techno music in my head. what else? >> up early calculating my daily food points. willie howpoints. how do you stay so trim? >> the truth is, i don't. it's about spanx for men. it's a full girdle that comes up to the neck. keeps everything where it ought to be. "morning joe" starts right now. >> this is the most important issue of this election. it's one that encapsulates all the issues that are at stake in this very critical election in our country's history. there's one candidate who has the chance of winning the republican nomination who can make this the central issue that will be a winning issue for us to win the presidency back. that's rick santorum. unfortunately, the worst person to make that case is mitt romney. that's why, as i said, we are

here today and he's not. >> i'm not going to worry about what rick is saying these days. when you fall further and further behind, you get more animated. i'm able to connection with the american people. as you go across the country, you see more and more enthusiasm for my candidacy. we have to replace president obama. one difference between the two of us is if i'm elected president, i will repeal obama care. >> good morning. it's tuesday, march 27th. we are live from washington, d.c. where it's happening. today, again, and tomorrow. the supreme court taking up one of the most important cases, probably the most important case in at least 12 years since bush v. gore. political editor for "the washington post," sam stein.

former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, kelly o'donnell. in new york, willie geist and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. guys, a lot to talk about. willie, the supreme court case. unbelievable poll coming out not only on the health care law and what americans want, but also in afghanistan. americans have some very clear cut decisions, made up their mind on health care and the war. >> the question of the war, "the new york times" poll, it's not just the number, which is 7 and 10 americans think we should not be fighting in afghanistan. itis the jump. it's up 16 points. there's not a lot of mystery to it. you can walk through the terrible things happening with staff sergeant robert bales, the burning of the koran and where nato officers and troops have been shot by soldiers. >> yeah.

>> there's a slow, steady beat of the american people saying we ought not be there anymore. >> sam stein, you look at the cbs poll that came out, "the new york times" poll that came out yesterday. the first case of the argument. it was fascinating. the supreme court said we are not going to put this off until 2014. in fact, it's jermaine now. we are going to decide now. let's put the numbers up on the poll and what americans think about the health care law and whether it should be overturned or not. it's a clear, cut decision that 26%, only one in four americans want to keep the entire law intact. 29% want to overturn the mandate. 38% want to overturn the mandate and the entire law. >> yeah. >> so, you have, my gosh, you have 60 -- how many? is that 60 -- >> i'm not a mathematician. it looks like 67% want the

entire mandate overturned. 67%. two in three americans. it's not like the supreme court doesn't look at the mood of the nation before making decisions. >> there's one threat that combines afghan numbers and health care numbers. bad news turns the public against you. with afghanistan, there's been a series of news development that is gradually, not gradually, quickly saw it. with health care, there was a study that said opponents and supporters of the law, 3-1. i'm not saying it's the only reason it's unpopular. it contributes to it. now, there's some solace in those numbers. if p you bring out the individual provisions, for instance, 85% of the people don't want you discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions. people don't like the mandate. >> let's put the numbers back up

again. michael steele, you look at those numbers, again, the mandate. >> right. >> two out of three americans want the mandate overturned. you know, we republicans would love to say it's because it's the worst bill in the world. i think this has more to do with messaging than anything else. listen -- i say it this way because i don't think americans know what's in this bill after two years. >> you'd be surprised, joe, they do. they know a lot more -- >> how do you know that? >> i spent a year on the road with americans talking about the bill. i spent 2010 and the latter part of 2010 on a bus going to all 50 states. >> what part of this bill -- i have been giving speeches across america for four years and most people ask me, what the hell is in the bill? >> you get to the details and

you are right, they don't get it. nancy pelosi says we have to pass it before we know what is in it. people got that. what they do get is the fact they appreciate, you know, my kid is on till 26 and the portability. you can have that without the mandates. >> you cannot have pre-existing conditions. >> yes, you can. >> how do you do it? >> congress -- >> we don't want to get into the minutae. we had that debate before. >> you can pass a bill requiring that portability. the fact you mandate insurance. >> then you can afford it. that's the point of the mandate. if you have young, healthy people required to pay into the system, insurers can afford to take care of them. >> why are we sitting here acting surprised 67% of the people don't want it. they have been saying from the beginning they don't want it. >> the numbers haven't been this stark. let me suggest, there are a lot of things that the republican

primary have done to damage the republican brand. i believe that the past three months of republicans hammering on mitt romney for supporting the same individual mandate that barack obama passed nationally, has drawn people's attention to the individual mandate and 67% of americans don't like it. again, i think it's because in large part, it's when what the republican nomination has been about. >> i'm coming from the point you are coming from. i don't think the vast majority of americans understand the inner mechanics, the components of the bill. the question is, do you favor the mandate? do you oppose the mandate? the question is, do you like the bill? no, i don't like the bill because of what we are heard and seen. the word mandate itself is a turn off to most americans. you are mandated to put money p into this thing. if they changed the word, maybe it would be in better shape.

>> again, if the focus the past three months, the focus was on portability, keeping your kids on insurance until you are 26, if it was about people with pre-existing conditions, can't be discriminated against by big, bad insurance companies. well, those numbers would be reversed. the focus has been on the individual mandate and the obama administration never sold this bill to the american people. the polls never showed they did. when americans are hearing the federal government is going to force you to do something, compel you to do something, it cuts against the grain of most americans. i think it's showing up in the polls. >> zeke emanuel who will be on with us later this morning, he was there at the beginning of the health care legislation. he will tell you they did, in the administration, a very, very poor job communicating the elements that would have made this bill, this legislation more

palettable to a lot of americans. >> so, i want to be clear here for those that are listening. a lot of times when something goes wrong, you have the party of a losing side say that's not the issue itself. it's not the substance. we didn't communicate it well. in this case, i can say i'm against this law. i believe the individual mandate is unconstitutional. i will be happy if the supreme court overturns it. i'm still saying it's a communication issue. we are going to talk about afghanistan in a second. i have been hearing for four years on the road, americans want us out of afghanistan. i just haven't heard the clarity on health care reform. many are saying how it is going to affect us? it doesn't go into effect until 2014. this has been a jumbled mess. what does it mean? >> that's part of it. i was on the road with michael in 2010 listening to that criticism and spend my days on

the hill where democrats talked about the more popular elements. part of it is the extended roll up. we have such a short term experience that the idea that something was passed a couple years ago, but not fully implemented for a few more years then the so-called tax or penalty that was debated doesn't go into effect until 2014. it's a long time to deal with something so complicated. >> what happens if it's overturned? the democrats on the hill, are they looking forward to using that against the right wing support? >> they were more mobilized yesterday. spent more time outside the court. it seemed to me those in favor of the law were present in much greater numbers. they were organized, they were wearing the white coats of medical doctors. they have families there with kids that are sick. >> wow, the supreme court took away coverage from 2.5 million

adults or allowed insurance companies to discriminate. if you are the president, it is incredibly damaging. you spent 16 months on your signature legislation, spent political capital to have it overturned before it takes effect. >> i don't know if he'll take ownership of it. i don't hear him campaign on it. >> they spent the last two days trying to reterm the obama care. we are happy with that. >> at the same time, they are kicking and screaming over taking responsibility for this health care law. they call him the godfather. >> what's wrong with that? >> if they can pass legislation, drop gasoline to $2 a gallon.

he's taking the plan to lower your gas prices. >> they are not distinctive. it helps him in the presidential -- just one thing for this discussion. there's a new study. the urban institute put this out. they determined it would affect 2% to 4% of the population. it's a small sliver. it's an important debate. >> willie geist and i are offended when you use actual facts to inform the base. i want to change topics. let's go to the latest cbs/new york times poll on afghanistan. we were talking about this at the top of the show, more than two out of three americans believe the the united states should no longer be fighting a war, a decade long war in afghanistan. that number is up 16 points since last november. 68% of americans think the war has gone poorly compared to 25%.

still, less than 50% of those polled think the u.s. should speed up the current 2014 time line for withdrawal. mixed message there, willie. bottom line, americans want out of afghanistan. >> yeah, the poll shows a lot of what we have been hearing on the show. the question, what can anyone do with this information? 70% of the american public thinks we should get out? how much faster can president obama get us out? 2014 is the time line now. is it possible lodgistically, politically to get all those troops out quicker than they are scheduled to get out? some people are saying there's time. senator john mccain says there's time to make more progress. we have to hang in there. we can't telegraph our withdrawal. the argument becomes less convincing. >> it certainly does. i would like the troops out tomorrow. i would like us to start drawing

down two or three years ago. the bottom line is you can't take them all out tomorrow. at this point, the generals on the ground have to be worried about the safety of their troops as we bring our men and women home. >> as we discussed many times there's forced protection in withdrawal from troops. afghanistan is a huge country. troops spread out throughout the country in the north and south. as you withdrawal troops, you have to make sure the troops that remain are protected by an element of force. i imagine there are plans on the board right now being carried out right now calling for withdrawal. we are going to have troops in afghanistan for the forseeable future for five to ten years. whether it's 10,000 or 15,000, we are going to have a presence in afghanistan. the weight of this war, decades worth of wait, lives, blood, treasure, families being completely disrupted by

deployment, four, five, six deployments. come home given the events of the past few weeks. the weight of that war is finally coming home. >> all right. by the way, did you guys see this story about the president, the open mic? >> yes. >> i hate open mics. the president is drawing attention after an open mic conversation with the russian president. listen. >> my last election, after my election i have more flexibility. >> yeah, i understand you. >> friends with vladimir. >> friends with american democracy. i'll have more flexibility. >> that was the fly on the wall moment we so rarely get. when i traveled with the

president, bush was caught with an open mic. you get moments where they are interacting and you get a window of what that relationship is. >> it's not like they are saying anything that we don't realize, it's the fact we caught them saying it. >> it plays in the worst fear, their political pundit. here is romney's response. >> when he's murdering his own people, we go to the united nations. who stands up for them? russia typically with china alongside. in terms of a geopolitical foe, they have the heft of the security council, a massive nuclear power, russia is the geopolitical foe and the idea that our president is planning on doing something with them that he's not willing to tell

the american people before the election is something i find very, very alarming. >> michael steele, if you were still running the rnc, you would be there turning that baby around and you would be spitting out. >> i would be the godfather. you know, the political translation problem is we are talking the context of foreign a affairs. that speaks to the core of what the base concern about a second term. when he doesn't have to worry about a re-election, all of a sudden, he pulls open the cupboard and the stuff is falling out. what he hasn't put on the table so far. it cuts not just on foreign policy side but domestic policy side as well. >> confidence there. there was no if i win. >> i'm gonna win. willie geist, in washington, we

don't have the new york post. how did the post cover the tim tebow press conference that was treated, i won't say like the second coming of christ, but it was given a good bit of play. maybe the second coming of joe nameth. >> we did burt into the local telecast. the daily news doesn't have it. the back page of the new york post had sanchez saying i'm still the man. >> yeah. >> tebow did the press conference, then sanchez did a conference call. >> when he said he was still the man, was he talking about teenage girls or -- >> come on. unfair. >> upton is a teenager. i'm not talking legal stuff. they can be legal if they are 18 or 19. >> she's a teenager? good lord. >> i think she is. pam stein told me she was. go to wikipedia on that one.

