it is 9:00 p.m. in the east, 8:00 p.m. in louisiana where polls is just closed. nbc news can project that rick santorum is the winner of the louisiana republican primary. santorum will win by a significant margin. we can also project that mitt romney will finish second and newt gingrich third. santorum needed to win tonight and he has. again, rick santorum the projected winner in louisiana. i am alex wagner. here with me tonight from new york magazine, john hileman.

and there is breaking news tonight, former vice president dick china has undergone heart transplant surgery. we'll have much more on that story in just a few minutes. john, i want to go to you first. what do we make of this? it was in some ways a predicted outcome, rick santorum winning louisiana. does it do anything for his campaign? >> it keeps it alive. in mitt romney pulled off an upset, it would put the final nails in santorum's coffin. the next time we come here on tuesday -- >> april 3rd is probably when we'll be here next, giving santorum a chance to pull off wisconsin, that is what he'll

need to do in order to really have a mathematical chance of securing the nomination is virtually nil. but he still has a chance if he pulls off a bunch of chances. rick santorum knows he cannot win this nomination outright before tampa but he can stop mitt romney in some mathematical situations so he's allowed to keep trying. if he hadn't won tonight, he wouldn't have been allowed to keep trying. >> the question is will the gop let rick santorum continue much on tonight? >> it's not just jeff bush. >> rick santorum will say i continue to win the south.

but to your point, is anybody listening in the republican establishing is all coalescing behind mitt romney. mathematically he's almost there. santorum's win tonight is a baby step forward but not a giant step forward. >> does any part of this hurt mitt romney tonight? >> i think it's true the establishment is coalescing around romney but look how they're doing. it's very tentative. jeb bush issued a perfunctory statement. >> there was more supportive li language -- >> donald trump has been the most out there. they are scared, people like jeb bush are scared of being remembered as the guy who put mitt romney over the top. they want romney to go through

the process and get their himself. they don't want their fingerprints on it. >> 37% of the people who turned out for mitt romney have reservations for mitt romney. i think the same is true in the sur gas bunch. >> i want to go to the man who has all the answers to the questions we've been asking. from the santorum campaign, the communications director for rick santorum. hogan, thanks for spending your saturday night with us. >> sure, thanks for the time. hogan, tell us about this win for your candidate, louisiana. a lot of folks thought he would win it. can this give you some of the big mo, momentum? >> i think so. we're very excited about the win. we think the people of louisiana of course. mitt romney went and spent more than a million dollars. i think this proves this thing has some legs and as we move into the states like pennsylvania and wisconsin, this is a huge stepping stone. one of the things we talked

about before is who rick santorum resonates with. the exit polling shows among women he did better as well. i think the tide is turning. earlier this week when we heard his campaign person etch a sketch, that's going to have an effect. >> i want to play the latest ad from the santorum cam pan "obamaville." let take a look at that. >> imagine a small american town two years from now if obama is re-elected. small businesses are struggling. families are worried about their job and future.

the wait to see a doctor is ever increasing, gas prices through the true, freedom of religion under attack and every day the residents of this town must come to grips with the harsh reality that a rogue nation and sworn american enemy has become a nuclear threat. welcome to a place where one president's failed policies really hit home. welcome to obamaville. more than a town, a cautionary tale coming soon to rick santorum.com. >> i didn't actually see freddy kruger in that video but i know he may be in the full cut. >> hogan, do i have a question for you. the rest of of this race is the tale of two months. there's april, which is very tough for you guys. there's may that looks more

promising. one of the key states for you in april where you could win is pennsylvania, rick santorum's home state. if mitt romney beats new pennsylvania, will the senator drop out of the race? >> that's a long way off and that's a big if you're putting on the table right now, john. we just won a straw poll there tonight amongst conservatives and, i mean, you have to go look at rick santorum in that state. obviously he was a senator from there in a state that had a million more democrats than republicans and he was able to win that state as a senator for one term and lost the second race. he's very popular there. people think well of him. that's a big state. i don't know what's going to happen after pennsylvania but i think pennsylvania and wisconsin will be important to our campaign and it's important for us to keep moving forward into the next few months. we have big states coming up with texas and arkansas. it's important to us for sure. >> i think john let you off with a free pass there. i want to go back to the ad.

