>> bodyguards. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews. in washington, leading off tonight, the president and the secret service. this is a scandal not going away. member of congress both democrats and republicans are skeptical of the secret service's claim that president obama was not in potential danger. we have the latest information about the scandal, about how many women were really involved here. also, last night the republicans beat back the popular buffett rule which would have raised taxes on

millionaires. the alternative? lowering taxes on most businesses. president obama says fairness is a winning argument. is it more important than the condition of our economy? plus, mitt, they're just not that into you. you new orc poll says when it comes to being likeable president beats romney by, catch this, 2-2 '01. don't look now but that might be the most important number you hear this entire campaign. and what ann romney had to say about the story that won't go away. shamus the dog on the car roof. let me fin wish mitt romney's trash talk about the obama's needing to pack up. we begin with new details on that secret service sex scandal. nbc news investigative correspondent michael isikoff joins me right now. what do we got? >> this entire scandal that rocked the secret service dispute of less than $60. basically what i've been told from sources today is 11 secret

service agents who were down there, part of the secret service advance team, went to this strip club in cartagena, the ply club, and that's where they procured these women, bring them back to the hotel, register them as overnight guests in the hotel, and the dispute arises because one woman was two agents, two members of the elite counter assault team. and what happened is there was a dispute over how much she wanted to be paid. she wanted to be full price for two agent. they wanted to split the price. she complains to local police who are stationed at the hotel. the police go to the agents' room. bang on the door. they refuse to answer. the embassy dispatches people down, they immediately see that all 11 agents have brought back women as overnight guests to the

hotel. they contact the head of the secret service and he orders them back. all of this over a dispute of less than $60. >> this is an investigation can be, can you say how says stemmic this is in we heard from senator collins today that 20 to 21 women were involved, so maybe some of these guys -- although this one case they were there were more women than men involved. this is something to be something that rarely ever happens, they weren't hiding from their supervisors, they weren't hiding from each other. >> that's the critical thing. there's been stories up for years, wheels up the motto. >> i've never heard it. >> i think it was sort of heard within secret service circles, but how much of this was bragging as opposed to reality. it's hard to say. certainly nothing of this scale has ever been.

>> my question was, who went around making sure everybody had their $200. who arranged for all of the cab fair. who put it all together? this is a lot of people moving a lot of women for sexual purposes. in a hotel that was checking them in as overnight guests? there is no way it hide this at all. >> the hotel, first of all, colombian police were all over the hotel. four stationed at the front door. one on each floor i'm told. >> okay, i always say about water gate, was it bad? i say i think they got away with it. that's 9 key question. suppose this guy hadn't disputed the bill. >> the women. >> suppose they hadn't disputed it. would there be any investigation? would we be talking about? no. in other words, it would just go on. >> exactly. that's the amazing thing about this. one colombian prostitute protests over how much she's being paid and it rocks. the secret service. >> she was the one operating out

of the norm, not the rest of the people. >> thank you, great work. we're now joined by pierce the congressman. i always ask you to grab any questions first. is this something embarrassing to our country in latin-america. >> it is embarrassing but as far as being grave it could have been a national issue. something that is not allowed to happen. these 11 agent could have put the president at risk. put the country at risk. you are talking about colombia, where they have terrorist. these women could have been operatives, coming in to drug them, get information from them. and whether or not they were prostitutes, you cannot bring a foreign national back into a hotel which is being set up for preparation of presidential visit. this violate all of the rules of the secret service. >> do you think there was a real chance ta one of these women,

professional sex workers, i guess they're called these days. >> well it was common with the soviets. blackmailing them, threatening them. stealing lap tops, whatever it was. i think chris, everything we've seen so far, there is no evidence that anything was compromised. having said that, the secret service is right now down in colombia in the process of interviewing all of the 11 women involved. they know who they are. and questions have to get them. they have to question them to find out if they have any underworld organized crime connections. we seem to have ducked a bullet on this one but we cannot allow this to happen pz. >> your colleagues have the right to raise questions about whether the president was put to risk, the same question they put to you. here's elijah cummings of maryland telling andrea mitchell today that there were real concerns by now.

