by taking the man in. the blind activist seeks medical treatment in beijing where his fate within the chinese system is unknown. we asked you at the top of the show what you were doing >> one from kevin. he writes, i'm up using "way too early" to procrastinate writing my final. >> i think that's a theme. i can't believe i'm watching you again the week before times. i'm simultaneously writing a biochempaper and studying genetics. unless you're doing finger painting and marble counting, i can't help you. "morning joe" starts right now. as we emerge from a decade of conflict abroad and economic crisis at home, it's time to renew america. an america where our children live free from fear and have the

skills to reclaim their dreams, a united america of grit and resilience, where sunlight glistens off soaring new towers in downtown manhattan and we build our futures as one people, one nation. good morning. it's wednesday, may 2. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. we have the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. great to have you on. >> we're just going to talk about politics? >> no, we're not. we have msnbc analyst michael steele. we'll talk politics with him. >> yeah. >> all right. >> willie just sat down. >> how you doing, willie? >> great. how are you doing? >> today is a big day. >> yes, it is. a lot going on. >> it's a brooks brothers day. >> it's a happy day. >> there's a lot to talk about in afghanistan. >> it's mika's birthday. >> i know. happy birthday. i was waiting for somebody to say it. >> that's why it's a big day.

>> happy birthday. >> happy birthday. >> i'm 45. am i supposed to be happy? >> yes. look at you at 45. >> yes. come on. >> oh, my goodness. >> smile. be happy. >> you know, it's fine. i'm just fine with it. >> you're just 2350ifine. >> look at me. it could be worse. you look fantastic. >> i'm going to start saying i'm 46 just to get used to 46 next year. let's get serious and get to the news. new suicide attack by the taliban this morning underscoring the long-term challenges facing afghanistan. at least seven people were killed by insurgents today, just hours after the president left the country. marking the one-year anniversary of the mission that killed osama bin laden, president obama met with u.s. troops in kabul and later addressed the nation with his vision for ending america's longest war. >> my fellow americans, we travelled through more than a decade under the dark cloud of war.

yet here in the predawn darkness of afghanistan, we can see the light of a new day on the horizon. the iraq war is over. the number of our troops in harm's way has been cut in half. and more will soon be coming home. we have a clear path to fulfill our mission in afghanistan while delivering justice to al qaeda. >> the president said that defeat of al qaeda is within reach, and pushes back against critics who say that a time frame for ending the war is a blueprint for the enemy. >> as we move forward, some people will ask why we need a firm time line. the answer is clear. our goal is not to build a country in america's image or to eradicate every vestige of the taliban. these objectives would require many more years, many more dollars, and most importantly, many more american lives. our goal is to destroy al qaeda, and we are on a path to do exactly that.

afghans want to assert their sovereignty and build a lasting peace. that requires a clear time line to wind down the war. others will ask why don't we leave immediately? that answer is also clear. we must give afghanistan the opportunity to stabilize. otherwise, our gains could be lost. and al qaeda could establish itself once more. and as commander in chief, i refuse to let that happen. i recognize that many americans are tired of war. as president, nothing is more wrenching than signing a letter to a family of the fallen. we're lo or looking into the eyes of a child who will grow up without a mother or father. i will not keep americans in harm's way a single day longer than is absolutely required for our national security. but we must finish the job we started in afghanistan, and end this war responsibly.

>> the president's remarks followed the signing of a 10-year strategic partnership agreement with hamid karzai that establishes the framework for u.s. involvement in the country withdrawal of -- >> how do you get into a 10-year agreement with that guy? oh, wait a second, we just did. >> the agreement will provide -- >> actually, it's a 20-year agreement. soon to be a 30-year agreement. >> it will provide u.s. economic and social aide through 2024, security assistance and training to afghan forces and assurances that permanent u.s. military bases would not be built in the country. although some american forces will remain in afghanistan after 2014 to target al qaeda. it doesn't lay out specific financial commitments, which will depend on authorization from congress. >> so security guarantees through 2024. troops will be there in 2024

that were not even born on september 11, 2001. richard haass, break apart the president's talk yesterday. what did you think? >> it's really interesting to go back a couple of years ago, and the president gave his big talk about afghan policy. it was december of 2009. and he said, we're going to get in heavily. but then in 18 months, we're going to start to get out. and what he did yesterday was the opposite. he said we're now going to get out, but we're going to stay in. and what you have all along is this tension or duality if you want to be more generous in the president's afghan policy, and that continued. what he announced last night in this new partnership agreement is essentially another 10 years. it's the opposite in some ways of iraq. iraq we got out completely. some criticism. here we're going to have some residual force but lots of questions. what's the size of the force? what's going to be the size of the afghan force? who's going to pay for the afghan force? how much is it going to cost? and real questions about why this should work, given still the corruption and divisions within the karzai government.

pakistan will still be a sanctuary for the taliban, as we saw right after the president's left. we seem to be stay in afghanistan. we have contributed and sacrificed so much, we can't walk away. and the strategic questions about what is it we're really trying to do. why do we need to do this in afghanistan if we're worried about al qaeda? what's so different now about afghanistan than yemen, as a matter of law -- somalia, libya, all of these other things? >> afghanistan is not as central to al qaeda operations as yemen. mike barnicle, you can't compare afghanistan to vietnam anymore because vietnam lasted a decade. we're going to go two decades at least. into afghanistan. and anybody who believes that all the troops are going to --

combat troops will be out in 2014 are naive. we have just recommitted through 2024. and it's what we worried about around this table. when the president was talking about tripling the number of troops three years ago, this is what we warned about. >> in fact, the president outlined a plan that was first outlined by now vice president joe biden. he outlined it last night. and vice president biden when he was running for the presidency three or four years ago, this was his plan for afghanistan. to scale down frontline troops who were there on a daily basis. go to special ops over an extended period of time. the danger in the president's speech last night, there was an understanding vagueness to it because you were dealing with a really unreliable ally in president karzai. and as richard pointed out, the corruption, the unease of the relationship between the united states and karzai's afghanistan, and the fact that what is the

ultimate goal? is it to bring a country that is now logged in perhaps -- >> let me stop you there. you just asked what's the ultimate goal. we have been asking foreign policy -- >> what is it? >> specialists on this set, administration officials, the late richard holbrook, everybody, for years, what's the goal in afghanistan? they don't have a goal in afghanistan. you know why? because it's not about afghanistan. it's about pakistan. this is -- it's ridiculous. we had a goal, and that goal was to rid afghanistan of al qaeda's power structure. we succeeded. >> right. >> and then we moved. then we moved the goal post. and now it's to rebuild a country with, again, we're going into another decade partnership with one of the most corrupt leaders on the planet. it makes no sense. we're wasting $2 billion a week. and young americans are dying

every every week. >> you're right. we did move the goal post in afghanistan from essentially getting rid of al qaeda to a version of nation building, and that's what we've done. but it's still not clear that what happens in afghanistan is essential to the future of pakistan. one could argue that what happens in pakistan is essential to its future. so i think you're right. one other thing, joe, what is the nature of the american commitment to afghanistan? just as u.s. forces begin to wind down there, and the afghan government gets in trouble, what's the nature of this relationship? to what extent now is the united states linked to the future of this -- some karzai or even karzai successor? there's a strategic partnership agreement. to what extent has the united states hitched its wagon to an afghanistan that's not run by the taliban? that really remains to be seen as well. >> when you see it in print, the time frame is staggering. 2024. you think october 7, 2001, is when we first went into afghanistan.

23 years later, at the very, very least, we will still be in afghanistan. nearly a quarter of a century later. >> by the way, willie, we will still be in afghanistan when george, your george who is 2 years old right now, is in high school. >> oh, yeah. >> in high school. let's bring in jack jacobs, retired u.s. army colonel. jack, we want to pick up on a conversation we were having earlier this morning on what this means practically. the line out there is that 2014 is the end of combat. but we know between 2014 and 2024 there will be united states troops, there will be young men and women in harm's way. >> well, the first thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to have me back in 2024 to talk about this. i won't be here. >> oh, stop it. >> stop it, jack. >> come on. >> i'll be in the marble orchard. >> that's my kind of attitude. thank you.

>> we told you it could worse, and it could be worse. >> that was the best birthday wish i have ever gotten in my wish. >> you realize by the time he was my age, mozart had already been dead for 35 years. >> gosh, ok. >> moving ahead. >> we're going to be there a long time. >> you're living in a very dark place, aren't you? >> i am. >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> no. you were talking before about vietnam and how it's not like vietnam. but the only thing you could offer about it is that vietnam didn't go on this long. but i'll tell you, when you think about the things that you guys are talking about around the table, it looks a lot like vietnam. i think after about 1970, maybe '71, combat troop, conventional combat troops came out of vietnam. i was there in '72 and in january '73 was still there with the vietnamese airborne division. there were plenty of advisers getting shot up every day.

so combat ain't over and isn't going to be over. the second thing is, no matter what americans we have over there, advisers, special forces, special operations forces, so forth to control the air strikes and all of rest of that stuff, there are no frontlines and they are all going to be -- they are all going to get shot at too. >> and that is unfortunately, michael steele, that is just the reality of afghanistan. if you're fighting in afghanistan, there is no frontline that you can hide from. >> correct. >> the entire country is a frontline. and the president guaranteed last night that young americans will be getting shot at and killed in afghanistan for another 12 years. >> right. >> now, what is distressing to me is the fact, though, michael, that while i was against the president's plan to triple the number of troops and a lot of conservatives were against the

president keeping all of these forces here, the republican party, our party, has been even more hawkish. >> yeah. >> there's been even more i would say irresponsible saying the president isn't taking a tough enough line. i guess the question is, do they want us to stay there another century? >> this is a great example of how washington, d.c., is so out of touch with the majority of americans. >> well, i think you're right there, joe. and i think your piece in politico really put this thing in two very clear perspectives. the first is, and you have talked about it already, we're going to be there until 2024. the political ramifications of that particularly given where this president was in 2008 as he campaigned about, you know, i want to get us out of afghanistan, i want to end these wars, i want to move america back to renewing itself, which he touched on last night, time to renew america. well, how do you do that when we're still spending $2 billion a week in current dollars? how do you do that when the

american people are still sending their sons to a foreign land to do something that as you noted, joe, the soviets and, you know, the british and -- the greeks couldn't do? >> yeah, the greeks couldn't do it. the british empire couldn't do it. the soviets couldn't do it. >> right. >> and what do we say to our own nominee, mitt romney? what do we say to republican senators, to republican congressmen, who are saying that this president is actually being too weak in afghanistan? it's mind boggling. >> well, that's going to be a very interesting conversation once the president gets back here on the soil to have the political engagement on this, because as you've seen, joe, they have set this thing up with the commercial last week, with the video, with president clinton talking about the admirable work that this president has done in this area. the republicans in large measure have supported and pushed this.

