disney. >> if you are in new york and you know about channel 1047 all the "morning joe" starts right now. >> this is not your father's republican party. this is a different party than i'm used to. and i've been around for a while. both in the house and the senate. it's a different party. and my guess is, the electorate -- the republican electorate is different than it's been the last 10, 12 years. and so, you know, that's the change that i'm most fascinated with watching, is how much has it changed? how far right has it gone or how anti-government has it become? i mean, it's just a different -- it seems there's almost a different language. this is the first time the republicans aren't hiding the ball. they're saying exactly what they think. they're not talking about

compassionate conservatism. they are not talking about the need for health care in america. but we have a different way. they're not talking about public education being the key to economic growth and stability in the country. they are just saying straight up, straight up what they believe. >> what's that about? >> what's he doing? >> i actually thought he was getting his sea legs. >> what's going on? >> let's just -- >> why would he show the competition? >> well, i don't know. >> do you think joe biden has a job for him? >> maybe he wants to work for sheafer. >> maybe. >> i don't understand. i don't know. >> what's the word i used for lewis that i wasn't allowed to say on television? >> you can't say that. >> i'm speechless. >> good morning, everyone. it's monday. >> it's not like it was "meet

the press." it was allen sheafer. >> they act like i don't exist. they are all nice to you, and then they just walk right by and people look down and nobody is your friend anymore, and all of a sudden you're dead. >> very good. >> welcome to "morning joe." we have with us on set mark halperin. also, financier and analyst ben rattner. >> do you think i'm holding this up? >> sanjay gupta had a great piece on sugar being destructive and apparently addictive. >> gupta hates sugar? >> notoriously anti-sugar. >> i witnessed you doing that first hand. >> did he talk about the part where it's delicious all the time? you have to get both sides. >> the american diet is going to

have to transform itself over the next two decades, or we are going to eat ourselves to death. >> come on. it's monday. my grandma lived to be 93. seriously? sugar and pop tarts for breakfast. >> i'm serious. it was great. >> addict of. >> it's just not the case. you guys are making this up. that's the problem with you liberal lilies in the mainstream media. >> did god create sugar, mika, or the devil? >> what do you mean? >> it was the devil. >> i was excited to see "60 minutes" and the important information for the american public. >> seriously, write your book and just be done with it. >> seriously. i'm going to write the book. >> it should be called "mood kill." why you should eat tree bark. you're ewell gibbons, and you

don't even remember who that is. >> it would be on the bestseller list. >> you think? >> absolutely. >> a lot of freaks eating bark out there. the tree bark diet. i want to go on to news. but first, i thought yesterday there were two fascinating articles that really talk about where we are as a society. maureen dowd about women. >> yes, yes. >> and then frank bruni, the father of two older boys and younger children, frank bruni, "the times." he was talking about this new show coming on hbo "girls," and specifically about how things have changed for our children. and people in their early 20s. did you read that, willie? >> yeah, i did. >> and, you know, the fact is -- and this is something that i've really been saying for years, because people have talked about the onslaught of pornography and what impact it was going to have

and some people suggesting that it was going to turn our children into stark raving mad sex addicts. i've been saying for a decade now that the concern is that it desensitizes them. >> exactly. >> and has a negative impact. and that's what bruni went into, that it has desensitized a lot of males, and unfortunately it is young women who are paying the price for that in relationships. >> i completely agree. and i think ultimately, we had an interesting conversation which i won't disclose at the dinner table last night on this topic with my two daughters. but i think it's potentially the changes we're seeing in our society and all the information that's available out there and images, vivid images, is very dehumanizing for young women, and young men, and we will find ourselves veering back to more

conservative social mores. >> well, i think it actually can create that response. >> we will have to learn the hard way, though. >> willie, i know you have a young girl and a young boy. >> yes, i do. >> and, again, i have been through this arc. i've got two boys in their 20s and two younger kids too. if you are at home and you are taking a 6-year-old or 7-year-old to school right now, if that child has access to an itouch, an iphone, a computer, then chances are very, very good given a couple of months to browse around without your direct supervision, they will find pornography because, yes, 6-year-old kids are not hunting for pornography, but they go to school with 6-year-old children who have older brothers and sisters who are there that show them that. it starts with the sight and it expands out. and this is pervasive. again, i'm talking about if your

children are 6 or 7. >> you know, my kids are a little bit older, and we watched this arc in a different way. when my kids were young, there were very few personal computers. then people had one personal computer. you put it in the kitchen and someplace where you could watch it. now, on any device, anywhere they go, they can see anything they want, regardless of their age. they may wander into it or go looking for it. but it's in their face. there's almost no way to avoid it almost. >> absolutely. >> it is in their face. and we'll wait until frank bruni comes tomorrow to talk about this. but, willie, i think we were pre-internet, prepornography growing up, at least online pornography. and i don't want to get too much into details. but, you know, we stumbled on when we were 13 or 14, most kids did it, onto some dad that kept a "playboy" around, and you see a picture, and it is by today's standards basically what would

be in a lingerie catalog. >> yeah. >> it was very general. but it was, you know, it was the greatest thing ever. >> right. >> but it was -- but it didn't twist you and distort you. that's when you're 13 or 14. today, 6-year-old boys and girls are seeing the most graphic, grotesque, violent images out there. and, again it is -- parents, i'm warning you, it is in your kids' life if they have access to any brouser on any device. >> it's so funny you say that about the "playboy." >> i won't say whose dad it was, but i was 8 or 9, and madonna was on the cover. we found it on some shelf and opened it and couldn't believe our eyes. >> what is that? what? >> you're right. the things you can see now, and frank mentioned it in the piece,

this "gq" piece that a young woman, says that based on the expectations of young men now are absurd, and don't lend themselves to a normal relationship with a woman. and i'm not saying that's every relationship. but when you've seen the kids all kids have seen in their life, they expect things that are not that romantic, let's say. >> and try and explain a relationship like that is something you want to wait for marriage for. talk to teens today. it's almost an impossible concept, and that's really sad. >> and a kid who is 22 or 23 who is getting into a really serious relationship and may get married, if it's a boy today, turning 22, 23, 24, chances are good he has been exposed to hard core pornography on some level, or she, for over a decade. by the time they reach this stage. and it is -- it is a -- it is a

serious issue. >> well, i have a few in that age group. and just to put a brighter side on it, i actually think they and their friends lead quite normal lives in terms of their relationships with women. i think there is some good things that has happened over the years in terms of what's allowed and not allowed on college campuses, and i see some of their relationships are quite commendable. >> and leads to a more open conversation as well, which is good. >> i want to follow up on what mika said, and i think there is, and i hope there, is a conservative backlash against this. from our children. who instead of going too far out there are actually -- it reminds me. i don't know if you saw monty python's "the meaning of life," but monty python was trying to make the point that school teachers can make anything boring. 10-year-old, 11-year-old boys in

a class, where i think it was eric idol is showing them what sex was like, and all the kids were like falling asleep. he's like, children, children, look up here. so it was a maybe having it in their face all the time makes it -- again, pushes them away from it. but frank will be here tomorrow. >> fascinating conversation. we'll have more of that tomorrow. >> we need to get maureen dowd on. >> fascinating piece. >> she was on your show. >> once. >> once and that was it. >> was it about pornography as well? >> yes. >> stay tuned. tomorrow, the gop candidates will face off again with primaries in washington, d.c., maryland, and wisconsin. yesterday, mitt romney picked up the endorsement of wisconsin's first term senator ron johnson. this morning, "usa today" and gallup has a new poll that takes a look at a dozen battleground states, including florida, pennsylvania, and ohio. the poll shows that president obama has pulled ahead of romney in the races by a total average

of nine points, an 11-point swing from last month. the biggest reason behind this shift looks to be the female vote. president obama now leads romney by 18 points among women voters. and yesterday in wisconsin, mitt romney was asked about losing female voters to the president. >> i wish ann were here, my wife were here, for a lot of reasons i wish she were here. but i wish she were here to answer that question in particular, because she says that she's going across the country and talking with women and what they are talking about is the debt we are leaving the next generation. and the failure of this economy to put people back to work. she says that she talks to women, and they are concerned about the jobs their kid sas ar going to get, and they wonder whether their future is going to be prosperous and bright as has been our lives. >> yeah. >> ok. besides women voters, mitt romney is also facing issues with the latino vote as well.

>> and that's on the front page of the "wall street journal" obviously. but, you know, it goes back to what we started saying a month ago, and i know a lot of conservatives, a lot of republicans, get frustrated when i say things like -- and i have said over the past year, sarah palin can't be elected president because of her negatives. herman cane isn't going to win. remember my column, crazy never wins, and i talk about how the republican party always does -- always does, always does what it's done again. and they go with somebody like romney. and a month ago, when -- no, i'm not going to make it about me, but i specifically told my party after the president retreated on his catholic order to take the win and move on and start talking about the economy. told them that. they didn't do it. the party has been obsessing on issues that offend women. and the reason why i told them

not to do that was specifically because i knew it was going to drive off female voters. so here we are a month later. and a lot of people on the right, even this weekend, still offended that i would suggest that the republican party tries to win elections instead of shooting themselves in the foot and feeling good about themselves and chasing issues that just don't matter. just like many on the right now have decided that they want to make george zimmerman their cause celeb. fine. do that if you don't want to win elections. because all of these things that i warn about, they have real implications. realtime implications. if you don't believe it, look at the swing state polls. look at the fact that mitt romney is getting killed in wisconsin right now in a head-to-head matchup against barack obama. he's losing in florida where barack obama has been in the low 40s for the past two years. there is no way republicans should be losing in the state of

florida to barack obama. why are they? they are because over the past month, they've been going down rabbit trails that are going to lead them to defeat. they continue to go down rabbit trails that are going to lead them to defeat. you know, they say these things for a reason. because if the republican party wants to win, they've got to play smart. but they haven't played smart, and they are paying for it. is it too late to turn things around? no. but you know what? you can't just say, gee, i wish my wife were here. and she'd tell you why women want to vote for me. no, no. >> i know. >> like i said a month ago, and i have repeated it time and time again, when my conservative pro-life wife, who's never voted for a democratic presidential candidate in her entire life, starts asking what's happened to the party, there's a problem.

