this is an american crisis that we have one in five kids in this country going to bed hungry. >> thank you for your time. i appreciate it. that's "the ed show." "the rachel maddow show" starts now. good evening. >> good evening, ed. thank you. it is election night. polls have just officially closed right here in the great state of new york. according to nbc news right now, results in new york, 95 delegates are at stake. the primary having just closed. occasionally, we get calls at the moment that the polls close that. is not the case in new york with zero percent in. polls closed about an hour ago in pennsylvania. nbc news is projecting that mitt romney is the winner in the commonwealth of pennsylvania. voters in rhode island have cast their ballots and nbc news predicting that mitt romney has won new hampshire. and in connecticut, nbc news projecting that mitt romney will win in connecticut tonight. and in the state of delaware tonight, nbc news declaring that

mitt romney has won in the great state of delaware. although delaware is the second smallest state in the country with 17 total delegates at stake for the state, it has a little bit of special significance in terms of today's news. tonight's republican primaries in particular, because newt gingrich told nbc news yesterday that if he didn't finish at least a close second to mitt romney in delaware, that he would have to "reassess his campaign." that led to speculation if the delaware race is a blowout for mitt romney tonight, we might see newt gingrich formally suspending his campaign and effectively quitting the race this evening. mr. gingrich spoke in the last hour. he did not quit the race. we'll have more on his remarks tonight. and his future in the race

coming up in the show. mr. romney's speech tonight, interestingly, is not taking place in any of the states that were voting today. mitt romney was not speaking in new york or pennsylvania or rhode island or connecticut or delaware and he's not doing what some other candidates have done this year, which is to not give their speech in a state that has just voted but instead give their speech in a state that is about to have a primary soon in the next round of voting. instead, mitt romney tonight is giving his speech in a state that has symbolish resonance, because it is where he launched his campaign for the presidency. he's not speaking tonight in the place where he initially launched his candidacy back in 2008. when he ran in 2008, do you remember where he launched his campaign? at the henry ford museum in michigan, right? they were trying to make it seem like massachusetts wasn't his home state and michigan was.

the drag about that was, the camera angle. because the camera angle made it look like mitt romney was in the movie "northwest by northwest" and was running from a crop duster. so mr. romney tonight is going back to where he announced his presidential candidacy, but not where he announced it four years ago, but back to where he announced he was running in this year's elections. so instead of going back to michigan this time, he's going back to new hampshire. now, in the new hampshire announcement speech this year, they didn't have any camera angle problems like they did with the crop duster thing in 2008. the problem they had with the 2012 campaign launch was, do you remember sarah palin's clam bake, back when people were wondering if governor palin of alaska might be running for president this year? she made sure she just happened to be in new hampshire for a clam bake on the same day that mitt romney was in new hampshire

announcing his candidacy. totally upstaging him as you see on the front page of "the new hampshire union leader," stepping all over mitt romney's headlines that day. and mrs. palin getting to new hampshire that day wasn't an accident. it was no easy task. her bus tour literally had to barrel through tornadoes in massachusetts in order to get her to new hampshire on time to big foot mitt romney. but there she was, just 20 minutes away from where mitt romney was about to make the biggest announcement of his political life. so it's not like the launch went perfectly smoothly this time around. but the romney campaign has decided tonight to return to the scene of the crime for this speech tonight. and there's no substantive connection between new hampshire and all of the places that voted tonight. i think we are left to conclude that the new hampshire choice for tonight's speech is supposed to have symbol inresonance.