you put it again very correctly that the neocons won on the afghanistan policy right now. and now we're going to have to live with that and justify this expense when everyone knows that there is no end game here. >> there is no end game. by the way, meekikamika, that ie away from last night. the neocons won here. >> somebody tell me what a better alternative is, since this is unwinnable and there's no other answer. there's no alternative. >> what would have been and still would be a better policy is not to get out completely but essentially to accelerate what we're going to do by the end of 2014, and to make sure that whatever the residual force and the residual role is extraordinarily modest. there's no reason what we do in afghanistan is larger than what we do in libya, somalia, yemen. it should be limited training and advising. there's no such thing as a central front anymore in the

global war on terrorism. there's nothing particularly special about this real estate. so what we need to do is scale down the level of effort to what's achievable. >> mika, the thing is, democrats attacked george w. bush for choosing the wrong war for six years in iraq. >> right. >> barack obama did the same thing in afghanistan in 2010 when he decided to triple the number of troops because as richard said, afghanistan is not the front on the war on terror. it was a decade ago. it's not now. we are spending so much money, so much time, so much energy, we're impacting the united states military's readiness, in a country now that is not the center of the global war on terror anymore. it's reckless. what should we have done? what richard just said, except we should have started doing it three years ago when all of us around this table were saying, we should have started it three

years ago. so don't act shocked today. >> i'm not acting shocked. i'm just saying i haven't heard a better alternative. >> we gave that alternative three years ago, mika, and that was don't triple the number of troops on afghanistan, don't double down on a bad idea, start phasing the troops out. and so now we are extending this a decade. >> good. ok. let me take your point to jack jacobs and ask jack, what would be the ramifications of what joe just said and also walking away from a partnership with hamid karzai, if anything? >> i think everybody thinks that hamid karzai is there for the short duration. i also believe that what richard haass just said is a better option is exactly what is going to happen. i think that's exactly what's going to happen. withdraw sooner rather than later. there are plans already on the books to not start withdrawing in 2014, starting to pull them out sooner. and by 2014 have the large

majority of conventional troops out of there. i think that's exactly what this administration is going to do. and if this president does not get re-elected, i'd be willing to bet given the restrictions that the congress are going to be putting things, and they are in charge at the end of the day, whatever next president i think is going to do it. and the other reason richard haass is right is the only person up there with the white shirt, i'm astonished you guys have gone cowboy on me. all of you guys have gone cowboy. >> no, no, no. look at these two. >> if you strip the presidential rhetoric out of that speech last night with the metaphors, the sun, the light at the end of the tunnel, all of that stuff, there were three elements of this speech that are pretty clear, if you want to be realistic about it. one, we are coming out of afghanistan, probably pretty quickly. two, that we're going to be specialized hunter killer special ops teams in afghanistan for a decade doing special ops

work. three, that speech effectively removed afghanistan from the political debate for the rest of the year. what is mitt romney going to do? what's he going to say? >> michael steele can chime in on that. >> you watch. you watch. >> michael, real quick. >> seriously, the president may talk about getting the troops out. you watch when he tries to get the troops out. there's a reason, michael steele, why all the neocons were celebrating the speech last night, why john mccain and lindsey graham and other neocons actually got in line behind the president of the united states, because they know that the president has set up a frame work. we're going to be there until 2024. and good luck, mike, when we start trying to remove the troops. they are going to go crazy. >> i disagree with mike just a little bit on the fact that, you know, this will not be a part of the political debate. i think that in fact it will be. and an ironic twist, and you just touched on it joe, i think

it will be re-emphasized by mitt romney and others, the validity of doing what the president wants to do. i think that the neocon desire to complete the mission in afghanistan, which i have always found to be curious, because i don't know what the hell is that. i don't think anyone has accurately described what it is. >> it's actually staying there forever. let me answer that for you. >> if the fight is elsewhere, why are we making such a concentrated effort on a piece of real estate as was mentioned to do nothing? >> some people want american troops in every country, or at least every muslim country. >> i don't understand it. >> richard, i've got great respect for john mccain. but the fact that john mccain seemed to support what the president was saying last night causes me concern because we have such a different view of the use of american forces across the globe. >> there's going to be a real challenge for the president. it happened last night. when things start to unravel a little bit, you and everyone watching knows that things are always going to be unraveling in

afghanistan. what is it then that the united states does? and that's where it's not quite clear that the president has it all sorted out. if we're still committed to the viability of this government or a government like it in afghanistan, what do we do when it comes under real pressure and can't quite cut it? if our goal is to have an afghanistan that can hack it on its own, a suggested degree of open ended commitment from us is warranted, and that's where the president hasn't squared the policy. there should will be a ceiling on what we're doing, and at the moment, the ceiling isn't clear. coming up, brian williams will be here to talk about his exclusive access to the white house situation room and his interview with those who watched the bin laden raid unfold. also, dan rather will join us. "newsweek's" tina brown. >> and army combat veteran wes moore. up next, mike allen with the top stories in the politico playbook. but first, bill karins has a check on the forecast. >> happy birthday, mika.

never looking better, sweetheart. >> did he just call me sweetheart? i think he did. >> that's my birthday gift. or a creepy gift, depending on how you want to look at it. good morning, everyone. showers and thunderstorms rolling through maryland this morning, heading across the chesapeake. just missed washington, d.c. if you're in wilmington, you're going to get some heavy rain. put that into your morning plans. also some strong storms back in the west. and southern portions near pittsburgh getting some wet weather this morning. the forecast today, on and off rain and thunderstorms today, especially the further to the south you are. along the coastal areas of new england, it will be a chilly, raw day. only in the 50s today from boston to areas here in new york. the big story, what's happening in the middle of the country. thunderstorms across wisconsin, northern illinois. and later today, a moderate risk of severe storms, widespread severe weather outbreak, omaha to des moines. the rest of the country actually looking pretty good on this wednesday. if you're in the southern half

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do you believe there are misconceptions about him that need to be redefined and those that you suggest would be a fair picture of him? >> it's nice for me as a wife to be able to say, now, look, this is the person that is really there, theis is the boy that i knew. i still look at him as the boy i knew in high school when he was playing all the jokes and really just being crazy. [ laughter ] >> he is crazy. >> wow. >> that was funny. >> they are funny.

and ann is just willing to go with. >> she's great. time to look at the morning paper. a british parliamentary has declared rupert murdoch not fit to lead a major international company. the report which carries no legal sanctions accuses murdoch and son james of turning a blind eye in a culture that sought to cover up rather than seek out wrongdoing. >> the wisconsin state journal, the first quarter of the year, republican governor scott walker raised a whopping unprecedented $13 million to defend himself from a recall bid. 2/3 of that money comes from out of state donors. and walker dwarfs his democratic rivals who raised a combined total of about $2 million. "the new york times," the broadway musical "once" is topping the field with 11 tony award nominations this year. the play, "peter and the scar catchers," received nine

nominations. the pulitzer prize winning "claiborne park" received four nominations including best new play. going to see that. >> isn't that great? >> yeah. >> and a measure that was long overdue, the "wall street journal," governor dan malloy says he will sign a bill to allow alcohol to be sold on sundays in connecticut. >> all right. >> mike barnicle is very happy. so when he is driving through the state, he can just pull over and get a six pack and keep driving in style. >> idiot. >> the sale of booze will still be banned on christmas and new year's day. ok. i can live with that. >> all right. >> let's go to politico. >> why not? move right on. >> mike allen has a look at his world famous playbook. mike, good morning. >> good morning, guys. playbook today has a "morning joe" doubleheader. in addition to mika's birthday, she is also celebrating one

month of the paperback version of "knowing your value." >> mike is taking care of you today. >> mike is adorable. >> when i woke up this morning, i knew it was a special day. the one-month anniversary of the paperback. >> how did you know that? that's disturbing actually. >> mike knows everything. >> tomorrow is the one month and one-day anniversary. >> that's very big. >> and also today, the birthday of "morning joe's" hard-working jessie rodriguez. he is 28 today. >> oh, my goodness. it's jessie's birthday too? that's more important. jessie is awesome. he is a nice person. >> 28? >> she is the greatest. >> wow. we love him. and we love his mother. we met her in miami and she is fantastic. >> everything that tj is not, jessie is. >> he's fantastic. >> a hard worker. >> he's competent. he is a hard worker. he doesn't drool out the side of his mouth. that's awesome.

