it looks." up next, "hardball with chris matthews. rousing romney. let's play "hardball." i'm chris matthews, back in washington, leading off tonight, two of the tax cutters, who is this man the republicans want as their president, is he someone of deep purpose of useful purpose. would he simply be there to put his signature on the tax cuts. would it be like w., a mouth piece for the hogs. just a guy with a useful test nation. why did the openly gay spokesman

have to quit? he is openly gay, and the family values types were having none of it. plus hillary clinton and the extraordinary drama in beijing. she is out front in a way we have not seen in her nearly four years of diplomacy. s it's her chance to be right out front in the front pages if things go wrong. why are the republicans so frantic over the bin laden victory lap? simply they have been the daddy party for the last 60 years and can't afford to lose ground. what's left? hope that the economy tanks for them. let me finish with if mitt romney is a genuine article or a vessel that will be used once he is in office. michael steele is the chairman of the republican party, howard fineman is editorial director of

the media group and a msnbc political analyst. at the cpac conference, the anti-tax activist laid out in clear and unambiguous terms what the republican party expects from the president, whoever that happens to be. >> we're not auditions for fearless leader. we know what direction to go, we just need a president to sign this stuff. we don't need someone to think it up or design it. we have a house and senate, the leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the house and senate. pick a republican with enough working digits to handle a been and become president of the united states. >> that was the most shameless statement by the tax cutting right by what they need in the white house. someone to cut the taxes and stay out of the way of anyone

else. i was in the room for that speech, and i thought, they really don't think they need a president. you may think that's human being rouse on his part, and to some extent it is. >> who came up with that word? >> i thought he -- >> okay, it means smart alack. >> if you look at the primaries and everybody grover gets to sign, then he is right. this is the core of the republican philosophy, a hard line on taxes, simple to understand, jon huntsman did not sign it, and he went nowhere. so what grover is saying yes

it's full of pride, but it also happens to be true. >> every time i go to a business convention that you probably love to go to, the reward weekends for these guys they all play golf and their all for tax cuts. and they all like this guy. and every member of congress, all of the candidates for president signed this thing. he got them to sign something that says no tax cuts -- tax raises to go with it. >> i don't think it said just spending cut on some social programs. >> what is he willing to cut? >> there's no tax cuts. >> who is the boss here. >> the bosses will be mitt romney. >> he signed the grover petition. >> he is a man of honor, mitt romney will run the campaign and

make the case -- >> he sold out to this guy. >> he did not sold out to none. >> if i -- that's not what this is, you -- we would you do everything i told you to do. >> that's your choice, that's your choice. >> why did romney sign a petition? >> he believes making tax cuts to spur economic growth. this is consistent with what he wants to do number one. number two, the reality for everyone in this, the house or senate, mitt romney is the president and he will governor and act on behalf of what's in the best interest of the people, and i think my sense is he is his own man, so the reality -- >> you know what, if he was his own man, he would have done what the other guy did and say i'm not signing your damn paper. here is grover saying what he needs from a president. >> we need a president to sign this stuff.

pick a republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the united states. >> okay, so -- i mean, i agree. that's just hot, fun rhetoric in front of a cpac crowd. what's your point? >> i just read a peace about your party and what's going on in the last four or five years, and what's going on, is this guy has been dictating a new style of party. they tell you no tax increases, more tax cuts for the rich -- >> this is a consistent -- >> wait a minute, chris. this is consistent with where republicans have been for generations for years on tax cuts. >> that's true, ronald reagan was able to make compromises all through his presidency. >> but when he ran he talked about the tax cuts. there's a difference between candidate and president. >> the party has changed and the process of the party has

changed. the party has changed. >> i think a lot of people think this guy, mitt romney who looks good, has everything right with the family. this guy doesn't have a lot of interest or philosophies. they see a guy basically for a businessman's point of view, and doesn't have a foreign policy philosophy. so here is a foreign policy person with a policy, they have their sights set right now, on romney. in a wall street journal editorial, it takes on a bullying tone. he said mr. romney better spell out a policy. what it will stand for in regard

