as i keep the foul ball too. there's no crying in baseball. >> donna, you don't keep the foul ball. it's a very clear rule at the ballpark. here it is again. arlington, texas, last night. yankees and rangers. ball goes up into the stands. the little boy, all he wants, his dream, is to have a baseball. and look at the couple next to him. not only do they take the ball from him, but then they taunt him by taking photographs with it in his face. right in his grill. i can't watch that anymore. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i think of all the republican candidates who are prominent, i think romney would be the one that i would rather see have a slight possibility to be president. >> you'd be comfortable with a romney presidency? >> i'd rather have a democrat. but i would be comfortable. i think romney has shown in the past in his previous years as a moderate, or progressive, that

he was fairly competent as a governor and also running the olympics, as you know. he is a good solid family man. and so where he's gone to the extreme right wing positions on some very important issues in order to get the nomination, what he'll do in the general election, what he'll do as president, i think is difficult. >> all right. good morning. 6:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 26. beautiful shot as the sun barely comes up over new york city. with us onset, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. msnbc and "time" magazine analyst mark halperin. and the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. good to have you all onboard. richard, we'll have you talk about marco rubio's speech coming up. he had some problems, though, looked a little immature at times. >> we'll talk about that. >> and joe, we'll also be talking about newt gingrich beginning to step out. but first, what did you make of

president carter's comments about mitt romney? >> i think that was very telling. you've got a democratic former president, a man who always occupied the center of american politics. coming out and saying he would not be horrified if mitt romney were president of the united states. but he talked about mitt romney as the moderate. he talked about mitt romney being an effective governor when he was running massachusetts. he talked about also of course what mitt romney did in the olympics. and i think it's fairly telling. you usually don't get people who are considered party leaders like that coming out and saying that they would be comfortable with the other side winning the presidency. >> having said that, mark halperin, he was asked, and he did say he preferred a democrat, correct? >> only barely. >> or are we -- is that inappropriate for a former president? >> there

with jimmy carter a great cartr story, but it does tease out a larger story as the conventional wisdom is more and more that romneys a chance. the "wall street journal" says today it's 50/50. and we see the president doing an interview with "the rolling stone" saying romney is an extremist. part of the reason he'll be attracted to a running mate like portman, if he can focus on the economy that's the recipe for winner. and jimmy carter saying he is acceptable, it does go to a theme that a lot of democrats as they meet romney for the first time that he is acceptable. and that is his path to victory if he has one. >> mika, it speaks to a larger truth too about mitt romney. again, the very things that concern the republican base, and even concern a lot of republicans like myself, that he is not sufficiently conservative, actually may play to middle america. and by the way, jimmy carter again was a guy that got elected by middle america. he is a guy right now who

released a new book which is a bible study guide. and i think jimmy carter, more than most elected presidents, has lived in the middle of america and understands the middle of america better than most. he is a democrat. and again, he said he would rather have a democrat win. you don't want to make too much about it. but i think it does reflect a largy truth about the candidacy of mitt romney going into the general election. >> we do have some interesting new polls. but richard haass, you look quizzical. >> not at all. i remember michael dukakis saying this election is about competence. that plays very much into the times because we need competence. and people sense that you need reasonable, capable people able to fix things, and governor romney when he stands up there on the platform will look like someone who clearly meets that. so i agree with the polls that right now it's neck and neck. >> let's look at the new poll from fox news showing president obama and mitt romney in a dead heat, each with 46%. in an interview with "rolling stone" magazine, president obama

illustrated his campaign's new strategy of trying to paint mitt romney not as a flip flopper but as too extreme for the country. the president says in part, quote, you have a republican party and a presumptive republican nominee that believes in drastically rolling back environmental regulations, bargaining rights, believes in an approach to deficit reduction in which taxes are cut further for the wealthiest americans and spending cuts are entirely borne by things like education or basic research or care for the vulnerable. i don't think that their nominee is going to be able to suddenly say, everything i said for the last six months i didn't mean. i'm assuming that he meant it. joe? >> i will say this again. this is a losing strategy by the obama team. they have it completely wrong here, because americans know. mitt romney is not a radical. he is not a right-wing nut. he is a flip flopper. he is a moderate. he is a guy who's adjusted his

positions based on the political realities in front of him. if you want to be polite about it, he's very, very burkian. he looks at the world around him, and that's how he governs. the obama team has decided they are going to try to participains a right-wing radical. he's not. there are a lot of us wish he would be a bit more dramat nick the spending cuts he proposes, a bit more dramatic in the regulations he is willing to go after. but i think most americans, myself included, understand that what mitt romney says on the campaign trail and what mitt romney does when he's president of the united states if he is president of the united states, those are going to be two completely different things. it's discouraging to me. i'm just saying, this narrative that mitt romney is a radical, it's not going to sell because it's not true. >> well, let me just challenge you a little bit. >> he is a flip flopper. >> yes. but because there is that in his record, can't you then paint him

as exactly symbolic of what this republican party has begun to really look like over the past few years, because you don't know what he stands for, because he hasn't really said anything in terms of how he would lay out a budget, because he has leaned on others for his positions, because he doesn't appear to have any of his own? doesn't that leave him open and perhaps even vulnerable to be painted as anything? >> no, no. i didn't say i don't know what mitt romney stands for. >> what does he stand for? >> he stands for what he considers to be good governance, whether it's good governance in the oval office, whether it's good governance in the governor's office, whether it's good governance in the corporate office. and i think, richard haass, you'd agree with me. this guy is not a radical. whatever he does, he's going to go and he's going to try to run it as effectively as possible. and i don't think -- and i don't say this as a compliment. i don't think he has an

ideological bone in his body. >> but what does he stand for, richard? >> first of all, two things. he doesn't look like a radical. he doesn't talk like a radical. he doesn't comport himself like a radical. people aren't going to see him as a radical. and that i think is what is so critical here. plus, he has the chance to reintroduce himself to the bulk of the american people. i know it's shocking to this show, but most people have not been hanging on every word of the republican primaries. so after labor day, when the two gentlemen are on the stage, for mitt romney it's a tremendous opportunity to say this is who i am, to define himself against the backdrop of what's likely to be a flagging economy. actually, i think he has a real opportunity here. >> the big thing about romney is that he won't scare you. he won't scare you when you see him physically. he won't scare you when you hear him speak. he is not santorum. he is not gingrich. and when given the opportunity to drive the car, when he was governor the massachusetts, he drove it right down the middle of the road. and sometimes took a left-hand turn.

sometimes took a left-hand turn. and i think joe is absolutely right. the way to go after him, if you're the democrats, is not to try to inflict fear of romney into the electorate. it might be a better shot at saying it's thursday. do you know what mitt romney's positions are today? you know, that he just can't make up his mind on anything. >> and it's tough, mika, to have it both ways. the obama campaign has made this case for months now that mitt romney laid the ground work for the affordable care act. romney care leads to obama care. so if you're painting him that way as sort of a mushy moderate or even a left winger as governor of massachusetts, it's hard to go back to the other side and say he is a right-wing nut job. and i think mike is totally right. superficially, he doesn't come off as a crazy guy or a right-wing nut job in the way that perhaps some of the other candidates want to paint him. >> mika, i leave the studio for one day, and willie starts --

well, he starts, you know, using my label, calling me a right-wing nut job. i know what he was talking about. >> well apparent affection. >> it is a badge i wear proudly. >> yeah. that's not you. but ok. you talked about sort of a blank slate or a new opportunity for mitt romney. and it certainly is beginning to take shape after a tumultuous year on the campaign trail. newt gingrich is finally calling it quits. >> no. >> finally. the former speaker's staff says he will officially supend his presidential bid on tuesday and has offered to throw his bid behind mitt romney. he is waiting for tuesday so everyone can get together and be around him as he makes this declaration. here is the former house speaker yesterday. >> we're going to continue to move forward. but we're going to do so within a frame work where i think it's pretty clear that governor romney is going to be the nominee just based on the sheer weight of yesterday's evidence, and we need to work in a way

that we can find a way to focus on defeating obama, not focus on fighting ourselves. >> what? don't laugh. what's wrong with you? >> i just -- >> stop. >> the image of gingrich standing there in some restaurant, people trying to eat lunch. >> and he starts pontificating? >> who is this guy saying these things? >> joe wants me to stop. if he were here, i think he would kick me, but he's not. so texas governor rick perry had been supporting gingrich but with him leaving the race, governor perry is also now putting his support behind romney. in a statement -- i think this might actually be an endorsement. the former presidential candidate praised romney, an actual one, saying he has earned the nomination through hard work and strong organization. just saying he is behind him, joe. >> you know, i said some very tough things about newt throughout the campaign. i do -- i really do, knowing him and knowing his talent, going back to 1994, i think it's -- i actually do, i think it's --

this is -- it's sad looking back at how the campaign was run. i know a lot of people that have known newt gingrich for a long time believed in newt gingrich. he was a transformative figure in 1994. he turned the legislative branch back to the republican party for the first time in a generation. i believe the republican party has a shot to hold the legislative branch, parts or all of it, for a generation to come. and it started with this guy who unfortunately on the campaign trail just never seemed to find his voice and never seemed to know who he was. there was just such ideological inconsistency that it gave some of his followers vertigo. but as somebody that was part of the '94 class, and saw that remarkable potential that this guy had and has, truthfully it's

sort of sad looking back over this campaign and seeing how it was run. >> is there any -- and i'm looking for the positive here, what's the mark that he has made as this campaign moves forward? we always talked about how some of these candidates seemed almost like clowns, and a little bit too cartoon like. was newt -- did he have a serious impact on it, or was he one of them? >> well, i think newt gingrich probably hopes that this campaign is a footnote in his political history. he did -- obviously, we all remember the night he won in south carolina. one of the most conservative states in america. but also an establishment state. that really was quite a victory by newt gingrich. but just like the other candidates, he didn't have money. he didn't have organization. he didn't have what it took to keep up with mitt romney. and i think that took a lot of these guys out of their game. and i think it made them say

radical things to grab headlines, because they didn't have money to respond to romney. now, i've got to say, everybody talks about newt's superpac. the fact is that this race without super pacs would have been a lot closer, and newt gingrich i suspect would have stayed in it much longer. but we all remember newt winning south carolina. and then being absolutely demolished not by mitt romney's message, not by mitt romney's machine, but by mitt romney's money in the state of florida. they just absolutely destroyed him. and i think that caused some bitterness and resentment not only there but also in iowa a couple of weeks before that stayed with him throughout the campaign, that he just couldn't check in a way that he needed to check it. >> mark halperin, newt gingrich, his presence along with the other candidates along the way, helpful or hurtful to mitt romney in terms of building him? often these fights can make for a better candidate. and sort of griping between them. having said that, i'm not so sure in this case. >> well, look, every nominee gets tested. it looked for a time like romney