>> i knew you wouldn't let me go by with a free pass. >> i teed it up with freddy kreuger. i believe you characterized it as a horror show. john braybender tried to walk that back. do you think that's the kind of message, that post apocalyptic america is an accurate representation of the policies of president obama? and furthermore, do you think that's the kind of imagery this country needs right now in a time of economic duress? it's that kind of video that the country's been asking for? >> i think a lot of people, a lot of families in this country are living that imagery. it shows with the unemployment right, high prices. all that ad did was outline the if this president gets reelected, there's going to be more of the same, more hurt, more hurting with families. i think that's what the ad tried to show. of course we did set it to that "amityville horror" type movie

trailer and that's going to be provocative but it reminds people what's at stake with this election and that's freedom. i think with president obama another four years at the helm, we have a serious problem and there's going to be a serious threat to our freedom. >> let me ask you, do you think it responsible? >> what do you mean do i think it's responsible? >> do you think it's a responsible ad to put on the air? especially the day after someone said to your candidate within shooting range -- >> if you want to ask what's responsible and irresponsible, you might want to call the white house to find out what's irresponsible. >> hey, hogan, two quick questions to augustment what alex said about the ad. this is a web ad so ethically you doesn't have do this. but i'm curious, number one, why you didn't have "i'm rick santorum and i approve of this

ad." do you think it's a sext a position given the tenor of the ad how your candidate said a few days ago that perhaps we should stay with barack obama for four more years if in fact romney is the nominee? >> first of all, he was -- that's something he's been talking about for a long time. he has never said -- excuse me, he's always said he would support the nominee. he even said if ron paul were the nominee, he'd vote for ron paul. he's been very clear about that. the point he was trying to make was in the fall we're going to need to have excitement in the republican party, we're going to need to have excitement in america to get out and vote for somebody. we're going to have to have motivation to get out and support the nominee. if the candidate we put forth is a moderate who has basically supported every single policy of the president's right now, then it's not going to be really motivating, it not going to be exciting for someone to get up oft couch and vote on election day. that was the point he's trying to make and he's made that very clearly many times.

in fact he said quote, unquote, i think if the vote is between tweedle dumb and tweedle dee, no one will get out and vote. we have to have a clear contrast. that's what he's been talking about. one guy's for this, i'm for freedom. >> hogan gidley, thank you for your time and energy, sir. congratulations on your bwin tonight. we'll see you later. >> nbc news has learned that former vice president dick cheney is recovering after under going heart surgery today. jamie, thanks for joining us. >> this announcement comes as a surprise. up until now the former vice president pain tand he had not made a decision about having a heart transplant. we now know he had been on the transplant list for 20 months

since he went into late stage heart failure, when he had an lvad, a battery-assisted pump that helps his body pump blood throughout the body. most patients with this type of device do not stay on it for more than two years. so he was reach that anniversary. we also learned, alex, he actually reached the top of the transplant waiting list this past september. so mr. cheney has been waiting for a match since then. coincidentally i saw the former vice president just a few weeks ago and while he looked fine, it was clear he was having breathing problems. so my sense is that it became more and more necessary for them to move forward with the transplant quickly. we should just add that earlier this evening the cheney family released a statement saying that although they do not know the

identity. donor, they will, quote, be forever grateful for this life saving gift. alex? >> jamie, thank you for the information. our chief sign correspondent joins us now. bob? >> 2,300 people get heart transplants in a year and the survival rate is pretty good. 88% are alive after three years, 73% after five years. mr. cheney had a beeper like most transplant patients while he was on the waiting list and he had to come into the hospital on the in the of a matter of hours when a donor became available, which is somebody who is brain dead and they extract their heart. so his prospects now are very good. even though it was a big deal when it first started in 1967, heart transplants have been

fairly routine. the big limiting factor is the number of donors. hundreds of people on the list die while they're waiting for one. no one's talking about there's any favoritism here. he was number one on the list for a long time. >> thank you for that update. we will certainly be following in a story as this develops. coming up, we'll get our first look at the exit polling again. did romney miss an opportunity in the state to connect on the economy? we'll unpack those numbers next. you're watching msnbc's live coverage of the louisiana primary.

