blown up. >> read the book about afghanistan and serving in an

outpost. did you read that, gene? >> i did. it's a fabulous book. >> it really is. >> if you want to understand the day-to-day stress on these men and women in uniform, he said you started doing twitches and doing strange things understanding there's a chance a sniper had your head. you know, they would see their friends doing the most mundane things, taking trash out and getting a bullet in their eye or going to the bathroom outside and that not being safe. you realize at any moment your head could be blown off. sebastian said, gene, the stress for him, knowing he was going to go home in a couple months was overwhelming and these 19-year-old kids that had to do it time and time again. how do they do it? >> i don't know how they do it. it affects them, clearly.

when you talk about when they leave and come home, it's as if they haven't left because their bodies are still there and still in danger and part of them want to get back to be with them and the other part is scared because who wouldn't be scared when you are in that sort of situation. in a valley, where we -- which we abandoned. shortly after the book was written, we left that valley. >> gene says he doesn't know how they do it. john heilemann, much of america doesn't need to know how they do it. doesn't even need to know. >> doesn't know, doesn't care. just thinking about 1968. it was a galvanizing moment. america was still there six years after that. these moments happen and people

are shocked by them yet it takes longer to get the message than it should. >> eugene robinson, thank you so much. we'll be look iing for your coln at washingtonpost.com. >> he writes three a day. >> tina brown stays with us. we are going to bring in congressman paul ryan and gene sperling deck tor of the economic council. up next, chuck todd on what to watch in today's illinois primary. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise.

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we have someone that is certainly the choice of the establishment republican, someone whose turn it was. we see that so often in republican politics for

president. it's almost inevitable, whoever is next in line, that's who the republicans tend to put forward. reagan ran that insurgent campaign in 1976 and people say why don't you get out of the race, you have no chance of winning. he fought. he won 11 states in 1976. i might add, just pair enthetically, if we happen to win illinois, that will be the 11th state i have won in this election. here with us now, chief white house correspondent and political director, chuck todd. let's break down illinois. how is it looking? >> because of the odd way illinois elects its delegates, the popular vote means nothing. there's a con va luted way. we elect what is running. the name of the candidates in

parenthesis. romney's are going to be listed first. this should be a big night of delegates for romney. he should get of the 54, i would be shocked if he didn't get 35 of them. >> we heard this could be tight. we heard this could be tight. >> it could be a popular vote. it wouldn't surprise me. we have seen, look at where illinois is. there's a large enough urban center where romney has been doing well. if you just throw the demographics of all the previous elections, you assume romney wins eight to ten points on this one. chicago area, he should dominate. santorum down state. i think the question is, you know, at some point, it's a decisive win for romney. it helps them win two weeks later. wisconsin is going to be the next place romney has to shut the door. >> having said that, mark halperin, rick santorum surprised before. is there a pathway here where

the math could be on the side? >> the math has been impossible for him for a long time to get to. he must knock romney out. the only way to knock him out is beat him in states where you are not expected to win. the southern states that don't do that for him. he needs a win in illinois or wisconsin. i think to weaken romney. again, romney showed strength in so many big states now and no desire to quit. doing well in fund raising. it's difficult to see the path now barring a win tonight for him where he could start to make the argument again. the one-on-one. if he has one, he's got to produce. >> john heilemann? >> i think the santorum campaign is not trying to win at this point. their goal is not -- they don't think they can get there. >> really? >> they can't get the number of delegates they need to secure

the nomination. >> what are they trying to do? >> trying to keep romney from getting it. can they keep him from getting to 1144. then somehow, in a contested convention end up with the nomination. he would have to win 65% of the remaining delegates. it's not going to happen. he can't get to 1144 by june. there's a way to keep romney from getting there. it's hard. it's their objective. there's no way to get there. it's a formative question for you, chuck. >> look, i agree. there's no -- it would take an act -- the romney folks are right, it would take an act of god to get 1144 by the utah primary. game it out with romney getting to 1144 and i have to say, i think it's only barely better than 50/50 that he gets to 1144 without having to somehow twist

the arms of those handful of rnc super delegates. somehow overperform in the state conventions that are going to be more conservative than the primary electives themselves. we were gaming out the system. if the demographics don't lie here, right, and they trade states and santorum wins a wisconsin win in indiana, win in oregon, places where there are evangelical places to perform. he can't beat romney in a connecticut, new york or california. don't forget texas. put it together and we have romney coming up just short. not by much. like i said, twist an arm here or there. they say -- the state convention if you have to. it's what insiders do. it may be what it takes for romney to get to 1144 if he loses wisconsin. >> tina? >> what about gingrich and ron

paul? can they be any kind of wild card in there to throw anything more toward santorum? i mean, is it still impossible, if they really decide, okay, we are going to get behind santorum? >> well, first of all, paul seems to be working in cahoots with romney. we saw it play out in the missouri caucuses. they have a delegate strategy together. there's a rule in the rnc. this is interesting. if you don't win a plurality of five states you can't be on the vote. you control your delegates but your name is not on the ballot. gingrich won two states and delegate wise, paul has yet to win a single state. they have their delegates but won't be able to be part of the contested process. >> all right. chuck todd, thank you so much.

we'll see you on ""the daily rundown"" after "morning joe." tina, thank you as well. the madman cover is the latest issue of news week. it's a good one. up next, the budget plan reshapes the tax code. we'll ask congressman paul ryan what it means for the financial future. "morning joe" in just a moment. [ female announcer ] the best things in life are the real things. nature valley trail mix bars are made with real ingredients you can see. like whole roasted nuts, chewy granola, and real fruit. nature valley trail mix bars. 100% natural. 100% delicious.

