they wait for a man on a horse. they accepted romney without excitement because they never felt the strength of commitment one feels in the leader that comes to the rescue, and that remains a problem, doesn't it? that's "hardball" for now, thanks for being with us, "politics nation" begins now. >> good evening, tonight, the growing national outrage over the killing of trayvon martin. the teenager shot by a self appointed neighborhood watch volunteer. people wonder how this tragedy could have happened, and they're crying out for justice, and demanding that our justice system look out for the cheerful young man that was not looking for trouble, but just simply

walking home. a case full of questions that demand answers. what took so long for the police to notify trayvon's parents about the death of their son. why wasn't the suspect, george zimmerman arrested? why has he been able to claim self defense when the facts contradict that claim that in fact he traced trayvon. why is he still free and able to carry a weapon. we will answer these questions and in the name of justice for trayvon martin. joining me now are tracey martin, sybrina fulton, and they're lawyer benjamin crump. before we head into florida tomorrow heignight. let me start with you, you said

all you want is justice, you want zimmerman arrested? >> yes, sir. >> how have you been handling this? i ahead that you said it's hard to sleep and eat until you see justice with the arrest of this man? >> yes, my heart is hardened right now. i'm finding it difficult to do just daily things right now. in addition to grieving, i'm just consumed with the fact that this guy has not been arrested who murdered my son. so that is very difficult for me as a mother. i cry every day. there is a hole in my heart because that was my baby. regardless of how old he gets, he was my baby. so it's difficult for me on a daily basis. but i'm just trying to take one

day at a time and i know that god is in control. >> the strength that you and the mother have shown has been amazing. let me ask you, why did it take the police so long to contact you? do you know? >> actually, i contacted the police myself. >> so they never made contact? >> not the initial contact. i called trayvon was missing, i called missing persons, filed a missing person's report. they sent officers out and said they would dispatch a unit to the residence. they called back about ten minutes later and asked what he had last been seen wearing and gave a description of him. >> how long had he been missing?

>> since he had left the house, which had to have been over 12 hours, 12 or 13 hours. >> then what happened? >> three units pulled up, there was an unmarked car and a service aid car which, the service aid car, was a chaplain in it. i didn't know it because he just had on a regular uniform. the first officer that approached i identified myself and said i was filing a missing person's report. the second officer approached, he introduced himself as a major crimes investigator. at that time it didn't register to me. he asked me to describe my son, i described him to him, he went to the car, grabbed a folder, came back and asked to come in

the house. he pulled out a picture of my son dead on the ground, asked if it was my son, and i confirmed it was. >> why couldn't trayvon have had a cell phone. why could they not trace the numbers and call somebody? >> it's one of the things you would ask yourself. the police have a subpoena power, they could have subpoenaed those records. but even more relevant than that, they could have knocked on the doors around that apartment complex and say, is your son here, is your son missing, because trayvon had a baby face. and they initially took zimmerman's version as the gospel. thinking this was a little thug trying to break into houses. a good, fair, and impartial investigation would have said,

let's see if this kid lives in the neighborhood? >> they didn't ask people if they know him? >> no. >> and then they drug tested him and not zimmer man? >> exactly. it doesn't make sense. he is dead on the ground, and you do a background check on him, but not on the shooter. you do a drug and alcohol analysis on him, but not on the man that just shot a teenager. it makes no sense. if trayvon would have been the shooter, i guarantee they would have done a background check on him. >> when you heard the 911 tapes, i'm sure this is probably one of the worst moments of your life. how did you feel, and what reaction inside as a mother did you have hearing the actual encounter with the man that

ended up killing trayvon? >> when i heard the 911 tapes, i was absolutely sure that it was my maybe crying for help. it hurt my heart. my heart was aching because i knew i wasn't able to help him. >> so you think the help on the tapes was your son? >> most definitely that's my son. >> the reason that's important because zimmerman said that's him, or some people said it was him, but you're sure the one screaming for help on those tapes was your son? >> i'm sure that's my son, my baby. >> you said to me when you were on the show last week, that you all raised trayvon to be orderly, and to be diligent. and you're a family.