welcome back to msnbc's live coverage of the louisiana primary. rick santorum the projected winner tonight in louisiana. we're joined from santorum headquarters tonight in green bay, wisconsin. ron, i in tnoticed you're not i louisiana but wisconsin. >> rick santorum is not in louisiana but he is the projected winner down there tonight. like the first two gulf coast state he won, mississippi also heavily evangelical. 52% of the voters telling nbc news they are evangelical. it's helped carry him to 11 victory. looking for his first win in this part of the country, having lost ohio, michigan and illinois

to mitt romney. >> thank you to ron mott. now we go to the romney campaign tonight in los angeles. garrett, what is the feeling in the romney campaign? is there some amount of fear? >> i this the the fact alone we're in southern california tells you it's on the neh scale than on the fear side. mitt romney was down on his home in la jolla. that tells you about what they're thinking. they're getting ready to get into a big fund-raising swing at the start of this next week. several stops in southern california, a couple of stops in texas. they're starting to pivot from the sprint mentality to the marathon and also starting to look a little bit ahead to the fall. you don't hear mitt romney say

rick santorum or newt gingrich's name ever on the stump anymore. we're not even expecting to campaign in wisconsin until later in the week. >> i did not think a man running for president would beat me to seeing "the hunger games." >> somehow they found the time. >> now we go to the gingrich campaign. alex, you have been spending time watch newt gingrich feet etch a sketches with alligators. what's the latest with newt gingrich? >> that's right. down in louisiana, he wanted to show the southern part of the state how they would treat an etch a sketch. it's unclear whether he thought he was going to win the state but we knew all along it was going to be an uphill battle. he kept telling crowds he had a tie to the state because he went to tulane and that's where he got his masters and ph.d.

he told us yesterday he was going to go on and even if he didn't get delegates tonight, he was going to future states. he really does want to draw this race out. he's going to see if he has the money and the resources and the support to be able to do that any longer. >> alex moe, we look forward to your dispatches from the newt gingrich campaign. thanks, alex. mr. fix, thanks for joining us on a saturday night. >> thanks for having me. it's always a pleasure. >> i want to bring in our panel of top talkers in a second. i want to talk to you a little bit about the results tonight, specifically framed against the background of a newt gingrich campaign. to some degree i think as far as the romney/santorum dynamic, it's unchanged. as far as gingrich, do you think

this has any effect on how long he's in the race? >> there are only two people who know that, newt gingrich or calista gingrich and neither are calling me. he can stay in the race as long as he sees fit. what tonight is proving if mississippi and alabama last week didn't prove this is newt gingrich who had hoped against hope to become the southern regional candidate will not be the southern regional candidate. santorum has won mississippi, alabama, tennessee. newt gingrich won georgia and before that south carolina on january 21st. so there's no viable rationale for newt gingrich to stay in the race but that doesn't mean newt gingrich isn't going to stay in the race. >> indeed. we've seen in our exit polling a shart rngs divide in the republican primaries this year and in louisiana today, things were no different. today 55% of white evangelicals

went to rick santorum as opposed to 22% for mitt romney. romney did better with nonevangelicals but among catholics, rick santorum also led romney 43 to 32%. and another familiar pattern in this primary tonight is the split among income groups. rick santorum got a lot more support from lower income voters and mitt romney only won the very wealthiest. among voters whose family income was less than $36,000, santorum won. what do you make of that? >> we talk about the evangelical factor there. i wonder how much of this really is about religion. there's two ways of interpreting it. if you look at, you know, supposedly romney struggles with conservative voters. if you really look at exit polls carefully, he's struggling among

conservative voters who identify themselves as evangelicals. if you just look at conservative no if it's really a religious problem and it comes out in a state like louisiana or mississippi or alabama, the two theories that come to mind are, one, is the mormon faith an obstacle voters can't get past, and the other is is this about abortion? >> chris, to some degree there's a question of whether it even matters, right? at the end of the day if mitt romney is the nominee, a republican is going to win that state. >> that's the argument that i think the romney people will put forward. yes, they don't love mitt romney in alabama, mississippi and louisiana but they love him a whole lot more than they love barack obama and that's the choice they'll be posed with. i think there's merit in that argument. to steve's point, one of the most fascinating stats that i've seen in any state where evangelical voters make up 50%

or more of the republican primary electorate, mitt romney has not won a single one of them. it's something, whether it's religion, abortion, steve is exactly right in terms of his theories of the case but it a remarkable thing that he has not won one state where evangelicals make up 50% or more of the republican primary vote. that goes all the way back to iowa and all the way forward here. it's a telling thing. it's this race more than any race i've seen in the modern past is that demographics really is destiny. could i give you a generic state and say, okay, it's 27% evangelical, people who make $100,000 or more make up 40% of the vote and it's going to be very educated electorate. mitt romney is going to win. the opposite of that, rick santorum is going to win. you almost don't need to know what state it is. tonight it was louisiana but it doesn't really matter. just give me a demographic point of view and say here's the

