ability to cash out. blending of government and profit is perfect. >> but doesn't that mean we only have one political party then? >> well we got two. one team, they are the guys in power, yeah. >> all right. well said, mr. carney. that does it for us on dylan ratigan. "hardball" up now. using romney, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews. in washington, leading off, tool of the taxpayers corporal to the neon cons. who is this man the republicans want as their president? is he deepful purpose or useful purpose? is he what norquist proposed, to put his signature on the tax cuts? would it be like w., mainly a mouth piece for the perineal

hawks? is mitt romney the common carrier of the right wingers agenda? is there "there "there or just a destination. why did romney's openly gay spokesman have to quit? why else, he is openly gay. and the family values times were having nothing of it. plus, hillary clinton and the drama in beijing over the blind chinese dissident. we have rarely seen in her four years of behind the scenes diplomacy, it is her chance to be visible, exquisite and right out front on the front pages if things go wrong. plus, why are republicans so frantic over the president's bin laden victory lap? simple, because the gop has been the national security daddy party for last 60 years and can't afford to lose ground. should they give that up and what's left? hope the economy tanks for them? let me finish tonight with whether mitt romney is the genuine article or the vessel. the money people the right wing

people intend to use once he's in office. we begin with mitt romney. michael steel, chairman of the republican party, probably still should be. howard fineman didn't think so. howard fineman from the huffington post media group, which grows by the moment, and also an msnbc political analyst. at the c pac conference, norquist laid out in clear an unimbiggus terms what his republican party expects from the president. whoever president happens to be. let's listen. >> we are not auditioning for fearless leader. we don't need a president to tell us what direction to go. we know which direction to go. we just need a president to sign this stuff. we don't need someone to think it up or design it. we have a house and senate. the modern design move will come out of the house and senate. pick a republican with enough

working digits to handle a pen and become president of the united states. >> that is the boldest most shameless statement by the tax cutting right as to what they really want in the white house. someone to cut their taxes and stay out of room for anything else. >> ways in the room when he gave that speech pch i thought, my god, they don't even think they need a president, really. except the signature. and now, you may say that's hubrisistic -- >> who came up with that word? >> it is a word. >> i thought he did. >> okay it means smart alec, okay, get it. >> if you look at the grass roots and pry mare res and everybody that grover gets to sign his tax play -- >> which includes romney. >> which includes mitt romney, then he's right. and this is the core of republican modern philosophy. drawing a hard line on taxes. it is simple to understand. everybody, almost everybody

signs it. jon huntsman who ran didn't sign it. >> look what happened to him. >> look what happened to him. >> what grover is saying, yes, it is full of pride, but also happens to be true. >> every time i good to the business conventions, which you probably love, the rewards week ends for these guys to give a speech somewhere. they all play golf, all read the wall street journal and are all for tax cuts. they all like this guy, grover norquist. they think he is like their god. all of the republicans candidates signed this thin. he signed a thing that said no taxes, just spending cuts on social programs. no tax ray raidses to go with it. >> i don't think -- just spending cut on social programs. i don't think he said that. just no tax cuts. >> who is the boss here? >> the boss is going to be mitt romney. >> but he signed the grove

petition. >> the boss will be mitt romney. >> he signed on. the man of honor, i assume. >> he is the man of honor but the boss is mitt romney. mitt romney will run his campaign, make the case -- >> he sold out to this guy. >> he hasn't sold out to anyone, chris. nice excitable terms but he hasn't sold out. >> if i told you to do everything i said, and he signed the paper -- >> what do you mean tell you everything i need to do. >> if i sane your paper -- >> that's your choice. >> why did romney sign the petition? >> because he agree owns making the tax cuts to spur economic growth. this is consistent with what we want to do. number one. number two, the reality of for everyone, whether you're in the house or senate, is that mitt romney is the president, el govern and act on the best interest of the people of the country. and i think, you know, my sense is he's his own man. so the reality of -- >> if he was his own man, he would have done what the other man did and said, i'm not

