and author of "what would michelle do?" congratulations on the book. have a good weekend. >> thank you you to. you at home, have a great weekend, i'm al sharpton, have a great weekend, "hardball" starts right now. >> not enough jobs, let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthe matthews. what are we to make of the latest jobs numbers. the economy added 115,000 jobs. and the employment rate dropped. republicans could not wait to share the bad news. but paul krugman says things would be better if republicans

got out of the way. also, dirty angry money, montana's governor doesn't like this pac money in politics. he would like to ban corporate money from politics, he joins us here. why do gay republicans want to be in a political party that won't defend them? if people don't like you why are you there. and the secret service agent that protected jacqueline kennedy, clint hill, he joins us. and let me finish tonight with overdue praise for the secret service. we begin with today's jobs report. paul brugman is author of a new book, "end this depression now." thank you for joining us, today's job report was a mixed bag, of course. 115,000 jobs were added to

payrolls in april. the unemployment rate did drop to 8.1%. the lowest rate since president obama took office, but economicer forecasters were predicting bigger growth this month, and they saw the smallest jobs gain in six months. in the bigger picture there has been jobs growth for some time now. take a look at this chart. the recession started under the previous president, and we have been seeing gaining for two years. you can see the up tick there month by month. for a lot of people you're the ideal. you salespeople what people would like to see for policy, so i will give you a minute or two to talk about the political possibility of that. if you were in charge, there was no right-wing opposition, just you as an economist saying what ought to be fiscal policy, what kin of policy would you run since the office of president

obama. >> we should have had a lot more of the stimulus. you know, they hate the word now, but the stimulus should have been bigger and more sustained, and above all, there should have been a continuing program of aide to state and local governments so they would not be forced to cut their spending and to cut employment. we passed a landmark. as of the latest jobs report, private sector employment is back to what it was when barack obama was sworn in as president. layoffs largely of school teacher which is is the big drag on the economy right now and totally wrong headed. so we're not talking about stimulus, we're talking about why are we doing this austerity that is keeping us from a recovery. so if i could have waved a wand or been dictator for a day. let's have a program to keep government spending up and keep people employed. we should have had more housing

mortgage relief, more af greszive policy from the federal reserve. this is the time for the government to spend, not the time to be cutting back. if i could have done that, i think you can look at the numbers now and say if we had done that, unemployment would be below 7% right now. we would be in a much better situation, well on the way to being out of this whole thing. >> but we don't, we have two parties vying for power and checking each other and preventing each doing from what they believe. why was that not politically possible what mr. krugman said. a lot more counter aide to states and localities. >> first it's not just that we have a two party system. there are a fair number of conservative democrats in the senate and house as well that would have been -- that would have quailed in barack obama pushed for a bigger stimulus than he did. i think it's still an open question. given the approval rating when

he came into office, 70% or maybe a little above, whether he could have done something bigger. the advisors thought you could not get close tore that trillion number. we all know now that we're advocating that. political calculation was made. it was very hard to pass that bill, even at $800 billion, it just barely passed, and since that there's been no appetite for that kind of expansion policy. republicans are steadfast against it, but there are a lot of testimonies not seeing an immediate payoff are afraid to go that way. i think one of the biggest mistakes barack obama made was to not set expectations really low at the very beginning of his administration, not talk about how long it was going to take to get out of the trough by raising expectations that the first stimulus would solve the problem. he created a problem down the

line when he didn't work more quickly. >> respond to romney doing his political knee jerk. he was up ready, loaded, here he was enjoying the bad numbers. >> we should be seeing numbers in the 500 sthourks jobs created per month. this is way off from what should happen. it's terrible and a very disappointing report this morning. the american people are wonder yg this isn't happening faster, why it's taken years and years for the recovery to return. >> please respond to that. >> the last time we had a president who presided over 500,000 a month job numbers, it was bill clinton. this recovery is better than the one that george bush presided over. where is he saying he would do better? this is terrible. he is completely right that this is not what we want to be seeing, but the question is is

romney proposing anything that would not make it worse. it's important to take a look, not just of the united states, but overseas. big government spending cuts, and they are claiming that will create lots of jobs, we're getting those in europe, look at ireland and spain where they get exactly what republicans say we should do and those are catastrophes. >> you didn't mention the netherlands or europe rebelling against this slow growth or no growth policy. the republicans layer it up though, they say we're going to cut spending, but we will stimulate economics. they go both ways, they say we will cut all of the programs affecting poor people. a british labor guy said why do right wingers believe getting the best way to get poor people to work is cut them and for rich people is to give them more? why is it better.

