michael steele hopes for silent prayer. that's "hardball" for now. politics with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politicsnation," i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, dramatic new developments in the death of an unarmed teenager, trevon martin, gunned down bay neighborhood watch volunteer. the killing has shocked the nation. and sparked growing calls for justice. today, the civil rights division of the department of justice launched a federal investigation in florida. and in florida, the state's attorney announced a grand jury will now investigate trevon's killing. in today's most stunning development, we learn that trevon martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him moments before his deadly encounter with his killer, george zimmerman. in a riveting news conference, family attorney benjamin crump,

describes what she says happened that night. >> he was talking to this young lady when he went to the 711 and when he came back from the 7-eleven. he tries to get out of the rain. and undenounced to him at all he is being watched or anything. he is just a kid trying to get home from the store and get out of the rain. that's it. nothing else. the rain comes down, down. he then goes and he has his hoody on because it's raining. and he goes back it walking. and he goes back to talking to her again. you will see the phone call when it came in. at 6:54. he then says, you know, there's this -- i think this dude is following me. >> i think this dude is following me. before the day we had only heard george zimmerman's version of the events. but now, for the first time, we

are learning what trevon himself was doing, and saying, in the final moments of that phone call with his friend. >> she heard trevon say, why you following me. that's when she said she hears another voice saying, what are you doing around here. and again, trevon says, why are you following me? that's when she says, again, he says, what are you doing around here. and she sed says trevon is pushed and she hears an altercation going then suddenly somebody must have hit the phone and it went out. because that's the last she hears. >> trevon martin had no idea who was following him. there was no reason for anyone to follow him. he was doing nothing wrong. just talking to his girlfriend. >> her testimony, her testimony that is shown on these phone logs, connects the dots.

completely connects the dots. this young lady details it completely, the tone of the conversation and nature of the conversation and what was happening the last minutes of his life. >> her account completely contradictses zimmerman's version of the story. in which he claims trevon came after him. the family lawyer says she's been devastated by what she heard that night. >> she is traumatized over this. this was her really, really close personal friend. they were dating. and so it is a situation where, to know that you were the last person to talk to the young man who you thought was one of the most special in the world to you, and know that he got killed moments after he was talking to you, is just riveting to this young lady.

>> as you know, we're headed to florida thursday night. the network of the civil rights groups joining us and national radio personalities to demand immediate arrest of george zimmerman. something that should have happened before. what came out today, undiscloses even more. even under the florida law, how can zimmerman say that he used deadly force because he was threatened? when he was pursuing the young man, trevon. trevon was never pursuing him. therefore could never have been threat for him. therefore, you can't use self-defense against someone you were trying to chase down. he should be arrested. we are glad to see the gistis department come in. we will see what the grand jury does, but none of that, none of that should in any way preclude an immediate arrest of george zimmerman for what he did. joining me now, is

representative fredricka wilson, democrat from florida, who represents the district where trevon did live. and new york times columnist, charles blow. la case of trayvon martin. thank you for being here tonight. >> thank you, reverend. >> thank you. >> congressman, let me start with you. we have been through a lot of battle is together. hearing the description from this young woman's phone call, do you believe that the police in any way can argue they handled this case fairly as we have heard cases in the past? >> this is outright outrageous. i can't even imagine the trauma that's going on with that family. and for that family. there is no way this was handled correctly. to me, it's murder. it's racial profiling, followed by murder.

trayvon was killed in cold blood. and that's wrong. and i cannot understand why mr. zimmerman has not been arrested. that is -- this is just uncon junable. this is the 21st century we're in now and still we are racially profiling young black boys. and you know what, reverend? i'm tired of burying young black boys. as i've been saying all day. i have buried them. i have paid for their funerals and this needs to stop. >> well, let me ask you, charles. from the beginning of this case, and i got involved in a couple weeks ago when the attorney called me and he was on this show, we called for the arrest of mr. zimmerman. and the justice department to come in. the justice department is no, no arrest. let me show you what last tuesday, the san ford police chief, explains why zimmerman was in charge. let me show you that.