>> jeepers. >> speaking of jeepers, i trust you have news you can't use. mitt romney, shamelessly, shamelessly trying to pick up the young vote saying yes, he, too, is a fan of that show where teenagers go around, hunt each other and kill each other dead. >> he saw "the hunger games." he loves it. he loves young adult books. >> he likes the "twilight" series? >> yes, he does. >> maybe it's just me, willie, it doesn't ring true. it doesn't ring true. >> you think he dropped the grand kids off and split? >> i think he had an aid go in there and take notes on an etch a sketch and read it. >> he sat there painfully

enduring it thinking it would help taking notes of what is good and terrible about it. >> if he went to see this movie, he's relating to 98% of the people who can't vote. i don't really -- if you are rick perry and believe they vote at 21, 100% of them can't vote. i don't understand it. he does shoot varm its. >> on occasion. >> we are going to speak with a guy that does not like "twilight." dr. brzezinski, also, dr. sooem emanuel. eugene robinson and later actress kyra sedgwick. that's great. up next, politico's top stories of the morning. first, here is bill karins with the forecast.

i'm excited about you tell iinge it's going to get warm again soon. >> it will happen quickly. this is a one-day blast of cold that moved into the country including the great lakes, ohio valley and new england. the windchills are brutal. the growing season started two to four weeks sooner than it should have. we are going to have damage to the buds and flowers that look so beautiful in the 80 degree heat a couple days ago. the windchills in new england, the teens in boston. d.c. has a windchill of 29. hopefully, this is one of the last days you have to bundle yourself up. during march, especially the end of march, the sun angel is getting higher. we'll get up into the 40s and 50s. middle of the country, you are warm. no complaints there. if you are watching us early this morning in california and oregon, heavy rain heading your way today.

that will continue for the upcoming week with flooding concerns. you are watching "morning joe." it's cold, but it's clear. we are brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st, polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? the passat is one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick.

not that we'd ever brag about it. turn right. come on, nine. turn left. hit the brakes. huh? how'd that get there? [ male announcer ] we can't hide how proud we are to have nine 2012 iihs top safety picks. so we're celebrating with our "safety in numbers" event. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 passat for $219 a month.

chocolate lemonade ? susie's lemonade... the movie. or... we make it pink ! with these 4g lte tablets, you can do business at lightning-fast speeds. we'll take all the strawberries, dave. you got it, kid. we have a winner.

we're definitely gonna need another one. small businesses that want to grow use 4g lte technology from verizon. i wonder how she does it. that's why she's the boss. because the small business with the best technology rules. contact the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 1-800-974-6006. ♪ back to "morning joe." let's take a look at the morning papers from "the washington post." the reports that the united states and pakistan were in negotiations earlier this year over the future of the cia drone program. concessions including advanced notices of pakistan's territory. the offers were rejected. good because they would tell al

qaeda where the drone strikes were going. president obama met with pakistan's prime minister to discuss the strained relationship between the two countries. the financial times dominique strauss khan, remember him? charges of aggravated pimping for his alleged role in a prostitution ring. >> willie? >> yes. >> it's a crime now? >> idiots? stupid. >> i thought it was a snoop dogg term, aggravated pimp. >> what happened to the france i once knew? what happened? >> prostitution, as you know, is legal in france but pimping is not. fine points of the french law there. >> you know an awful lot about that. of course, again, we were raised there. a french orphanage outside.

>> it's like the supreme court thing. the pimping is separable from prostitution. >> so american businessmen, if you are keeping score at home, prostitution in france, willie tells us, legal. >> that's right. >> but if you are going over there to engage in what kind of p pimping is this? >>ing valted. >> aggravated pimping, it's a no-no, even if you are the former head of the imf. >> you have been watching great moments in french law. speaking of aggravated pimping, we have a special guest. >> why did i know that was coming? the executive editor from politico, jim van dehide. it's aggravated pimping. >> look at him pretending he hasn't been busted for this repeated times.

>> i spend a lot of time in france. >> let's talk about one of your headlines. karl rove's fight club. what do you mean by that? >> he's putting together private secret meetings where they try to bring in outside groups who pour hundreds of millions of dollars into the campaign. one of the reporters got wind of it. karl sent notes out saying remember the rules of fight club. nobody talks about fight club. they don't want anybody to know wh what's happening. there's a lot of big players, karl rove, the cook brothers we talk about on this show and a lot of guys on capitol hill trying to get into the fund raising game like eric cantor. when you start talking about those sums of money and who controls it, there's inevitably a level of tension and who is going to make the decisions in where the money is best

directed. >> you call it a fight club. where is that organization of conservatives in terms of getting behind romney? is now the time to push in forward and step back from santorum and others? >> i think for the most part, if you talk about the people in the rove groups, the establishment, the unofficial establishment of the republican party, they want this over. they want romney as the nominee and want to begin going after barack obama. i think this is an important note that six months ago, people thought barack obama would have a huge fund raising advantage. i don't think it's true anymore. the totality of the outside groups and what romney will raise, they are a parody. it could change the dynamics. you are going to have money on one side and fight over ideology that often divides the groups. making the argument about

ideology that republicans haven't been conservative enough, which is going against the grain a little bit. there seems to be a perception on the pages of the new york times over the weekend. republicans are too conservative. i would love to hear from joe on that. >> joe, you want to chime in on that? >> yeah. that's one of the great ironies. you are constantly hearing and in the politico piece i did yesterday, it was playing off a must read that mika read in the times saying the republican party is too far right, too radical and too conservative. actually, that overlooks one of the great frustrations with the republican base. they haven't been conservative enough. yes. people go out and say inflammatory things, grab headlines, talk about policies most americans don't care about. they sound extremist. when you look at the bottom line, conservatives in the republican party know this party in washington, d.c., spent the

past decade doubling the national debt. they added $7 trillion to the medicare debt for a program that was already going bankrupt. you can go on and on about the foreign policy. most conservatives believe the party has not been conservative enough in the areas where it counts. yeah, inflammatory rhetoric, but not even conservative law making to back it up. of course, jim, the bottom line is, as you know, you look at the tea party congress that has been so extreme and so right wing and so reactionary. well, they have the checkbook and the debt went up p another trillion dollars their first year in congress. >> this is a huge fight behind the scenes and explains why ron paul does so well. there are a lot of conservatives who don't think a mitt romney is going to do anything other than a continuation of the bush theology on conservatism. it's not shrinking the size of

the government or pulling out of the wars. that is somehow romney has to figure out a way to navigate. if you don't get the tea party or the establishment enthusiastic about the campaign, they will lose. >> jim, we'll check out your new e-book, too. we'll talk about that tomorrow. next, tim tebow introduced to new york with the most fanfare in the history of back up quarterbacking. the question, how will he co-exist with the other young quarterback the jets have? i'm freaking out man, he's on my back about providing for his little girl. hey don't worry, e-trade's got a totally new investing dashboard. everything's on one page. i'm watching you. oh yeah? well i'm watching you, watching him. [ male announcer ] try the new 360 investing dashboard at e-trade.

[ male announcer ] try the new 360 investing dashboard havi ng amale announcer ] try the new 360 investing dashboard n irregular heartbeat havputs you at 5 times calgreater risk of stroke. don't wait. go to afibstroke.com for a free discussion guide to help you talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. that's afibstroke.com.

i'm michael bazinet, president of creative digital imaging of bangor, maine. we have customers all over the united states. we rely on the postal service for everything that we do. the eastern maine processing facility is vital to our operation and our success.

if we lose this processing fility we could lose clientele because of increased mailing times. we would have to consider layoffs as a result of that. closure of this plant will affect all of us. ♪

♪ >> on saturday night, tim tebow was spotted in the audience at the broadway musical, "wicked" in new york city. when he got up to go to the bathroom, peyton manning took his seat. come on. >> time for sports. back-up quarterbacks usually assigned quitely in the off season and recognized at the guy wearing a baseball cap and checking the out of town scores. not the case for the jets new back up. tim tebow announced yesterday

for the first time since he was traded over from denver. he was asked about the chemistry between himself and current starting quarterback, mark sanchez. >> from my conversations with him, you know, he was excited and he was excited about working with me. i'm excited about working with him. i have a lot of respect for him, you know, as a football player, as a person. he's handled himself with class and integrity. he's won a lot of games as a quarterback. i think we'll have a great working relationship. >> a few hours after that, mark sanchez spoke with the media on his own conference call saying we are adding another player, we are not replacing anybody. i'm confident in my abilities. i'm the same guy who helped the team win a lot of games. playoff wins. that's from mark sanchez. it will be difficult for him to ignore tebow. this is a billboard of tebow

advertising jockey underwear that greet drivers entering the tunnel. the deli has a tim tebow sandwich, weighs over three pounds. the village voice did not give it a good review. >> no. >> one more thing, the media group came out with the most coveted celebrity endorsements on the face of the earth. number one is still oprah. two, o'dell, three is kate middleton, four is tim tebow. >> willie, i was listening to the press conference while we were heading to the airport. man, i don't know if you heard the whole thing or not. the sports press is tough. tim tebow owned them. they asked about the billboard. they asked about the broncos. they kept trying to pull him into controversies. he kept saying i can't control

the billboards. i just want to be a jet. i can't control what happened before. i just -- you know, i'm excited to be here. the guy, i must say, most veterans that have been in the game -- well, in fact, i have never heard anybody own the new york press the way he did. he was very respectful, but man he is a kid who has maturity well beyond his years. >> he did a great job diffusing controversy. >> concerned at the end, though. he said my girlfriend kate and i -- >> no. >> we are excited about being in new york. then kate upton came out, they hugged. is that necessary? sanchez, look at sanchez's remarks. a little defensive. i have won a lot of football games. mark, mark, put the pen down. don't write statements, just practice and win and you'll be

fine. right, willie? >> he almost did win. they have a good quarterback. 19, is she really 19? >> i checked wikipedia, which is never wrong and she was 19. >> i'm stunned. i'm stunned. joe, one more thing to point out, the united states men's soccer team lost to el salve dor. they don't get to go to the london olympics. >> i would respond but -- >> we're losing barnacle over here. it's been a great ride, mike. >> anyway, they lost and they are not going to the olympics. it's unfortunate. >> it's heart breaking. >> it breaks your heart. up next, the most read opinion pages.

we'll be right back. [ todd ] hello? hello todd. just calling to let you know i'm giving you the silent treatment. so you're calling to tell me you're giving me the silent treatment? ummm, yeah. jen, this is like the eighth time you've called... no, it's fine, my family has free unlimited mobile-to-any-mobile minutes -- i can call all i want.

i don't think you understand how the silent treatment works. hello? [ male announcer ] buy unlimited messaging and get free unlimited calling to any mobile phone on any network. at&t.

you're probably muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air. you know, those farmers, those foragers, those fishermen.... for me, it's really about building this extraordinary community. american express is passionate about the same thing. they're one of those partners that i would really rely on whether it's finding new customers, or, a new location for my next restaurant. when we all come together, my restaurants, my partners, and the community amazing things happen. to me, that's the membership effect.