and, again, mark halpern, when you have women against you, and you've got only about 13% of hispanics for you, you're going to lose. you better change the dynamic. >> mitt romney, you know, has been too apocalyptic about it from the point of the republicans. he can't have that many bad days. he has to have good days and drive the messages along the lines you describe. go back to talking about the economy and issues that men and women care about. and not be reliant on anybody else. he's got to do it. >> one more story before we go to break. there are new numbers out on the massachusetts senate race, which shows republican senator scott brown and his presumed democratic challenger elizabeth warren locked in a dead heat with seven months until election day. a new poll has brown getting 37% of the vote and warren 35%. 26% say they are still undecided. both candidates appear to be doing well among key voting

blocs. brown outpaces warren by 3-1 among self-described independents, and warren holds a 3-1 lead among those who identify themselves as conservative and moderate democrats, a group that helped brown get elected two years ago. >> and an announce will -- >> that's going to be an exciting race. >> and steve rattner will be throwing his first republican fundraiser. >> we need to have one for elizabeth warren. >> you're looking at the wrong guy. there's a limit. >> what are you saying? what do you mean? >> why do you say that? >> elizabeth warren is over the line. >> she's fantastic. >> elizabeth warren crossed the rubicon for steve rattner. >> and for scott brown. >> we'll take this outside, mika. >> i think she's going to be great. he is a good candidate too. >> massachusetts needs her. the country needs her. >> two great races. i'm telling you, two fantastic senate races this fall.

one in massachusetts and one in virginia. and both of those things are going to go down to the wire, aren't they? >> george allen and tim cain. and it's a huge presidential race as well. you'll see tons of politics. >> do you think george allen will keep it in the center of the road? george should have won that race last time. but he like mitt romney this year shot himself in the foot quite a few times. but you have a sense he's going to keep his head down and win that race? >> well, the cain campaign is saying, the future is now. that's a little reference. >> ok. >> it's going to be hard for george allen to win that. the polls are pretty even. but it's definitely a challenge for him to win votes in northern virginia. but it's an even race. and the massachusetts race has been pretty close as well. but nothing matters as much asa -- >> right here. this is all that matters. i think it's safe to say, willie geist, sarah palin coming to "the today show."

>> i love the move. >> it's great. >> is that a photo composite or an actual -- >> no, this is an actual shot. except let me tell you something, i -- >> awesome. >> sarah palin, she's tough. >> the kid stays in the picture. >> yeah, the kid stays in the picture. >> she's been a tv anchor before. >> has she really? >> yeah. >> famously a sportscaster. >> let me tell you something, that's going to be great. >> wow. >> what a week. >> how many people are going to tune in and watch that? >> get the telestrator on that, break it down. >> yeah. >> ok. >> is this like a prequel to game change two? does this bridge "game change"? like a "star wars" sequel that goes in between two and three? >> it's historically resonant. >> i love it. coming up, congressman jim clyburn will join us onset. also, round two of our health care debate with zeke emanuel.

and ron johnson. also, nbc news political director chuck todd joins us. up next, though, politico's mike allen explains why democrats should fear romney. ann romney, that is. but first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. i don't think we really fear him. >> no, no, we like bill this week. i think we feel good because i think he's going to give us a couple of good days this week. >> we deserve it after this weekend. this weekend was ugly. we have a lot of things going on this week. heading towards easter weekend, areas in the northeast haven't seen the sun since friday. you'll see it eventually today. we are starting off cloudy. the rain is ending. and it will slowly improve during the day today. a little breezy this afternoon too. temperatures only in the 50s. but at least with the sun out, it will feel a lot better than it did this weekend. sunshine in d.c. too. and we're talking about a nice lead up to easter weekend. d.c. is looking great. temperatures in the mid 60s. near 70 on wednesday. and i think that weather is going to hold. saturday and sunday, real nice

on the east coast. the rest of the country, stormy in the middle of the country. late this afternoon, thunderstorms. but look at the heat. mid 80s in kansas city today. west coast, not bad today either. and anybody wondering about the masters down there in augusta, georgia, there will be some thunderstorms down there thursday and friday. but this weekend looks good even there. so for everyone's interest towards easter weekend, we're in for a nice treat. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. all right, let's decide what to

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to ignore the conversation 24 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. the financial times, just years after emerging from two decades of house arrest, pro democracy leader is claiming victory this

morning. thousands gathered to support the landslide win. the vote is seen as another step toward freedom in the country after years of oppressive military rule. she is now seen as a likely contender for the country's presidency in 2015. skin cancer is rising dramatically. the rate is up fourfold for men. the use of indoor tanning beds is cited as one of the main reasons behind the trend. >> they should be banned. >> they are awful. >> really quickly, steve rattner, tell everybody what you did this past week. this is fascinating. >> i took my two 20 something-year-old boys on a tour of civil war battlefields. we did antietam, fredericksburg, and it's extraordinary. >> what was your take away? >> well, the biggest take away you have the -- when we talk

about the war in afghanistan, the war in iraq, you ain't seen nothing. the war between the states or the war of northern aggression, as you like to call it, boggles the mind. it was over 600,000 people killed. the equivalent of 3 million people killed today. >> wow. >> they had an army that was the equivalent of six or seven or eight million fighting this war. and as you said during the break, it was a war of slaughter and just mass slaughter where they would line up in rows, 60 or 100 yards apart, shoulder to shower, and fire almost point blank at each other. >> and you said you learned on the tour that robert e. lee was an extraordinary general, and we were commenting that it took lincoln so long to find a general who could beat lee because grant was the only one who was willing to just throw troops at him to be slaughtered. because lee would outmanoeuvre anyone who was put against them. >> had the union made a couple of mistakes, the war might have

ended differently. but lincoln realized also that the north simply had the numbers. they had the people, the factories, they had everything. so it was a war of attrition, where essentially the union goal was to kill as many confederates as possible at the risk of their own men because that would end the war. the confederates would run out of steam, and that's what would happen. >> when you were in nashville, did you ever come across these guys that every time you talked about robert e. lee they go, generally. >> oh, yeah. >> when you live in the south for 10 years as i did, you realize that the obsession of the south regarding the ignorance in the north, the south will rise again. what? >> southern by birth. >> the sheer numbers, the toll in iraq and afghanistan is horrible, but the number of deaths is just staggering in the civil war. >> all of those places have a

great sense of history. really well preserved. and when you're there, you can feel it. >> you can walk those battlefield sas and feel like y were there. they still have a lot of there. you can imagine being back there in the 1860s. >> it's a great thing to do with older kids. we tried to bring our little kids there. it didn't work very well. >> go up to gettysburg and you see picket's charge. and you look from up top down, and you just -- it's breathtaking. >> yeah. all right. let's go down to politico with mike allen. he has a look at the playbook, mike. >> he's breathtaking. >> he is breathtaking. >> we were just talking about this in our last segment. the female vote in this presidential election. and you guys have focused in on ann romney making a name for herself out on the trail. how important is she or could she be to this race? >> well, she's becoming more

important by the day. as you know, originally she was out because mitt romney was so much better when she was there. all the staff noticed it. tag romney, her oldest son, told us in an interview that she was known as the dad stabilizer because she calmed him down, and he was such a better candidate. but now because of the importance of the women vote, because she projects exactly the things mitt romney doesn't, which is sympathy, authenticity, family values, now the campaign has a dilemma. she is so great with him, but should she be keeping her own schedule during the general election? should she be traveling separately from her to double the firepower? so far, they have done a little of both, but that's one of the big questions they'll take up as they plot their general election plans. >> ann romney, as impressive as she is, can't by herself close this gap even in the state of wisconsin.

an nbc poll out last week showed in a head-to-head matchup, romney and president obama, among women voters, president obama up by 25 points. what can the romney campaign do about that number? >> right. it's very daunting as they start to look at going up against the obama machine. and they are starting to recognize what a weak competition they have been blessed with because through the primaries, as you guys know, you've been out, mitt romney has been the women's candidate. he's been doing so much better with women than any of the other republicans out there. now all of a sudden he is looking at this cliff. so she is an important part of it. also, they are looking for a big idea to focus the campaign around. and this big idea is going to be part of how they try and reach women, close this gap. >> all right. they have some work to do. mike allen with a look at the politico playbook. thanks. coming up, a brawl in the lig leagues.

a brawl in the ice. these are your role models, children. sports is next. plus, mitt romney walks out to do a campaign event in wisconsin and finds a completely empty hall. what's ahead here? that's ahead on "news you can't use." ♪ [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering.

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oh, god. what are you talking about now? >> this is sports. >> this is the feel-good story. >> that is too good. >> it is? >> we're going to open the baseball card pack we call sports here on "morning joe." it's going to be great. >> i'm calling for discovery. come on. >> i know about the final four. so i'll listen. >> you saw it then? >> i had a tutorial. >> top-seeded kentucky beat louisville. kansas beat ohio state by two points in another great game. should be a good game tonight in new orleans for the national championship. kentucky fans did get a little bit worked up about their win saturday night, rioting in the streets of lexington. they set fire to furniture, overturned cars, and this is after the semifinal. imagine what they might do tonight. >> are you serious? >> my friends from kentucky say this is mild. >> what? >> compared to tonight. two dozen arrests saturday night. lexington police say they are happy with the way things went

on their end. they kept it under control for the most part, and they will be ready for whatever happens after tonight's game. >> you know, we were talking about pornography earlier. you know what they call a pervert in kentucky? >> what's that? >> i'm not sure i want to know. >> somebody that likes sex more than basketball. there you go. that's two. my parents graduated from the university of kentucky. >> that's it. >> they're crazy, man, crazy about their basketball. >> the game tonight, 9:23 eastern. >> what? come on, man. i wanted to watch it. >> who's watching it? 9:23? >> i'm going to record it and wake up at 2:00 a.m. >> that's right. go big blue. >> kentucky, a six-point favorite. >> that kentucky-louisville game, man, crazy. >> louisville fought. they were much more talented than the other side, but louisville fought. the women's final, notre dame and uconn. irish down two in the final seconds. great game. skylar digins goes the length of the court. she misses. the putback sent the game to

overtime. where notre dame took control. a three by bree hartley. notre dame wins 76-72. they also beat uconn in the final four last year. baylor won last night as well, over stanford 59-47. on tuesday, when baylor plays notre dame by the national championship, a win by them would give them a record of 40-0. that would make them the seventh women's team ever to go undefeated, and the first in ncaa history to win 40 games. >> oh, my goodness. >> that's a great team with a great player, britney griner. >> how did they win 40 games? why do they have so many games? >> preseason tournaments, all kinds of games. three days until opening day. indies and rockies. former colorado ace to his former teammate, benches clear. benches clear.