>> that's so nice. >> how many cruises can one man go on, that's what i want to know, from tj's point of view. >> every week he goes on a cruise. >> takes a cruise to disney world. it's amazing. >> how do you do that? mayor michael bloomberg. >> what's he banned now? >> no, not that time. mitt romney was currying favor yesterday here in new york city with the mayor. we know joe biden played golf with bloomberg over the weekend. both sides really going after his endorsement, aren't they? >> that's right. and it was just a few months ago that we had been talking about would the mayor possibly run down the middle. there's never been a better opening for a centrist third party candidate. michael bloomberg recognizes it's not his time. he's too liberal on social issues to make that run. but now he is finding power in a different way. in this third term as mayor, he is finding that both sides

recognize that in a time when the american people want a sort of more muted politics, this centrist politics, having him coming out for them would be huge. that the voters between the 40 yard lines that we so often talk about on "morning joe," that's exactly where michael bloomberg is. >> do you see michael bloomberg endorsing mitt romney? any chance of that? we know they talked yesterday about gun control, immigration for example. is there a scenario in which he could swing to mitt romney? >> it seems hard to believe. but i think that what we'll see is both sides tailoring their platforms, teeing up issues that michael bloomberg can talk about and endorse, and at the same time moving towards the center. both sides will be talking to the voters who have been tuned out during all the back and forth. but as they come in, in the end they are going to swing this election. >> mike, have we put to rest now officially any talk of a third party run by mike bloomberg? >> yes. it's too late to do.

he recognizes that this isn't his time. but there's very much an appetite among the american people for the issues he's talking about. if you believe in markets, you recognize that some politician is going to answer that call. some politician is going to recognize that getting things done that talking to these voters there in the middle is going to pay off for them. >> mike allen on the one-month anniversary of mika's paperback. >> thank you, mike. >> boy, that is digging deep in the weeds. >> he is amazing. >> nice. was president obama accused of spiking the football on the anniversary of osama bin laden's death? jon stewart imagines what republicans would be doing if george bush had been the one to get him. and what george bush himself would be saying. that's ahead in "news you can't use." sports, though, is up first. we'll be right back. ♪

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let's do a little sports,

shall we? >> yes. >> here is a tease for the end of sports. oil can boyd, the 1986 season. >> one of the highlights. >> one of mike's top customers in '86. >> wow, did you read that story? >> yes. >> let's start with the nba. the top seeded bulls playing their first game since the crushing lost of mvp derrick rose to a season-ending acl injury, taking on the sixers in game two. a big standing ovation as he came out with that cast, that brace on his left knee. could they win without their best player? that's been the question. the answer turned out last night to be no. they led at halftime, but philly owned the third quarter. a couple of alley-oops there. the sixers go on to win the game 109-92 on the road, tying the series at one game apiece. looks like it will be tough sledding without derrick rose. celtics on the road without rajon rondo, suspended for bumping the ref. but they still had paul pierce

and he came up big. scoops the bad pass. give-and-go. finishes with the dunk. less than a minute later, pierce hits a huge three, puts the celtics up seven. pierce 36-14. just over a minute remaining. pierce hits a game-clinching foul shot. watch this afterwards. a little tim tebow tribute at center court. pierce leads the celtics to a victory, 87-80. without rondo. [ laughter ] >> without rondo. >> i'm sorry. that's funny. >> that's good. to baseball now. the nationals fans got what they wanted. they got a star pitcher. now this 19-year-old kid, bryce harper. >> this guy is a punk, right? >> check out the -- >> the home debut of the phenom, bryce harper. >> going to be huge. >> watch. >> left fielder, number 34, bryce harper! [ applause ]

>> he got a nice ovation from the people who were there. unfortunately, there weren't many there. first home major league at-bat for bryce harper. strikes out to four pitches. 0 for three in the game. he is two for nine in his young career. >> the stadium wasn't filled up? >> no. not even half full. >> he threw that dude out at home plate. the guy was called safe, but it was a dart to home plate. the runner called safe, though. and the nationals actually lose their fifth straight game. they have lost five now after a hot start. oil can boyd. >> mike's close friend from '86. >> he has done an interview with espn in which he said he smoked crack every day during the 1986 season, including once before a start in oakland where he smoked crack in the bathroom, went out to the mound, put the rest of the crack in his hat and had it under his cap as he pitched the game in oakland. >> i guess you can go two ways.

you can go tim tebow's way or oil can's way. >> had a pretty good season, too. >> not bad. especially considering now. >> but he didn't use steroids. >> that's right. no dock ellis, though. no hitter on lsd. >> there's only one dock. up next, a look at wall street's apparent change of heart on president obama. keep it on "morning joe." >> interesting.

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in his new book, he writes in part, the president had already travelled to this city around 20 times during his first term, but he wasn't collecting money from wall street the way he used to. some bankers believed that the administration's strategy was to talk tough in public and play damage control in private and they were sick of playing along. donors relayed to mussina what their friends had been saying. they felt unfairly demonized for being wealthy. they felt scapegoated for the recession. it was a few weeks of mass protests against the 1% springing up all around the country, and they blamed the president and his party for the public's nasty wood. the administration, some suggested, had created a hostile environment for some job creators. >> i'm sure they have kissed and made up. >> no. >> not at all, huh? >> it's amazing. i'm not sure i can think of a comparable swing of kind of a constituency group or, you know, a certain community of players and fundraisers who have flipped

so hard from love to hate in four years. >> isn't that amazing? because you try to explain this to people outside of new york, who think, oh, wall street is going to be republican. but for a lot of cultural reasons, those guys and women down on wall street feel more culturally connected with democrats than republicans. >> that's right. historically, wall street has been a republican place, but it's money, political money, has kind of split it down the money. it often favors republicans on the whole. but of course this is a blue state. and the home state senators are democrats. and it's important to have good relationships with your home state people. in 2008, obama just cleaned up with the wall street cloud. crowd -- crowd. he raised so much more money than mccain it even shocked some people in the industry. >> michael steele, what do you make of it in terms of the politics that are playing out and mitt romney and his

relationship as it pertains to wall street versus obama's not so hot date? >> i think mitt romney benefits from the fact that they now have someplace to go. the love affair, the little tryst with obama in 2008 ended on a sour note. they were demagogued and demonized as the wealth creating class, if you will, and that was somehow a bad thing. so they were like, look, we're not going to let you beat us up and take our money. so we'll keep our money. you can beat us up all day long. we'll get with the guy who is going to be with the program that recognizes the value that we bring to this economy. and i think that's something that you saw yesterday, even though the emphasis was on 9/11. the money people behind the scenes were steadily working on behalf of mitt romney to let him know you have a new home to come to. this fanciful dalliance with the president is over. let's get back to the business of rebuilding the economy, and

you're going to be a key source of that. >> nick, is this fair? michael steele is talking about the value that wall street brings to the economy. isn't it fair to say that wall street also had a role in the downfall of the economy potentially almost, and that there were some things that this president was trying to deal with that were legitimate and wrong? >> i think the mindset in the administration is we are not your enemy. we took important and prudent steps to repair the economy, to fix wall street to go after bad actors. we don't really understand why you're complaining so much. because after all these things happened, you are still making so much money. why are you so mad you're winning? >> well, nick, that leads to my next question. the dow closed yesterday at 13,279. you see some of the corporate earnings coming out. it begs the question, what are they complaining about? it smacks a bit of whining they have been demonized by the white house. what's really at the core of their complaint against president obama? >> i think part of it is that this is the first time in the last 30 years when financiers

and wall street guys were not villains. they were hailed as titans and wealth creators. and suddenly under this president, not because of him perhaps, but under him they have become symbols of excess and ravaged economy. and they hate that. >> but didn't they earn that to some extent? >> i think the administration would argue there were some bad object ares there, we got them, and we fixed it. we're not anti-wall street. why are you guys complaining? >> but the president would go out and say a lot of nasty things in public, and then privately try to raise money. and i have talked to quite a few people on wall street who said even privately he was short and brusque and dismissive of their concerns. >> you can't have it both ways. you can't have a regulatory environment which most people in

the city feel is incredibly inhospitable to what they want, and denounce them publicly as elements of class warfare in the politics and come back and expect to be essentially welcomed and supported. at some point you have to choose. and this ability to carry out, if you will, a public politics that's hostile and a private politics that's going to be supported, that's a hard thing to pull off. >> nick, thank you very much. >> thanks, nick. >> the article is in the upcoming ""new york times"" magazine. we'll be right back with "news you can't use." "new york times" for three hours a week, i'm a coach.

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is it time? >> yes, it is. >> oh, thank god. >> it's time for the mika brzezinski birthday edition. or the one-month anniversary of the paperback. >> the year of osama bin laden's death and the one-month anniversary. >> i think they have been spiking the football on the one-month anniversary. touchdown dancing. speaking of, jon stewart last night took on this question of whether or not president obama should be talking as much as he is, bragging, perhaps, about the death of osama bin laden. he imagined what george w. bush would have done had it been him. >> just 12 months ago, parents across the country had to

suddenly explain to their country why they had just shouted at the country [ bleep ] yeah! it was the first event since 9/11 that really brought us together, which is why one year later this ad touting president obama's leadership during the raid while subtly questioning his opponent's judgment, that ad is tearing us apart! >> well, this administration is not above politicizing any issue for personal gain. >> politicizing. >> it's deplorable to politicize it. >> wah. [ laughter ] >> wah. i have a question. are you on crack? bush landed on a [ bleep ] aircraft carrier with a football stuffed cod piece. he spiked the football before the game had even started.

if bin laden had been killed on bush's watch, this would have been the ad you're running with. >> he was responsible for one of our darkest days, one of the most evil men in history. and i got him! that's right! me, george w. bush! he was all like, no, please, mr. president, i was all like, you're going down, texas style, because vengeance is a dish served barbecued! >> well, there's that. there is that. >> oh, please. >> good point. >> in a few minutes, brian williams will be here. >> yay! >> inside the situation room. >> that thing is going to be amazing. >> it will be good tonight. and next, tina brown and our good friend wes moore. keep it on "morning joe." with the spark cash card from capital one,