♪ pretty shot of washington, d.c., as the sun comes up over the white house. welcome back to "morning joe." time for the must read opinion pages. you found a good one about the health care reform act. let me read one from "the washington post." i don't think you'll agree with it. >> why would you assume such a thing. >> i think it's a balance. >> i'm open minded. >> not about this. >> it will open my mind and change my perspective. open my heart to those less fortunate than myself. >> really? then you would want everyone to

have access to health care. >> convince me a centralized scheme will help. >> scheme? scheme? really? >> it's a term of art. >> yeah. >> a risky centralized scheme. >> a risky one. so the one we were in before this was not risky at all and not expensive? right. okay. washington post. wh holds the key to health care reform. >> no. i haven't had my coffee yet. go ahead. >> maybe not for you. for those unu willing to buy health care, it's inevitable they will need health care services at some point in their lives. tomorrow, that's today, if the court strikes down the mandate. does the president's health care unlawfully twist the arms of states to expand medical coverage to the poor?

>> by the way, there were other ways for the president to do this for democrats to do this. they could have raised taxes. they could have done a lot of things that may have been politically unpopular. instead, they tried to sort of fudge it and give a little bit to everybody. then say we are going to do it through an individual mandate. >> you think they could have raised taxes? >> constitutionally, they could. it would have been less popular. we are going to raise taxes on the rich and make sure the poor get health care. >> the irony is when obama was campaigning is he didn't want the mandate. >> he was against it. >> he said it's unfair to force people to buy insurance. >> taxes are going up next year anyway. the top rate goes to 49%. >> let's read david brooks. >> mm-hmm. step to the center. >> step to the center. david brooks is actually one of

the columnist that is the president reads religiously and believes david brooks holds the the center of the republican party. he says i think the obama administration made an error in cost control elements in the health care system. there's no way the government can adapt quickly to failure. there's no way planners can know how many employers drop coverage, how many doctors refuse to see patients, how to write up rules for state insurance exchanges. how many people will or won't enter high risk pools, cuts in the executive branch. how doctors will evade cost cuts. how spending is best controlled and of course that is michael steele, what conservatives worry about when you have these big centralized plans or schemes, depending on your world view.

the law of unintended consequences. >> joe, this government can't even pass a budget, how are they going to make these decisions. they can't organize themselves to be honest with the american people to lay out a financial strategy to get out of a mess. how do they deal with the new messes they are creating? they can't. this is not the role for government. the government can't manage that level of detail in people's lives when it comes to health care. it's been the central point from this argument. when you open it up, how the polls are reflecting this number. that's why. >> i could say, sam, in my view, then i certainly want to get yours. they can't balance their budgets. they can't control government. they can't even work together. how are they going to manage the health care details of over 300 million americans? >> i think it would be fair criticism if this bill, for

instance, used medicare and used the public option. the government would be making those decisions. they are forcing people into the private market saying okay, let's give them financial incentives to buy insurance. that will get them a private plan. you can make the case it's an overage of federal power. one thing david brooks is missing, this plan allows the law if they meet minimum standards of coverage. vermont is doing that. they think it's better for their state. there are other states putting together plans saying the federal government can't tell us what is better for ourselves. let's do it ourselves. david brooks misses that. >> give him a call. >> i will. >> there's a strong point against this concept, which is why we are where we are. we are at the supreme court. kelly, there are basic improvements across the board that people can get their arms around with this.

are there not? >> they are things people gravitated to. republicans will talk about the benefits of protecting those with pre-existing conditions or sick children do not have a cap on the coverage available. they say do it in smaller pieces. if this were struck and repealed to not ignore the benefits but litigate those in smaller chu s chunks. part of the web of the big bill is if states pull out, if medicaid expands. >> it's tough. 17% of the economy fixing it. one big bill is tough. that's why. >> getting anything small done seems impossible so this seems monumental. i don't know if i blame them for trying. we'll be back with willie's news you can't use, including mitt romney grilled about "the hunger games." it's going to be awkward, i'm sure. >> of course it was awkward. >> he called it wonderful. >> a flick.

>> a flick. [ male announcer ] any technology not moving forward is moving backward. [ engine turns over, tires squeal ] introducing the lexus enform app suite -- available now on the all-new 2013 lexus gs. there's no going back. see your lexus dealer.

hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. every week they lower thousands of prices and check over 30,000 competitor prices. check out that low price. you want to grab one? grab two. [ male announcer ] that's the walmart low price guarantee! see for yourself how much it can save you.

[ male announcer ] want your weeds to hit the road? hit 'em, with roundup extended control. one application kills weeds, and stops new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control.

it is time for a little news you can't use. so, mitt romney took a breather from the campaign trail over the weekend. >> oh, don't do that. >> to see a heart warming film about children killing other children for the a mumusement o

other people. my dad is finally getting r & r at the movies. they saw "the hunger games" that brought in 155 million bucks in the opening weekend. >> wait -- wait, willie. show the picture again. they did not take those little kids to see a movie where teenagers are hunted and killed, did they? >> i believe they did. >> he was asked about it. >> they are young kids. the candidate gave his review yesterday of "the hunger games" to wolf blitzer. here is what he said. >> i enjoyed it. i read the books, too. i read serious books but now and again, for fun. it was a first time to see the flick. >> it's pg-13. is it too violent for young kids? >> i think pg-13 is an

appropriate indication of the film but i'm over 13 now. >> he's over 13 now. >> that's the thing. >> he did not read the books. we know he is not telling the truth. i don't know if he went to see the movie. do you go hunting? yes. i shoot varmints. i like talk kis. they are not called that anymore. come on. >> he's a nerd. >> it's part of a trend. remember last year, our friend jamie sat down with mitt romney and he disclosed he's a fan of the young adult "twilight" films. >> no, he is not. >> i like silly stuff, too. i like the "twilight" series. i thought that was fun. >> you like vampires. >> i don't like vampires personally. i don't know any. my granddaughter was reading it. that's fun. >> vampires and science fiction,

i don't think anyone would have guessed this. >> he likes silly stuff. >> he's a nice guy. nice. >> a grin. >> he's nice. >> he is a nice guy, but come on. take your kids to see hugo or -- >> lorax. >> or if you and your wife watch "midnight in paris." don't go see movies we know you are not watching. come on. are you disturbed by this like i am? >> i actually take him for his word. he likes a young, adult book once in awhile and wants to see if the film is true to the book. i'm trying. i'm trying. >> george w. bush listened to country music and ate pork ryne. >> stop. >> you guys are going to have company down there. gene robinson and chuck todd

joining the conversation. keep it on "morning joe." all right, let's decide what to do about medicare and social security... security. that's what matters to me... me? i've been paying in all these years... years washington's been talking at us, but they never really listen...

listen...it's not just some line item on a budget; it's what i'll have to live on... i live on branson street, and i have something to say... [ male announcer ] aarp is bringing the conversation on medicare and social security out from behind closed doors in washington. because you've earned a say. on december 21st, polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans?

the passat is one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. not that we'd ever brag about it. turn right. come on, nine. turn left.

hit the brakes. huh? how'd that get there? [ male announcer ] we can't hide how proud we are to have nine top safety picks like the passat and jetta. so we're celebrating with our "safety in numbers" event. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 jetta for $159 a month. ♪ this is the most important issue in this election. it's one that encapsulates all the issues that are at stake in this very critical election in

our country's history. there's only one candidate who has the chance of win ining the republican nomination who can make this the central issue that will be a winning issue for us to win the presidency back. that's rick santorum. unfortunately, the worst person to make that case is mitt romney. that's why we are here today. >> i'm not going to workry about what rick is saying these days. i know when you fall further and further behind you get more anima animated. i have been able to connection with the american people. you are seeing more and more enthusiasm in my candidacy. we have to replace president obama. one difference between the two of us is if i'm elected president, i will repeal obama care. >> you know, he's very confident. >> yes. >> for a guy that just lost by 22 points to rick santorum. very confident. >> and the godfather of obama

care. sam stein is still with us. joining us on the set, editor of the washington post and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. host of the daily rundown, chuck todd and mike barnicle clinging to life. >> a lung transplant is coming through. >> like the lawyers at the end of a commercial. you say the titles fast. you have to get everything in. you say it fast. it's like the legal disclaimer. >> exactly. >> chuck todd brings me breaking news. i don't know how i missed this but new orleans talking about getting the big tuna. >> how about that? >> it's the saint's way of saying okay nfl, we'll find a hall of famer to do this.