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♪ make no mistake, years of empty promises from both political parties got us in this mess today. when it comes to the federal budget, the democrat led senate hasn't proposed one in three years. they continue to spend but there's zero accountability. the president proposed a budget, but it calls for more spending and more debt. despite of $2 trillion in tax increases on hard working taxpayers, the debt still skyrockets under his plan. it will put us on par with countries like greece. that means sudden cuts to benefits. sudden tax increases and really, a fundamental change to the american way of life as we know it. >> all right.

that was congressman paul ryan previewing today's budget proposal. >> fantastic on camera. >> does it come with a sound track? >> it's posted on youtube. we are going to talk to the real thing. the republican plan unveiled today. let me lay it out for you, if i could. dramatic changes to the nation's tax code. the number of tax brackets would be dropped from six to two with earners paying 10% and higher 25%. the a.m.t. would be eliminated and the current 35% tax rate on corporations to 25%. the plan eliminated u.s. taxes on corporate earnings brought home from operations overseas. here with us now, republican representative from wisconsin, paul ryan.

paul, very good to have you on the show. >> good morning, mika. i'm marking joe down as a s supporter. i can hear it now. >> we have questions. >> devil's in the details as ross perot used to say. we'll see where the rubber hits the road. first of all, we will throw you the softball question out there. talk about how because we are seeing a lot of, even heilman, he says this is great. it defines the difference between republicans and democrats world view government. how is it different? define the difference. >> we owe the country that choice. if we don't like the path the president put the country on, show him how we would do things. how government should live within their means. we have to get off the days of spending money we don't have. the president gave a budget that makes it worse. we are saving medicare from bankruptcy, preserving it for

future generations. we are taking the tax system and reforming it along the way that this new bipartisanship is showing. get rid of special interest loopholes, lower tax rates. bring in at least as much revenue and grow jobs. get spending under control and pay off the debt. that's how it's different. >> you want to bring in as much revenue into the government even with lower tax rates. >> how do you do that? >> there are only a few ways to do it as far as eliminating tax loopholes whether the home mortgage loophole or health care or charitable interest deductions. which of those do you eliminate? >> we want to do it in front of everybody. in charge of the tax systems sent us the plan here, which is a 10% and 25% bracket for individuals and small businesses. they want to have hearings. in the light of day show how they would go about doing this. the point i'm making is getting

rid of the a.m.t. tax. the purpose was to stop sheltering incomes. that's what this proposes. get rid of the tax shelters and lower tax rates. the other point, don't forget small businesses pay taxes as individuals, not corporations. right now, the president is saying the top tax rate will be almost 45%. it's a job killer. faster economic growth, more job creation is a secret to success here and getting spending and borrowing under control to pay the debt off. we have to recognize the fact entitlement programs people organize their lives around are going bankrupt. they are not serving the people they need to serve. we need to fix that so empty promises can be fulfilled. if we stay on the path presidents put us on, they are broken promises. we have a debt crisis coming.

we know this. it's the most predictable we have had in this country. we feel as leaders we have to do something about it. we have a legal obligation to pass a budget. it's supposed to be done by april 15th. we are going to do that. >> tell us the part that is harder for people to hear and harder for politicians to say. i'm assuming you are not in that category. what are the cuts that need to be made and what are you proposing needs to go? >> we are talking $5.3 trillion in cuts. i could go on and on. the point i would say is, i believe that's not the politically risky thing anymore. the wrong thing, from a political standpoint is ducking this issue, evading responsibility, failing to fix this crisis and bring us closer to a debt crisis. we have to cut $5.3 trillion from the budget now to preempt a debt crisis. to make sure seniors don't get stopped in the middle of retirement.

if you don't, everybody is going to get hurt. we'll have a debt crisis and it's ugly for everybody. the faster we get ahead of the problem, the better off everybody is going to be. the longer we wait, the worst it is for people. the people i work for they want to see something. they want to see us lead. i don't think that's problematic. i think people are ready to be talked to like adults. that's why we are putting this budget out. >> it's willie geist. good to see you. you are hearing the attacks from democrats. you want to end medicare as we know it. shift the burden on to seniors so they are paying more for medical care. are you changing medicare as we know it? how can you say it's a good thing for seniors? >> medicare is changing under current law. let's not forget the new health care law takes a half trillion

on the health care law. medicare is always changing as we know it and going bankrupt. get rid of the rationing board, stop the rate of the trust fund. for younger people, give them a choice of guaranteed health care options to choose from and subsidize that choice. don't subsidize wealthy. don't subsidize wealthy people as much as efbls. that is different. it's change. it saves medicare. people that are younger can count on this system. they have a system that resembles the ones we have. yes, that changes it but it saves the system and makes it better. it realizes, what i think is a consensus on how to save medicare from bankruptcy. >> john heilemann? >> the comment earlier that i thought was commendable about what you are doing as you wrote

in your op-ed clarifying the choices. >> right. >> we are going to have a big argument about that this year. do you expect governor romney is going to be on board for this budget? >> yes. >> and, if you have a presidential election that is fought largely on these terms versus romney's and yours therefore, if the will of the people is that they prefer the president's approach to this, are you red dou go along and help him inact his vision of reform in congress next year? >> his vision of reform is to duck and kick the can down the road. his budget adds to the debt. his budget has new spending increases. what i think we owe the country is let them make the choice. we should show them how to fix the problem so they can choose what solution they want. they can implement the solution. let the country decide. these issues are so big.

