Skip to main content

tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  March 21, 2012 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

2:00 pm
depressing. >> wonderful commentary. thank you for calling us bath from the edge of pessimism. >> i did my best, thank you. >> that does it for us today. i'm matt miller in for dylan ratigan. "hardball" starts right now. clean slate. let's play hard ball. good evening with i'm chris matthews down in washington. leading it night, the etch-a-sketch candidate. but now, the republican base has new reason it worry. the romney campaign is talking about wiping the slate clean and starting all over for the general election. listen to romney aid eric fern strom. >> well i think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. everything changes.
2:01 pm
almost like an etch-a-sketch, you can shake it up and we start all over again. >> shake it up and start again. so everybody we have heard from romney so far doesn't matter. we can just start over. that what mieblg al would call a gaff. when you actually tell the truth and that won't help romney with the base. here is another challenge from republican. some polls show they are losing ground among women. maybe because of a slew of new measures restricting birth control and abortion. tennessee's proposal to publish the names of doctors who perform abortions and details about the women who have them. president obama has a secret women waepon himself. first lady, michelle obama who is hitting campaign trail for her husband right now, and later our continuing coverage of the case of trayvon martin, the unarmed african-american teenager who was killed in florida. what happened in the final moment of his life. finally, romney finally
2:02 pm
getting it done, but not winning the hearts and minds. we begin with mitt romney's ice issive win in illinois. just in the lick of time by jeb bush. chuck todd chief white house correspondent and susan page. who doesn't respect jeb bush? what does this endorsement mean the day after you win the big primary in illinois. >> when it comes via a press release then tweet. then not exactly making sure there is no huge event like for chris christie. what it does it says what the statement said. time now, jeb bush said what it is. he didn't say mitt romney has proven to be the candidate i envisioned to be the president of the united states. none of that. he just said it is time for republicans to unite. >> well, he's not going to be the nominee. >> i think we knew that. >> pining for jeb bush -- >> is different. jeb was holding this out because he was not happy with mitt
2:03 pm
romney. this is less about anything other than not happy with mitt romney's rhetoric on immigration. >> he still isn't. >> does this start haley barber or mitch daniels. >> i helped you swallow that. immigration isn't like -- >> you know, when romney first -- >> he is married to a mexican-american. >> when romney first ran for president, there were a lot of bush people in florida who admitted that jeb was fired up about mitt romney. and liked the idea after hands-on governor. he watched him go through the campaign, go to the right on ma immigration. use it as a wedge against mccain. he didn't like it. didn't like it again. he has even been critical of the tone and rhetoric used on the issue of immigration. i think this endorsement is bowing to reality of the situation. when you know all of that backdrop, and you read the statement, i think it is kind ever telling. >> it is interesting he married
2:04 pm
a woman from mexico. who is hispanic. >> then his own record on issues involving hispanics is strong. a lot of appeal with hispanics and an example of the kind of republican who figures out how can you win over hispanic voters and not just cube an americans in florida. but also mexican americans. >> the statement released this morning, jeb bush said in part, primary elections held in 34 states and now the time for republicans to unite behind governor romney and take our message of fiscal conservative and i'm endorsing mitt romney for our party nomination. we face huge challenges and we need a leader who understands the economy. he believes in entrepreneurism. and makes sure that all-americans have the ability to succeed. pretty general stuff there. let's go to wise guy -- can i say wise-ass comment by newt
2:05 pm
gingrich, his guy, which is classically good. a dw line comes out of him. quote, his guy, rc hammond, right? >> good with snark. >> everybody ready for this? rc hammond says this is the jeb endorsement, quote. it is a completion of thes establishment trifecta. he was talking about herbert walker bush and then bob dole -- and he throws in bob dole. >> jeb is different. jeb has been treated different from the rest of the bushes. that there is more after trust of jeb in the heart and soul of the conservative movement that there was frankly for the rest of the bush family. >> now for the best part of the show. this is something i've been waiting for for weeks. aid eric ferhnstrom made a comment that could come back it haunt him, let's listen. >> well, i think you hit a reset
2:06 pm
button, for the fall campaign. everything changes. it is almost like an etch-a-sketch. you can kind of shake it up and we start all over again. here is what newt gingrich said about the etch-a-sketch. he shows a picture of one. we got a copy of this? here is a video of it. let's take a look. he is showing an actual etch-a-sketch. let's watch. >> given everybody's fears about governor romney's flip-flops. to have his communications director say publicly to all of us, if we are dumb enough to nominate him, we should accept by his speech, he will go back left, triggers everything he talked about. >> it is like the flash light we used to use in boy scouts. here is santorum jumping on the remark as well, let's listen. >> it's like an etch-a-sketch.