>> mr. zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense. until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him. >> now, let me ask you, charles blow, if you have a dead young man, no crime, no weapon, no drugs. and you have 911 tapes that clearly has zimmerman pursuing him even after the dispatcher said, do not do it, how is that not probable cause to make an arrest? is it not that this police chief is really trying to try the case like he is the judge and jury? because clearly there's probable cause, and is only enhanced by what the girlfriend's statement is today. >> that's exactly what it looks like from the outside. we don't know what zimmerman's statement actually says.

but the statements that we have from eyewitnesss, there is three of them at this point, now from the girlfriend who is on the phone who is listening to conversation, and it must be stated that hers is a statement is not testimony as was described earlier, it is a statement. someone still has to -- the authorities still have to interview her. but if you believe what she is saying and you believe what the witnesses say, there is probable cause because this child was under suspicion, apparently by mr. zimmerman, based on his own voice on his own 911 tape, for reasons that we cannot fully understand. because nothing of what the child does is in any way criminal, is in any way aggressive. in fact he is retreating from mr. zimmerman, according to the young lady's statement. and in fact, even according to zimmerman's 911 tape, he says, he's running away from me. so we realize that child is

retreating. >> let me push you a little bit then. >> go i ahead. >> because, let's take the young lady's statement away, because you are right, she hasn't testified yet. let's put that aside. let's put aside the witnesses. let's go on the 911 tapes that we hear zimmerman himself, where he describes what is going on. if he said something contrary to the police, that has not faced interrogation. so i'm saying, based on the evidence they have, which is the 911 tapes, they have more than enough for probable cause because the probable cause cannot be cancelled by a statement by the girlfriend or by zimmerman. because zimmerman is not a prayer book either. so whatever zimmerman might have said, they cannot make an arrest or not make an arrest biensd that when they have clear evidence of him saying he was pursuing the guy and the guy was running against him. let me play the tape for you

charles. sfrs. >> these [ bleep ] holes, they always get away. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need to you do that. >> now anything that he may have said to try and explain that is still him saying something after the fact that has to go to a trial and has to be hit with cross-examination. so the police chief can't have it both ways. he can't say, well the girl has to be interrogated but we're just going to believe zimmerman at face value, even though we have tapes clearly giving us probable cause. >> i'm an legal expert. as a citizen of the united states and as a father of two boys, i believe that probable cause was lowered into a grave on march 3rd and that is the body of trayvon martin. that enoualone should be enough hold him, at least until he makes bond or whatever. but to make arrest on one person

that entered into that encounter was had no weapon, committing no crime, had not intruded -- you know, people keep trying to apply florida standard brown law. i cannot figure out how that law might afly in this case. trayvon did not go into his dwelling, house or automobile. in fact, mr. zirmman exited his automobile. number two, mr. zimmerman has a legal hand beg is if he had a holster and wore his handgun all the time or if mr. zimmerman, in looking at this child as a suspicious child, retrieved the handgun and tucked it into his waistband or had it in his hand and held it out. number two, as i spoke to trayvon's mother, that one we see in the burgundy sweatshirt is very recent.

trayvon was a very young looking child. if he was close enough to talk to him and the girlfriend could hear mr. zimmerman on the phone you could look into that child's face and know that is an grown man. this is a boy. you had two opportunities to identify himself as a neighborhood watch person. and did not take those opportunities. trayvon, said why are you following me. he said, why are you here. he didn't say, i'm neighborhood watch. what you are doing here. the way he handled that, he chose not to do that. he knew he was armed with a handgun. when he chose not to. >> and congresswoman, wilson, let me end this with you. the community outrage, and i have noticed this is black and whites, people that have contacted us, from all across the board, the community outrage is that tp. that there's been no action. almost like they felt if they could contain it in san ford they would get way with it until