signing your damn paper is. here is norquist and what he needs from a president. he needs five digits. here he is again. let's listen. >> we just need a president to sign this stuff. pick republican with enough working digits to handle a pen and become president of the united states. >> okay. so. i mean, i agree, that's hot fun rhetoric in front of c-pac crowd. what is your point? >> my point is i just read the piece about your party and what is going on historically the last four or five years aleast. what is going on, this guy and gingrich are dictating a new style republican party. it is really simplistic. do what they tell you. they tell now tax increases. more tax cuts for the rich. >> this is consistent with the -- >> this is consistent with where republicans have been for generations on tax cuts. this isn't something new. >> that's not true. ronald reagan was able to make compromises all through administration. >> when he was president. but when he ran, what did he talk about?

he talked about tax cuts. there a different of being a candidate and being -- >> george w.h. bush did also. the party changed because frankly the party apparatus and party identity means less today with all due respect to the rnc. >> the outside groups dictate -- >> i think that they believe that this guy, mitt romney who looks good, likes like presidents used to all look, has everything right with family, this guy doesn't have a lot of interest or philosophies. they see a guy for a businessman ae point of view, and ways basically didn't have a foreign philosop philosophy. the republican party have their sight set right now ron romney. in an editorial beautifully written, takes on the tone,

writing quote, mr. romney had better spell out clear positions on that foreign policy and in full and bold detail what the voice of america will be in a romney, what it will stand for in regard to syria, iran and north korea and afghanistan. it won't be enough to assert in passing that we intend to stand by americans. now lehear this, get yourself se spine. you wouldn't believe that to someone with foreign policy background, he is basically pseudo foreign policy and hawks will try to use him. >> again, to oversimplify only a little bit, the neocons, are the sort of foreign policy equipment of grover norquist. >> right. a strict point of view. >> they have been in charge of republican party thinking for the last -- >> 12 years or so. >> ten, 10 years. they look at mitt romney, see someone as etcha sketch candidate by other republicans.

see someone without much foreign policy experience. sees a guy who has signed a lot of pledges and signed on to positions he didn't necessarily have in the past. they think given their track record with people like george w. bush that they can push around anybody. >> quail. >> can push around anybody. especially what they think mitt is. it is up to mitt to prove, it he wins, that he isn't -- >> okay, i've done my homework here michael, before you came. take a look at what he, especially vulnerable to what howard laid out beautifully. if there is a strong one without a lot of well thought thinking, and bush had nothing going on in terms of philosophy in 2007 on fox romney said foreign policy experience wasn't important to have. here is what he said. if we had someone with experience in foreign policy we could go to the state department and pluck out one of the tens of thousands who work there. they have been doing foreign

policy but that's not how we choose a president. even john mccain couldn't help but,000 these comments in a a debate. let's listen to mccaine. >> following is a mitt romney issue alert. romney says the president doesn't need foreign policy experience. >> well if we want someone with a lot of experience in foreign policy, we can simply go the to state department. >> see, there's the point, if you are an empty shell or empty suit -- you go with it. that's what. whatted to w, what happened in iraq and that's what could happen again. >> i think that reality is that no individual walks into the oval office with foreign policy experience. >> if hillary clinton gets elected she will. >> after being secretary of state. true. but running for president of the united states, she didn't have the foreign policy experience that she has now. barack obama didn't have any

foreign policy -- >> this guy says i have no interest. he said if you want someone with foreign policy, go to the state -- >> come on, you know his point is if you want someone to walk in the door with all this foreign policy on their back, then yeah, we need to go. but that not the -- >> i want it give you an open door here. tell me something you read that mitt romney said about foreign policy that intrigued you. something he said that's of importance that -- any evidence he ever read a journal or -- >> i've not read -- >> okay, name an expressed view. >> i haven't read romney's viewings on foreign policy -- >> there aren't any. >> chris, i get the rub here. you want this guy to be an empty business suit. >> that right. gout it. >> but you're wrong on that. >> prove me wrong. tell me what he ever said on foreign policy. >> it is not a good way to approach this election with that point of view. >> look at him.