2:07 pm
he said you just turn it over and shake it and then you start all over. imagine, had mitt romney been around at the time we were drafting our constitution. he would have just shaken it. ladies and gentlemen, this is the first of what i will call my etch-a-sketch tool of america. this is like the old senator, and mrs. smith goes to washington. everything they said about me is true. it is like saying everything you said about mitt romney, a flip-flopper, can't believe a word he says, it'll change. a mood ring bb it will be different. an etch-a-sketch, we used to have those things, you wrote it on it then it disappeared when you lifted it up. all of the commitments about everything are yesterday's news now. >> you should buy stock in the
2:08 pm
company that makes etch-a-sketch because there will be a run on those by not just list republican opponents, but the obama people. >> are the obama people handing them out. >> they launched this and newt and santorum -- >> they launched the reaction. >> you could not say a more damaging thing about mitt romney. >> he has to fire the guy. how does he live with the fact his biggest guy said this without laying on and beg for forgiveness. >> his campaign reached out. they is think he t should be clear he obviously was referring to the campaign reset that happens between primary and general versus resetting the candidate's positions. they are saying is resetting the candidate's position. there is a -- it's been an accepted fact of life that nominees of major parties -- >> i'm not going to stand for this. i'm not going to give -- >> let me finish.
2:09 pm
>> okay. >> there t is standard primary that one way in -- and then you run to the middle and run to -- >> you make statements you have to live with. usually within the current year. >> you make and walk through. >> this is good for year. >> you try figure out how to say things that won't alienate your base and then be something that could -- >> a year i go he said, i'm to the et left and ted kennedy on gay rights -- >> i'm just saying -- >> the art of politics does it in way where it doesn't become discussion for days and days and days. >> for romney, this has been the thing that dogged him ever since he started running as conservative. is that wait a minute, you didn't run as conservative the two times you ran. >> i think it may be the story of the week. this is one of those wonderful metaphors you look for. like jimmy carter and hostages. you want it find a hot hostage is, okay that's weakness. a guy you say two-faced, you
2:10 pm
pull out machine that is two-faced. he is going to be accused of being an etch-a-sketch. this is the bill yant brilliant in saying you don't know if he is the same guy on tuesday as he is on wednesday. >> so we know that santorum, believes what he believes. newt gingrich has been on many sides of issues, but than he changed position because it is a different -- >> what was the new york times headline today? going through writings of sam santorum. the headline is, he is strikingly consistent. as if it was a shock to them that a politician might be consistent in views and statements. that is rick san santorum in a nutshell. what he was in 1998 and 2000. >> how about consistent within the year. is that asking too much? let's go to some other interesting developments. i do consider this the number one issue that i will ring like a bell here.