afghanistan. howard, here is a person who i have been reading it for years, very sharp and broadening their thinking, and she's saying to romney, now hear this. get yourself some spine. you wouldn't say that do someone with a lot of foreign policy background that believed in a lot of things, said a lot of things in the past. and the hawks are going to try to use them. >> to oversimplify, only a little bit. they're the foreign policy equivalent. and they have been in charge essentially of republican party thinking for the last ten or 12 years. and they see romney as the etch-a-sketch by other republicans. they see a guy without much foreign policy experience, and they see a guy who seems to have signed a lot of pledges and on to a lot of positions he didn't have in the past.

they think given their track record with people like george w. bush they can push around anybody, especially somebody like what they think mitt is. >> i've done my homework here, look at what he said to make him especially vulnerable. if you don't have a philosophy, and someone comes along with a strong one. with well thought out thinks, that had nothing going on, look in december 27th, romney's foreign policy experience was important. here is what he said. even john mccain could not resist these comments in an anti-romney ad in 2008.

>> the following is a mitt romney issue alert. he says the next president doesn't need foreign policy experience. >> if we want somebody who has a lot of experience in foreign policy, we can simply go to the state department. when you're an empty suit, and a lot of ideology is thrown at you, you go with it. that's what happened with w. and iraq, and what can happen again. >> i this no individual walks into the oval office with foreign policy experience. >> if hillary clinton is elected she will. >> when she ran for president of the united states she didn't have the experience she had now. barack obama didn't have any foreign policy experience. >> but he had interest. >> this guy says he has no interest. >> you know his point is, if you want somebody who is going to

walk in the door with all of this foreign policy on their back, then that's the way we need to go, but that's not -- >> i want to give you an open door here. tell me something mitt romney said that's of interest or important to you. >> i have not red a journal or -- >> okay, name a country in the world where he expressed a view. >> i have not read his views or musings on foreign policy. >> look, i get the rub here, you want to make him to be an empty business suit -- >> you got it. >> you're wrong. >> prove me wrong. >> it's not a good way to approach this election with that point of view. give this guy a chance like everyone else. everyone gave barack obama a chance to lay out his foreign policy. >> i like him because four years

before he ran for president, he explained his position on the iraq war. >> has your guy ever done that? >> that was the foreign policy? i don't support the war? >> oh please, come on. give me a break. >> that's what i want, a break from these guys. >> before he was a candidate for the senate in 2002, barack obama gave a speech why he was against the war. mitt romney spent a year abroad. he did spend a year in france. the other thing he did was, just in response, but in talking about the neocon wing, he named dan senor as his foreign balance guy. he is a main man, and that sent a signal that even though mitt

romney doesn't have developed views, perhaps -- now we'll have dan's views. >> if you don't have a philosophy you can get one. >> this is a total hopeless cause. >> he is a smart guy and deeper than romney in foreign policy. >> how do you know how deep. >> how deep do you know. you do your homework and listen and learn from the man. >> there is nothing on that front. >> this is pitiful. >> now he will sign anything dan senor -- thank you, we have a lot on this, the empty suit was represented very well by a man who can't think of a thing that romney ever said on foreign policy. coming up, in a week where foreign policy is dominating the headlines, we did not hear romney's spokesman. now he is out.

out of the romney campaign. and that's ahead. those surprising little things she does still make you take notice. there are a million reasons why. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing,

stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. new poll numbers in two key states, let's check the score board. first virginia, a key battleground state, a new poll has president obama up eight over mitt romney. those numbers don't change if romney puts bob mcdonald on the ticket. remember the automated poll is run by a democratic pollster. now to a hot senate race in montana where john tester is trying to hang on to his seat. he is up by five over denny rehberg.