if you screw the poor people they will be whipped into action somehow. >> if you try to look for a logical expectation you will not find it. who are the masters, whose interest are the parties serving and it's clear. given a choice between what makes since economically and what redistributes income. so yeah, and this is -- it's very frustrating for somebody in my position, of course it's more frustrating for the 3.9 people out of work for a year. we have had a test of economic doctrines. look at what happened in europe, look at those countries, mostly not in the west, look at countries like south korea. we had a test of different economic theories. the doctrine that says now is the time for the government to spend more, not less has been confirmed by experience.

we could end this now, and end it fast in 18 months. >> what about john's question. how do you sell a deficit over 2 trillion. you get to 1.6, 1.9, americans would see two to one spending over revenues without the rationing and bond sales. >> i think the political people tend to think way too much about the next news cycle and not how things play out. let me say, even in terms of the short run news cycle, last fall, obama made a bid for more economic support which wasn't enacted, but he went bigger and bolder than people expected. i was happy. apparently his team was saying don't do that. the public welcomed the prospect that he was trying to do

something. he needs to stand up for what he thinks is right. he needs to say this is the right thing to do, and then he has to say this is the do nothing congress in the way of getting people jobs. >> back to that, john, you have to answer the question now. it seems if he said he wants more, and didn't get it, we would have had nothing. this is the problem of dealing with congress. >> it's a problem, and i would never put myself in a position of arguing economics with paul krugman, but the white house worries about the next news cycle for sure, but there has never been a white house in our life time that's done more research, that polls more intensely than this white house does. and they would argue that when they've had pressure, they've heard from voters who have gotten scared by the size of the deficits. i don't disagree with paul when he says obviously job and economic growth and lower unemployment would be the best

remedy in the long run, but you can't glam them when they go to the country and they talk to people, poll test them, focus group them over and over again like the beginning of last year. they were doing that largely because they were hearing from the public. the public was concerned about debt and deficits and they wanted a solution and to see the president do something big and bold on that as much as fiscal issues. >> i can weigh in on that. voters are not tracking these things. you say the public wants lower deficits, would the pup lick know what's happening to the deficit? there are polls from the midclinton years where they say do you think it went up or down, and many people thought it went up and that was a tremendous time of reducing the deficit. i think this is a failing. it's not my business, but i think they tell elaborate

stories about what's supposed to be going on. people are busy with lives and children. people ask is this guy trying to make my life better, and that's what they care about. he is responding too much to the focus group then he loses ground. >> let's talk about the populism. how do you connect the fact that the 1% as you say, the 1% of the 1%, the very, is very rich, the people spending all of this money, like 46 individuals doing the spending for these campaigns, what's their motivation in fighting your kind of fiscal policy. why are they against the policy. how does that connect? >> the hard right has been really against the notion that the government can create jobs. they have been against it for two reasons. one is, if you say that the government can do good stuff, maybe the government needs more money, which means it has to levy higher taxes on rich people. they want to say government can never do anything good, minimal government because i don't want

to pay taxes. also, there's a big thing in the business world that says, you need confidence. and that that translates into you can't say anything remotely critical about big business or remotely critical about wall street because that would hurt confidence. if you say we can create jobs by providing aide, then we don't need the confidence so much. this is a club they're holding over the head of the president, and they hate there is an alternative that would make that club not so valuable. >> the name of the book, end this depression now, paul krugman, everybody reads you as the ideal. john heilmann we miss you. thank you again. coming up, dirty rank ri money,

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welcome back to "hardball," as part of our "hardball" series, dirty angry money, we're looking at the influence of super packs and the influence they have on our system. it stems from citizen's united that decided independent spending by labor corporations could not be banned. the center of the opposition on that seems to be the state of montana. they upheld a 1912 law out there in direct defiance of the supreme court citizens united decision. they bar corporate spending in

elections. yesterday, the governor and his lieutenant governor through their support behind an initiative that would make it state policy to bar corporate money into politics. thank you for joining us. tell us how you as a governor and your republican lieutenant governor have the power to challenge this awful new supreme court ruling that has really dirtied up politics. >> we have power because we're we're citizens of the united states of america. we have stand with montanaians. politicians cannot bribe their way into the state capital or washington dc. there is something perverse about this. in 1977, congress said the corrupt foreign practices act

made it against the law for bribe lg politicians in other countries. now they're saying they can bribe them in other states. there's a monopoly on bribes in this country? what's this say to the rest of the world. they spend money so they can get somebody. that means lower taxes and less regulation. i don't dislike corporations, but why were we giving money in the last election? they say because we were getting something. >> you would think -- i thought think there this afternoon with the producers, if this is to get the right people in that will march to your tune, you might as well get a tax deduction for it. let's go all the way with this absurdity. if it's in your interest, that's another cost of doing business. let me ask you about this