tulowitzki will be back. after the game, rockies manager jim tracy said this of jiminez. it's the most gutless act in 35 years of professional baseball. i have lost all respect for him. to do something like that and walk down off the mound, if there's any discussion that got away from him, i don't want to hear any of that bull blank, he should be suspended. rockies and indians won't see each other again this year unless they play in the world series. >> will they suspend him? >> i think so, yeah. >> they have to. >> put him out for 10 games. flyers and penguins on the ice. >> this is ridiculous. >> in-state rivals. they don't like each other. one minute left. it's out of hand. so you might as well have a brawl. they lay out danny briere right there. planted by joe vitale. and it is on. a number of fights, too many to be counted. gloves drop. fists fly. everyone get into it except the goalies. even the coaches trying to get at each other. in the middle, that's pierre

mcguire, nbc, with the head set on. he is the ice reporter. kind of like he is watching a tennis match. the two coaches luckily could not get to each other. 52 total penalty minutes handed out. in case you're wondering, the flyers won the game 6-4. ladies and gentlemen, the national hockey league. . i didn't? why? i mean, just why? we'll be right back with mika's must-read opinion pages. keep it on "morning joe." ♪ he was a 21st century global nomad ♪

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>> what are all these various diseases that you say are linked to sugar? >> obesity. type ii diabetes. hypertension. and heart disease itself. and >> and most of it you say is preventible? >> 75% of it is preventible. >> nice song. 43 past the hour. that was dr. robert lovetag last night on "60 minutes" raising new alarms about the risk of added sugar. >> what, what, stop? >> he claims the number one reason for obese and diabetic reason. acco the average american consumes 156 pounds of sugar a year, something that could be linked to depression, dementia, and alzheimer's. it was a fascinating piece. >> if loving sugar is wrong, i don't want to be right.

>> ok. there's more evidence right here on the set. shall we move on to rattner's choice? >> yeah. >> because you didn't want me to dwell on this, and i won't, but everyone should check it out online because it's important. i'm not dwelling. >> charts. what have you got? >> health care law. teach us. >> last week we talked about the law. but there's a lot of economics behind the health care which i think if people understood, you would have a better sense of where the different groups are and why some people are for it and some people are against it. there are a lot of winners and losers in it. let's look first at where the revenues come from. there's $1.3 trillion of new revenue over the next 10 years or so. half of it comes from cutting medicare costs. now, nobody knows whether these costs can be cut. nobody knows what the implications of having them cut will be. obviously, it has become impact on seniors. but then when you move beyond that, the next big piece of this, which is 23%, comes from higher medicare taxes on the rich. that means you, joe.

higher medicare taxes for wealthy people. >> steve rattner, seriously? seriously? >> it's the pot calling the kettle black. >> you live in a glass theater, ok? >> beautiful. >> move on from that. >> moving on from that. you also have penalties on the so-called cadillac taxes on people. you have fees on manufacturers and insurers. so a lot of taxes and fees on wealthier people and on the companies that are involved in the health care business. >> so go back to the 50%, which is obviously the biggest chunk of this. sounds like that may be a made-up number. nobody really knows what that number will be. >> it's totally a made-up number. it's the assumption that you can lower the rate of medicaid or medicare. medicare as you well know has tens of trillions of dollars of unfunded liables already. saving money on medicare to fund a new health care program does not solve the problems of medicare. >> right. >> let's talk about the revenue side of the -- sorry, the cost

side of the picture. this is simpler. it's $1.1 trillion of cost. so there's actually projected to be a net budgetary positive. but essentially, all of this money is going to fund expansion of health care for the less privileged. part of it through the state medicaid expansion that you heard a bit about during the arguments last week and the other part through the so-called exchanges where people can buy insurance. but if you have below a $44,000 income, you will be subsidized in that purchase. so it's going to people making less than $44,000 a year. so whatever you think about this health care plan, and i personally think a lot of it is to be commended, it is a redistribution as planned. it is essentially taking money from the wealthier elements of the society and providing more benefits to the less well off. i think that's a good thing, but if you want to know why a lot of people hate this bill, that is a piece of why. >> so let's talk about those

numbers. let's put those costs back up. and can you just explain -- because you obviously were very involved in trying to save detroit. you dealt with scoring, omb scoring, cbo scoring, and you know how that works from your time not only in government service but also in the private sector and at "the new york times." talk about numbers like this. for instance, even figuring out the cost is a political battle. in the past, the congressional budget office scored individual mandates. so if i had to pay for insurance through an individual mandate, they would score those costs much the obama administration worked very hard to not have those costs scored this time. when you throw that in, obviously, if we were scoring it the way we scored bill clinton's health care plan, the costs would be much, much higher, right? >> well, a couple of things. i want to get to one more chart. in the previous chart, what i didn't say is part of the revenues to support this are

from the penalties, the $695 that people are going to have to pay, in order to -- if they don't get health care themselves. but scoring is an art. the cbo, however, i think is a very responsible, nonpartisan organization. people lobby it all the time. as you pointed out, the 50% of savings from medicare is something we have no idea how it's going to be achieved. but let's look at the individual mandate. i know dr. dean, who i have a lot of respect for, says the individual mandate is not critical to the success of the health care plan. he may be right. but according to the cbo, there say cost if the individual mandate is lost. you end up with 16 million more people uninsured. but healthy people come out of the pool, and it drives up the cost for everybody else. so there's a projected by the cbo 15% increase in private health care premiums, which causes employers to drop insurance, as it gets more expensive, and so four million people come off or who have

health care now come off the rolls. so that's 20 million people off the rolls if the individual mandate fails. >> but howard dean, though, would argue to you that that suggests that the individual mandate fails and nothing replaces it. howard dean would say there are many other ways to fund the uninsured other than the individual mandate. >> sure. you can go to congress and do a lot of things. but tell me the chances of congress passing anything constructive on in the foreseeable future. part of what howard dean was assuming is that the insurance companies would continue to bear the burden of insuring everybody even with pre-existing conditions and kids up to 26. but at some point, that kettle blows apart too. >> very good. steve rattner, thank you. we'll be right back with willie's "news you can't use." this at&t 4g network is fast.

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yesterday was april fool's day. >> yes, it was. >> mika, you had a good one i understand. >> we had a good one. >> will you share that one with us? >> i don't think so. >> but it all ended well. everybody is ok. >> wow. yeah. >> at least we think it was april fool's. >> it was. >> we hope so. well, mitt romney's campaign

staff pulled one on him as well. at an event yesterday morning in milwaukee, romney thought he was giving a speech to a room packed full of supporters. when he took the stage, he found a completely empty room. >> governor mitt romney, the next president of the united states! >> whoo! >> oh, you guys! >> april fool's! >> i was like, whoa, this really is a small crowd. oh, jeez. you guys are really bad. bad. >> paul ryan, ron johnson, everybody was in it. there's some cynical views out there who suggest that mitt romney knew that was happening

and it was meant to humanize him. not from where i'm sitting, but it's out there. >> of course he did. >> he was eventually led away to the real event close by with a room packed, of course, full of supporters. >> what a relief. anybody watch "mad men" last night? >> yes. >> don't tell me what happened. >> don draper gets drafted. >> right in the back of the head, taken down. >> that's a lie. >> brief clip we're going to show you where the name romney appears. >> what? >> hmm? >> do you want me to turn down the tv? >> it's fine. henry francis. well, tell jim his honor is not going to michigan because romney is a clown and i don't want him standing next to him. >> romney is a clown. that was henry francis, the director of public relations on the show. governor rockefeller taking a swipe at george romney, mitt's father, running for re-election in that year, summer of 1966.

>> "mad men" just lost conservative viewers everywhere. >> mark, you don't share that cynical view about the april fool's day, do you? >> nor do i think governor romney is a clown. >> i can only do one story at a time. >> do you think that mitt romney was being set up? >> i have no knowledge of that. >> yeah. >> he's not going to answer. that means yes. >> i have no knowledge of that. >> fair enough. >> i'm going to say, if somebody had done that in the middle of a competitive campaign with me, it would have been a long walk back to the car. >> not a little release? >> no. you release when you win. >> ok. coming up, sam stein will join us. also, former white house adviser on health policy zeke emanuel returns with senator ron johnson. >> willie, look how beautiful it is in the hood.

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i think that governor romney is a little out of touch. look, you know, everything that he said the american people don't think the policies have worked, romney argued about -- not an exact quote, but let

detroit go bankrupt. it wasn't very popular action the president took. now they are hiring people, you know, hundreds of thousands of new people, instead of losing 400,000 jobs. i can't remember a presidential candidate in the recent past who seems not to understand by what he says what ordinary middle class people are thinking about and are concerned about. >> all right. >> i don't get it. >> really, we gave him a whole hour. >> we gave him an hour to cut something from "meet the press." >> that's all right. >> what's wrong? no, no, no. >> it's all right. i think there's a conspiracy. >> put the camera on alex. i don't really understand this at all. i asked him -- i asked alex -- >> that is literally how he talks to us, all the time. >> do you have anything from "meet the press"? you can cut it. >> yeah, ok. >> do you know what he says to me? we don't usually cut roundtables.