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the reason that the afghans have an opportunity for a new tomorrow is because of you. and the reason america is safe is because of you. i could not be prouder of you. and i want you to understand, i know it's still tough. i know the battle is not yet over. some of your buddies are going to get injured. and some of your buddies may get

killed. and there's going to be heartbreak and pain and difficulty ahead. but there's a light on the horizon. because of the sacrifices you've made. >> president obama yesterday in kabul. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle is still with us, along with michael steele in washington. and joining us onset ebest selling author and u.s. combat veteran wes moore, along with the editor-in-chief of "newsweek" magazine tina brown. and we should mention that the daily beast yesterday won the 2012 webby award for the best news online. >> great day for the beasties. >> what was your take on the president's speech yesterday? >> i thought the president gave a very important and powerful speech yesterday. i thought it was the one he gave to the troops. because i think it's really important to remember where we

were four years ago. in afghanistan. you know, it's not that afghanistan was the central point of terror 10 years ago. it was the central point of terrorism and al qaeda four years ago. and what the president said to the troops yesterday, because of the surge and their work, we now have the fact that taliban progress has been rolled back, that al qaeda leaders are more worried about if they are going to wake up in the morning than planning attacks in the united states. and also facts that major areas of afghanistan have been turned over. that's the truth about afghanistan where it was and where it is. however, the problem and the challenges that still arise in afghanistan have nothing to do with our amount of boots on the ground in afghanistan. the biggest challenge in afghanistan has to do with the fact that we still are dealing with president karzai and around the fact that the taliban still does not have any type of strategic partnership with the karzai government. that is where the long-term issues of afghanistan come from. >> do you think we've made lasting gains over the past four years?

do you think gains we've made with american blood or treasure are secure for the next four years? >> i think what we've done is actually created the -- we have done two things. a, created the space for some type of lasting gains to actually exist. the second thing is, we have accomplished the goal of making sure that al qaeda cannot return to afghanistan. we made sure that we have enough intelligence, human intelligence, and also with the ideas of night raids and also with the drones to make sure that a lasting al qaeda presence can now exist in afghanistan. you know, two, three years ago, you had leon panetta saying there are only 40 to 50 members of al qaeda in afghanistan. that was two or three years ago. there's a big difference between al qaeda and the taliban. do you really think we are making -- i don't mean to press you here. but do you really believe we are making lasting gains against the taliban when we all know the second we leave, whether it's 2012 or 2022 the pashtun, whether they call themselves the taliban or something else, the same people that were fighting the alexander the great will be right back? >> no. but i'm glad you are pressing the issue, because it's

important that we distinguish between al qaeda and the taliban. and that's -- and the part of the problem we've had thus far is there's been a slow roll back. this moving of the goal post as to what is our mission over there, what's the reason we are over there. >> it's getting rid of al qaeda. it's not getting rid of the taliban. >> that's right. it's getting rid of al qaeda. but the problem is what we have started to see is the longer distinguished mission about getting rid of the taliban and establishing a new government in afghanistan. that's the problem. militarily, we have accomplished what we set out to accomplish. >> right. >> but if is the goal is that we are going to make sure that the taliban does not have any type of future in afghanistan, a, that's not the original goal, and, b, it's extraordinarily difficult to accomplish. >> unfortunately, we changed our mission there and several years ago, and when we did, we basically turned our backs on the war that we'd already won. but we'll see what happens. and we can look at the president's speech. i want to quickly ask tina, front page of the financial

times, also "the new york times," you have got an extraordinary document coming out from parliament saying that rupert murdoch is not fit to run a global media company. what are the implications in great britain for that? >> well, that's a pretty devastating judgment. and obviously, starts to get at whether or not rupert murdoch will be able to retain his interest in b sky b. and certainly doesn't look as if he'll be able to get the rest of it, which was his original goal. but i have to say that i think in the report by inserting the words that he's unfit to run a company, which did not come with the blessing of everybody on that committee, it has really been inserted by tom watson, the labor mp, as he fought very hard to put those words in. it may have boomeranged on them. there is not unanimous agreement on that committee that those words apply to rupert murdoch. i think it's made is a very

partisan divide, and in a way that's great for rupert. now there's been a big political blowup in the uk saying this whole issue has become a partisan divide between labor and tory. you know, this is excessive. because, you know, you could argue what everyone thinks about rupert murdoch's conduct over this whole affair, he built b sky b. that is his company. he took all the risks. it was his vision in a sense that built that company. and, you know, he is a brilliant businessman. so to declare him unfit to run a media company is really a little bit excessive. >> but it was a major headline that it was said, even if it was controversial. >> it is a major headline. it's been a very humiliating period for the whole murdoch enterprise. he's had to sit there having basically rotten eggs thrown at him day after day and has really had his whole kind of process of manipulation and, you know, that fehrious techniques exposed.

>> what happens with this, the clear divide within his company, over whether to hang on to the print product in the murdoch empire? >> well, i think that when rupert goes, the company will totally dispense with the print. no doubt that print is still with the company is because of rupert murdoch. he is the one that cares. it's his wheelhouse. >> and he actually loses money on print for the most part, right? >> he certainly loses money on "the new york post" here. and he's -- he made a lot of mono "the news of the world" which he had to close down in the wake of the phone hacking. that was a huge blow to the company because "the news of the world" was a cash cow for the company. it was doing extraordinarily well. it's become too much of a hornet's nest for the company to care about print. it's a dying business. and there's a lot of conflict inside about keeping it at all. but james murdoch was also completely caught up in this thing, really being a novice to the situation.

he was sent to run the papers in the uk. he really didn't know anything about the papers in the uk and he blew it. >> well, actually going along those lines, what has been the impact on the murdoch family and also on this larger idea of business dynasties and what exactly that looks like after, you know, after this scandal? >> in the case of james murdoch, it's interesting, it reminds me of the fall of mubarak, pushing his son forward. in his desire to have james as the heir, it really has backfired because james is not the skillful operator that rupert is. he did pretty well at b sky b. but when he was put into the newspapers, he didn't know what he was doing. he didn't understand that culture. and he didn't ask any questions. you know, it's a question of how much he knew. but i think that at the very best you could say about him was he was as they say willfully blind. >> tina, the cover of "newsweek" is "america is winning and why."

i think that could be arguable and debatable too. but what's the context? >> well, daniel gross, a terrific financial journalist, has really done a piece saying that the declinism that is such a fashionable mood at the moment is in fact misplaced that, during this whole period of the great recession, americans and private companies have figured out ways to be faster, do things more economically, do things with fewer people, and in fact have improved their efficiencies to the point that profits are doing extraordinarily well and that is the turn-around has happened, it's just not been acknowledged. in terms of a healthy comy and compared to other economies like for instance in europe, his view and his whole position is that america is absolutely back. >> wow. michael steele, i take it there might be some republicans, especially those running for office, who might take issue with that assertion. >> i think you're right.

i think the proof still lies, you know, at the kitchen table. and how americans feel ultimately about their own lifestyles, their own economic well-being. and i think, you know, the idea that this declinism is, you know, misplaced, may be true. but it is not misplaced for the untold millions of folks who still have not found jobs. that's going to be the dynamic, i think, that sort of pivots off tina's point for this fall campaign. we talk about afghanistan today. we are talking about the karzai government and all of that. but this thing is still going to pivot back to when you get to labor day, what's going on in america's kitchen tables, what's going on in american businesses, and how they truly feel about this president's handling of the economy and the money that has been spent, the $5 trillion of debt that is now going to be paid by future generations, all of that comes back into play and that declinism will be front and center. >> mike barnicle, it's really a tale of two americas.

the u.s. is better, stronger, and faster than anywhere else in the world. and the first graphic is 104% increase in the s&p since march of 2009. well, yeah. the tech companies are doing great. we dominate the world. and we are more productive than ever before. and we lead the world in the i.t. revolution. but that i.t. revolution has created a more productive work force, which means less jobs for millions and millions of working class americans. >> right. you can go company after company. >> that's a great challenge. >> you can go company after company that have become more profitable in the last two or three years. you can see through their reports that the economy is coming on a slow uptick. and yet that has resulted in massive layoffs in company after company after company. and you have pieces as appear in "newsweek" by people who think big thoughts and can point out that, yes, the united states is

stronger and more efficient than it ever has been before, but that does very little to address what i think is a huge issue out there in the country, and it's the anxiety level among ordinary people about their immediate future. not what the dow is going to look like, you know, two years from now. their immediate future. this week. >> and, wes, this is -- again, politicians don't talk about this. so americans don't hear it when we are debating the future. but the problem is that we've gone from an industrial-based economy to an i.t.-based economy. the millions and millions of troops that came home after world war ii and went to factory floors and were members of unions and were able to give their families good, decent wages for a hard day's work done. well, those jobs are done now. and the challenge is bringing back those kind of jobs. and i don't know that we can ever do it. >> america is faster, stronger, more efficient for those who are educated. >> right.

exactly. >> that's the key. education is the key to all of this. and what's happening is for so many of the jobs that we have lost, if you look at the unemployment rate for people with college degrees, it's actually stayed relatively flat in this country. the unemployment rate for people with college degrees is around 5.7% in this country right now. the unemployment rate for those without high school degrees is hovering around 18%. so the job losses we've seen are not necessarily for people with college degrees. they are generally doing ok. it's people without even high school degrees. they are not. >> that's why it's so staggering, when romney said the other day, you know, get an education, borrow $20,000 from your parents, start a business. that was flabbergasting because that's the whole issue, the two issues right there. you can't afford to get a good education. and, you know, you certainly can't borrow $20,000 from your parents. >> that's also what we're seeing too. >> tina brown, i want to show you a piece here. this is about our friend, dan rather.

dan has written a book that's causing a lot of people concern. not just inside of cbs but outside of cbs. they think there are some things that were said here that should have been left unsaid. and maury grove, also a friend of ours, wrote about dan rather's white whale. talk about this biography, autobiography that dan has put out. >> well, in this piece, you know, dan says to lloyd that he still feels very unfairly treated by cbs and when he was fired over the question of the story that he did over the matt bush having dodged out of the national guard. you know, dan is very much obsessed by this. i think what he feels strongly, but the trouble is it was undermined by not being able to prove it. he feels strongly that the story was correct, and the documents

over which there is so much controversy, they were never proved to be forged. he still maintains he was right and was ill treated by cbs. but that is the biggest problem for him, that the story wasn't rapped up. you know, if you don't have -- if you make a charge as big as that and you cannot actually in a really concrete way prove that it was true, unfortunately for him, the story, you know, wasn't wrapped up enough. >> mike, we're going to have dan on next hour. and we're excited to have him on. but, you know, there aren't a lot of people out there that don't think that the documents weren't forged, that people that looked at the documents very early said they were. i wonder if dan just feels like cbs didn't come to his defense enough. >> obviously, he feels that way. and i can certainly understand why he feels that way. he has a career, a life, spent

honorably in the professional of journalism. without a flaw, without a blemish. but now we live in an age, you know, with google and texting and everything, where you can select just one element, one day, one hour, of a person's career, and define that person by that one element. i don't think so. but that's what we do. that's what we do. >> yes. and it's not fair to dan that his entire career ended that way. i agree on that. and he's doing some superb work now. >> he's doing great work. >> and actually, you have to admire that the fact that he is doing this work, working with kids, working with hardly any budget. he could just retire and sit by a swimming pool, but he is actually out there because he is a great newsman. and he wants to keep doing it. >> like mika said, still a reporter. michael steele, as we move forward, what should the republicans do on afghanistan, on the debate over the past week over the killing of bin laden?