2:11 pm
let's look at this one. eric, apparently one of the real touch stones of the could be servetive movement on his site, red state, wrote this morning quote rick saner to um will probably win louisiana. conservatives rally to santorum as nominee. but it will not be enough. romney will do well in new england and remaining mid-atlantic states and do well out west winning california. he will be the nominee. don serve tifs may not like mitt romney but do not want a fractured party too divided to beat barack obama p. there will be no white night, no dark horse, no brokered convention. we have our nominee. pretty profound. >> we thu this three weeks ago. the question always was, could somehow, because you knew it wouldn't be santorum. what was jeb bush waiting for? that was always, to me, and i still think it is odd that you still have sitting out there, barber, daniels, brie rye an. >> all holding out. >> what are they holding out for? are they really debating between
2:12 pm
santorum and romney? i don't believe it. i would put them to a lie detector test. my theory is simply, they're worried, embracing romney too soon could come back it haunt them some day when they run for president. and they want to get -- >> they don't want it on the record. >> they don't want him -- >> they're not etch-a-sketches. >> but they'll endorse him. >> of course they will but not in way that -- >> by press release and tweet. >> can you get to 1144 by june at this point? >> tell me who is in wisconsin and i will tell you who gets 1144. i think wisconsin is everything. >> thank you. coming up, republicans are passing a slew of new measures restricting access to birth control and abortion. they are losing support of women in many polls right now. that's ahead. ush watching "hardball" only on msnbc. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back.
2:13 pm
they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense.
2:14 pm
president obama is leading challenges among independents in a dozen swing states. let's check the "hardball" score board. president leading romney by 8 point. ohio, virginia, north carolina, pennsylvania, new hampshire, minnesota, wisconsin, iowa, colorado, new mexico and nevada. he leads rick santorum in those states by 11. 15-39. that's pretty strong. last month, santorum had two-point lead over president in the same poll of swing states. president obama's benefiting is more and more independents say the economy is getting better. big news there. we'll be right back. i heard they found energy here. it's good. we need the jobs. [customer:] we need to protect the environment. [worker:] we could do both.
2:15 pm
is that possible? [announcer:] at conocophillips, we're helping power america's economy with cleaner, affordable natural gas. more jobs. less emissions. a good answer for everyone. well, if it's cleaner and affordable. as long as we keep these safe. there you go. thanks. [announcer:] conocophillips.
2:16 pm
they call it war on women. and as a woman, i'm here to tell you, that democrats are off base. as americans look a little deeper into these issues with what they see is that republicans are not trying to undermine women's health, what they see is that democrats are trying to scare american women.
2:17 pm
>> wow, welcome back to "hardball." that was my next guest republican congresswoman from washington state. just this sunday, senator john mccain add different take. let's listen to him. >> do you think there is something of a war on women among republicans. >> i think we have to fix that. i think there's a perception out there because of the way that this whole contraception issue played out p we need to get off of that issue, in my view. i think we ought to respect the right of women who make choices in their lives and make that clear. and get back on to what the american people really care about. jobs and the economy. >> women in the 2012 vote in access to health care, how will this affect electiones this year. joining me is sheila simon and u.s. congresswoman kaj rick rogers vice chair of the house. thank you both for voin joining me. we have a couple points.
2:18 pm
in virginia, congresswoman, what do you make of the charts that nancy pelosi is making in her new fund-raising letter that there is a war on women wablged by republicans. >> the reality is in 2010 the republicans won the women's vote. and the democrats know that in order to win the presidency in order to win the seats in the house and senate, that they have to scare women. that they have to win the women's vote and they are trying to scare women by manufacturing this war on women to really district american women as well as americans in general of the real issues. the real issues are that president obama's policies are failing. whether it is economic policies, healthcare policies or debt he is leaving to our children and grandchildren. >> governor simon, your view on this. is it fair to accuse war on women or is that too strong. >> i don't know if it is too strong. but there are stush mishs and what scares us is attacks on our rights.
2:19 pm
we want to protect the basic constitutional rights that we have grown to depend on. >> in virginia where a law requiring a women to have mandatory ultra sound before abortion, a new poll showing voters diagree by huge 51-point margin. virginia voters say governments should not make laws which try to convince women seeking an abortion to change their minds. congresswoman, where are you on that poll? are you with the 72 or 21. >> i'm here to say that poles are showing that the the debate that's been in congress is over the right of conscience. on those polls, american people are with the republicans position and that obama's approval rating with women is at a record low, at 41%. i believe when women look at these issues, little deeper, that they see it is not about any kind of war on women by the republicans. >> let's get to the rhetoric then. okay. i'll ask you the question they put to women voting in virginia.