>> ok. that's good to know. thank you. >> we're recreating it live here. >> right. >> ok. welcome back to "morning joe." >> that hurts. >> mark halpern is with us. and sam tine. >> thanks. i feel for alex right now. >> everyone should at all times. 24 hours a day. >> let's bring you in on it, sam stein. do you think mitt romney was in on his april fool's joke? i kind of think he did. he knew what was going on. come on. >> you really do think he was in on the joke? >> yeah, he was in on the joke. >> i don't know. that would sort of ruin all the purpose of it. i guess they are planning it and he wants to look authentic, but i'll take the campaign at its word on this one. >> look at him. he's not cynical yet. i give you a couple of years. red sox start this week, sam stein. that's good news. >> yes. i'm excited for the season. i was a little nervous about how

last season ended. i didn't really enjoy all the moves in the offseason. but now i'm in a place to be excited again. >> he's coming to fenway with us. >> he will be with us on the 20th for the 100th anniversary. >> i'm holding you to it. >> fenway park. >> great. ok. so let's get to politics, shall we? tomorrow, the gop candidates face off again with primaries in washington, d.c., maryland, and wisconsin. on "meet the press" yesterday, romney -- >> ok. so you think he'll show us on "meet the press"? >> oh, no, this is actually the part before we came on, where romney picked up the endorsement of wisconsin's first-term senator ron johnson, who will join us in just a few minutes. this morning, "usa today" and gallup are out with a new swing state poll that takes a look at a dozen general election battle ground states, including florida, pennsylvania, and ohio. the poll shows that president obama has pulled ahead of romney in these races by a total average of nine points. that's an 11-point swing from last month. the biggest reason behind this

shift looks to be the female vote. president obama now leads romney by 18 points among women voters. yesterday in wisconsin, mitt romney was asked about losing female voters. >> let's not play this. >> no, no, you've got to -- you get presented with information. about, you know, hey, what's with the loss here? so here is what mitt romney had to say. >> ok. >> i wish ann were here, my wife were here, for a lot of reasons i wish she were here. but i wish she were here to answer that question in particular, because she says that she's going across the country and talking with women, and what they are talking about is the debt that we're leaving the next generation. and the failure of this economy to put people back to work. she says that she talks to women, and they are concerned about the jobs their kids are going to get, and they wonder whether their future is going to be prosperous and bright as has been our lives. >> all right. despite women voters, mitt

romney is also facing really big issues with hispanic voters. obviously, the republican party primary process has driven off quite a few hispanic voters. mark halpern, right now, there is an 18-point gender gap according to this latest "usa today" gallup poll, and gallup usually trends a bit more conservative. i said for example the abc news-"washington post" poll tends to be more liberal. but if you have an 18-point gender gap in swing states, obviously, that is toxic for the republican party. what can romney win with? what kind of gender gap can he win with? >> obviously, if the republican -- opens up a lead with men, you can do worse with women. but you can't win with an 18-point gap like that. and what's dangerous for the republicans is you saw joe biden yesterday. jim memussina, the campaign

manager, they are being very aggressive about this. they are not coasting to the conventions and then -- >> are you talking about women's issues? >> well, on everything, but especially on women's issues and the authenticity issues with romney. joe biden was very aggressive about that. so part of the problem for the romney operation is they are up against a campaign that is well funded and running on all cylinders very aggressively. on hispanics, on women. you saw harry reid writing an op-ed piece about hispanics and marco rubio. so there's a disadvantage right now for the republicans on hispanics, on women, that democrats are doing their best to drive further and harder and republicans right now have initial notions of how to fight back on those two big voting groups. but they are not really enacting anything so far. >> you know, you also wonder -- actually, if the rick santorum contraception issue and all the social issues that he puts forward about women, that women

really respond to, even your wife and many others, in a really negative way, somehow is just being transferred totally over to the republican party. >> it's hurting the brand. and romney's failure to speak up against rush limbaugh -- >> he's not that bad. >> he has not done a sister soldier thing on any of those issues. he has been silent or embraced the santorum rhetoric at times when it's reinforced. and anecdotally, we all see it as we travel across the country. young people, hispanic voters, female voters, turned off by the republican party. >> very turned off. i hear it a lot. >> and this is why it's important for mitt romney and the romney team, sam stein, to break out of this republican pack and be one-on-one against barack obama. because, again, not to go back to that same dead horse that i'm beating, but when herman cain is leading the republican race, that impacts the republican brand. when rick perry is leading it, it impacts the brand.

people might say logically, and fairly, mitt romney should not be punished for some of the rabbit trails that rick santorum was running down a few weeks back, when rick had two pretty darn bad weeks. but it's the republican party. i mean, it's all part of that republican brand. and so the entire party is dragged down by perceptions. >> yeah. >> i'm sorry. go ahead, sam. >> i totally agree with you. and you got the sense when we were sort of mired in this contraception debate that mitt romney would have done anything to talk about something other than that. and you're right. everything that surrounded him, whether it was rick santorum or rush limbaugh, really pulled down his brand and it was not at all his fault. i think one of the more deft political moves the white house made actually was having the president call sandra fluke and say, listen, i'm sorry about your portrayal here. it portrayed him in a

sympathetic light and elevated rush limbaugh to the head of the party on the contraception issue, and that tarred mitt romney. >> a lot of the earlier ones that people put in the clown category do not help the party at all, and rick santorum is saying he not going anywhere. take a look. >> if governor romney gets that required number, then without a doubt, if he's at that number, we'll step aside. but right now, you know, he's not there. he's not even close to. like i said, less than half the delegates are accepted and we're going to fight the fight to make sure we can win. this isn't about winning. this isn't about a cause. this is about having the best candidate to take on barack obama. >> you know, i understand why newt gingrich is staying in the race, and if i were in newt's position i would stay in the race too. he is 68. the likelihood he'll be named secretary of defense or another major cabinet agency by mitt romney is very small.

but in rick santorum's case, he is a pretty young guy. he's won a dozen states, i guess. it seems to me the smart move for rick might be at some point getting out of the race and lining up behind mitt romney. but right now, he is saying he's going all the way to the end because he's got a future, i think. >> well, maybe, but i thought that was ugly yesterday on "meet the press." i thought savannah made him squirm. he didn't have a good answer what the hell he is still doing in the race with the math. but it's not obvious to me that getting romney out of the republican pack is going to dramatically improve his situation. yes, the conservative elements have dragged him to a different place. but you guys on "meet the press" showed yesterday the roll of clips of all of romney's moments. and this is not a candidate who really is great out on the campaign trail. >> but he is out there right now answering questions and exposed because he is still in hot primaries that he's got to win.

mitt romney must win wisconsin so he must be out campaigning every day. i remember back to 2008, barack obama was cloistered. i mean, they kept him away from the press in an unprecedented manner. he would give statements through websites, give statements through spokesperson. but am i not correct? >> uh-huh. >> he was less exposed to the press. and after hillary was out of the way, they completely shut him off. and so romney can control his message in a much tighter way, right, mark? >> i think the three things -- >> if he's not running against -- >> he needs to come across as authentic, as caring about working class people, and as not snake bit. and he can do those things better as you just suggested if he's not trying to beat rick santorum and make sure he doesn't lose any of the primaries. they are desperate to get this over with in april because in may, if santorum is still alive, he can rack up some wins. >> but, look, he has a 37% approval rating. i don't know that he can do this being cloistered.

doesn't he have to get throughout and try to show people -- >> well, he doesn't have to be in the kind of combat of winning these states. he's got to be in wisconsin for 72 hours, 96 hours, because he can't afford to lose there. >> my only point is that he is clearly an awkward candidate who has trouble connecting with people, trouble getting people to accept the fact that he's wealthy and that's ok, and that they can deal with that. and by the way, we haven't yet heard an economic agenda, i don't believe, from him that is going to be persuasive to people as to why they're going to be better off with him than they are with president obama. >> can i jump in here? i agree with steve to a certain extent. but in the republican primary, once he's out of the republican primary, he's not going to be forced to show that he is just as tough on contraception as rick santorum or just as tough on immigration reform as rick santorum or newt gingrich or -- newt is a bad example in that regard. so the conversation is going to be different. he'll always have the authenticity problem about, you he won't at least have to talk about some of the side issues

that tend to trip him up and cause the gaps we're seeing in this "usa today"/gallup poll. >> and he won't have to prove he is just as tough on russia and say some things that may -- he may not say in a general election campaign. >> he'll have his etch a sketch moment. yes. >> he may, but it's important to remember that it wasn't so long ago, maybe three months ago, that we were all talking about barnicle even was talking about how much better mitt romney had become as a candidate, that he was mopping the floor with all of these republicans in debates. that he was disciplined on the campaign trail. >> new hampshire. his speech in new hampshire was very good. >> his speech in new hampshire was a really good speech. i remember we were all watching and said, wow, he has improved so much over the past four years. listen, he's had a rough run. and i guess it's one of those, mark halpern, "to kill a

mockingbird" moments. perhaps we shouldn't judge these candidates quite so harshly unless we have walked a mile in their shoes. i can't imagine the fatigue, the mental fatigue, emotional fatigue, that mitt romney, rick santorum, newt gingrich, and their families doing this day in and day out and day in and day out for a year, maybe that's why romney is a little out of his league right now, a little exhausted. but, again, three months ago, we were all sitting around the table saying how much he had improved in the past four years. >> almost always when a candidate makes a mistake, their advisers will say they are tired that day. but at this point they are tired every day. and romney isn't going to have a big break if he wants to win a general election. he has to prove to people he is not a phony. he has to prove he cares about working class people. and he's got to prove he is not snake bit, that he is a candidate that can't win. that's really tough to do.

>> do you think he can do it? >> i think he can do two of those three. >> which two? >> which two? >> which two? >> which one can he not do? >> i think the toughest one right now is showing that he cares about working class people. i think that story he told the other day, the humorous story about his father closing a factory, i think he has laid down a lot of stuff. and democrats are going to be relentless on all of that stuff with more to come. they are sitting on a ton of stuff about those issues. more to come. >> i think if he has good people around him, he can do what george hw bush did in 1988, bush 41 who now most everybody reveres. you know, john meacham writing a book called "the last gentleman," and it's hard to find somebody in washington who doesn't love and respect this man. but i go back to '87 and '88, and he was trashed. the same things we were saying about romney people were saying

about george hw bush. and i remember watching the '88 convention and we all made fun of him because he couldn't talk, he couldn't speak in complete sentences publicly. privately, very elegant. but peggy wrote him that line, i think, something about that he is not a good talker, but i hear the quiet people. and he turned that around. romney is going to have quite a few months to turn around these perceptions that he's blinded from the plight of the working class american. and if he's got a good team around him, maybe he can do it. listen, nobody has been more critical of mitt romney than me. as a conservative republican, who would actually like to win an election, ok? i want to win an election. >> not this time. >> be nice to your party. >> but that said, i think he could turn this thing around. but he's going to have to do a lot better than he has the past couple of months. all right. sam stein, stay with us. up next, dr. zeke emanuel. >> i raised my voice because i knew we had another emanuel

brother coming. >> and that's how he responds. the only thing he responds to. and republican senator ron johnson standing by for the next round of their debate over health care. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> morning, mika. everyone complained with the weather this weekend in the northeast, but the middle of the country was turning their air conditioners on. the march record heat has continued into the beginning of april. it was mid 80s from florida all the way up there to south dakota. ridiculously warm. today, that continues a little bit. still very warm in the middle of the country. still a little cool in new england. we are going to see some thunderstorms in texas. forecast for the northeast, clouds are breaking up. the sun will return. a bit breezy and cool. d.c. southwards, carolinas through the southeast, gorgeous. afternoon thunderstorms in the middle of the country. not a bad day on the west coast. the only really dangerous weather we'll see, of course this is april, we could see a lot of tornadoes. a few tonight in areas of central texas. we'll watch that for you in dallas and ft. worth. you're watching "morning joe"