some of us got involved and made this a national concern. that outrage is that. that the worth of this boy's life has to be held up because then it threatens all of our lives and our kids' lives. >> absolutely. and the people in miami are outraged. his school is outraged. the students are outraged. everyone is outraged. and reverend sharpton, we thank you and i will be there with you thursday. and with congresswoman brown. we will be there to show our outrage. and i just cannot see why this gentleman has not been arrested. there is no answer to that question. and everybody in the congress, all across the aisle, regardless, black, white, hispanic, are asking, what can we do. what can we do to help florida. what can we do to help the florida delegation get justice for trayvon martin. that's the question here in washington today. >> well, congresswoman wilson, thank you. and you have always been on the

case, and i know you'll be on this one. and i have known you a long time. thank you so much. and some of the most insightful writing today, from new york times columnist, charles blow. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you, reverend al. always there, with you. >> thank you. coming up next, the outrageous law that is shielding trayvon martin's killer. we'll investigate it. we will also take a closer look at george zimmerman. why hasn't he been arrested? you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. c'mon dad! i'm here to unleash my inner cowboy. instead i got heartburn. [ horse neighs ] hold up partner. prilosec isn't for fast relief. try alka-seltzer. it kills heartburn fast. yeehaw! without the stuff that we make here,

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the killing of trayvon martin has brought new focus to florida's stand your ground law. the law that allows anyone to use deadly force as long as they say they feel threatened.

is it's the law that's shielding trayvon's killer today but new evidence in this case could destroy that entire defense. we'll talk about that next. of a role in my own life, but with advair, i'm breathing better so now i can take the lead on a science adventure. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator, working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing, take the lead. ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function.

get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. "politicsnation." the man who shot and killed trayvon martin, zimmerman, is a free man today because of one of the most outrageous laws in the country spep. he is hiding behind a law called stand your grounds. it takes the law to extremes. the lawyer for trayson's family talked about it today.

>> self-defense is legal argument you make in the courtroom. not an argument you tell the police and get to go to bed or flee. >> the stand your ground law loosened restrictions on using deadly force at home. it eliminated the duty to retreat in public places. and it gave people who use self-defense civil and criminal immunity. immunity. this law says a judge can dismiss a case, before a trial even begins. as long as you claim self-defense and the people have been using that law to their advantage. in years since, it became law. self-defense homicides have skyrocketed. the number more than tripled in 2009. even police and prosecutors say, this law doesn't work. the former miami police chief says, quote, you're encouraging people to possibly use deadly physical force where it shouldn't be used.

and state attorney willie megs says it is crazy, insanity. stand your ground is the dumbest ground ever put on the books, end of quote. joining me now is former florida state senator steve geler, democrat who spoke out against the law when it was first introduced and criminal defense lawyer and former u.s. attorney kendall coffee. thank you both for being here tonight. >> reverend sharpton, it is hard to determine which is a greater tragedy, the senseless killing of a fine young man or the law that may permit that to occur. without impunity. they are both tragedies. that's, again, one of the reasons i argued against that law when it first passed. if you're familiar with the law, the castle doctrine, that you can defend yourself in the home, originally this law was just supposed to talk about not having to retreat once you're in your home. but it was extended far beyond

that. it basically is make the entire public square your home. and the argument that i had at the time was that it would permit people tomorrow go out and do exactly what happened, that people would die as a result of it. unfortunately, they have, and they will again in the future, as long as this law exists. >> mr. geler, let me go to attorney coffee. let me ask you, because one of the things we are going to be dealing with as we rally around florida, is dealing with this law. let me ask you, as you look at this as a former federal prosecutor, yourself, can this law even be held or be used to free mr. zimmerman? because i even, reading the law, don't understand how given the tapes and now the statement by the girlfriend, if the statement proves to be true, he even can use this law to duck accountability in this. >> we are starting to get some evidence accumulated that could

overcome that kind of self-defense claim. and consider how high the stakes have become. this is about more than just trayvon martin now. because if this shooter gets away with it, and is not charged in anything, then the word is going to be sent far and wide throughout florida and maybe to many other states that have followed florida, that yeah, there is a license to kill in florida. as long as there's no eyewitnesss that see you actually gun him down. and you don't shoot him in the back. so stakes are very, very high here. we are starting to see evidence that actually could be a basis for viable prosecution. it is not going to be easy. these kind of self-defense cases aren't easy. but it is starting to look like the prosecutor will have a case to work with. >> kendall, the concern -- >> go ahead. >> kendall, the concern i've had is we have seen cases like this. the example that i gave at the time was literally under this law, two guys get into an argument in a bar.