america is at a precarious moment. instead of cutting a back room deal or letting a super committee figure this out, give the country a choice of two clear futures. let the country decide in the fall. whoever wins the referendum gets to implement the plan. we owe it to the country if we don't like the path the president put us on. >> there are a lot of big things here. i want to go back to the trade off with lower rates and deductions. you want to have hearings, do it in the light of day. you know what the choices are. the mortgage deduction. the health care deduction, charitable deduction. what are your recommendations. which deductions would you like scaled back or eliminated? >> in change for lower rates take away shelters and keep them for middle income earners. >> how high is the cut off? >> i hate to be mathematical

about it. it's a numbers question. the point is, most of the tax shelters are used by the people in the top two tax brackets. for every dollar, it's zero. take away the tax shelter and now it's taxed at least 25%. you get more revenue to the government but at lower tax rates. this way, we are not overtaxing the success of small businesses. we have a system that is fair and transparent and simple. to me, who you are or what kind of business you are, if you make the same level of income, pay the same tax rate. it's not what's happening today. people who make the same money based on loopholes and special interest deals are paying different tax rates. it's competitive. it takes a long time to comply with it. it's killing jobs. take away that stuff. clear the loopholes and bring everybody's rates down. take more away from higher income. >> a couple numbers here.

the cbo projected 15% of all tax revenue we get is going to be spent on nothing but servicing the national debt. >> right. >> 15% as it moves toward 25%, 30%, that's when you have a meltdown. also fascinating, paul, president obama has already run up as much debt in three and a quarter years as george w. bush ran up over eight years. you have heard me for eight years skewering george w. bush. i commended you for being one of the few republicans in '04 for fighting against that. i say all this comparing the president's reckless path forward with the reckless path of a lot of republican candidates where the debt goes up higher. what does the national debt do over the next decade under your plan? >> okay. as you mentioned, joe, i put out my first budget during the bush

administration. debt still goes up. we cut it by $3.3 trillion over ten years compared to where the president is going. does it increase? here is why it increases. 10,000 people are retiring every day. baby boomers are moving from working to retiring. their health care costs are going up at three to four times the rate of inflation. we have to absorb the fact we are going from 40 million retirees to 80 million. if we don't reform the programs and the rest of government, the debt goes off the rails. we will have increasing debt. we have to absorb it in a way we can manage it. that's what we are proposing to do. >> congressman paul ryan. thank you very much. always good to see you. >> thank you so much. >> up next, one of the president's top economic advi r advise advisers, james sperling joins us when "morning joe" comes back. [ male announcer ] this is the network --

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because it works. with us now for a responsiblive congressman, director of economic counsel, gene sperling. mark halperin said on days like this you never sleep. heilemann corrected him, no. gene never sleeps. give us your response to paul ryan. throe you the softball. what's your response to paul ryan's budget? >> extremely disappointing. we need to bring the deficit down with shared sacrifice. a few things you didn't hear from paul. one, they're still not asking for a single penny of revenue to bring the deficit down. they're actually asking to cut overall tax cuts for the most well off by over $1 trillion.

two, they do that at a time when they ask for the most harsh cuts we've ever seen proposed. for example, it is reported they're going cut over $770 billion in medicare. that would have a significant cut for people in nursing homes. families with disabilities, and, third, his proposal on medicare still fundamentally undermines medicare as we know it for three basic reasons. one -- tish -- it takes a bake guarantee it turns it into an annualized voucher making an overwhelming number of seniors pay more for medicare. second, it does not save money having better outcomes, better health care, more preventative care. it does so and is designed to do so by shifting costs to those less healthy and older. ther third, what i find most disturbing it create as two tier system in which people and tell

the care plans have a fundamental economic incentive to try to siphon off the healthiest and youngest workers thereby raising costs more for people who want to stay in medicare, driving more people out of medicare making the cost even higher for those who remain. this process risks creating an actual death spiral for the basic guarantee of medicare as more people are forced out of the system and those who remain face higher and higher costs. >> as a republican, sounds like democratic -- you talking about his plan hurting seniors, hurting people in nursing home, destroying medicare, creating a death spiral. you know and the president knows and all the presidents people know that there is a problem with medicare, and certainly you can find fault with paul ryan's plan from your side of the

aisle. i understand that, and i've got great respect for that. what i want to know is what are you going to do? what is the president going to do? what is the administration going to do? what is the democratic senate that is afraid to even put out their own budget what are they going to do to save medicare? >> just second. this is a president who has extended the life of medicare with very different, tough choices in the affordable care act. this is a president who's put out an additional $360 billion in specific health care savings. the way go it, joe, and are happy to discuss this any time. we do it by how we kraecreate t incentives that pay people for quality taitive care. we're doing savings in a way that protects the overall system. now, anytime you criticize, just criticize us for pointing these