demographics of the state, who is going to win? anyone who pays passing attention to politics can tell you. >> you're in washington so you can't see the head nodding. >> is heilmann nodding? >> heilmann is nodding. >> if traynham and heilmann and nodding -- >> there's almost nothing to add, except to say the religion thing really matters. it's interesting that the income thing matters and it matters in a great deal in the sense that of the -- if you look at those income brackets, 60% of the vote tonight was under $100,000 a year. that is rick santorum country. so if you think about the religious thing that chris just talked about and the fact that santorum wins where 50% or more are evangelical where there are a lot of down scale and tea party voters, this is where santorum tends to do well. tonight huge tea party turnout in louisiana. almost no one not supporting the tea party in this primary. the exit polls, it only about 7%

had don't somewhat or strongly support the tea party in is a function to some extent of a long primary. what was over long nomination fights, you look back historically, is that these guys by waging this fight over a period of time, they assemble coalitions. those coalitions are national coalitions. if you think back to the primary in 2008 between hillary clinton and barack obama, you could have said the same thing. state where there were a lot of rich, well educated suburban whites, african-americans and liberals, obama won those states. where working class whites and hispanics dominated, hillary clinton won those states. it didn't matter once they assembled over many months, you

can tell built something real. >> rick asantorum is not an evangelical, he's a catholic. he's speaking the language that blue collar republicans identify with. this is why he's talking about gay marriage, talking about abortion and obamacare. one third of catholics in louisiana are culturally conservative and the reason why is because they for the most part identify with being abortion -- anti-abortion first and foremost and then second ly the economic issues are secondary. for them this is a crusade and santorum is a body of that. >> are we being fooled on the exit polls? we look at the income and say this reflects mitt romney's problem with relates to blue collar working class voters? we tend to look at it that way but how much of this reflects are the voters who tend to be more blue collar working class more religious? is that what we're seeing here? >> this is another best kept secret. they're going to vote for romney anyway in the general. they're not going to vote for obama.

>> chris, i didn't even get a chance to ask you about bennees. >> promises. >> when we come back, will the ivan general call vote keep rick santorum in this race? weep talk to the family recourse council's tony perkins next.

welcome back to msnbc's live coverage of the louisiana primary. rick santorum the projected oner for tonight. tony perkins, president of the family resource council. thanks for joining the program.

>> good evening, alex. >> there was an interesting piece in the "new york times" saying with the exception of the southeast corner of the state, social conservative conservatism holds roulx equal sway. tem us more about that. >> that's a socially conservative state, it's a blue collar state. i've campaigned across this state many, many times. was out today, voted early this morning and was out moving around. and folks are motivated by the moral and social issues, as well as the economic issues. and i think they sent a pretty strong message with a vote for rick santorum today. >> and what is the feeling about mitt romney on the ground in louisiana? if it does end up -- if we do end up in a race where mitt romney is the romney, will louisianans embrace him in

november? >> that's an interesting question, alex. if you look at the exit polling data, rick santorum carried every category with the exception of those making over $200,000 and those who say that religion is not important to them. that's pretty significant. what else is happening as you've been talking about how this primary is going on longer, people are becoming very committed to their candidate. one of the polling questions asked whether or not people would be supportive of mitt romney, santorum voters. 63% said they would not be in favor of mitt romney. so i think he's going to have some difficulty closing this gap that's been widening with conservative voters. >> and i wonder actually if conservative voters elsewhere in the country are saying i can vote for rick santorum? >> i have a question for you. there are a lot of conservatives who feel the more time the republican field spends talking

about the social issues like aborti abortion, the less time they have to focus on the economy, which was supposed to be the number one issue they were focusing on. it takes them away from their main message. is that a concern? >> well, you know, actually the president kind of brought these issues on first with the mandate on contraception, which brought that to the forefront, the social issues. but to rick santorum's credit, he's been talking about not just the social issues, but he's been talking about those in conjunction with the fiscal issues. he talks about if we want a strong economy, we got to have strong families. he's been tying the two together. he's not talking about just one or the other. i do believe that is the tight message that really carries well in the south, as we've seen with the results in alabama, mississippi, tennessee and tonight here in louisiana. >> tony, i want to bring in john heilmann here who has a question for you. >> tony, have i a question for you. you pointed out mitt romney had sop problems with certain parts of the republican base. we've noticed that a lot over the course of the last year and