>> give this guy a chance, everyone gave barack obama a chance to lay out his foreign policy. >> let me tell you, you know why i like barack obama? four years before he ran for president he explained his position on the iraq war. and i say -- >> that was very -- >> did your guy express a view. >> that was foreign policy experience, i don't support the war. >> that's part of w., your war. >> oh, please, give me a break. >> that's what i want a break from these guys. >> as candidate, even before he was a candidate for senate in 002002, barack obama gave a speech why he was against wart. >> yes. he laid it out. >> but mitt romney spent a year abroad. he did live in france when he was a mission fairy for the mormon church. i haven't a heard him talk anything about that. in response to dorothy, but in talking about the neocon win, he just named dan senor as his new

foreign policy gay and icy guy neoman in the group. and even though mitt romney doesn't have views -- >> now we have dan's views. if you have a philosophy -- anyway -- >> this is a total hopeless policy folks to have an intelligent conversation. >> it is probably deeper than foreign policy -- michael steele, come back when have you done your homework. >> do you your homework and actu actually listen and learn. >> there is nothing there on that front. nothing on foreign policy except whatever grover gives him to sign, he signed. now he will sign anything dan gives him -- >> thank you. >> no we got a lot on this. >> present bade very well turned out gentleman who can't think after thing that this fellow mitt romney ever said on foreign policy. thank you michael steele.

thank you howard fineman. coming up, dominating the headlines. we didn't hear much from mitt romney's foreign policy spokesman, did we? why? because he is openly gay. and gop was having none of it. now he is out. out of the romney campaign. that's ahead, and this is "hardball." recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards.

let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. new poll numbers in two key states. let's check the score board. presidential election very key. i think the new poll has obama up 8 over mitt romney. 51-43. very good news for the president. it doesn't change in mcdonnell is on the ticket. the poll is run by a democratic polster. now to a senate race and latest number from montana where senator tester is trying to hang on to his seat. up 5 over congressman hrehberg.

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welcome back to "hardball." if y if you need evidence that parts of the republican party is -- here is a brief chronology of events. on april 19, the romney campaign announced hiring richard grenell security for spokesman for the campaign. grenell resume is eight years of direct over of communications for the united states for the united nations as george bush appointee. this wee reaction was tweet pepd romney picks out gay asspokesma policy mess message to the pro family community drop dead. a statement reads in part my

ability to speak clearly and forcefully on the issues is greatly diminished by the hyper partisan discussion. it sometimes comes from a presidential campaign. i want it thank governor romney for my belief in me and his clear message to me that being openly gay is a nonto me. >> what do you make of what happened here? this is a high profile position spokesman on foreign policy. i just din dint grated that he has foreign policy in his soul. but let's get to this issue. >> governor romney is on record as saying would he hire gays and lesbians in his campaign. they were there before rick got there. they are still there. no different that what george

bush did under 2000. having gays and lesbians served is based on capability, not orientation. this is not new. >> why did he leave? >> he left, as you saw, because he felt he wasn't effective in his capacity. story became more about rick than the candidate. i know there was frugs frustration on rick's part about not getting out into the field. >> why did they stop inviting him to meetings? why did the campaign den grate and demote his position because they were taking heat from the far right. >> the campaign wanted rick to stay on. they were very aggressive to having him stay on. >> they say that in statements but in fact the in the campaign they weren't inviting him to meetings. >> look, chris, i'm not speaking for the campaign. i know they wanted to stay. there are colleagues of mine and from the administration -- >> let's go back. the evidence here under the inside of the campaign is that they were demoting him in terms of, when you are frozen out of

