that is a new one, we don't have sleeping in the recliner due to a face-lift. she cannot physically cannot move her body or her face, has nothing else to to do but watch this show. that's a new demo for us. what else, john? >> i got lynn on the west coast. she writes, just got home from singing elizabethan drinking songs with some fellow performers from the renaissance pleasure fair. >> that's from the west coast? we like the west coast audience rolling in drunk after singing elizabethan songs. >> james writes, i willie, i enjoy the way you present information. your producer seems to have it altogether. >> that's the equivalent of someone retweeting saying, you're the best show ever. you've changed my life, retweet. "morning joe" starts right now. many were suggesting that the president's hand was forced

by his vice president, old flash bulbs magillacutie, with his remarks on "meet the press" last sunday. >> would i have preferred to have done this in my own way, in my own terms, without there being a lot of notice to everybody? of course. but all is well that ends well. >> well, there you go. so kind of forced your hand. a big-mouthed friend of yours, you know, said something, and now everybody knows something about you that you were hoping to tell them in your own way. congratulations, mr. president. you really have walked a mile in gay america's shoes. welcome to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of new york city. gosh, look at that. sun rising. over the island. good morning. it is friday, may 11. we are here in washington, d.c.,

with msnbc analyst and former president of the rnc michael steele. also, mark mckinnon. political editor and white house correspondent for "the huffington post" sam stein, suffering through one of the more miserable slides in red sox history. recently at least. >> it's terrible. >> also in new york, willie geist along with the executive editor at random house, pulitzer prize-winning historian and former red sox shortstop, jon meacham. good to see you guys. let me ask all of you, and sam, since you're youngest and can remember your middle school days, there's a big story in "the washington post" talking about how -- huge story actually about how mitt romney was not only a prankster, but that he was a bully. and "the new york times" is actually running it on the first page, that romney is having to

apologize for a bullying incident. and the young man at the time that he was bullying ended up being gay later on, coming out. listen, when you run for president, everything is on the front pages. but let me ask you, what -- do you ever wake up in the middle of the night, as do i, and think about something thoughtless or something you did in high school and just start sweating? i mean, is this a standard all males go by, that you have this plastered of something that you did when you were 16? do you understand what i'm saying? i do think back at times and say, oh, my god, i said what to that kid? or i did what? >> no. listen, you look back at your high school days, and i look back at what i did in high school and i regret a lot of the things. and that includes probably and definitely some areas of

homophobia. and it's a testament to the country that we are getting beyond that. we have these anti-bullying and it gets better campaigns. but the fact we still have the campaigns shows that it's still a problem. >> by the way, we're not justifying anything anybody has done. >> no. >> but you are exactly right. especially go back 10 years, 20 years. 30 years. >> and the thing is, you're right. i think when you're president, this stuff is fair game. it gets brought up, put on the front page of the paper. and i think some of the -- what's sticking out about this story is just the graphicness of what happened to that kid, which is pinned down and hair cut, which seems a bit more excessive than the normal bullying. that said, i think you're right. we look back at those days and we wonder what kind of person we were. and it's tough. it's a very tough sort of line to draw whether this is fair political game. to what extent we should judge mitt romney now on who he was back then. but i think it's absolutely fair

journalism, to be honest with you. >> i think as a story, i don't know, though, that it's this big of a story on the front page. >> there's two more pages inside on it. >> and two more pages inside. mark mckinnon, you know, i actually tried to be the guy that talked to kids that other people weren't talking to. that said, when you're 14, 15, 16, i'm not defending romney. again, i'm just talking about journalism here. we've all done some pretty stupid things before. and i wonder whether it in the middle of a presidential campaign warrants three full pages. >> well, you know, it means that none of us could run for president. >> who would want to run for president, though? >> it means nobody can run for president. when you look at, you know, what our public life looks like today, good people aren't going into public service anymore. i was told the other day that the number of women running for

office now is declining. and i think it's the nature and the poisonous environment, and the media scrutiny, that are just driving good people out. >> and there's no doubt that the timing of this, willie geist, the timing of this obviously is in line with barack obama coming out a couple of days ago, saying -- i'm sorry. it's a fun -- i mean, the media response to barack obama saying absolutely nothing, and the immortal words of pat buchanan celebrating a big fat nothing burger when barack obama basically said, i've got the same position on gay marriage as ron paul or ronald reagan. i'm not going to do anything about it. the states can do what they want. but it seems to me that a story like this is timed to go along with the media celebrating barack obama saying he's going to let states ban gay marriage. >> mark halperin said it yesterday on the show, and i think he's right. there's no downside for the president given that just about every single member of the media

agrees with his position. so it will be celebrated. the timing of the piece, it is a bit curious, the day after. and i think voters will have to decide whether or not an incident that took place in 1965 is reflective of the character today of mitt romney. he came out yesterday and said, he doesn't remember the incident. if he in fact did that, if someone was hurt by that, he says he would apologize certainly. abc news actually talked to the sister of the man who was a young man at the time alleged to have been the victim here. and one of his sisters says the family of john lobner, forgive me if i'm not saying his name right, says the portrayal of john is factually incorrect and we are aggrieved that he would be used to further a political agenda. that's a comment from the family, just to throw that in. >> wow. and michael steele, i want to go back, though about what mark halperin said yesterday, everybody agrees in the media. i want to talk slowly here. >> ok.

>> because i want to explain to people that don't understand this. that when barack obama said what he said to robin roberts, he might as well have spoken about red sox baseball. because first of all, who among us thought that barack obama was ever personally against gay marriage? anybody? >> right. >> nobody. so nothing new there. secondly, barack obama told robin roberts that he was taking the joe scarborough position. the william f. buckley position. the ron paul position. the federalism position. the 10th amendment position. the state's rights position. that we're going to let states decide about gay marriage. this is as conservative a position, and with all due respect to what mark said yesterday, nobody that i know in the media believes this. everybody in the media that i talk to behind closed doors thinks the federal government should come in and declare gay marriage constitutional. so, again, i think this is a shameful episode for the mainstream media, who covered up

for barack obama's hypocrisy all along, saying i'm evolving on this issue. to now making it even worse by claiming that a statement that means absolutely nothing, i think "the new york times" said was a historic moment for gay marriage. it just wasn't. it was nothing. >> well, in my estimation, it was nothing historic or heroic about what the president said. 1996, the president had the exact same position. by 2004, when he was running for the u.s. senate, that had evolved into something that he couldn't support gay marriage because, you know, it went against his faith values. then by the time he gets into the 2008 campaign, he's back somewhat close. so the reality of it is the president is not anchored in this issue at all. for the press to pretend that he is, that he woke up and had some kind of, you know, knight's templar journey to the holy grail on this issue is ludicrous. the reality of it is, this is $15 million worth of pandering.

this is $24 million in total by the time all of the fundraising between last night and monday is done. and the reality there, you want to cut that out and you don't want to talk about that. but you've got to put it in the total context. >> but there's no practical impact to this statement. >> there's money. >> but there is no practical impact. and i want to give off of this soon. but, again, i am very disappointed that the media has continued to cover up for barack obama. his hypocrisy on this issue. there's no way to spin this, jon meacham. i wrote in a blog last night on politico that never have so many democrats been champions of state's rights since lester maddox and george wallace ran southern states back in the days of segregation. >> it's like when the supreme court under bush v gore became very interested in federal authority. >> yeah. >> and stopping the recount. >> exactly. >> you know, where you stand depends on where you sit in many ways.

you know, rhetorically, i think you're right. i don't know anyone who would have argued that obama, the president, actually was against this going forward. i always thought for him it was a center right -- a compromise in a center right country to try to win some votes in the middle. i think at this point if you take both the statement by the president and then the kind of thing -- "the washington post" story about romney, which you're right, lord knows if you have everything that everyone had done throughout their whole life, we would be in anarchy because no one could govern. you have a sense here i think where the title of the campaign right now is basic instinct. the bases are going to be fired up about these different things. but any independent voter it seems to me who is still actually on the fence between obama and romney is going to be thinking at a level that is more complex and more nuanced than

any one -- either one of these things will do. nobody who's an independent voter in ohio it seems to me is going to say, oh, my god, romney bullied somebody, and so i'm going it vote for obama. >> you're exactly right. this is about stirring up the base on both sides. and if you look at a new gallup poll that has just come out, there's a reason why everybody's trying to gin up their base, because this is a tight race. mitt romney has a slight lead right now over president obama on issues related to the economy. 61% of registered voters believe mitt romney would do a good job handling the economy over the next four years. that's nine percentage points higher than the 52% that say president obama would. when asked who would do a better job on the economy, the voters were evenly split between the two candidates. romney's of course doing his best to keep focus on the economy. pushing back against the local reporter during a stop in colorado who was asking him about issues like gay marriage

and legalizing marijuana. >> should marijuana be legalized for medical use? >> aren't there issues of significance that you'd like to talk about? the economy, the -- >> this is a significant issue in colorado. >> the economy, the growth of jobs, the need to put people back to work, the challenges of iran. we've got enormous issues that we face. >> well, mark mckinnon, mitt romney singing my song. i wish he would have been doing that six months ago. as far as -- and he sounded defensive there. but he does need to keep saying, because americans care about jobs. americans care about the debt. americans aren't obsessing over legalizing marijuana. or gay marriage. these are issues that certainly mean an awful lot to a segment of society. but probably not those swing voters, those 4% that are going to determine who is president. >> exactly. and that's why romney looks uncomfortable talking about the gay marriage issue on the day that obama -- he didn't attack the president on it.