>> sticking their finger in the chest of ga dell. >> yes. >> the saints have to feed -- >> no, i don't blame the saints. >> they need to make sure there's too many people writing them off. this is a bit of a marketing plow. i don't blame them. >> what is the purpose of coaching for a year. you are a hall of famer. >> it's what you do, man. >> why don't they hire phil jackson? >> that's an idea. >> mike barnicle, it's not like the new orleans saints aren't a great team. they are a solid team top to bottom. >> great team, great organization. this is who he is. this is what he does. he can't help himself. he and sean payton are linked at the hip. he's from the tree of coaching from a firm in new york and dallas, obviously and reached

out to parcels. this will be -- what it does is interesting. he lost being in the national football league by a handful of votes. he was upset by it. this will tack on another five years if he does this job. it will tack on another five years before he's eligible for the hall of fame, again. >> the lure of winning a super bowl. >> yeah. >> which he could do. a great quarterback, a great team that was just there. we'll get to politics in a second. >> be careful. i brought it up. >> it is -- the nfl is so hypercritical for them to lay down a one-year penalty when we shows week after week of dangerous head shots and they did nothing about it while guys were flying through the air. >> they have done something about it. look at james harrison and his relationship. >> i'm not convinced the saints

and redskins were the only two in the nfl. >> if any evidence comes up in the next couple months that there was another boundary, they have to match that punishment. he must know that -- that's what makes me think this is isolated. you can't go around -- you could suspend ten coaches. >> what i don't understand is why -- the players -- i know we're getting off. the players were the ones that funded or needed the money. >> yeah. >> nothing has been done. >> there is a little something going on in washington today. we might want to get to that. >> chuck, let me ask you about that. two-thirds of americans if you look at the cbs poll, two-thirds of americans want the individual mandate overturned. 38% of americans want the entire law overturned. one in four want to keep this

law in place. >> yeah. you know, the supreme court says so what. they are not supposed to be -- they are not supposed to look at public opinion. >> the question is, do they look at public opinion or think about the impact it would have on the political system? to me there's two -- >> tell you they do look at that. sandra day o'connor and anthony kennedy backed her in important abortion cases. actually looked at public opinion and referred to public opinion. i guarantee you, anthony kennedy, more than anybody else, he's going to decide the case, he looks at the politics. >> again, i think there's sort of two questions. i think that the supreme court shouldn't have blinders on about the political climate in a situation like this. imagine if they follow public opinion in previous cases.

i mean -- this is sort of to me i think that i have to think they are not going to -- the mandate is unpopular but it's a political decision. >> i promise you this, if 75% of americans supported the individual mandate, the supreme court would not touch it. >> by the way, those lawsuits would not have been filed. >> no. let's remember why the lawsuits got filed in the first place. >> when the decision comes down, it's in the heat of a presidential election. if they look at polls, which they are not -- they really are supposed to try and focus on the law. how can they not in the heat of this? >> let me say, if the supreme court didn't look at public opinion and look at the political realities of the day, roe v. wade would have been overturned several years ago. it's written in the decision. >> eugene? >> if they didn't look at public

opinion, roe v. wade would be overturned? >> i'll get the case law. if they weren't concerned about where america was politically on the issue of abortion, there's a possibility that roe v. wade would have been overturned. they made reference that overturning it would have had. i'm saying in this case, these polls actually do matter. there are justices that actually -- some do what the law says and stay focused on that. others are more pragmatic and political. >> i think it's basically right. what they really focus on is the relationship between congress and the president and the sort of separation of powers issues.

they would rather have these things settled by the political process. >> right. >> this is a huge matter of policy. generally speaking, they would rather have it decided by the political system. the government that we elect rather than the court. >> my gut especially when you know the campaign itself is going to be about this. you know the republican -- i mean mitch mcconnell said if he gets the senate majority, he is going to, the first thing he's going to do is vote. if that's what's going to happen, let the court of public opinion handle whether the likability of the mandate. let the court -- >> can i ask you a question? why didn't the obama administration do that? they could have done the antiinjunction route. it doesn't hit until 2014. >> it's delaying the court looking at it. >> i have heard from both sides.

i'm curious, why take the gamble right now in the heat of elections. it was easy to push off. >> there's two. it's an administration issue. they are starting to implement this more and more. the more the cloud was over, the harder to get the states to do something. >> but, i think the other part is they believe constitutionality they have an open and shut case. i don't think they think it is going to be closed. >> you think it's open and shut? they must have blinders on. really? >> it's weird. >> you are right. >> they look at scolea who made desessions. we can get someone like that. >> they think they are going to get roberts. >> they're not. >> the fun thing is i think we are seeing politics being thrown

at the court. you hear all these conspiracy theories. my favorite is there's going to be two opinions. roberts can write an opinion that says this law stinks, this is a dangerous, you go up to the line but i can't rule it out. >> you have to jump with the commerce clause. clearly, where you are compelling, conservative jurists would say you are engaging instead of a big commerce case law saying if you are going to have a barbecue restaurant off the interstate in birmingham, alabama, you have to serve everybody. you are engaging in commerce. you have made the decision to engage in commerce to sell ribs. the argument that a conservative will make on the individual mandate is you are making a decision not to engage in commerce, not to buy health care

insurance and the commerce clause does not give the government the ability to compel that action. i believe it's compelling to thomas, to aledo, to roberts. i don't know why people think roberts is going to expand the clause. >> people think roberts -- look, if the court is going that way, if it looks like it's going to be 5-4 with roberts decenting to uphold the law, then roberts will switch. roberts will go to the majority side. >> exactly. >> this is the other thing. when you say do they worry -- there is, again, it's all whispe whispers. it's criminology trying to understand the supreme court. citizens united isn't sitting well. didn't quite understand. didn't see the impact, political impact. the concern about a 5-4 versus a 6-3. a 5-4, no matter which side,

they will polarize the country. they don't want to be a part of it. >> say you are wrong and it's overturned. what is the political impact? >> it's tough on the president. it calls into question -- it creates a competency argument that the republicans have been wanting to make. the constitutional law professor couldn't pass a law. look, i think they are lucking out that it's romney as their opponent. >> they are. >> romney didn't spend a year and a half in his first two years trying to pass legislation that was unconstitutional. >> impressive impact on the base, too. the achievement of the -- >> if that's taken away, i think it's not good for the president. >> i think it's tough on the president because it is law. i think actually democrats in

congress get a whole set of issues to turn around and say wow, the conservative court didn't allow you to discriminate on pre-existing conditions. there is a few sets of issues to turn around and say you need to vote democrat because we need to put more jurors on the bench. for obama, it's tough. it's so associated with him. to spend that much political capital -- >> it's like sugar free lemonade. >> i get it. i think you are right. it's the route you go. >> it was easier to argue for the pre-existing stuff, keeping kids on health care until 26 than to say insurance coverage. >> you are not against kids getting health care? >> the thing is republicans will be smart enough to say the supreme court is not saying you

can't handle pre-existing conditions. figure out another way to do it. >> the individual mandate from law. it opens a huge political thing. lobbying congress to get it. >> my understanding of the interventions yesterday was he doesn't seem inclined to sever the mandate and say the rest is okay. i think, at least as far as he's concerned is upwards. >> the discussions continue today in the supreme court. they are going to talk about the individual mandate. the polls are interesting. why i think it's interesting. we have two big polls today. one, two-thirds of americans are against the mandate. the afghanistan poll that says seven out of ten americans want us out of afghanistan. you can understand how public events have pushed that afghanistan number. may not be anything specifically

to push the health care number. >> well, there's the sub poll that a good portion of people don't think it's going to make a difference in their lives. it's a problem. >> one in five americans don't think it will make a difference in their life. >> chuck todd, thank you. >> great football discussion. let's continue it. >> i'm going to get hate mail later. sorry, mika. >> thanks. how much time did we waste? seriously. up next, dad. dr. brzezinski and bad news out of afghanistan. what it means to the u.s. hi, dad. >> first, here is bill karinss with a check on the forecast. >> nice daughter/father relationship. we like that. big smiles everywhere. here are what the pictures looked like yesterday afternoon. windy and dry. in colorado, a fear of fire. it spread in a hurry.

one fay it willty. 900 homes had to be evacuated. the fire is still burning at this hour. impressive at the foothills of denver. it is cold. temperatures in the teens in new england. we are in the 20s from cincinnati to lexington, louisville to washington, d.c. the wind will be brisk. hopefully this is the last shot of cold winter air. middle of the country, you are fine during the day. kansas city, chicago, isolated strong storm late today. northern california and oregon, you are hit by three storms in a row. up to ten inches of rain over the next five days. you are watching "morning joe." beautiful sunrise but it's cold. it's brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] with the all-new e-trade 360 investing dashboard

free streaming quotes, all your investments, positions, and even your trade ticket are all on one customizable page. see the all-new 360 investing dashboard at e-trade. you're probably muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air. monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro.

♪

>> after my election i have more flexibility. >> yeah, i understand you. >> when assad starts murdering his own people, we go to the united nations. who stands up for them? it is russia with china alongside. in terms of a geopolitical foe, a nation on the security council, the heft of the security council, russia is the geo political foe. the idea that our president is planning on doing something with them that he's not willing to tell the american people before the election is something i find very, very alarming. >> welcome back. at 22 past the hour, joining us now here in washington, former national security adviser for

president carter, dad, dr. brzezinski, author of "america and the crisis, the global power." >> off a big long book tour and people are still asking you to speak about it. >> yes, and i'm still alive. >> looking pretty good. >> more than we can say for mike barnicle. >> he needs a lung transplant. >> russia, a good time to look at your book in temperatures of strategic vision. we heard the president's open mic moment. we have vladimir putin who wants to take over. the dynamic change and where does russia stand? >> in the short run, we are going to have a hard time with russia. putin is coming back to power. infuses with the idea to recreate fashion, the old russian empire or the soviet

union. what does it mean? it means essentially drawing under russia, not into russia, the state that is became independent when the soviet union integrated. it requires an appeal to russia and crackdown on the opposition. so, in the short run, i think we are going to have difficulties. in the long run, it's waging a losing battle. these countries don't want to be part of the union. secondly, balancing russia nationalism is the new middle class, which is increasingly becoming a civic society. cosmo poll tan and wanting to be like europe. >> does that attitude win the day more than say, the attitude of resentment that cropped up in russia after 1991 where people had been raised to believe they were the global super power,

superior to all else on earth. they saw social anarchy, political anarchy, the loss of satellite states. is that an ongoing struggle between two camps? >> yes, yes it is. it was a loss of self-confidence. loss of great power status and associated with the ruling elites. the secret services, the communist party apparatus and related functionryes. that is now disintegrated. there's ofblg, the army. how are you going to revive it? there's an appeal that is strong in russia. in the big cities, which are more cosmopolitan, exposed to the world. for the first time in russian history, people can travel anywhere in the world and people have no fear. this is so new.