2:20 pm
should the government try to discourage a whom shows up at an aborti abortion clinic to have the procedure? should there be steps taken at that point? at that point to discourage her to fr going ahead? what is your principle answer. >> i would say, you know, that is not the issue that's on the forefront of voters mind. >> what's your position on that issue. >> it is an example where i believe there is an effort under way by democrats to really distract americans from the real issues. which is the economy, j healthcare, the debt we are passing on to the next generation. >> why are they doing it in an election year for president. you say distraction, fair enough. why srt legislators, as in virginia, put be this legislation which is so controversial in the midst after presidential election? they shouldn't be doing it but they are. what is your position? >> in washington state there is a social agenda being driven by
2:21 pm
democrat legislature. they passed gay marriage, which will be on the ballot this fall. they are working on other pieces of social agenda. i'm here to say it is all a distraction from the real issue facing americans. and we need to get back to the debate of economy, jobs, healthcare. women make 85% of the healthcare decisions in this country for themselves, their families. and they are fearful. the scary part is that federal government might step in and start making their healthcare decisions. >> i think healthcare really is the question that we are talking about here. and as congresswoman mentioned it is women making decisiones about healthcare. that's where we are getting scared in virginia, peeling away at our constitutional rights. >> congresswoman, i want to give you a list. over the past decade, the number of states hostile to abortion, enacting four or month provisions put up a hurdle for women seeking one has doubled
2:22 pm
here. is just a sample of what is happening in various states np p arizona, a series of bills in the works right now, limiting abortion access. republican representative sent this e-mail wrb quote, personally i would like it make a law that mandates watching an adorgs being performed prior to having the procedure. in utah the governor just signed a law extending the waiting period from 24 hours to 72 hours. that's three days. in tennessee a bill that would have mandated publication of information identifying abortion providers, doctors and possibly their patients was to strip the requirements. perhaps in reaction to the national criticism. all of the state legislatures have been busy bees out there pushing this stuff, adding hurdles to this kind of decision by a woman. my question is, is it the democrat raising the issues, social concerns, you say are distracting. soar it conservative
2:23 pm
legislatures led by republicans. >> i serve in congress, the house released its budget yet yesterday and the criticism that came immediately from the women democrat women in the house that they said was anti-woman. that's where i say. that distraction from the real issues. the reality is, republicans won the woman's vote in 2010 and democrats know they have to win the woman's vote and that they are scared. these are scare tactics to scare women. and they have -- they have often used the adorgs -- >> i'm just have asking, who tactics. >> how do they get republicans legislatures to make the proposals. they get the virginia legislation it bring up abortion and the santorum to talk up contraception. these democrats are ventriloquists. how do they get the republicans to say all this stuff. they really are masterful, i would say. i'm being sarcastic. you but know the evidence is
2:24 pm
right wing social activist and your party is giving democrats cat nip here, right? you're admitting that. >> there a lot of left wing social activists that are also pushing their agenda in various legislators, legislatures in here in congress, the same thing. what i'm here it say is that when it comes to women right now, two out of three businesses are started by women. they understand firsthand the challenges that they face in trying to start a business, grow a business, regulatory nightmare because of the federal government that makes it harder and harder. tax burden. women make the healthcare decisions and they don't like the idea of the federal government making these decisions. those are the issues. >> well, let me just tell you, if you run against cantor for speaking, i'll endorse you, okay? >> i'm not sure that would be very helpful. >> i well it wouldn't help you, but it would be fun. >> let me tell you this, i think have you a weak case because i think a lot of right wing social art vists get elected on the tax
2:25 pm
issue. right, governor in the minute they get into office they push the screaming right wing social agenda. the tea party mustment of 2010, congresswomen, had nothing to do with abortion and contraception. >> right. >> why are you pushing it. >> i'm in congress, we are talking about economy and get bagging to work. >> there was a very common sense measure that helps protect women, there are reasons why women are paying attention to these issues right now. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> you come from a great family. i hate it sound like an eeld guy but your father is great too. i knew your father. the fact is, paul simon was great. thank you congresswomen, for coming to "hardball." you don't know how much it means to me to have you on the show. to have a brilliant talent on the ladder. i think you're on that ladder. some of lighter moment from last night's st. patrick's day celebration at white house. ways there.