now that he's taking care of winning the republican nomination, tonight in new hampshire, he will start his campaign to win the general election. i think that is the emotional and symbolic residence behind mitt romney speaking tonight in new hampshire. moments ago, he started that beginning again speech in new hampshire. here he is. >> thank you. >> thank you. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you for that. welcome and thank you pennsylvania, delaware, rhode island, connecticut and new york. thank you. [ applause ] >> tonight i can also say thank you, america, because after 43

primaries and caucuses, many long days and more than a few long nights, i can say with confidence and gratitude that you have given me a great honor and solemn responsibility, and together we are going to win on november 6th. [ applause ] >> we launched this campaign not far from here. beautiful day in june on a farm in new hampshire. it's been an extraordinary journey. you know, americans have always been eternal optimists, but over the last three and a half years we have seen hopes and dreams diminished by false promises and weak leadership. everywhere i go americans are tired of being tired. many of those who are fortunate enough to have a job are working

harder for less. for every single mom who feels heartbroken when she has to explain to her kids that she needs to take a second job and won't be home as often. for grandparents who can't afford the gas to visit their grandchildren anymore. for the mom and dad who never thought they would be on food stamps. for the small business owner desperately cutting back just to keep the doors open one more month, to all of the thousands of good and decent americans i've met who want nothing more than a better chance, fighting chance. to all of you i have a simple message, hold on a little longer. a better america begins tonight. [ applause ]

[ crowd chanting "mitt. >> tonight is the start of a new campaign to unite every american who knows in their heart that we can do better. the last few years have been the best that barack obama can do. it's not the best america can do. tonight is the beginning of the end of the disappointments of the obama years. [ applause ] it's the start of a new and better chapter that we will write together. there's already been a long campaign. many americans are just now beginning to focus on the choice before the country. in the days ahead, i'll look forward to spending time with many of you personally. i want to hear what's on your mind. hear about your concerns. i want to learn about your

families. i want to know what you think we can do to make this country better and what you expect from your next president. i'll probably tell you a little bit about myself. i'll start by talking about my wife ann, of course. [ applause ] and i'll probably bore you with stories of my sons and grandkids. i'll tell you how much i love the country. this extraordinary land where someone like my dad who grew up poor, never graduated from college, could pursue his dreams and work his way up to running a great car company. only in america could a man like my dad become governor of the state where he once sold paint from the trunk of his car. i'd say to you -- [ applause ] >> when i see you, i think i'll

tell you may have heard that i was successful in business. [ applause ] >> yep, that rumor is true. you might not have heard that i became successful by helping start a business that grew from ten people to hundreds of people. you might not have heard that our business helped start other businesses like staples and the sports authority and the new steel mill and a new learning center called brighter horizons. not every business made it. there were good days and bad days. every day was a lesson. after 25 years, i know how to lead us out of this stagnant obama economy and into a job creating recovery. [ applause ]

>> four years ago barack obama dazzled us in front of greek columns with sweeping promises of hope and change but after we came down to earth, after all the celebrations and the parades, what do we have to show for 3 1/2 years of snem >> nothing! >> is it easier to make ends meet? >> no. >> is it easier to sell your home or buy a new one? >> no. >> have you saved what you needed for retirement? >> no. >> are you making more at your job? >> no. >> do you have a better chance of getting a job? >> no. >> are you paying less at the pump? >> no. >> if the answer were yes to those questions, then president obama would be running for re-election based on his record. and rightly so. because he has failed he will run a campaign of diversions and distractions and distortions.

they may have worked at another place and in a different time but in the here and not now. it's still about the economy. and we're not stupid. [ applause ] >> people are hurting in america. we know that something is wrong, terribly wrong with the direction of the country. we know that this election is about the kind of america we will live in and the kind of america we're going to leave to future generations. when it comes to the character of america, president obama and i have very different visions. government is at the center of his vision. it dispenses the benefits, borrows what it can't take,

consumes a greater and greater share of the economy. you know with obama care fully installed, government would have control of almost half of the economy, and we would have effectively ceased to be a free enterprise society. this president is putting us on a path where our lives will be ruled by bureaucrats and boards, commissions and czars. he's asking us to accept that washington knows best and can provide all. we have already seen where that path leads. it erodes freedom. it deadens the entrepreneurial spirit and it hurts the very people it's supposed to help. those who promise to spread the word around only ever succeed in spreading poverty around. [ applause ] >> other nations have chosen that path.

it leads to chronic high unemployment, crushing debt and stagnant wages. i have a very different vision for america and for our future. it's an america driven by freedom where free people pursuing happiness in their own unique ways create free enterprises that employ more and more americans. because there's so many enterprises that are succeeding, the competition for hard working, educated, skilled employees are intense so wages and salaries rise. i see an america with a growing middle class, with rising standards of living. i see children even more successful than their parents. some successful even beyond their wildest dreams and others congratulating them for their achievement, not attacking them for it. [ applause ]