you are not in organizations, you all just regular people making a living. so you had no ax to grind. so this must have been something surreal to you out of nowhere to be in the middle of all of this when all your son did was go to the store. >> it is disturbing. and we have instilled in our kids that you have to be patient with individuals that you don't know. and trayvon knew that being approached by a strange individual -- he knew that he was going to have to make a decision. let me walk fast, get away, whatever. he was not a confrontational kid, but he would not be accosted by someone he didn't know. they keep saying over and over

that the stand your ground law -- trayvon was standing his ground. he didn't know who this guy was. it was a stranger. in today's society you have pedophiles, murders, and he didn't know what he was up against, he just wanted to get home. >> reverend sharpton, it's real important what happened yesterday. it showed that what zimmerman said was not accurate at all because trayvon was a kid like many teenagers that talk on the phone constantly. his mother and father said he always had an earpiece in his ear. >> you're talking about him talking to the young lady? >> yes, when you look at the cell phone records, it blows zimmerman's testimony out of the water. it's so logical, he was walking

home, and it started raining. he ran into the complex, had to hit the code, got into the gate, went to the first building he saw to get out of the rain. stood there, let the rain subside, and he starts walking back. she calls him back, and he says i think this dude is following me. he says i think he is following me. he's walking slow to see if he is following him, and she says you should run home. then you hear zimmerman on the 911 tape saying "he is running now" and trayvon gives her a play by play. and the most telling thing, her last call, she calls at 6:54 and they talk for a minute, and 7:11 she calls and the police get

there at 7:17. when they get there, trey von has been shot and is dead on the ground. her car on the phone records lasted 4 minutes. she heard the first part of the altercation. she said trayvon turned around and said "why are you following me?" and the voice said what are you doing here, why are you around here? >> let's take a break, we'll continue our conservativersatio after this. i knew it was going to be a success. the invention was so simple that i knew i needed to protect it. my name is chris schutte and i got my patent, trademark and llc on legalzoom. [ shapiro ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com, we put the law on your side.

still ahead, part two of our exclusive conversation with the parents of trayvon martin. their fight for justice, view on the local police, and why trayvon was a hero to them. that's next. is always headed somewhere. to give it a sense of direction, at&t created a mobile asset solution to protect and track everything.

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welcome back to "politics nation" we are talking with tracey martin, sybrina fulton, and their attorney mr. crump. when you first came on, you and i made a point of demands for the family, you said you wanted the 911 tapes released. and according to the sanford police department, they said many times specific information is contained in those recordings that is vital to the integrity of the investigation. should it be revealed, it could compromise the integrity of the

information. but then they said there was not probably cause and they have completed the investigation, so why have they held the tapes so long? >> it makes no sense, we had to sue them to get the tapes released. >> you had to sue? >> yes, they were not going to release those tapes, and we all know these investigations can go for a year so they can sweep is under the rug. what's telling, is chief lee said when the tapes came out, it would help bolster zimmerman's self-defense account. >> it showed that he was pursuing trayvon. >> right, and i think that's why they did not was to release them. we heard that child crying for help for that fatal shot.

>> translator: police chief said they could not release zimmer man until they had a problem cause listen to this. >> mr. zimmerman made the statement of self defense. unless we can show probably cause to dispute that, we can't arrest him. >> probably cause, you have a dead young man, 911 tapes saying he was pursuing the young man, he is not even an official watch patrol guy, he is not registered, what else do you need for probably cause? >> you have three independent witnesses that say it was trayvon martin that cried for help, not zimmerman. these are three people that don't know this family at all, but when they came forward, they attack their credibility. you say it's an independent witness, you take their opinion,