things out or explaining, but we have to have a way of discussing real-life issues. it is reported he cuts medicare by -- medicaid by one-third. that's a fact in their budget. two-thirds of medicaid goes to people with disabilities or people who have somebody with, at nursing homes or people with families with disabilities. you can't cut a program by a third and not hurt people. the math just doesn't add up. >> agreement there, but let's talk about medicare again. it your -- >> let me talk about it. >> is your position, the white house's position, that medicare as-is, will survive over the next 20, 25 years? >> you know, medicare today, the growth of medicare is overwhelmingly because we've had an explosion in the baby boom retirement. it's about the number of people that are in medicare because we van aging population. the rate of growth -- this is a fact -- the rate of growth is actually lower than the private

sector. yes, we have to do medicare savings. that's why the president hases 3ds 60 billion of savings. but when the president's doing it -- this is very ponchts no. the second time you've talked about the president making tough choices on medicare, and i would salute the president for doing that and the affordable care act, except for the that can't that he moved that money all over to another new entitlement. when is she going to tackle all of medicare -- >> joe. >> and save medicare for the next 20 years? >> joe, the president in his plan unlike what you see in paul ryan's plan does put in details, you can check this. you can come back and verify if i'm wrong. s 3ds$360 billion in medicare savings. the difference is we're trying to do reforms in a way that lower the costs of medicare, to protect its basic guarantee and improve value and improve

quality of health care. you know, you can say that it's unfair to say the death spiral phrase, but it really refers to something in economics that i think you understand. that if you put everybody in one common insurance pool and then you allow people to siphon off those who are healthy, healthiest and youngest, those who remain in medicare, instead of being part of a large pool of seniors are now just the sickest and the oldest. of course, that means their costs are going to go up. that means for those that want to stay in, they face higher costs creating a spiral where more are forced to leave into the private plan. those who stay face higher and higher costs nap is a process and dynamic that people talk about and aware about whenever we're doing health care insurance. and i think many experts will tell you there is a real risk this type of segmentation of medicare, creating a two tiered system does create a serious

risk of a death spiral that undermines the basic affordability of medicare that we have today. >> gene, thank you so much. they've been yelling in my ear well, they always yet in my ear. but we thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> and even without any sleep, he's really good. really good. but with love for you, if it's okay, because as you know, we obviously are a bit obsessive here about the national debt and saving medicare for the long run. we'd love to get you on set, give you 20, 30 minutes. have the conversation. because i personally don't believe there's a more important issue than saving medicare and saving us from the national debt. i know you -- we agree on that t. ge . >> gene sperling, thank you very much. futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have mark halperin and john heilemann. >> so, you know, mika, as you know, this goes all the way back, if you can go back, the old nfl, afl era. >> the orange footballs. >> well, with the orange footballs. that whenever sports writers wanted to get input on what is hat happened in the story based on a

christ-centered player, they go to willie geist. wil, can you believe this happened? >> yes, i can. >> hated him from the beginning. said i'm going to get a guy that is as old as me, because this young kid, he's -- he's crowding my space. >> john elway had the greatest teeth and watched tebow win game after game after game and take them to the playoffs and then along came peyton manning. john elway wanted him from the beginning. the competition came down to san francisco, probably, and denver, but peyton manning felt he had the best chance to win there. certainly they'll trade tim tebow. either jacksonville or miami, they believe. jacksonville, of course, is tim tebow's hometown. a lot of trouble filling that stadium and tim tebow would go a long way. >> tim tebow, he could part the river, walk across it, go to the stadium. that would be wonderful.

>> and pull in all the gators' fans of north florida. >> first of all if you're tim tebow and, thank god, he has a christ-centered life, somebody that didn't might be a little bit -- look at what he did turning that team around, remarkable, and the players loved him. the players respected him. they followed this kid like you just don't follow somebody. but secondly what if you're the quarterback with the san francisco 49ers and you -- san francisco, they're going to have to deal with that shtink bomb for a year to come. how do you rov fer you're the quarterback -- >> and a great year. >> he took them to the cusp of the super bowl, and he's treated with no respect. >> i think when peyton manning coming along, all bets are off. even a 36-year-old peyton manning. they're going to give him five years and $35 million. those numbers don't mean

anything. contracts aren't guaranteed, but -- >> like a pitcher's contract. a 6-year-old pitcher. ah, whatever. we don't care. >> except they have to actually pay that out. in the nfl, you can send them to the glue factory. so does that include the neck braces? like, does he get -- a lot of money for a guy that has like 3% range of motion in his neck. >> his doctors cleared him, said he's ready to pay. >> what's the chances he starts the whole season? >> payton manning? plays the whole season? >> yeah. >> pretty good. certainly start the first game. right? we're go from there. >> in case he gets injured in preseason. >> as a floridian, i'm anxious to see tebow. in jacksonville, he will fill the stands every week. >> a lot more god-fearing people in jacksonville. >> that's why i love it. north florida. >> a whole other problem in