let's watch? >> in my travels throughout my history, one of the questions is, do you think the president is safe? i got to tell you, this puts a big question mark on that very issue. >> they were very swift in saying the president was never put into danger. there was never any threat to the president. i beg it differ. if you have secret service agents there and they've had their room compromised, you've had guests in your room, let alone prostitutes, they have ammunition, weapons. they have credentialing. they know the president is coming and going, which doors he might be going through. so to suggest to quickly the president was never in danger, how do they make such a swift statement? i think that begs even more questions. >> you know, congressman, just talking about this as a regular person and you are a regular person as well as congressman, you hear the stories. i don't know if they are true or not, soviets would get, a guy waiting on a train platform and

meet the girl of his dreams, fall in love, have an fair, turns out she is an agent. her job is to bring him in and make him of an agent of the soviet union. in this case, our men went out, solicited these professional sex workers, all brought them back in practically a caravan. have you been able to get an answer about whether this is normal behavior by our agent. >> no, chris. i've been on presidential visits. i've never seen anything like this. men can be men, humans can be humans, but it cannot be allowed to happen in a situation such as this. this is not standard procedure. i have spoken to people in previous administrations. people have no reason to be defending the obama administration. bit way, this is nothing to do with the obama administration. i want it make that clear. people from previous administrations have no reason to defend anyone. this took them by surprise. they are not aware of this going on. certainly not to this extent. i understand cummings concern

and they were real concerns, but i think we know, as of now, it has been a pretty full investigation at this level, that there was no compromise or threat to the president's security. but there certainly could have been. >> so a dozen guys go out to a club, a strip club. this strip club had an added feature. they had sex workers available on-site who lived there. they took the women back there with their hotel. checked them as an overnight guest. one gets in dispute over one or two of the agent overpayment. one question is this endemic and the other is this jeopardizes it. but i have tremendous respect for the secret service.

i work with them closely. they do a phenomenal job. >> that's my question, were they entrapped. >> well these are big boys. they can't afford to be entrapped. they cannot allow themselves to be entrapped. that's part of being a secret service agent. you and i might have weaknesses. we are not secret service. i don't even think they should be drinking heavily. they are snipers. they have to be in top shape. when you're on a mission like this, your job is to protect the president of the united states. you saw with ronald reagan. they jumped in front of bullets. that's what secret service is there for. they do the job almost all the time. that's why this has to be stopped. we can't allow the good name of the secret service to be tarnished by 11 agent. >> i'm one of the guys who has seen the movie "in line of fire"

about ten times. i believe in these guys like clint eastwood played in the movie. is mark sullivan doing well in head of the service. >> he is. as soon as it was brought to his attention, within minutes, he ordered the men out of country on the next available plight. made sure their positions were replaced and that president would not be jeopardized by these men being taken out of country. he met quickly. i spoke with him and this is an angry man. as he said, as soon as he got himself off the ceiling, after hearing, he ordered the money out of the country. he is 34, 35 years in the secret service. he is devastated and will take tough action, i'm sure of that. >> peter king of new york state, thank you so much for joining us. chairman of the homeland security committee. coming up, president obama is betting on economic fairness. that's the keyword of the campaign for him. is he right?

or is it more important to talk about the state of economy and will that trump even fairness with some voters? this is "hardball." ♪ surf's up everybody get your boards and your wetsuits ♪ free-credit-score-dot-com's gonna direct you ♪ ♪ to check your credit score before it gets too late ♪ ♪ and you end up strapped for cash ♪ ♪ patching your board with duct tape ♪ ♪ so hit free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ find out what credit's about ♪ ♪ or else you could be headed for a credit wipeout ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™.

the general election campaign is well under way and we have three new poll numbers that tell the story about where president obama and mitt romney now stand. let's check the "hardball" score board. first a new gallup tracking poll has, get this, romney leading by 48 to 43. again, this is just a daily poll. tracking poll. the next shows obama with a narrow lead. up over romney 49-45. but he had a 12-point lead just last month. still in the reuters poll, president with four point lead there. he was up at 11. looks like he is slipping significantly. new cnn poll shows the president with nine point lead. there you go back to that. we'll be right back.