wouldn't be tested by anyone. i think he was helped by the testing. gingrich gave him the toughest test. the week between south carolina and florida was the existential moment where romney could have lost the whole thing. i think his campaign leaves two legacies that are pretty important. one is, we go back to the "wall street journal" editorial today, which i think is really important talking about how romney can win. gingrich talked about the importance of big ideas, that the country faces a transformational moment, really major challenges, and you couldn't nibble around the edges. he didn't break through with any of his big ideas but just putting on the table that you. >> ed to need to be big in this. clearly, he elevated the notion that the road to the white house leads through america's petting zoos. if you don't make that a major part of your platform, you're not going to have a chance. >> stop, stop, stop that. i will say this. when the history books are written about the 2012 campaign, and if mitt romney ends up being elected president of the united states, i will tell you there was one moment, and one moment

only, that the romney campaign, which has been arrogant from the beginning, it's been overconfident from the beginning, there was one moment when as mark halperin said they realized they faced an existential threat, and one time when they admitted to me and some other people that this could all go away in a minute, and it was the threat from newt gingrich after south carolina. after those polls closed up, i think if you talk -- if you put truth serum in everybody that was in mitt's inner circle, half of them would say, he wasn't going to survive. they were scared to death. and they had good reason to be scared to death. but of course again, the money in florida, outspending newt 10-1, destroying his reputation among florida conservative voters. i think that did it. and finished newt's campaign off for good. >> well, we'll watch him step down over the next few days. can't seem to do that quickly. senator marco rubio, widely considered a vice presidential

pick for mitt romney, is working to boost his national profile by outlining his foreign policy positions. in a speech at the brookings institute, the freshman senator criticized aspects of the obama administration's leadership on the issues overseas and outlined a call for cooperation on the global stage. >> our greatest successes have always occurred in partnership with other like-minded nations. now america has acted unilaterally in the past, and i believe it should continue to do so in the future when necessity requires. but our preferred option since the u.s. became a global leader has been to work with others to achieve our goals. >> when dealing with iran, rubio said the u.s. should be open to negotiations but added military action may ultimately be necessary to keep terrorists from obtaining nuclears. at the end of his remarks, a bit of an awkward moment.

take a look. >> more people are free to grow their economies, free to pursue their dreams, free to become prosperous. i left the last page of my speech. does anybody have my last page. did i leave it with you? i apologize. above all else, the 21st century provides us the opportunities for more freedom. >> joe, your take. i almost don't want to -- having said that, it could have been handled a little differently, like maybe knowing the content. . listen, it happens. i mean, it happens. some of us just can't talk for three hours without a script or teleprompter. some of us are normal human beings. listen, it was a good speech, first of all. i like marco an awful lot, and i think he has a bright future ahead of him. but i'm just going to say it. and why not? this is why people watch the show. let me set myself on fire politically. he's not ready to be vice president. just like barack obama wasn't ready to be president in 2008,

just like sarah palin wasn't ready to be on the national ticket in 2008. marco rubio is a great guy. he's got a compelling story. and my god, what a great demographic he will speak to on a national ticket some day. but he is not ready to be on a national ticket in 2012. and marco's basically said that. he has said he's not going to be vice president. even though he's backed off of it a little bit. i would just warn those who are fans of marco rubio, who think they are doing him a favor by pushing him center stage right after he's been elected to the united states senate, back off. you're going to hurt him in the long run because he's not ready to be in the oval office. he's not ready to be vice president of the united states. and that is -- >> you know, the discipline -- >> and that's not a knock on marco rubio. it is a political reality. i'm reading, and i'll say this really quickly, i'm reading a book on lbj right now, and there is no doubt about it, lbj was

able to do what lbj was able to do in 1965 and 1966 because he understood washington. he understood the senate. he understood the house. he understood how to get things ready. barack obama did not. if sarah palin were vice president, she would not. marco rubio right now does not. you have to have a little bit of experience. >> well, and i -- to add to what you were saying -- >> you have to have done brain surgery a few times before you work on my brain. >> joe, exactly. the discipline that someone like, for example, chris christie presented, when everybody was throwing everything at him, to know and be self aware about where you are in terms of being ready. that's very hard to have. and a lot of people are throwing things, money and opportunity, toward marco rubio. i think it's very difficult to have that type of discipline. richard haass, though, in essence, overall, though, the speech, it was good? >> i'll let others judge whether he was ready, but the speech was a thoughtful speech and right

down the middle. it was a very thoughtful speech about the need for america's leadership in the world, about the importance of partnership, that we can't go it alone. it was a very sober speech. very positive speech also. it wasn't filled with criticisms of the administration. it was much more aware, he thought the united states needed to go, and how the united states ought to get there. it was based on multilateralism, and he said without us, the world would be a much worse place, a messier place, and makes the case for american involvement. >> and, joe, fair enough that right now he is the one being pulled ought and put center stage at the brookings institution and other places. >> of course. and by the way, he is a united states senator. he has every right to go speak at brookings, to go speak at cato, at heritage. i miean, he has a very importan voice in the united states senate. there's no problem with him going there. it's just the talk surrounding

everything he does. you know, marco rubio eats a hot dog. what will it mean for mitt romney in 2012? i mean, it's just ridiculous talk. but let me ask you, richard haass, really quickly, though, where does marco fall? because we've had some conflicting signals. where does he fall on the neoconservative line? is he more like john mccain, or a bit more of a traditional conservative like, say, colin powell when it comes to foreign policy? >> well, yesterday's speech, joe, suggested he was trying to split the difference. he took a fairly tough approach towards syria in favor of intervention there and po it essentially intervention on iran. but again, the whole emphasis on partnerships is not the sort of thing traditionally you hear from neocons who are much bigger on america's need to act alone if need be. i thought it was an attempt by him to bridge the difference between the traditionalists and the so-called neocons in the republican party. >> good news. coming up, the stop stories

in the politico playbook. also, brian swietzer will join us. cokie roberts will be here with us. and we'll preview tonight's nfl draft with jon gruden. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. good thursday morning. head's up, anyone between nashville and knoxville. central tennessee to western tennessee, strong thunderstorms are heading your way at this hour. winds could gust up to 60 miles per hour. we've already had a lot of power outages and downed trees in southern portions of kentucky, and now those storms are rolling your way. give it about an hour before those storms hit knoxville. nashville, it looks like you should be just safe. forecast also includes a lot of rain this morning heading out of west virginia, through virginia, an umbrella day from roanoke to richmond, and up to washington, d.c. and our friends from columbus to parkersburg, west virginia, also dealing with rain. a bit of wet weather out there today. don't be fooled by the sunshine in new england. clouds will head your way with rain late today. it's a chilly start to the day

in new england. temperatures in the 30s in some areas. as far as the rest of the country goes, the amazing heat continues in texas. it was 104 in lubbock, texas, yesterday. the hottest temperature ever you've seen in april. san francisco and l.a., 60 degrees. you're watching "morning joe." beautiful sunrise. we're brewed by starbucks.

goodbye, newt. you fought hard and outlasted many of your rivals. we'll miss your fiery passion. your creepy charm.

and, yes, even your often terrifying sense of fun. when your staff quit, the money dried up, one person stayed by your side. your third loving wife, calista. >> conan in lipstick. wow. >> looked good. >> it's 29 past the hour. it's time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll just move right along. "the los angeles times." after a day of oral arguments, it looks like the supreme court may uphold a part of arizona's

immigration law. the court could be headed for a split agreement, allowing police to stop any individuals they suspect are in the country illegally. from "the washington post," the obama administration is giving greater leeway for how the u.s. military targets al qaeda suspects in yemen. it allows for the use of drone strikes to target fighters whose names are not yet known but are considered threats based on their patterns of behavior. three members of president george w. bush's team will join up. they'll be advising companies on doing business in emerging markets overseas. >> the "wall street journal," throughout american history, almost every generation has had substantially more education than that of its parents. that, though, is no longer true.

americans who turned age 30 in 2010 averaged just eight more months of schooling than their parents. in contrast, baby boomers born in 1955 averaged about two years more schooling than their parents. >> from "usa today," college football officials who oversee the gold championship series say they are considering several new formats to take effect in 2014. yesterday's talks centered around the possibility of a four-team playoff. the commissioners all agree that the current system is, quote, off the table, joe. >> there you go. >> off the table. >> you've always been in favor of that. >> i have. exactly. >> no doubt about it. richard haass, before we go to politico, the united states is relaxing its drone rules. and we did that in the papers. we saw it in "the washington post." what do you think about the fact that we're actually going to up

the ante on launching attacks into countries where we haven't declared war? >> it's really interesting. first of all, it tells us that places like yemen, where you have gotten rid of the old regimes, are you the new afghanistans. it's the wild west. you don't have state authority. libya could become one of these places. somalia. there could be half a dozen countries that could fit this. we don't want future afghanistans or iraq. so what we are looking at is a future with drones and special forces. a builtit of training, a little bit of narrow missions, and drones. and this is the future of the war on terrorism. it will mean an expanded set of targets. it will make some civil libertarians uncomfortable, but this is the only way i think people believe now that the united states can essentially keep these people on the defensive. >> all right. willie, time for politico. >> joining us now with a look at the playbook, the executive editor jim. let's continue with our coverage

of decision 2016 as we like to do around here. your front page, big banner story, clinton versus comeau in 2016. andrew comeau said this week he is not engaging in any 2016 talk, but if he does run, will he be met by hillary clinton? >> one of our reporters who lives up in new york and is wired into that community says that all of the donor class up in new york is talking about this, about comeau, clinton, and all the drama about who will run and what will other will do if the other person did get into the race. obviously, everyone has been focused on hillary clinton. we have polling showing she is one of the most popular politicians in america today. obviously, clintons always want to be running for president so people assume she will in 2016. but andrew comeau is one of the classes of rising stars. and he is certainly at the top of the list. up there with joe biden, hillary clinton, up there with governor o'malley. there's a lot of democrats who are thinking about their future.

and obviously, it's premature for people to make moves yet for 2016. it's not premature that once you get through the election that people are going to put much more serious thought into this and start to lay the ground work to be the heir apparent to barack obama or to run against a republican. >> you mentioned, jim, that number, "the washington post," abc poll has hillary clinton's favorability now at 65%, the highest she has ever enjoyed. if she lets it be known in democratic circles she wants to be the nominee in 2016, don't allow the other people like andrew cuomo sort of back off and let her go? >> that i have to. her favor ability rating is 56 65%, if someone had told you that five years ago, people would have said you're on drugs, willie. >> you were on drugs five years ago. >> that's true, but it's unrelated to this story. coming up, there's a simple rule at the ballpark, mike barnicle. you catch a ball, there's a little kid next to you --