>> this america is fundamentally fair. we will stop the unfairness of urban children being denied access to the good schools of their choice. we will stop the unfairness of politicians giving taxpayer money to their friends businesses. we will stop the unfairness of requiring union workers to contribute to politicians not of their choosing. [ applause ] >> we will stop the unfairness of government workers getting better pay and benefits in the very taxpayers they serve. [ applause ]

>> and we will stop the unfairness of one generation passing larger and larger debts onto the next. [ applause ] >> in the america i see, character and choices matter and education, hard work and living within our means are valued and rewarded and poverty will be defeated. not with a government check, but with respect and achievement that's taught by parents, learned in school, and practiced in the workplace. [ applause ]

>> this is the america that was won for us by the nation's founders and earned for us by the greatest generation. it's the america that's produced the most innovative, most productive and most powerful economy in the world. as i look around at the millions of americans without work, the graduates who can't get a job, the soldiers who return home to an unemployment line, it breaks my heart. this does not have to be. it's the result of failed leadership and a faulty vision. we will restore the promises of america only if we restore the principles of freedom and opportunity that made this nation the greatest nation on earth. [ applause ] >> today the hill before us is a

little steep. we've always been a nation of big steppers. many americans have given up on this president but they haven't ever thought of giving up on themselves, not on each other and certainly not on america. [ applause ] >> in the days ahead join me, join me in the next step toward the destination of november 6th when across america we can give a sigh of relief and know that the promise of america has been kept. the dreamers can dream a little bigger. the help wanted signs can be dusted off and we can start again. this time we'll get it right. [ applause ] >> we will --

>> mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt. >> we will stop the days of apologizing for success at home and never again apologize for america abroad. [ applause ] >> it was a time not so long ago when each of us could walk a little taller and stand a little straighter because we had a gift that no one else in the world shared.

we were americans. that meant something different to each of us, but it meant something special to all of us. we knew it without question, and so did the world. those days are coming back. that's our destiny. [ applause ] >> mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt, mitt! >> you see, we believe in america. we believe in ourselves. our greatest days are ahead. we are, after all, americans! god bless this great nation. god bless this united states of america and god bless you good people. thank you so much. thank you. [ applause ] >> mitt romney speaking to a very rowdy crowd of his supporters in new hampshire just moments ago having won connecticut, delaware, pennsylvania and rhode island primaries tonight. mr. romney there declaring in effect the primary campaign over and ending with a new assertion. there was a time not long ago when we could walk a little taller and stand straighter because we were americans. mr. romney saying those days are not true now. he has a plan to bring them back. we'll be back with reaction to

mr. romney's speech and what happened on the other side of the campaign trail. president obama's events today. we have richard clark tonight. steve schmidt is here. stay with us. doesn't have to t. i'm done. i'm going to... drink this... on the porch! ♪ give me just a little more time ♪ [ female announcer ] mops can be a hassle, but swiffer wetjet's spray cleaner and absorbent pads can clean better in half the time so you don't miss a thing. swiffer. better clean in half the time. or your money back. and for dry messes big and small try swiffer sweeper vac.

with primaries tonight in pennsylvania, delaware, rhode island and connecticut, all being wrapped up in mitt romney's favor, polls have closed in new york as of about 24 minutes ago. mitt romney just gave a speech to a raucous crowd in new hampshire. in none of the places that were voting tonight, but in the place he announced his campaign for president this year. joining us now is steve schmidt. he's now a republican strategist and an msnbc political analyst. steve, always a pleasure to have you here. >> good to see you. >> this speech, it's hard to