jacksonville, just drafted a quarterback. problem there. >> talking football, the "new york times," looks like -- good news. they have to pay -- kind of like an nfl deal. they have to pay $160-something million, maybe they don't. they survive. right? >> survive and maybe can turn the page now. >> yeah. all right. >> no big fans here. >> what do you think? >> i think it's a great deal for them. >> they avoided the charges that they were inside and that they had inside information. they can pay it in three years. a great moment. >> a turn the page moment. the uncertainty has been killing the feel. >> the "new york post" says it with -- fred wins. fans lose. a lot of people in the "new york post" newsroom were cheering for

them to sell the team. fred wilupon is a great guy. an obsession with taking care of our men and women in uniform. >> yes, he is subpoena after they come home. >> i've heard him talk about that a hell of a lot more than baseball. an obsession with him. so i like the guy and glad they've been able to turn the page. today a big day in illinois. >> let's head to illinois. today voters head to the polls in a hotly contested primary. a win for romney could cement his status. for now, santorum is on the defensive over these comments he made during a final campaign push in illinois yesterday. >> you need a candidate who's going to be a fighter for freedom. who's going get up and make that the central theme in this race because it the central theme. i don't care what the

unemployment rate's going to be. doesn't matter to me. my campaign doesn't hinge on unemployment rates and growth rates. there's something more foundational that's going on here. >> okay. romney seized upon that comment trying to capitalize. >> i'm concerned about the people that are out of work. one of the people who's running also for the republican nomination today said he doesn't care about the unemployment rate. that doesn't bother hill. i do care about the unemployment rate. it does bother me. i want to get people back to work. i'm concern about those out of work. one of the reasons i'm running is to get my expertise in place so we can get people back to work so we can get america strong again way strong economy. >> then rick santorum tried to walk back from his original comments. >> what i said was that the unemployment imt doesn't matter what it was between now and election time, the fundamental issue causing the unemployment, causing the economic distress in our country, is the fact that

the government is imposing its will and mandating things on people, and creating a yoke on top of businesses that makes it hard to employ. so if you want to solve the unemployment problem, you've got to solve the regulatory tax and government repression problem. one is a cause of the other. not that unemployment is important, just you have to get to the foundational root cause of what's causing the unemployment. >> kind of a long day for rick santorum yesterday. it started on this show. feisty interview, and then, of course, him wading into the battle with mitt romney that's plagued mitt romney, whether or not he cares about the 99%. and now rick santorum. that's bad for him? >> no, it's not. most people that listened yesterday understand. early he accused us of engages in gotcha politics, when we actually just saying back what he had said in great detail. >> yeah. >> but in that case, that is a case of gotcha politics.

and i think these guys that cover it day in, day out, for instance, mitt romney says something that reflects a larger truth. john heilemann, it's obvious, you're like, ooh, that is a faux pas. that's a mistake. >> not what he meant. >> in this case, jeb bush what are you going to do for black people, and he said, probably nothing. what he meant to say and went on to explain. i'm worried about all floridians. so am i going to focus on african-americans solely? i'm going to focus on african-americans, hispanics and do all i can -- in this case, i think this is much ado about nothing. >> i agree. i think you know, rick santorum obviously cares about the unemployment rate and if you listened to him over the course of these moss, he's had a problem staying on an economic message and not getting drawn into discussions of social issues and cultural issues that have been unpredictive, i think, for him politically. but he talk about the economy all the time and has a plan for,

in his view what would fix the economy. it's not like he's somehow immune to economic concerns and savvy enough to know the unemployment rate matters. what he's trying to say i could care less ar the unemployment per per than the broader picture of what's going on in america. >> like mitt romney saying he doesn't really care about poor people? or does he care about poor people jl we all jumped on that like it was really big news. do you remember that comment? >> no, i don't. >> of course, he said he doesn't -- he's not concerned about the very poor. what he said i like being able to fire people. he would argue tls context. >> that poor people, reflects a campaign strategy i'm focusing on building out the middle class. i do remember that now and that actually was more concerning. some of these other things

romney said, not quite as much, but i think santorum's bringing up a bigger point here, and he can obviously speak very well for himself, at length, but i think the bigger point santorum is making is, you know, you people in the media and politicians and pundits are obsessing on the month to month to month employment rate. whether it goes up .5% or down .5% maybe that make as difference, but the bigger issue is, economic freedom versus centralized control. and that's what i want to talk about instead of whether it's -- you know, i think that was also most rational voters will look at that and say, okay. i get. that's what he's talking about. >> i detest the press' focus on this. it's horrible for our political media world, but i'll say that rick santorum more days than not does not drive the message that would nominate the news and opens himself up to the focus on little things.