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back to "hardball." it's no surprise that republicans blocked the debate on one of the key campaign messages this year. so so call buffett rule. the white house says it is about fairness getting billion airs and millionaires to pay a minimum tax like most of us. what happens to be a piece of legislation that puts romney on the defense is peculiar to him. he is at 1% if there ever was one. romney had a tax rate of less than 14%. catch that? a guy worth quarter billion dollars paying less than 14. will their efforts to paint romney as an out of touch millionaire work?

howard fineman is editorial director of the huffington post. prize and msnbc distributor. his organization won the prize again this year. chris aliz is also is not msnbc contributor. you want it pay tribute, chris, while our on. new kids on the block. >> did fineman win -- >> no, his colleagues did. he made it clear, he is proud of his colleagues. i give him credit because he is a great man generally. i'm just teasing here to start this thing. it seems to me the republicans are banking, howard, on the economy taking another fall. and then really having an opportunity. the way it is now it looks like it favors obama but if it takes a bit after fall is called second dip, the president needs to be prepared, if it takes a second dip, they need the argument to make. they don't need the fairness argument but figure it is an insurance policy. is that right?

>> yes, they are going on the attack. >> if the economy booms they don't need it. >> they don't need it if the economy booms. but if it doesn't they are going preemptively on the attack. that's what they often do. try to keep the other guy from getting in the boat, in the presidential boat so to speak. keep them out of there. they say mitt romney is uniquely unqualified because he represent everything that's wrong with an unfair system. now look at that. >> a fat cat. >> he looks like a fat cat. he is a fat cat. he em bodies and benefits from the unfairness of game today. the president is trying to change the conversation away from the current economic conditions, however good or bad they are, to the notion that the whole thing is stacked against middle class people and mitt romney is the embodiment of the reason why. >> here is the thrust. main super pac supporting the president with the new ad this week attacking romney for his work at bain capital and refusal to release more tax returns.

you only released one year, not the 12 i think his father released. let's watch. >> mitt romney. he made millions off companies that went bankrupt while workers lost promised health and retirement benefits. his own tax return from last year reveals he made $21 yet paid a lower tax rate than many lower class families. now romney is proposing a new huge $150,000 tax cut for the wealthiest 1% while cutting medicare and education for us. mitt romney, if he wins, we lose. >> so if he wins, we lose. the voice of that narrator doing the voice over there, that was very nice. didn't have the usual carping voice these ads have. what do you make of that, chris? she nicely told us this guy is one of the 1%. >> well, i would say, chris, i don't want it get too in the weeds but i would say it is interesting given what we know about the gender gap, a female narrate or narrator. >> i think it is interesting. >> yeah. >> it is usually a tough sarcastic male voice.

>> the one thing i would say about that ad is if the obama team has its way, and if we wined up saying that barack obama got re-elected, it will be because they made that picture, that whole ad just has one single picture from mitt romney's years as bain capital just replayed over and over again. it will be because they made that one picture synonymous with mitt romney in the same way the bush campaign in '04 made the john kerry, the famous picture of him wind surfing synonymous as john kerry. if is synonymous that if he wins, we lose, it is not about who raises your taxes 0r lowers your taxes. it is usually an argument that democrats lose politically. if they can change the conversation or tweak it, they win. >> the conversation changed at least in the short. here is the mainstream media. here diane sawyer, questioning romney on this very question of

fairness, which has been raised by the democrats. >> the story out now that there's an elevator for your cars in the new house you're planning in la jolla. are you too rich to relate? >> you know, we don't divide america based on success and wealth and other dimensions of that nature. er with one nation under god. we come together. this is a time when people of a different backgrounds and different experiences need to come together. >> do you still think the fairness question is about envy? is the fairness concern about envy? >> well, i think it is unfair that this president's been in office 3 1/2 years and 93% of the people who lost their jobs have been women. >> howard, was that a good spin out of there by that unquestionable 93% thing? >> well, the statistics don't quite hold up or they needed further explanation in context. >> by the way, who caused the recession. oh, that question.