know on a primary night whether a speech is just another speech particularly when there's no drama at all about what's going to happen in the primaries. you think it was significant. >> it is significant because tonight mitt romney became the presumptive nominee of the republican party. >> didn't he become the nominee six months ago. >> i think we all knew it was going to come. today is the day it happened. he declared it. everybody acknowledges it with the exception of newt gingrich. he's going to be the republican nominee. i think this was by far his best speech he's given. this was an economic speech aimed exactly to the middle of the electorate. it has appeal. it's a message that unites the entirety of the republican party on these economic issues. i thought he looked good tonight. we're going to have a tough race. it's going to be a close race. you're going to see this message, i think he previewed tonight, is going to be the architecture of the campaign he's going to try to run against the president. >> let me ask you about the unifying nature of this, though. mitt romney, one of his early gaffes on the campaign trial was him saying i don't care about the very poor. there's safety net and if there's problems, i'll fix it. he said that.

he's got that on his plate. house republicans just voted to or in the process of eliminating tens of billions of dollars of food stamps. mitt romney opens up his speech with talking about people on food stamps. single mothers working two jobs and seniors who can't afford gas. these are not the people he has been talking about and not the people who house republicans have been trying to woo with policies. >> house republicans are a political anchor. they have very low approval numbers. he's going to distance himself from the congressional the role, the proper role of government, how you create prosperity in the country. i think you saw mitt romney tonight very effectively preview his. >> i totally disagree. >> which is shocking to me. >> mitt romney, even if you just look at food stamps. even if you look at the student loan thing, he's trying to run as the guy that fully embraced paul ryan's budget. he made an ad that made it look speech. i agree that that vision, that economic vision would be the kind of contrast, big credible positive contrast of visions. i think that is your vision for what you'd like to hear the republicans say. it's not what mitt romney said at all tonight. i think him coming out and sayi i know. lots more to come including latest primary election results. richard clark is here. stick around. i don't want this to be a country where a shrinking number of americans are doing real well but a growing number of people but a growing number of people are struggling to get by.

that's not my idea of america. i want this to be a country where everybody get a fair shot and everybody is doing their fair share and everybody is playing by the same set of rules. this country has always made a commitment to put a good education within the reach of all who are willing to work for it. pit. that's what makes us special. that's what made us an economic super power. that's what kept us at the hugely important for democrats in 2012. and for this president in particular. when then senator obama beat senator john mccain there in 2008, that was the first time a democrat carried north carolina in a presidential election since jimmy carter back in 1976. the obama-biden campaign fought very hard for every vote they got in north carolina in 2008. you remember the night before the election in 2008, the night before the election barack obama was in north carolina, it was an outdoor speech in the rain, you may remember that mr. obama's grandmother who raised him had just passed away that morning. he addressed them with tears in his eyes that night. >> after 21 months of a campaign that has taken us from the rocky coasts of maine to the sunshine of california, we are one day away from changing america. one day. tomorrow at this defining moment in history, you can give this country the change that we need. you can do this right here in north carolina. >> that was the night before the election in 2008. the next day barack obama won the state of north carolina. first democrat to do it since the '70s. then he won the presidential election. this year it will be more difficult for democrats to win

north carolina after going blue in 2008, they swung deeply red in 2010. the political consensus is that it will be difficult for intellectually serious attempt -- >> to massively balloon the deficit? >> to deal with the debt problems. mitt romney, as a political matter, you will see him walk back from elements of the ryan budget over the course of the next couple of months. what he outlined tonight is a big philosophical disagreement. he's saying it's not the job of federal government or the united states to decides who gets what piece of an ever shrinking pie. that a rising tide lifts all boats. we're all in this together. that everybody benefits from economic growth and the policies of the last four years haven't worked. i think that rhetorically in this speech, i think it was his best effort on any of these primary nights. i think you see the preview of an economic argument that could make him the president of the united states. >> i agree this was a powerful speech. i agree that that vision, that economic vision would be the kind of contrast, big credible positive contrast of visions. i think that is your vision for

what you'd like to hear the republicans say. it's not what mitt romney said at all tonight. i think him coming out and saying i'm the food stamps guy, if you're on food stamps and you never thought you would be, then i'm your guy, i think it's amazing for him to also be the paul ryan budget guy. >> i think what he is talking about is how we grow the economy and create opportunity. he began to outline the contours of that economic message. it's obvious we have disagreements on it. i think there's big vision about how to create prosperity and economic opportunity. i think he outlined that speech tonight. >> you're hearing it, but he's not saying it. it's great to have you. steve schmidt.