meetings on foreign policy is what you are supposed to be speaking on, i get the message. >> what is telling about rick's statement is yes maybe romney made clear to him that his being gay wasn't an issue. but romney didn't make that clear to the american people or those criticizing rick as a member of his team. they were silent on all of that criticism. and the suggestion that an openly gay person who happened it have the audacity to be a decate for his equal equality on law through marriage is a liability to the campaign. i think that's most telling thing is that romney was silent. >> the romney foreign policy adviser reflected in blame of the resignation from the campaign. let's listen to how he doesn't mention mitt romney. >> when the campaign learned that he was considering stepping down, the campaign went out of its way it persuade him to stay. everyone from the campaign manager to senior foreign policy

advisors to the campaign. i mean, outside advisors to the campaign. people really, it is a disappointment that campaign wasn't able to persuade him to stay but ultimately this is a decision that he made and we respect the decision even if we are disappointed by it. >> the great senator from new york used to get a call from the white house and say the white house is a building. who is calling. my question to you, clark, is do you believe there is any evidence on the table right now from mitt romney he wanted this guy to stay? >> yes. there is. >> where's the evidence? >> again, you saw dan talk. >> is there any evidence from the candidate? is he speaking on this? did he ask him it stay? >> i'm not speaking for the campaign. >> you keep saying you're speakinging for the campaign but then two seconds later you read their statements to me. >> i know folks in the campaign and i know there is an aggressive reach for rick it stay. i know rick is very frustrated he was sitting on the side lines as they wait for this story to die out. so that was -- >> why was he sitting? ec on the

side lines. my question here, if the candidate for president, again back to what we talk about in the last segment, heard an follower of grover norquist and neocons and dan senor. why doesn't he say, my guy richard is staying with this campaign, gay or straight. how come he didn't do it? >> well he -- >> no, why didn't he do it. >> moving forward piece is there should be a reaversion by the candidate mitt romney -- >> his opportunity is now. >> hear me out here. we said this. this is the in the news but here is an opportunity to discuss this. the campaign can reassert the campaign position that merit trumed orientation, sex, race. >> hold on. >> you are making my point. this is his opportunity to do that and we are sitting here on live television. i don't see anything coming across the news wire saying romney having heard of this departure under pressure and with the bad news you talked about, putting him on the side

lines, romney is aware of this too now, you assume, right? >> yes. >> why isn't he doing something? >> i can't read his mind. >> this can be an opportunity to -- >> would you like him to say, this was a terrible mistake? richard grennell should stay with the campaign. >> that and further. stand hard and fast on protection -- >> let me tell you, as president of log cabin republicans, do you call on candidate mitt romney to reinstate grenell as campaign spokesman? >> rick resigned. i can tell you, i know rick. he is not going back. so the response from romney and the campaign would say, we have asked him to stay. the bigger issue is protection of the workplace. >> what do you think this case tells you about the romney campaign? >> well, it is concerning. if they are willing to stay on the side and let the right wing

of the party ininfluence them on a campaign like this -- >> who is bryan fischer by the way. >> they are a very quote unquote family values organization. if they can influence the romney campaign like this, what does that tell us how they will influence the campaign on other issues pt the campaign signed a pledge to support a constitutional amendment to ban marriage for same-sex couples. put anti-llbg judges on the kpourt court and with the silence of the governor on grenell's leaving and influence from bryan fischer on the ilk, what are we supposed to make of that. >> sni think personnel is policy. and who you hire tells a lot about who you are.

and who you have forced out of your campaign tells you who you are pt grover norquist crowd -- >> wait be a governor norquist is very support of gays and lesbians. >> all of these guys together seem to have more power than mitt romney, anyway. thank you clark cooper of log cabin which supports, not the firing of people like this. thank you. >> up next, this is it. today's the end, by the way, end of the line for newtster. he finally quit the campaign. now he said he will work to get romney elected. a guy he disspieses. what about all of the mean things he said about him in the campaign? you're watching "hardball." when's the show? well, if we don't find an audience, all we'll ever do is rehearse. maybe you should try every door direct mail. just select the zip codes where you want your message to be seen. print it yourself or find a local partner. and you find the customers that matter most. brilliant! clifton, show us overjoyed. no! too much!