system. right now we were looking at numbers now, just to help you make your case, perhaps, something like 46 people in corporations are providing the lions share of all of this corporate money. all of this is down to less than 50 people right now. it's a few people like the coke brothers, and the casino operator, it's like one of those old latin american horror stories. it's getting back to that. in our republic. >> what's even worse than that. i'm a shareholder like a lot of america is. if you want a little corporation, a family corporation, you say we might want to get involved in politics too, we have an extra five or t ten thousand you're a piker. there isn't any possibility that you're going to have a place at the table. it's a couple dozen

multinational corporations that will decide our elections. by the way, these multinational corporations are also owned by foreign nationals. so are we saying if you're a resident of germany or iran, and you are a shareholder, you get a say in american elections. >> how will you do this? it seems to me we're looking down the road to the worst amount of spending in campaigns on both sides. here you have this negative advertisement with no signature on it, it's totally negative, all of the republicans will trash obama, the democrats will retort and trash romney. nobody wants to vote. my question is you have a 1912 law, what do you do now? you go to the supreme court? does judge roberts think he made a mistake. i heard a rumor their

embarrassed by this series of decisions. is there any chance they will reverse? >> they should be embarrassed by this. on the ballot we will have an issue of 166 that says we in montana reaffirm that corporations are not people. that they can't bribe people in these elections. it will be on our ballot. this ballot will direct our congressional delegation to support a constitutional amendment that simply says corporations are not people and they cannot bribe politicians. montana maybe has to go first again. we went first in 1912 when we banned corporate money in our elections and we don't mind going first this time. we influence montana what corporations can do when they own an entire state. the copper kings owned all of montana. it was lock, stock, and barrel, and the residents stood up and said not here. when people hear about this in

other states, they will demand from their members to pass a amendment to make our elections clean again. otherwise, foreigners by investing in american corporations will be involved in our elections. they can bribe congress to get whatever tax and regulatory treatment they want. this is not the american way, this is not what made the country great, and we want americans to stand up, and we'll start right here in montana, thank you very much. >> i think it's amazing the point you made, the fact that we can -- you can go to jail for bribing mexican officials but you can do it here under the law. thank you, governor, for coming with your campaign. up next, now that newt gingrich is out of the race, does he still think mitt romney is a liar, that's the word he used again and again. let's see him dance around that question now that he wants to be part of the group coming to washington they hope. i went to a small high school.

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become to -- back to "hardball" now. now that newt gingrich is preparing himself for endorsing mitt romney, people are wondering if he will take back some of his zingers. let's look at one of them and how newt danced around it in an interview last night. >> are you calling mitt romney a liar? >> yes. >> do you still believe he is a liar. >> i believe they said things that were not true. >> forget about the campaign. >> he said things at times that were not true. >> so the answer is yes? >> i think compared to barack obama, i would trust mitt romney a hundred times over. >> so now lying is a matter of

degree? when you want to think about all of that forgotten michele bachmann campaign, here is a reminder. >> what people recognize is there is a fear that the united states is an unstoppable decline. they say the rise of china and rise of india, the rise of the soviet union, and our loss militarily going forward. >> again, that old bug a boo about that cold war in the soviet union that existed 20 years ago. here is david brody earlier this week. >> you ran nearly a mistake free campaign. >> thank you, we were very careful. except for two things. >> bachmann said she and john

wayne both came from waterloo, not realizing the john wayne from waterloo was a serial killer, not the duke. and you may remember these ads about a bear in the woods. >> there is a bear in the woods, for some people, the bear is easy to see, others don't see it at all. some say the bear is tame, others say it's vicious and dangerous. since no one can really be sure who is right, isn't it smart to be as strong as the bear? if there is a bear? >> a powerful ad, last month, vermont's governor discovered four bears in the woods. he says he woke up with four bears in the wood. he went to get his bird feeders

and was chased by a bear. the campaign for randy brock could not resist a reagan throw back. >> there is a bear in the woods, for most people in virginia, the bear is easy to see, why can't he see any of the bears. why can't governor shummlin see any of them. isn't it smart to look out for bears? i think the reagan one was better, sorry. here is another big question after the romney staffer was forced to quit, why do gay republicans want to belong to a party that will not stand up for them? i'm walt gale,