and that's enough for probably cause. based on what they say, they say they have no evidence to contradict his self-defense claim. a 911 tape, three witnesses, a dead child with a bag of skitles. >> and we have no evidence to port the self-defense claim. >> he is the only persons that has put forth the self-defense claim, and they say because he has a busted know, mr. martin said, and i agree with it, he went and nicinitiated the altercation. he started it. so it's crazy to say he can shoot their son. >> we hear things about zimmerman, what type of person was your son? >> trayvon was a loving person. he liked to be around his

family. trayvon loved kids, he is a outdoor guy. he looks sports, football, basketball, skiing, horse back riding, he liked to listen to music and just hang around and be with his family and be with his friends. >> and he never got into any legal trouble unlike the guy that killed him, he was a good kid in any encounters with the law. >> he had never been in trouble with the law. he has had respect for the law, he has been around law authority all his life. his grandfather was police for 30 years. he respects the law. >> let me ask you this, and we talked, obviously in private. there have been a lot of people that have come out now in support from entertainers to athletes, thousands and

thousands of people that will be with us tomorrow night, this is going to be a long battle, and we don't know how long -- but we believe in our heart we can win. tell the country, are you willing to hang in there no matter what until this is over? >> until the day i die. i'm a mother, i want justice for my son, and i won't stop until i receive that. >> reverend al, trayvon was my hero. he saved my life. at nine-year-old, trayvon pulled me out of a burning fire, retrieved a cell phone, and called 911. if it had not been for trayvon at 9-year-old calling 911, i would not be here today. >> i didn't know this, your house was on fire, you were

trapped, and trayvon called 911? >> he pulled me out of the kitchen, went back in the house, retrieved the phone, came back out and called 911. ly not stop fighting for justice for trayvon until i die. he almost gave his life for me. i won't stop until i get justice for him. >> attorney crump, justice, what do we want? >> we want him to be arrested and convicted for killing this child. they keep passing the buck, passing the buck, from the police to the state attorney, now to the grand jury, and they are hoping that it will die down and they'll sweep it under the rug. i must tell you this, reverend sharpton, consider this -- why was it so easy for the police to except zimmerman's version of what happened.

it's like his life wasn't important enough to do a thorough investigation. they did not do a background check on this person that just killed a little black child. you have to ask, unless we have people like you involved, how easy it would have been to just sweep this under the rug, his life doesn't matter. >> let me say, i know it's painful, a lot of moving around, but i wanted the country to see on the eve of the big rally tomorrow, to know that this is not a termination of justice for the mother and father, and we will be there until we get justice. i have faith we can do it, and i appreciate and respect both of you. >> thank you for being there from the beginning. >> thank you, tracey martin, sybrina fulton, thank you, our thoughts and prayers are with

you. >> thank you. coming up a question of justice, we'll examine the conduct of the sanford police department. why did they handle the trayvon had martin case this way. we must find out for justice to be served. plus, we're learning much more about george zimmerman. much more. far from being clean. he had a record, and that record needs to be part of this story. stay with us. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. monarch of marketing analysis.

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crump. he was a 17-year-old high school junior, who as his mother toll us, was a fun loving guy that liked being with his family and friends. now his death has reverberated to the most powerful people in the country. nancy pelosi issued a statement about the justice department saying "the loved ones of trey von martin will get answers to their questions and the community will be given help to heal. "earlier, jay carney commented on the case. >> my thoughts and prayers go out to trayvon martin's family, but obviously we're not going to wade into a local law enforcement matter. >> bill nelson told us it's a tragedy that trayvon martin was

killed, the justice department is right to investigate. marco rubio who voted for the controversial stand your ground law, winning as a state lawmaker, called the investigation positive says "let the justice department go in before people rush to judgment on whether a change in the law is necessary." the death of trey von martin is sparking reaction from some of the most powerful people in the country. but in the town of sanford, justice has not been served. why not? we'll talk about police conduct. that's next. c'mon dad!