he looked clearly like he wanted away from it because he knows the way to win the race is on that number where he is beating president obama right now by 11 points. >> why is that, sam stein? why do you have barack obama just leading by double digits on likability, and mitt romney upside down on some poll numbers that should be hurting him, and yet people seem to trust romney more right now on the economy? why? >> well, they think it's pretty self evident. the economy is not doing that well. the recovery that seemed promising early on in the year has slowed down a little bit. there isn't seem to be any legislative remedy in the works for how to create jobs. congress can't get anything done. and so the natural tendency i would guess is to find someone else to come in and fix the situation. i want to just go back quickly because i know, and i agree with you, there is no practical political consequence to the president coming out and saying he supports the state's rights

to have gay marriage. and i agree with that 100%. but i will say that there is a practical consequence to a sitting president coming out and saying he supports gay marriage in that it allows the issue to be discussed in a different way -- >> you're saying symbol klee? >> not just symbolically. we had so much reader feedback about our piece on this that the most powerful person in the land could talk about this in a way that's comfortable. >> let me ask you, though, did you ever believe for a second that barack obama did not support gay marriage? >> no. but that's the thing. i always thought he did. >> did anybody in the democratic base think that obama did not personally support gay marriage? >> but because he was politically afraid to go out and say that he support the gay marriage, it cost this skepticism around the concept that really shouldn't have been there to begin with. for him to come out and say, listen, i do support it. that i think for a lot of people was a very consequential thing. >> jon meacham, we had a few

weeks ago bob cairo on talking about lbj, and of course going back to what lyndon johnson did in 1957, where he took a step away from the southern segregationists and decided to pass a civil rights bill through the united states senate. matt by yesterday with the times said this was not a johnsonian moment, in fact it looked quite weak. historically, do you agree with matt by? do you agree with what sam stein said? how significant is it for barack obama to come out and say that he supports gay marriage, despite the fact that he says i'm going to allow states to ban it, despite the fact he said something that we all knew before he talked to robin roberts? >> well, it's not 1957, and it's not by far obviously '64 or '65 where you had federal legislation undoing jim crow and

remarkably strong barriers to racial justice. those achievements are not within hailing distance of this. because what the president did was make a rhetorical statement that he -- i think sam has a good point. this is important to a lot of americans. and it signals the president's support of these initiatives, whether he actually puts any political or governmental power attempts behind it is another question. but rhetorically, this is a good thing for libertyianism, people who support the rights of all americans to participate in civil rituals and institutions. but the idea that this is we shall overcome is way overdone. >> a very good day for states rights people and champions of

the 10th amendment, as i am. we're going to talk also this morning -- i just have to hold this up. "new york times," talking about what we've been predicting now for a couple of years, that this china explosion could be built on a bubble. growth is slowing down. there's unrest. the chinese are having to spend a lot of money on stopping an insurrection, stopping another tianamen square. so the next time somebody tells you that the united states is going to be surpassed by china in the coming decade, you know, ask yourself a couple of questions. do we have to spend billions of dollars stopping people from overthrowing our government? come up with the answer and we'll actually give you a prize if you answer it correctly. coming up, one was the first man to ever step on the moon. the other piloted space shuttle

"endeavor's" final flight. neil armstrong and mark kelly will join us. david gregory, "meet the press," will be here. and chris matthews will be here. but first, let's go to bill karins for a check on the forecast. bill, please tell me we're going to have a nice weekend. >> joe, a perfect 10 for mom and everyone else this weekend. so many areas. there's going to be a few exceptions. it's a big country. usually we have a few trouble spots. that right now is down along the texas coast, headed for louisiana. heavy rain overnight around houston is ending. but lake charles, beaumont, that's where the worst of it is. also light rain heading up into oklahoma. as far as the forecast goes, it is a beautiful morning on the eastern seaboard. a little cool. it's a little crisp. it feels like a beautiful start to your spring morning. as we go through the afternoon, what an afternoon it will be. washington, d.c., 75. low humidity. southeast looks great.

middle of the country looks nice. just a slight chance of a storm in minneapolis. and the west coast, not just today, but even saturday and sunday, you are perfect. let me take you through your weekend forecast. we still are watching that troublesome spot down in louisiana, mississippi on saturday. and then for mother's day, i don't think too many of us are going to have a rainout sunday. but from areas of tennessee to kentucky, it will be cloudy and cool with on and off rain, and also alabama and mississippi. much of the east coast will be warm with 80s heading up into southern new england. so there's not a lot of trouble out there with the exception of the tennessee valley. looks like a great day to treat mom outdoors. beautiful sunrise over manhattan. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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it's time to take a look at the morning papers. let's start with "the new york times." today's front page of "the times" reads, as growth slows, doubts on china's state driven model. economists are calling for the chinese government to give up some of its control over financial systems as the nation faces slowed economic growth and political scandals. willie, we've been talking about that for a while now. it looks like some problems in china. >> economic and political coming together there. the "wall street journal," this is a big story on wall street. jp morgan chase reporting it lost more than $2 billion just in the past six weeks after the company took a bad bet on continued economic growth. it's raising new questions in washington about the need for further regulation of wall street. also in the "wall street journal," dish network is now offering a dvr feature that allows viewers to completely

avoid commercials rather than simply fast forwarding through ads. the service will cost subscribers $10 a month, in addition to a $99 up front fee. marketers say the feature could hurt advertising sales. duh. >> you think? >> willie, yeah, it's not pixie dust that keeps tv shows on. >> no. >> was that a tough quote to get from marketers? >> those marketers paid for that. >> where did they get that? an estimated 180,000 n non-u.s. residents are registered to vote in florida. the report says the information was not shared with county election officials or the state's election chief. >> 180,000? willie, that's amazing. >> that's amazing. look for more investigation into that. and how about this? a chance meeting in "the morning news" green room, andy cohen and

"parade" editor-in-chief maggie murphy came up with the idea for a cover, and there it is. this week's sunday "parade" magazine features andy and his wonderful mom, evelyn, talking about their special mother-son relationship, just in time for mother's day this sunday and for the release of andy's book, "most talkative" out this week. look who's in new york this week. mike allen, the chief white house correspondent from politico with a look at the playbook. >> good morning, guys. happy friday. >> there it is. >> b, great mother's day gift, mika's book. >> look at you? >> is she paying you for these plugs? >> "knowing your worth." >> that's very, very little. >> that's a lost cause for jon meacham. so there's a banner headline. armageddon in wisconsin. what do you remember? >> well, we do do subtlety very well. just four weeks from now, the recall election of the governor scott walker is turning into a dress rehearsal for the general election.

just about anybody who's going to be spending money this fall is spending money in wisconsin. so you have your environmentalists, your gun owners, abortion rights people. both national parties think that the outcome of this on june 5 will be a big momentum builder for them going into november. >> give a little back story for people. how did we get here and who's up against each other on june 5? >> the republican governor, scott walker, who had taken on the unions in the state, he is the first governor in a century to face a recall election. it was a pretty complicated process to get the signatures and to get this going. and it's pretty much a jump ball in a swing state. which is why both the national parties are looking at this so carefully. >> and teeing up against milwaukee mayor tom barrett, who won just this weekend in the primary. joe, do you think scott walker survives the recall? >> who knows? i mean, this thing is a lot closer than i thought it was going to be. you know, we were -- i was concerned early on that he was

being a bit too ideological, and unlike -- just to be blunt, john kasich and other governors that started out picking fights, scott walker self corrected himself. he said he made mistakes early on. even before the recall process. says he should have gone around the state. i think he's done all the right things politically. after a rocky six, seven, eight months. and i think because of that, he's going to end up winning. because he did. mike allen, i think most people that have followed scott walker realize that walker has self corrected, right? >> that's right. in public. but he recognizes that he should have taken a much more chris christie approach. governor christie in new jersey did a lot of the same things. took a lot of the same stands. and wound up more popular, not less. >> yeah. and, willie, the key is, and this is a key just for politicians over the next decade

that are dealing with budget shortfalls. if the argument is about math, if you are chris christie and go across jersey and say, here's the deal. we have public employees that are paying zero percent or 2% in their retirement, we can't afford that. we have to make them pay 5%, 6%, 7%, like you, people understand that. scott walker's mistake was he didn't just talk about math. he brought in collective bargaining. which of course had worked in other states too. but in wisconsin, that was ideological. it wasn't about math. it was about an ideological battle. that's where he lost it. if you as a politician say, hey, i'm just looking at the numbers here. the numbers don't lie. nobody can accuse you of being overtly ideological. he reached a bit too far. it happened with paul ryan last year in the medicare budget. you can say medicare can only grow at 2%. and fight that battle on math. but if you completely change the nature of medicare at the same

time you're lowering the rate of growth to 2%, you're doing two things at once. you're getting beyond math. you're allowing yourself to be attacked on ideological grounds. and it's -- young conservative republicans, democrats and independents, listen to me, make the argument about math, on cutting spending, you will always win. at least over the next decade. scott walker didn't do that. and he got in trouble. i think he self corrected, though. >> and the election is in 26 days, right? >> yeah. 26 days. >> june 5, yeah. >> to pull back the camera even more, for both sides, this is a reminder that in a 50/50 state like wisconsin, you can't overplay your hand. and the talk of mandates is almost a motive. >> one of the most important features in modern journalism is the playbook facts of life, which is the mike allen brain. >> no doubt. >> so play book facts of life on gop, gay marriage? >> i agree with basic instinct. republicans are not going to

talk about it. they like it because it helps them under the radar. you're not going to hear mitt romney talking about it. >> mike allen in new york city. happy friday to you, mike. >> thanks. happy mother's day weekend. coming up, the attorney general of the state of delaware, the son of course of the vice president of the united states, beau biden, will thibe joining us. but first, a new controversy involving josh beckett. and it doesn't involve chicken and beer in the clubhouse. that's coming up on "morning joe." today, we stand against the tyranny

of single mile credit cards. battle speech right? may i? [ horse neighs ] for too long, people have settled for single miles. with the capital one venture card, you'll earn double miles on every purchase, every day! [ visigoths cheer ] hawaii, here we come. [ alec ] so sign up today for a venture card at capitalone.com. and start earning double. [ all ] double miles! [ brays ] what's in your wallet? can you play games on that? not on the runway. no. you're doing okay, mom. i can call you "mom," right? i know we haven't known each other very long, but you seem like a real keeper. you're not perfect. but you're trying.

anyway, i want you to know how much i appreciate you. you know, right? how much i love you. you're doing okay, mom.

all right. sports. starting with the nba playoffs. the east, top seeded chicago bulls, which were top seed only after losing derrick rose, trying to stay alive against the eight-seed philadelphia sixers. sixers looking to close out the series in philly last night. it was a strange ending. fourth quarter, seven seconds on the clock. chicago up a point. but missed two free-throws. sixers grab the rebound. iguodala attacking the rim. he is fouled on the lay-up. not a good free-throw shooter but makes both to give the sixers a one-point lead with two seconds on the clock.