>> give it to him. so cute. >> it happens all the time. >> give the kid the ball. >> one couple in arlington, texas, last night broke the rule, and then taunted the sweet little boy as he sobbed. >> what? >> by taking pictures with the ball. >> that's like abusive. what are they doing? according to the signs, ford is having some sort of big tire event. i just want to confirm a few things with fiona. how would you describe the event? it's big. no,i mean in terms of savings how would you sum it up? big in your own words, with respect to selection, what would you say? big okay, let's talk rebates mike, they're big they're big get $100 rebate, plus the low price tire guarantee during the big tire event. so, in other words, we can agree that ford's tire event is a good size? big big

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welcome back to "morning joe." we mentioned jon gruden will be on the show about an hour from now, talking about the nfl draft, which is tonight right across the street at radio city music hall. not a lot of drama in this one. everyone has known for about a year or so that andrew luck, the quarterback from stanford, would be the first pick in the draft. the colts confirmed this week they would take him. he will be the first to shake the commissioner's hand. this will be the eighth time in the last 10 drafts a quarterback has gone first. the redskins expected to use the second choice to take robert griffin iii off the board. they haven't picked a quarterback in the first round since 2005 when they took jason campbell 25th. and jon gruden will be here with us shortly to break it all down.

in baseball, the washington nationals entered yesterday tied with the dodgers for the most wins in major league baseball. in san diego yesterday, the nats offense going to work. rick ankiel doubled down the right field line to bring home a run. 1-0. the starting pitcher, jordan zimmerman, through the right side. rbi single scores ankiel. nats up 2-0 there. starting pitchers for washington had gone 22 innings without giving up a run going into this one. zimmerman did throw four shutout innings before the streak ends at 22 innings. still a franchise record. nationals win 7-2. yes, folks, the washington nationals have the best record in the national league. they are 14-4. the ballpark, long been a magical place for kids to go. >> so cute. >> you bring the glove. >> you take your little boy to the game. foul balls. >> hope upon hope. >> a moment to cherish for a lifetime.

>> and what's nice now over the last 15, 20 years or so, the players throw every foul ball up into the crowd. >> so cute. >> everybody seems to go home with the ball. foul ball comes to you, there's a little kid next to you, you give to them. very obvious. especially if the kid is crying. you would never taunt the kid and take pictures next to him while he's crying. >> who would do that? that's sick. >> let's go out to arlington, texas, last night. rangers and yankees. >> nice, heart-warming. >> this is great. >> tossed the ball. >> there's a little boy. i'm going to get the ball. i'm going to get the ball. >> what? >> oh, my god. they can't give it to the kid? >> the mother is trying to make them feel bad. >> no, no. don't take the picture. >> oh, don't do that. >> you are kidding me. >> come on. >> wait a minute. >> that's disgusting. >> that is so wrong. >> wait. >> that woman seriously kept it

to herself? she's not joking? >> she kept the ball. >> i thought they were joking. >> the young man did eventually get a baseball from somebody else. the rangers made sure the kid got a ball. >> pigs. >> by the way, we should mention the rangers beat the yankees 7-3. rangers have the best record in baseball. look at that sweet little face. >> they is awful. >> give him the ball. >> we tried to get an interview with the couple but they are unavailable because they are in hell. [ laughter ] >> exactly. >> we are sending a satellite truck to see if we can get there. >> let me ask you, willie, hall of shame, who is actually in the deeper ring of hell, that couple from last night or the guy who threw his girlfriend in front of the ball last year so she would get beaned in the head and not him? >> that was horrible. i saw an interview about two days after that happened. she said we are no longer dating. [ laughter ] >> i think it's the kid, though.

the crying of the 3-year-old. give him the ball, for heaven's sakes. >> the mother should have grabbed it out of that lady's hand. i would have. >> we'll be right back with mika's must-read opinion pages. ♪ hey, dad, you think i could drive? i'll tell you what -- when we stop to fill it up.

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fairness, hammering home the theme in the run-up to tax day. that doesn't necessarily make it a winning elect oral strategy. voters could agree that the system is on balance but failed to be persuaded that obama's prescription for fixing it would produce jobs or do enough to fix the problem. in fact, recent polls suggest this might be the greatest threat to obama's chances of winning a second term. though voters generally endorse obama's critique of the tax system, they say mitt romney is the better choice to manage the economy. josh, let's start right there with that last point. why do they fell that way? what has he said? why is he connecting in that way? >> i'm not sure it's so much that he is connecting as that three years in the obama presidency, the economy is still in rough shape. 3/4 of people think we are still in a region is. the point in the piece is this a source of angst for democrats. if you remember back four years ago in the last election, the country was pretty much smalling to pieces, we were in the middle

of a financial crisis. if you were a democrat, all you really needed to get elected was a pulse. you had to not be associated with george bush and republicans. this time it's a tougher argument to make, and the fact that obama is talking about raising taxes is making a lot of democrats leery. >> joe? >> josh, it seems that right now, the attitude of the electorate, and reading your piece and reading a lot of polls, fairness is great and fine, but bottom line it, we want to get america back to work. at the end of the day, the question always goes back to, what will stimulate the economy? what will create new jobs, right? >> yeah. and in the issue is a tough one when it comes to taxes and democrats, because historically, that's been a real problem for them. and here we are, and democrats are talking about the buffett rule, about raising taxes on the rich, which may be necessary but makes a lot of them nervous. jim cooper, the congressman from tennessee, told me you never open a political conversation with the t word. and that's the real danger i

think that they run. >> richard haass? >> josh, do you see any possible consequences or lessons from the elections in france, the anti-incumbency mood or anything that has -- you know, if you're in the white house that would make you nervous? >> yeah. i think it does. i think it's exactly that. it's the anti-incumbency mood. the fact that after three years of grinding recession that there's a danger that people are going to get fed up and simply want a change. i think that's one reason why the obama campaign is working so hard to present or to paint mitt romney as an unacceptable alternative because a lot of voters ever going to be thinking, gee, i'm not really happy with my life, i'm not happy with where the economy is. but in order to fire the guy in the white house, you have to have an acceptable alternative. >> mark halperin. >> josh, what do you see right now as the biggest peril, just on a political basis, for the president? >> well, it seems to me the biggest peril is this conversation about taxes. and, you know, if you look at it

in isolation, as you know, mark, buffett rule polls very well. i think the question is, does that mean it's necessarily a good electoral strategy? are people going to think just because i'd like to see the rich pay more in taxes, is that enough to lift the economy out of recession and get things moving again, or do i want to turn to this guy, this turn-around artist, this guy who spent his life in the private sector, mitt romney, and maybe give that guy a chance? he seems to be a businessman. maybe he could do a better job. >> we heard on tuesday night from mitt romney in his celebration speech after he won the five primaries, him using the fairness argument as you touched on a little bit earlier. is that a successful argument? can we co-opt that from president obama who has made that one of the cores of his campaign so far? >> i don't know if it's a successful argument. for romney, i think it's a necessary argument because he spent the last couple of months talking about what a severe conservative he is and really doing his best to ax peel ppeal conservatives on the far right.

now he has a different audience, the general electorate, and he has to push back against the obama campaign's effort to paint him as this wild-eyed rich guy who is only in it for his cronies and isn't somebody that the middle class can trust. >> josh green, thank you very much. up next, our emotional farewell to the gingrich campaign. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ah, welcome to hotels.com. i get it...guys weekend. yeah! if you're looking for a place to get together, you came to the right place. because here at hotels.com, we're only about hotels. yeah! yeah! noooo. yeah! finding you the perfect place is all we do. welcome to hotels.com

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is it time, willie? >> is it time? >> thanks, mike. time for some news you can't use. as we mentioned at the top of the show, we got word yesterday that newt gingrich will now end his campaign. he'll do it sometime next week. we thought this a good time to let celine dion say goodbye. >> you're going to be the nominee? >> i'm going to be the nominee. i don't think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable than left-wing social engineering. ♪ that is how i know you go on ♪ >> i got bit by a penguin. we will have the first prominent base on the moon. >> are you calling mitt romney a liar? >> yes. >> you're calling mitt romney a liar? >> well, you seem shocked by it. but yes. >> i am not going to compete with obama in singing because

i'm not running for entertainer in chief. >> she says you asked her, sir, to enter into an open marriage. would you like to take some time to respond to that? >> no. but i will. a destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media, and i am appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that. [ applause ] ♪ near, far ♪ wherever you are >> not all this petty baloney but the really big choices. so it's all baloney. total baloney. what does obama baloney look like? the whole left wing. it used to be pious baloney. but now it's unionized baloney. the schools ought to pay local students to take care of the schools. >> did you owe half a million dollars to a jewelry company at one point? >> we had a revolving fund.

>> what does that mean? >> that we have a resolving fund. >> you're an embarrassment to our party. >> i'm sorry you feel that way. >> why don't you get out before you make a bigger fool of yourself? >> i'm sorry you feel that way. ♪ my heart will go on and on >> there you have it. as everyone who watches this show knows, those farewells that we do for each candidate as they leave the race are nothing more than a reason for me to get celine dion's "titanic" theme into the show. coming up, brian schweitzer will join us. also, political analyst, the great cokie roberts joining us on "morning joe." we'll be right back. havi ng a n irregular heartbeat havi called atrial fibrillation ng a puts you at 5 times greater risk of stroke. don't wait. go to afibstroke.com for a free discussion guide to help you talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. that's afibstroke.com.