>> that's really the bigger issue with rick? that he complains about contraception or other issues but doesn't drive it like -- like the champion of all champions. in 1990 -- in 1988, george h.w. bush, he's in a harbor in massachusetts. he's the environmental president. he's in a classroom. i mean, great campaigns. drive the message. they dominate the news cycle and give you no choice but they cover this item of the day. >> and the media climate we live today where little things get made into big thing, you could still dominate it with doing one great event a day that drove a message with great visuals. for some reason, his campaign, and frankly the other republican campaigns for the most part, have chosen not to do that. >> i guess they're not got at it. >> i guess not. that opens you up to having something like this totally out of context and ridiculous. drawn out, amplified threat. whole cycle. >> yesterday we asked rick santorum whether or not the

campaign was a little bit sidetracked by the whole issue of contraception and the church attempting to deal with has issue. his wife, karen santorum defended her husband. he would not make changes to contraception laws if he becomes president. >> the unfortunate thing is, when asked the question, rick said these were my personal beliefs and the press kept asking him the issue about it again and again. it's not an issue about contraception. it's an issue about personal freedoms and the fact that the government should not be making people go against their conscience. rick is a great guy. he's completely supportive of women. he's surrounded by a lot of very strong women, and i think women have nothing to fear when it comes to contraceptive, he will do nothing on that issue. >> they need to bring her out a lot more. by the way, that is one of the great ironies of rick santorum. he's had strong women in his

life, his entire life. >> and i take this point they've made. we have -- we are -- everybody, we are right to criticize him for constantly chasing shoddy objects. a million wears you cannot answer questions and stay on message if you want to. the problem with this issue, i'll just say, he has been consistent in saying, he has personal withdrew views and what he would do legislatively. if your personal view, you are against contraception, in the 1%, 2% of americans, people do look to character and say, can identify? if you're in the tiny, tiny sliver thinking it's immoral to practice contra serngs you're going to turn off voters regardless of your legislative plans. >> i don't want to obsess. in 2006 he was very clear. this is what i personally believe, but this is shue i vote. i voted for title 10. in iowa, did what a lot of politician dos, i've done in the past. you don't think anybody's looking and you say something to your audience, and you say, it

matters to me and i'm going to talk about it. it is wrong, blah, blah, blah. that's out there. if he'd stayed at 2% nobody would have ever noticed it, but this goes to a bigger issue, willie, and that is, this guy can't stay on message. yesterday was a great example. i talked to him. i said, listen, ask contraception questions, we've hammered you and it would be trong have you on and pretend nothing was said. now let's move on to the economy. where we're going to then talk about what he wants to talk about. no. he wouldn't do that. he wanted to circle back and fight. and so then i said, are you saying i'm pigeonholing you on pro-life issues? conservative record as rick santorum on pro-life issues? i'm not pigeonholing you. now let's move on. no -- he won in iowa and then immediately went to new hampshire. picked a fight with college students on gay marriage. he just lacks that ability to

let the punch go and move forward. >> sch >> he is a fighter, i think. wanted to settle each argument. >> and make very clear. >> he did try to make the case yesterday when you brought it up on our show this was not to him about contraception and that is his core message, all these economic messages are about freedom. economic freedom. personal freedom. but if he can just stay on that and get back on the economic meg he'll be okay, although we'll see what happens tonight in the state of illinois where mitt romney, according to many polls harks a pretty big lead. coming up we'll talk to congressman aaron schock about the primary in his state and get the tea party take on the paul ryan budget proposal. tea party grass roots activist michael patrick leahy joins us. first, bill karen with a check of the forecast. >> it's great tncht is great. seeing june-like temperatures once again today.

today the first day of spring. we are going to watch some areas paying for that. this time of year, not that warm in the ocean. relatively cool. a lot of fog along areas of the east coast especially southern in your hand, northern mid-atlantic. philadelphia, delays. laguardia one hour. fog lifts throughout the day and then a beautiful june-like afternoon. temperatures once again in the mid-70s, even up to northern new england, temperatures in the 70s. unheard of. usually there's still snow on the ground, and a ton of rain in texas. dallas, major airport delays and that line of storms is approaching the houston airports. a problem too. the forecast today, very warm. it's 64 now in chicago, and look at this afternoon. 85 degrees. approaches one of the hottest temperatures you've ever had in march. there's d.c. cherry blossoms out about two weeks early and the fog is beginning to lift for a beautiful afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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in a recent address he said that we're all inventors. we're builders. we're makers of things. we're thomas edison. the wright brothers, bill gates, steve jobs. the reality is under president obama's administration, these pioneers would have found it much, much more difficult, if not impossible to innovate and invent and create.

under dodd-frank, they needed to get along with the community bank. a regulate worry have shut down the wright brothers for their dust pollution, and the government would have ban the thomas edison's light bulb pope, yeah. they just did. >> 24 past the hour. pretty shot of capitol hill in washington, d.c., and joining us now, republican representative from illinois and supporter of the romney campaign, congressman aaron schock. good to have you back on the show. nice to see you. >> good morning. nice to be with you. >> we hear your candidate talking about why our current president seems to be not trying to make invention and development happen in this country. how, then, would mitt romney? what's his plan? >> well, i think it's careful balance of regulation and government. i think the point he's trying to make is that while we all want

the economy to improve, the president included, you can't continue to put a knife in the chest of the economy that, in fact, you want to improve, and every new piece of regulation coming out of the epa, coming out of the nlrb, the list goes on and on and on, has made it more and more difficult for businesses to improve. dodd-frank, for example, made it more difficult, not for the big banks in new york city but the small community banks in my district to make lending their cost of capital has gone up because the cost to run their banks because of all the new additional regulation has gone up. so, you know, that's point that governor romney was trying to make there. simply, if you want the economy to turn around and you want america to remain the innovative capital of the world, you've got to make sure government is not stifling that entrepreneurial spirit. >> congressman schock, willie geist, good to see you again this morning. you've been spending a lot of time with mitt romney around your state of illinois there, not just in the chicago area but