it's been shown over and over again. put on your political strategist hat. assume romney is the nominee, what does he have to do to fix that problem and get the kind of turnout from religious conservative, from tea party voters, from movement conservatives throughout the party he's going to need to beat barack obama in november? >> well, you guys touched on it earlier when you talked about how folks are going to be turning out to vote for or vote against barack obama. but there's a different level of intensity that i've not seen before and i go back probably about four presidential election cycles and there's an intensity of support for rick santorum that i've not seen, even in the last election cycle. and we're seeing that reflected in a higher percentage turnout of evangelicals. in 2008 it was 44%. we're seeing on average it's about 51% to 52% across the country. so these folks are not turning

out in opposition of barack obama. it's a positive reinforcement of they connect with rick santorum. that's going to be a big problems for republicans. it's not that they're going to go vote for barack obama. it's the intensity level that's going to be necessary. and of course historically moderates never do well against liberals. it takes a conservative to go head to head with a liberal. >> tony, to your point, this is robert traynham, do you see any conceivable way that rick santorum forces himself on the ticket as a vice presidential nominee? >> you know, i don't know. you know, he's -- i think he's avoided that talk. he said that's not even something he's considering. i don't know. the long they are goes on i think the two camps become more entrenched if their positions and i think feelings even become harder to resolve going forward. so it's going to take somebody like that. if mitt romney is to get the nomination, if he does get the nomination and if he's to have any type of success in taking on

barack obama, he's going to have to somehow close the gap with evangelicals. he certainly can't speak the language. he tried four years ago, it didn't work. he adopted a new model this time around. it hasn't been talking to them at all. >> tony perkins from the family resource council, thanks as always for joining the program, sir. >> you're welcome, alex. good to be with you. >> coming up, santorum won tonight but is his campaign now showing signs it is unraveling? you are watching msnbc's live coverage of the louisiana primary.

welcome back to msnbc's live coverage of the louisiana primary. rick santorum is the projected winner. ed rendell is the former chairman of the democratic party. he's now a political analyst. thank you for spend your saturday night with us. >> thanks, alex. thanks for scheduling my appearance right after the ncaa games. >> we do our very best, sir. i want to talk to you about trouble in santorum land. he had a good and very solid win tonight and don't mean to undercut that. certainly there have been signs of late that the campaign may be unraveling if not taking a turn

for the very negative. i want to play -- we were playing earlier in the show the obamaville ad, which is apparently parter of a longer video piece showcasing a post-apocalyptic america that will arrive apparently with two more years of president obama or four more years. i wonder, sir, what you thought of this ad when you first watched it? >> i was absolutely stunned. it to me is almost a disqualifies ad for the santorum campaign. it's unfair, it's untruthful in many regards and it's just out of sync with i think where the country is right now. and i think it's also desperate. it's just like newt gingrich making that just incredible statement yesterday that president obama was making a racial aspect to his comments about what happened in florida. just ridiculous. these guys are desperate and desperate to what end?

i don't believe that rick santorum in his heart thinks he can ever win this nomination and certainly newt gingrich is smart enough to know he can't. >> governor, i want to -- you know, rick santorum has a history of getting angry. you obviously have spent time with him politically. i want to play a little sound of rick santorum calling into neil cavuto's show. >> what do you think i'm doing this for? because i like barack obama? it's so absurd it's not even worth printing but you folks are all wound up. >> have i talked to governor romney on this. would he support you as a nominee? newt gingrich? ron paul? he's always said yes. everyone said that. you're saying you would as well, right? >> i've always said this. i've never said anything to the contrary. >> a very angry and irate rick santorum. you have spent time with rick santorum and when he first entered this race, there was a lot of talk about his temper

getting the best of him. would you say that's what's happening at this point? >> yeah, i think, first of all, he's got to be tired. anyone who goes through the gauntlet of different primaries has to be tired. number two, as someone who liked rick santorum, i disagreed with him about everything but i liked him, would i advise him take a deep breath. good lord, rick, you've done better than anybody including yourself. go down fighting but go down with class and grace and dignity. don't play that obamaville ad because then you might have a future in 2016 or to be even considered on the ticket. now you're going to be an angry guy who is going to scare people. no one's going to want him on a ticket. no one is going to think of him as someone who has a future if he keeps getting angry. look, he's done great. two days before iowa do you think he in his wildest dreams thought he would be here, alive, winning the louisiana primary? >> governor rendell, john heilmann has a question for you. >> hi, john.