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this just in to cnn. we have confirmed that newt gingrich will indeed drop out of the presidential race next week. [ applause ] >> no. not yay. anyway, he announced he was dropping out next week. that is so gingrich. today i am calling off this grotesque and hopeless charade of a campaign seven days from now. gingrich 2016! >> so i'm not the only one thinking it's a little weird to make an announcement about you're dropping out a week later. like, what, to prepare to drop

out? >> some would call that subtlety. >> that's not subtle. that's really unself aware. welcome back to "morning joe." richard haass still with us. joining the table, senior news analyst for npr and political commentator and analyst for abc news, cokie roberts. cokie, great to have you back on the show. >> great to be here. >> am i being overly -- >> that newt is saying next week? >> yes. >> maybe he's hoping that everybody will come and say, oh, no, newt, no, no, you can't do it, newt, stop. >> i don't think that's going to happen. >> i don't either. but a guy can dream. >> it could be. but as the race really starts to get down to two, it already has been, we have a new national poll out this morning from fox news showing president obama and mitt romney in a dead heat. each with 46%. mark halperin, overall, is that surprising to you that it's so tight? >> no. governor romney -- three things have happened. one, he is out of the nominating

process. two, he has not made that many mistakes of late. and three, he's really done a good job of making this election about the obama economy for the last couple of weeks, and that is a winning message for him as people start to meet him and hear about the economy. if there's a path for him to win, that's it. >> if you think of mitt romney versus president obama, what is his path? >> the big challenge is the electoral college. he needs a winning message in some states like ohio and florida where the economy is actually getting a little bit better. and i think it's going to have to be as again as the "wall street journal" editorial says and as newt gingrich would say, he's got to make it about big things. he's got to say the big issues on the economy, he is better equipped to handle it. >> absolutely. not simply we have to balance the budget, not this or that on spending, there has to be a vision for growth. this country can't thrive only growing at 2%. that is the message. and neither candidate yet has

really put forward a large idea for how we're going to get this country growing again, i.e., working again. if mitt romney can do that, his chances are stronger. >> his problem at the moment is the republican brand. it's not really him as much, although by the time the campaign is over, it might be him. but the republicans are not fare language in any of the polls in terms of who do you trust more to fix things. and the ryan budget, the paul ryan budget in congress, which is very arcane for most people, can be characterized as being something that's mean to the little guy. and that could be a problem for him. >> and i think that's where -- actually perfect transition to this next item, because in an interview with "rolling stone" magazine, president obama illustrated his campaign's new strategy of trying to paint mitt romney not as a flip flopper but as too extreme for the country. the president says in part, quote, you have a republican party and a presumptive nominee who believes in drastically

rolling back environmental regulations, collective bargaininging rights, an approach to deficit reduction in which taxes are cut further for the wealthiest americans and spending cuts are entirely borne by things like education or basic research or care for the vulnerable. i don't think that their nominee is going to be able to suddenly say everything i have said for the last six months i didn't mean. i'm assuming that he meant it. and, cokie, back to the ryan budget, does that play into a narrative they could go with here? >> sure. and that's exactly what the president is doing here. what he's hoping desperately to do is make it all about the other guys and not about him. and of course the republicans aren't going to let that happen. they are going to -- i mean, it would be political malpractice. they will make sure that, you know, if they can, to try to make it a referendum on barack obama's stewardship of the economy. >> on the economy, you equipped earlier that he doesn't know what his message is, mitt romney. >> i think that's right. >> so having watched closely and

analyzed these thing it's. >> don't say how many. >> no. your experience is so valuable. >> vast. >> and mine too. but at this point, is it problematic that he has no message? >> well, he'll come up with one. i think he'll come up with one in time for him to get out there, you know, at the debate season and all of that. i think he'll have something, whether it's anything that anybody either believes or thinks is a good idea is another question altogether. >> i think he might have an economic message. that's his strong suit. but i think he has spent the last six to eight months being very protective of where he stands on a bunch of issues because he's had to feed the right-wing of his party, as he has danced through these primaries. and i wouldn't be surprised if ultimately his message hinges on whatever the president has done for the economy over the last three years, not fast enough, not good enough. i think it might come down to

that. >> and whatever the unemployment and growth rate is at that moment. >> gasoline. >> all right. and the president makes that point himself, assessing hisson campaign. this is think itting the interview. he described where the road to the second term will not be an easy one. in part he says this. now the burden is going to be on me. it's going to be to describe for the american people how the progress we've made over the past three years, if sustained, will actually lead to the kind of economic security they are looking for. there's understandable skepticism because things are still tough out there. you still have an unemployment rate that is way too high. you have folks whose homes are underwater because the housing bubble burst. people are still feeling the pitcher from high gas prices. the fact of the matter is, times are still tough for too many people and the recovery is not as robust as we'd like, and that's what will make it a close election. it's not because the other side has a particularly persuasive theory in terms of how they are going to move this country forward. is that fair, mark? >> it's awesomely honest.

that is what the president actually thinks about the election, and i applaud him for saying it on the record like that. >> doesn't often the truth work for politicians? haven't we lost -- >> it can. >> i think it works. i think the truth works. >> i'm all for issues being front and center, but the fact is a lot of this is going to be about personality. and part of why some republicans like rush limbaugh lashed out at the president's appearance with jimmy fallon is because they are threatened by the fact that it was -- it showed his human side and his awesome personality in a way that mitt romney is still going to have to compete with. i asked a democratic strategist yesterday, what would you do if you were mitt romney's campaign manager? and he says find venues where he can go and show his personality in an attractive light. he's still got to do that because the president in that interview was forthcoming, and honest, and relaxed in a way that romney just is not. >> and ann romney, ann romney,

ann romney. she actually does have a personality. >> ok. >> her personality and style will matter, because at the end of the day you're voting for someone you have to live with for four years. and romney's challenge is to make americans feel comfortable with him. he's not high. he's not radical. i think it's too casual and informal. the times are too serious for that. it's actually someone you feel this is a grownup, and he can handle the challenges. >> and take care of us. >> i think that's a very sensible way to vote. you don't know what the issues are going to be to come up. we didn't know in 2000 that the country would be attacked in 2001 or in '88 that the berlin wall would come down in '89. so you sort of do a gut check and you say, do i think this guy, and it is guy, always, is going to be the person who i trust most to make the right decision over the next four years? or do i at least trust him more than the other guy? and i think that's a very reasonable way to vote. >> again, if people see his true personality, he will have a

better chance. he is a much more likeable, relaxed, funny, sensitive guy than he's able to come forward with so far in the public stage. >> we're going to move on to senator marco rubio and also richard haass' latest piece. but you sort of said wincingly, it's always a guy. >> it is. >> do you look forward and do you think it's coming that there is a woman? >> oh, the number of years that i have said -- >> do you know how practical our policies would be? they'd make a lot of sense. >> well, yeah. there is that. >> senator marco rubio. we'll just move on. widely occurred a vice presidential pick for romney is working to up his public persona on the global stage. >> our greatest successes have always occurred in partnership with other like-minded nations. now america has acted

unilaterally in the past, and i believe it should continue to do so in the future when necessity requires. but our preferred option, since the u.s. became a global leader, has been to work with others to achieve our goals. >> can i say i feel old? i think i'm going to. when dealing with iran, rubio says the u.s. should be open to negotiations but added military action may ultimately be necessary to keep tehran from obtaining nuclear weapons. at the end of his speech, there was a little bit of an awkward moment. take a look. >> more people are free to grow their economies, free to pursue their dreams, free to become prosperous. i left my last page of the speech. does anybody have my last page? did i leave it with you? i apologize. above all else, the 21st century provides us the opportunities for more freedom. >> it was a good staff to have

that there. he was introduced by independent senator joe lieberman, a one-time democrat who praised rubio's bipartisan on foreign policy. richard haass, on the content, you liked the speech. >> very much. it was a bipartisan speech. it wasn't slashing. it wasn't particularly critical. it was quite centrist. it made the case that the world would be much worse off were it not for america's continued leadership, and it said the path to leadership is not unilateralism. it's cooperative, it's multilateral, it's working with others, it's partnerships when at all possible. he did call for more intervention in syria. having a nuanced policy towards iran. but it was a thoughtful, centrist speech about foreign policy. >> mike? >> usually all day, every day, all we do is think about the united states and our politics here. and yet you just referencing, you know, the world stage, you've got an election coming up in france. you've got china potentially in political turmoil overbur a

burgeoning scandal there. what's happening in the world politically? >> 2012 is a year of extraordinary political transition. you mentioned the united states. we have had russia. who knows about france. egypt, greece. >> greece could throw the whole european debt crisis back into our faces. >> enormous amount going on. and it's so important, even though virtually nothing has been said up to now in our campaign about the world, the world can intrude. what happens in europe might have more to do with the world economy than anything barack obama can conceivably do over the next six months. he has no influence over it. he could ok 10 keystone pipelines between now and the election, it would not affect the price of gasoline at the pump. what we see is this world that will have tremendous consequences for the election, and certainly for whoever wins, to how he is going to be able to govern. what's interesting to me is how little influence we actually have over it. >> what is project syndicate? >> it's an international syndicate i write for that publishes articles around the

world, maybe 40, 50, 60 newspapers around the world, and i write for them every few months. >> so your latest piece in project syndicate is quited, to the victors go the foils, and you talk about the numbers of elections and political transitions slated for 2012 and the challenges every country's leaderships will face. i'm going to read an excerpt of it. you write in part, a surprising number of elections and political transitions is scheduled to occur over the coming months. an incomplete list includes russia, china, france, the united states, egypt, mexico, and south korea. these governments and the individuals who will lead them face many of the same challenges. three stand out. these three trends, loss of economic and physical autonomy, the diffusion of information technology, and slower growth against a backdrop of older populations will create enormous political challenges in virtually every country. demands are mounting at the same time as ability of governments to satisfy them is diminishing.

for citizens and leaders alike, tough times lie ahead. that's saying a lot. also putting us in the category of a lot of countries that are struggling in a big way. >> these trends, whether it's globalization, technological diffusion, the fact that our populations have so many expectations from government that increasingly we can't meet, it's true, it affects us, the europeans, the japanese, it affects everybody. it's going to make governing really tough. it's one of the reasons we are also beginning to see the gradual rise of extremism. much more nationalistic, popularistic. the trends are tough for government. and you talked before about whether the president should become more honest. it's very tough to say, this is a difficult situation for me. but that's the honest truth. >> what's the ripple effect? if sarkozy loses in the runoff, and the incoming president decides to reboot the economic agreements that are in place in europe as cokie mentioned,

greece, spain, portugal, all on a potential bankruptcy stage, what's the ripple effect of that? >> well, if mr. hollande wins, he says he's going to do that. the ripple effect for europe is disarray on a scale we haven't seen, the germans versus the rest of europe. europe begins to unravel. for us, the ripple effects ever enormous. europe is 1/4 of the world's economy. europe already in recession. if they go further into recession, it has ripple effects for us and china. china's ability to maintain political stability is based upon its ability to export in part to europe. that will shrink. it will have consequences for the entire world. >> and egypt, which is also having an election that could be really very disruptive. >> and whoever wins that election, economic disarray. almost like a company running out of cash. egypt has a burn rate. foreign exchange is fast disappearing. investment is not coming in. tourists aren't coming in. this is 1/3 of the arab world on

the economic cliff. >> romney's wheelhouse? >> well, he's going to have to find a foreign policy voice. i think he is still opportunistic on a lot of these issues. but it is what the white house worries about more than anything else, more about that stuff than mitt romney. >> cokie, this conversation started with marco rubio's speech at the brookings institution. is he ready, given what richard laid out, as the challenges that lie ahead? >> well, ready to be vice president? no. not much of a job. but if he had to then step into the presidency, i suppose that would be another thing. >> did you just say that? >> we have the greatest vice president in the history of the world, joe biden. >> i'm very fond of the vice president. but the fact is that he give a good speech. he did not have a good presentation. he looked very young and very halting. and then of course that bad last moment on the last page. that's a rough one. >> i need to tell you what my mother said about my brother's job. cokie roberts, stay with us.

still ahead, the latest cover of "time" magazine. also, we'll speak to jon gruden about tonight's nfl draft. up next, montana governor bill schweitzer will join the conversation. but first -- >> it was nice and beautiful weather in montana yesterday. not so much today. yesterday, 82 in billings. montana was looking nice, but nothing compared to west texas. let me repeat this. lubbock, texas, 104. it was the hottest ever april day in west texas. we have never had a hotter temperature than this in the month of april. today, it will be a bit cooler. possibly up around 100. but i think it peaked out yesterday. just look at the summer heat already in the dallas area. we have a lot of rain this morning down around west virginia and virginia. d.c. will duck in and out of showers and storms during the day. eventually some of that wet weather will move up to the northeast later on this afternoon and this evening of the we still have a chance of more stormrmrmrmrmrm

( bell ringing ) everhing that i' gained ie has been because of the teachers and the education that i had. they're just part of who i am. we all go through a stage in our life where we'd like to do something important, and i was given th tools to do that. 'cause i was fortunate enough to have some great math teachers that were incredibly inspiring. he told us all about how mountains form and rivers she'd convinced me that there was no limit

to what we could learn. i don't think i'd be here today had i not had a wonderful science teacher. ms. moseo was her name. dr. gilmor i mean, he could teach. he would never give up on any of us. a teacher can make a huge difference in a child's life. she had a big impact on me in applying engineerskill sets make a better world. she was very inspiring for me. she made learning, of all things calculus, fun. i learned a lot from her, not just about math but about life. hello mrs. quinn, and thanks. thanks mrs. snyder. julie, thank you so much for inspiring me. thank you mr. da thank you mrs. mullalond. thank you dr. newfield. you had a big impact on me.