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hello, i'm milissa rehberger, leon panetta addressed troops earlier. according to court documents filed for jerry sandusky imply there are up to 17 accusers in the sex abuse case against him more than the ten prevent hi mentioned. and one of the beastie boys died at age 47 of cancer. back to "hardball." >> we wanted him to stay with our team. he is a very accomplished spokes person, and we select people not

on their sex, or religion, we are sorry to see him go. a whole series of my people and supporters called him and encouraged him to stay, but he expressed a desire to move on. >> that's why people don't trust politicians. that was mitt romney's public remark regarding the resignation of grenell. he asked what is your response to his resignation. that neglects the stronger case, why would mitt romney just say i want you back on the campaign. he won't do it, and it opens up a larger question. why would an openly gay person like richard grenell want to be in a party that will not stand up for him again and again and

again. let's talk about it. gay man? >> yes, he is on six ballots, making a point. mark, look, i studies politics, common sense tells you that mitt romney is lying to us there. he could simply have said two days ago, don't quit, ip need you buddy, i need you. don't listen to these guys around you, i need you. don't listen to the right wing guy on the radio, i need you. instead, he lets his staffers call up the guy right before a big briefing, which richard grenell said the campaign requested that you not speak on this call. it's best to lay low now. we don't really want you known to be our spokesman because you're gay. why do people put up with this? >> they shouldn't, and i believe

mitt. >> when your spokesperson is a distraction. >> distraction to who? wouldn't it be great if he stood up for people regardless of orientation? >> he is an incredible person. he deserves the job, and mitt should have stood up. >> this is the problem. let me ask you this way, i will ask you it this way. if mitt romney this afternoon after we close tonight, 2:00 in the morning says i make a mistake, says rehire that guy, wouldn't you be thrilled? >> i would be. >> it shows guts. >> and i think that's what's lacking. look what white house did to hillary the other day on the comments about mrs. romney. they almost acted like they never met her. >> that was when she said mrs. romney never worked a day in her

life. when you make a mistake, you get punished and sent to the wood shed. >> what was his mistake, being gay? >> no, that's what i would like to no. i don't think he made a mistake on that, you're such a team player. >> here we're getting to a fundamental point. i worked in politics longer than this guy has been involved in it. i always knew there were gay people working at high levels from the top aide, it's a known fact in both parties. why do they continue to serve a party that will not give lip service to the rights of the people that work for them. >> well, i have had good fortune with the republican party at the national level, state and county level, i have been treated very, very well. my problem has been with the third party groups like the brian fishers of the world, the

american family association, they're the ones -- >> you mean the allies? that's like saying they're not exactly independent, their the right wing evangelical coalition that built a republican majority, how can you say they're outside, their part of the team. >> they're driving people away, and don't forget. he was attacking romney and his faith before he caved in and got rid of rick grenell. >> message to gay men and women. they would whether have the crazy nuts on his side. >> sadly -- >> and mark, the party will be marginalized. >> the party will continue to be marginalized. >> is it your experience, mark, you worked in the congress, people always accepted you, everybody knows it, i never thought much about it, but fine, here is my question. do republicans and democrats

have the same percentage of gays in the parties? >> absolutely. >> there is no gays -- they -- >> not all of them, they do to some degree. >> but their participating in the leadership decisions of the party for the issues affecting them. your party is probably going to come out against -- it should stay neutral, but they should come out on same sex. they will be against it. >> they are working hard, trying their best. >> do they get on the floor of the convention? >> see, let me go back to fred, this is you guys, you laugh it off, you have great spirit about it, but fred, isn't it odd that a major percentage, one out of 20 of a party can't speak for

their interest. isn't that weird? >> i think mark and i are trying to change things from within. it would be easy to leave the republican party and the crazies would truly take over. don't forget the president of the united states is evolving on gay marriage. >> but it isn't of involving against you, it's involving for you. >> he supported it. >> okay. >> he supported it in '96, he was a big advocate. >> yeah, it's easier when you're a state senator in chicago. >> remember when clinton signed the nondiscrimination pledge. i went to gingrich and said if you're serious about people who are gay being fired for being gay, give pink slips to half of

the people at that building over there. people don't look at people and say gay-credible, gay not credible. there is an evolution. rick grenell would have been a phenomenal spokesperson. it's a glass closet. tell what the glass closet is, everybody knows it, but there is no sign saying we hire gays. >> i lived it. >> you live it. >> no i lived that like for 30 years ago, i know a lot of people who have come out. there's a lot of dialogue because of rick grenell and his courage that have come out as a result of him. romney, i was on the same program with romney right before the primary there. he mentioned lincoln once, none

of the other speakers but me mentioned lincoln. it's not just ducking away from the gay issues, it's also backing away from immigration, women, driving so many people from the republican party they have a death wish. >> yeah, they're more with the other guy. >> remember the problem senior bush had when bucanan give that ugly speech. i hope this is a teachable moment. >> you have a good sense of humor, fred. thank you, good to see you both. good luck in your campaign in those six states in which you serve well on the ballot. up next the secret service agent assigned to jack ji kennedy. he was a body guard for her that day in dallas. there are the pictures, and he became one of her closest friends. the great clint hill will be with us. ♪ surf's up everybody get your boards and your wetsuits ♪