welcome back to "hardball," if you needed evidence that parts of the republican party are hostile, richard gernell is out after being criticized for being openly gay. on april 19th, the romney campaign announced the hiring of him to be national security and foreign policy spokesman for the campaign. his résume including eight years as director of communications for the united states at the you needs nations. the very next day, brian fisher of the american family association tweeted this reaction. romney picks out and loud gay as a spokesman. if personnel is policy. gernell yesterday left the campaign. his statement is that person issues that sometimes come from a presidential campaign. i want to thank governor romney

for his belief in me, my abilities, and his clear message to me that me being openly gay was a nonissue for him and his team. gentleman, both of your organizations have an interest in this, what do you make of what happened here. this is a high profile position. i just denigrated the possibility that romney has a foreign policy, but this issue of personnel being policy, what do you make of that? >> governor romney is on record saying he would hire gays and lesbians in his campaign. it's no different than what george bush did in 2000. having gays and lesbians serve is based on people's capabilities and not orientation.

so this is not new. >> he left because he felt he was not effective. the story was more about rick than the candidate. i know there is -- >> why did they top inviting him to meetings? >> the campaign -- >> why did they demote his position. >> the campaign wanted rick to stay on. they were very aggressive to have him stay on. >> they say that in statements, but they were not inviting him to meetings. >> i can tell you i know for sure they wanted rick to stay. they're colleagues of mine that are involved in the campaign in a personal capacity. >> they were demoting him in terms of -- when you start getting frozen out of meetings on foreign policy, which is what you're supposed to be speaking on you get the message.

>> what's telling is yes, maybe governor romney made clear to him it was not an issue, but governor romney didn't make that clear to the american people and the people criticizing rick as a member of his team. they were silent on all of that criticism, and the suggestion that an openly gay person that had the audacity to advocate for his full quality of marriage under the law. that's what's most telling. >> the foreign policy advisor deflected any blame for the resignation from the campaign, but didn't mention any involvement by the campaign himself. let's listen. >> when the campaign learned that he was considering stepping down, the campaign went out of his way to try to persuade him to stay from the campaign manager to senior foreign policy advisors, outside advisors, people really -- it's a

disappointment that the campaign wasn't able to persuade him to stay. we respect his decision even if we're disappointed by it. >> the great senator from new york used to get a call from the white house saying the white house is a building. do you believe there is any evidence on the table right now for mitt romney wanting the guy to stay? >> again, you saw dan talk. >> any evidence for the candidate, did he speak on this and ask him to stay? >> i'm not speaking for the campaign. >> two seconds later you read their statements to me. >> i know folks involved in the campaign and i know was there an aggressive reach for rick to stay. i know he was very frustrated he was sitting on the sidelines as they waited him to die out. >> he was put on the sidelines. >> my question to you, the candidate for president is a

leader not a follower, why didn't the leader go on television saying my guy is staying with this campaign, gay or straight, why didn't he do it? >> why didn't he do it. >> the moving forward piece is there should be a reassertion by the candidate, and the campaign -- the candidate in the campaign can reassert the governor's position and campaign's position that merit and capability trump orientation and race and sex. >> you're making my point. this is his opportunity to do this, and we're on live television, and nothing is coming across the news wires saying romney having heard of this departure under pressure and all this bad noise that put him on the sidelines, he's aware of all of this too -- why isn't he doing something?

>> i can't read his mind. this could be an opportunity to -- >> would you say this was a terrible mistake, richard grenell should stay? >> yes, and go further and stand fast and hard on protection. >> i respect your organization. as president of the log cabin republicans, do you call on romney to reinstate richard? >> rick resigned. the response will be that we asked him to stay. the bigger issue is employment nondiscrimination. >> human rights campaign, what do you think this tells you about it? >> it's concerning, if they're willing to stand aside and let them be influenced on an issue

like this -- >> who is brian fisher? >> there is misinformation here. >> what is the american family association. >> their a very anti-gay organization. if they can influence the romney campaign like this, what does it say about what else they will be an influence on. they support a constitutional amendment to ban marriage for same sex couples, so we have an indication from the governor on gernell's leaving, what are we supposed to make of that. >> i think the issue, i think one more point here is important, i think personnel is policy. who you hire tells you about who you are, and who you let get forced out of your campaign tells you who you are. the right-wing christian crowd --