go outside, each stapp on a gun belt, straw on each other and whoever survivors can claim he was in fear of his life because of violence of the other person. having said that, i do believe that mr. zimmerman should be arrested because even though he may have a defense, he has to plead that defense. he has to prove that defense. and even though it is a subjective standard, the case says that you must have -- or the law says you must have a reasonable belief that you are in danger. not any belief, a reasonable belief. >> and this is my argument, this is the argument i'm using, mr. coffee, is that the police have seemed to determine in advance, by not arresting him, that his argument is reasonable. when clearly, there is no evidence there that says that on the face of it, should he have to prove that in a court of law, not in a police station.

>> he absolutely should have to prove it. considering what a jury might be looking at, it is simply this. are going to be witnesses that say that someone was crying out for help right before the shooting. >> right. >> someone crying out for help was the guy with the gun or the kid who had skit els and a can of ice tea? >> that's my point. which is why i think you're right. i think mr. geler, i've been saying all along, which is why he needs to be arrested. first of all, we need to have a case that goes in front of a jury. it starts with an arrest, then a charge. and clearly -- >> i agree with you competely reverend sharpton. >> they have not arrested him. which means part of the investigation that i want it see is finding out who in the police department then decided that what he was saying met reasonable -- the statute as you

say, whether there is reasonable threat to him was in fact following the law. to me, they are already acting as the judge and jury here, which is not permitted even under this law. >> i agree with you reverend sharpton. we do need to change this law. >> what kind of investigation took place here? did they get the evidence from different witnesses? did they really dot ground work so they could undertake an aggressive interrogation? or did they just listen to the guy's self serving statement and say, okay. you say it was self-defense, that's good enough for me. i have a pretty clear sense of what the fbi is going to think of the kind of slip shot investigation that apparently happened here. >> i think you're right, mr. coffee. because when you look at the fact that this guy left with his gun when you look at the fact that we are told that the victim who is trayvon martin, was left in the medical examiner's office for several days, they never

even picked up his cell phone to call the numbers, while his father was calling around to hospitals trying to find him. how can you do a thorough investigation when you didn't try to find out who the victim was and you listen to a self serving statement by zimmerman and he walks away with a .9 millimeter. these officers have a lot of questions answer and maybe a court date themselves after the justice department gets sentenced. >> i think most people are agreeing that even though there may be problems with the prosecution, because he would have to -- mr. zimmerman would have to prove a reasonable, but subjective, belief that he was in danger. let him prove that. don't not arrest him, arrest him make him prove to a jury that he had a reasonable, even though it was subjective belief, that he was in fear of grievous bodily harm. we need justice for this young

man. we also need to change the law. >> mr. geler, thank you for that. mr. coffee, i end this by quoting a miami-dade circuit judge who denied a defendant's stand your ground defense. denied it with a judge saying in ordinary circumstancees a push or a slap may be met with a push or slap or perhaps a punch. but not a bullet. there wasn't even a push or a slap here. there was a guy walking home with skit els and ice tea. >> a tragedy. >> stay ahead with us. thank you, gentlemen for being with us tonight. explosive new questions about trayvon martin's killer and whether race was a factor in this case. stay with us. [ donovan ] i hit a wall.

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still ahead, as we have reported, the justice department is now investigating the killing of trayvon martin. was this a hate crime? what is the standard? and what do the 911 tapes from george zimmerman say? important questions. we'll tackle them next.