>> that is the best way out the a the end. he should have gotten to that earlier. the obama campaign may be over thinking things a little bit. they may say, let's emphasize the buffett rule. let's emphasize taxes on people making a million dollars a year or month. that fits into the narrative as to who romney is as a rich guy. they think it is all one piece. what they may be missing is that it is an great idea for any democrat, even this democrat, to spend all of his first three weeks of the general election, which is what it is, talking about raising taxes. now i know what the polls show. and i know that there is 72% support for the buffett rule, meaning 30% minimum taxation on -- >> yeah, only 27% oppose it. >> that's true as far as it goes. but i question whether the obama campaign is feeding in to some of the preconceptions about democrats. what do you think? >> chris, that same question. let me say this, you know, you

can ask people all kinds of questions. do you think this, do you think that. they will give me an answer. but does it really weigh on their decision? that's the question. yeah we ought to have fair taxes. how do you vote? i vote whether i can get a job or not. whether my kids can get a job or not. >> the other thing chris and howard is hitting on this, and i could not agree with him more. i think you can pick polls, both sides will do it for the next seven months, that affirm their viewpoint. i still think that there are preconceived notions about what the two parties do best that exist among the electorate. that is democrats tend to have advantages when the debate is about education or healthcare. republicans tend to have advantages when the debate is about national security or taxes. now that's not true in every single issue. the buffett rule is clearly an example. but i agree with howard. i wrote about this today. i compared taxes to democrats willingly playing an aware game, chris. using a sports metaphor. purposefully going into the gym of the other team.

now they think that this old dynamic that you can't win on tax says wrong. that democrats can win now because it's about fairness, not about higher or lower. i would say go back and look historically, democrats rarely win when the debate centers for any extend period of time on tax policy. >> chris, one reason they're doing it, in addition to the point that numbers don't add up and there is further weight on middle class in terms of taxes, is that they have a candidate in mitt romney, obama thinks, that they can attach to this whole question. so they see it all -- >> perfect for this campaign. >> perfect for this campaign. except i'm not sure if it's the democrats as chris said -- >> i'm with howard. >> i'm with all your thinking. except what i like is aggressive politics. we all grew up, gee, howard and i especially, grew up in the cowboy movies when the soldiers would come out of the fort and fight the indians. and why? because they are calvary.

they didn't hide behind the fence. they went out to fight these guys. going out shows bracing. guts, cajones. thank you howard, thank you chris. like a democrat says, let's talk taxes? up next, bark if you believe this one. romney says shamus just loved being up there on the roof of the that car. he even loves the look of the box they put him in up there. that's according to ann. you're watching "hardball." hello!

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has a facebook page these days. but where's the relationship status? well, esurance is now in a relationship...with allstate. and it looks pretty serious. esurance. click or call. back to "hardball." time for the side show. first, mitt and ann romney finally gave us more context into the infamous story of their family dog, shamus, having an accident, if you will, during

the roof of their car during the long road tripe to montreal. take a look at what they told abc's diane sawyer. >> would you do it again? >> certainly the intention -- >> you said it was the most wounding thing in the campaign so far. >> it's crazy. the dog loved it. >> but the dog got sick, right? s once. we travel all the time and he ate the turkey on the downer. main, he had the runs. >> god, the dog loved it. i still have a hard time believing that one. yeah, put me on the roof. next, shades of jimmy carter and kill the rabbit. caught up with newt gingrich at the nascar hall of fame this weekend. he wanted to talk about a run-in with an animal during recent trip of his to the zoo. >> i got bit by a penguin. >> at the zoo? >> i went to the st. louis zoo and i got bit by a penguin. some were busy speaking so i went off to look at the zoo. i saw a tiger named calista. so i saw calista, a big tiger.