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how are you? [ female announcer ] outlast your day, any day, with secret's 48-hour odor protection technology. new secret outlast. after the shooting of trey von martin lies a question of the conduct of the sanford police.

today, the police chief offered this explanation "mr. zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self-defense. by florida statute, florida law enforcement was prohibited from making an arrest. so a self-appointed neighborhood watch volunteer, armed with a gun, shoots an unarmed teenager, and is released. he had a arrest record, and the 911 operator told him not to pursue. what about the fact that prey von's father had to contact the police, not the other way around. this is outrageous and there's too much we still don't know. joining me thousand is zachary

carter, he is now a partner at a law enforcement of darcy and whitney. i have relied on his counsel myself. what do you make of this argument, mr. carter? >> first, you don't accept the word of a person under investigation that it was self-defense. that has to be supported by evidence. not just the defendant's or accused statement but all of the surrounding circumstance. we have 911 tapes, we have testimony of neighbors who witnessed various parts of the account and made calls to 911 themselves to report what they observed. you don't necessarily rely on the accused with their claim of self-defense. >> now consistent with that, a statement was issued today by dennis baxley, who was the one that was behind this law, the

stand your ground law. and he issued a statement saying "as the prime sponsor of this legislation in the florida house, i would like to clarify that this law does not seem to be applicable to the tragedy that happened in sanford. "so he is using a self-defense law that even the prime sponsor of the law say it doesn't seem applicable to me, what is the police chief talking about? >> that's hard to fathom. under the florida law, you have a right to stand your ground and retreat in the face of force. but those principals of being able to retreat are not implicated in a situation when someone is going away from you and not toward you. >> you were a federal prosecutor and handled a case that we were

involved in the movement on the outside, and as a prosecutor, if you hear this tape, the operator tells zimmerman not to follow him -- >> are you following him? >> yes. >> we don't need you to do that. >> he is following him, we don't need you to do that, okay, but he does anyway and then something happens and he kills him. wouldn't that at least bring into question of self-defense here, and you would need more than the statement of the shooter? >> yes, because the 911 operator gave instructions that they give

to civilian neighborhood watch volunteers. it's observe, report, but don't take direct action. but because of his common sense, professionalism, or because he was trained to do so, this 911 operator, knowing he was confronting a situation, admonished this guy, "don't take action, it's not necessary." the fact that he ignored that would be use flt in analyzing whether or not this person was acting in self defense, or instead, put himself in harms way or the potential of it. >> let's bring in corrine brown. she was a leading voice asking for the justice department to investigate. >> hello. >> we're talking with zach carter, and the family just left, but you have been very vocal and addiment and helped to

bring about the justice department to help look into this matter, why congresswoman? >> having been involved in it, first of all, there is no great ending, but what we have to do is make this a learning experience and how can we take this and make it not right, but make it fair. first of all it can't be fair until the shooter is arrested, that's the first thing. he must be arrested because as we speak, he still has a permit and a gun. that's unacceptable. any time you have a confrontation with a police officer and it's a shooting, that police officer is given desk duty while the investigation is going on. that's not the case. and keep in mind, that this shooter was self-appointed community watch. they didn't have an official community watch. so in the procedure with the

community watch, they tell you, do not follow. call the police. you know, stand down. why did he do that. five minutes. this young man was not in the act of doing anything that was incorrect. he was just walking at that point, and happened to be black in a neighborhood where he is supposed to be. so what stopped him from waiting for the police officer? >> now, congresswoman, the commissioner -- sanford city commissioner says about the cry for help heard on the tape, i played it, and the mother of trayvon says she is sure that is her baby. he says "the san ford police department is confident it is not trayvon martin crying for help on the tape. that it is george zimmerman. one, i don't know how she makes that determination based on