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that zimmerman committed a hate crime that defined by federal law as quote, a crime in which the defendant intentionally selects a victim, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national orin, ethnicity, gender,entation of a person. meanwhile, we're learning more about george zimmerman himself. he is a 28-year-old former criticismal justice student arrested in 2005 and charged with resisting arrest and battery on a law enforcement officer. the miami hair ald reports, his neighbors say he was quote fixated on crime and focused on young black males. records show zimmerman called 911, 46 times since january 2011 to report disturbances,

break-ins and incidents. today the tapes from some of those calls were released to the public and they show that race was a dominant factor in who he pursued. >> is he white, black or hispanic. >> black. >> is he white, black or hispanic. >> black male, two black males in late teens. >> there's a suspicious characters at the gate of my neighborhood. i've never seen them before. i have no idea what they are doing, just hanging out loitering. >> mr. zimmerman, can you describe the two individuals. >> two african-american males. a gentleman was walking in the neighborhood and i've seen him before on trash days, going around picking up trash. i don't know what his deal is. >> is he white, black or hispanic. >> black. >> joining me now, nbc news correspondent, myra skirakompa.

>> you nailed it. >> i did it this time. and joe madison. myra has been working on this case and joe host a show on sirius xm radio and will be doing the rally from florida live on thursday night. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> myra, let me start with you. you listened to the 911 calls. is there any doubt that face is featured prominently in those calls to you. >> not at all. and i listened to all of them. there were six calls released. in four them he was calling about people. the other two were not complaints about people. in all four of those cases about african-american males. when the question is, what are they doing. essentially they were suspicious by being present on the street. one of the things i found fascinating is he even mentioned to the dispatcher that house that he is concerned about being broken into is owned by a caucasian. sew throws -- >> he says that on the tape.

>> he says i know the resident and the resident is caucasian. sew is mentioning to the dispatcher, we have to protect the property of the caucasian male. >> which should have nothing to do -- >> the race of the victim should have nothing do with trying to protect them with fr a potential krooim crime. this is someone very conscious of race. and he seems they are suspicious by virtue of the fact they are on the street. in the call about trayvon martin, is these a-holes always get away. then he pursues them. this gives context. maybe he was tired of these black men not being apprehended. >> joe madison, you have been strong on your radio show about this and other parts of the tape saying clearly this is not only a crime but you feel a hate crime. >> well, and that's because we did something. we played the tapes related to trayvon martin. and in its entirety. and we had a very astute

listener who said wait a minute, go back, there's a very racial derogatory comment he makes under his breath. and today we brought an engineer up to the studio, reverend al, and we played that tape and can you clearly hear this. now, i don't want to repeat it. but i'm saying, you can go to my facebook, can you go to joe madison.com. it's there. you can hear him. he is either running or getting out of the car. and this right here alone, those two words, will let you know clearly, and i think let the justice department know, exactly his racist attitude. and like i said -- >> which is what they would need to go with a hate crime. you look need this as well. >> absolutely. so the issue with the hate crime is something motivated by bias. the question you have to ask

yourself or a grand jury would have to ask themselves, would zimmerman act the same way were trayvon martin not have been black. so you think you have to look on him being fixated and this is not a hundred percent what he is saying but it sounds like a slur against african-americans. and it could rise to the level of a hate crime. >> i think the fbi will have the technical capability of slowing that tape down and filtering it the way we did at sirius xm and they will be able to clearly hear it. >> let me ask you this. putting the race hate crime aside, because there is a crime here, whether it becomes a hate crime or whether the murder or manslaughter, whichever way the state goes, and i intend to stay on this some will in movement toward justice is made, toward real justice, the national

neighborhood watch patrol, which zimmerman was supposed to follow, says this. this is what they describe as guidelines. it should be emphasized to members that they do not have police powers and they should be pursue vehicles. they should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activities. members should not confrotact members if they could be armed and dangerous. how do you use self-defense as an argument when you have disobeyed guidelines. disobeyed instructions of a dispatch dispatcher. you can't say i felt i was being threatened. because if race is not in it, you have clearly can't use self-defense and you killed