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[ female announcer ] introducing xfinity streampix. am your favote movies and full seasons of shows instantly on any screen. find o more online. ♪ >> now is not the time to make school more expensive for our young pele. [ applause ] >> oh, yeah. >> what the -- the president's slow jamming the news on late night. so romney is this year's reagan. obama is this year's clinton. wait a minute. normally, brian williams slow jams. romney is running to replace obama. obama is running to replace

brian williams. and brian williams wants my job. this has to end! mr. president, you're the president. u don't have to do this [ bleep ] anymore. so i guess this is the two campaigns we're left with. obama-romney. there we go. going to be slim pickings materialwise. >> ron paul has promised to keep going until the convention. >> help us, ron paul. you're our only hope. very good. here with us now, the democratic governor of montana, governor brian schweitzer. good to have you with us. he has presents. which i'm excited about. very quickly, though, the slow jamming. this president at this point, is he -- is jon stewart potentially kind of right? does he need to do that, or is that his sweet spot? that looked funny. >> i think he can do that. he is attractive when he does that. he reminds people of what they like aut him.

and he has gotten a bit aloof and removed, and to get back in there with the late night comedian is something people respond to. >> it's funny. i'm always two days behind on funny things because i watch everything on our show. ok. what do you have? and then we'll talk montana. >> this is montana. >> right. you brought it for us. >> well, look, montana now has a nonstop flight from newark to boozman. and so to kick this off, we have a company, a trucking company, named watt kins and shepherd, and they have a dozen big rigs with the murals. they are delivering innew york city. i rode in a truck yesterday and i went down to times square and i was giving these things away. these are mountain goats from glacier national park. cokie, this is yours. we have some huckleberry jam. >> i'll take that. >> taffy. >> that's not healthy, barnicle.

>> look what we have here. montana jerky. >> wait. >> the best. >> is that red meat? >> yeah. >> let me see it. >> no, no. you can have the -- >> buffalo meat? >> you can have the tea. there you go. >> there you go. >> cokie, you can have some tea. >> i like the basket. >> we were giving these things away in times square. and people were very suspicious. when you show up and say, hi, i'm the governor of montana. would you like something of nothing? >> oh, sure you are. >> they walked on. and then there was a guy that looked like he was from montana. so i walked towards him. he was wearing a cowboy hat, had a guitar, and no pants. >> that's the naked cowboy. >> it was something. i thought maybe he lost his pants in the cattle market. but, no, he didn't know a cow from a bull and told me he makes a living standing around almost naked. >> yes. >> only in new york city. >> he is a deputy mayor. >> ok. >> how is that, mika?

montanalicious? >> it's good but i'm not sure it's healthy. i don't know. >> you could use a buffalo steak. >> is this like a slim jim? >> it's good. >> it seems to me that everybody i know is going to montana all the time. so why are you having to drum up all of this and give away things? >> well, 10.5 million people visit montana every year. but of course you've got to fly through minneapolis or seattle or salt lake city. and we have got an advertising program. you know, montana, we run the seventh largest budget surpluses for the seventh year in a row. we cut taxes, invested more in education, and every single one of our budgets was the largest budget surplus in history. tourism is a big part of our business. so 10.5 million people. i want 11 million people to visit this next year. >> and we want some of them to come from new york directly to boseman. >> how many people are going there to find work? >> our unemployment is about

10%. but in western montana, we can't get enough workers or homes. montana and north dakota are increasing our oil production like nobody's business. in fact, there is more oil in alberta, montana, north dakota, and saskatchewan than there is in saudi arabia. so we will be energy independent with american oil and gas, american coal, american wind, and we'll get there soon. >> why haven't we done it before? >> well, the balkan is kind of a new discovery, with horizontal and fracturing we have brought oil from a geologic instruct that you a -- structure that 10 years ago didn't produce very much. with technology 10 years from now, we might have 100 billion barrels. the game changer really is natural gas. we need to quickly convert our cars and big rigs, our trucks, all across america, to natural gas because we have a 150-year supply of natural gas. >> boone pickens.

>> i was the first governor to sign on. it works. >> you are supporting president obama's re-election, aren't you? >> i am. >> people don't talk much about winning montana. why can't your candidate win your state? >> well, a democrat hasn't gotten to 50% in montana since johnson. that's a pretty high bar to get to. >> how did you? >> well, you know, there are positions that national democrats take that are about as popular as a tooth ache. >> like what? >> guns. in montana, gun control is i will control yours and i'll control mine. and of course, energy. i'm a passionate supporter of all energy supplies coming from the united states. i want to break our addiction to foreign oil as quickly as possible. >> everything about your state makes sense given where we need to go and what we need to do with our economy. we're talking about energy, jobs, you have it. what do you think of washington and how it's operating right now? >> plum broken. >> plum broken. you know, actually, what's

interesting, the other day there was a scandal brewing in mexico because apparently walmart had given some money to some politicians some $20 million. they gave $1 billion in the united states. the corrupt foreign practices act apparently just puts a monopoly on these corporations. they have to give the money to the politicians in the united states. they can't give it to anybody else. we actually have the most corrupt system in the world. noplace else in the world do corporations give money directly to the politicians and report it. and so, listen, probably the best thing we can do for the country is every member of congress announce tomorrow they are not going to run for re-election. they are going to step aside for one term, and then they can get the work done. because they really only care about getting re-elected. and we have tough work to do. >> we need term limits so badly. >> you have to say no to some people. you have to balance budgets and you do that by saying no to some of your best friends. >> the problem is they are not worried about getting re-elected in the general election. they are worried about the primaries. and we just saw that again this

week in pennsylvania, where two of the more moderate democrats who do work across the aisle were defeated. and defeated by people on the left. so, you know, we are seeing it in the republican primaries on the right. so that's where the problem is. it's not in the general election. >> far left and far right. that's where they get the money. that's where the contributions come from. and you're exactly right. 90% of these members of congress, they will lose re-election either being challenged on the left or on the right, not at the middle. >> all right, governor brian schweitzer. thank you. i have to say, it's kind of addictive. is that bad? >> come on to montana. >> i'm coming. i'm going to rock creek ranch. i'm going to do it. it sounds like a fun family thing. >> montana is beautiful. >> beautiful, right? >> you have to get this down. the 10-2. we'll take you where they have a fish in a barrel and teach you there first. >> i can fish just fine, thank

you. you take me out to the river, i'll take care of it. >> fly fishing on the yellow stone river. you'll love it. >> really? i'm going to do it. cokie roberts, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. still ahead, in search of the real bob dylan. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ dave, i've downloaded a virus. yeah. ♪ dave, where are we on the new laptop? it's so slow! i'm calling dave. [ telephone rings ] [ male announcer ] in a small business, technology is all you. that's why you've got us. at the staples pc savings event, for a limited time get up to $200 off select computers. staples. that was easy.

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i was watching -- mitt was taking a victory lap last night, and i was watching him, and i thought, he gets a lot of criticism because he's kind of stiff, he's sort of cold, sort of aloof. and i thought, now, wait a minute. let's look on the bright side of this. mitt romney, honest to god, i think is an inspiration to kids all over this country who sadly were born without a personality. [ laughter ] >> i mean, the sky is the limit. welcome back. up next on "morning joe" at 35 past the hour, rick stengel is joining us to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. keep it right here. we'll be right back. [ man ] hmm. a lot can happen in two hundred thousand miles...

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a picture of washington, d.c., the nation's capital. joining us now from "time" magazine, managing editor and my boss, rick stengel. >> be good, hal prin. >> here to reveal one of our favorite covers of the year. >> thank you, mark. it's delightful to be introduced by you. mika has huckleberry jam on her fingers. >> mark halperin just made me eat huckleberry jam on top of beef jerky. >> i didn't make you. i lured you. >> and now to the cover of "time" magazine. >> it's one of my favorite covers. it's a very powerful images of the last days of osama bin laden. the one-year anniversary is coming up of the killing of osama bin laden. and we have two exclusive and extraordinary stories. one by peter bergen who has made

his life covering osama bin laden. he is one of our contributors. and it's a piece about life, the last days osama bin laden. what it was like for him in that compound. peter is one of the only journalists to actually visit the compound. and it was razed to the ground three days afterwards. and the second piece, which is extraordinary, is by graham allison, professor of course at the kennedy school. >> i'm reading it right now. >> one of the most distinguished historians of presidential decision making. he was given access to the white house, the defense department, the cia, to look at the decision making process that led up to the decision to kill bin laden. and it's an extraordinary story. all kinds of new details that people didn't know about. the fact that they kept the information about bin laden into a small group of six people for months leading up to it, the fact that some of the people on the president's national security team, many of them, maybe even most of them, voted

against the procedure of sending in the s.e.a.l.s to kill bin laden. it was a very high risk, high reward choice by the president. >> i would just say, mika, that graham allison, who is a terrific guy, having nothing to do with the piece in "time" magazine, there is more information, more reporting, in this piece on that particular raid than anything i've read anywhere so far. >> and he spoke to over 100 people for it. he had the help of the white house and the national security council. and so this is just a lot of stuff. it's just amazing material in there. >> who was against the raid and why? >> basically, at the end of the day, there were three choices. there was a predator missile attack. there was a b-2 bomber attack. and then an on the ground attack with special forces. either working with the pakistanis or not. and both the secretary of defense, bob gates, and the vice president, voted against the use

of s.e.a.l.s. they thought it was too dangerous to have men, boots on the ground. >> general cartwright. >> and general cartwright, who is one of obama's favorites, and had been involved in this from the very beginning also pretty much thought it was too risky. the president, interestingly enough, made the decision partially based on the fact that a missile attack or a bomber attack, you wouldn't know whether you really got him. you would be depending on the pakistanis to do the legwork to figure it out. and then you'd have this big question mark. and you also wouldn't get any of the security material that they presumed would be there at the compound. so he made this choice. and of course, as we all know, it almost came to grief because that first helicopter crashed. a lot of that is also in peter's story, new information about that. so it's really a great story. >> mark halperin. >> one year ago, remember at the white house correspondent's dinner, which is this weekend, the president gave a great performance at the dinner while this thing was underway.