>> i got bit by a penguin, he said it three times. but a zoo spokesman says a band-aid was enough to suffice the bite. >> to newt gingrich i would say, speaker gingrich with all due respect, let's get on this, okay? he made a great run. i even endorsed newt gingrich at one point, because i thought that had a shot. well, not now, he doesn't have a shot. >> here is a thought, if your days are spent visiting penguins and tigers and now, herman cain says it's time to quit, you might take the queue. and lastly, a sight not to be missed in washington, d.c. this morn ppg space shuttle discovery on top after boeing 747 doing a fly-by. there it is. shuttle made her final journey from the kennedy space center at cape canaveral this morning to its new home, the smithsonian air and space museum, out of

dulles airport. up next, poll after poll shows by margin of 2-1, voters that obama is more likeable than romney and romney's latest prevada might not help with the likability talk. he is doing trash talk and it's not helping him, i don't think. you're watching "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." this is a great segment coming up. mitt romney has won the nomination, we know that, but he hasn't exactly won the hearts and minds of the american people. a research poll asked who is more likeable. simple question. president obama or mitt romney. 56% chose barack obama. 27% for mitt. this is serious business. ron reagan, the author of "my father, the hunter." i read your book this weekend and it's fabulous. >> thank you. >> i'm slow on the reading department. this is not a giant door stop after book.

can you actually read it in a few day answers learn something about your dad. >> thank. >> you right, left or center, a hell of a book, and i mean it. a beautiful person, have you written any books lately? >> no. >> okay, heading the women's center for politics. this is an easy segment. because anyone can decide this. both mitt and ann romney i would say exuded overconfidence last night in the interview with diane sawyer. this is what he would say to the president. let's listen. >> start packing. that's what i would like to say. obviously we have a very different view. the president i'm sure wants another four years. but the first years didn't go so well. >> you know, i got to know michelle. she is a lovely person. i've never met barack obama. but i believe it's mitt's time. i believe that country needs the

kind of leadership that he is going to be able to offer. and i believe he is the person that can turn around this economy. so i think it is -- it's our turn now. >> our turn. it's his time. what is this prince charles? i mean, just wait your turn. if that were it, ron, you would be president now. just wait your turn. your dad was president. just wait your turn and you get the job. this entitlement. i won't use the adjectives. it just strikes me as entitlement. >> it looks like entitlement. by every stretch of the i imagination. there is nothing that mitt romney has shown us that shows us 245 that he has an idea of what it is like to be humble. >> campaign advice. by the way, nobody can be told to be humble. you either are or you aren't. >> indicate that you are. at least try. >> okay. how do you think this will help his likability rating now that

it is time for the president of the united states to pack up. >> not at all. the diane sawyer interview i think it a perfect reason of why people don't like mitt romney. he is unauthentic. talking to mitt romney is like playing a ball of mercury. i don't know, if when you were a kid, you would get a ball of mercury. >> no, i just blew the balloon bubbles -- >> yeah. you poke it one way and it would squirt out one way. then you poke it and it would squirt the other way. you couldn't pin down the ball of mercury. you can't pin down romney. >> it turns out to be relatively difficult, like this one, not that it was difficult questions but it exposed a lot. brent bear got the president to cross his legs a couple of times. what kind ever interview is this. like he's upset. back to you, michelle. this guy is on a charm offensive?

no. no he is not on one. >> he is trying to be on one but this is his definition of being charming. it is a huge problem. one of the things he -- >> you mean, he laughs after he says pack your bags. he laughs after saying pack your bags, but he doesn't say anything positive about the president. >> among those who say they will vote for mitt romney, who say they will, i believe them, the poll asks why they are doing it. are they for romney or against the president. a whopping 63% of romney voters say they are simply voting against the other guy and not for the guy. 63%. >> almost two thirds. almost two thirds. >> they want a bouncer? that's all they want is a bounce perp they don't want a president. they want a guy who will at least clear the other guy out. but don't they realize they will get him in the bargain, ron? >> absolutely true. the best thing that romney has going for him is that there is a certain segment of the republican party that really just hates barack obama so they will vote for anybody instead of barack obama.