somebody. >> that's true. how does the pursuer pb how does the hunter claim self-defense. that's the question. if you look at the stand your ground law in florida, it says you have no duty to retreat if you feel your life is being threatened. but if you are the one in pursuit it changes dynamics specifically. >> i've got to go, joe, his father, zimmerman's foernl, defended his son in a statement saying he is spanish-speaking with many black family members and friends he. he would be the last to discriminate. if he is partially latino, does that change anything in terms of whether he would have committed a hate crime. >> of course not. first of all, i don't know what he put on his census. he may have put white p. he may have put nonblack hispanic, i don't know. but we know racism exists in all shades, colors of people. this is ridiculous argument. and by wait, the tapes prove just the opposite. so the reality is, we'll be with

you on thursday. well give people a clans to hear it, across the nation. glad you're doing it. we'll be with you 100% of the way. >> let me say this, on a police case in new york, two of the three policemen were black and i marched just the same. it doesn't matter and they were policemen. zimmerman was not. mara, joe, thanks so much for your time. we'll be right back it talk politics. stay with us. .. in here, heavy rental equipment in the middle of nowhere, is always headed somewhere. to give it a sense of direction, at&t created a mobile asset solution to protect and track everything. so every piece of equipment knows where it is, how it's doing or where it goes next. ♪ this is the bell on the cat. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ i love it. i take the stuff everywhere. exactly. everyone's more energized, more alert.

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we'll take a turn to politics with the return of an old friend. he's back. he's paul ryan. and just one day after trying to kill medicare, he is back with with a new why the new one is just as bad as the old one. that's next. or zero dependency on foreign oil. why the new one is just as bad as the old one. that's next. new budget. why the new one is just as bad as the old one. that's next. ] there's construction workers everywhere.

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welcome back to "politicsnation." today paul ryan released his 2013 budget plan and it's deja vu all over again. it makes changes to medicare and favors the rich at the expense of the poor. so there's no surprise, republicans love it. we are going to continue to lead the effort, to bring real fiscal responsibility to our country. >> this plan of action is about putting an end to empty promises from bankrupt government. and restoring the fundamental promise of america. >> we have courageously,

intelligently and responsibly laid out a new plan for america's future. >> courageous, responsible. this brand was slash taxes from high income earners from 35% to 25%. that's courageous? it also lowers corporate tax rates. that's responsible? paul ryan promises to close a lot of pesky tax loop holes. he just doesn't give my specifics. but there is one thing he is specific about. and that's the fact that the poor is going to have to bear the brunt of this plan. he cuts 1.5 trillion from the affordable care act. guts medicate by 770 billion and rips 200 million from medicare. this isn't courageous. it's the act opposite. and it is going to spell trouble for paul ryan, the entire republican congress, as well as willard mitt romney and the rest of the gop presidential field. joining me now is congresswoman

jan gentleman could you ski, democrat from illinois and jill walsh, also an msnbc political analyst. let me start with you. today the gop offers a plan that helps the rich by gutting the poor. haven't they learned anything? >> oh, no. this is ryan 2.0 which is exactly the same with a few changes from the last time. and what it does, is asks the low income and middle class americans to bear the entire burden of deficit reduction while giving huge massive tax breaks to the wealthiest americans and preserving the tax breaks for big oil. the average millionaire and billionaire would receive about $175,000 in tax cuts. >> now, joan, when you hear the congresswoman break down some of what this bill does, what this planned budget does, what i've

said in the opening, listen to what paul ryan says this will do. >> okay. >> do you feel that this budget could have a detrimental effect, the g 0 p presidential nominee in november? >> i really don't. i think all of our candidates campaigned on these various ideas. our nominee, owes it to the country to give them a choice of two futures. we're helping him do that. each person running for president have given their reforms that perfectly jive or -- >> and you wholeheartedly believe they will accept your budget? >> absolutely. >> i don't disagree with them. they have all gone for it. i also think it will be very detrimental wp what do you think, joan? >> i agree. i do think that is one place where paul ryan is actually telling the truth pt. the rest of his party leaders support this. i believe willard mitt romney today came out and affirmatively said so. but you and i both know, r reverend al, this is part snake