do you agree with me that we should just move on? >> yeah. >> stop engaging here and talk about jobs, talk about unemployment, talk about kick starting america's economy? >> i think the president has got a very strong case that can be made and has been made to the american people about his handling of foreign affairs, particularly the war on terror, particularly afghanistan. i don't think it serves the ultimate goal of the romney presumed, you know, campaign and administration to have this kind of conversation focus back on your strength right now. talking about those anxieties as mike pointed out that the american people have about jobs, have about their economic futures. because that's going to be the real nub of the argument going forward. you know, we take a moment to pause, celebrate the killing of the -- the anniversary of the killing of osama bin laden. let's move on beyond that. let's get out of this conversation about politicizing. look, president bush landed on an aircraft carrier.

president obama stood before, you know, the backdrop of a military, you know, base. that's fine. move past that. focus on the economy. focus on addressing the concerns about college to igzs, the cost of groceries, the cost of gas, and what this administration has failed to do in creating jobs. >> mike, real quick? >> you know, joe, one thing that hasn't been mentioned, we haven't mentioned it today but we have mentioned it in the past, about the president's speech and about afghanistan and the disruption in the al qaeda network within afghanistan, we've talked about in the past, but we haven't talked about it today and it's an important element. the taliban, it's their country. that's where they live. it's their country. not ours. >> and as one very high-ranking administration official told me a year ago, talking about the frustration of a long-term commitment to afghanistan, he said, you know what the taliban is, joe? and i said what's that?

he said, pissed off pashtun. and guess what? they have been there for thousands of years. and they will be there for thousands of years after we leave. >> i remember when i was fighting over in afghanistan, we heard an expression where they said, you americans, you have the watches, but we have the time. >> that's always been true. michael steele, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> good to see you. >> good to see you guys. up next, we'll ask nbc's brian williams about his unprecedented access to the white house situation room. >> willie is gazing at the great man himself. >> oh, look at this. this is exciting! >> he does that so well. coming up, what president obama told him about the raid that killed osama bin laden. you're watching "morning joe." i want healthy skin for life.

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it's not a slam dunk yet? >> it's not a slam dunk. at this point, i think all of us understand that we're a long way to go before the night is done. and, you know, i've said this was the longest 40 minutes of my life. >> and to coin a phrase, all you know is you have a blackhawk down. it's in the court yard. it turns out to have been superbly piloted by a pilot who knew to nose it into the dirt to kill the torque of the landing. >> right. >> and cushion everyone onboard. >> right. >> just -- >> and i will tell you, when i saw that pilot, i gave him a pretty big hug. >> that's great. 23 past the hour. >> hold on. >> go ahead. >> did you see what brian did right there?

>> if you're going to call me out, tuck in your shirt, and then do it. >> what brian did, he took a phrase from popular culture. he connected the kids. >> that is what i do. >> connected the kids. blackhawk down. >> i just got really tired. >> not so much the kids as it was a popular movie about a decade ago. >> i think it was 1989. but -- >> what's with the shirt? is it just exhausting to tuck it in? >> he came in here with the same shirt that willie had on, so he ran off and changed and came back looking dishevelled. that's the excuse, but in general -- >> well, that will explain it. if you'd rather talk about my shirt, we can do that. >> harrison ford in "working girl" and just whip it off in front of everybody. movie reference number two. >> brian williams, have you been to the movies since 1989? >> i am mr. movie. my wife and i are constantly at

the movies. but the callbacks are ok. they make a morning show more interesting. >> i see. i understand. speaking of congressmen, what congressional district is wes moore from? >> i have called this guy congressman since i have known him. i said at ta dinner i was introducing wes in new york, there's a senator here in new york that they might as well just put their paperwork in now. rhodes scholar. veteran of our armed forces. >> amazing. >> best selling author. >> a "morning joe" regular. like a left hook from old man frasier. >> ok. have you had enough of this, boys? >> mayor of baltimore. >> they verdict well one of those. >> i've seen "the wire." that's a good job. >> i'm sort of excited about

brian's show tonight of his special, "inside the situation room" tonight at 9:00 eastern, 8:00 central. of course, brian is here with us now, anchor and manager of "nbc nightly news." tell us a little bit first about the access that you got. seems fairly unprecedented. >> well, we asked to talk to everybody in the picture. the iconic picture of the situation room during the raid. turns out it's a small conference room as part of the situation room. turns out the walls are suede, by the way. >> suede? >> to dampen the audio. the sound. ceilings are very low. we take you on a complete tour. television cameras have never been allowed inside before. there is the president and me walking in the room. in the corner, pete suza, the white house photographer who took the picture.

the president turns to him and said, at what point did you take the photo? people are guessing it's during the helicopter going down, but it's not clear. that's how small the room is, using a fish eye lens. we interview all of those people about that day, that night, the tension, the chances it could have gone bad, what happened when they lost one of the helicopters. it's an extraordinary kind of public record of this raid. we learned things routinely in our interviews that i was sitting there picking off, well, that hasn't been made public. that hasn't been made public. so we now have it. >> can you give us an idea? >> no. for security reasons, i can't share anything with you. >> you're going to show it tonight, brian. >> well, the stealth blackhawk. i'm an aviation geek. so the minute those first pictures appeared of the tail rotor section of that blackhawk that went up and over the stone wall, we knew this was an aircraft we had never seen before. and those of us who have spent many hours in blackhawks, they are the bus of these two

conflicts. they move men and women by the hundreds every day back and forth. the stealth program rumored for 10 to 20 years to be underway at the skunk works. and finally, we see these exotic helicopter parts. we learned that the head of the joint chiefs called pakistan and said, we need all those pieces back. we didn't blow the whole helicopter on our way out, if you could just save that for us. >> let's keep the segment moving along. without you two talking. >> what? i was going to ask, what kind of suede? >> no. see, it's just not necessary. >> just a wall. >> so like your shoes? >> what, do you want to accessorize? just like suede. tuck in your shirt. >> here is a clip of president obama recalling the moment that he told former president george w. bush about osama bin laden's death. >> you place a call to george w. bush 43, on whose watch the attack happened, and what was

that like? >> well, you know, i think that it was an important symbol of who we are as a people. we get into these partisan fights. administrations come and go. but there is a certain continuity about who we are and what we care about and what our values are. and for me to be able to call my predecessor and say a lot of the work that you did under your administration was continued in my administration and there's that constant thread that ultimately leads to justice being done, i think it was symbolic of how our government should work. >> brian, that's not just important tape for a news show that's going to air tonight. that's important for history, because you haven't had a lot of reporters that have been able to

get the president to be drawn out. to show us this side of barack obama and george w. bush's relationship. history will be quoting that interview. and, wow, that's -- i think that's encouraging in these days of partisan rancor to hear one president talk about another one that way. >> thank you. it is fascinating. he talks about the list of people they had to call in order. presidents, committee chairs, members of congress, anyone they didn't want to read about it in the papers. the list was drawn up in advance. but mrs. obama is at dinner with friends. no one could tell their spouses. this was such a close hold. the president couldn't talk with former presidents about it. he kept his own counsel. because there was a chance they had to scrub it and go again six months later. and they are jeopardizing the lives of 50 of the finest americans ever put on the field of battle. >> wow.

>> brian, there's been a lot of talk this week in fact about just how tough a call it was. a lot of republicans saying it was an obvious call. you have a chance to get osama bin laden, do you it. mitt romney said yesterday, of course i would have made that call. do you get a sense not just from talking to the president but from the others in the room of how tough a call it actually was? was there a moment where they said maybe we ought to pull back and not do this? >> there were no votes. there was dissension. biden tells us during the hour, i said -- he says there wasn't enough evidence bin laden was there. there were three options. air strike from above, no insertion of troops, you may never get proof of death. commando raid, where we use actually live, living breathing humans to go in, and/or do nothing and wait it out. and there were different votes. and the president's so-called ex-com. and there was should one night on a thursday he went to bed, and he said i'll have my decision for you 8:20 tomorrow morning.