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it may put the seat in play in the fall. a match up is much tighter. we'll be right back. need any help? uh, nope. just, uh, checking out my ad. nice. but, y'know,

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the first lady and the president. he was assigned to jackie kennedys security detail back then. he recounts the whole experience in his new book "mrs. kennedy and me." i really vowed i'd nev write a book of my kind. i met lisa who is a writer. i began to trust her and had confidence in her. she started to convince me that the information i had was historic and should be documented. i finally agreed, and that's what we decided to do. >> i guess the question everybody wants to know is you heard the shots. >> yes. >> and you raced today car. what happened then? >> i raced to the car but just before i got there the third shot was fired. i didn't hear the second shot because i was running. third shot fired as i approached the car. hit the president in the head, upper right rear. it was a tremendous wound causing blood and brain matter

to come out over myself and the car. about that time mrs. kennedy came up on the trunk of the car. she was tried to receive material that came off the president's head. i got off the car and pushed her back into the seat. when i did that the president's body fell into her lap. >> the car was moving? >> it was continuously moving. it caused me to slip. my objective was to get on top and form a shield between the president and mrs. kennedy and whoever was firing at them. we had no idea how many shots were going to be fired. >> when you went back, 1990. i've been there. it's so strange to see the pictures. it didn't look like a hard shot. >> it wasn't. you look from the window where the firing took place to the impact point on the street, it's not very far at all. >> he was trained marksman from the marines.

>> correct. he had all the advantages that day. we didn't have any. he was to our rear to the back. we didn't have chance to get to him. >> today, anywhere near the white house, anywhere near the president now we saw with the vice president coming to our studio today, there's so much secret service now and so much surveillance. you couldn't stick a rifle barrel out the window. >> i don't think he stuck it out the window. he was inside the window with the barrel on the window. >> could he do that today? >> perhaps. more than likely wouldn't do any good because the president would be in fally armored car. no open cars. >> a lot of people wondered about if there had been the bubble top. it was still not bullet proof? >> not at all. >> my argument against all

conspiracy theories is it was a crime of opportunity. he was trying to get nixon. it couldn't have been put there because nobody knew what the parade route was going to be. it was a commi sympathizer. did you form any conclusions? >> he was a lone shooter. >> let me ask you about the jackie kennedy. what was she like? >> a wonderful woman. really a great hands on mother. dedicated wife. a very athletic woman. she loved to ride horses and very good at it. loved to water ski. >> she loved you guys. i got a hold of her first typed text after the assassination and she talked about you. how much you really loved the family and looked after them. it was very personal. >> we were very close. we were very close with john and carolyn. we were with them all the time.

i was gone from my family 80 to 90% of the time. all that time i was with mrs. kennedy and the children. i had two boys. they grew up without me. always working and with her. took her to dinner. >> looked out for her. i love the idea of john john practicing his salute. i saw an old picture of him at the weekend retreat house where she was rehearsing him. >> yes. >> name of the book "mrs. kennedy and me." i think you should get this book. thanks, clint. when we return let me finish with my praise for the secret service. [ female announcer ] removing facial hair can be irritating. challenge that. olay smooth finish facial hair removal duo. first a gentle balm then the removal cream.

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let me finish with thp. we just had clint hill onto talk about the secret service. he's a sterling model of the agents that's been assigned to the service over the decadedeca. there are thousands of others, people like jerry par who save ed ronald reagan. had he not done what he did that bleak day and getting him to the hospital, there's a real question whether reagan could

have made it. i don't doubt there are many stories like this on the part of those defending the presidents. because of a few knuckle heads, the reputation of the secret service has been harmed, not permanently but for a while. we've had a couple of stories for stories to find their way to the service. if they were abundant, we'd be sharing them now. we'd be talking about them here. the clint hill story, what he did on november 22nd to try to save president kennedy, what he did to protect be president's wife belong among the real sterling stories of the secret service. they tell the story that makes the young men and women want to grow up and someday take their place. every time i walk through the white house gate, i'm impressed by the professionalism and dedication of the secret service. i'm glad that this story of a few knuckle heads who made bad middle of the nig