>> all of these guys, you see have more power than mitt romney, thank you clark cooper of the log cabin which supports not the firing of people like this, thank you. this is the end, the end of the line for the newtster. now he says he will work to get romney elected. what about all of the mean things he said about him in the campaign?

back to "hardball," now for the side show. at long last, newt gingrich made

his exit of the 2012 race today. last month, newt was asked what democrats would do with the treasure-trove of brutal attacks he gave them. >> when the time comes and somebody wins the nomination, can you stand on stage together and stay with a straight face i support each other? >> absolutely. >> make stuff up? why reinvent the wheel. here is how team obama commemorated the last day as candidate. >> why should we expect him to level about anything if he is president? i don't know of any american president is a swiss bank account. i would be glad for you to explain that sort of thing. >> are you calling mitt romney a liar? >> yes. fresh off the campaign trail making a case for president obama. now to mitt romney's search for

an ideal running mate. at the top of senator rob portman, how much excitement would this match up bring to the table? >> nothing fires up the base like boring. this is like the bland leading the bland. although, i have to say now that i see them side to side, i wonder if portman may have too much charisma. maybe he should use a rice cake or a heel of white bred -- no, they're all to fascinating. last night portman weighed in on that. >> i would like to think i'm a serious legislature trying to get things done, that's my goal in life to get things done, and it's not about sizzle for me. >> so 2012 is the anti-sizzle election.

>> i think romney has sizzle. >> when was the last time you heard mitt romney and sizzle in the same sentence. the last 60 years, and that may explain why so many that the don't want to give president obama his victory lap on bin laden. that's ahead.

hey there, here is what's happening, former nfl star junior seau is dead in an apparent suicide.

he was 43 years old. now back to "hardball." for the past week, republicans have bashed president obama more making political hay on the death of osama bin laden a year ago. the last president was not exactly shy using it for politics.

>> republicans, you're annoyed by the arrogance of a war within time president's political add? you think he is unfairly belittling his opponents. i have a question -- are you on crack? were you alive the last ten years? it seems unseemly for the president to spike the football, bush landed on a [ bleep ] aircraft carrier. >> something incredible is happening in this race, if you look at the polls, foreign false is becoming a winning issue. so what's going on here, we have

chris cillizza. the latest poll thousands that obama has a double digit lead on what candidate voters trust more to handle international affairs. years ago, i talked about the daddy party and the mommy party. mom would now what you had, and daddy would look the doors. now it's much more vague, who has what job, but republicans were always the strong guy. and they were going to protect the door from the enemy. >> and go back and look -- forget the 2004 campaign, that george bush ran on who can keep you safer. go to the 2008 campaign. can we trust barack obama in the

world. can he lead in a dangerous world? it is a remarkable turn around that four years later as that poll points out and others point out too, obama clearest strength over mitt romney is terrorism, and national security. it shows you the old alignments, and forever it was democrats, education, and health care. >> hillary clinton went to the right of obama in the campaign. >> which was aimed at the same thing. >> we're way past the point with this president where, you know, ducaucus felt like he had to get in the tank. >> he didn't need to look like rocky the squirrel. >> she should have got one that fit. >> yeah, it was terrible, barack obama has taken away this aspect of the republican party's franchise. the only thing they were able to say is that he is spiking the

football. >> in politics it's all about space, and it seems to me the president has center left, center right. the only way to beat him is saying bomb them in the morning. you have to go that far over to get any space. >> to me, the romney campaign, and this is my educated guess, they don't want to spend lots of times talking about foreign policy. explain what he did. >> he wants to, he basically said that while he politicized it. >> you acknowledge and change the subject. if you're in a hole, stop digging. and that's what you saw him do. he literally said, what does this have to do with the economy? today he was talking about the economy, tomorrow he will talk

about the economy, the president wants to explain the playing field. talk about foreign policy, but talk about women's issues. >> i have to go back to a point i was making before, i don't think romney has a foreign policy in his soul that he can bring out. look at what bloomberg news wrote that's week. mitt romney's position on the war in afghanistan will be familiar to those who have followed him or tried o on health care reform. in both cases, two of the biggest domestic and foreign policy issues of this year's campaign, he criticizes barack as romney himself. in the war in afghanistan, romney has not reversed his former views because he is possibly new and has no former views. his views again appear almost identical to obama's, and where they're not are contradictory. that's pretty well written. i have to say, he doesn't have a place to go to the right of.