and, you know, i asked him, how do you -- what do you on a night when such a decision is due? and he said, you stay up late and wake up early. >> i think one of the other amazing things about this operation is the fact that unless you needed to know, no one knew about this operation. does the president go into what it was like keeping something so monumental so secret? >> we asked that of not only the president, but everybody in the picture. secretary clinton talks about the fact that she could not share this with her staff. president obama's secretary didn't know. and yet calls are coming in and he's going off to meetings. there were the entire white house senior staff didn't know. the entire state department senior staff didn't know. only need to know people on the pentagon payroll. and in a city as the congressman here knows that can't keep a secret ever -- >> ever. >> this secret was kept. we all of us who remember that night, i remember when the phone

call came from jay carney to my house. he said, you should get in the chair. i said to my wife, it must be gadhafi. this was out of nowhere. no one was thinking bin laden. it's why seth myers' joke at the correspondents dinner that weekend, we found bin laden anchors a show on cspan from 4:00 to 5:00 in the afternoon. that's why it was funny. it had fallen off our collective radar. >> yeah. absolutely had. >> so you heard, i guess, from everybody inside that room, which what i think is so fascinating is what joe biden had said before, that the president really was at the end of the day alone. that there was nobody around. and we also know about washington, everybody wants a backup. everybody wants a fallback position. everybody wants somebody to blame if something goes wrong. here the president was standing alone for republicans or democrats or everybody saying this was an easy call, no, he

was alone in a situation room where everybody else said, maybe you shouldn't take that shot. >> i said to the president, you know, i listened to the recorded phone conversations of president johnson. and now it can be told. lyndon johnson was always on the phone with, as he called him, general eisenhower. so was jack kennedy, calling general eisenhower. johnson would call president truman. part of that presidents club that was just written about. but the president said to me, i couldn't call my ex-presidents, just because of the possibility they would tell someone, someone would tell something, and then again, 50 lives, 50 american lives, they are going to fly in over pakistani air space and out again. >> wow. >> well, i want to ask about hillary clinton in that photograph. a lot has been made about what she was doing there. did they catch her at a moment where she just had her hand on her face or was she in a moment of shock as she watched one of the helicopters go down? what was happening right then

and there? >> noso you'll hear this moment when the president says, pete, do you remember when that was? suza says no. there is debate because general mullen says it couldn't have been when the chopper went down because i, admiral mullen, was out of the room on the telephone with an aspect of this mission. i came back in the room, the chopper was already down. and mullen is in the picture. so it's an interesting debate. i suppose pete suza would have to look at his digital camera, check the time code, against the audio presentation that they were watching in the big screen. we also show what they were watching in that small room. we pan around to show the electronics and depict as best we can, including pictures of that night that have never been published. this is an hour we're enormously proud of, and really not to sound too lofty, it adds to the public record of what is known

for this raid, the signature event of the last several years. >> no doubt about it. and a remarkable way. is this one of the highlights of your journalistic career? >> well, considering that there was -- there came a time when we knocked on the situation room door and you heard the electronic lock open, and as a civilian, to walk inside there, and then say to our cameras, come on in. 50 years it's been there. and no one has been able -- i give a walking tour of the inside of the place. to say nothing of having free reign of the white house hallways, being around any president is for those of us in this line of work extraordinary. so, yes. mrs. williams' little boy brian gets to do some amazing exploits on the job. >> it was amazing you were given that access. one only hopes that your shirt was tucked in. >> always. >> was it? >> i was raised right, joe. >> i have a feeling that your

shirt is tucked and starched even when you go to sleep. >> wasn't raised by wolves, brian. >> mom, brian brian williams just compared to you wolves. >> she can take it. i have met your mother. she would want you to tuck in your shirt. you are a former congressman. he is future common. tucked in. squared away. served in the u.s. military. >> sometimes he wears a fleece. filthy fleece. >> a man who is obsessive. >> the winter fleece thing, just rolled out of bed look, is not my favorite either. >> no, right. >> i think we're talking about an obsessive compulsive disorder that you need help for. inside the situation room airs tonight on nbc's rock center with brian williams at 9:00 eastern. 8:00 p.m. central. >> that's going to be amazing. >> brian, i know you're not a morning person. >> i'm loving this, though. i'm having a blast. miles to go before i sleep. >> oh, god. sarcasm. we'll be right back. >> all right.

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it's by far the largest in such a remote area, which means problems for the environment. the tanker, the exxon valdese, had just unloaded crude. it was about 25 miles from the valdese terminal and was apparently trying to dodge ice floes when it ran aground. alaska's governor, steve cooper, said there's not equipment in all of north america to clean up the spill. and one leading oil pollution expert was not optimistic. >> the cleanup will be a nightmare most likely. the impact on the environment also promises to be severe. >> 45 past the hour. that was in 1989. "nbc nightly news" report on the exxon valdese spill in alaska.

here with us now, staff writer for the new yorker and president of the new america foundation, pulitzer prize winning author steve coll. he has a new book now, "private empire: exxon mobil and american power." tell us about the book. you start with the 1989 valdese oil spill. it was 11 million gallons of oil into the prince william sound, and clearly defined the company's future. >> it was a huge trauma, much as the deep water horizon in 2010 was for bp. and it ushered in a transformation in the way exxon mobil managed itself. they used the crisis to reform all of their systems and make themselves the most disciplined operator in the business. but it also signalled the era ahead for them, the most hated oil company in the united states for a good while. struggling with a political and public affair strategy to manage a position where they were

constantly in opposition, being oposse opposed by environmentalists and really never able to recover their reputation. they would run focus groups with people and say exxon, and the first thing people would say in reply was valdese. that was kind of a black eye for these operators. >> you spent a lot of time with the ceo, lee raymond, who had a nickname. >> iron ass, if one can say that. >> you just did. >> i did. >> why was he the iron ass? >> he was a very direct, blunt, disciplinarian, seen by his peers as the most effective ceo of his era. he did not suffer fools easily. he would often say to challengers, frankly, you were advised to duck because he was coming at you often in a very direct way.

but he was someone who was able to work his will on a very large bureaucracy. exxon mobil was pretty settled in its ways, a conservative company, effective in some respects, but he really wanted to remake it, and he used the valdese crisis to basically force change from top to bottom in the corporation. >> mike? >> you mentioned focus groups. and the title of the book, "private empire," most of us, i think most people probably think of exxon as an american company, which it is. and yet the reach, the sprawl, the global reach of this company, is kind of staggering, is it not? >> and that's what's interesting about what the company, i think, in substantial part. we live in a world where governments matter less, companies matter more, terrorist networks, all of these nonstate actors really rule our world. and large multinational corporations are more influential relatively than ever before. and partly for the reason you describe, which is that they really are global.

exxon mobil sees itself as a sovereign, an independent sovereign. i came to think of them in relation to the united states government as sort of like france. sometimes they are aligned with us, sometimes they are opposed. often they are trying to keep their distance and run their own kind of world. and that in part is rooted in their view that they owe shareholders their allegiance, not any state. >> so by definition of their affluence and their obligation to shareholders and their reach, their global sprawl, and their wealth, there has to be more than a touch of arrogance to a company like that. >> that's their reputation in the business. also, they are very effective operators. they have a fixed idea of how to do things. other companies see them as arrogant. this frustrates exxon mobil. they say we are just trying to be correct. but they are seen as not great partners. they don't have a reputation for great partnership. but their record does speak for itself. you know, obviously, the oil business is a pretty good business. it's kind of hard to muck it up

when prices are rising as they have been recently. but exxon mobil today has a aaa credit rating. the united states government does not. there are only three or four companies in the united states that have a aaa rating. four co the united states has a aaa rating. >> i was a huge fan of your book because i think you added a context to afghanistan that people did not understand prior. what are you hoping that people take away as the context of this story? >> thanks. i'm interested in how the world works. it is fundamental to our lives in the united states. i was motivated in a similar way to try to understand where the 9t/11 attacks had come from in some deeper way. i hope that this story in all its fullness will give american readers a sense of what lies behind that gas pump every time

they go out to it and squeeze out $4 a gallon. >> the book is "private empire." you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. today, we stand against the tyranny of single mile credit cards. battle speech right? may i? [ horse neighs ] for too long, people have settled for single miles. with the capital one venture card, you'll earn double miles on every purchase, every day! [ visigoths cheer ] hawaii, here we come. [ alec ] so sign up today for a venture card at capitalone.com. and start earning double. [ all ] double miles! [ brays ] what's in your wallet? can you play games on that?

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had to suddenly explain to their children why they had just shouted at the tv, [ bleep ] yeah. bin laden was the first event in 2011 to bring us together which is why this ad is tearing us apart. >> this administration is not above politicizing any issue. >> politicizing. >> waa. i have a question. are you on crack? bush landed on a [ bleep ] aircraft carrier.

he swept the football before the game had started. if bin laden had been killed on bush's watch this would have been the ad. >> he was responsible for one of our darkest days, one of the most evil men in history. >> and i got him. that's right, me. he was like no, please mr. president and i was all like you are going down texas style. i'm george w. bush and i sure as hell approve this message. >> up next reaction to president obama's trip to afghanistan. keep it right here on "morning joe." this at&t 4g network is fast.

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it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. that will put a smile on your face. back with us on set, oil supplier mike barnacle and from washington michael stele. >> a new suicide attack by the taliban this morning under scores the long-term challenges facing afghanistan. at least 11 people were killed today hours after the president left the country.

president obama met with u.s. troops and later addressed the nation with his vision for ending america's longest war. >> my fellow americans we have travelled through more than a decade under the dark cloud of war. we can see the light of a new day on the horizon. the iraq war is over. the number of our troops in harm's way has been cut in half and more will soon be coming home. we have a clear path to fulfill our mission in afghanistan while delivering justice to al qaeda. >> the president said the defeat of al qaeda is "within reach" and pushback gives an advantage to the enemy. >> as we move forward some people will ask why we need a firm timeline. the answer is clear. our goal is not to build a country in america's image or to eradicate every vestige of the

taliban. these objectives would require many more years, many more dollars and most importantly many more american lives. our goal is to destroy al qaeda and we are on a path to do exactly that. afghans want to assert their sovereignty and build a lasting peace. that requires a clear timeline to wind down the war. others will ask why don't we leave immediately. that answer is also clear. we must give afghanistan the opportunity to stabilize otherwise our gains could be lost and al qaeda could establish itself once more. as commander in chief i refuse to let that happen. i recognize that many americans are tired of war. as president nothing is more wrenching than signing a letter to the family of the fallen or looking into the eyes of a child who will grow up without a mother or father.