one last heave for cj watson. does not go. philadelphia wins on those free-throws. and eliminates the number one seeded chicago bulls, 79-78. the sixers' first trip to the second round of the playoffs since 2003. the celtics beat the hawks last night. that means they move on, and the sixers and celtics start their series on saturday in boston. the nuggets also beat the lakers, by the way, last night. that forces a game seven in l.a. tomorrow night. >> hey, willie, a lot of hand wringing over the new york knicks exit from the playoffs. why does this franchise never seem to be able to get past the first round? what is wrong with the knicks? >> they've made some terrible investments over the last 15 years or so. given huge contracts to guys who didn't deserve them. and have not allowed them to go out and get other pieces. in other words, have you carmelo anthony, great player. you have amare stoudemire, a very good player, but on the back end of his career. those two guys are going to gobble up their entire salary

cap next year. so it will be those two guys and a few other guys. >> they have won one -- >> they never put a full team together. >> they have won one playoff game in 11 years. and about as dysfunctional of a team over the past decade as i have ever seen. you know who else is dysfunctional as a team? the boston red sox. >> that's true. by the way, there's no excuse for the knicks. every player wants to play at madison square garden. but lebron james did not want to come play for the knicks when he could have. red sox. controversy surrounding josh beckett. the stud right-handed pitcher. on wednesday, a local radio station in boston reported that beckett was seen out golfing last week after it was announced he would miss his start on saturday because of a back injury. that story has been the talk of boston radio, of course, for the last few days. but last night, beckett had a chance to take the mound and silence the critics. and he did the exact opposite. fuelling the fire. beckett lasting only 2 1/3, giving up seven runs, including this solo home run in the third.

when beckett was pulled by bobby valentine, he was met by a chorus of boos from the red sox fans at fenway. >> wow. >> i thought you were going to hear some of the boos. anyway, there was a lot of booing. >> way to go, tj. that's great. >> there was a lot of booing in that game. >> willie, what did they do as he walked off? let's pretend that we have a director that actually -- god, i wish he'd go to disneyland. what happened when beckett walked off the mound? >> it's a derisive audio technique where you cup your hands around your mouth and make a boo sound like that. when everyone gets together and does it, it creates a -- >> a cacoughony. there you go. >> oh, he cut it off! he cut it off again! way to go, tj. holy cow. well, i bet you that beckett had something to say about this, willie. >> yes. keeping with tradition, we're going to play it without audio. here's what he said.

>> do you have any regrets that it could have, you know, hurt you because you didn't have the -- >> no. my off day is my off day. >> josh the reaction of the fans when you left the game, do you think that was more directed at you? do you think it was more directed at the poor performance of the team recently? >> i think it was directed at me. you know, i pitched like [ bleep ]. that's what happens. smart fans. >> josh, given that you skipped a start, do you think that people have a right to question why you were playing golf when the team said -- >> it was my off day. >> do you understand the perception that leaves when the team is playing as poorly as it has? >> you know, we get 18 off days a year. i think we deserve a little bit of time to ourselves. >> 18 off and the five months of the offseason. >> can i say something? when arianna calls me on a

saturday and says, sam, can you cover this, and i say, no way, my off day is my off day. >> i don't believe that. willie -- >> can't talk today. >> willie, we have talked about it for some time. it's a long season. the red sox can certainly come back and be in first place by the fourth of july break, by the all-star break. but this is the worst start in 16 years for the sox. and watching them play night in and night out, there's just not a lot to be cheerful about. >> terrible. >> they are terrible. they have actually had some good relief pitching over the past week. and they can't score a run. they're terrible. >> yeah. you're 30 games into the season now. it's hard to say -- you're almost 1/4 of the way in, and they're saved by the terrible royals and twins. other than that, they have the worst record in the american league. maybe a long season in boston. beau biden will be here with us next on "morning joe." for three hours a week, i'm a coach.

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he would never give up on any of us. i had already made a decision that we were going to take this position before the election. and before the convention. it probably got out a little bit before, but out of generosity of spirit. >> so you're not upset with anybody? >> would i have preferred to have done this in my own way, in my own terms, without i think there being a lot of notice to everybody? of course. but all's well that ends well. >> joining us now onset, delaware attorney general beau biden. general, may i call you general?

because jon meacham has instructed me in the south the attorney general is called the general. >> i'll take it. but real generals have stars on their shoulders. >> you can call him general then. >> i may need law enforcement help in delaware. you never know. >> smart, wise man. jon meacham asked you half kidding in the break, and we'll ask you, do you have any major white house initiatives you'd like to announce here this morning? >> i do not. >> does anyone in your family ski? >> we are a family of skiers. and great skiers. my dad is a phenomenal skier. >> there's been speculation on both sides of this. and i swear then we'll move on from it. that your father knew preslicis what he was doing or that this was a strategy by him to float the trial balloon. do you suspect he went off on his own on "meet the press" or was that a plan? >> my dad spoke from his heart on a very important issue, civil rights. and that's what he's done for 30 year says as a united states

senator. this is a fundamental human rights issue. and i'm proud of what he said, and i'm even more proud of what president of the united states said on a fundamental issue of civil rights. and i watched it with my dad. it was taped. and i sat there, and i was moved. i was as or more moved by the what the president said two days later. and in going even further. this is -- you know, i let other people focus on the process piece. there's a lot of interest about the process, and i understand that that's important. people want to kind of look behind the curtain. i don't get involved in that piece of it. that's for you all to look at. but i'm focused on a historic moment here. i have folks in the street and in the city of wilmington, stopping me, beeping the horn at me. you know, this is people with tears in their eyes. i mean, this is an incredibly moving moment for america, i think. >> can you talk a little bit about -- because i think your father went through an evolution on this as well.

strong catholic family. has the family talked about this through the years? what role did faith and those kinds of discussions play? >> sure, sure. i've talked if -- for sure, you know my family, jon. we have. and this is something that my dad has moved on. but you heard what he said. and i think that's why it was so poignant. this is about love. this is about who you love and how you love. and, you know, when you -- i have people that work with me that are married, that are same-sex marriages. have children. they're as good or better parents than anybody i know. and they love one another. and they are in committed relationships. i serve with people that are gay, i'm sure, in iraq. and today. you know, once you remove don't ask, don't tell, and you ask people to go fight a war on your behalf to defend the rights of this nation, to not allow people to get married, it just

doesn't -- it's not right. it's just fundamentally not right. and that's where my father, i think, spoke -- he can speak for himself, and i think he speaks like he speaks with candor and from the heart. and i think that's what this administration, that's what i think this president, expects from him. and i'm in incredibly proud of both of them. >> let's talk about some of the work you're doing as attorney general in the state of delaware. and getting together actually with new york's attorney general about the question of foreclosures. describe exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it. >> well, i'm up here with a bunch of other a.g.s yesterday and today. and, you know, one of the things we have got to make clear and what general sneiderman from here in new york is trying to make clear is that the $25 billion settlement that you all covered closely with the banks on this robo signing scandal, that is not the end of this enforcement action. and this is the beginning. you know, in the savings and

loan crisis that some of you remember out there, it cost the economy about $160 billion. 1,000 people went to jail for it. this crisis that was manmade, entity made, cost this economy trillions of dollars. and really, no one, if you go out there, and i went to a rotary club yesterday, the first question i was asked after i spoke about this issue, beau, how come no one is going to jail? and really no one has been held accountable. >> who do you believe should go to jail? >> we are focused on is whether or not there were false securities, mortgage backed securities sold to investors. that affects borrowers as well. you have an attorney general in missouri, chris coster, wonderful guy, co-chair of the democratic ag association, he actually indicted the company called doc ex, the ceo.

there was a woman named linda green, who has been famous, who signed thousands of affidavits. he, chris coster, indicted her for forgery. that's the kind of things we need to begin to do. kathryn cortes mastone of nevada is fighting this fight in nevada, which is at the epicenter of this crisis. we need to make sure that we investigate these things beyond robo signing and make sure we hold people accountable. people are angry. republicans and democrats, tea partiers and 99 percenters. they are angry that no one has been held accountable for something that they know is obviously fraud. and that's my job as attorney general. so it's a great time to be an attorney general. and that's why i've been so focussed on this. >> we appreciate your work on that and especially on veterans issues. we didn't have time to get to it. but as a veteran of the iraq war, you're doing very important work, and that's a problem that's getting more and more important.

>> i'm going to be part of an event for president obama for veterans. i am proud to support this president. >> general beau biden. >> i'll take it for this morning, but my army guys are going to give me a hard time about it. "week in review" is up next.

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prerecorded mika brzezinski, it's time for the week in review. president obama won west virginia's primary, but only within 20 points. >> at number three, keith judd. >> this is a challenger who claimed over 40% of the vote in west virginia. >> known to the fellows around the re krervegs yard in tex arcan as inmate number 11593-051, keith judd won 40% of the vote against president obama in west virginia's democratic primary. all the more impressive when you consider he campaigned from the same six by eight cell where he makes toilet wine. >> that is [ bleep ] up. >> judd got on the ballot in west virginia by filling out some forms and scaring up $2,500 doing god knows what in that federal lockup. beltway political experts say some of the vote was simply

protest against the president. but the vast majority was an endorsement of judd's running mate, a fluffy draped side ponytail. >> please tell me that the guy who got 40% of the vote is wearing a coonskin cap or is being attacked by a ferret, because -- oh, boy. >> at number two, power play. vladimir putin celebrated his reclamation of the russian presidency this week not with an inaugural ball, but by forcing people to play hockey with him on national television. the russian president with an afinity for stage craft from topless horseback riding to fake treasure finding, forced a young goalie to make the decision between letting putin score on a penalty shot and ever seeing his family ever. a wise choice, young netminder. the only thing that could make

this story any better at all would be a random cut away of italy's former bunga bunga prime minister in the stands cheering on putin. and the number one story of the week -- >> it's raining men. >> president obama this week completed a long personal evolution announcing publicly his support for gay marriage. >> i think same-sex couples should be able to get married. >> the president's declaration was expedited when his vice president weighed in perhaps off script on "meet the press." >> i am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women. >> he probably got out a little bit over his skis. but out of generosity of spirit. mitt romney, meanwhile, didn't seem all that up for talking social issues. >> aren't there issues of significance that you'd like to talk about? the economy -- >> this is a significant issue in colorado. >> the economy.

with the democratic base applauding the president's change of heart on gay marriage, the obvious next question is will that position hurt him come november with the all-important keith judd wing of the party? jon meacham, you know better than anybody the keith judd wing of the party could decide this election. >> it goes back to the mud wumps. >> we'll be right back. dude you don't understand, this is my dad's car.