>> and here is what i would say, all candidates, all candidates have things that really animate them, and things they kind of just do because they know they have to do it. in '08, mccain didn't care much about the economy. he was animated by national security and foreign policy. he said the economy is strong, he didn't have a core set of beliefs to say that doesn't make sense. what animates mitt romney is business sensibility. the economy, the private sector, that's what he believes in, that's when he talks, that's where we're getting the genuine article mitt romney. i don't think in his heart of hearts he feels passionate about all of that. >> he would be a good lobbyist for the u.s. chamber of commerce. >> i think as some point we said this before, highway has to roll out something more robust on foreign policy, he gave a speech in october and that's all.

>> you report this every day and analyze it. it seems to many this campaign comes down to something so simple. it's the economy. weaver going to get growth figures this friday. if those numbers go down, romney is in great shape. if it stays solid or moves up, balm has a better case. it has to be about the economy and it has to be going down for romney to win. the campaign has to stay focused on the economy and the economy has to go down, right? >> right, essentially yeah. it's a bad position to be in for him. you hear him start to stay now that even in the unemployment rate ticks down, it would not be because of barack obama, it would be in spite of obama. >> thank you. look at this discerning look. >> i'm just trying to look smart. thank you both for coming on,

you make a great team here. tonight on a special edition of rock center, brian williams takes us inside the situation room right there during the killing of osama. up next here, china crisis at the u.s. embassy in beijing. he put hillary clinton in the spotlight. she has a chance to really shine or i suppose fail. [ female annot a professional cleansing system you could spend as much as $200. olay says challenge that with an instrument that cleanses as effectively as what's sold by skin professionals for a whole lot less. olay pro x advanced cleansing system.

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this is odd, the supreme court is at it's lowest level of favorability in a quarter century. three in ten say they have an unfavorable view of the court. it was conducted after the supreme court heard agents of the health care reform law.

we're back. as secretary of state hillary clinton was landing in beijing for talks with china, a diplomatic mess was unfolding. here's what we know about the case of the blind chinese activist, chen guangcheng.

chen was under u.s. protection at our embassy in beijing for six days. he escaped from house arrest in his home last month. china agreed to leave the gassy. the american embassy says that china agreed to keep him safe and allowed him to study law. however, hours after his release, he reportedly told the associated press that he left the embassy only after u.s. officials told him his family was in danger. the u.s. denies this. and they say after he left the embassy, he had an emotional phone call with secretary clinton. the blind activist now says he wants to leave china. all of this comes as secretary clinton is in china this week for talks on a host of strategic issues. the chen case now threatens to overshadow those discussions. p.j. crowley is the former assistant secretary of state and sophie richardson is the china director for human rights watch. thank you so much for coming on. sophie, let me ask you, first of

all, you first, size up the whole complicated situation right now, and then you get into the human rights part. let's learn something here. >> well, what hillary clinton's in china to do is something called the strategic and economic dialogue. it's the full range of issues between the united states and china. secretary of treasury, tim geithner, is there as well. so now human rights is a part of a very large and complex relationship between the united states and china. and you drop into the middle of this a very, very unique and tense -- >> how does she avoid either irritating them to the point of danger for an east/west conflict, we don't want to go to war with china, and at the same time, fight for human rights? >> she put down a marker before she went to china saying, this is a case that's important to us. and some very diligent work by diplomats both at the embassy and those who flew in for the snde, as we call it. and i think it's important, we're at the beginning of this story and there's a lot more