2:26 pm
you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro.
2:27 pm
who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%, you can save on your monthly prescription. [ male announcer ] dosing and application sites between these products differ. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or, signs in a woman which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are, or may become pregnant or are breast feeding should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet,
2:28 pm
or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. talk to your doctor today about androgel 1.62% so you can use less gel. log on now to androgeloffer.com and you could pay as little as ten dollars a month for androgel 1.62%. what are you waiting for? this is big news. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪
2:29 pm
back to "hardball." now to the side show. first up, the luck of the irish. st. patrick's day didn't end on saturday. this is now dibd st. patrick's week at a reception last night president obama joked about receiving a gift from his irish counterpart, the topic, well think birth certificate. let's watch. >> an on your behalf of your historic homecoming mr. president, it is my honor to present to you, on behalf of the irish people, and of the government, this formal certificate of irish heritage. >> well, thank you, first of all, this will have a special
2:30 pm
place, along side my birth certificate. >> back in 2007, the president discovered he had some irish ancestors, believe it or not. some republicans have not put that birther nuttiness to bed. cliff stearns said just yesterday, i am, shall we say, looking at all of the evidence. what a joke. so the little clown show continues on. next up, where was ron paul while mitt romney and rick santorum are aweight the result of the illinois primary in sitting down with jay leno on the tonight show. talking about that he and romney are in cahoots and why he doesn't want secret service protection as candidate. let's watch. >> there are rumors going around that there is a secret deal with you and mitt romney. you seem to be friendly. >> right. >> anything to that? >> there is something about it, very secret, because he and i
2:31 pm
don't know a whole lot about it. >> should newt gingrich get out of the race? >> i'm not telling him what to do but i think the other three should just get out of the race. >> why did you reject the secret service protection? seems like that would be a -- >> well, it is a form of welfare. you are having the taxpayers pay it take care of somebody. i'm an ordinary citizen. >> secret service codes were the buzz yesterday. when it was revealed that mitt romney chose to be called javelin while rick santorum chose petris, as in st. peter. and paul says he would take pitbull even though he is out of the race. and wh wow. this is new. yep, i'm sending the dancing chicken to every store
2:32 pm
in the franchise to get the word out. that could work. or you could use every door direct mail from the postal service. it'll help you and all your franchisees find the customers that matter most -- the ones in the neighborhood. you print it or we'll help you find a local partner. great. keep it moving, honey. honey? that's my wife. wow. there you go. there you go. [ male announcer ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. [ male announcer ] strip away the styling. strip away the rearview monitors, tv screens, bluetooth, and even the cup holders. you know what's left? the only s.u.v.s with american-built f-alpha truck frames. the ruggedly capable pathfinder, xterra, armada. nissan. innovation for all. ♪
2:33 pm
[ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.
2:34 pm
2:35 pm
i'm hampton peerson with your cnbc market wrap. dow is down, s&p loses two. nasdaq up by a point. home sales fell 1% in february. but home prices rose slightly for the first time in four months. hewlitt packard shares fell more than 2% after announcing it would combine its th c and printing businesses. green mountain coffee roasters jumped 10% following the expansion of its existing deal with starbucks. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." > . back "hardball."