talk more about why graham allison, who is an academic, served in administrations in both parties, why was he able to produce this reporting when other people could not? >> he had -- he is a great figure in american scholarship. and scholarship about presidential decision making. he has worked for both republican and democratic secretaries of defense. he is an honest broker. and i think the white house must have felt, let's look at this decision making process. because even in grahama's piece, he talks about the decision making process about whether to send more troops into afghanistan he said was a flawed process. and so he said, i think the white house wanted to look at how was our decision making process here, what went right, what went wrong, so that in the future when these kinds of situations arise they'll be ready. so he was given unprecedented access to people and candor from all of these people he talked to. >> there's so many interesting nuggets in there. one of the elements that's in graham allison's piece is general mcchrystal's report to

the president about the status of operations in afghanistan, which the president asked general mcchrystal, who was then running the theater, to prepare this report. he prepares a 66-page report. and just as it is handed to the president, it's in "the washington post" and "the new york times." >> yes. see, when the -- the day that leon panetta walked into the oval office to say, you know, mr. president, there's this compound, and the person who lives there is osama bin laden's trusted courier, and there's a tall guy who walks around the court yard every once in a while. we think it might be osama bin laden. from that moment, i mean, there were six or seven months that passed until the raid, but they kept that information to a tiny group of six people. because one of the things that wil allison says in the piece that one of the parts of the decision making process is who do you tell? because in washington, everybody you tell can potentially leak it. if this information leaked, the most vital information to national security, that would have been a disaster.

in fact, when they had a meeting with congress right after the raid and to tell them that osama bin laden had been killed before it was publicly announced, it leaked in five minutes. >> just a wild swing, before we go to break, you have 10 questions with julia lou louis-dreyfus, which was delightful. >> she talks about how she hates to go to weddings because people want to her to do the elaine dance. and the show is gareat, i hear. >> yeah, i'm going to check that out. the new cover of "time" magazine, the last days of osama bin laden. up next, the youngest coach ever to win a super bowl. jon gruden is joining us ahead. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. e announcer] if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze... ♪

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intercepted! that will be returned for a touchdown. touchdown, usc! >> on the backside, three wide, in a 27-27 game? what are you doing? >> not the right thing, obviously.

>> don't ever throw the venus on a spider three wide banana. look at the reaction. you know you're late. you know you're doing the wrong thing. you're like a 6-year-old with your hand caught in the cookie jar. >> that is coach gruden. that was the guy who will be the number one pick of the draft about, i don't know, 12 hours from now, andrew luck in the hot seat on espn's "gruden qb camp." >> he watches the show, willie. >> does he really? >> he is an early riser, i know that. >> i learn a little something every day. >> coach gruden heredraft. he's a super bowl winning coach. >> good to have you on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> to get into a film room and watch hours of tape with a guy, you love that. >> it's a sick life, i know. i love watching these quarterbacks. the decisions they make. the offenses they are asked to execute. it's a critical decision in

football. football is really all i have in my life, unfortunately. >> it's a small outlook. >> what kind of social life do you have, coach. i see you in a darkroom, get some fast food. >> i'm married, i have three sons. they keep me busy. i get up early because i'm excited to get up and watch football. there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. these quarterbacks proved that. >> my father likes to watch football because it's all about strategy and war. >> it is? >> yeah. >> it's got an intellectual quality to it. >> nfl football is much more complex than war. >> really? >> you watch the coach with the quarterbacks, the complexity of the things you run them through. all of a sudden they explain why they didn't throw on time to a tight end going across the middle. what is on your ipod? why do you do stuff like that?

>> you want to learn about what makes them tick. it's not just football. you have to be able to throw the ball against cover. reset and make plays. you know all these things, mika. these are important things. i also want to be around a kid that can lead a football team with the intangibles that you have to discover by being with somebody. we had a special group of guys this year i enjoyed. >> obviously, going 1-2, they are great. if you had doubts about them, going from college stars to nfl stars what would the doubts be? >> the only doubt i have with luck is changing systems. he's been in the west coast offensive stanford. he's in a comfort zone. now, he goes to indianapolis, he's going to learn a new offense. it's a different teaching. he's got to responds with a new setting. with rb 3, it's about getting in a huddle. it's up tempo as baylor.

now he's got to transition to a controlled style of offense. it will be an adjustment period. it didn't bother cam newton much. >> is there anything as a can't miss quarterback? >> it's too hard. the media is too hard t. fan's expectations are too hard. you get hit hard. it's a pressure packed position. i don't think it's fair to say you are a can't miss prospect. luck is close. >> explain what it's like to come into the league as a quarterback. they get the dumb jock thing. you are a quarterback, you get a binder or several that thick. intellectually, what you have to do to play quarterback in the nfl. >> it's tough. you have to know the personnel. who not to throw against, who to throw against. know your own personnel. just the language these players have to spit out in the huddle,

flip right double x jet -- as soon as you see the corner you have to throw a sight adjustment. all the things mika likes to talk about. >> that's what i was thinking when you were saying it. >> she's looking off to safety. she's always talking about that. >> i'm studying you. i think you're interesting. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. in a strange, frightening kind of way. >> are there going to be trades predraft? >> i think there's going to be a bunch of trades. there's a new cba. it's not as expensive to have the number one or two pick. the teams are going to be willing to move up in the draft. i think you will see recklessness tonight. the jets are rumored to be one of those teams. >> what is their move? >> they want the big back at alabama. trent richardson that would look nice in green down here. they have to give up a lot to get there. >> he's flown up since the end of the college season. he's up three or four in the mock drafts.

what did people see in him that they didn't see? >> he's an all purpose back. he's a punishing, angry runner. he can punt the ball and return kicks. he gives the team a physical identity and a guy to lean on and feature in offense. >> you talked about the complexity of the game. you can pick up a sense of it from watching espn with the quarterbacks and watching the game themselves. is there a college program in the country that can sort of get someone a quarterback or another player attuned to the speed of the game in the nfl? is there anything that approximates the speed? >> probably not. stanford, alabama, where you see nfl coaches coaching and practicing with nfl principles. those are the easiest films to look at. but, the speed of the game at the prolevel is different than at the amateur level for obvious reasons. >> give us a sleeper.

somebody nobody is talking about this morning. we know luck and griffin. quarterback, you are a quarterback guy. someone that we ought to look out for? >> here is my sleeper. russell wilson. he's at wisconsin. everybody knows who he is. he's a special young man. he's 5' 11." he's going to be a sleeper. >> what about hill? >> i like tanny hill. he shot up the charts. it's supply and demand. if you don't have a quarterback, you don't have a chance. he'll come off in the top ten. great athlete but a work in progress. >> you mentioned the jets. if you are the head coach of the jets, you have sanchez, tim tebow, you know the first time the jets go three and out, they are chanting for tebow. how do you handle that situation? what do you do there? >> i get a wide receiver to throw the ball to. i think the jets need a wide

out. it's going to be chaos. it's what people want. they want controversy to survive these days, it seems. you are going to have plenty of that with tebow and sanchez. they are two of the nicest young guys you will ever meet. if anybody can work it out, they can. >> would you have brought tebow in if you were rex ryan? >> i would take tebow on my team no matter who i got. he's a winner and we'll find something for him to do. sthak was the mentality to bring him here in the first place. can you imagine the fans and the media. the jets 0-1 the first week, bring in tebow. >> that's the difference between college and the media. the focus the media puts on you. >> please, stop it. >> right. it's tough. >> it's very nice to meet you. >> nice to meet you, too. >> it creates a bond. the analysis. he's a genius. >> get back in there. >> i have to find a job. i'm lucky to hang on to the one

i have. >> yeah. >> great to talk to you. >> very nice to meet you. >> appreciate it. >> tonight across the street at radio city. president obama calls mitt romney an extremist. where the race stands six months out. "morning joe," back in a moment. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could.

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i think of all the republican candidates who are prominent, i think romney would be the one that i would rather see have a slight possibility to be president. >> you would be comfortable with a romney presidency? >> i'd rather have a democrat but i would be comfortable. i think romney has shown in the past, in his previous years as a moderate or progressive, that he was fairly confident as a governor and running the olympics, as you know, as a good, solid family man. he's gone to the extreme right wing positions on some important issues to get the nominee of the nation. what he does in the general election is typical. >> good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, we have

mike barnicle. we have mark halperin and richard haass. joe, what did you make of president carter's comments about mitt romney? >> it's telling. you have a former democratic president. a man who always occupied the center of american politics saying he would not be horrified if romney was president of the united states. he talked about romney as the moderate and being an affective governor when running massachusetts. he talked about, of course, what mitt romney did in the olympics. i think it's fairly telling. you usually don't get -- you usually don't get people considered party leaders like that coming out and saying they would be comfortable with the other side winning the presidency. >> having said that, mark halperin, he was asked and he said he would prefer a democrat,

correct? >> barely. >> are we pulling? >> there's always a great carter story. conventional wisdom is more and more. romney has a chance. it's 50/50. >> yep. >> we see the president doing an interview with the "rolling stone" calling romney an extremist. if he can be an acceptable alternative and focuses on the economy, it's recipe for winning. jimmy carter saying it's okay. it goes to the theme that a lot of democrats as they meet romney they might agree, he's acceptable. >> mika, it speaks to a larger truth about mitt romney. the thing that is concern the republican base and concern a lot of republicans like myself. he's not sufficiently conservative may play in middle america. by the way, jimmy carter, again,

was a guy that got elected by middle america. he's a guy right now whose released a new book, a bible study guide. i think jimmy carter, more than most elected presidents has lived in the middle of america and understands the middle of america the most. he's a democrat and he would rather have a democrat win, but it does reflect a larger truth about the candidacy of mitt romney going into the general election. >> we have interesting new polls. richard, you look quizzical. >> i remember michael dukakis saying it has to do with competence. we need that. you need reasonable, capable people. governor romney, when he stands on the platform will look like that. it is neck-in-neck. >> let's look at the poll from fox news showing president obama and romney in a dead heat.