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in 1981 when he was 34 years old, mitt romney was arrested, handcuffed and booked for disorderly conduct for launching his boat after a police officer told him not to. top 10 other mitt romney offenses. you wouldn't think, but apparent he has a rap sheet. top 10 other mitt romney offenses. here we go. number 10. first degree handsomeness. oh, my gosh. number nine, possession of more than four ounces of conditioner. number eight, was late paying sales tax for his dancing horse. here is his dancing horse. number seven. presses every button before getting off his beachouse car elevator. number six, once wore corduroy with seersucker.

number five, vaccination for dog tied to the top of the car. i can't get enough of this. every night. there he is. number four, reckless blow drying. yes. and number three, grand theft loafer. number two, butchering america the beautiful. ♪ above the fruited plain >> and the number one other mitt romney offense, involuntary dullness. there you go. [ applause ] >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour. with us, mark mckinnon and michael steele. also joining us, well, we have jon meacham in new york. and joining us at the table, pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. we have so much to talk about, gene. i want to talk about the front page of your paper. do you -- going after mitt romney for what he did in prep school. >> yeah.

>> we've been looking into your high school record too, joe. i have a couple of questions to ask you. >> well, i was just saying and sam stein agreed. i would hate to think that something that i did or said when i was 14, 15, or 16 would be splashed on the front page of "the washington post." actually, a three-page spread 40 years later. what about you? would you like to be judged by this standard of whether you ever made a mistake when you were a teenager? >> i don't believe i have declared my candidacy for the presidency, so no, i wouldn't. but the point is well taken. >> is it fair game? >> well, anything is fair game in a presidential candidate. and every election cycle, every newspaper does a long profile going back, you know, to neonatal moments of the major candidates. so they are both going to be investigated.

>> what about the timing, though? this bullying that romney apologized for yesterday was for a young man who eventually came out as a gay man. >> uh-huh. >> it seems about as suspiciously timed a story, a front page spread, as there could be. >> well, yeah, but -- >> coming a day or two after barack obama decides to take the less dramatic approach to gay marriage. >> well, the story went up on the website yesterday. as you know, as well as i do, that a story of that length and complexity doesn't get ready in a day. >> right. which, again, means that you guys have been working on it for a while and how interesting that it dropped two days after. i'm not asking you to defend "the washington post." we'll take it up with the oms budsman. >> obviously, mitt romney is fair game. but i thought it was interesting that the family of the man

involved in the incident felt very offended by it. is there any obligation on the part of the journalists to protect them or him? >> well, there are always competing obligations. but i think if you are writing about a presidential candidate and you come across something that you want to write about, and people who are involved in an ancillary way might not want you to write about it. >> next, we should ask you about bob woodward. >> you're taking shots. i don't mind at all. >> but let's talk about what you wrote about in "the washington post," the obama position on gay marriage a source of magic of hope and change that such fused his 2008 campaign has dissipated after 40 grueling months in office. obama's supporters could point to his accomplishments and cite

this as reasons why romney would be a poor replacement. he took a stance that might hurt him in key states reminding us that he could surprise and inspire us. did i just catch a whiff of the hopy-changy thing? i didn't know that you too were inspired by the 10th amendment and federalism. >> well, states rights is not a phrase they use very often, for reasons that you all understand. >> but barack obama has, though. >> however, it's a concept that as you know -- >> that lester maddox embraced. >> that liberals use interchangeably when it suits them. when it suits me, it's a state issue. when it doesn't suit me to be a suit issue, it's a federalist issue. and it's the same for conservatives.

conservatives feel the same way about, for example, the u.s. constitutional amendment on gay marriage. >> let me ask you this seriously. and i really want to know this because i don't think the press has handled this correctly. but i ask you this in all sincerity. if you believe that gay marriage is a civil right, marriage equality is a civil right, protected by the constitution, how do you -- i'm not talking about you, i'm talking about, let's say, a gay obama supporter, how does anyone take any solace in the president of the united states saying, i'm going to leave this to the states, it's none of my business as the president of the united states to guarantee that civil right. i don't understand that. >> well, i think what the president did, and the way he did it, reflects the reality. look, 30 states have state constitutional amendments against gay marriage. we know that. we know that it's not going to be legal or accepted nationwide.

>> gene, i understand that politically. but i'm saying, if you believe that it is a civil right, protected by the united states constitution, then practical politics don't outweigh the moral obligation of say, lyndon johnson in 1957, shoving through a civil rights bill in the senate before the country was ready for it. >> well, but i think you asked how do you take solace from this. and i do believe it should be a protected right across the country. but i think what the president did hastens that day. i think as states -- the eight states, and the district of colombia, in which gay marriage is legal now. i think as people get married in those jurisdictions, they move elsewhere. there are court cases and issues that arise from those marriages in jurisdictions where they are

not accepted. and then you have a situation where marriages are legal here but not legal there. i think this is going to sort itself out. and frankly, as tactuaryial tables will take care of this. for older people, it's not an issue. for younger people, it is. >> it's very interesting, jon meacham. when i went to sleep on monday night, i was considered a right wing closed minded bigot. and when i woke up the next morning, by the afternoon, i was progressive on gay marriage. i had no idea that the william f. buckley position on gay marriage was progressive. but apparently, it is, jon. >> we all got that memo. you didn't get that? >> no, i didn't get that. but i -- how fascinating now that i'm progressive on gay marriage. just because barack obama has adopted the conservative

position on this. jon, let's talk, though, about the tides of history. and i talked about lyndon johnson in 1957. three, four, five, six years later, john kennedy still couldn't push a civil rights bill through the united states senate. it took his assassination to gi give lyndon johnson the power to do that. gay marriage voted down by 20 percentage points just two days ago in a swing state that went for obama four years ago. the president is going to have to do a whole lot more than just pay lip service to this, if progressives are going to get what they want on this issue, right? >> i think so. that's why i think the johnsian analogy is wrong. i think putting the president's announcement in the best possible historical light, and there are many problems with this analogy, but for what it's worth, this may be like hubert

humphrey in 1948 giving the speech that broke up the democratic convention, that drove strom thurmond out. it could arguably be if you're going to do a time line in 10 years like truman trying to integrate the armed forces, something that roosevelt couldn't possibly do. and so it is a moment in a march that i do think will happen. i personally think should happen. and the numbers on this, mike gersen has talked about this, the move in public opinion numbers, not that we should legislate this way, but it is really, really remarkable. something like 48% of middle aged, younger, middle aged americans five years ago were in favor of this. now it's up to 60%. it is a -- i think it's a -- history is on the side of same-sex marriage being legal. and i do think -- i totally

agree with what you were saying a second ago. if you believe this is a civil right, if you believe in a religious sense this is a sacramental right, which i do, i don't think you should deny the sacraments to people because of the way they are born. then do you have to do something more dramatic. now as a burkian conservative, you would agree that it has to be gradual. so in that sense, obama is working in a probably more burkian sense than i think a lot of progressives would like him to. >> well, it certainly isn't reflective of what hubert humphrey did in 1948, storming out of the convention. it didn't show the courage of truman or of johnson in '57. but we'll see. i look also at the new gallup poll that is out right now, that talks about the economy. it shows mitt romney has a lead over president obama, mark mckinnon, when it comes to issues related to the economy. 61% of voters believe that

romney would do a good job handling the economy over the next four years. that's nine points higher than the 52% that believes barack obama would do a good job on this issue. and asked who would do a better job on the economy, the candidates are in a statistical tie. and i want to play you this clip of mitt romney. i thought he was a little too defensive when he said it to the reporter yesterday, but this actually i believe is a message he should keep going back to, that it's about the economy, stupid. take a look. >> one of our viewers, bill ferguson asks, should marijuana be legalized for medical issues -- >> aren't there issues of significance you'd like to talk about, the economy? >> this is a significant issue in colorado. >> the economy, the growth of jobs, the need to put people back to work, the challenges of iran. we have enormous issues that we face. >> again, mark, he sounded defensive. >> but he is on message. and it shows how he's evolved as a candidate. much better than he was in 2008. and you remember in that

primary, when he got to michigan, he figured out and got on message. he's been an extraordinarily disciplined candidate this time around, leading by nine points on the economy. this is a jump ball election. and if he can drive that message throughout the campaign, he's got a shot. >> next time you come into my office, i want those figures right. >> you do get a feeling, michael steele, you do get a feeling looking at mitt romney answering this question, that there will -- i have a feeling that a lot of people haven't pushed this guy in his life. >> no, no. >> and made him answer questions that he didn't want to answer. >> yeah, yeah, and that's very obvious. but going back to mark's point, i think when you look at 2008, you look at now you can really see that he's changed on many fronts. but on that front, the push by the press much more in his face on some of these issues, he's not quite ready to really kind of be relaxed about that. but having said that, i agree.

he is showing the discipline. he is getting back to the core discussion point, which is the economy. look, this issue on gay marriage is a nice spring dalliance. it's great. you know, it moves obama's numbers in terms of the dollars he's going to raise and all of that. but at the end of the day, when we get to labor day, as you well know, joe whether you're liberal, conservative, or independent, you will be looking at your bank account and that employment line and say to yourself, what has this president done to make this life better for myself and my family, to make my businesses work a little bit smoother, and make all of the economic arguments come into focus. there is no doubt about that the gay marriage issue will be a subtext. it won't play as well in places like ohio and other places like it did in 2004. >> what will play well there is mitt romney explaining how he opposed the auto bailout before he supported the auto bailout

before he opposed it. >> you didn't hear he saved detroit? >> yeah, saved detroit and all of the car factories in ohio. >> we'll talk about that next block and see if we can't find steve rattner and watch his head explode as he hears mitt romney taking credit for saving the auto industry. eugene robinson, stay with us. and a reminder he say champion of the states rights and 10th amendment. hopy changy moment for barack obama as he embraces the sort of new federalism. a sort of an update on lester maddox and george wallace's federalism. did i describe that right, gene? >> not even close. when we come back, we'll be talking about chris matthews. and also the first man to walk on the moon, neil armstrong. and also captain mark kelly. up next, david gregory will join us on the set to talk about the washington nationals and rub in the red sox record. but first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. what does mother's day look like

for us? thumbs up for so many. beautiful friday in a million spots. the only trouble spot this morning heavy rain along the tex texas coast now heading into louisiana, baton rouge into lake charles. new orleans, rain later. the east coast, a clear, cool, beautiful start to your day. everyone on the west coast will be looking at a gorgeous day today too. not bad in the northern plains. as far as today's forecast goes, heavy thunderstorms from dallas to houston and san antonio. weekend forecast, heavy rain on the gulf coast. that's the travel trouble spot saturday. and then into mother's day, the rain expands. watch out kentucky, tennessee, alabama, mississippi. those are the four areas that have minor concerns, especially if you're planning anything outdoors with mom. everywhere else, enjoy one of the best spring weekends of the year. especially for the eastern seaboard. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. managing my diabetes is part of my life,

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what were you really saying there? you were dead set against that rescue. >> no. here's what i said. and it's written down in an op-ed, where you can take a good look at it. this is back when george bush was president. and i said don't write them a check. they need to go through a managed bankruptcy. they have to get rid of the excess costs of the uaw and other excess costs. and then the government can help support. >> mitt romney just recently said that he deserves the credit for the revival of the u.s. auto industry. how do you respond to that? >> well, i think this is one of his etch a sketch moments. i don't think anybody takes that seriously. people remember his position, which was let's let detroit go

bankrupt. had we followed his advice, at that time, gm and chrysler would have gone under and we would have lost probably 1 million jobs throughout the midwest. >> and welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful shot of the capitol there. moderator of "meet the press." david, as you said off camera, nobody remembers what mitt romney's position was three years ago. >> people are walking around in the streets of dayton, ohio, going no, no, he was for managed bankruptcy. >> don't you understand, there's a difference between chapter 11 and chapters -- no, i don't think they are saying that. >> can i follow up on a tease? not only did the nationals win last night, some power and a great outing by straussburg, but the caps against the rangers, game seven saturday night. this is frankly all that anyone is talking about. >> yes. this is big. >> did you see ovechkin, the goal he almost scored sitting down? >> yes. >> it was fantastic. >> it was incredible.