2:36 pm
it's been three weeks since the shooting of trayvon martin by george zimmerman. pressure is mounting for zimmerman to be arrested but a self-defense law in florida known as stand your ground, allows the person perceived threat to use deadly force without retreating from confrontation. we will talk about this right now. now benjamin crump, lawyer for the martin family, says new evidence provide bade teened by a teen age girl closes flaws in zimmerman's defense. let's listen to that. >> he had no intention of getting back in his truck, doing what the police instructed him to do. he kept pursuing trayvon martin. how do we know? because this young lady connects the dots. she connects the dots. she completely blows zimmerman's absurd self-defense claim out of the water. >> so will the zimmerman defense work? let's go to jasmine rand a
2:37 pm
lawyer, also representing the martin family. and kendall coffey, former u.s. attorney down there. so i'm trying to find out different theorys. i guess we are trying to get to the fact and to the law. i want to get to the fact of the case as we can possibly determine them, not having been there p.m. thank four coming on the program. can you get us -- do you have a theory in your mind, sort after cinematic notion, of what happened in those tragic moments down in florida? >> and i think that the 911 tapes say it all, especially zimmerman's initial call to the officers. when he says on there that he is -- that he sees trayvon, who he identifies as a suspicious person. the only reason he was suspicious was he identifies him as black, and as a black male wearing a hoody. you know, we know now that there was nothing suspicious about trayvon, that all he had on him was a pack of skittle se an an ice tea. >> i know you are making be a
2:38 pm
argument but stay to the key fact here. who what is going on in terms of the actions two of the people. what actions did the two of them take that led to the killing? give us a sense of the action of the two of them. this guy gets out of his car. moving after the guy. the teenage boy killed was talking through the neighborhood. he began to pursue him, then what do you believe happened. >> i think he began it pursue him. we have the 17-year-old witness who fame forward and said she was on the phone with trayvon in the final moment with his life that trayvon reported to her he was being followed and she told him to run. zimmerman says that trayvon began to run on his audio portion so the last thing we know is that trayvon ran, the witness said that trayvon lost zimmerman and it's clear that zirmman pursued and followed trayvon, found him behind the apartment and shot and killed him. >> what is your sense of motive for the killing? >> i mean, i think the motive for the killing has a clear racial undertones.
2:39 pm
>> what is the motive though? >> i'm not in zimmerman's head. i don't know his true motivations. >> do you believe there was a confrontation which was physical and in any way endangering to zimmerman in those last moments? >> i do not believe that. and i think that the evidence is clear. zimmerman had a 9 millimeter. trayvon had a pack of skittles. >> okay, let me go over to kendall coffey. in this case, trying to find out what happens, what is going to happen if this goes to court and trying to determine a sense of what happened. was it a guy that went out to do a murder because he was out to get a black kid? it was a guy who tried to stop someone he thought was a burglar or robber and then got involved in a scuffle with him? are we going to be able to get to something about the nature of this tragedy? >> chris, that's a really important question. to prosecute a case you have to have a realistic theory of what actually happened. and we all know that if you go
2:40 pm
too far, like the casey anthony case, which is notorious, and you claim it is first degree pre medcated and you don't have the facts it back it up, you could blow the whole thing. these have been very tough case at any level to get prosecution. so they have to come up with a theory that's realistic, work and can somehow overcome the giant obstacle of the florida stand your ground law, which defeated a lot of livous prosecutions. here is what i think the theory is. this guy is self appointed vigilante want to be cop who thought, maybe because somebody happened to be black, that he was a crook up to no good. i do suspect there was racial profiling in the mind-set of george zimmerman. so he the wannabe cop, self appointed vigilante runs after the kid. he is running them down. then in some moments very difficult to reconstruct because the only one who survived it is zimmerman. the does zimmerman, i suspect had a gun on the kid wab was in some fashion trying to get control of the situation, play
2:41 pm
cop. and trayvon either was trying to get away or moved in some quick awab not at all menacing, not threatening. i don't think there was justification. but something happened that caused zimmerman, not trained, to exercise the lethal force, to kill the kid. i don't think he woke up that morning planning to kill somebody but i think that his culpability was enough to justify some charge of homicide. >> jasmine, ms. rand, let me ask you this about what you have been able to discover from prosecutors or d.a. on you down there, states's attorney. i heard from pro diducers that y won't use stand your ground, that they will use standard self-defense. what is their case, from your point of view? >> i had a one on one meeting with the assistant state attorney pat whisker about two days guy now. and that is correct. what he told me, thus far, is that they do not intend to use the stand your ground or council doctrine and they are looking at
2:42 pm
strict self-defense. what concerns me about what i heard from state attorney is when i began the conversation, opening an open-ended question, why hasn't an arrest been made the state attorney told me he is continuing to investigate the claim to see if wlrn there a valid claim for self-defense. when asked whether or not is his job to prove zimmerman's defense web says, no it's not. so i understand that he is looking at the case from all different angles. but he didn't begin the conversation by saying, i'm looking to see if there is enough evidence to prove man slaughter or murder. he began the conversation saying, i'm look fog prove self-defense and his word choices are indicative to me of his mind-set. >> let me go to mr. coffey again. in a standard self-defense case, as you describe what might be a theory to the case that there is a move toward him or some sense of personal endangerment, under the standard law, forget stand your ground, just common law, motion of self-defense, what does it require for a person to shoot somebody?