what. it's a direct contra dix to what mother said on the show tonight. can you see why the family and many of your constituents don't have confidence in the local authorities here? >> absolutely, but this is one of the reasons i wanted the tape released. you have the tape in hand. you have the where with all to have the tape analyzed, and clearly one of the confident is that we now have the tape. you know, we don't have the arrest, but we have the tape and a full investigation going on with the justice department. so basically we're working on making sure that everything moves forward as we speak. things that should have happened did not happen. you know, the young man, mr. martin was tested for drugs and tested for alcohol, but yet the shooter was not tested. there is something wrong with this picture. >> now, mr. carter, listen to

what a witness says, let me let you hear what a witness says. >> we were in the kitchen, i heard the crying. it was a little boy. as soon as the gun went off, the crying stopped. i firmly believe this was not self-defense. my point was is they feel it was not self-defense because i heard the crying, and if it was zimmerman that was crying, zimmerman would have continued crying after the shot went off. >> so if you're hearing this again, back in your prosecuting days, you have a witness saying she heard the crying and stopped with the shooting, she does not feel it was zimmerman, the mother says this, and you're looking at a local official says we're sure it's zimmerman. doesn't it raise a level of concern to you? >> it raises concern about whether or not the impotence is being fairly evaluated. one thing that is important to point out is about some of the

handicaps and limits of a federal investigation. the federal authorities are going to have to prove under the applicable civil rights laws that zimmerman acted with a intent to deprive mr. martin of his civil rights. his right to travel in that area, because of his race. and that is a very difficult challenge. it is the equivalent of proving an intentional homicide. if they were to act professionally and responsiblely, they would have a far broader array of charges. they would have manslaughter, intentional homicide -- >> this is the state -- >> the state or the city. under state laws generally speaking, you have a full array of possible charges, and none of them would require anyone to prove that race was a motive.

and you may remember that james farmer, who was famously quoted for saying that in america, we tend to live in the 51st state for issues of race, the state of denial. you can imagine what the challenges for a prosecutor to prove that zimmerman acted on a racial bias. >> we're going to stay on this and we'll have you back to help us with this. congresswoman, corrine brown, i'm on my way to your district. i have a question for the state attorney. my question is can the family just go down to the police office and bring charges against this man and ask to him him arrested? >> in most jurisdictions that would be theoretically possible, but quite frankly at this stage, and as terrible as it is for the family, for them to believe that the person who killed their son is at liberty there can be no

higher priority than getting this right. >> we are going to make sure that happens. let me thank you both for your time, see you at the rally congresswoman. coming up, new details about george zimmerman, we'll be right back. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. so start your business, protect your family, launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com, we put the law on your side. i toog nyguil bud i'm stild stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't un-stuff your nose. really?

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welcome back. we're learning new troubling details about george zimmerman. he seemed obsessed with law enforcement, but he had a checkered past of his own. to learn more, let me bring in jeff weene rerks. he is writing about george zimmerman today, and joe madison. he will be rallying with us tomorrow night in sanford, florida. thanks to both of you for your time. >> thanks. >> jeff, as we learn more about him, is there is sense that george zimmerman thought he was above the law, and we are told that he, himself, was clean -- squeaky clean. but we found out you uncovered he had several encounters with the law.

>> he did. he applied to be part of the citizen's academy. it's a nonlaw enforcement role meant to educate the public, but he expressed he wanted to be a law enforcement officer. he arrested in 2005 for shoving a drug agent arresting a friend of his outside of a bar in central florida. he has had reports of domestic violence that did not involve arrests. an exfiance of his accused him of attacking her in 2005. and there have been at least two occasions where he pursued someone he believed to be committing a crime. in 2003, he followed someone out of an albertson's parking lot. he reported it and followed the person until a deputy could

arrive. a year later he did the same with someone he said spit on his car and that person was not arrested. >> so he seems overly aggressive, is that the picture? >> he seemed to be someone that very much aspired to be law enforcement or act as law enforcement and someone who on occasion was willing to take action to fulfill that aspiration. >> joe, taking action, being overzealous is one thing. pushing a law enforcement officer, assaulting a law enforcement officer, and being accused of domestic violence, that has nothing to do with justice or being overzealous. so we see he hadolent