but beyond that, you got a real problem. and he seems to be totally, totally tone deaf about his wealth and how that relates it other people. here are some words that you should never say if you're running for president of the united states. austrian warm blood and dressage. john kerry got crews crucified. >> how about a budget that cuts the poor people at marvelous. it is a marvelous budget. >> of course if you go back to the number though, here is what i find disconcerting. if you look at the poll we're talking about, barack obama beats mitt romney by double digits on likability, honesty, confidence confidence, values, leadership, every personal characteristic. yet, a portion of the population will say, i hate barack obama so much -- i don't even think it is the economy. >> republicans -- it is about a corner of the country that does.

maybe more but just about a quarter. and a lot of people are concerned about the economy. by the way, if you want it hear a real love song, here is rick santorum. he said in a conference call yesterday, as far as how you vote, that's up to you. i haven't supported any candidate so that's up to pup and here is a real love song from boehner, speaker of the house. he has formally done it without a thrill. let's listen to this -- well a loveless marriage i would call it, but here it comes, his endorsement. >> it is clear now that mitt romney will be our nominee. i think mitt romney has a set of economic policies that can put americans back to work and frankly, contrast sharply with the failed economic policies of president obama. and i will be proud to support mitt romney and do everything i can to help him win.

>> ron reagan? >> his heart was really in that. could you just feel is brewing inside john boehner. mitt romney ill list its a collective, from the public. >> the worst thing they said about fritz mondale, running against ron's father was he was palenta. for not the most exactly vegetable on the plate. >>he's got a republican gap. a gender gap. a latino gap. he's got an african-american gap. >> play with white guys. >> what's left, really? >> white guys. >> white guys over 65. >> human tapioca, chris. >> i love tapioca, don't say that. >> i know you're somewhere in the middle. >> i will ask you first. if you have what you have and you can't fake it, how do you sell being a 1 percenter?

>> well this is the only thing i think he can do. if 63% of the people support him support him only if they don't like barack obama, all he can do is play on anti-incumbent ma lays. and really give people more reasons not to vote for barack obama. because there are not enough reasons to vote for mitt romney. that's all has left. >> even i am better than this guy. >> that's all he has left. >> that's real campaign theme. thank you ron reagan and thank you michelle bernard. coming up a little later, who does mitt romney think he is to tell the president to start packing? [ male announcer ] that. right there -- reminds you why you fell in love with her in the first place. and why you still feel the same. but your erectile dysfunction -- that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions

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i mean, go. it's your break, honey. same coverage, more savings. now, that's progressive. call or click today. the republican governor scott walker was likely democratic challenger in the state's recall election. let's check the score board again. according to a new poll walker is at 50% and his strongest challenger tom barrett of milwaukee is at 46. bare set one of four democrats who will face off next month at a primary so he could pick up some speed this that. the actual recall in wisconsin is coming up on june 5th. that's what it's all. we'll be right back.

we're back with build baby big. this country used to do big things. the hoover dam of course. great interstate highway system under president eisenhower. unfortunately not any more. the latest example of our reluctance to do anything comes from chris christie who famously or infamously, i should say, stopped the building of a couple tunnels between new york and new jersey saying his state couldn't afford the price. a new report called in question. i saying christie's numbers and critics expect kristy's twisted facts to demonstrate his pretended frugality. how can this country thrive, i'd

ask, in the 21st century which we are entering slowly with a 20th century intratruck tour. pete is a former spokesman for w. and joan wash writes tore salon. joan, i know you're raring to go. you have the he toughest fight here. new york. and new jersey. are connected. it's impossible to separate them unless you don't do the job of making it happen. this is the megapolis. there is a traffic jam every damn night. you can't get through there. it makes perfect sense to put a new tunnel and christie says, we can't afford it. it turns out, it is only about 14%, the state's share, not the 70% he claims. pete -- >> well first -- >> let me go with pete. let him play defense here. why didn't he get his numbers straight first of all? >> well, i'll be on offense. because if you look at the facts, the federal government