2:43 pm
if someone is going to slap you and run awab, can you kill him because you didn't want to be slapped and run away. if someone pushes you and run away. or gives you lip. or threatening your life. what is the rule here in law? >> the rule in florida, like most places, is you have it reasonably believe that someone is trying to kill you. that someone is trying to do serious bodily harm or in florida, somebody is committing what amounts to a forcible felony. you have to have reasonable basis for that. that's why, i think at the end of the day, there is not valid self-defense. those tough to get prosecution successfully turning into conviction in this kind of case, chris. >> let's hope we can get to the case and facts. we are trying to figure out the law. thank you so much ms. rand for coming on the program. >> thank you. >> thank you so much kendall coffee. we will look at this case for several days. why is a guy armed if he is on neighborhood watch. neighborhood watch people
2:44 pm
shouldn't carry arms. why is a gi acting like a cop who isn't a cop. these points of incredible tranl tragic discretion where you have to make a snap decision, here a guy carrying a gun making decisions of life and death. up next, the president obama's best asset ease runs for second term. fairs first lady michelle obama. is she going to come out and be a star in this campaign? let's find out. it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities...
2:45 pm
america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering. it's real milk full of calcium and vitamin d. and tastes simply delicious. for those of us with lactose intolerance... lactaid® milk. the original 100% lactose-free milk.
2:46 pm
we're in thick of a 2012 presidential campaign obviously but senator of new york made her candidate clear for 2016. hillary clinton. here is what she told buzz feed today. i will be one of the first to ask hillary to run in 2016. i think she would be incredibly well poised to be the next democratic president. i think she is extremely well prepared. by the way, she was replaced in the senate when former first lady became secretary of state. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor.
2:47 pm
yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.
2:48 pm
you should know that just one dose of children's advil® gives up to eight hours of fever relief. allowing your little one to get back to building a better afternoon. children's advil.® relief you can trust. chocolate lemonade ? susie's lemonade... the movie. or... we make it pink ! with these 4g lte tablets, you can do business at lightning-fast speeds. we'll take all the strawberries, dave. you got it, kid. we have a winner. we're definitely gonna need another one. small businesses that want to grow use 4g lte technology from verizon. i wonder how she does it. that's why she's the boss. because the small business with the best technology rules. contact the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 1-800-974-6006.
2:49 pm
>> i think i think she's great. what is it about michelle obama
2:50 pm
that makes her a poll for her husband's reelection. here is ager of the obama's. and eugene robinson, general man who who knows many things knowsy issues. he is an msnbc poll analyst. let's go to my question. congratulations jody on the book, why three years of hider her as the mother of the president's children, not actively political, what has changed? >> she has been accumulating and guarding her political capital all this time. this is the big one, the last race, and she is all in determined to see her husband reelected. >> why hasn't she been used before? when democrats are getting their butts kicked, why did they not put her out there then.