it's cumulatively beginning to change things. there are two possibilities for putin. either he stays on course where he will eventually lose because he will lose his social base or he will change. he's not all that stupid. he might change. >> let's move to afghanistan. in light of several extremely ugly moments that have been reported, the latest three nato troops that have been killed this week by afghans. there's a cbs/new york times poll that the most stunning number is 69% responded saying we shouldn't be involved. public opinion here showing to be shifting, if it hasn't already been shifted for quite some time against our engagement here. >> we have been there very long because for seven years the bush administration which correctly went in to overthrow the taliban and eliminate al qaeda.

instead, it started another war. we have been dealing with this problem seriously for 12 years. for the public. 's too long. the president has no choice. we ought to disengage. >> two or three years ago, i don't know when it was you said this on the show, you called me stunningly super. kidding. you said that -- revenge. >> no, no revenge here. i'm smarter than that. you punch me one time and i stay down. >> no, no, please, please. >> that was a sign of affection. >> we don't need to relitigate things, we are good. >> trying to make my point. >> good, keep going. >> offhanded humor. it's what we do. you said before, i heard many people say you have to, when you look at afghanistan, you have to separate al qaeda and the tall

pan. al qaeda wants to blow up americans and american buildings, the taliban doesn't. at what point, i'm having a hard time sorting through this, at what point did we stop engaging in an antiterrorist campaign. at what point did it turn and we decided to keep the taliban out of power instead of killing al qaeda? when did our mission expand and we lose focus? >> the definition of the objectives expanded ahead of the military engagement. bush ii administration talking about creating a modern afghanistan and democratic afghanistan and so forth. in addition to fighting the taliban and trying to destroy al qaeda, we engage in a kind of managed work to create a modern afghanistan. i think it was the disproportion

between means and ends. today, we are trying to create balance by talking to the taliban and destroying the top network of al qaeda and striking enough of the balance with pakistan that? addition to talking with the taliban, we create a regional umbrella with all the neighbors and major powers behind the neighbors, india, china and russia. >> in the interim between when the bush ii kind of embarked on this nation building exercise and today what happened on the obama administration was developing a plan for that. a counter insurgency plan and also putting in the resources that are supposed to accomplish this. my question is, is this -- is this at all realistic? are we -- is it possible to do a successful counter insurgency

and how, by the way, do you define successful? >> i don't think it's possible to do an entirely successful counter insurgency on the basis of foreign troops. especially in the kind of isolated id owe sin cattic society of afghanistan. this can only be done by other afghans. we don't have time for that anymore. the public is tired. we have to disengage. we are taking a chance. we are hoping to combine it with enough talk with the taliban and enough of the regional umbrella that something stays behind and endures and finds its own balance. >> can we talk about what the dangers are? not just talking about leaving afghanistan to whatever forces come in, but actual dangers to the military, pulling back, intelligence operations whether it's gathering intelligence on the pakistan/after afghanistan

border. before saying yeah, we should expedite the troop withdrawal. >> once you decide to withdrawal, expediting it makes sense. those who wish us ill are not going to wait. they will take advantage of it and will start striking at us more ferociously. once we set on the course of the engagement, it's better to do it fast providing we can couple it with two other processes. the taliban will see pay off for itself in holding back. hopefully, the neighbors will try to create -- >> what kind of incentives do we give the taliban? >> the fact we are getting out. i think that's the biggest incentive. >> why not just say get out. we know you are getting out. do it on our terms. >> they have to consider the possibility, we can't get out. >> be vague with them. >> yes. they are paying a price, too. they are not doing all that well. the notion they are invincible

is a myth. in some parts of afghanistan, particularly those they are quite strong. if you look at the map of afghanistan, they are strong in some but not overall. >> gotcha. >> and it bears repeating. the taliban is extremely unpopular in their own country in afghanistan. >> in the city, especially. >> especially. if you are the taliban and you can strike a deal and get the united states out, you have to look at what they are driven by. they are not fighting an international jihad against the united states of america. >> yeah. >> they want their country back, to run it by nine century standards. >> we have afghanistan and we have to think of something else. if we get into a war with iran, there will be another front. pakistan is the eastern front. if we get into a war with iran, they will help from the west. that whole western region of

afghanistan, which is specific could become inflamed. it depends on whether we can avoid that war. >> gotcha. >> let me ask about syria. they announced there's another proposed six-point peace plan with the syrians. how aggressively should we -- let's just assume the peace plan is in place and the status quo as it is today continues moving forward. how does the united states deal with a country where president obama said their leader must step down? >> my personal view is we shouldn't make statements like that. we are there to enforce them. as a matter of practicality and common sense, what we are trying to do is sensible, that is work through others. i have been advocating strongly that we take the position, this

is a nation which the lead ought to be taken by turkey and saudi arabia. we'll back whatever they want to decide. if they want a war, we will help them the way they did in libya. if they are not prepared to do it, we'll support them and see if their approach works. we should not take the lead. >> i have to ask you this question. something fascinating happened. the president said mubarak must leave. he did leave. we are trying to sort through what that means a year later. i thought it was fascinating the muslim brotherhood came up and told hamas, get in line. we are going to deal with all factions and with the palestinian authorities. you guys need to start -- they didn't say need to start talking peach, but it seems to me, you know, it's the law of unintended

consequences. the muslim brotherhood rise in egypt may bring hamas to the table and the peace talks. how did you take that news? >> it's a good point you are making. it's a very good point. >> i know it hurts you to say that. is that not fascinate iing? >> stop. >> i'm just having fun. isn't that fascinating? you never know how things are going to -- >> you're right. in a way, if i was an israeli, i would say to myself, hmmm, this is menacing. it's a country of 80 million people. in another way, it sort of opens up a possibility. let's grab with it and run with it. israeli/egyptian peace means they are not faced with hostile united states. it's a fundamentally important re reality. israelis take advantage of it. fashion out something that can work with the hamas and provide

the basis for a fair, equitable settlement. >> there are many things to pay for. ransom to bring back the transportation secretary's son at the same time. there may be opportunities. >> dad, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. the book is "strategic vision." thank you very much for being on the show, again, dad. >> you can say putting up with joe. >> thank you for putting up with joe. >> it's always a trial. >> yeah. yeah. trust me, i understand that. coming up, the fight over health care. we'll talk to former white house adviser zeke emanuel. at the court yet for the historic arguments. "morning joe" will be right back. this is delicious okay...

is this where we're at now? we just eat whatever tastes good? like these sweet honey clusters... actually there's a half a day's worth of fiber in every ... why stop at cereal? bring on the pork chops and the hot fudge. fantastic. are you done sweetie? yea [ male announcer ] fiber one. are you done sweetie? yea ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. there's an insurance company that does that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

hey, heard any updates on the game? i think it's final seconds, ohh, down by two, shoots a three, game over. so two seconds ago... hey mr. and mrs. harris, where's kevin? say hi kevin. hi. mom, put me down. put...the phone...down. hey guys. did you hear... the choys had their baby? so 29 seconds ago. well we should get them a gift. [ choys ] thanks for the gift! [ amy and rob ] you're welcome! you're welcome! [ male announcer ] get it fast with at&t. the nation's largest 4g network. at&t. ♪

live pictures outside the supreme court where supporters and opponents of the president's health care law gather for another day of pivotal arguments. we'll show you more of that and

tell you about the story next with dr. sooem emanuel and senator ron johnson. they have names like idle time books and smash records

and on small business saturday they remind a nation of the benefits of shopping small. on just one day, 100 million of us joined a movement... and main street found its might again. and main street found its fight again. and we, the locals, found delight again. that's the power of all of us. that's the power of all of us. that's the membership effect of american express. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this.

it's a smart way to go. ♪ on december 21st, polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans?

all right. it's time to stop talking about our medical problems. oh my gosh. >> mika, we are on the air. you can never tell by the way, senator, when we are on the air and off the air. be careful. >> be very careful. >> right, right, right. >> we are talking about private medical things, don't assume we are off the air.

>> we are confirming. >> i know that. >> we are confirming that taking aspirin is very good. anti-inflammatories. >> for cancer. >> your brother -- prostate cancer. you say colon cancer. i'm taking lipitor sitting at 230 and my cholesterol drops 100 points but mika says there are side effects. >> there are. >> like why you walk around in circles and act like a drunk. >> there's muscle problems. it depletes energy stores. >> and weight gain. >> it's important to have -- >> weight gain, right? >> sure, that's why you are gaining weight. >> what's that? >> co-q. >> two out of three americans in the latest cbs/times poll want

the mandate overturned. let's talk again, what's happened? why does the administration find themselves on the losing side after all this time? >> they haven't done a great job communicate i communicating the benefits of the law. that's been a problem. you have to separate communication from substance. on the communication side, they haven't been good. the law is still an excellent, you know, as i said, a very good law. you are not going to get an outstanding a law out of congress. it's a very good law. it's going to make the health care system better. >> if only they had a good chief of staff. tell rahm. >> we should point out that dr. zeke emanuel aside from being doctor on the side is a former white house adviser for health care policy. this will explain everything. >> you were asking for him.