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we think the mandate and the law is constitutional. and we think the court will rule that way. and what this is really about is the republican alternative, which is what? they are going to continue no matter what the supreme court does to go after trying to eliminate or strangle this law. >> what would happen, though? i mean, if this whole thing was thrown out and you had to -- >> stop this. >> is he your uncle? seriously! not only, mika, are we on "meet the press" yesterday -- >> for the first time together. it was fun. >> very excited, hosting the roundtable. here we are, thank you, we finally cut something.

not only are we on there, and they keep showing schieffer, our next guest was the star of "meet the press" yesterday. >> yes, he was. >> small little segment. >> your endorsement was not tepid. >> no. i actually had the opportunity over the last couple of weeks of sitting down with mitt romney, having some extended phone conversations. >> so there isn't someone you like better that you might have, if, dot, dot, dot? >> we have the people in field to choose from. and i have no doubt that mitt romney fully understands the serious nature of the problem, and is willing to work toward ooze. >> >> look at that. it's not tepid. >> there was no rubio there. >> rubio, i don't know, if i had rubio's endorsement, i don't want to hear a guy saying, between having a sharp stick in my eyedorsing scarborough, i'll take scarborough. the provost at the university of pennsylvania --

>> it keeps going. >> and the chair of the department of medical ethics at pennsylvania's pearlman school of medicine. yes, children, dr. zeke emanuel is in the house. >> if they don't pay you, they give you titles. >> and ron johnson. steve rattner showed us some charts earlier in the hour. and the third chart talks about, ron, the number of people that are going to be off of health care insurance if the supreme court overturns this case. what is the exact number, steve? >> according to the cbo, if they overturn the individual mandate, 16 million people become uninsured. it raises premiums for the rest of the insured population by 15%, which then causes employers to kick another 4 million people off of insurance. so 20 million people become uninsured. that's the cbo's numbers. >> is that a good or bad thing? >> obviously, we want to make sure people get health care.

the problem is, do you want government control over the system or do you want the private sector bringing the free market back into this? and that's been the problem. if you want to take a look at the problem with health care is we separate the consumer of the product to the payment of the product. we have taken the free market out of health care and put the government in control. and the reason obama care is not particularly popular is the american people don't trust government to run it. >> hold on. >> we're going to get a blood pressure cuff for you. >> these comments are not good for my health. i will say that, because my blood pressure goes up. first of all, let's be clear. the individual mandate is to get people into a private market to purchase insurance through private plans to go to private doctors and private hospitals. it was decidedly market based. that's the first point. the second point is, the american public loves to have people be able, no matter what their pre-existing condition, to

go in and be able to get insurance. they like to have a situation where premiums are down. you cannot have both those things without a mandate and getting everyone in. >> premiums are not down, though. >> senator johnson -- >> they are going to go down? is that the -- >> you made this point before. let's look at massachusetts, which does have an individual mandate. has a market. just the way the president's affordable care act put into place. what has happened to premiums in the individual market there? they have gone down 40% compared to a 14% increase in the rest of the country. >> massachusetts already had a very high level of people insured, as does wisconsin. wisconsin did not need health care law to get 95% of the people insured. >> you do not have 95% -- you have 89% -- >> this is going to be a private plan. why? when obama care finally kicks in -- >> every time you use statistics -- >> one at a time. >> every time you use statistics, they are a little off. >> no, they are not. >> you don't have 95%. only in massachusetts has over

95%. >> in wisconsin we have 95%. >> that's because they have a mandate. >> how can you say it's private health care when you really take a look at the true cost of obama care, when it really kicks in in 2016, it will be $2.4 trillion over that decade, and here is the chart. here is the real thing here. steve, you were talking about the revenue. >> do i get one? >> i think i have another one here, absolutely. >> thank you. >> now i'm out of it. >> all right. >> but here is the deficit risk. because this thing is supposedly going to be paid for by taxes, fees, penalties, and then cuts to medicare, which you were talking about. where are those going to be achieved? if you just project the taxes, fees, and penalties at about $816 billion in that 10-year window, 2016 to 20-25, that's a deficit risk of $1.6 trillion when obama care really kicks in. it was an utter fiction that

this would reduce the deficit. >> look, i think that is a legitimate point. two respects. zeke, i'd love your thoughts about it. one, it's not clear to me how the savings get achieved. and secondly, if they do get achieved, it didn't help medicare. medicare is this huge unfunded liability which we need to address. and effectively taking medicare savings to pay for the obama care stuff is a little bit robbing peter to pay paul i think. >> let's make a few points. the first point is the cbo said very clearly in the first decade health care reform reduces the federal budget by -- >> what about the spending? >> it reduces the deficit by $100 billion. and in the second period, it reduces it, i forget, by a trillion or something. but the cbo actually says we're going to reduce the deficit. second, we do make cuts to medicare and we do it in a very good way that both improves quality and reduces cost. first, we reduce hospital acquired infections and other areas that cost a lot of money.

second, we reduce the preventible readmission substantially. third, we create new ways of delivery care to deliver higher quality at lower cost. and we have a lot of experiments around the country that show that. right in your home state, marsh field has shown how you can actually reduce costs and increase the quality by coordinating doctors. >> but why shouldn't those savings be used to reduce the medicare unfunded problem rather than pay for a whole other set of problems? >> great question, and let's talk about what in fact we did. when we actually looked at the trust fund, the unfunded part, we actually went from an explosion -- or stopping to be fully funded in 2016 with the health care reform it stops to be fully funded in 2024. we added eight years to the medicare trust fund. and i think we're going to add more. one of the things the cbo scores -- >> those are based on assumptions that as steve rattner said are wild guesses. >> they are not wild guesses.

>> they are wild guesses. >> they are reasonable guesses. and how has cbo scored previous medicare bills in terms of cuts? it's always underestimated the amount of -- >> as we said in the past also, individual mandates in the past have been scored as costs. this time, the obama administration got a waiver. democrats got a waiver. so you don't even have that cost put in there. but i want to go back to something that zeke said, senator. it seems to me it's one of your great challenges with independence. and some of the courtesy offico don't like this, as long as the cbo can say they scored this, and actually obama care lowers the federal deficit in the long run, that seems to me to be a hard argument to beat if you're a small government conservative. >> it's a fiction. they game the cbo numbers. the cbo is forced to score what the administration and congress gives them to score. just take a look at history, though. i'm beginning to actually look

at the reality of real numbers. back when they first started medicare, they projected out 25 years and said it would cost $12 million in 1990. it cost $110 billion. and you're talking about these studies conducted within medicare. cbo just conducted a study of 34 programs to cut costs -- >> i understand this argument, but -- >> it didn't cut any costs whatsoever. >> this isn't going to help you on the campaign trail. specifically, how did cbo game the numbers for the president's health care plan? >> just projecting these phantom savings in medicare. let's face it. we have not implemented the $208 billion worth of sgr cuts yet, ok? why does anybody think that congress is going to actually implement the $529 billion worth of the first 10-year cuts, much less the $1.6 trillion that would be required to be cutting medicare in the time frame of 2016, 2025, when the real bill really comes due? where are we going to get $1.6 trillion worth of cuts? >> steve rattner, i want to put

up your first chart that talks about revenue and look at this 50%, because that 50% of savings is what we are debating right now. the 50% on medicare savings that you said before were based on quite a few assumptions that may not actually take place. >> it's based on simply an assumption that you can bend the cost curve, take a rate of growth of medicare increases and suddenly have it become lower. zeke can go through i'm sure line-by-line how this would happen, but i think you'd have to agree this is not proven fact. this is a set of assumptions. >> absolutely. >> whatever you want to call it. >> you remember because you were a "new york times" reporter at the time. you remember what david stockman called these. >> the magic asterisk. >> rosy scenario. >> first of all, they are not rosy scenarios. l in the last three major reforms to medicare, cbo has always underscored how much we have actually saved.

and the medicare modernization act, for example, they grossly underscored how much we were going to save. the cbo is very cautious for institutional reasons. when you don't like their message, you don't just attack the messenger. you don't give us alternative numbers. >> i just gave you a graph. >> let me just say when you look at the savings, it seems to me in fact they are conservative. when i go out there you have a lot of activity we have never had. >> when do you go out there? >> all the time. >> the cbo provides no detail in terms of how to save money in the second decade. >> one another important area i would love to hear your thoughts about. a lot of the savings come from simply paying the providers less. and at some point do the providers say, i'm not going to provide these services? i'm going to go into private practices? >> it's already happened in medicaid. >> it is happening in medicaid. >> steve, i think that's a very

good question and a very useful question. i don't think actually that's the -- our chief problem here. but just let's talk about two of those cuts. we know that over the last decade, we have actually been paying the medicare advantage plans at least 14% too much given the population that they have enrolled. so $165 billion of those savings directly out of the medicare advantage plans. and then there are other things. as lab tests have gotten automated and you don't have a person looking in the microscope and counting the number of red cells and things and a machine does it, we've actually never had a decrease in productivity. >> final word to the senator. >> joe, the american people realize that you can't cover 25 million more people without adding a dime to the deficit. the number of broken promises that president obama made in had health care law are legion. and that's the problem. american people simply don't believe -- >> one simple question. >> the government can't do this. >> senator, what's your alternative? we had two years of debate and

never had a credible republican alternative. >> how about when president obama promises to make tort reform a priority? one of those broken promises. that was fantastic. >> thank you for being here. >> we're going to take them on the road. >> and by the way, the next time you go out in the hustys, will you bring me along? >> absolutely. >> see what you do. >> i go to medical centers all the time. i'm going to new jersey medical center next week. >> am i invited? >> that's my plan. i'm going to visit chicago and my brother. >> oh, there you go. >> oh, god. that's just -- i've got to see you both together. >> tomorrow night, rom and i are getting together. >> i want to see all of you together. what are you guys, in your late 40s? >> early 50s. sorry. >> four 50-year-old 5-year-olds. >> he just had his birthday. >> he is the youngest? >> yes. >> did you beat him up a good deal? >> ari? who could beat ari up?