down in the state. i'm wondering what his case has been to the voters in the state of illinois about moving on without rick santorum at his side? he's made nationally very public his desire for rick santorum to sort of succumb to the math and get out of the way, because he cannot win the necessary number of delegates to get over the top. what's the argument he's made on the ground to say more conservative voters down state, despite the fact he's a little more moderate he's the guy who ought to march forward? >> willie, two points. number one, let me first say that i have been with the governor all over the state. last night here in piura, illinois, both senator santorum and mitt romney held rallies. there were a couple hundred people that showed up for senator santorum. several thousand that showed up for governor romney here in piura on bradley university's campus. even in the more conservative parts of state here in illinois,

the voters have overwhelmingly been showing up in much larger numbers for governor romney and i think it goes well for him in the primary, i predict governor romney will win. the case is real simple. two points. number one, electability and ability to serve once in office. illinois voters, even the most conservative, understand barack obama better than probably most of the nation. nome because they know president obama but they also know his team that is really kind of the chicago machine apparatus who have run state elections here for eck kads, many the same able to get governor blagojevich re-elected for his second term. they know how to run tough and dirty campaigns. we know whoever they nominate will go up against president obama's stated goal, which is $1 billion campaign war chest. governor romney is the only candidate hoop put the plan in place in every state, run competitively in every state, has the wherewithal to go

toe-to-toe with president obama. second, of course, time on the job. i don't want to belabor it. you know the point. the track record turning around straights, businesses and olympics. >> mark halperin. what are two things he did at governor of massachusetts giving you confidence he would govern well if elected president? >> coming from a state like illinois, the deadbeat of the nation, we have record deficits. more debt than any other state in the country. a state like massachusetts, 85% democratic house, democratic senate, with just the republican governor like mitt romney, he got them to balance the budget all four years. i say, give me a president who can balance our budget federally, and that's a reason to stand up and vote for the guy. he's proven not to be able to do it in a republican state with conservatives, but he's been able to do it in one of the most

liberal states in the union. my point has been this. we have no shortage of people with ideas in washington, d.c. it's great to preach to the choir. we need people that can bring people together harks a track record of doing it. number one. number two, he cut taxes 19 times because he understood can you balance the budget in a state like massachusetts by lowering the rate because you create growth. supplies side economics as opposed to the theory administered by the obama administration. finally, he knows how to create a job. he's been in the private sector 25 years. criticized over and over for making all of this money and being successful. look, i want to hire a guy who's successful to be the ceo of the largest organization on earth, which is america. all of sthoof those reasons are enough to vote for this man. >> you predicted he'd win today. do you guarantee it? >> i'm smart enough to know the minute you say something would

happen with certainty it will never happen. so i'm not going to jinx myself, but i can tell you the momentum on the ground is in mitt romney's favor. all the polls show mitt romney leading and i'm confident illinois voters will put the best man forward to go toe to toe with president obama and that going to be mitt romney. >> thank you soch, congressman schock. and more "morning joe" in just a moment. ♪ [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ...to skies around the world... ♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions

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one of the most -- vaunted legs of the stole that president reagan talked about was he talked about the importance of limited government and free people. he understood that government was in the way of free people being able to live their dreams, to work and reap the fruits of their labor and take care of themselves and their family and their community, because he saw it here. we didn't have all of these government programs to take care of people. it was our responsibility as brothers and sisters in a community to look out for each other. some small town america, at this man just said, it still is. >> 34 past the hour. here with us now, conservative writer and tea party grass roots, the aublg author of

"covenant of liberty." hareally only been two year? >> three years. >> feels like a lot longer. >> it does. >> a lot longer. >> it does. >> a lot of progressives. >> good lord. how is the -- tea party, how has the tea party changed since -- >> that's a great question, mika. it started with a bunch of rails which is great. at time, you probably remember this, joe after the election of 2008, people wondered if there was any conservative movement around? i knew there was because i was on twitter and organized top conservatives on twitter. that launched the tea party in february '09. what launched it, financially reckless extremism of the obama administration. >> well, combined with the financially wreck lis extremism of the bush administration that took $155 billion surplus turned it into a $1 trillion deficit, doubled the national debt, passed a $7 trillion medicare

drug benefit plan that rick santorum voted for and other republicans voted for. i mean, this was -- explain how this was a combination of disgust in big spending democrats but also big republicans? >> absolutely right. i talk about it in my book. 1789 to 1931, we had a fiscal constitution. during peace time the government wouldn't spend money that they couldn't, find tax revenues for. you couldn't finance current consumption. debt used only for wars. 4% gdp from 1718 to 1991. you know who broke that fiscal constitution hoover. under obama it's 24%. much, much, much too high. >> so let's talk about the -- you say there are ideological r

origins ev s of the tea party movement has go back to england. a lot of times it's dismissed as being anti-intellectual. what is the foundation? >> to the contrary. we are firmly based in the strong history of the liberty movement, and judicial law from the anglo-american heritage. go back to sir edward cook back in 1610, defined king james who believed in the divine right of kings and set forward the idea that in a constitutional government there were certainly powers for the executive, but also powers for the judicial and for the legislative and when they got out of balance you had difficulties. >> let's talk about the difficulties. again, we certainly know as conservatives what the president has done. he's raised the national debt as much in 3.5 years as george w.