each with 46%. in an interview with rolling stone magazine, president obama illustrated his strategy of trying to paint mitt romney not as a flip-flopper, but too extreme for the country. you have a republican party and a republican nominee that believes in rolling back environmental regulations that believes in rolling back collective bargaining rights, an approach to deficit reduction in which taxes are cut further for the wealthiest americans and spending cuts by things like education and basic research and care for the vulnerable. i don't think their nominee is going to say everything i said for the last six months i didn't mean. i'm assuming he meant it. joe? >> i will say this, again. this is a losing strategy by the obama team. they have it completely wrong here. americans know, mitt romney is not a radical.

he is not a right wing nut. he is a flip-flopper. he is a moderate. he's a guy who's adjusted his positions based on the political realities. if we want to be polite about it, he's very, very burkian. they are going to paint him as a right wing radical. hees not. a lot of us wish he would be more dramatic in the spending cuts, more dramatic in the regulatory regulations he's willing to go after. i think most americans, myself included understand that what romney says on the campaign trail and what romney does when he's president of the united states, if he is president of the united states, those are going to be two completely different things. it's discouraging to me. i'm just saying, this narrative that mitt romney is a radical, it's not going to sell because it's not true.

he's a flip-flopper. >> yes. but, because there is that in his record, can't you then paint him as exactly symbolic of what the republican party has begun to look like over the past few years because you don't know what he stands for. because he hasn't said anything in terms of how he would lay out a budget and because he leaned on others for his positions. he doesn't appear to have any of his own. doesn't that leave him open? >> no. i didn't say i don't know what he stands for. >> what does he stand for? >> what he considers to be good governance, whether it's in the oval office or in the governor's office or good governance in the corporate office. i think richard haass, you would agree with me. he's not a radical. whatever he does he's going to go and run it as effectively as

possible. i don't think and i don't say it as a compliment. >> what does he stand for, richard? >> first of all, he doesn't look like a radical or talk like a radical. when people get introduced to him, they are not going to see him as a radical. that is what's so critical. plus, he that has chance to reintroduce himself to the bulk of the people. it's shocking for this show, but most americans are not hanging on to every word of the republican primaries. after labor day, when they get on the stage, for romney, it's a tremendous opportunity to say this is who i am, define himself against the backdrop of what is likely to be a flagging economy. i think he has a real opportunity here. >> the big thing about romney is he won't scare you. he won't scare you when you see him physically or when you hear him speak. he is not santorum. he is not gingrich. when given the opportunity to

drive the car, when he was governor of massachusetts, he drove it down the middle of the road and sometimes took a left hand turn. i think joe is absolutely right. the way to go after him, if you are the democrats, is not to try to inflict fear of romney into the electorate. it might be a better shot that's saying it's thursday, do you know what mitt romney's positions are today? he can't make up his mind on anything. >> it's tough to have it both ways. the obama campaign made the case for months now. romney laid the ground work for the affordable care act. if you are painting him that way as a mushy moderate or left winger, as governor of massachusetts, it's hard to go back to the other side and say he's a right wing nut job. superficially, he doesn't come off as a crazy guy or a right wing nut job. >> i like that, right wing nut

job. >> i know you do. >> mika, i leave the studio for one day and willie starts -- he starts, you know, using my label. calling me a right wing nut job. i know what he's talking about. >> he's wearing it. >> it is a badge i wear proudly. >> yeah. it's not you. okay. you talked about a blank slate or new opportunity for romney. it is beginning to take shape after a tu muyear. newt gingrich will officially suspend his bid on tuesday and offered to throw his support behind romney. he's waiting until tuesday so everyone can be around him to make the declaration. here is the former house speaker yesterday. >> we are going to continue to move forward. we are going to do so in a framework where it's clear governor romney is going to be the nominee based on the sheer

weight of yesterday's evidence. we need to work in a way that we can find a way to focus on defeating obama, not a focus on fighting ourselves. >> texas -- come on, don't laugh. what's wrong with you? >> i had an image of gingrich standing at a restaurant, people trying to eat lunch -- who is this guy standing up saying this. >> joe wants know stop. if he were here, he would kick me but he's not. rick perry was supporting gingrich. with him leaving the race, perry is putting his support behind romney. this might be an endorsement. he praised romney. an actual one. saying he earned the nomination through hard work and a strong organization. just saying he is behind him. joe? >> yeah. you know, i said tough things about newt throughout the campaign. i do, i really do, knowing him and knowing his talent going

back to 1994, i think -- i actually do. i think this is sad looking back at how the campaign was run. i know a lot of people that have known newt gingrich a long time, believed in him. he was a transformative figure in 1994. he turned the legislative ranch back to the republican party for the first time in a generation. i believe the republican party has a shot to hold the legislative branch, parts of all of it for a generation to come. it started with a guy, who unfortunately on the campaign trail never seemed to find his voice or know who he was. there was just such ideological inconsistency that it gave followers vertigo. as somebody that was part of the '94 class and saw the remarkable potential that this guy had and

has, i'm just truthfully, it's sort of sad looking back over the campaign to see how it was run. >> is there any, i'm looking for the positive here, legacy he left on the campaign? what is the mark he made on the campaign going forward. we always talk how some of the candidates seemed like clowns and too cartoon like. did newt have a serious impact on it? >> well, i think -- i think newt gingrich probably hopes this campaign is a footnote in his political history. he did, obviously, we all remember the night he won in south carolina. one of the most conservative states in america. but, also an establishment state. that really was quite a victory by newt gingrich. but, just like the other candidates, he didn't have money. he didn't have organization. he didn't have what it took to

keep up with mitt romney. i think that took a lot of these guys out of their game. i think it made them say radical things to grab headlines because they didn't have money to respond to romney. i have to say, everybody talks about newt's super pack. the fact is, this race, without super packs would have been closer and gingrich would have stayed in it much longer. we all remember newt winning south carolina and being absolutely demolished, not by mitt romney's message or machine, but his money in the state of florida. they absolutely destroyed him. i think that caused a bitterness and resentment there and in iowa a couple weeks before that stayed with him throughout the campaign. he just couldn't check in a way he needed to check. >> mark halperin, helpful or hurtful to mitt romney? often the fights can make for a better candidate and griping

between them. having said that, i'm not so sure in this case. >> every nominee gets tested. i think he was helped by the test. gingrich gave him the toughest test. the week between south carolina and florida romney could have lost the whole thing. his campaign leaves two legacies. one, go back to the wall street journal editorial that is important talking about how romney can win. gingrich talked about big ideas. the country faces transformational things. he didn't breakthrough with his big ideas. putting on the table you have to be big in the race. the other thing, i think he clearly elevated the notion, the road to the white house leads through america's petting zoos. if it's not part of your platform, you don't have a chance. >> stop it. >> i will say this, when the history books are written about the 2012 campaign and if mitt

romney ends up being elected president of the united states, there was one moment and one moment only that the romney campaign, which has been arrogant from the beginning, been overconfident from the beginning, there was one moment when as mark halperin said, they realized they faced a threat and one time they admitted to me and other people that this could all go away in a minute. it was the threat from newt gingrich after south carolina. after those polls closed up, i think if you but truth serum in everybody that was in mid center circle, half of them would say he wasn't going to survive. they were scared to death. they had good reasons to be scared to death. of course, again, the money in florida, outspending newt, ten to one, i think that did it. finished newt's campaign off for good. >> we'll watch him step down over the next few days.

can't seem to do that quickly. senator marco rubio considered a vice president pick for romney is working to boost his national profile by outlining his foreign policy position. the freshman senator criticized aspects of the obama administration's look over seas. >> our greatest successes have always occurred in partnership with like minded nations. i believe it should continue to do so in the future when necessity requires. our preferred option since the u.s. became a global leader has been to work with others to achieve our goals. >> when dealing with rubio, they said we should be open to nations. military action may be necessary. at the end of his remarks came a

little bit of an awkward moment. take a look. >> more people are free to grow their economies. free to pursue their dreams. free to become prosperous. i left my last page of the speech. does anybody have my last page? did i leave it with you? i apologize. above all else, the 21st century provides opportunities for more freedom. joe, your take? i almost don't want to -- having said that, it could have been handled differently. >> no, listen. it happens. >> yeah. >> it happens. some of us can't just talk for three hours without a script or teleprompter. we are normal human beings. it was a good speech. i like marco a lot. i think he has bright future ahead of him. i'm going to say it and why not? this is why people watch the

show. let me set myself on fire. he's not ready to be vice president. just like barack obama wasn't ready to be president in 2008 and sarah palin wasn't ready to be on the national ticket in 2008. marco rubio is a great guy. he's got a compelling story. my god, what a great demographic he will speak to some day. he's not ready for the national ticket in 2012. is it wrong to pay a child to read a book? joe? >> no! >> of course not. >> i took my barbells up to the attic. it's good for an 8-year-old girl. >> is it ethical to have people test risky new drugs? our next guest questions if we have reached our -- a new book in search of the real bob dylan, a rock and roll icon who remains an inig ma.

first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> he's wrapped inside a really bad weather man. >> exactly. >> bill. >> quick release. >> i'm going to make a comment about the moral issues here on "morning joe," but i think we are well beyond that point. this next buy can help us. >> thunderstorms rocking through tennessee heading through areas into south carolina and north carolina. if you are in the asheville area, strong winds are knocking on your door. they have knocked down a lot of trees and power lines in tennessee this morning. in virginia, rain through richmond south of d.c. exiting. there's more rain behind it in areas of west virginia. the bottom line, a lot of areas of rain today. in the west, oregon and washington state. the forecast today, on and off rain in d.c. itis not going to rain all day. the showers work away in philly,

new york, boston and hartford. southeast, you look gorgeous. middle of the country, it's hot in texas. today, near 91 in dallas. west texas will be near 100 degrees. a sneak peek at tomorrow's forecast, the east coast clears out nicely. tomorrow, strong storms in the northern plains. i have to talk to mika. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] if you want a luxury car with a standard power moon roof,

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suppose you are the driver of the trolley car and the trolley car is going down the track at 60 miles an hour. at the end of the track, you notice five workers working on the track. you try to stop, but you can't. your brakes don't work. you feel desperate because you know that if you crash into these five workers they will all die. let's assume you know that for sure. so you feel helpless until you notice there is, off to the right, a side track. at the end of that track, there's one worker working on the track. your steering wheel works so you can turn the trolley car, if you want to on to the side track, killing the one but sparing the five. here is our first question,

what's the right thing to do? >> okay. that was one of the moral dilemmas posed byharvard professor michael sandel. millions have seen his course. he's author of "what money can't buy". you join us now. you are great on stage. >> it's good to be with you on this stage. >> what's the answer? obviously. >> it's a long story. >> what's the right answer, right or left? >> the real answer and what we need in life are morally morrow bust debates in our public life. we have neglected moral argument in politics. we have to empty it out, i

think. especially, morality in politics means abortion or same-sex marriage. >> right. >> liberals don't want to get into moral questions and values and talk of virtues and politics. i think it's a mistake. across the political spectrum, we should join the issue, not shy away from them and in particular debate moral issues with the economy, markets and the role of money in society. >> we teased moral questions that you look at in the book that looks fantastic. i completely agree with you in terms of policy. moral arguments should guide us in our foreign policy and our domestic policy. i don't understand why it's become taboo. having said that, here are a few of the ethical questions you tackle.