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back to "hardball." now for the side show. newt gingrich made his exit from

the 2012 race today. he will support mitt romney. he was asked what he would do with the brutal attacks he gave him from the primary season. >> when the time comes, if someone wines this nomination, can those of you who have been running stand on stage together and honestly with straight face say icy port -- >> absolutely. >> will the democrats use your words against each other? >> it doesn't matter. they make stuff up anyway. >> why reinvent the wheel? here a newt's last day as capped date. >> as man who want to run for the president of the united states, who can't be honest with the american people? why would we think he would be level as a president? >> is he still the most anti-immigrant candidate? i think of the four of us, yes. >> are you calling mitt romney a liar? >> yes. >> wow. fresh off the campaign trail. making a case for president

obama. that's newt. now to nmitt romney. ohio senator rob portman, just how much excitement would a romney portman match-up bring to the table? just ask steven colbert. >> nothing fires up the base like boring. just look at these two together. it's like the bland leading the bland. although, i got say, now that i see them side by side, i wonder if portman might have too much charisma. maybe romney should go with something blander like a manequin or rice cake or a heel of white bread. no, they're all to fascinating. >> last night portman himself weighed in on that bland leading the bland comparison. >> my kids love that. i'd like to think i'm a serious legislator and try to get things done. that's my goal in life is to get things done. and it's not about sizzle for me. >> so 2012 is the anti-sizzle

election? >> i don't think mitt romney has a sizzle. don't get me wrong. i think he is a dynamic guy. >> well, when is the last time i heard the words mitt romney and sizzle in the same sentence? wow. up next, republicans have been the daddy party on national security, if you will. old school way of looking at things. the last 60 years. that may explain why so many of them don't want to see or give president obama his victory lap on bin laden. that's ahead, you're watching "hardball." wake up!

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i'm amanda drurry with your cnbc market wrap. nasdaq is up by 9. worries about the nation's employment picture unnerved investors according to payroll firm adp. private sector adding 190,000

jobs in april which is well below expectations. slumping factory orders also pressuring stocks. orders slipping 1.5% in the month of march. and facebook is expected to embark on its preip road show next week to woo investors. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back over to hale hall. "hardbal"hardball". back to "hardball." for the back week actually rb republicans have bashed president obama for making political hay on his role with the death of osama bin laden a year ago. he wasn't exactly shy about using national security for, should by say, political purposes. the daily show last night made that point acutely well. let's watch. >> so let me get this straight.

republicans, you're annoyed by the arrogance and bragging after war time president's political ad. i think he's divisively and unfairly belittling his opponents. i see. i have a request. are you on crack? were you alive these past ten years? it seems unseamly for the president to spike the football. bush landed on a [ bleep ] aircraft carrier with a football stuffed piece, he spiked the football before the game had even started. >> it is hard it imagine that guy. something incredible is happening in this race. if you look at the poll, foreign policy is a winning issue for a democrat, brez obama. for decades solidly republican territory. but no longer what is going on here.

let's take a look at these numbers right now. it shows that the washington post, abc poll, the latest poll out, shows president obama has a double-digit lead over mitt romney on the question of which candidate voters trust more to handle international affairs. you know, years ago when we talked like this, i talked about the daddy party and the mommy party because daddy lock the doors at night and mommy wouldn't know what shots you had or teachers you had. today it is once more vague who has what job. but the republicans were always the strong guy. the gun in the foreign policy. >> no question. >> they would protect the door from the enemy coming across. >> i say, go back and look at -- forget 2004 campaign which jon stewart is right, george bush ran largely on who can keep you safer. go to the campaign, what was the main knock on barack obama by john mccain? can we trust him in the world? can this guy lead in a dangerous world? does he have the experience?