i don't want this to be a country where a shrinking number of americans are doing real well but a growing number of people are struggling to get by. that's not my idea of america. i want this to be a country where everybody get a fair shot and everybody is doing their fair share and everybody is playing by the same set of rules. this country has always made a commitment to put a good education within the reach of all who are willing to work for it. that's what makes us special. that's what made us an economic super power. that's what kept us at the forefront of business and science and technology and medicine and that's a commitment we have to reaffirm today in 2012. >> that was president obama speaking today at the university of north carolina at chapel hill. north carolina, of course, hugely important for democrats

in 2012. and for this president in particular. when then senator obama beat senator john mccain there in 2008, that was the first time a democrat carried north carolina in a presidential election since jimmy carter back in 1976. the obama-biden campaign fought very hard for every vote they got in north carolina in 2008. you remember the night before the election in 2008, the night before the election barack obama was in north carolina, it was an outdoor speech in the rain, you may remember that mr. obama's grandmother who raised him had just passed away that morning. he addressed them with tears in his eyes that night. >> after 21 months of a campaign that has taken us from the rocky coasts of maine to the sunshine of california, we are one day away from changing america.

one day. tomorrow at this defining moment in history, you can give this country the change that we need. you can do this right here in north carolina. >> that was the night before the election in 2008. the next day barack obama won the state of north carolina. first democrat to do it since the '70s. then he won the presidential election. this year it will be more difficult for democrats to win north carolina after going blue in 2008, they swung deeply red in 2010.

the political consensus is that it will be difficult for democrats to win there in 2012 this time around. politico.com pointing out that 40,000 young democrats who are registered to vote in 2008 have since fallen off the state's voter rolls. democrats are trying hard to keep the state in play. with president obama's speech there today and the democratic convention scheduled to take place the first week in september and with this big push your younger voters which they need in north carolina and everywhere, the obama campaign is eager to run that health reform that young adults can stay on health insurance until they are 26. that means that millions of young people who didn't have health coverage before can have it now thanks to an obama policy that mitt romney plans to get rid of. they seem eager to run against republicans trying to make it harder for college students to be able to vote. they are eager to run on having reform student loans. having gotten rid of the system where banks were a middleman in guaranteed student loans. that meant that wall street got a guaranteed taxpayer provided multibillion dollar profit for

providing no service to students. the obama administration got rid of that banks in the middle thing. they saved tens of billions of dollars and put that money toward actual students instead. so democrats have their case to younger voters and they have their pitch to make and republicans have theirs. >> i joke and i don't mean to be flip with this because i see truth in this. i don't see how a young american can vote for a democrat. i apologize for being so offensive but i catch your attention. i mean there's some truth there. >> test time. beyond the stylistic vote for me stuff, there's something specific on which washington has to make a decision right now that applies to this political point. there's something that will make an immediate difference in the lives of millions of young people right away. something on which a decision has to be made.

got to pick a side. you want to see somebody refusing to pick a side. somebody refusing to make a decision on this? this was chuck todd this morning here on msnbc with republican congressman connie mack of florida. >> mitt romney and president obama are both endorsing essentially this plan that would not allow student loan interest rates to double by the summer. where are you on this? >> well, look, i think what's happening in the state of florida, if you don't mind, chuck, i want to talk about what's happening here in the state of flflorida. >> i understand that. this is a vote you'll have to make. >> wait, wait. but what i'm telling you is that in the state of florida, during this senate campaign, people are concerned about their home and jobs. >> you got to cast a vote on this issue about student loans. what vote are you going to cast? >> well, we'll take it when the vote comes up. we'll cast that vote. i'm telling you people that are watching, if they're in florida, they're concerned about jobs and the economy and how we're going to balance a budget with a $16 trillion debt and a 1.4 trillion deficit. this is what people are talking about. >> you don't think anything is concerned with student loan interest rate? >> we will absolutely be able to the five years are up as of this summer. if that doesn't get extended, everybody student loan rates will pop back up to where they were before. they're going to double. should everybody's student loan rates double or shouldn't they. you have to pi try to win young voters again as a means to that end, as mitt romney returns to new hampshire to try to start the campaign over again, what the media has to decide and what voters have to decide and in what voters who care about policy will have to decide is what the real choice is here because before now, mitt romney was signed on to the paul