should we pay children to read books or get good grades. i'm scared about the answer here. can you tell us the answer or leave us with the question? please don't leave me with the question. >> a lot of school districts around the country are trying to motivate kids who come from poor backgrounds to get good grades by paying them cash for good grades, good test scores. in dallas, they pay third graders $3 for each book they read. the motivation is good. to motivate the kids to learn. but there's the danger that paying cash will crowd out other values like the love of learning for its own sake and send the wrong message. this is a small example of how throughout our society we are relying more and more on money to give people incentives, to decide who gets to the head of the line. it's been a quiet revolution

over the past three decades especially after the cold war when capitalism, we told ourselves is the only system left standing and there's only one version of it. market principles and market thinking can solve every problem. >> there's so many ways money gets us to the front of the line. kids especially to the front of the line. mike barnicle? >> life is littered with that. first class plane ticket, you are on the plane first ahead of everyone else. if only you worked harder, you would be with me in first class. it's the sense you get. over the last ten, 15, 20 years, the years are arguable where the split between those who have money and those who don't have as much money or money doesn't go as far as it used to, hasn't that widened the cultural gap when now you have one small select group of people who know and know money buys everything for them. >> the closer we get to a

society where everything is up for sale, the more money matters and the greater the gap in life experience between those who have money and those who don't. the effect of this, apart from the question of the unfairness to those at the bottom, there's another effect. it's corrosive over time over civic life because democracy doesn't require perfect equality, but it does require we share enough of a common life, we bump up against one another in the ordinary course of life. it enables us to argue about the common good. that's the biggest danger. we haven't paid much attention to it in our politics, the growing roll of markets and money. where should markets go? where do they serve the public good and where do they not belong? is is part of that problem the fact that much of our politics,

especially at the national level and much of our lives, you can see it here in new york more so than any other city. people who have money or access to money, money equalling power, don't realize the difference. they can go out and pay for the s.a.t. instructors for their kids. you can have a kid equally as smart, but the kid who that has s.a.t. tutor is going to get a jump. >> right. we end up buying our way out of the common spaces of democratic life. you see it in areas big and small. you see it in the military. in iraq and afghanistan, there were more private military contractors than u.s. military troops. we never had a political debate whether we wanted to outsource war but it happened over a couple decades. we see it in less consequential

areas but imp lematic of this. when i was a kid, i was a minnesota twins fan. >> sorry. >> mid-'60s. i'm a red sox fan now. >> good. >> when i went to see the twins play, the difference between the most expensive seat and a bleacher seat, the cheapest seat, what do you imagine? what would you guess? >> probably $3. >> $2.50 maybe. $3.50 for box seats. $1 for the bleachers and everyone got wet when it rained. the ceo and mail room clerk. it was a class-mixing experience. in the '80s,' 90s and 2000s, stadiums built with boxes where the corporate can retreat with

air-conditioned splendor, not get rained on and not eat the same soggy hot dogs. that makes a difference if it's across american social. >> we talked about this in the context of the united states. how much about what human nature wants regarding money and markets? >> i think we are all of us conflicted about this. once we are put in a competitive situation where we want our kids to get into the best schools, we sign them up for the s.a.t. prep courses, those of us who can afford it. it's perfectly understandable. we want the best for our kids, given the system we operate in. yet, with another part of ourselves, when we stand back and look at the overall effect, i call it is sky boxification of life, whether it's education or access to health care or civic life or family life, when we step back and see what's

happened, i think we would -- i think everyone, including those in the sky boxes would prefer if the schools were good enough so that everyone could send their kids there, the public schools, i mean. i think we have a civic democratic aspiration as we try to do the best for our kids, which means buying our way out, if we can or the head of the line. >> great questions. the book is, "what money can't buy." you can read more on our blog. micha micha michael send el. thank you very much. we'll be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] 1 in 6. that's how many struggle with hunger in america. ♪ but what if there was a simple way to feed those in need?

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♪ 38 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, one of the founding editors of "rolling stone" magazine. he's the author of "who is that man"? search of the real bob dylan. great to have you here. >> thank you. good to be here. we are going to talk about the truths. ask your uncle's questions. >> my uncle herb, a very wise

man believes bob dylan is not only the greatest song writer, but the biggest in history. >> i agree. if you think, even of the '60s, we went from "i want to hold your hand" to "the foggy ruins of time." then he went into, it's almost like listening to the middle albums as if you are hearing what he's thinking, you know? the ghost of electricity. i mean just unbelievable words that, you know, make your mind weep from one thing to another. i think he's the most, you know, people think of him as surrealistic. i think he's the most realistic song writer, too. he expresses emotions and feelings and ideas that were never expressed in popular

music. >> emotions and feelings. let's go to newport, 1965. dylan is standing there and the band behind him. the myth is, that's the moment dylan goes electric. supposedly the crowd starts to boo and he turns and says play it louder. what is the truth? >> the truth is, the booing, i was there. i was a rock fan and i went there and it was like spring break. everybody was like me. there were there because he was going to play electric. when he played, the booing came because he was only on for 15 minutes. everybody else was on 30 or 45 minutes. >> they wanted more. >> they wanted more, not less. what happened, of course, is that, you know, the press misunderstood it. it became all about they got

confused. then, you know, everybody got into it. dylan liked the idea. he was the rejected artist that the people didn't understand. then, what happened is when he went on tour of europe or whatever, people thought that's what you did. you know, you boo him because he's a traitor. it had a self-fulfilling prophesy. >> one of the things you do in the book is trace him over time. what are things that motivated him? what's he been in it for? >> i think, music is what has totally -- in fact, he believes that he was born from the grooves of a record he heard from a child called "drifting too far from the shore." he felt like a different person. his parents weren't his own parents. he was this other person who, in

1960, he became. he was born robert zimmerman and 1960, he became bob dylan. he fabricated a fantastic cast of characters that he went on, you know, to be the sort of woody guthrie hobo. >> one of the characters he became, i want to find out from you, how he got to become this character. we played a cut from one of the songs earlier today. how does he become a member of the traveling will berries? >> well, it's a question of people, you know, famous musicians forgetting and leaving their guitars at somebody else's how and somebody coming over to borrow it. what are you doing? we are doing this group. it was incredibly fruitous for

bob. being involved in that group was really a god saving for him. also, the whole community of a group, being involved in a group. he's always been a loner. it was comforting for him to be with all these other famous people. >> you talk about finding the real bob dylan. in search of the man. you can point to his voice. if you listen to "lay lady lay" and listen to something from this decade, it's not the same. what about the evolution in his voice? what happened? >> well, i think the, you know, his voice is, as you point out, really is its own persona. he affected this growly, you know, like as if he had been dug

up from an appalachian grave. now i have delivered the last words. i think -- it's happening to me now. i think singing against an electric band, too much smoking, probably too many -- >> yeah. >> -- chemical stimulants. >> it's something that happened. >> that voice, that coky voice he has now is not affected. it's definitely an artifact but it's not something he affects. >> this is the old dylan voice. >> absolutely fascinating. the book is, "who is that man." david dalton, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> come back soon. new weekly job numbers just released.

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helping you do what you do... even better. fiona here was just telling me that ford dealers sell a new tire like...every five seconds, how's that possible? well, we purchase 3 million a year. you just sold one right now didn't you? that's correct. major brands. 11 major brands. oop,there goes another one. well we'll beat anybody's advertised price. and you just did it right there, what's that called? the low price tire guarantee. wait for it, there goes another one. get a $100 rebate, plus the low price tire guarantee during the big tire event. look at that. it's happening right there every five seconds. your not going to run out are you? no. wow. this is new. yep. i'm sending the dancing chicken to every store in the franchise to get the word out. that could work. or you could use every door direct mail from the postal service. it'll help you and all your franchisees find the customers that matter most: the ones in the neighborhood. you print it or find a local partner. great.

keep it moving honey. honey? that's my wife. wow. there you go. there you go. [ male announcer ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. all right. 48 past the hour. live look at the top of the rock. kind of, what is that, a hazy day in new york city. let's get a check on business before the well. is there something not right with him? look at him. something not right with brian sullivan. are you off? are you a little off, brian? >> what did mozart say? with genius comes madness. it might have been bob barker. it is the weight that i bare.

>> i'm thinking it's something else. give us the jobless numbers. >> a good news/bad news scenario. they fell to 388,000 new claims. this is why the markets might have the home sick blues. that is the highest real reading over two weeks since january. there is still softness in the labor market and, you know, what we need to do is get the job growth going again. you talk debt and deficit. the best cure for that is growth. i'm going to leave you with this. there's one growth market out there. men's grooming products, specialty stuff is up 13% year over year. i found this. nail polish for men, i am not wearing any, i love their tag line, for warriors. if i was starting a nail polish company, i would make tangled up in blue. what do you think of that?

>> love it. >> i'm going to give you the final seconds. what is the boom in male grooming products say about men? >> i'm not the only one that wears make up every day. >> exactly. >> metro sexuals. brian sullivan, thank you. he's just not right. there's something wrong. look at the eyes. >> i'm so right. >> look at the eyes. >> they're beautiful. >> more "morning joe" in a moment. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution,

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tomorrow on "morning joe," the independent presidential candidates, buddy roemer. also, excited about this one. rachel dratch. >> i love her. >> she's got a new book out. can't wait to talk to her. what, if anything did we learn today, coming up next. ♪ ♪ ♪ and i never thought i'd feel this way ♪ ♪ the way i feel about you [ male announcer ] it's time to clean out your garage

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choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. time now to talk about what we learned today. there's so much. really? >> first of all, they make bacon flavored toothpicks. they sell them at the loveless cafe in tennessee. i also learned something i knew, when a foul ball goes into the stands and you are an adult and there's a little kid next to you, you hand it to the kid. when the kid sobs, you hand it to them. you don't take pictures of it. a little rangers fan. >> oh my goodness. give him the ball. >> look mom, i got a fall ball. >> what is wrong?

what is wrong? >> do the right thing baseball fans. give it to the kid. >> mark halperin. one from the governor of montana direct flight from north liberty to -- from willie geist, national pretzel day is today. seems like only yesterday. >> i'm going to the rock creek wran ch in montana. it sounds great. the governor is going to teach my fly fishing and beef jerky. huckleberry jam. help me. if it's way too early -- >> it's "morning joe." you may have thought president obama was in re-election mode for months, but the campaign announced it's officially kicking off next week. vice president biden isn't