that will unfold for chen's life, whether he's safe, whether he's relocated, he's reunited with his family, which is very significant. whether he'll have the chance to study law. we're going to see -- there will be a lot of back and forth over this, because this is contrary to what we've always seen in the past. usually the united states is negotiating for an activist to be able to leave china. now, at least, for the most, it's negotiating for an activist to be able to stay in china. >> my concern is what i read in the papers this afternoon, sophie, which is his family were threatened. they were going to take them back to the village and beat them to death if he didn't leave the united states embassy, where he had sought refuge. >> look, every activist in china operates under threat at all times. and, you know, our concern about the guarantees that have been offered up by the chinese government is that, frankly, if the chinese government was serious about any of its human rights commitments, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. and as p.j. said, it's been a pretty full-on couple of days. but, really, i think the hard

part is just beginning. because making those guarantees manifest is going to require a kind of monitoring and intervention by american diplomats for weeks and months and potentially years to come. >> are they still a communist government in the sense that the totalitarian state matters more than the individual? >> well, this is a highly authoritarian regime that has no real respect in the sense that we would understand it, for the rule of law. and indeed, none of chen's activism was illegal, in all of the ways in which he and his family have been persecuted are entirely incan consistent with chinese law. >> p.j., i hear one of the things they don't like about this guy, chen, is because he has advocated against the one child only policy. >> sure. he is trying to create space at the national level, you know, to have a kind of conversation between a one-party government and the people that they've never had before. and there's lots going on at the local level, but once you get

into a dynamic that the party perceives, you know, threatens their control and their legitimacy, they get very uneasy about this. you know, over the past year, for example, they look at the arab awakening, and it has made them very uneasy. they've cracked down significantly over the past year or two. they don't want to the see a beijing spring. they know they have to change eventually. they're just trying to figure out how they can do it while maintaining broad control and control the pace of change. there's some rationale to that, but clearly human rights is one of those areas that they lag behind the rest of the world. >> do they believe that a billion people can actually get along in a democracy or it means trouble if people start speaking out? >> well, i think plenty of chinese people don't see a problem with that at all. i think the chinese communist party, which is a completely distinct animal, really does. i wouldn't necessarily agree with your comment that they know they have to change in the long run, because the kinds of, you

know, tolerance for peaceful criticism or domestic debates, i think the party has made it pretty clear that it's not interested in making any kind of systemic change to take those --? not systemic change, but their tolerance level, their red lines do migrate somewhat. i mean, a lot of this is can depending on your starting point. if your starting point is to compare china to a universal standard of human rights, they fail. at the same time, if your starting point is china 20 or 30 years ago, this is a much different -- >> it's like they want you to leave them alone, but you start thinking and talking out loud, you have problems. >> if you have the political challenge -- >> we've got to go. continue your fight, sophie. great to have you on, p.j. this is something we're going to worry about for the rest of our lives, how far are we willing to upset the chinese. on friday, we'll be joined by the great clint hill who was assigned to first lady jackie

kennedy back in that terrible day in november of 1963. his new book is called "mrs. kennedy and me." when we return, let me finish with whether mitt romney is the real deal or just a tool of the right wing. you're watching "hardball." supp. like, keep one of these over your head. well, i wasn't "supposed" to need flood insurance, but i have it. fred over here chose not to have it. ♪ me, i've got a plan. fred he uh... fred what is your plan? do i look like i have a plan? not really. [ female announcer ] only flood insurance covers floods. for a free brochure, call the number on your screen.

let me finish tonight, where i started. i think there's a lot of open space in this fellow, mitt romney, wide-open space. i know he wants to cut taxes. that's what people like him say

just as they tend to play golf and follow pro sports news. mitt is like every other business type. he wants to cut taxes and regulation. he's not all that interested in other things, those things that people in politics and government get so passionate about. he's not that interested, let's admit it, in farm policy. he's not that interested in the world, really. he's not that interest in politics, from what i can tell. does anyone think he'd be watching this network at night or fox or cnn or anyone that politics is being discussed? would he be reading the columns where the debate is occurring? i doubt it. he's interested because he's running right now for president. this is why he makes such a handy tool for the bill kristols of the world. they can use romney to get what they've never gotten from barack obama, a useful tool. this is the giant reason to fear romney's election. not that he may turn right on his own, but that he doesn't