it is a remarkable turn around that four years later as a poll point out and lots of other polls point out too, obama's clear strength over mitt romney is terrorism national security. it just shows you that old alignments, and aagree with you. forever it was democrats, education -- >> when hillary clinton went to the right of obama in the campaign -- >> yeah. >> which was, by the way, aimed at the same kind of thing. >> we are way past the point of this president where, you remember dukakis felt like he today get in the tank. >> he didn't have to look like rocky the squirrel. >> didn't need the helmet. >> that helmet killed him. >> yeah, it was terrible. but barack obama has taken away this aspect of the republican party's franchise. you saw this week the only thing they were able to say is that he is spiking the football. they wouldn't criticize him for policy. >> in politics, it is about space. it seems to me he has-the

president has, center left, center right now. the only way to beat him is say i will go to war with iran tomorrow morning when i get into office. i will bomb them immediately. you have to go that far over to get any space. >> to me, the romney campaign really does not -- again, this is my educated guess, but they don't want it spend a lot of time talking about foreign policy. >> is that why he was rude the other day? >> yes. >> explain what he did. >> he basically said that while he is politicizing it but he said i support the president. chris, look, here is what they want to do. what do you do on things you can't win it? you acknowledge and change the subject. >> give quick /* a quick nod. >> he said, what does any of this have to do with the economy? today he is talking about the economy. tomorrow he will talk about the economy. the problem is, this president wants to expand the playing field.

talk about foreign policy. talk about women's issues. >> i got to get back, before a point and a point i will continue to make, i don't think romney has a foreign policy in his soul. take a look at this. bloomberg news wrote, romney's position on the war in afghanistan will be familiar to those who followed him or tried to on healthcare reform. basically i have to read down. to the biggest and -- let me get back to this. let me go back to this. and both these cases, foreign policy, afghanistan and healthcare, he criticizes president barack obama for essentially having the same policy as he himself had. in the case of war of afghanistan, romney has not reversed his former views, possibly because he is new to the foreign policy game and has no former views. his current views insofar as they can be defined again appear almost identical to obamas and where they're not, they're contradictory.

that is pretty well written. i have to say, he doesn't have a place to go to the right of. >> here is what i would say. all candidates, all candidate have things that really animate them and things that they kind of just do because they know they have to do it. in '08 mccain didn't really care that much about the economy. he was animated by national security foreign policy. that's why he said it was strong. he didn't have a course and belief to say, this doesn't make sense. that is romney on foreign policy. what an mates mitt romney, chris? business sensebility. economy, private sector. that is what he believes in. that's when he talks. that's where i'm getting genuine article, mitt romney. >> i don't think that ultimately in his heart of hearts he feels passionate about -- >> he cares more about china than anything else. >> right. >> lobbying for the u.s. chamber of commerce some. >> possibly. at some point he has to roll out something for robust on foreign

poll spip he gave this major speech. >> you analyze it and report it. it seems to me this campaign comes down to something to simple. it is about the community. we will get the unemployment rate on friday, we get it every month, growth figurees. if the numbers go down, romney starts to make his case, but he can probably win on the argument. if it goes up a bit, obama has a better case. but it has to be about the economy and going down for romney to win. two things have to happen for him. campaign has it stay focused on the economy and economy has to go down, right? >> right. it is a bad position to be in for him because he has to hope that economy goes down. you hear him say that even if the unemployment rate ticks down that it wouldn't be because of barack obama, it would be in spite of obama. >> but you said it the first time. it is better for him if it goes down. thank you, chris. look that discerning look. >> i'm just trying to look

smart. that's my smart look. >> you make a great team here and tonight, a special edition of rock center. brian williams takes us inside "the situation room." that rook right theoom right th during the killing of bin laden. at chinese dissident, human rights fighter at u.s. embassy in beijing, put hillary clinton in the spotlight, like we have rarely seen her before. she had the chance to really shine on or perhaps fail. that's ahead in "hardball."

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this is odd. the supreme court is at its lowest level of favorbility in a quarter century. a new poll finds that 52% of americans offer a favorable opinion of the high court. down from 58 percent in 2010. three in ten say they have an unfavorable view of the court. the poll was after the supreme court heard arguments on president obama's healthcare reform law. we'll be right back. zap technology. arrival.