>> what are we looking at here? >> what are we looking at? >> i have no idea. >> that's the promise in terms of what he said the cost of an average family plan would be. by the end of his first term, it would be down by $2500 per family. it's up by $2200. it's a $4900 difference. it's a $4900 broken promise. >> i'm going to hand exhibit one to council. while you ask the senator a question. >> i'd like to go to what's happening at the supreme court and what is the fundamental problem with the health care law that brings us to this point that you think does not help america go in the right direction. >> first of all, let me answer why i think americans understand this law shouldn't go forward. government has no capability of

controlling one sixth of our economy. what's at stake is our one last shred of freedom. if they can force an american to engage in a particular form of commerce, buy health care so they can regulate it, it's the final shred of freedom. >> that's the very first time it's happened? >> yes, in terms of the government forcing you to buy something to engage in commerce. >> that is absolutely untrue. >> tell us what else. >> george washington required american households to have a gun. in the heart of atlanta case, the supreme court required people who live in the south to serve blacks. against their conscience, against what they wanted. they require d people to get vaccinated against what they wanted. the supreme court and the country have long time said that for the common good, for an individual's benefit you can require people. congress has the authority,

under the commerce clause to require people to do things for the good -- >> one second. his brother, is a half doctor. the good doctor is a half constitutional lawmaker. >> i taught law at nyu. >> oh my god. >> i'm a business guy. let's go back to this, the basic precedent, the wicker versus philbin. it's what it's come under. >> you lost 85% of the public. >> this is very simple. that case was about the federal government not allowing a wheat farmer to grow enough wheat for his own personal con sumpx. it's what allowed this clause. what is a more basic human right than to grow food. >> you made his point. this law -- this law, the

supreme court held up this law from the 1940s. you bring up this law, it's 70 years that's 70 years of precedent. of course we think this is ridiculous. >> we are being held hostage to freedom-restoring precedent. >> it's 70 years old. you have to make a different argument. >> senator, in the last 70 years, have americans been free? >> our freeage is shrinking. >> hold back. let me read this. this is the key. >> let me read this, really quickly. first of all, i would say that you can compel people to do things but you can't compel people if they don't want to engage in commerce. >> but everyone has said that there's no difference between buying and not buying insurance for the following reason. you don't buy insurance, you end up in the emergency room and what happens?

you have just shoveled the cost on to the doctor or the public. >> good lawyer, though. >> actually, though, you're making an argument in theory that is going to expand the commerce clause. >> no, it's not expanding it. >> of course it is. >> the commerce clause allows commerce to regulate interstate commerce. helping -- >> is that freedom? >> no. i've already said on many occasions you can't force people to buy broccoli. >> why not. >> i'm about to say so. if you would stop adoring me, i could get to the facts. in health insurance you cannot have a health insurance market unless you have everyone in the market. and the reason is, the healthy people will come out and they will only come into the market when they need it. in the broccoli market, we have broccoli without forcing people to buy it. health insurance, we've tried to

experiment. don't have it voluntarily and we'll see if people buy it. the obama time where it worked was in massachusetts. >> let's go from the law to being practical. >> okay. i'm happy to be practical. >> you are, most of the time, a practical man. david brooks, america's favorite columnist, says, i think the obama administration made a disastrous error. there is no way government can adapt quickly to failure, how many doctors will refuse to see patients in extended medicaid. congress won't be able -- or how congress will undermine painful cuts. how doctors will evade cuts to control their revenue, how doctor revenues will pop up. david brooks makes a very practical point. a centralized state is not going to be able to adapt quickly.

>> the health care reform is not a centralized state. >> 15,000 pages worth? all right already 15,000 pages? >> let me just say, you have 18% of the gdp, which are trying to regulate. okay? that is $2.6 trillion. it's the size of the economy. >> i know. they can't do it. it's going to fail. >> you cannot have regulations. the government has to set ground rules. those ground rules are going to take a lot of pages. >> all right. >> we still have a lot of the free market. we have insurance companies, all the doctors and all of the hospitals are liberal. >> okay. the cbo estimates only one million people would lose their employee-sponsored care. and the decision for employers moving forward is, do you pay $20,000 for an insurance plan in 2016 or do you pay the $2,000 penalty? again, you're not employing your employees to the wolves. you're making them eligible for

huge subsidies. the fact that this is going to reduce the deficit is total fiction. it's going to cost trillions of dollars and we simply can't afford it. >> senator, thank you. >> all right. doctor, you are a sweet angry kermugeon. >> you know, the first time he came on here he was, i believe health care for all americans is important. now look at this. he's like ari. ari is like him. >> oh, god, i'm tired. you guys make me tired. >> senator, thank you for being here. >> i enjoyed it. >> great debate. great debate. >> i've got more grass. >> i'm sure you do. >> i'm a very simple man. [ male announcer ] want your weeds to hit the road? hit 'em, with roundup extended control. one application kills weeds, and stops new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control.

greetings from the people here sure are friendly but some have had a hard time understanding my accent. so to make sure people get every word of the geico savings message i've been practicing how to talk like a true chicagoan. switching to geico could save you hundreds of dollars on car insurance... da bears. haha... you people sure do talk funny. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

the passat is one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. not that we'd ever brag about it. turn right. come on, nine. turn left. hit the brakes. huh? how'd that get there? [ male announcer ] we can't hide how proud we are to have nine 2012 iihs top safety picks. so we're celebrating with our "safety in numbers" event. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 passat for $219 a month.

on tomorrow's show, we'll talk to senator joe manchin, former senator arlen specter and friend of the show, digger phelps. we're talking about the health care law.

hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. sure. cake or pie? pie. apple or cherry? cherry.

oil or cream? oil or cream? cream. reddi-wip uses real dairy cream. nothing's more real than reddi-wip.

this is the most important issue in this election. it's one that encap pew lates and one candidate who has the chance of winning the republican nomination who can make this the central issue that will be a winning issue for us to win the presidency back and that's rick santorum and, unfortunately, the worst person to make that case is mitt romney ands that why, as i said, we're here today and here's not. >> i'm not going to worry too much about what rick is saying these day. i know when you fall further and further behind you get more animated. i've been able to connect with

the american people. as you go across this country, you're seeing more and more enthusiasm for my candidacy and a recognition that we have to replace president obama and one big difference between the two of us is that if i'm elected president i will repeal obamacare. >> good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at washington, d.c. back on the set, sam stein, michael steele, kelly o'donnell, and out of new york, willie geist and mike barnicle. guys, a lot to talk about. bill, the supreme court case, an unbelievable poll, i think, coming out. not only on the health care law and what americans want but also in afghanistan. americans have some very clear-cut decisions, made up their mind on health care and on the war. >> yeah. the question of the war, the "new york times" poll, it's not just the number, which is that 7 in ten americans think we shouldn't be fighting in

afghanistan. it's the jump, up 14 points. there's not a lot of mystery to it. you can walk through all of the bad things happened with staff sergeant robert bales, the burning of the koran and nato troops have been shot by afghan soldiers. there's a slow, steady beat now of the american people saying we ought not be there anymore. >> sam stein, you look at the cbs poll that came out, the "new york times" poll that came out yesterday. the first case -- and by the way, arguments i thought were fascinating. the supreme court said, we're not going to put this ouf until 2014. in fact, it's jermaine now. we're going to fight now. let's put a poll up. it's a pretty clear-cut decision that 26%, only one in four americans, want to keep the

entire law in tact. 29% want to overturn the mandate. an additional 38% want to overturn the mandate and the entire law. my gosh. is that -- >> i'm not a mathematician. >> that looks like 67% want the mandate overturned. two in three americans. and it's not like the supreme court looks at the nation before making a decision. >> well, there is bad news that generally turns the public against you and with afghanistan there's been a series of terrible news developments hath have gradually -- not gradually but have -- opponents of the law, supporters of the law three to one on air going against the law. i'm not saying that's the only reason that the law is

unpopular. but that contributes to it. now, there's some solace in those numbers. if you bring out the individual provisions. for instance, 85% of people don't want you discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions. that's nice. but you can only have that if you have the mandate and people clearly don't like the mandate. >> let's bring up the numbers again and i'm going to go to michael steele. michael, you look at those numbers again. the mandate, two out of three americans want that mandate overturned. you know, we republicans would love to say it's because of the worst bill in the world. i think this has more to do with messaging than anything else. listen -- and i say it this way because i don't think americans know what's in this bill after two years. >> you'd be surprised, joe. they do. and they know a lot more -- >> how do you know that? >> because i spent a year on the road with americans talking

about this bill. i spent 2010 and particularly the latter part of 2010 going on a bus to all 50 states. >> what part of this bill? i've been given speeches all over america for the past four years and most people ask me what the held's in the bill. >> well, look, you get into the nub of the details. they are absolutely right. even nancy pelosi said, we've got to pass it before we know what's in it. >> right. >> people got that. what they do get is the fact that they appreciate, you know, my kid is on till 26 and the portability. >> but you can have that without the mandate. >> but you can't have pre-existing conditions on there. >> yes, you can. >> how do you do that? >> we had that debate before. >> you can pass an individual bill requiring that portability. >> but the whole idea that you have a young insured, then you can afford it. that's the point of the mandate. if you have young, healthy people required to pay into the system, you can then afford,

insurers can afford to take care of g of you. >> why are we sitting here surprised that 67% -- >> mike barnicle, the numbers haven't been that stark. there are a lot of things that the republican primary have done to damage the republican brand i believe that the last three months of the republicans hammering on mitt romney, supporting the same individual mandate that barack obama passed nationally has actually drawn people's attention to the individual mandate and 67% of americans don't like it. and, again, i think that's because in large part that's what the republican nomination has been about. >> joe, i'm coming from the same place that you are coming about. i don't think the vast majority of americans understand the mechanics of this bill and the question is, do you question the mandate, oppose the mandate? the question is, do you like the

bill? that's what they are asked. no, we don't like the bill because of what we've heard and what we've seen. the word mandate itself is a turnoff to most americans in that you're mandated to put into this thing. if they had changed the word, maybe it would be in better shape. >> and, mike, again, if the focus the past three months was on portability, keeping your kids on insurance until you're 26, if it was about people with pre-existing conditions can't be discriminated against by big, bad insurance companies, well, those numbers would be reversed. the focus has been on the individual mandate and the obama administration and democrats never sold this bill to the american people. the polls never showed they did. and when americans are just hearing that the federal government is going to force you to do something, compel you to do something, that cuts against the grain of most americans. >> i want to be clear here for

those that are listening. a the lot of times when somethi goes wrong, it's not the issue itself. in this case i can say, i'm against this law. >> yeah. >> i believe the individual mandate is unconstitutional. i will be happy if the supreme court overturns it but i am still saying, this is a communication issue because we're going to get to afghanistan in a second. i've been hearing for four years out on the road americans want us out of afghanistan. i just haven't heard the clarity on health care reform. how's it going to affect us? and it doesn't go into -- it doesn't go into effect for the most part until 2014. this has been a jumbled mess. what does it mean -- >> i was out on the road with michael in 2010 listening to that kind of criticism and i spend my days on the hill where democrats have talked about the

popular elements. part of the problem is, we have such a short-term experience, the idea that something is not implemented for a few more years and then the fact that this was debated in the high court yesterday won't go into effect until 2015, that's a long time somebody to deal with something complicated. >> what will happen to the democrats if it's overturned? are they looking forward to using that as a political issue against a supreme right -- >> absolutely. and i think that's why they were more mobilized. i spent a lot of time outside the court and it certainly seemed to me that those in favor of the law were present in much greater numbers. they were organized. they were wearing white coats of medical doctors, families there that were sick -- >> in terms of saying the supreme court just took coverage away from 2.36 million americans or allowed companies to

discriminate. >> that's a powerful message. >> on the flip side, if you're the president, it would be incredibly damaging. you spent 16 months on your signature piece of legislation, wasted a ton of political capital to -- >> i don't know. i don't hear him campaigning on it. >> they spent the last two days trying to reclaim obamacare which is this toxic term. >> at the same time, you have pluff trying to drag their opponent, can kicking and screaming and taking responsibility for this health care law. they are calling the godfather of it. >> correct. >> i guarantee you -- >> what's wrong with that? >> well, if they pass legislation so drop gasoline to $2 a gallon, our political enemies are responsible. he's responsible for --