>> david, you suggested that i come out a little bit more with my opinions. >> yes. i think a ought to just be more loose with the idea of how you feel about the president coming out for gay marriage. >> but he didn't come out for gay marriage. he came out for federalism, for 10th amendment, for states rights. a less dramatic george wallace position on civil rights. >> one, i do think the bully pulpit marriy matters. i think the president doing this kick starts a conversation, even though the conversation is ongoing at the state level. but i do think that you're right. it is important to point out, and walter dillinger and ted olson in an interview with frank bruni in "the new york times" pointed it out as well. there is not marriage equality in the united states for gays and lesbians because if you are married in new york, and you go to north carolina, move to north carolina, they will not recognize you as married. >> hey, here is the great news. at least we have a president who

now supports gay marriage. so that will go away. oh, wait a second. it doesn't change anything. he is back to the 10th amendment. >> joe, just because, you know, he isn't marching up to congress with a bill in his hand saying, i demand marriage equality now, doesn't mean that this was not a significant moment. >> david, it wasn't a significant moment because did you or anybody else that you know believe that barack obama was ever against gay marriage? you can go back to his earliest campaigns. he said he supported gay marriage. he threw that position away when it became political. >> hold on. >> hold on. he came out, gene, saying he supported gay marriage, and when it became politically unpopular for him to do that, he threw that position away. >> joe, you're making an argument you can't make. you can't make the argument that it's unimportant that the president running for president as president said i'm against gay marriage. i don't support it. and now says, i support it. you can't argue that -- >> what do you mean, he supports it?

he supports it in the same way that mario comeau is pro-life. i'm pro-life personally, but -- come on. it's the same thing. >> he understands -- there's a view in the legal community that trying to federalize gay marriage right now is not something that would be legally successful in congress and ultimate looly in the courts. your point is, if you're going to stand up for a civil right, stand up, and i agree with that. >> i'm sorry this is too much like first year law school. but if you believe that gay marriage is a civil right protected by the u.s. constitution, and i do not, but if you believe as barack obama and progressives who support barack obama and gay barack obama supporters who give him campaign money, believe that gay marriage is specifically protected by the united states constitution, then you cannot assign it to governors in north carolina and alabama and north dakota.

that is immoral. if i believe something is a civil right, i cannot say, you know, i'm just going to pass this off. if i'm president of the united states. do you understand that? >> i do understand it. but i also understand that the president uses the bully pulpit to try to influence the conversation has some futility -- >> you think it's a step forward? >> well, it's a step forward on this issue, a step in a different direction for this issue. and secondly, if your ultimate goal is to make it a federal issue, there is a pragmatic approach to making that happen. >> jon, you believe this is a burkian move by barack obama, that you take a step, politics is the art of the possible. >> absolutely. and i think in a classic anglican way, i'm right between you and david on this. i think i was for it before i was against it. but i do think it's a practical thing.

i am one of the many people who didn't really believe the president when he said for years that he was against this. but i do think big social reform tends to happen slowly in this country. and you have to think of it again sort of as what's the time line going to look like. and this will be -- the president sitting across from robin roberts, and then joe biden sitting across from david. by the way, david, did you make any news this week on the broadcast? so i do think that it's an important inflection point. now, is anything changed practically for anyone who wants to go get married? no. but these things take time. and i think it is a practical thing. joe, i wanted to ask you, if you are a libertarian conservative in a big tent party what is the position, what's the conversation, what's the place for a republican who is for gay

marriage as a libertarian matter? is that an issue that can be talked about openly? >> yeah. >> is it something that you just have to kind of roll with? >> well, i think actually, jon, i wrote this, and the reason why i guess i'm focusing a little too much on this is barack obama essentially took the position this week that i suggested republicans should take three years ago. and the book i wrote in 2009, talking about the republicans' way forward. and i said stop talking about social issues. stop obsessing about social issues. understand that the federal government shouldn't be obsessing over gay marriage. they shouldn't be obsessing over abortion. they shouldn't be obsessing over issues that divide americans. focus on the economy. focus on creating jobs. and so i think most libertarians believe, and mark mckinnon, unlike me -- and i just said -- and i think i'm being too much of a lawyer here.

because i've got to say on the issue of gay marriage, i think i am of my generation, that i am not shocked or stunned or deeply saddened if gay men or lesbian women can get married in iowa or new jersey or connecticut. i think it's up to the states. >> jon, i did write about it this week as well, my republican point of view, which is that if republicans believe in personal freedom and keeping government out of our lives we should be consistent about it across the board. and i said to a lot of my republican friends that i take what was written 200 years ago literally in the declaration of independence that we should have the right to pursue happiness. i think this is a very republican position. >> so the question is -- >> or ought to be. >> so the question is again, in this mini legal seminar, the question is, is it a -- and this is a legal question. >> i think it is constitutional.

>> david, for me, as a lawyer, the question is, is this specifically protected by the united states constitution? i'm not talking about two men living together. or two men even enjoying the benefits of a married couple. but to specifically have your union called, say, a marriage instead of a civil union. i don't see that in the constitution. but if you do, you better fight for it. >> well, you're making a legal point and also a leadership point. the legal point is can the federal government regulate marriage, which is a legal question. i think, you know, and i was up in new york last week, and we were talking about lyndon johnson. this is a leadership point. if the president of the united states believes that gay marriage is a civil right, does he then feel duty bound to push this in the same way that civil rights have been before? >> he must, right? >> well, i certainly believe he must. he hasn't been specifically asked that. but then does it fall short of complete commitment to say, i believe this, as a personal matter, but i don't really want

to get involved. i'm going to let the states do it. because the states are doing this. and proponents of gay marriage are on the losing side right now. so the president may be being pragmatic and saying, i'm going to argue this from the point of view of the bully pulpit, and the country will have to evolve to the point where the states move on this, and perhaps the supreme court at some point will then nationalize it and we have to kind of let this happen. and then perhaps federal leadership has a way of sort of squashing this. practice what he believes. >> jon meacham, you wanted to get in? >> i wanted to say, this goes to your point and to mark's point, there is a very conservative argument for gay marriage, if you believe that the virtue is the basis of the republic, and the republic requires stability, and the most important element in terms of stability is a family and a committed relationship. then in fact it's quite a conservative thing to be in favor of marriage as a publicly

committed relationship. >> seriously? spoken like a true episcopalian who would write a cover story for "time" magazine suggesting that heaven is just a state of mind. jon meacham, seriously? i was correct when i was said being episcopalian was a halfway house to full-blown atheistism. >> i'm wounded by all of these points, and i feel the soft bigotry of your anti-anglicanism. >> the immediate leak from constitutional law professor toy this -- to three lodgian is dizzying here. >> a lot of preachers i think would disagree with jon. that said, i have found it ironic that the gay rights movement over the past decade

has been fighting hard to do two things. one, to get married. and have monogamous relationships recognized by the state. and two, to go to war, fight for the country, and die. you actually have -- these battles are not over progressive ideas. they are to be accepted into a conservative small sea, part of society. >> joe, can i just say -- >> and that's why there was real pshychological response to the president's bully pulpit. >> i think so. what it does is reinforce what i think people are learning, which is the gay couple that lives down the street, they're just like us. they are just like everybody else, you know? they serve in the armed forces. and some time ago they couldn't do so openly. now they can do so more openly. they have committed relationships. they would like to formalize

them. but i wanted to ask you, did you just say that there was some difference between a constitutional and protected right to a civil union versus the same right to a marriage? is that -- >> no, no. >> is there a distinction there? >> what i'm saying is that if you believe that gay marriage, having your union called, quote, a marriage, is a constitutionally protected right, guaranteed under the united states constitution, then you have no choice but to do what hubert humphrey did in 1948 and storm out of the democratic convention because you were shocked by a states rights position. barack obama -- if you believe -- and a lot of people believe that the battle over marriage equality is the same as the battle that took place in the streets of alabama and mississippi and georgia in the 1960s, make no mistake of it, barack obama is on the -- and i'm not saying this even facetiously.

barack obama is on the side of lester maddox and george wallace. that's just a reality. logically. >> but it's not the same, joe. >> what's not the same? >> it's not the same battle. liberation struggles like this have things in common, and they have differences. so i have never thought that you could draw a straight line. >> but you have heard this. >> and i have always written you can't draw a sort of one to one line to the gay rights movement, civil rights movement, the women's movement, et cetera. but you seem to be saying this is a semantic difference between civil union and marriage. >> no. >> if it's just semantics, in other words, if you have all the rights and responsibilities that pertain to marriage, but you just call it a civil union, that that's somehow different. >> no. my position is, again, just looking at the united states constitution, you read the constitution, if you believe

that having a union called a marriage, if you believe that that is constitutionally protected, then you have to do everything in your power as president of the united states to fight for that. i do not believe that having your union called a marriage is constitutionally protected. >> you believe a union is constitutionally protected, a union of any kind? >> i just have to say, alex is freaking out. he said, joe, this is going to write terribly. [ laughter ] >> we're having a -- we are having a constitutional law argument. >> some say this is getting a little too dense. we need to cover the tanning bed mom. >> i would have mika over here who said i'm about to come on the set about something that's going to sway the election. >> mika not showing up until now.