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welcome back to "morning joe." 39 past the hour. pretty shot of washington, d.c., this morning. and joining us now here in new york, assistant democratic leader, south carolina congressman jim clyburn. good to have you back on the show. >> thank you so much for having us. >> sam stein. >> we heard a few audible grunts during the zeke debate, but he couldn't get a word in. sam, first question to you. >> yeah. let me apologize for the audible grunts. and then congressman, to pivot off of that last conversation, because it was very -- you know, a live one, let's say theoretically that the supreme court does take out the rule on constitutional health care law and says that the whole thing has to be made invalid. as a politician, and someone who is involved in crafting the bill, what do you do next in terms of legislative counterproposals and also politically? how do you pivot off of something that would be such an obvious defeat? it was the signature policy of

the administration has now been totally void by the supreme court. >> well, when i learned in as a child, i practice in politics if at first you don't succeed, try and try again. if this were to be declared unconstitutional, i think that the congress and the president will take a look at what the decision says and see whether or not things can be done to fix it. and i would hope that that would be our approach. rather than sit around and agonize over it, we ought to consider exactly where we are as a country, where we should be in having everybody insured, and see whether or not the supreme court gives us a road map as to how to get there. >> just a quick follow-up, though. there's been talk about, you know, sort of going after the court as an activist court, as a conservative activist court. is that something that is entertainable, or is the court off limits in terms of politics? >> well, in terms of the congress, i believe that it would be off base for us to do that.

but for the president, i don't think it is. i think the president ought to take a look at what went on years before. we have seen presidents run against congress and we have seen presidents run against the supreme court. franklin roosevelt did it to the supreme court. truman to the congress. i think that the president would take a look at exactly what he needs to do to connect with the american people. let them know he has done everything that he can possibly do. and ask them to give him a mandate for the years going forward. >> your friend the president says to you, jim, things are looking good for my re-election. what are three things i need to be worried about and concerned about to make sure i win? >> i'm not sure he has control of all of those things, but he has to be concerned about the economy overall, whether or not it begins to stall and start a downward spiral. has to be concerned about gas

prices, and the so-called enthusiasm gap. those three things are very important. i do believe, however there, is no real enthusiasm gap. what has to be done is we have to connect with our base and make sure that we get them out. >> steve rattner. >> congressman, one thing you didn't put on your list of three things is health care. every poll seems to suggest that the american people do not love obama care. regardless of what the supreme court does, how does he run on health care? how does he deal with the health care problem? >> i think we has to deal with what he has done. the fact of the matter is, obama care tiakes on the connotation that some people seem to not be all enamored with. but we are not talkiwhen you st about getting rid of lifetime caps on benefits, pre-existing conditions, these things -- or kicking people off the insurance policies, keeping your children on until their 27th birthday, all these things people love. and i think the president would

have to go out and say to the people, this is what we have done. me talking about civil rights, you know, in this country, i often hear people say, you know, the civil rights act did this and did one. which one? it did one thing in '64. did voting in '65. housing in '6. the public sector in '72. the so-called civil rights act are four distinct acts done over eight years. that's what i think we're going to have to do with health care. so the president will go out and say, this is what we have done. we tried to go further. we couldn't go any further. we'll take that step the next time. put me back in office, and we'll come back and do the second step. >> jim, you talk about the civil rights, front page of "the new york times," talking about the trayvon martin case. you know, so many people, i believe, out there have seized onto this case. and we have seen bad behavior on both sides. and there's no need to mention the bad actors, some who have

apologized for their bad behavior on both the left and the right. but for me this isn't about george zimmerman. >> no. >> he deserves die process. -- due process. and let the courts, and i'm sure you agree with me, let the courts figure it out. for me, this is about a sanford police operation that held a dead teenaged boy for three days without even notifying the parents when they had the cell phone, who acted in questionable ways up and down the line. it's not the individual, zimmerman. he will be judged by his own peers. it's that a police department would do this to a young african-american male. talk about your biggest concerns in this case. >> well, joe, i think it's even broader than that. i think it's a culture there. remember that the police department for some strange reason brought the prosecutor into this on that evening.

and i am told, or i read, that the prosecutor ordered the lead investigator not to file charges. so it went beyond the police department. there's a culture of the justice system there in sanford that seems to be running amuck. and so i think that we need to have a broader discussion of this. and that's why i feel very strongly that we have to get beyond this affinity that we have for discussing race. we need to have an open discussion of race in this country. >> how can this not be about race? some people say it's not about race. how can it not be about race, when everybody listening here knows that if an older african-american male had shot a 17-year-old white boy, the african-american male would be in jail, and the 17-year-old

white boy's parents would have been called? we work really hard not to make presumptions, not to make generalities. but if you have lived in this country more than 20 years, and you don't know that to be the case, then you're either willfully ignorant or you're a fool. >> that's true. and i have almost 72 years in this country, so i know that that is a real problem for us. look, i would never forget a lady -- i talk about her often, rowena tobias, who lived in charleston. she said to me one time, charleston used to lead the economy in this country but we lost our way because we would talk about every problem we had in charleston except the problem of race. she says until we can have an open discussion of that problem, we will never get it behind us. and so i think that for some strange reason, we seem not to want to go there. we aren't going to solve the problems of health care without

talking about them. we aren't going to solve the problem about the economy without having open discussions about them. so why would we think we would solve the problem of race by hiding it, pushing it under the rug? there must be an open discussion of this, and people need to be able to vet and get this behind themselves. so i always testify to roweena tobias for calling me into her parlour one day and said promise me as you go forward politically not to stop talking. >> congressman jim clyburn, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> nobody ever told me not to stop talking. it was usually just the opposite. stop talking, joe. >> and he does quite well. >> that's true. sam stein, thank you as well. >> thank you, sam. >> thanks, guys. we'll be right back.

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>> today is world autism awareness day and we are here to talk about alarming trends.

bob and suzanne. bob is a vice chairman of general electric and former ceo of nbc universal. let's talk about -- >> this is "meet the press," isn't it? >> that was yesterday. if it's monday, it must be new york. the numbers keep going up, bob as far as autism. it touched your family and my family and yet alarming trends and coverage for autism may drop. >> the numbers are incredible right now. you don't see any psychiatrist screaming and yelling and you see me screaming and yelling and it's hard to understand. it's hard to understand and the reason is it's mental health. it's a step child of all of our health system. >> why is that? >> it goes back to the problems with psychiatry. it is not considered the same as regular medicine. it goes a long way back. we know more about the knee cap

than the brain. we can fix your heel and nose and the brain is your largest organ and it's out of the picture. >> again autism rates have been skyrocketing. >> what's behind that? >> i wish we knew. that's why we formed autism speaks. i'm going after all of the young people. we have the world daylighting up around the world. clemgs and universities. they are the next generation that will be faced with this problem. >> young people get it and older people don't. that's a real issue. >> i think it will reflect more of the career numbers. it's one in 38. we replicate that number here in the united states. those numbers are more accurate. >> there a lot of people who are coming upon the disease, one in 88 children. this touches a lot of people's lives to how you handled having an autistic child and what's

it's done to your family. >> we got into it because there was no insurance for these people. they run bills between 25 to $60,000 a year and they lose income because one of the parents has to stop working to stay with the child and incur all these expenses. there is no other condition as serious as this is or anything near as serious. if you go to a hospital with a pediatric, that stay in the hospital is $47,000 a day. an average stay is $16,000. you don't have to pay anything for that. we have this is so much more prevalent than anything, but because approximate it has the mental health history, it's like alzheimer's and that would be another good continue. before it was several other brain injuries. we have to push through.

young people under 30 know more about this than most others. they will be ripped if they have to get a bill for 25 or 30 or $40,000 when older people are taken care of. >> mental health in children are -- it's taken a long time for them to be considered legitimate and serious. you see that in bipolar disorder numbers and other different disorders. with this, isn't it diagnosed much earlier and considered a serious medical condition? >> you don't get autism at 25. you be fully diagnosed at age 3 at the latest. you can diagnose at age 1. it is not easy, but if you get it and actively speech occupational therapies and look for medical problems, many children have medical problems, if you get into it right away and you are active, when i say get into it, it's 25 to $30,000

a year out of pocket after tax, if you get into it by kindergarten, you have a 50% chance that child will ma trick ult at our year level or get shunted off to special education or be institutionalized. we can save a lot of money by getting this done early. pay me now or pay me later. >> we want you to stay, but you have a busy day. you have to go right now. >> we are ringing the bell and his child also has autism and he invites me to ring the bell and i'm bringing my grandson. tommy hilfiger's family member is affected and tonight 30 rock up niagara falls, kingdom to youer, 3,000 buildings around the world that will join us.

autism speaks. >> one more thing. congress needs to help us. we have 30 governors to sign bills and another ten waiting. the congress has to act on corporations that are self-insured. the big corporations are governed by congress and that's the general electric and general motors. you can be next door and somebody who works for a company is covered. electric not covered. >> thank you very much. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] lately, there's been a seismic shift in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600.