i will not keep americans in harm's way a single day longer than is absolutely required for our national security but we must finish the job we started in afghanistan and end this war responsibly. >> the president's remarks followed the signing of a ten-year strategic partnership agreement with president karzai. >> i wouldn't want to get into a ten-year agreement with that guy. we just did. >> the agreement will provide. >> soon to be a 30-year agreement. >> the agreement will provide u.s., economic and social aid through 2024. security assistance and training and assurances that permanent u.s. bases would not be built in the country. some would remain in afghanistan after 2014 to target al qaeda. it doesn't lay out financial

commitments. >> so security guarantees through 2024 troops are going to be there. troops will be in afghanistan in 2024 that were not even alive and not even born on september 11, 2001. richard, break apart the president's talk yesterday. what do you think? >> it is interesting to go back a couple of years ago when the president gave his policy and said we are going to get in heavily and in 18 months we are going to start to get out. what he did yesterday was say we are going to get out but stay in. what we have all along is the tension in the president's afghan policy. what he announced last night in this new partnership agreement is another ten years. iraq we got out completely. some criticism. here we are going to have

residual force. what is the size of the force? what is the size of the afghan force? who is going to pay for the afghan force? and questions about how this should work? also corruptions in the karzai division. after the president left the taliban show no sign of letting up. i think the rationales are still weak. we seem to be staying because of everything we done we can't leave responsibly and echoes peace with honor in vietnam. the strategic questions about what it is we are trying to do. why do we need to do this in afghanistan if we are worried about al qaeda? what is so different now about afghanistan than yemen, somalia, libya. >> afghanistan is not essential now to al qaeda cooperation as

yemen. you can't compare afghanistan to vietnam anymore because vietnam lasted a decade. we are going to go two decades at least in afghanistan. we have just recommitted through 2024. it's what we were worried about around this table when the president was talking about tripling the number of troops this is what we warned about. >> the president outlined a plan that was first outlined by now vice president joe biden. biden this was his plan for afghanistan to scale down front line troops who are there on a daily basis, go to special ops over an extended period of time. there was an understandable vagueness to it because you are

dealing with a really unreliable ally in president karzai. the corruption, the unease of the relationship between the united states and karzai's afghanistan. what is the ultimate goal? to bring a -- >> let me look at something. you asked what is the ultimate goal. we have been asking foreign policy. >> what is it. >> administration officials, the late richard holbrook, everybody for years. what is the goal in afghanistan? they don't have a goal in afghanistan. you know why? because it's not about afghanistan. it's about pakistan. it's ridiculous. we had a goal and that goal was to rid afghanistan of al qaeda's power structure. we succeeded. and then we moved. and then we moved the goal post. and now it is to rebuild the

country. we are going into another decade partnership with one of the most corrupt leaders in the planet. it makes no sense. we are wasting $2 billion a week and young americans are dying every week. >> we did move the goal post in afghanistan for getting rid of al qaeda to a version of nation building. it is not clear that what happens in afghanistan is central to pakistan. one can argue what happens in pakistan is essential to its future. one other thing that is not clear is the nature of the american commitment to afghanistan. as u.s. forces begin to wind down there and the afghan government gets in trouble to what extent now is the united states linked to the future of this karzai successor. it is a partnership agreement. to what extend is united states

hitched to the web to afghanistan. >> now that you see it in print the time frame is staggering. 2024. you think october 7th, 2001 is when we first went into afghanistan. 23 laters we will still be in afghanistan. >> we will still be in afghanistan when george who is two years old is in high school. let's bring in jack jacobs, msnbc military analyst. i want to pick up on the conversation we were having earlier this morning about what this means practically. the line out there is that 2014 is the end of combat. we know there will be united states troops and young men and women in harm's way. >> when you think about the things that you guys are talking about around the table it looks

a lot like vietnam. i think after 1970 combat troops came out of vietnam. i was there in '72 and in january '73 was still there with the vietnamese air borne division. combat ain't over. the second thing is that no matter what americans we have over there, advisors, special forces, special operation forces to control the air strikes and all the rest of that stuff there are no front lines and they are all going to get shot at, too. >> that is just the reality of afghanistan. if you are fighting in afghanistan there is no front line that you can hide from.

the entire country is a front line and the president guaranteed last night that young americans will be getting shot at and killed in afghanistan for another 12 years. what is distressing to me is the fact, though, michael, that while i was against the president's plan to triple the number of troops and a lot of conservatives were against the president keeping these forces here the republican party, our party has been even more hawkish, i would say irresponsible saying the president isn't taking a tough enough line. i guess the question is, do they want us to stay there another century? >> this is a great example of how washington d.c. is so out of touch with the majority of americans. >> i think you're right there, joe. i think your piece really put this in two very clear perspectives. you talked about it already.

we are going to be there until 2024. the political ramifications of that particularly given where this president was in 2008 as he campaigned i want to get us out of afghanistan. i want to move america back to renewing itself which he touched on last night. how do you do that when we are spending $2 billion a week in current dollars and when americans are sending sons to a foreign land that the soviets and the british -- >> what do we do with our -- >> the greeks couldn't do it. >> the british empire couldn't do it. what do we say to our own nominee? mitt romney? what do we say to republican congressman who are saying this president is being too weak in afghanistan?

it's mind boggling. >> that's going to be a very interesting conversation once the president gets back here on the soil to have the political engagement on this. they have already set this thing up with the commercial last week with the video with president clinton talking about the work this president has done in this area. the republicans have supported and pushed this. you put it very correctly the neocons won and now we are going to have to live with that and justify this expense when everyone knows there is no end game here. >> by the way, that is a take away from last night. the neocons one. >> somebody here at this table tell me what a better alternative is since this is unwinnable and there is no other answer, no alternative. >> what would be a better policy is to accelerate what we are going to do by the end of 2014

and make sure whatever the residual force is modest. there is no reason what we do in afghanistan should be larger than what we do in yemen, somalia. it should be limited training. there is no such thing as a central front anymore. there is nothing particularly special about this real estate. what we need to do is scale down the level of effort what is achievable. >> democrats attack george w. bush. barack obama did the same thing in afghanistan in 2010 when he decided to triple the number of troops. because as richard said that afghanistan is not the front in the war against terror. it was a decade ago. it's not now. we are spending so much money,

so much time, so much energy. we're impacting the united states military's readyiness in a country that is not the center of the global war on terror anymore. it's reckless. what should we have done? what richard just said except we should have started it three years ago. don't act shocked today. >> i'm not acting shocked. >> we gave that alternative three years ago and that was don't triple the number of troops in afghanistan. don't double down on a bad idea. start phasing the troops out. >> and jack jacob. >> so now we are extending this a decade. >> good. okay. let me take your point to jack jacob and ask jack what would be the ramifications of what joe just said and from walking away from a partnership with karzai. >> i think everybody thinks

karzai is there for the short duration. i think what richard just said as a better option is exactly what is going to happen. i think that is exactly what is going to happen. we will withdraw sooner rather than later. there are plans already on the books to not start withdrawing in 2014, starting to pull them out soon and by 2014 have the large majority of conventional troops out of there. i think that is exactly what this administration is going to do. if this president does not get reelected i would be willing to bet given the restrictions that congress is putting on things i think that is exactly whatever the next president is going to do. >> i mean, seriously the president may talk about getting the troops out. you watch when he tries to get the troops out. there is a reason twhwhy the neocons were celebrating this speech last night.

they get in line behind the president of the united states because they know the president set up a framework. we are going to be there until 2024 and good luck when we start trying to remove the troops. >> i disagree with mike a little bit on the fact that this will not be a part of the political debate. i think it will be an ironic twist where i think it will be reemphasized by mitt romney and others of the validity of doing what the president wants to do. i think the neocon desire to complete the mission in afghanistan which i always found to be curious. i don't know what that is. >> it's staying there forever. coming up dan rather joins us to talk about his new memoir. and good news for you. >> donnie's coming?

>> maybe duct tape on his mouth. here is bill with a check on the forecast. >> maybe you could throw it together. me? come on. good morning. we are watching two areas of rain. one light rain across jersey going to enter the city shortly. we have seen thunderstorms in maryland. milwaukee just got hit by thunderstorms. chicago some showers for you over the next hour and a lot of heavy rain south of des moines. here is the concern today. if you are out there from omaha to des moines a moderate risk of severe storms. and anywhere in that yellow tongue through chicago, detroit, pittsburgh and d.c. you could see strong storms later today. it will be an active day of thunderstorms especially this afternoon into this evening. if you are on the west coast from california southwards you are dry and beautiful.

texas looks great along with florida. severe storms will be the bigger story. tomorrow we will continue that threat. i think two stormy days in a row especially around the great lakes. a lot of afternoon plans and evening plans washed out from heavy thunderstorms. you're watching "morning joe." it's a cloudy, foggy start in d.c. thunderstorms this afternoon. we are brewed by starbucks.

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we shared a lot in the 24 years we have been meeting here. before i say good night this night i need to say thank you. thank you to the thousands of wonderful professionals at cbs news past and present with whom it's been my honor to work over these years. to my fellow journalists in places where reporting the truth means risking all. and to each of you, courage. for the cbs evening news, dan rather reporting. good night. >> that was cbs rather dan rather signing off back in 2005. dan is now the anchor managing editor of hd nets dan rather reports. we suspect dan will be going to afghanistan soon. he is out with his new book "rather outspoken, my life in

the news." your publisher loves this fact, i'm sure. a lot of controversy surrounding this book. a lot of people saying you need to just let it go. i know you probably heard that from a lot of your friends, just let the end at cbs go. you had such a long and honorable career. why did you feel like you needed to go back and tell your story? >> it is way behind me. i have moved on a long time ago. it is one reason i didn't write the book right away. i'm at peace now. i have never had more passion for what i do. i work every day. i wrote this book because i think on my better days i'm a pretty good story teller and i have a few stories to tell. i talk about civil rights, vietnam, presidents i have interviewed, a lot of that and what it is like to work in a new

environment. >> that can take up two books right there. >> it takes up one chapter in this book. i did want to include in this book my side of what happened at cbs news, what really happened as opposed to what a lot of people think happened and how the story broke was a prelude to what happened with the bush story. what i have to say is in the book. i moved past it a long time ago. i can't emphasize how much at peace i am now. in my career this is my most satisfying time because i have total complete editorial control. >> i should say up front my father works at cbs news and has the utmost respect for dan. dan rather was an icon in our house. you had such a dignified career

as a journalist, the jfk assassination, i see you in vietnam and afghanistan and all the way up. did you worry that your legacy as you talk about this publicly, do you worry that people are going to remember the end rather than the rest of your career? >> i don't worry about it because i never believed that anybody in television present company excluded will have any legacy. everything in television is a role. i have been a reporter for more than 60 years and played the game and edited at the top for a long time. i don't think there is a legacy. edguard moro is probably the only person in electronic journalism who had a true legacy. it is foolish to think about legacy. i think about the next story. i still have a driving curiosity and passion for what i do.