>> it's been an hour and 40 minutes. but i've gone off the rails. so what do you have on "meet the press" this weekend? >> we'll have a -- >> we're going to talk about gay marriage and the political impacts, or something lame like that. we'll have jamie diamond talking to us about the state of the economy. i talked to him this week. but before this news came out about the derivative and so forth. >> thank you so much. we appreciate it. we're going to be posting your con law grades on the wall after this. gene robinson, thank you so much as well. >> this turned into an episode of "a beautiful mind." >> i know. exactly. eugene's post in support of states rights on "the washington post" online. ahead on "morning joe," mika

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this is exciting. >> well, he's good enough actually. >> he's great. >> what i was going to do to

help you all get the ratings back was put the cover up of a magazine. good to see you. chris matthews is joining us on the set. america's growing income disparity. he ask"morning joe" is back in moment. [ male announcer ] this is genco services -- mcallen, texas. in here, heavy rental equipment in the middle of nowhere, is always headed somewhere. to give it a sense of direction, at&t created a mobile asset solution to protect and track everything.

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helping you do what you do... even better. if you made a list of countries from around the world... ...with the best math scores. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place.

let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this. excuse me. here with us now -- >> can you believe that? it's pathetic. >> welcome back to "morning joe." we're never going to come in late again. here with us now, tim noah. tim is out with a new book, "the great diversion." also, joining the table, you heard him, the host of msnbc's "hardball" chris matthews. >> this is big. >> of course, the author of "jack kennedy elusive hero." and tomorrow, honorary degree from howard.

>> what an honor. >> fantastic. >> congratulations. >> congratulations. >> i don't have to give the speech, which is amazing. >> my god. a double. >> it's such a -- howard, what it stands for in history. and to be honored like this. >> historically, lbj went there. big history. >> it's my biggest honor besides being here. >> oh, very nice. >> we're going to talk a little bit later about your analysis of my brain scan that you conducted out there. >> i think it will be a cultural issue, by the way, the issue of marriage, in the churches, black and white churches. the issue is there. the president put down his marker. he did it the way he did it. but the most important thing is the way he did. and this will be fought about in the churches before november. >> i think you're right. we hear an awful lot about tax policy. over the past decade, over the past 30 years. so let's just say we tax the

rich. let's say we become french and tax the rich at 75%. don't we still have a problem with the i.t. revolution, that just basically has got this economy to a point where machines are making machines? you know, the average wage of male income earners has been on the decline since 1973. how do we reverse that? >> well, you know, inequality is a global issue. in my book, what i try to do is look at the question of why is it so much worse in the united states than it is everywhere else. >> is it worse in the united states? >> it's at a higher level, it's accelerating faster. yes. income inequality is growing faster in the united states, and is at a much higher level than anywhere else. >> than western europe? >> countries around the world have dealt with globalization. we have dealt with a lot worse. in terms of tax policy, we might be like france, but also like the united states before ronald reagan was elected president. chris will remember when he was working in the white house, the top marginal rate was 70%. a few years before that, the top

marginal rate was 90%. so 35% seems pretty low, by historical figures. >> bottom line it for me. do you think that this great divergence can be cured by a more progressive tax system? >> no. i don't think it can be cured by. it wasn't caused by the drop in marginal rates. but the drop in top marginal rates didn't help. >> so what was it caused by, other than globalization in 1978, china going global? unions being hollowed out because manufacturing went away? >> well, again, the question is why was it so much worse here in the united states. and certainly the collapse of labor in the united states was much more dramatic than it was in western european countries, where you still have relatively strong labor movement. the other thing that's unique to the united states is that our education system. throughout the 20th century, we had one technological change after another. starting with a really big one,

which was the advent of electricity. and every time that technological change occurred, there was a demand for more skilled workers, and the was ded for more workers and education always seemed to meet those demands. high school graduation rates rose and rose and rose until the '70s when they dipped off and then leveled off and then, of course, we had computers. the skill demands continued to increase but we weren't producing enough skilled workers. >> you know, just what you're saying, because we had edward conner on yesterday. do you know him? >> yes, i do. he loves inequality. >> yes. he says that income and equality, a million steve jobs are things that we need to improve the economy. what is more important? growth and jobs or income and

equality. >> steve jobs was a great man. he was not a good job creator. most of the jobs were overseas. in the book i say, you can take every american involved in building ipods in 2006, you could feed them at your house a pot of chili. a lot of critics of critics say we need income equality. of course we need income equality. the question is, how much do you need? and the other question is, isn't it it worry some when we see over 30 years income inequality that continues to increase. >> when people start talking about how america has gone into the decline over the past decade are, i remember driving past the steel factories in upstate new

york and northern pennsylvania and people going, oh, gosh, what's happened to america? i remember the jobs moving out of upstate new york. this is a battle we've been fighting and losing not since 1990 or 2000. since the early '70s. you know that. we've all heard it around the thanksgiving table every year for 30, 40 years. >> first of all, i want to congratulate -- this is the 50th anniversary of michael harrington, the other america. a great book. it influenced the great society and a new frontier even. by the way, there's something about conservatives that believe the best way to get rich people to work more is to make more money and poor people to work harder is to screw them. and i don't understand that theory. that's how we think. cut pell grants. want to make them work harder.

why do you want to cut poor people to get them to work harder. >> little people have not had a piece of the pie. don't middle class people need to be incentivized, too? >> yes, they do. but do you think we're going to figure this out by saying conservatives want -- >> why is the cable industry televised? because they had the unions in new york and none in jersey. the unions have been broken. >> but, chris, turn down the music for one second. we're going to have to ask chris to stay. >> yeah. >> but hold on a second here. if all you say is conservatives are bad -- >> no. >> chris, let me talk and then i'd like you to respond to oh this because i think this is an important point. if you just demonize republicans

are conservatives and free market people and you say, it's those bad guys that have broken the unions, you ignore a 50-year trend that has seen after the war, 30, 45% of the people were in the unions. why? because we were an industrialized nation. now that we're an i.t. and service nation, unions have been hallowed out. and i've always said, that's not good for anybody. but that follows the industries, though, and if we start getting more jobs from overseas -- >> you're better off with unionization? >> no. >> okay. that's what i'm saying. >> i've got to make this point. it's important. but unionization collapsed not just because of big, bad management and big, bad republicans, even if they were hostile. unions collapsed to 7% in the private sector because those jobs went away overseas. >> whose side are you on? >> i'm on the side of the middle

class. >> i think the unions benefited the middle class. >> i do too, chris. >> but the fact is we've got to get those jobs back, the union jobs back. >> nothing happens in a vacuum. the unions have a stay in their market. you can't make this bold conservatives. this is a global issue. >> we're at the top of the hour. >> we're at the top of the hour. >> can we talk to you on the other side? >> do we support unionization or globalization? >> the great divergence and what we can do it. tim, thank you for getting caught in this crossfire. we'll be right back. rin)

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oh, god. welcome back. >> it's great to have chris matthews on. >> welcome back to "morning joe." former rnc chairman michael steele and chris matthews. we've got to try to get the train back on the tracks. i thought the way to bring the ratings back up would be to flash one i am man on the screen. >> this is called flat friday. >> by the way, i missed this yesterday. >> no, you did not. >> seriously?

what's rick stingle thinking about? >> i don't know. i really don't know. >> it's called news stand. >> really? >> yeah. it started an argument. that's what a cover is supposed to do. >> well, next week they will tell me that people want to get spanked. no. that was newsweek. >> what do you think about this? front page "the washington post," mitt romney held a kid down in high school. >> we'll have a story about mitt romney taking your advice but being a little slil shrills. >> they were pushing it but clearly they enterprise the

story. >> how old is mitt romney? >> it's a question but obviously this is a person we don't know. >> how old was mitt romney? >> i don't know. 17 or 18. >> it was 1965. >> i think the part of it that is incredible, mika, whatever you judge in terms of the news placement, is does he remember? he clearly would remember. that's the part that i find incredible. i got the kids haircut, screaming and crying, anybody would remember that. what is kid about? you remember. you remember what happened in school. by the way, this does remind me of one of the novels. it's very much like that. what happened in high school does haunt you. >> of course. shapes you. >> the family of the young man who was held down and had his haircut is actually coming out attacking this story saying that

their relative has been miscast and they hate that his memory is being used as a political football. so there you go. let's talk actually about something that might rate but also more importantly, might have an impact on the 3 to 4 to 5% of voters. >> fantastic. >> and we have chris matthews here. it doesn't get better than that. >> cutting edge. >> yes, cutting edge. >> and he's getting an honorary degree tomorrow. >> yes. a little bigger than today. what i love is commencement addresses. when you get to do one of the speeches, you'll meet the parents five, ten years later and it may have faded in your memory but they remember you were there for their kid. i mean, they may have spent 200,000 to get their kid to school but you're there for their kid that day. especially families for the

first time, the first college graduate of the family. >> that's very exciting. congratulations. to the news now, do you know we're on the air? >> there's a new gallup poll that shows mitt romney has a slight lead over president obama relating to the economy. 61% of registered voters believe -- what, mika? >> they believe mitt romney would do a good job handling the economy. 52% say that of president obama. when asked who would do a better job on the economy, the candidates are in a statistical tie. when asked about issues like gay marriage and legalizing marijuana, he pushed back. >> should marijuana be -- >> aren't there issues of significance that you'd like to talk about? >> this is a significant issue in colorado. >> the economy? the growth of jobs? the need to put people back to work? the challenges of iran? we've got enormous issues that

we face. >> you know, chris, i said this earlier, mitt romney's tone wasn't right. but he's right on message. >> let's focus on jobs. >> he also sounds like someone told him to do it. why does he always sound like someone gave him the line? >> he sounded defensive because i don't think this is someone that's been challenged his entire life. >> remember the swedish boxer, he -- >> i dream of him. he's fantastic. >> he had one punch. it was a sunday punch. this guy's sunday punch is jobs. no matter what the issue is, why don't we talk about jobs? >> if you've only got one punch, that's a good punch to have. you look at these polls though, chris, and the gallup poll will show you that mitt romney's not

very favorite with people. yet he's in a statistical tie and here we see why, because right now it seems more americans trust him on the economy than barack obama. what does president obama have to do to turn that around? >> well, he's the pitcher in the mound. he has to get jobs. as long as we have this very weak growth rate of 2.2%, i really do think the sound of the engine, do you feel the purr, the roar of that engine? we don't. and as long as we don't hear that going through november, this election is going to be very dicey for november and that's the simplest as i can make it. >> by the way, jpmorgan lost $2 million because they were betting on the economy coming back. >> i say we talk about the billion dollars that businesses are going to put out. what about the 2 billion they are not spending. >> so much more important, why aren't the trillions of dollars that consumers are hoarding not being spent. that's a bigger question. the fed is borrowing from the people now.