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. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." with us on set, we have mark halprin and steve rattner. >> i want to go on to news, but yesterday there were two fascinating articles that talk about where we are in society. it was fascinating about women. frank bruiny, the father of two older boys and younger children, he was talking about girls and specifically about how things have changed for our children. did you read that well? this is something i have been

saying. we are going to turn into stark raving mad sex addicts. the concern is that it desensitizes them and has a negative impact. that's what he went into it has desensitized a lot of males and it is young women who are paying the price for that in relationships. >> i agree and we have an interesting conversation that you won't disclose at the dinner table on this topic with my two daughters. it's potentially the changes we see in our society and all the information that is available out there and images out there is dehumanizing for young women

and we will find ourselves and young men going back to more conservative social worries. >> it actually can create that response. >> learn the hard way though. >> you have a young girl and a young boy and for anybody out there, i have been through this ark. i have two boys in their 20s and two younger kids too. if you were at home and taking a 6-year-old or 7-year-old to school right now, if that child has access to an i touch, iphone, a computer, then chances are good given a couple of months to browse around without your supervision, they will find pornography. yes, 6-year-old kids are not hunting for it, but they go to school with 6-year-old children who have older brothers and sisters who show them that and it starts with the site and

expands out. this is pervasive. if your children are 6 or 7. >> my kids are a little bit older and we watched this ark in a different way. when my kids were young, there was almost no internet. it wasn't an issue. then people have and you put it in the kitchen or a place you can watch it. now on any device, anywhere they go, they can see anything they want regardless of their age. they may go looking for it, but it's in their face. almost no way to avoid it. >> it is in their face. we will wait until they talk about this. we were preinternet and prepornography. i don't want to get too much into details, but we stumbled on when we were 13 or 14. most kids say some dad kept a

playboy around and you see a picture and it is by today's standards basically what would be in a lingerie catalog. it was very general, but it was the greatest thing ever. but it didn't twist you and distort you. that's when you are 13 or 14. today 6-year-old boys and girls are seeing the most graphic, grotesque, violent images out there. parents, i'm warning you. it is in your kids's in if they have access to a browser. >> i won't disclose whose dad it was and it was not mine, but we were 8 or 9 years old and madonna was on the cover of playboy and we found it and opened it and could not believe our eyes. what? you're right. the things we have access to and

the things you can see, frank mentioned in this piece and this gq piece that a woman wrote saying the expectations in a relationship from guys based on what they watched on line and seen in terms of a sexual relationship are absurd and gross and things that don't lend themselves to a normal relationship with a woman. i'm not saying that's every relationship, but when you see the things all have seen. >> try to explain to a child that a relationship like that is something you want to wait for marriage for. talk to teens today. it's almost an impossible concept and that's sad. >> a kid who is 22 or 23 who is getting into a serious relationship and may get married, if it's a boy turning 22 or 23 or 24, chances are good he has been exposed to hard corn

pornography for over a decade by the time they reach this stage. it is a serious issue. >> i have a kid in that age group and i think they and their friends lead quite normal lives in terms of relationships with women and a lot of good stuff has happened over the years and the relationship between men and women and what is allowed and not allowed with sexual aggressiveness and things like that. a lot of the relationships i see are quite commendable. >> to follow-up on what they said, i suspected there would be and there is a cone servative backlash against this. from our children who instead of going too far out there are actually repelled by it. it reminds me of monty python's the meaning of life. he was trying to make the point

that school teachers can make anything boring. these 10 or 11-year-old enjoys in the class and i think they were showing down what sex was like. all the kids were falling asleep. he was like children! children! look up here! having it in their face all the time. that pushes them away from it. frank will be here tomorrow. >> we will have more of that tomorrow. >> on your show before. >> i got her at once. >> one time and that was it. your charts on pornography as well? let's do politics. tomorrow the gop candidates will face off in washington, d.c., maryland and wisconsin. mitt romney picked up the endorsement of ron johnson. usa and gallup are out with a swing state poll that takes a look at battle ground states

like florida, pennsylvania and ohio. it shows that president obama has pulled ahead of romney in these races by a total average of nine points, an 11-point swing from last month. the biggest reason behind the shift looks to be the female vote. president obama now leads romney by 18 points among women voters and yesterday in wisconsin, mitt romney was asked about losing female voters to the president. >> i wish ann were here for a lot of reasons, but i wish she were here to answer that question in particular. she said she is going across the country talking with women and what they are talking about is the debt that we are leaving the next generation and the failure of this economy to put people back to work. she talks to women concerned about the jobs their kids will get and they wonder whether their future will be prosperous and bright as has been or lives. >> yeah. besides women voters, mitt

romney is facing issues with the latino vote as well. >> they have that on the front page of the "wall street journal" obviously. it goes back to what we started saying a month ago. a lot of conservatives and republicans get frustrated and say things like sarah palin can't be elected president and herman cain is not going to win and newt is not going to win. crazy never wins. talk about how the republican party always does, always does, always does what it's done again and go with somebody like romney. and a month ago when -- i'm not going to make it about me, but i told my party after the president retreated on his catholic order to take the win and move on and start talking about the economy. told them that. they didn't do it.

the party has been obsessing on issues that offend women. the reason why i told them not to do that was because i knew it was going to drive off female voters. here we are a month later and a lot of people on the right, even this weekend still offended that i would suggest that they try to win elections instead of shooting themselves in the foot and feeling good about themselves and chasing issues that don't matter like many on the right have decided they want to make george zimmerman their celeb. do that if you don't want to win elections. all of these things that i warn about, they have real implications. realtime implications. if you don't believe it, look at the swing state polls. look at the fact that mitt romney is getting killed in wisconsin in a head to head matchup against barack obama. he's losing in florida florida

with barack obama has been in the low 40s for the past two years. there is no way republicans should be losing in the state of florida to barack obama. why are they? they are because over the past month they have been going down rabbit trails that lead them to defeat. they continue to go down rabbit treels that lead them to defeat. i say these things for a reason. if the republican party wants to win, they have to play smart. but they haven't played smart and they are paying for it. is it too late to turn it around? no. you know what, you can't just say gee, i wish my wife were here and she would tell you why women want to vote for me. no. like i said a month ago and i repeated it time and time again, when my conservative pro life wife who never voted for a democratic presidential candidate in her life starts asking what's happened to the party, there is a problem.

again, mark halprin this may be temporary. a month ago you can look at polls where barack obama was not doing well. you get women against you and you get only about 13% of hispanics for you, you are going to lose. you better change the dynamic. >> mitt romney is going to be too apocalyptic about it. you can't have that many bad days. you are going have to drive the right message and talk about the economy and issues that men and women care about and not be reliant on anybody else. he has to do it. >> one more story before we go to break. new numbers out that show republican senator scott brown and presumed democratic challenger elizabeth warren locked in a dead heat with seven months until election day. brown is getting 37% of the vote and warren 35%. 26% say they are undecided.

both appear to be doing well among key voting blocks. brown outpaces warren by 3 to 1 among self-described independents and warren holds a lead among those who say they are conservative and moderate democrats that helped her get elected. that's an exciting race. >> i great race and forth coming when steve rattner will be throwing the first fund-raiser. we need to call scott brown. >> have one for elizabeth warren. >> you are looking at the wrong guy. there is a limit. >> what are you saying? >> warren is over the line. >> she said tell him. >> crossing for steve rattner. >> you will not cross for scott brown. phone home. >> we will take this outside. take it outside. >> i think she will be great. he's good too.

massachusetts needs her. the country needs her. >> two great races. two fantastic senate races this fall. one in massachusetts and one in virginia. both are going to go down to the wire. >> george allen and tim cain. maybe the most important race in the contest. you will see tons of politics. >> do you think george allen keep it in the center of the road? he should have won that race, but he like mitt romney this year shot himself in the foot quite a few times and you got a sense he will keep his head down and win the race. >> we are saying the future is now. >> okay. >> a reference. >> it's going to be hard for george allen to win that. the polls are pretty even, but it's definitely a challenge for him to win votes. it's an even race and massachusetts has been close as well. >> up next, nbc's chuck todd

joins the conversation and battle ground florida. we will bring in columnist carl hiassen to discuss. first, bill has a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you. after a miserable weekend, things are improving. a decent start to the first april monday. the biggest storm out there is not hitting up in canada. a huge storm and the big swirl underneath the word storm that affects british columbia. that's about it. otherwise it's a decent forecast and temperatures will be slow to warm up. the southeast feels like summer. in the middle, watch out for strong storms from dallas to ft. worth. those will be hit and miss. you went from record heat back to the 40s. you are used to it in denver. you get the wild swings. a sneak peek and more of the same.

thunderstorms in the middle of the country while the east stays dry and warming up in new york city back into the 60s for the first time in a while. looking nice at the monument. sunshine and 62 in the nation's capital. a beautiful week ahead. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. coffee doesn't have vitamins... unless you want it to.

. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. i get my cancer medications through the mail.

now washington, they're looking at shutting down post offices coast to coast. closing plants is not the answer. they want to cut 100,000 jobs. it's gonna cost us more, and the service is gonna be less. we could lose clientele because of increased mailing times. the ripple effect is going to be devastating. congress created the problem. and if our legislators get on the ball, they can make the right decisions.

>> it's like an old elvis movie. a clean cut kid comes to the

city ready to play football and the only passes i made were on the field. thank you, elvis. the guy who has been in town three days. look at tim tebow. for heaven's sakes. >> welcome back to "morning joe" at 24 past the hour. the host of the daily run down chuck todd. good morning. >> par spend a week, we should see the tattoos you guys have. >> unbelievable. >> that's why i'm so afraid of going in there. >> that's why you hate new york. >> you don't have one? all right. let's look ahead to wisconsin. >> the great sprinkle of 2012. kind of rough up here. you already? >> we are okay. we will have the three-hour special. >> the mayor got it done. >> let's talk about wisconsin. >> if rick santorum loses badly,

he said he will keep going on and on. >> it's interesting how he is moving for himself. i have to win my home state. there is no way of stopping romney to get 1144, the magic number if santorum loses wisconsin. to me it's over. you have that feel that now the establishment and the apparat apparatuses feel, the koch brothers went up and in january and then they pulled back. that started friday and the super pac responded. the general election is already kind of getting engaged this weekend. you are seeing that happen and the only time romney is spending so much time in wisconsin is it's a general election play. >> april is not going to be a

good month on the santorum side, but if he can win pennsylvania near the end of the month, may shapes up better as the race swings back towards the south. can he last into may? >> may was a great month for hillary clinton. she won a ton of states in may. the problem is, april will be cruel. to me not winning wisconsin. say he does win, he is probably only going to split the delegates. they do it in a more convoluted way. you don't know who they are for. you have to know and there is little campaigns that have been going on. we have been doing our own research and it's clear that santorum and romney split will delegates in half. that's in the good for santorum. you know that romney, they have

been effective at getting the right office holder to be on the ballot. the bottom line is he may win pennsylvania, but only in popular vote. he will lose the delegates in pennsylvania. >> i will let mark talk to him, but romney has a problem that seems to be growing in the data that is coming in with female vote. any word from the romney campaign as to what they are doing to deal with that? beyond mitt romney talking about his wife. >> the answer to almost every voter is talk more about the economy. if they talk about the economy, they will come back. you talk about the general election starting. they expect massive television advertising against the president. that hasn't started yet. does romney have enough of a hold with haley barber that can start doing that advertising? >> we see the 1 that is up. i forget the name of the group, american energy something or

other. they have innocuous names, but they started in six swing states including colorado and michigan. they threw that state in there. there was a lot of republican strategists trying to get more mid-western states and they have to expand the map because of this problem that republicans will have out west. i do think that that's what you will start seeing. it's funny that you bring this up. the obama campaign is concerned because unlike four years ago, they decided what was a swing state and what wasn't. they got to decide the playing field. it may get decided for them and they may not be able to experiment in some states. they may have to make decisions based on having to respond to advertising and make decisions that they didn't have to do. they had the luxury of so much money and a republican apparatus that wasn't as viable. that's not the case this time. >> looking ahead down the road

to the white house where they have a weakness fair or not, there was another message they plan to focus on. that will get vote on on the 16th. the president has four or five events scheduled that will be focused on that and on the issue of people paying their fair share. they believe in a sense this is a real counter to not only the ryan plan, but to mitt romney himself. >> they also -- there is a little bit that was on the fairness issue and they are concerned when the tax hits start coming. we have to talk about taxes, but when the full campaign gets engaged against the democrats saying hey, you vote for the president and the democrats and your taxes are going to go up, they know that that is coming. you haven't seen that come out of the republicans yet. when that comes, i think they are trying to lay the ground work for the fairness argument.