i don't think about legacy. i think about the next story. >> we are talking briefly about this off the air, the aspect of your life, your story and the culture that we are all a part of in that you have had and still have this tremendously honorable career across all of these decades going to afghanistan in a few days, 14th or 15th time covering a major story, war in our times. yet we live in an age not just with you but one second of that career, one day, one hour of that career can be extracted and built up by elements of the culture around us trying to define an entire career. there is a danger in that. >> i agree with you. i would. i think it is something people can pull back for what we call the wide shot and think about that with the internet and all

the advantages -- i'm a great believer in the internet. one down side is that anonymous people frequently organized for partisan purposes and ideology can blow up your reputation. you can be a plumber or a welder or businessman and if your neighbor doesn't like you he can virtually destroy you by putting out all kinds of misinformation lies about you and that moment it's frozen in time and many people identify you with that moment. it's true. >> got to fight back. let's talk about other parts of the book. you talk about the presidents that you have known. you begin with dwight eisenhower. a president you got to cover at the end of his term because of a lucky break. >> i have been really lucky. i have interviewed every president since harry truman.

eisenhower was one of my favorites and the interview lasted about a minute and 15 seconds max. it was the last minute in hawaii when he was there. it is time for me to have some perspective on these things. one of my favorite chapters in the book in terms of writing it was what was my experience with these people and what i thought of them including president obama whom i don't know well. we have been really lucky as a country and blessed. we have never had an evil president. i know people want to say richard nixon was. you don't put that on him. we have had presidents who were trying to do the right thing. you look back over the sweep of the last half century and that's what comes through loud and clear to me. we really were blessed because we never had an evil president. >> you, of course, you

identified the assassination. you said there is not another event that captured the world at one moment more than jfk's assassination, that it was like no other. and i guess looking back over the span of your career, would you agree with that? >> i would agree with that in terms of a short compact story rather than an on going developing story like say afghanistan and our relationship with china. the only thing close to it would be 9/11. i was in dallas when president kennedy was assassinated. anybody that was alive recalls what a hammer to the heart it was to find that the president had been shot at and hit and died. we lived in a post world war ii world up to that point where assassinations of leaders are things that happen in asia and

don't happen with us despite our history of having previous presidents assassinated. i think for the four dark days in dallas what you said is probably true. >> in your career we have had a lot of failed presidents. we had jfk not failed but ended tragically. lbj. richard nixon, jimmy carter defeat. are we too tough on our presidents? >> i think we are. and we can hear it and see it today in the reaction to president obama's appearance last night in kabul. whatever you think of it and personally i found it incomplete, all kinds of questions about what is he really talking about here. i think we are too tough on our presidents in some ways. there are times when we aren't tough enough on our presidents. we give them too much leeway. by and large i think we are too

tough on them. what mike referred to earlier particularly the president environment that somebody can put something out on the int internet about the president that isn't true. some of it sticks and makes it tougher for a president today. talk about jfk when he faced the cuban missile crisis he had 12 to 14 days. in today's environment a president has a half hour to 45 minutes. >> i guess there are a handful of people who had a front row seat to such a wide scope of history. here we are talking about harry truman and then going to afghanistan. do you feel like this country heeds the lessons of history well? we were talking about being in afghanistan until 2024 now at the latest which will be almost a quarter of the century after we arrive there. do modern day leaders look back

well enough at, say, vietnam, for example? >> no. modern day leaders don't and none of us do. afghanistan is different from vietnam in many ways. there is this similarity that we plunged into afghanistan. we plunged into iraq. our leaders know little about the history of the place and the culture. we continue to make that mistake rather than think it through and say wait a minute. we need to know more about what we are getting into here in afghanistan. everybody around this table knows afghanistan is a tribal society. it seldom if ever had any central leadership. we went in to do away with al qaeda and change the regime but we quickly morphed into saying we are going to remake this country pretty much in our own image which is what we try to do time and time again without

knowing the history of the culture. >> what an extraordinary career. what an extraordinary life and it continues. >> mike has had an extraordinary career himself. >> stunning honorable career. and the fact that in a few days he boards a plane to go to afghanistan is just -- that's dan rather. >> it continues. >> that's what dan rather has always been. >> can't wait for the next book. >> thank you so much. the book is "rather outspoken." you can get it on amazon.com or go to a local independent book store near you. from high brow to low brow from a great journalist to crusty the clown. donny deutsch joins us next. sorry. sore knee. blast of cold feels nice.

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welcome back to "morning joe." now would be the time to bring out the balloons. >> i see them. >> donny. >> happy birthday to you. >> that's nice. thank you. >> that's a pretty cake. it's so pretty.

♪ happy birthday dear mika. happy birthday to you ♪ >> thank you. >> that's nice, donny. your chef in the hamptons made this? >> no. i was up all night baking. mike came over late and we put the flowers on together. >> is that a red velvet cake? >> i can't believe -- >> i need a fork. >> mike, you have done this before. >> come on over and cut this thing up for us. >> is this a segment. >> my understanding was donny was going to pop out of the cake. >> how old are you? i am 20 years older than kate.

thank you, kate. i just talked to dan rather. >> savages. >> aren't i allowed to. it's my birthday. >> were you raised by wolves? >> i'm really not allowed to have this. >> what are you going to do today on your 29th birthday? >> i'm 45 and i love it. i'm going to own it. okay, donny. >> should she own it? >> i think that skpt i have always said this but i think women in their 40s -- >> i didn't ask you. >> why do you -- >> i think women in their 40s is the most beautiful, attractive sexiest time. >> i just want to cry now. >> you ruined it. >> i destroyed it. >> i got to go. coming up next we have business before the bell and more inappropriate comments from

donny deutsch. happy birthday, mika. >> happy birthday to you. dad, you are not meeting him looking like that.

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welcome back. 43 past the hour. time for a check on business before the bell with cnbc's michelle cabrera. you should see how we are eating this cake. there are no bakes. >> this is martha's bakery. >> is this not the best cake? >> it's cream cheese frosting. >> it melts in your mouth like butter for a good reason. it's butter. it's all butter. >> i usually have these moments in private. we are eating the cake just hunk by hunk. >> like when you are little. just grab it with your hand.

dip your finger in the frosting. >> exactly. >> you want to hear about business news? >> sure. >> the averages hit multi year highs. things aren't looking as good this morning. we have the abp 1 report. this is a private sector version of the report on friday. this is the mack daddy of data points every single month. we wait for it every month because it is a big measure of the economy. the data out this morning, bad. according to adp only 119,000 jobs created last month compared to 200,000 on average for the previous three months. that has put a little pressure on the averages. doesn't always match up with the government number on friday. we are getting really worried about that employment number on friday. the other thing we are talking about is black berry has introduced a black berry without

the keyboard. a lot of people stuck with black berry because they love the physical keyboard. their new one doesn't have a keyboard. >> so black berry is going the opposite way. did somebody fall off their motorcycle without a helmet on. >> that's the only reason we keep the black berry. >> they have other models. it's not like the iphone where there is only one iphone. black berry has several models. >> great marketing blunder just happened. >> i'm going to challenge you to be honest here. what do you think of siree? >> i'm pretty good on the keyboard. >> i don't think she is very nice. >> i'm the only man that she rejected and didn't answer. >> i asked her once what are you wearing and she responded why do you all ask me that.

>> that's pretty good. >> great to see you. thank you very much. >> happy birthday. >> more "morning joe" in just a moment. (female announcer) most life insurance companies

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12 months ago parents had to explain to their children why they had just shouted at the tv, [ bleep ] yeah! it was the first event since 2011 which brought us together which is why this ad subtly questioning his opponent's judgment that ad is tearing us apart. >> this administration is not above politicizing any issue for personal gain. >> politicizing. >> it is deplorable. >> waa. [ laughter ] >> waa. i have a question. are you on crack?

bush landed on a [ bleep ] aircraft carrier with a football stuffed cod piece. he spiked the football before the game had started. if bin laden had been killed on bush's watch this would have been the ad. >> he was responsible for one of our darkest days, one of the most evil men in history. >> and i got him. that's right, me. george w. bush. he was like please mr. president and i was all like you are going down texas style. i'm george w. bush and i sure as hell approve this message. >> how are you feeling as an ad guy and image guy about the president right now after this week? >> there is a little ching in the arm. i started with last week with the ad about the supercelebrity.

some of these economic numbers and if this summer things are heading south economically -- i think he is bar far the favorite. i had him as a guarantee a few weeks ago. >> you don't feel that way now. >> let's talk about an event you are going to tonight. you are going to be honored at a jacob's cure gala. >> i had the privilege of meeting a young sick man jacob. you read about these diseases and then meet the people. there is nothing like a sick child. this is a debilitating disease. 200 kids a year die. it robs them from swallowing and motor skills. there are so many diseases that are marketed well for lack of a better word that get so much attention and so many smaller causes that effect moms. as parents when there is a sick

child there is nothing like it. there is this courageous woman whose child is now 13 years. if you can look it up and find it in their hearts to do something for it. there is no words as we all know as parents. this is one that is stem cell can, another reason why anyone is arguing stem cell research. >> it's jacob's cure.org. tonight's event is going to be hosted by kathy lee and hota. >> my dear friends. i love those girls. they are really special. >> thanks so much. go to the website. help if you can. up next what if anything did we learn today? . need any help?

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welcome back to "the daily rundown." it's time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned that martha's bakery makes a mean cake. >> it does. >> there is must see tv returns to nbc at long last. 9:00 eastern tonight. can't wait to see that. >> what did you learn? >> 45 is the new 25. >> what did you learn? >> i learned to celebrate mika's birthday i spilled cake. mike doesn't eat cake. he wears it. >> i shouldn't insult you all but i would say 45 is just fine. >> i learned brian williams is very obsessed with an untucked shirt. this is