people have so much savings. people are being hesitant. business is being hesitant. i don't know who has to signal this demand situation. unless we have demand through investment and consumption, this election is going to be very tricky for the president. >> and here's mitt romney. i believe this is mitt romney's best argument. if you're a conservative you don't say, these are the 12 things i'm going to have the federal government doing. you're going to say, i'm going to put a business environment out there that corporations and small businesses can trust so that $2 trillion that chris is talking about will be invested in the economy. >> here's the problem with the president. he has a fixed variable. he's pulled all of the levers that he can. he's dumped his tool kit out. romney still has an opportunity to lay out a course of things laid out in the next six months to talk about his plan. he has nowhere to go but up and it's not dependent on the economy. >> you know, he could have a

press conference and support simpson/bowles. even if he doesn't think it's going to pass the senate. republicans, now where are you? >> that would be fantastic. i've heard people -- >> he's not going to do that, though. because if he were, he would have by now. he has not evolved on simpson/bowles. >> he needs to change the equation on the economy. >> he's going to have to consider it. but the fact of the matter is. >> taxi quality and marriage equality. what simpson/bowles does, it gets rid of the difference between earned income and capital gains. the republicans will say, we can't do that. >> i'm not saying it has to pass. i'm saying if he puts it out there and then republicans start running for the exits, suddenly, john meacham, the president can say, wait a second, i'm being called the big republican

liberal? i think that corners the republicans. >> absolutely. when you look back at the last three years, i think the president's failure to push the report at the time, you know, he ordered it up and then put it in the draw and we're all the people who talk about it. but even if he lost, i think that would have sent the right signal. >> coburn was for it. >> as you all know as well, if you walk through new york city or walk through boston, every businessman you run into will say the reason they are sitting on the money is because they fear an uncertain regulatory climate. they just don't know and they don't really feel comfortable with the obama administration and they don't know where regulation might come. and so i think that's -- leave aside the merits of it, that is the psychological reality among most business people that i've talked to. >> mika, and you hear that, not

only among corporate leaders, you hear that among small business people and, more importantly, you hear that among progressive ceos that we know very well who supported the president four years ago who said, i'm not going to invest the money until i know there's not going to be a new regulatory scheme that's going to require me to go in and change my business plan for the next five years. >> it's such a good idea. it feeds into what i think exists fairly or not and with credibility or not mitt romney's narrative that he could really run with and i can think of four ceos that we've had lunch with or interaction with. >> democratic ceos. >> both sides of the aisle who would think that would be an amazing idea and who would be for that and think, wow, mitt romney stands for something. >> but the question i would have on that, what does that do to change the numbers between june and october for the president? >> it changes the narrative.

>> there comes a point, joe, where the numbers begin to matter more than the narrative. and so for the question -- the balance of the president is, to chris' point, 2.2 job -- >> gdp growth. >> the unemployment numbers are stagnant, yet they go down half a point, a point. the question becomes, when do those numbers overcome the narrative. >> right. >> chris, i think the president's biggest narrative is, as mark mckennon has said, the stimulus is dead, the bailout of detroit which bush would have done. i'm not making this a republican or democratic thing but right after that -- and the president will admit this himself. right after that he did cap and trade. right after that he did health care and before he really got his sea legs, he was already painted not just among the right but among the independents as a big government liberal. doesn't he have to do something over the next six months? >> well, this is the sad thing

about being president. you have fiscal policy. we're not going to run a bigger deficit. >> right. >> monetary policy can't get any more liberal. so what has the toolbox got left in it? >> simpson/bowles. >> long-term debt reduction. will that work to stimulate the short-term recovery? >> no, it won't. but it paints the republicans -- it paints the republicans, other than some other -- paul ryan and some others, it will paint the republicans as hip hypocrates and he will be against simpson/bowles. >> i think -- i think it would help the president. i know this. the president needs to change the dynamic and you can't do it by talking about --

>> there's one alternative. and that's a demand on congress to do something that he knows it won't do and take it up there and campaign for that through the debates. but i tell you what i'm going to do after watching the debates, 3 1/2 hour debates between president obama and mitt romney is going to be great television because we don't really know mitt romney. the moderate republicans are holding back. they haven't committed to this guy yet. if they come out and do it during the debates, he wins. >> can i ask you a question. this is just a gut question. is mitt romney a moderate? at heart. >> you said toolbox? >> yeah. >> he is a data miner. everybody tells me this. he's not ideological foreign policy. he's not on anything. le go to his staff and he will say, give me all the information i can get right now and i will make an analysis here and i will go with that. >> ceo. >> i think it's going to be that. it's an equity guy.

do i buy this company? how do i make a sale here eventually? the problem is, the toolbox, he's going to say what have i got in my tools here? well, you're going to cut taxes again he will cut taxes again, bet he cuts taxes for businesses. will that work? >> you agree with me -- he doesn't really have an ideology. he doesn't have a world view. he's -- it's the situation. >> we have one-track record. he was for health care, worked in massachusetts. he did it that way, it passed, everybody likes it up there. he's formally pro choice. he shifted when he started running for president. talking about incrementalist, he's an incrementalist. he's very practical. he believes in his family and his religion and outside of that, it's business. it's business.

>> i'm sure his record on taxes is very impressive, right? >> no. >> exactly. >> they say the president can control the unemployment rate, the president can control the debt rate. how much control does the president have? you know there's a business cycle. it's all over the world. it's the same pattern. it's everywhere. >> and the argument that we make -- >> and cutting things didn't work for merkel. >> and the argument that we make, this is not something that happened in the last 10 years or 30 years, we're part of a bigger cycle. >> business once that got us into trouble, deregulation. >> and one point -- >> deregulation. >> you say cutting costs and all of that doesn't work but

spending doesn't help either. we've got to find that balance going forward between those two pillars, spending and cutting costs. >> chris matthews -- >> did this rate? >> just fine. >> it was monsterous. >> your book is doing very, very well. good luck tomorrow night at howard university. congratulations. is it tomorrow? >> tomorrow morning. >> oh, my goodness. honorary degree. >> thank you. still ahead, we'll talk to the first man on the moon, astronaut, neil armstrong and mark kelly. plus, willy's week in review. but, first, bill karins forecast. >> i think i'll put a smile on your face when you hear about the mother's day forecast yourself. trouble yesterday in texas. a train was derailed, high school was hit. this morning, strong thunderstorms, beaumont, rolling into louisiana. watch out around baton rouge and later today around new orleans.

here's how the forecast is going to pan out. very heavy rainfall across texas in the next four hours. two to four inches is a lot of rain. east coast is great, west coast is great. i'm talking three days in a row for both ofhalves of our countr. louisiana, not the best of weekends down there. the rain goes into mississippi and alabama. and here's your mother's day forecast. if you have plans outdoors and want to treat mom outside, keep your plans iffy. down in tennessee, kentucky, alabama, that's where the worst of the wet weather will be. west coast looks very warm. 80s in seattle. who even know that you could hit 80 in seattle. gorgeous, clear morning in seattle. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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welcome back. founder and ceo, jim stire, author of "talking back to facebook." the guide of raising children in the internet age. does this come with it? this is fantastic. every part should have this check list for how to handle computers in the house. >> that's right. whether we like it or not, it's all changed for our kids in the last few years because of

facebook, cell phones, youtube, you name it. you have teens. it's how they communicate and act and everything. >> mika, talk about some of the numbers. >> so look at this. to set firm time limits, no screen time for tots under 2. unplug, you've got to have a family that has no media. >> like at meals, you shouldn't have your phone there. >> age appropriate platforms. go online and play games with your child so you know how they are communicating and you know how to do it and who they are talking to. >> you have kids that are older. you know that they are going to be doing this. >> that's how they talk. >> that's right. but then you talk to them about what the implications are, the pros and the cons. if your kid is sending naked picture of themselves to another 14-year-old -- >> and they have no filters. they didn't grow up without the

technological -- we learn filters through lots of different experiences. i wrote an article about this because i had some problems in my house with my kids on this. i brought in an expert. i was really -- but location, location, location. keep family computers and games all in a common room. >> how important it s ths that? >> that's huge. don't let that kid take the cell phone to bed. it interferes with their sleep. and their homework. >> you have to model your own behavior, too. right? you know the adage, do as i say and not as i do. if you're always tethered to your own device, you're not giving a good example. >> you are seeing more and more studies changing the way our children think. the way they process, every 14 seconds they are interrupted by a text message or an e-mail. >> right. >> what i do in my house, i let my daughter go on the computer

for 30 minutes. she's 8 years old but then i require her to read for 30 minutes. >> that's the right way to do it. it's very commonsense parenting but it's tougher now. simple rules make all the difference. the other thing i would tell you, the brains are changing. i teach. the kids don't write as well now. they actually can't pay attention. i have, you've got to close your laptops during my lecture rules. this is affecting cognitive and girls, social, emotional issues on facebook. kids are changing their body image, cure rating their photos. you're presenting your identity to kids who have anxiety. >> which leads us to number seven, teach your kid to self-reflect before they self-reveal. think before hitting send. >> you know, mark just said

that. it's so true. we all hear about cyber bullying and the big, bad stories that -- >> just too much information. >> too much information. but the thing about it is, the companies today are in a data arms race. they are making their money off of you and your kids giving them as much information as possible and then they are going to sell it back to a third-party marketer. they are being encouraged constantly by facebook, google plus, and other companies to reveal themselves. >> right. what do you like, what are your interests? >> and here's what your friend said and here's this and this. the thing is, your kids don't have the ability to filter all of that. that's what you said, mika. and the point is, you have to give them guidance but also digital literacy courses should be in every school in the united states. >> how does that play out when your 13-year-old is 18 going for their first job? >> you know, michael. there's been all of these laws in the last few months, we've been hearing about the ideas of

employers demanding your facebook password because they want to know what kind of person you are? we always ask for an eraser button and the technology says, we don't need to do that. there's going to be an ipo by one of the big companies, those guys could build an eraser button if they wanted to. >> why don't they want to? >> the business model is, you give up your personal information and we use it and we give it to marketers. so there's a very -- look, this is the engine that drives the economy. so we're not anti-media or anti-facebook and google. what we're saying is, you need a balance. >> how long have you been teaching at stanford? >> 20 plus years. >> i ask you that question because when i was in law school i always say, the thing that i learned the most from law school was going from one book, finding a little bit that took me to

another. >> process. >> to another book. >> i agree. >> to another book to another book and i'm in the library for four hours trying to get one answer but in those four hours i learned so much more about the law and that one sentence, today i see how my kids do term papers in college. it's google. they don't go through that process. >> that's true. >> i am so worried about how our kids are going to think and analyze in the next 30 years. >> but i'd say this. there is a pro and con here. >> right. >> arnie duncan and chairman of the s.e.c., around how technology can improve education. in some cases it can be really good. but if you look at how college students -- and they are honest about this. i ask my students about this as well. they can't concentrate. i ask about brain development and memory because it affects your short-term memory because you can't take all of that stimulus at once and keep

focusing. when you have to write a book like that, what do you do? close off the media and sort it out. you've got to focus. >> we've got to do that to our kids, too. >> you do. >> we have got to turn off the computer and say, read this. read that. >> that's right. >> bring a book to me that you want to read. one of the more exciting developments in my household, mark, is my 8-year-old girl now, we took her off the computer three, four months ago. we took her off the ipad, off of everything. you know what she did? she started reading and she now -- we now -- instead of having to tell her to put down her cell phone or -- she didn't have a cell phone. but to put down a video game. you know what we have to tell her to put down at dinner? ? put down the book. >> you have the right instincts. the problem is, people don't know what to do naturally or instinctively and as jim said, the world has changed. the great thing about this book is it tells you what to do for your kids.