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we're back as secretary of state hillary clinton was landing in beijing for chalk with china a diplomatic mass was

unfolding. check was in the embassy. he escaped frommous arrest last month. after the united states and chinese negotiations, chen agreed to leave the embassy. chinese agreed to keep him safe and allow him to study law. hours after his release retold the associated press he left the embassy after u.s. officials told him his family was in danger. the u.s. denies this and say after he left the embassy he had an emotional phone call with secretary clinton. the blind activist now says he want it leave china. all this comes as secretary clinton is in china for talks on a host of strategic issuees. this threatens to overshadow those discussions. assistant secretary of state for public affairs and china director, the clina director for human rights watch, thank you for coming on.

sophie and pj, you first size up the whole complicated situation right now. and then you get into the human rights part. let's learn something here. >> what hillary clinton is in china to do is something called the strategic here. >> she's in china for the strategic and economic dialogue. it's the full range of items. so human rights is a part of a very large and complex relationship between the united states and china, and you drop into the middle of this a very, very unique, intense -- >> how does she avoid annoying them. and at the same time fight for human rights? >> she said this is a case that's important to us, and some very diligent work by diplomats at the embassy, and i think it's important that we're at the beginning of this story, and there's a lot more that will

unfold for chen's life. we'll see -- there will be a lot of back and forth over this, because it's contrary to what we have always seen in the past. in the past, the united states has been negotiating for an activist to go to china, now it's to stay in china. >> what i read is that his family was threatened, they were going to take him back to the village and beat them to death. >> every activist in china is under threat at all times. the concern about the guarantees offered by the chinese government, is that if they were serious about any of their human rights, we would not be having this conversation in the first

place. it's been a full on couple days, but the hard part is just beginning. making those guarantees manifest will require monitoring and interventionly american depositi diplomats for weeks and months. >> this is a highly aauthoritarian regime with no real respect in the sense that we understand it for the word of law. everything he did was illegal. and the ways that he was persecuted is inconsistent with chinese law. >> i heard one of the things they don't like is because he advocated against the one child only policy. >> sure. he is trying to create space at the national level. you know, to have a kind of conversation between a one party government and the people that they have never had before. and there's lots going on at the

local level, but once you get into a dynamic that the party preserves, threatens their control and legitimacy, they get very uneasy about this. over the past year, they look at the arab awakening and they have cracked down significantly over the last year or two. they don't want to see a beijing spring. they know they have to change eventually, they just have to figure out how to do it while maintaining broad control and maintaining the pace of change. human rights is one of those areas they lag behind the rest of the world. >> do they believe a billion people can get along or it means trouble. >> i think plenty of chinese people don't see a problem with that at all. i think the chinese communist party, a completely distinct animal, really does.

i wouldn't necessarily agree with the comment that they know they have to change in the long run. the tolerance for peaceful criticism and debating, the party made it clear that it's not interesting in making any systemic change. >> not systemic change, but their red lines do migrate somewhat. a lot of this is depending on your starting point. if your starting point is to compare china with a universal standard of rights, they fail. if it's from twenty or thirty years ago, this is a much different country. >> if you start thinking and talking out loud you have problems. >> we have to go, please, continue your fight. this is something we will worry about the rest of our lives, how far we're willing to upset the chinese. we'll be joined by clint hill,

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let me finish tonight where i started. i think there is a lot of wide open space in mitt romney.

i know he wants to cut taxes. he is like every other business type. he is not all that interested in other things, those other things that people in politics and government get so passionate about, let's admit it, foreign policy, and not the world, he's not that interesting in politics from what i can tell. does anyone think he would watch this network at night, fox, or anywhere. would he will reading the columns where debate is occurring? he's interested now because he is running now for president. this is why he is such a handy tool for those with purposes in the world. and they can use romney to get what they never got from barack obama. a useful tool. this is the giant reason to fear romney election. not that he maytu