2:51 pm
>> she did about eight events, and there was tension in the white house about how much she was willing to do. her own feeling is she was not willing to put herself out there as much for congressional candidates as for her own husband. her job is getting her husband reelected. >> so she is not madame democrat? >> no, there have been questions about how much the president sees himself as the head of the democratic party, and she did go out there and campaign for democrats, but it's clear this time she's on a mission, she believes in her husband's presidency, and she talks about watching from the front lines. the michelle obama eye view of what her husband has accomplished. she stresses his sincerity. part of her role is to rally the base, and she stresses the fact that he has not accomplished everything he wanted to do, but
2:52 pm
she wants democrats to hang on for another four years. >> gene, i want to ask you about particulars. >> generally, i think she is doing what first ladies do. her primary loyalty is to the president and his agenda. they are certainly partners in this endeavor as she is a trusted advisor, you know. she went to harvard law too. and it -- and so, i think this is -- this reflects what she sees as her roll as a partner, like jody said. >> the first lady repeated a bit of a stump speech talking about the supreme court. she told the audience "let us not forget what their decisions -- the impact those decisions will have on our lives for our decades to come -- on our privacy, security, if we can
2:53 pm
worship openly, and love who ever we choose. "some of the gay community took that as a wink to the gay community. here is what jay said yesterday. >> she has said this before and has for some time, and that is a reference to the president's position on the defensive marriage act. they believe gay and lesbian americans deserve legal protections. it was clearly more than -- love whomever we choose, come on. >> the president goes both ways on this issue. >> the first lady -- how do you read this in english, love whomever we choose. >> this is not a first lady interested in making news. she plays it so safe. she does so few interviews when she talks, it's often about
2:54 pm
school lunch and what not. she's not looking to be in the headlines or cause controversy. >> this is. >> it may have been the smallest of winks, but it's a line she used before, and maybe it's in the white house's benefit to have it be read both ways. >> jody, here we make news, we don't nuance or shade. congratulations jody on your book, and congratulations on you gene robinson. how did the republicans end up with romney? they're not in love, they're just in line. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc [ baby crying ] ♪ what started as a whisper ♪ every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. ♪ slowly turned to a scream ♪ there's an insurance company that does that, too.
2:55 pm
liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? ♪ amen, omen who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%, you can save on your monthly prescription. [ male announcer ] dosing and application sites between these products differ. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or, signs in a woman which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are, or may become pregnant
2:56 pm
or are breast feeding should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. talk to your doctor today about androgel 1.62% so you can use less gel. log on now to androgeloffer.com and you could pay as little as ten dollars a month for androgel 1.62%. what are you waiting for? this is big news. i love it. i take the stuff everywhere. exactly. everyone's more energized, more alert. i've lost their respect. last night i hit on a dirty hyena and she laughed in my face. that's nasty. remember when i used to be it? i was the man. you needed to track the gazelle down for dinner, you came to me. oh who's laughing now!? gazelle!!
2:57 pm
[ laughs ] [ male announcer ] personal, portable mio energy. shake things up.
2:58 pm
let me finish tonight with this. the man on the white horse is not coming to save the republican party. no lone ranger. it will have to be one of the tan members that saves the day, a businessman from main street. this is how the story will be told, mitt romney, a man of business, heading out at high noon to come face to face with the president. how did it come to this? the republican party has been picking it's champions since the same way i've been paying attention. they go for the man that's been beaten up some, but he waited his term.
2:59 pm
just like george herbert walker bauch and john mccain. he has gotten to where his chance has arrived. democrats feed the hot hand, a guy comes along, a jfk, bill clinton, or obama, they pass him the ball. they want to see ls next to the guy on the record before they get a w. ask bush senior, bob dole, or john mccain. so coming out of illinois is mitt romney, veteran of 30 primaries and caucuses, and a far greater number of wounds, most of them self-inflicted. he may not have much sparkle left, but he certainly knows the rounds now. he has taken enough abuse to know who his friends are, they are the people that have now come to accept him. no matter how much they put off