it's a road rules instruction manual in the digital age. one of the things that it focuses on is we all have responsibility for this. society does, we do, legislative regulators, everybody does. this thing got so far out ahead of us and it's transforming our world in ways, changing your brain. we've got to take responsibility. >> can you get off facebook? >> you can. >> because i've been trying. >> one of the big things -- you know, people are getting off facebook. that was a a big controversy with instagram. so you can. but the big thing is, you want a balanced approach to all of this stuff. i think it's great when you're talking about your 8-year-old. i really mean that. because old-fashion parenting and commonsense stuff is the same. it's true for your teenagers and my teenagers, too. but you have to model the behavior. the other thing is, privacy matters.

when did we develop as a society that privacy was no longer a fundamental right? how can you have a serious relationship with your spouse or your kids where everything's public? i mean, that's ridiculous. but there are some engineers in silicon valley right now that think everything is about data and kids are data points to be collected and marketed and we need to have a conversation. the point of writing and talkinging back to facebook, we need to have a public conversation. it moved so quickly, changed so fast. you guys need to talk about it on "morning joe" a lot. >> well, we just did. >> talking back to facebook, jim steyer, thank you very much. "morning joe" is back in a moment. today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe?

let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. i've been crisscrossing the gulf i can tell you, down here,. people measure commitment by what's getting done. i'm mike utsler, and it's my job to make sure we keep making progress in the gulf. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. another fourteen billion dollars has been spent on response and cleanup. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to the gulf of mexico research initiative... to support ten years of independent scientific research on the environment. results will continue to be shared with the public. and we're making sure people know that the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now are two legends of space. from pensacola, florida, home of the new flight academy being commissioned today, astronauts jean and mark kelly, the commander of the second to last space shuttle mission. gentlemen, thanks to having you both on the show today. mark, we'd be remissed, first, without asking you how your wife gabby is doing.

>> she's doing really well. we were up in d.c. a few days ago. she's back doing her rehab. she's in a great mood and she's getting better. >> that's fantastic. >> it's an incredible story. >> gene? >> i just had a chance to meet gabby before the accident and i want to tell you, there is a dynamic, young woman and i tell you, if anyone can overcome this problem, she can. there's no question in my mind, you're going to see a lot of her in the future. >> no doubt about it. she will be back. it's a remarkable story. gene and mark, let's talk about why you're in my home town, pensacola, florida. it's a pretty remarkable museum you're sitting in right now, isn't it? >> well, the museum itself has been here. the naval af vags has been here quite a while. we put some of the real, heavy big artifacts, such as the

coronado sea plane that landed in tokyo bay during the surrender. but where we are now is a combination -- not the beginning but a dream. this is going to be one of the greatest evidence indication nal programs that the country has ever seen. >> and, mark, why is that? why exactly are you guys supporting this morning? >> well, i think it's certainly because we've got a crisis in education in this country. you know, when gene walked on the moon in 1972, we led the world on any metric of education. but today, you know, we're not often in the top ten. we've got to fix this problem and the people devoted to, you know, this organization is a first step to get kids more interested in science, technology, engineering, and math. and i'm really impressed with this facility. >> you know, you just can't lay something in front of a kid and say, learn it. you've got to have a desire. you need a hook and we in

aviation, particularly naval aviation, because that's where the dream started back here some 20 years ago and 40-plus million dollars of funding and the goal is not to make aviators out of every young boy and girl but to aspire them to dream about things that they didn't believe they were capable of doing they are future doctors, engineers. there's teachers that will hopefully come out of here. young kids inspired to do something they didn't know they could do. they are going to be here. they are going to be learning and having fun at the same time. >> all right. gentlemen, gene and mark kelly, thank you so much. congratulations. the academy is called am big. we appreciate you being on the show this morning. all the best to you. >> thank you so much. up next, "business before the bell."

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sfloo today's front page of the new york times reads, as growth slows, doubts on china's state driven model. >> what a shock. economists are calling for the chinese government to give up control over their system to begin encouraging more competition and strengthen the economy. brian sullivan is with us right now for a check on business before the bell. brian, who would ever believe and if a poor country spent hundreds of billions of dollars on infrastructure that was not supported by an underlying economy that it would create a bubble that one day would burst. we never saw this coming.

>> i know you're sarcasm. it's appreciated on a friday morning. listen, while china is growing rapidly, china's average income is still about $4,000 u.s. a year. there are still 100 million people who live on less than 5 u.s. dollars a year. >> how many people? >> under what -- the average income is 4,000. you have about 100 million people living under 500 u.s. dollars a year. >> underline that. 100 million people in china live on less than $500 a year. >> some stats have it as low as $100 u.s. a year but i didn't want to go under it. i figured i'd estimate higher to make it sound better than it is. listen, i was just in hong kong a month ago. you know, when you look at the rest of the country, they have a

massive pollution problem. go to any live shot in the middle of the afternoon, you can barely see -- china is where we were 75 years ago. it's easy to sort of get from the $1,000 a year to $3,000 a year to $5,000 a year income range. the hardest part is to make that big jump from really developing to ultra develop. high-speed rail and massive dams and huge highways. the airport is spectacular. we can learn from that. but at the same time, where is the money coming from they export a lot of stuff but how much money are they making on the stuff that they are exporting? the biggest bank bought a u.s.-based bank yesterday. just got approval this is the first time that this happened. they are growing but there is a risk here.

a collapse along with a europe collapse is not good news for america either, is it? >> i can debate that, you know. i've been arguing for a while that the rest of the world's problems are good for us. for example, in hong kong i met a guy that run ares a real estate development company, takes foreign capital and invests it in southeast asia. all of the capital wants to come here now because he can't find people that want to invest in southeast asia. europe we're starting to see more action here. i think there's going to be more of a decoupling than people think. this can could be good for us. we'll wait and see. if i'm wrong, i'll walk across america in a toga. >> well, we surely don't want to see that, brian. >> nobody does. nobody does. >> okay. >> the funny thing is, as many problems as the united states of america has right now, the dollar is looking like the safest long-term bet on the planet. >> we need to go, guys.

>> that's it for tech. >> see you next week. >> thank you so much, brian. i'm walt gale,

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good friday morning. >> he's got over 40% of the vote in west virginia. >> president obama won west

virginia's primary but only within 20 points. >> 40% went to runner up keith judd. >> at number three, keith judd. >> judd declares himself a member of federation of superheroes and lists his religion of christian. >> at the federal prison he's inmate number 11593-051. he burst out on to the election scene in west virginia. all the more impressive when you consider he campaigned from the same 6 by 8 cell where he makes toilet. >> that is [ bleep ] up. >> judd got on the ballot by filling out some forms and gathering up 120 bucks doing god knows what in that federal lock-up. some of the vote was simply protest against the president. but the vast majority was an

endorsement of judd's running mate, a fluffy draped side ponytail. >> please tell me the guy that has 40% of the vote is wearing a cap or is being attacked by a ferrett. >> oh, boy. >> at number two, power play. slard mir putin celebrated his reclamation of the russian presidency not with an inaugural ball but by forcing people to play hockey with him on national television. the russian president with an affinity of horseback riding and forced a young goalie to make the decision between letting putin score on a penalty shot and ever seeing his family again. a wise choice. the only thing that could make this story any better at all would be a random cut away of

italy's former prime minister in the stand cheering on putin. and the number one story of the week -- >> it's raining mad. >> president obama this week completed a long, personal evolution, announcing publicly his support for gay marriage. >> i think same-sex couples should be able to get married. >> the president's declaration was expedited when the vice president weighed in, perhaps off script, on sunday's "meet the press". >> i am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women -- >> he probably got out a little bit over his skis. >> mitt romney did not seem all that up for talking social issues. >> aren't there issues of significance that you'd like to talk about? the economy. >> this is a significant issue in colorado. >> the economy. >> no, romney was more interested in challenging the president on the issue of outdoor water sports. >> i don't think i'll play the president a round of golf but

i'd be happy to take him around a water ski course. >> the president's change of heart on gay marriage, the obvious next question is, will that position hurt him come november with the all-important keith judd wing of the party. >> i'm just waiting for that water skiing competition between mitt romney and the president. coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? we're here at the famous golden ox steakhouse in kansas city where we switched their steaks with walmart's choice premium steak. ♪ this is really good. like what i grew up with. only one out of five steaks is good enough to be called walmart choice premium beef. can i let you in on a secret? you're eating a walmart steak. no kidding. noooo! i promise. it's very tender. you could almost cut it with a fork. it is delicious! we need to start buying those at walmart. walmart usda choice premium steaks. try it. tell us what you think about it on facebook. it's 100% guaranteed.

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welcome back to "morning joe." now it's time to talk about what we learned. >> i learned that it's a great morning to join john meacham debating the subjects of the day. >> john, what did you learn? >> that willy was learned to find out from the facebook guy that you're not supposed to send naked pictures of yourself. >> that is a shock. what did you learn, mr. scarf, mark? >> that there's some rogue rules for your kids about how to use social media. >> that is great. by the way, that is an impressive scarf this morning. i like it. what did you learn today? >> joe scarborough would give him a run for his money. run for his money. >> there you go.