ryan plan. paul ryan plan would decimate food stamps. tonight in his big speech, he gave his big starting the general election speech as if he's the candidate of moms and dads who never thought they would be on food stamps. you're either the guy that wants to cut it or you're the candidate of people on food stamps. even if you just look at the specific issue of student loans, before now he was with the republicans he was signed on to the paul ryan budget. he wanted everybody's student loan rates to double this summer. this has been his position through the primaries. anybody picking him in the primaries was picking that policy position. because mitt romney said that was his policy position. if you vote for mitt romney, is that in fact the policy you would be voting for? doubling student loan rates. that's where he says he's been all along. would you be voting for that or would you be voting for this new guy who is the guy running for office this week? >> i fully support the effort to extend the low interest rate on student loans. >> you do now. you do now. oh really is the general election. new week, new policy. which policy are you going to get if you elect this guy? the house republican paul ryan budget which mitt romney has signed onto would allow the student loan rate to double. that's not great way to get students to vote for you, which the democrats seem to understand very well. >> one republican congresswoman said she had very little tolerance for people who tell me they graduate with debt because

there's no reason for that. i'm just quoting here. i'm just quoting. she said students who rack up student loan debt are just sitting on their butts having opportunity dumped in your lap. i'm reading it here. i didn't make this up. now, can you imagine saying something like that? >> somebody the audience, according to the transcript said to president obama that they trusted him when he said he was quoting there. if you don't trust him and you want to know what he was quoting from, this is what the president was referring to. >> i have very little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debt or even $80,000 of debt because there's no reason for that.

i remind folks all the time that the declaration of independence says life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. you don't sit on your butt and have it dumped in your lap. >> that was virginia fox of north carolina. there was president obama today in her north carolina backyard pointing out that's what she thinks of you if you have student loan debt. sitting on your butt and having opportunity dumped in your lap. as the democrats try to win north carolina again, as they try to win young voters again as a means to that end, as mitt romney returns to new hampshire to try to start the campaign over again, what the media has to decide and what voters have to decide and in what voters who care about policy will have to decide is what the real choice is here because before now, mitt romney was signed on to the paul ryan plan. paul ryan plan would decimate food stamps. tonight in his big speech, he

gave his big starting the general election speech as if he's the candidate of moms and dads who never thought they would be on food stamps. you're either the guy that wants to cut it or you're the candidate of people on food stamps. even if you just look at the specific issue of student loans, before now he was with the republicans he was signed on to the paul ryan budget. he wanted everybody's student loan rates to double this summer. this has been his position through the primaries. anybody picking him in the primaries was picking that policy position. because mitt romney said that was his policy position. if you vote for mitt romney, is that in fact the policy you would be voting for? doubling student loan rates. that's where he says he's been all along. would you be voting for that or would you be voting for this new guy who is the guy running for office this week? >> i fully support the effort to extend the low interest rate on student loans. >> you do now. you do now.

oh really is the general election. new week, new policy. which policy are you going to get if you elect this guy?

tonight the republican primaries in pennsylvania, delaware, rhode island, connecticut and new york have been decided in favor of the de facto republican nominee now mitt romney. it was thought that newt gingrich's best shot at any of these states might be in the state of delaware. these are the results that we got from delaware at this hour. 98% of precincts reporting mr. gingrich trailing mr. romney by 30 points. it was thought that mr. gingrich said if he could avoid a blow out in delaware that that might be his best justification for staying in the race. we'll have to wait and see what he decides to do. we'll keep you posted. stay with us.