>> you can say that romney -- it helps him in his -- one thing, too. there's a new study that came out. the urban institute put it out last night. the individual mandate would affect 2 to 4% of all of the population. it's a small sliver. it just happens to be a very legal important debate. >> let me inform you that willie geist and i are very offended. i don't know what show he's been watching. i want to change topics. let's go to the poll on afghanistan. willy, we were talking about this at the top of the show. more than two out of three americans feel that the united states should no longer be fighting a war, a decade-long war in afghanistan. that is up 16 points since last november. and 68% of americans think that the war is going poorly compared to 25%. still, less than 50% of those polled think the u.s. should speed up the current 2014 time

line for withdraw. a little mixed message there, willy. bottom line, americans want out of afghanistan. >> yeah, that poll shows a lot of what we've been hearing on the ground. i guess the next question, then, joe, is what can the president -- what can anyone do with this information? 70% of the public thinks that we should get out. how much faster can president obama get us out? 2014 is the timeline as it stands right now. is it possible politically to even get the soldier out quicker. you hear some saying that there is time to make more progress, hang in there, we can't telegraph our withdrawl but that argument becomes increasingly less convincing. >> it certainly does. mike, i would obviously like the troops out tomorrow. i would like to start drawing down two, three yearsing auto. the bottom line is, you can't

take them out tomorrow. the generals on the ground have to be worried about the safety of the troops as we bring our men and women home. >> there is an element called force protection and withdrawal from any theater of war. afghanistan in a huge country. they spread out in the north and south. as you withdraw troops, you have to make sure that the troops that are remaining are protected by the force. i would say that there is plans for a precipitous withdraw after the election if president obama win. whether it's 10 or 15 thousand special opps troops, the weight of this war, a decade's worth of weight, of lives, blood, treasurer, families being completely disrupted by deployment, four, five, six deployment, that weight has

finally come home given the events of the past few weeks, the horrendous events of afghanistan. the war is finally coming home. coming up, we're going to talk to two legal experts who have very different views on how the supreme court should rule on this landmark hearing. also, this hour, actress kyra sedgwick will be here. bill, what is the weather like? >> we have an ugly end of march on the west coast. let's get into it. the windchill this morning, for march it's not unheard of it. it's been so warm it's a shock to the system. maybe a big shock. windchills in the teens, negative numbers up there in portions of northern maine. it will warm up and get better. out west, heavy rainfall, north of san francisco, portland is not going to be a fun place a

chance of rain each and every day and three periods of heavy rain in that. we could see flooding concerns in the oregon coastal area. as far as the tuesday forecast, a nice return to decent weather this afternoon with sunshine in the east. a few strong storms late today. kansas city, chicago, overall not bad for march. at least we're not dealing with snow even though it's cold. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

i remember the day my doctor told me i have an irregular heartbeat, and that it put me at 5-times greater risk of a stroke. i was worried. i worried about my wife, and my family. bill has the most common type of atrial fibrillation, or afib. it's not caused by a heart valve problem. he was taking warfarin, but i've put him on pradaxa instead. in a clinical trial, pradaxa 150 mgs reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin without the need for regular blood tests. i sure was glad to hear that. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding, and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have a bleeding condition like stomach ulcers, or take aspirin, nsaids, or bloodthinners, or if you have kidney problems, especially if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all medicines you take, any planned medical or dental procedures, and don't stop taking pradaxa without your doctor's approval,

as stopping may increase your stroke risk. other side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning. pradaxa is progress. if you have afib not caused by a heart valve problem, ask your doctor if you can reduce your risk of stroke with pradaxa. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. liberty mutual auto insurance.

congress has nowhere used the word tax. what it says is penalty. and so why is this a tax. >> if it's successful, nobody will pay the penalty and there will be no revenue to raise. >> that was a clip of supreme court justices steven briar and ruth talking about whether the penalty stipulated in the affordable care act is a tax. it's unusual that they are having audio. here with us now is solicitor general who defended the constitutionality of the affordable care act. neil is now a professor of security law. carr carrie wrote against the health care reform law. very good to have you both here. >> i'll ask you the question

that carrie asked you off camera. are you relieved that you're not arguing this case before the supreme court or do you wish that you were there in the middle of the action? >> i think the answer is both. it's a fun and important case to the country. i wish i were there in one sense but, boy, i had a nice rest yesterday. >> are you sur proprised by the numbers in the polls that two out of three americans want the mandate overturned? >> i think there's a deep policy debate. the court is deciding is this thing cons stult nal or not under the commerce constitution. i think it's a difficult question but one that the supreme court is going to come out and all of the leading many conservative judges in the country have said, it is constitutional. you can vote to change it in

congress. but saying that it is unconstitutional is a very dramatic thing. >> lawrence o'donnell said yesterday on his show, halfway through the clinton health care plan and then suddenly the committee said, wait a second. don't we need a witness to determine whether this is constitutional or not. >> and you have nancy pelosi who doesn't take seriously. >> right. this blind sidsided a lot of pe on the left? >> i think they were thinking, if this is such a great policy and it's an important problem, it must be constitutional. right? and the answer is, no. just because you think something is a great idea and the country is deeply divided over whether

it is a good idea. but if it's not in the constitution we -- >> let's start with you, carrie. this involves the commerce clause, right? >> right. that's the power to regulate commerce among the state and that's one of the powers given to the -- >> and this was expanded it especially during the 1960s on issues of integration, right? >> we've seen a commerce clause expanded over the century but even with the broadest cases that we see so far that allow things not just in commerce, in between the states, but allow regulation of activities that substantially affect commerce. even though none of them have gone as far as this, that is to require that all americans purchase a product. that's not regulation. >> so you're compelling somebody to engage in state commerce and you would believe and most conservatives, i would believe, this is a first.

why are we wrong? >> yes, as the lower conservative judges have said, to say that this is not commerce is a very difficult argument. look, everyone consumes health care and consume it in unpredictable amounts. 50% of americans are uninsured. you can get hit by a bus or have a heart attack. the results is that every ordinary americans who don't have health insurance have to pick up the tab. >> but if i decide -- and you know this, over the past 10 to 15 years, there have people that have completely opted out of the insurance program. i pay fee for services. especially younger people. i'm going to pay you $2,000 a year and you're going to take care of everything when i come in. and a person claimed that when she brought the suit. her name is mary brown.

she said, i'm going to stay out of the health care market. she declared bankruptcy because she couldn't pay her health care bills. >> that might not happen with you. >> it might not happen with you but it happens with the by and large number of people. >> i don't think you -- >> i'm talking about myself. i'm talking about other americans. i should have the option -- i should have the freedom to not be compelled to engage in this process if i make that decision for myself. >> but it's not just your freedom. it's my freedom to have to pay for you when you show up at the e.r. without health insurance. >> i may not show up without health insurance. again, i'm being compelled to do something to help the greater -- >> right. first of all, the law is already forcing us to pay for all of these things. people who can't afford health insurance can't afford health insurance next year or under this law either.

it's using tax subsidies. we're all still paying for people who can't afford health care but at the end of the day the government is not fudging here. everyone is not involved in the health insurance market. you're not taking people in the market. kwlour saying the vast majority of health care consume health care but that's not the reason to require all americans to purchase health insurance. >> practically speaking, though, we know that at the end of the day i'm going to end up in the emergency room. my children are going to end up in the emergency room so when i make the argument, which conservatives will make, that i should be able to opt out of this decision if i want to. yes, legally -- >> technically. >> -- you could make that argument but the reality is far different. isn't that going to be a problem for people who want to overturn this law? >> that's a problem not just in

health care but in so many areas. if you lose your job and don't have food, somebody is going to give you food. there are charities that step up and help you with these things. none of them are an excuse to ignore the limits in the constitution. >> mika? >> the argument, isn't it a basic right for everyone to have equal access to an extent and this doesn't get us there but doesn't it get us closer? and, why, we're paying for it any way. i would say it's a moral obligation to put this country in a forward direction. >> that's a mandate that we buy food for everyone and -- >> as a scholar on this panel -- >> yes, please. >> -- i think you've made some fairly bad misrepresentations of the law. there was a study out that says only 2 to 4% of the population will be affected by the individual mandate. two, in terms of purchasing health insurance, the law allows

subsidies to help you afford it to keep the costs down. can the government force you to by broccoli? i would say the argument is, you don't need people to buy broccoli to sustain the broccoli market. it's fine on its own. if you have something that allows prohibition, you do need something like the individual mandate to force people to participate in the health insurance market. >> that's where the government is arguing. they are saying, this is necessary because of this other law that we created. >> right. >> you can't bootstrap your way into having the ability -- >> why not? >> because it's a complete open door. that's what it comes down to. if i can create a problem with the law like the pre-existing conditions, then i can do anything i want to fix it. well, then there's nothing that the government can't do. >> the trouble with carrie's government is that applies to

what justice scalia said in the marijuana case. i think it's an extremely hard case for carrie, despite her br briefs, to say we're going to take this away from the people and -- >> but people don't have insurance, correct? >> under the new program they are receiving care but with government subsidies. >> people get care and we end up paying for it. so how is the government not already forcing this upon us? it doesn't make sense to me. >> it's a different thing to be paying something through a private means and having the government force you to pay it. >> but i'm being forced to pay for a lot of the different health crisis. >> the government is covering the cost of the emergency room visits. >> what congress said is this will cost the average american family 1,0$1,000 in uncompensat

care. >> should i be allowing to get out of my social security? >> that is an entire different law under which has within determined. it's a different thing. >> but they are taking money away from me to pay for all of the people. >> yes. but when the government takes a lot of money from us. don't get me wrong. that doesn't make it unconstitutional. what makes this unconstitutional is that there's no authority. there's very limited authority given to the federal government and there's no authority to force us to buy a product. there's a authority that they can regulate what they want to in commerce. >> it's a form of insurance. >> i'm not saying it's not a form of insurance. i'm saying the government doesn't have the authority. they were very concerned about the power of government. the states have the authority to do that. massachusetts has the authority to make you buy insurance. the federal government is

supposed to be very limited. >> obviously mike's question is what's the difference between forced and mike being forced to pay the social security and mike being forced to buy private health insurance? >> well, the private health insurance, the problem is, you're being forced into a market that you weren't in before. social security, you were regulating and engaging in something. >> eventually all of us will go sew a doctor. >> if that's true, the government can say, once you're in -- >> we won't all be forced to eat broccoli. >> you can't say that. political moods are inherently fickle. they didn't want to trust the american people. >> the old predictions, justice roberts is going to be obamacare's supporter? >> i really think he cares about

the institution of the court and i think that he's in many of the justices are going to look at these lower court judges, these prominent conservatives. the government could not have picked a better dream team to say this thing is unconstitutional. i think it's going to be hard to overturn. >> carrie, do you disagree? >> i'm leaning towards a 5-4 decision largely because of justice kennedy. he's very defensive of liberty. >> neal and carrie, thank you so much. fascinating. ke kyra sedgwick is next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪

[ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. the passat is one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. not that we'd ever brag about it. turn right. come on, nine.

turn left. hit the brakes. huh? how'd that get there? [ male announcer ] we can't hide how proud we are to have nine 2012 iihs top safety picks. so we're celebrating with our "safety in numbers" event. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 passat for $219 a month.

welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now is kyra sedgwick. they are here to talk about plastic pollution in our global waters. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> kyra, lay it out for us. 15 years ago when the bottled craze took off, you saw everyone walking away with a plastic

bottle in their hand. how bad is that for our natural resources? >> well, it's pretty bad. our oceans have become plastic soup of plastic. i think that the most -- the biggest misunderstanding about plastic is when we use a single-use plastic water bottle or single use anything is that it gets thrown away or recycled in a responsible manner. less than 30% globally, nationally and globally is actually recycled into anything other than more plastic. something less useable than a plastic water bottle. there's no away in plastic. most of it ends up in the ocean. and it is destroying our ocean. we know that plastic is toxic. we know that it is made up of toxic materials. and as it breaks down it becomes

even smaller and the fish ingest it. it's killing marine life as well as being ingested by the fish that we eat and there's a lot of studies pointing to toxicity in our fish and ourselves. >> >> a lot of americans have learned now the habit to separate the recyclables and 70 brs of that is not being used in the right way. >> the important thing to know is where there is good recycling, so in new york or much of california, that is the right thing to be doing. but the reality is that in most of the nation there just aren't recycling period. there are very few recycling facilities or even waste management facilities in developing country. and an important thing to know about this problem is that it's not just an aesthetic problem. it's not just an environmental problem. plastic waste on boeceaches in

coastal community is a problem. cities like los angeles and small and developing states that depend primarily on tourism for their economies, they have to spend a tremendous amount of money, cleaning beaches and removing out of their storm drains so there is not flooding. so there really is a global problem and the reason we're working together today is to really highlight the solutions to this problem. >> what about my saturday morning dilemma when i'm confronted with the question, paper or plastic at the grocery store? >> it's not really about paper or plastic. it's about disposable, single-use versus reusable. so if you can bring a cloth reusable grocery bag which are -- they are everywhere now. they are easy to buy and you can

keep using that, you are reducing your -- >> i'm not going to walk into a store with a little -- my little bag. >> they come very small. you can stick it in your pocket. you'll be so cool all of the chicks are going to dig you. you are disposing of less if you use once. if you're using a plastic bag, even a paper bag, and you're only using it once, it's really just a waste. >> what happens to all of this spl plastic, the bottles that go into the landfills? >> the pyramids will fade faster than plastic. great languages will be lost

before plastic disappears and even paper takes a long time to degrade. most of the things we create really does breakdown after time and doesn't use a great amount of toxins. plastic is on the other side of that coin. >> we've surrounded you about plastic bottles to see how quickly you would break out in- >> it's terrible. >> they are just props, of course. we would never use plastic. >> plastic is not evil. it's a valuable resource. >> absolutely. >> and in a lot of incidents in our computers and in certain situations where you really need a plastic water bottle. fine. it makes a lot of sense. it's a valuable resource we need to treat as a valuable resource and that's why we are trying to highlight the solutions which are especially to incentivize the industry to do a better job of designing better products that can be closed cycle.

we were just talking about star bix where they take the cups that they are using and turn those into paper napkins. that kind of closed cycle recycling is exactly what we need. we need that all around the world and we need to incentivize the industry to come up with those kinds of solutions because there's some great technology out there. >> kyra, what would you tell someone that they can do day to day to fix these problems? >> here it is. my stainless steel tap water. tap water in new york is incredibly healthy. you don't know where the facilities -- how clean they are and you don't know how much sunlight was hitting those plastic water bottles as long as they have to travel to get here. that's the carbon footprint. so i would say, you get yourself

one of these handy dandy things and -- >> do i look like i need to -- >> it's the guy thing. but let's go back to the water cooler days and let's ask the manufacturers that when we buy -- there was an article over the weekend by stoney field yogurt is taking responsibility for recycling their product and that was brought about by consumers asking for better -- all these mothers who are responsible in understanding, wow, i'm using this very small yogurt container for my kids and it's going into the garbage. it's creating a lot of waste. they have demanded better manufacturing and it's how they have done their business. so i really think that it's about that. and also about buying less plastic at the grocery store. when i go to the grocery store,

lee look tirelessly for the glass bottle of peanut butter because glass is not going to release toxins as it breaks down and it really does get recycled into something useful. >> michael steele and sam stein are in washington. what's going on? >> how you doing, guys? this is actually really -- i think kyra just raised an interesting question for me. you partially answered it when you were talking about the moms and others becoming a little more proactive here. do you see this as a little bit of a catch 22 where you've got the industry on the one side producing this product which is convenient and easy and everyone likes it and then folks on the other side using that product because it's convenient and easy and you're talking now about changing attitudes about this product. and how do you go about doing that so people really begin to appreciate the impact that it has on our future and in the

country? >> i think pictures of what is going on in the world will frighten people and help them understand that they are making an impact and not a positive one but i also really believe that, you know, the parents out there want their children to have the resources that we grew up with. they want to be able to send their kids into the ocean and to frolic around and have a wonderful time. they want the ocean, they want lakes, rivers to be clean and sustainable. they want to have clean drinking water. i think if they learned, really understand the connection of those two, i think they will want to be different. >> thank you. nrc has more information. kyra, one more thing on behalf of "closer" fans everywhere, why is it ending? why did you walk away? >> so i can take on my new

mantel for plastic. >> there you go. thank you very much. so, how was school today ? i have to be a tree in the school play. good. you like trees. well, i like climbing them, but i've never been one. good point. ( captain ) this is your captain speaking. annie gets to be the princess. oh... but she has to kiss a boy. and he's dressed up like a big green frog ! ewww. ( announcer ) fly without putting your life on pause.

be yourself nonstop. american airlines. you know who you are. you can part a crowd, without saying a word. you have yet to master the quiet sneeze. you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts. well, muddlers, muddle no more. try zyrtec®. it gives you powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because zyrtec® starts working at hour 1 on the first day you take it. claritin® doesn't start working until hour 3. zyrtec®. love the air.

[ coughing continues ] [ gasping ] [ elevator bell dings, coughing continues ] [ female announcer ] washington can't ignore the facts. more air pollution means more childhood asthma attacks. [ coughing continues ] log on to fightingforair.org and tell washington: don't weaken clean air protections. in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account

or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600. how's that for common sense? time for a check on business for the bell. for that we go to brian shactman. what is going on? >>. >> well, we are rooking at the best quarter and the jobs recovery is not as encouraging because the economy hasn't been as robust. people are going to see if there's going to be auto price in rebalancing.

there is wonder bread and twinkies and ding dongs. the unions say yes to raise cash because they are worried about their pensions and health care and the company wants to bust out their collective bargaining agreement. >> what did that have an effect on the market? >> absolutely none but i will see you guys there in a couple of weeks. >> come join us. >> i'm going to come say hello. coming up next, the best of "late night."

14 clubs. that's what they tell us a legal golf bag can hold. and while that leaves a little room for balls and tees, it doesn't leave room for much else. there's no room left for deadlines or conference calls. not a single pocket to hold the stress of the day, or the to-do list of tomorrow. only 14 clubs pick up the right one and drive it right down the middle of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org.

do about medicare and social security... security. that's what matters to me... me? i've been paying in all these years... years washington's been talking at us, but they never really listen... listen...it's not just some line item on a budget; it's what i'll have to live on... i live on branson street, and i have something to say... [ male announcer ] aarp is bringing the conversation on medicare and social security out from behind closed doors in washington. because you've earned a say.

spring has sprung a little early this year. and so i'm going to say what everyone's thinking. pucks tony phil is a liar. really. six more weeks of winter? oh, really? you'll have to speak up, phil, i can't hear you over the cherry blossoms. i believed you. i put all of my investments into park kas and swiss miss. i'm runned. i believe we've all been punxed. [ female announcer ] the road is not exactly a place of intelligence.

highway maintenance is underfunded, costing drivers $67 billion a year, and countless tires. which drivers never actually check because they're busy, checking email. this is why we engineered a car that makes 2,000 decisions every second. the new audi a6 is here. the road is now an intelligent place. ♪

[ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ...to skies around the world... ♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions are invisibly at work, protecting people's lives... [ soldier ] move out! [ male announcer ] ...without their even knowing it. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. every week they lower thousands of prices and check over 30,000 competitor prices. check out that low price. you want to grab one? grab two. [ male announcer ] that's the walmart low price guarantee! see for yourself how much it can save you. [ male announcer ] you plant. you mow. you grow. you dream. meet the new definition of durability: the john deere select series. with endless possibilities, what will you create?

♪ learn more about the new select series x310 with power steering at johndeere.com/x310. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.

splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweetener with b vitamins, the first and only one to help support a healthy metabolism. three smart ways to sweeten. same great taste. splenda® essentials™. what did you learn, mike? >> well, i learned a couple of things. first of all, people should have no expectation of taking a cloth bag into a grocery store to go shopping. >> kyra said that you should do that. >> no, i'm not going to do that. and the other thing i learned is that dominique strauss-kahn