>> have i a political question for you. you know some things about the politics of pennsylvania. on april 24th your state has a republican primary, it's important for rick santorum. he would have to win in a state to continue in a viable way going forward. the romney campaign thinks they might win that state. what do you think? >> i disagree. i think rick will win the state. not by a large margin. you know what's happened to republican voters in the last decade. when i ran for governor, i switched about 5,000 republican voters to democrat. and when hillary and president obama ran in the primary, they switched another 80 or 90. so it's a different republican party than it was 12 years ago. it's moderates, a good percentage of it is moderates are now either democrats or independents. so i think the base is such it's not the same type of base that illinois is or new york is but, remember, on that night romney's going to win new york, connecticut, all those other states.

so i think it's going foo-to-mufoo-toto mute whatever benefit rick will get. >> it's an interesting point that even if he does win pennsylvania, it's a muted victory. >> i think what this race really needs, we're all waiting for the psychological end of this race. what we need is some event, some primary where those damn graphic factors we were talking about earlier finally get overthrown, where romney wins where he's not supposed to win. pennsylvania is a prime candidate, unless the governor is right. another one that comes to mind, let's see what happens in wisconsin. if romney can win wisconsin convincingly, in a way that says these numbers are starting to move in a way that violates the demographic realities that have good morning earned in race so far, then i think that shuts down the race before the end of

this process. >> tony, if it's all right, alex, i'd like to ask john a question. >> yeah. >> john, i don't know if you heard the previous panel but there was talk from tony perkins that he said the evangelicals won't come out for romney because they're not enthusiastic about him whereas they would come out for santorum. don't up think that those evangelicals in the far right of the republican party is coming out to vote against president obama regardless of who the republican candidate is? >> i do. and i think that you heard tony perkins there has someone who is much more fond of rick santorum than romney, giving spin there rather than speaking in terms of what he actually knows about the evangelical vote and the republican party. my guess is and certainly the obama campaign assumes that there is going to be extraordinarily high enthusiastic turnout on the right among tea party and evangelical voters, no matter who the nominee is. >> thank you, governor ed

rendell. we're glad you got both basketball team and primary time tonight. thanks for your time, sir. >> thanks, alex. >> we'll have much more on where the republican race goes from here when we come back. you're watching msnbc's live coverage of the louisiana primary.

>> welcome back. rick santorum, projected winner in the louisiana republican primary. i want to talk a little with you folks where we go from here. we talked about santorum survival chances. newt gingrich haven't talked a lot about him. how long is he in the race? >> gingrich was mucking things up for santorum when santorum had a chance for a one-on-one race with rom knney. i don't think gingrich is getting in his way. any delegate gingrich gets is nonromney. if we got to june saying this is one crazy summer. i want to be relevant.

best way is to sit on whatever delegates i have and wait and see. >> all depends on how much money he has. >> newt gingrich. >> financially he can't stay in the race too much longer. >> he says there are a lot more zoos. milwaukee county zoo is nice. >> wait till you get to california. san diego zoo. >> oh, my gosh. >> where all the best animals are. >> sea world in san diego. places to go for newt gingrich. >> we have wisconsin, d.c., maryland, santorum is not on the ballot. april is a cruel month for rick santorum. connecticut, delaware, new york, pennsylvania, we talked about, rhode island, friendly for mitt romney. may could be kinder. places that would be good for rick santorum. >> june, utah, cherry on top for

mitt rom knney. nobody in wisconsin is paying attention to this primary. they're all so focused on the recall. there are 21 offices set up for governor walker. there is one mitt romney office in state of wiuof wisconsin. to act that the state is a tell-all is kind of silly. >> sorry, rick walker, scott walker, la-la, there has been some sort of verbiage out there that the recall effort will mirror what happens in november with president obama and wisconsin voters being a bellwether for maybe the rest of the country. we will of course see what happens. >> as steve said, for rick santorum to continue. he has to upset the apple cart. wisconsin a place, having lost in michigan, ohio, and illinois, a place where if santorum could win there, i think people would regard that as significant. allow him to say he won in a part of the country he hasn't won before.

he has got a very, got to survive till may. i do think he is a cause candidate now. if you talk to people around him. i don't see rick santorum exiting until after it is over. >> thank you. i am alex wagner the i've will see you week days at noon eastern here on msnbc. thank you for being with us. and good night.