tendencies. so how time every time they had a close call, they sided with zimmerman, the one with the trouble? >> i'll call it what it is, nobody wants to say it, but it is pure racism. let's call it exactly what it is. the fact that they would do a blood test on the corpse, tr trayvon, and not the person with the gun. he still has his permit and gun. >> let me -- because i'm short on time, but i want to ask you this specifically because it really bothers me. the miami herald quotes bill lee on the state of the investigation. i want to show you this because you have to answer this for me. "we are taking a beating over this" -- this is the police chief. "it is very unsettling. i'm sure if george zimmerman had

the chance to relive that day, he would probably do things differently. i'm sure trayvon would too. "first of all, how does he know the character of george zimmerman and what he would do differently, and what did trayvon do wrong that he would do differently? trayvon went and bought skittles, an iced tea, and walked home. what would he have done differently. >> look, when i was 17 years old, i was planning for my prom, i had a girlfriend, i was planning to go to college and play football. when i was 17 years old, i was planning on going back to high school. this police chief has some nerve, this dead young did won't to do college, senior prom, or have a life. he ought to be identifying with the parents you interviewed

today. this shows you just how -- this chief of police ought to resign now. and tomorrow evening when we're there, that's exactly what i'm asking for. he ought to just step down. >> i think that you and others have said that. i think that may be too kind. i think they need to be investigating -- resignation should be the at least, some of them may face more serious problems if this investigation goes where i think it could go. >> joe madison and jeff weiner, thank you, see you tomorrow. powerful insight about growing up like trayvon. young and black in america. we have an emotional piece, and he took us on a journey back to his home down, you don't want to

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welcome back, "washington post" writer jonathan capehart rote a piece about trayvon martin. i went back to his home to hear his story. >> jonathan, this trayvon martin story has the whole country really focused in on things that you and i just know naturally. >> right. >> we're here where you -- one of the homes you grew up in, tell us where we are. >> we're on meeker avenue in newark, new jersey. i was 16 years old. >> you were a year lounger than trayvon was when he was killed in sanford, florida?

>> yeah, a year younger. so i moved from this environment back to an urban environment. and the rules of living in an urban environment are different. i had to learn how to get from home to the bus stop, what buss to take to get to school. >> so you would go to the bus stop to get to school? >> yes. >> so i would leave the house and walk down this hill to the bus stop. i would do this every day. >> so you learn these don'ts. >> yes, and they were lessons that were tough to hear at 16 years old. don't run in public, someone will find you suspicious. don't run in public with anything in your hands, someone will think you stole something, and don't talk back to the police. i understand that this is a universal rule, no one should talk back to the police no matter who you are, but when you're african-american it takes

on a greater significance. >> you have been warned about how police might perceive you or misconstrue who you are? >> right, the police for whatever reason, might not like the way i look. might find me suspicious. and the key is, don't give them a reason, don't give the police a reason to stop you. that what hit me so hard about trayvon martin. he was 17, i was 16 when i moved here. i could have been trayvon martin. and even though this is 2012, the additional horror of the story is that i still could be trayvon martin because of someone else's suspicion. >> that's why many of us are fighting so hard for justice in this, and the arrest of zimmerman, because, i have been that 16-year-old kid. i always have daughters now.

what do we tell our kids now? don't go to the store and get skittles, don't wear a hoody? what do we tell them now? the rest of the nation has to deal with the fact in a you just can't do this to people. >> this guy could get away with murder because we have seen it happen time and time again. >> and for a guy like me, you say you covered for years, it's like we can put an african-american in the white house, and still can't walk our kids through the neighborhoods? and we're not at all minimizing the impact of that and the progress the country has made, but we can't act like we're there yet. >> we can't act like we're in the clear, okay this is done, let's go home. the problem is solved, because the problem is not solved. anyone that thought the problem was solved just needs to read the