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as gas prices stay high, both political parties here in the united states continue to blame each other. democrats say oil companies shouldn't be getting tax subsidies and financiers are manipulating the market for their ben fit. republicans say that democrats could be using some magic want to bring gas prices down, but the democrats don't want to do that because communism or something. birth certificate.

but in the real world of extracting oil from the ground and selling it on the market, something interesting has just happened. the number one oil exporter in the middle east is saudi arabia. the number two oil exporter in the middle east and third in the world is iran. and 90% of the oil that iran exports comes through this place. this is off the coast of iran, way out in the persian gulf. 90% of iran's oil exports go through the oil terminal here. and the oil terminal has reportedly just been hit with a devastating computer virus. the french press reporting that the iran's other oil facilities have had the plug pulled and had to be disconnected from the internet since the attack. though no official iranian media is confirming it, the national iranian oil company were down for hours and an oil ministry spokesman has said that the

virus wiped important data off of servers. iran has reportedly set up a cyber crisis committee to confront the problem. iran is under intense pressure because of its nuclear program, which iran insists is just for nuclear power and the rest of the word insist is nor nuclear bombs. to pressure iran, the international community has been employing all the leverage they have against the iranian republic. iran is almost wholly dependent on its ability to sell oil internationally. sanctions have focused on getting more countries to refuse to buy iran's oil. but are western efforts also now taking the form of actually shutting down iran's technical ability to do that? that, that is war?

is that a kind of war? and if the west is waging that kind of war now, and with what happened this past weekend, if the west is waging that kind of war now, does that mean we should expect that kind of war to be waged against the west, as well? joining us now for the interview is richard clarke, the nation's first special adviser to the president for signer security and the nation's former counterterrorism chief and the chairman of good harbor, and his book "cyber war" is just now out in paperback. thank you for being here. >> good to be back. >> thinking about that iranian oil terminal and stux net, is cyber war is a way that countries are waging war with each other now? >> i think it's a way that the united states is attacking iran.

you could call it cyber war, or call it covert action. it's not really important whether we call it a war of the nor. it's true that the united states and probably israel are engaged in cyber activities against iran. and what happened on karg was probably the united states or israel attacking the digital control systems of the refinery. just as people could dorefineries. this is the concern. we've crossed the rubicon. we destroyed a thousand centrifuges in iran but a cyber attack. but the software we used escaped into signer space and people downloaded it all over the world. so people now know how to do it. hackers have these 50,000 lines

of code and yeah, it's possible that people will attack us. nation states, terrorist groups, individual hackers. and this is what the debate in congress is about this week. where there's a bipartisan bill in the senate to do something about improving the standards of protection for power plants, oil refineries, things that they call critical infrastructure. and the chamber of commerce and the republicans and the house are opposing creating standards of protection because they say it's regulation. this is an example of knee jerk right wing ideology getting in the way of solving real problems. >> is this type of offense and defense, something about which we should think of ourselves having the same kind of advantage militarily that we have in traditional military means? the united states spending

almost the rest of the world on traditional military resources. we think of ourselves as having an almost unbeatable military capacity, despite the things we've been involved in. do we have that kind of advantage when it comes to this kind of war? >> no, we don't. what if -- it's not true this year, but what the red sox had a killer lineup of hitters naked slug it over the great monster but had no bull pen? that's where we are. we have tremendous offensive capability, but we cannot defend this country today. so we are having cyber attacks that succeed every day. they don't destroy things, they steal things. there's a massive transfer of intellectual property from american companies to china. the government is doing nothing to stop it, because the congress won't set up laws to allow the government to defend the united

states. >> richard clarke, the book is "cyber war," just out in paperwork. this is something that's changed the discussion, both in policymaking circles and those interested in national security. nice to see you again. >> congratulations on your success and book, to. >> thank you very much. we'll be right back. now i'm blushing.

another presidential primary night. the biggest day of voting since super tuesday and turns out one of the least surprising 5 for 5 clean sweeps in the history of groups of five. nbc declaring mitt romney the winner in the state of new york, in pennsylvania, once a must-win for rick santorum. tonight, it was won by mr. romney. mr. romney the projected winner in connecticut, as well as in the great state of rhode island and finally in the first state of delaware. former house speaker newt gingrich having staked the future of his progon