that's what the president started with the speech in december late last year. that was the blueprint for the reelect. that was the whole thing. he's doing something that a democratic presidential candidate has not done. not a sitting president since truman. you reelect me, taxes are going up on some people. it's the wealthier folks. that's normally something that the democrats have ducked in that fight. they are not because the fact is the bush tax cuts are on the ballot in november. >> thank you very much. are you excited about the dodgers? we haven't talked about that. >> i am. this is great. we got a real executive. he built that. look at this nationals team this year. that's going to make the playoffs built by stan kaston. now he will take his wares with

money out to l.a. the league is over. national league baseball is back. >> that's exciting. very exciting that with magic and stan kaston, he did great things. it will be different for stan in l.a. than atlanta. the past couple of years with the dodgers having gang night where they were allowed to be in the right and left field bleachers. you think they will do away with that? >> you would think. you think that's a good idea. you think that's not good marketing when you are up against the suburb's favorite team, the anaheim angels. >> i'm excited for the dodgers. >> on "the daily rundown." thank you very much. we'll be right back. i can't wait. best selling author carl hiassen is next on "morning joe."

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a new children's novel.

chump. it's not about snakes, right? >> of course there snakes. >> there pinkies and a cup holder in there? >> we are not going to tell that story. >> it's a good one. >> that's a horrible story. >> really? >> we spent time with carl. we have this weird obsession with snakes. grab him by the neck. >> it's hard to do it without getting bad. you can't do it. >> if you are off by a couple of

millimeters, you can't be off. talk about the end, the swan song for them and how it came to a bloody end one day. >> i thought as a prelude i should release the snakes and i let them go in the yard. it was much earlier and i thought they were gone and as the guests were coming up, there was a large snake in the driveway and i knew i had to make a decision. >> a big snake. >> it was a big snake, but i grabbed them and i greeted the guests.

i made the mistake of pointing. >> 'would you do that? i'm meeting a lot of people for the first time. >> no better way. >> there important people and i wanted not to appear shocked. pa. >> you are acting cool, but you have blood. >> this happens all the time. shook the snake free and i want pictures from the wedding reception and that's like a

george forman grill. >> speaking of that, how about this segue. talk about your children's book. >> because i have a 12-year-old, i got obsessed with watching reality tv's animal planet and discovery channel and they have the tv survivor shows. they get dropped and they want you to pretend they are all along and they have a camera crew and a sound guy and granola bars and probably a whole set up. these are the funny shows on television. i thought they would be fun and kids love it when you spoof grown ups and i took a reality show situation where there was a survival song drop and he gets lost while they are doing the show. he has to survive and get out. he gets flown back to the ritz

carlton. anyway, that's the set up. two of the kids are the heroes. they have to help him get out. i love the everglades. that's where i grew up. it's a literary triumph. >> the thing that you have to love is they are so in touch with the moment. the last book, the star island was about a celebitant. every day is born a new reality show for you to spoof. >> especially in florida. you have been talking about it. i had a childhood full of wild stuff that drove my parents crazy. this was fun because kids are really sharp humor and smart as humor and they love that.

they watch these shows and the grown ups are saying he's out there by himself. how is he going to get back? the chopper is waiting to take him become to the hotel. >> you like writing for kids as much as adults? you have to round off the edges a little bit. >> obviously i have to take the trapezes out of the bedroom. this is the normal things. the kids are the best and they write you the best. i never wrote to an author and never would have thought to. i get tons of mail and you are smart and sharp and as my editor said, you get the joke the first time. you don't have to repeat it. >> you started writing when you were 6? >> the type writer is this thing that looks -- you know. a lot like a computer. i have to explain it because what's a typewriter? the kids are on the ipad. it was a smith corona. i was the only 6-year-old that

had one. oddly enough. i also have a bike and a baseball. >> and snakes. lots of snakes. >> i was a lonely child. >> what's going on in your state politically and does mid-romney have the chance to appeal to floridians? >> he has a chance. a lot will depend on the economy. you talk about the women voters and it has been a big shift. if the republicans keep talking about contraception, they are going to lose. they are going to lose the women vote. that isn't what they want to talk about. >> contraception is popular in florida? >> extremely popular. >> we like it. >> the problem is there is not enough of it and we have 18 million people. he has a chance. the economy is a thing. we spent a lot of time down there, but he was bashing and beating up on gingrich.

that was like shooting fish in a barrel. he didn't need much help. the ad they ran over and over again in florida was the tom brocaw opening lead to the newscast and gingrich was sent by the house. no commentary. that was it. i don't know how he will do one on one and obama is pretty good, but it's a freak show. the vice presidential nominee will be important, but i don't know if it's going to be. >> we can say that as floridians, florida is say freak show. >> a 24-hour freak show. you never know what's going to happen. >> people flood in and out of there. >> that's why so many writers are there. not because we are artistic and like the sun, but you go where the freaks are. >> great material. by the way, he is saying this about the people who read his column that takes us to the website where carl's people put

on the website that he's got this very famous columnist who has one time or another is missed off everyone in south florida. there we go again. >> there we go. proud of it. >> carl, thank you so much. >> great having you here and they said such wonderful things about you. >> it's a mystery. we have to find out what's going on. >> an excerpt on the blog at mo joe. >> i hurt my back and i'm sticking with the story. >> thank you so much. good to see you. up next, business before the bell with michelle caruso cabrera. keep it here on "morning joe."

hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.

>> per time to get with michelle caruso cabrera. >> good morning. we have very exciting news at cnbc. our favorite kind of story. a hostile take over. cody wants to buy avon products. they make beyonce's favorite and baby phat's fragrance and they want to buy avon. >> tim has a fragrance? >> what do you mean? >> we didn't know he had a fragrance. >> intuitively. >> i don't understand fragrances. i don't get it. >> the one thing you understand about fragrances is the person who endorses it, it's like free money. the metrics are so good for the person who has it. >> you give everyone a headache.

>> do you want to smell like a -- i don't know. >> tim mcgraw sex panther. >> you get your nails done, sally han is made by avon. they had a lot of trouble and they had declining profits and an investigation as to whether or not they have been bribing chinese officials. it's in turmoil and they are striking while they have the potential. avon said it's not enough money. if you own avon shares, the shares are higher by roughly 27%. what's significant is they are trading at even more than what cody is offering. the market is saying you have to pay more or maybe we will wait to see and this will be more exciting. will esty lauder come in with a competing bid? will tupperware that has a make up line have a competing bid? >> tupperware? >> they sell make up in south america door-to-door like avon

does. >> i have the graw information. >> is it called panther. >> it's a woody spicy fragrance that is irresistibly masculine. >> is it in a box? >> it's just naturally. here's the whiskey. >> alex told me that there is one with faith hill called soul 2 soul. >> that's husband and wife. >> two fragrances and one less story. >> here's the thing about hostile bids. they are seen as a good sign for the economy and the markets. you are not going to do this unless you are confident about future sales and everything else. there is a broader message here. >> we appreciate that while we are showing every celebrity's full screen musty smelling fragrance. that's good. thank you, michelle.

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we will have "new york times" columnist frank bruni

talking on "morning joe." >> we need to talk about strange scents that celebrities and men with and what we learn. >> they give me a headache. here's a business travel update. the middle of the country is very warm. thunderstorms late today and some of the big cities that were cloudy and gloomy all weekend will clear out. this afternoon sunshine and windy from new york to boston. late day thunderstorms possible everywhere in the midwest. have a great day. i get it...guys weekend. yeah! if you're looking for a place to get together, you came to the right place. because here at hotels.com, we're only about hotels.

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i remember the day my doctor told me i have an irregular heartbeat, and that it put me at 5-times greater risk of a stroke. i was worried. i worried about my wife, and my family. bill has the most common type of atrial fibrillation, or afib. it's not caused by a heart valve problem. he was taking warfarin, but i've put him on pradaxa instead. in a clinical trial, pradaxa 150 mgs reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin without the need for regular blood tests. i sure was glad to hear that. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding, and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have a bleeding condition like stomach ulcers, or take aspirin, nsaids, or bloodthinners, or if you have kidney problems, especially if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all medicines you take, any planned medical or dental procedures, and don't stop taking pradaxa without your doctor's approval, as stopping may increase your stroke risk.

other side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning. pradaxa is progress. if you have afib not caused by a heart valve problem, ask your doctor if you can reduce your risk of stroke with pradaxa. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. . >> welcome back and it's time to talk about what we learned. >> it's autism awareness day and

they are luck to have bob and suzanne fighting for autism speaks.org. >> i learned mika met everyone she wanted to meet. >> name one person you would like to meet and she couldn't come up with a single name. it's a well-lived life. >> barney rubble. you never met him. she has no idea who that is. >> i learned that i don't really know who i want to meet. >> you know what i learned? i learned that success has a smell. ladies and gentlemen, if you haven't yet, you must try success by trump. >> highly advertised. >> tim mcgraw has a woody musty smell. what kind of smell do you think he has? >> smells like gold. >> that's right. smells lik