bush did in '08. george w. bush's record horrific. >> absolutely. >> hoar risk. a home man abroad. >> no admiration for george w. bush on fiscal matters. >> so, but what do we say to the rick santorums and the mitt romneys and the newt gingrichs that put out budgets that allow the national debt positive explode as much or more than barack obama? what is the difference for a conservative small government voter between democrats and republicans this year? >> as i argue in my book, we need to cut federal spending in half, from 24% of gdp to 12% of gdp. now, the republicans, even the most, you know, conservative so-called republicans, say it ought to be 20%. and that's a very significant difference. i think the ryan budget is a good start but it's only a beginning. >> you've heard this question before, but i'm interested to hear your answer. joe touched on it a little bit. you pointed to february of 2009.

>> yes. >> as a point when this all began. >> yes. >> quicoincidentally a couple ws after president obama was sworn into office. >> no coincidence. >> the question, where were you in 2003 when medicare part d was passed? when record deficits were going up? where were you during the bush years? >> very good question. the broken promise of the constitution, deliberative accountability. essentially what that means is, in a democracy, you should read the bill, discuss its merits and then vote on its merits. that didn't happen with the stimulus, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. >> did it happen with medicare part d? >> there was some discussion in medicare part d. i think you make a good point, mark. it wasn't as deliberated as it should have been. really, the worst situation was when president obama came in, they had promised transparency. the democratic congress promised they would put bills up for five

days before they vote. they didn't. the president said he'd put a bill up for five days before he signed it. he didn't. so the idea is in a representative democracy. you really ought to deliberate. and that is the promise that has been broken. we want to restore that. >> can't you see how it looks to people, you started this a couple week afrs this one man came into office, where worse things perhaps were happening in the eight years that preceded him? >> a very good point. twitter played a gigantic role in this, because we used twitter, a group that i founded, if you watched twitter, see the tea party hash tag, that's from our group. that communication enabled us to talk and organize in ways we couldn't do part d. good question, but that's the technological answer for t. do you think the tea party has had any responsibility for how coarse the conversation has gone, the negativity and the

disgust what's going on in washington? disconnect between the republican party? >> a good point. i think we believe in open and honest dialogue, and if i say the federal government should only spend 12% of the gdp, and you might disagree and say, let's discuss that and let me explain why. i think what's happened, actually, is that we have been, the tea party movement, has been really quite roundly attacked in the mainstream media, and it's that narrative that has kind of soured the public discussion. >> the tea party, does it hold any responsibility in the sour discussion at all? what is the tea party's responsibility? >> you know if you look at the conduct of the tea party movement. if you look at the rallies that were held, large rallies, they were cleaner after the rally than they were before. the conduct of the tea party has been pretty strong. >> the tea party wasn't around

in 2004, 2005, 2006, when thing was said on television about george w. bush being a fascist and republicans being corporate pigs and war criminals. i can guv awe laundry list of a lot of really nasty, terrible things said about george w. bush. who i haven't been a fan of long before the tea party was founded. we could do the same thing for bill clinton. 1992, 19 -- so this narrative that the tea party invented core dialogue is laughable. >> no. i was just asking -- >> i'm just saying, you always hear the tea party is coarse in debate. you didn't invent that one of the reasons i wrote this book to get that out. >> it's just not even credible. so where does the tea party go from here? because there's a lot of excitement in 2010. we elected a "tea party" majority and yet the "new york

times" reports this past weekend that a lot of times they're meek. they're sheep. they follow their leaders, and, also, numbers don't lie. the national debt went up another trillion dollars. >> i agree. >> and you know the constitution? these guys right here? who did they give the checkbook to? did they give the checkbook to the president? to the senate? who did they give the checkbook to? >> since you served in congress you know the answer to that kwenchts right. the house of representatives. the republican house of representatives have the checkbook. if they don't agree a dollar doesn't get spent. so what's your message to tea party congressmen and congresswomen who aloud tlowed - >> when you talk about 2010 in the house, a lot of people -- we had a project call eade lection day etaert to help them get elected. it takes a long time to develop a candidate, as you probably know. many of the people that ran on

the tea party label were generally conservative but not quite committed to the three-point values of constitutional government, fiscal responsibility and free market. we have to work on them all the time just as we have to help on working the republican candidates line with our views. >> michael patrick leahy. thank you so much. >> tom brokaw says great things about you. >> thanks for being here. siness. monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro.

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what did we learn today? >> a chick-fil-a. every day in high school. >> really? is our loving chick-fil-a started a big fight on twitter? >> no. there's a ground swell. people watch it in new york city. >> you love chick-fil-a. >> what are you doing? >> hockey, without getting a lot of people upset. apparently. no, i am not going to a hockey game. no. >> mark? >> get enough burgers in dallas. i'm going there. >> addictive and poisonous. yes. >> what do you like? >> that's it. >> that's all. >> yes. >> read the "weekend update." this column by joe davidson. never been a huge fan of ted

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