did the estimates on the project. in 2007 they said it would cost $74 billion. >> but what's the state's share. >> the federal government said their investment will be capped at $3 billion. so the high end of the estimate is $14 billion. so the the federal government caps at 3 blgds, the bulk of the share is new jersey. new york isn't putting in the share. >> it's one in seven. it's 14. >> okay. the federal transportation administration did an estimate. they said it's going to cost upwards of $14 billion. >> what's his plan for uniting new york and new jersey for traffic which has to be done? the traffic is building and building every day. there are more cars every year. why not grow? why is he starving his state? >> i don't think he's starving his state. >> how are they going to get to new york? >> we can't afford. >> we can't afford to have new jersey to go to new york?

>> how can you say something like that? >> my philosophy is we developed as a country because there's smart public and private enterprise. the private enterprise could not have gotten across the country without the railroad. it couldn't have gotten around without the highway system. things have to be done by the government for private sector activities to occur. a truck can understand go down a road if there's no road there. >> if there's no road. >> or tunnel. >> or a tunnel. since this is a political show i also want to say i think chris christie has really damaged his brand here. i know one of the things you praised about him is he's supposed to be a straight talker, this no bs guy. the gao shows this is a lot of bs. he exaggerated the cost new jersey was going to bear. i'm i'm sorry, pete.

they break it down. they say what the fact was going to be. he said they were going to be on the hook for a lot more than they were. >> let's let him defend himself. here he is after the gao report was released. he said the new jersey taxpayers would have been stuck with the bill while new yorkers got a free ride. >> when that he want to build a tunnel to the basement of macy's and stick the new jersey taxpayers with a bill of 3 to $5 billion over, no matter how old the administration yells and screams you have to say no. you have to look them right in the eye and say no. you have to be willing to say no to those things that promise your principles. >> he's out there defending his move to shift the money over to keep the gas tax down, but what

good is lower gas taxes if you can't get to where you're going to get. >> we have to figure some way out. in indiana, we've done public-private partnerships. >> have you been to the lincoln or holland tunnel? >> i have. i wasn't driving. >> things aren't able to grow. >> look, we need to find a way to do this. i know there's all this type about hybrid and electric technology. those cars aren't paying gasoline tax if they aren't putting gas in their car. to your point, we need to look long term. >> you know when they built the empire state building?

right in the middle of great depression. >> what would you have said? >> we need to look another our fiscal -- >> thank you very much. you lost tonight. pete seat thanks for joining us. pete seat joins us. when we return let me finish with mitt romney's trash talk about president obama. imagine saying this, start packing. your mascara may be voluminous but will it last. [ male announcer ] new lashblast 24hr with anti smudge power will last through all your drama. who knew lashes this big could last this long. [ male announcer ] new lashblast 24hr from covergirl.

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>> what sort of person would tell the president of the united states elected by the american people to start packing? is this some middle weight boxer mouthing out about his title. sorry, mitt. it's nothing of the sort and this jive is beneath a major party candidate for president. just when you got the nomination locked up you start talking like a hot shot. it reminds us of the public personality we have come to recognize in you, mitt romney, the last several months. the guy who likes firing people. the guy who brags about his wife having a couple of cadillacs. the guy who finds budget plans

to cut for poor people, marvelous. it's the belief that he's from some ruling class that has to wait a bit to get what's coming to him. i wonder if people are going to like this. i notice that those backs him are doing it to get rid of president obama. they don't like him. they cares about who does the dirty work of getting rid of obama. have we ever elected a bouncer as president. someone's who chief mission is the defeat of personnel there. have we lowered the bar so low many terms of personality and vision that we are raerd to send someone to have the white house to get rid of the other guy. his main claim to get in the office is to removal of the current occupant. start packing. what a line. what a statement about the low