oil and part castor oil. the snake oil is that he said he will have tax give aways for the rich and castor oil is for the middle class. we all have to take our medicine and sacrifice. we are the ones who have to sacrifice and the rich strangely never do. i think this is great news for democrats and i think i also agree with him, that it really draws some stark lines between the tw parties as long as our party stands its ground and doesn't get into any kind of cute negotiations around these issues. these people are extremist and you can't compromise with them. >> and congresswoman, not only does it do all of the above that joan said, look at this, it increases military spending while it cuts food stamps, housing assistance, and medicaid. so they will increase the military spending while they, again, go after the most vulnerable and needy in society.

>> and don't forget, once again he destroys medicare as we know it. turns it into a voucher program, meaning that seniors would have to go out and find insurance. oh, he says that they can go to medicare. but it's still a voucher that doesn't keep up with medical inflation. and so, medicare as we know it would be ending. but the food stamp or snap program would also be cut and the requirement, if you want to get on food stamps, would be that you have to have a look far job or have job training. what about all of the children? are they going to have to also go out and look far job? >> yes. >> let's remember the last time he made these medicare proposals, it wasn't that popular. 78% of people polled that time oppose cuts to medicare. so for him to come back with basically the same premise and say, this is not detrimental,

joan, i mean, with friends like that, willard and the rest don't need enemies politically. >> no. and i think we have all got into the language semantic debates over whether it is ending medicare, medicare as we know it. let's just say it ends medicare, reverend al. i don't think any of us are old enough to quite remember this but congress debated for many years, many types of plans that would have provided couchers. would have worked solely through the private system. this was a big debate. and lindon johnson and more progressive democrats prevailed and said, no, we won't leave our seniors to the open market. that's what this is. this is voucher care or maybe ryan care, but it's not medicare. we shouldn't surrender our language to them. he is destroying a public program that people love. >> now, congresswoman, will the either side, those on the other side of the aisle, will they fight for this budget? will we be seeing a public debate on this into the

election? or is this just something he is throwing out and we are not going to have much follow-up to this? >> oh, no. you're going to see a very vigorous debate. one other thing they do in in budget, and it is hidden away, but they go after social security as well. he introducees a plan that reduces age store social curity, reduce the cost of living adjustment. that is hidden away in that budget too. americans of all skrieps. democrats, republicans, and tea partiers don want their social security to be cut. >> thank you. i want to tell you all a little tidbit. today, congressman ryan had on the same tie that had on last time he dropped a budget. he not only repeated what he was wearing, he repeated who he was going to do in with his at et

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we end tonight where we began with trayvon martin, unarmed teen ager shot and killed by neighborhood watch volunteers. we have talked about his death. but now i want to talk about his life. trayvon was born on february 5, 1995. he grew up in the suburbs of miami with his mother and older brother. he was a 17-year-old high school junior who played football when he was younger. he used to attend games at university of miami with his brother and uncle. trayvon hoped to become an airplane mechanic when he grew up. math was his favorite subject in school. one of his teachers said, quote, he was extremely creative and he just loved building things. he was really intrigued by how things worked. and an a and b student who majored in cheerfulness. tray veen death has devastated everyone who knew him. >> he was very outgoing young

man. he was upbeat. an upbeat individual. i was molding my son to be a man. a young man. >> he watched my two kids. he baked cookies. he did whatever you needed him to do. whatever you needed, you could always count on trayvon. >> he was mild-mannered. he was a nice kid. >> i want you to understand that this was a human being. a kid like your kids and my kids. what did he do to deserve to lose his life? if you can't answer it, that's why we're demanding, others have to. because every child, 17, should not have to face this. and this is what this is about. fairness, justice, that's all. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now.