to tape "the view." this is very much a piece that was and taking a large gender gap and trying to make it bigger. >> dana from good evening, americans welcome to "the ed show" from new york. there's a national battle for progressive values going on right in the middle of the country right now. what are the national democrats going to join the fight. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole

truth and nothing but the truth? >> yes. >> scott walker's divide and conquer bombshell is causing major problems. >> you've never had such a conversation? >> no. >> "the washington post" reports national democrats aren't helping the state party in wisconsin. mike tate is here to tell his side of the story. bain capital walked away with a lot of money that they made off this plant. we view mitt romney as a job destroyer. the victims of vulture capitalism are speaking out. jpmorgan $2 billion mistake proves republicans just don't get it. >> you think we need less financial regulation rather than more? >> i think we need less. >> bart shelton on the regulation we need to stop another disaster. good to have you with us. thanks for watching. a new video of scott walker with a billionaire donor about his

plan to divide and conquer labor might land him in hot water with the united states congress. the video of walker talking with billionaire diane hendricks in january of 2011 surfaced in a documentary late last week. take a look. >> any chance we'll get to be a completely red state and work on these unions and become a right to work? what can we do to help you? >> we're going to start in a couple of weeks with our budget adjustment bill. the first step is deal with collective bargaining for all public employees. use divide and conquer. >> it's a damning look inside the governor's ahead and agenda less than one month before he staged an all-out assault in wisconsin. at the time he lied about his reasons for gutting the public sector. his biggest lie happened during congressional testimony in april of 2011. >> have you ever had a

conversation with respect to your actions in wisconsin in using them to punish members of the opposition party and their donor base? >> no. >> you've never had such a conversation? >> no. >> let's go back and take another look at what the he told a billionaire donor three months earlier. >> the first step is we're going to deal with collective bargaining for all public employee unions. use divide and conquer. >> it's so interesting. he used divide and conquer strategy to punish unions and anyone that stood in his way. congress, you ought to haul this guy back. he's got plenty of attorneys. he's got help. ask him the question again. his defense team might help him out on this one and bring him along a little bit. this is part of the reason why this is the most important election in america. the wisconsin recall election

will have a major impact on every race in america for generations to come. the june 5th recall election is the first real first test case of citizens united versus boots on the ground. scott walker has been all over conservative media begging for money. he's already raked in more than $25 million to smear his opponents and pump up his weak record of job creation. walker raised 12 times more money than all four democrats who competed against one another in the primaries. tom barrett and the democrats are going to need all hands on deck if they're going to pull this off and see walker go down the trail. that's why this headline, i'm scratching my head when i saw this. greg sergeant points out the wisconsin democratic party has asked the dnc for $500,000 to help out with their field operation. so far the dnc has declined. i have a question for my friends at the dnc, what are you waiting for? democrats have less than 22 days to get boots on the ground and get organized again, get people registered and get them out to

the polls. there's no time to waste. when howard dean ran the dnc he had a 50 state strategy to help get nancy pelosi the speaker's gaffel -- gavel and helped president bush gets nine states. financially, it's all about writing the check. walker has the support of who, the republican governor's association, americans for prosperity, the koch brothers, sheldon adelson and all the free time he can gin up. why is that? because they want him to win. they're in it to win. the conservatives and the righties understand what wisconsin means. this is where it all started. 16 months ago it went from protests to petitions to nine recall elections and the democrats won five. now we're down to the big one. this is the big one.

can you believe it? the dnc is getting writers cramp when it comes to writing a check for $500,000? you ever been in business? gosh, i hate writing this check but i got to do it. dnc, you got to write it even if it pains you. this has national implications as to what can happen to this country. if we don't take stand against citizens united, if we don't give the people hope, if we don't give them the confidence that you can win, what does it say? is there any other bigger election that's going to happen between now and june 5th? i don't think so. this has been on the radar screen for 16 months. the righties are all in but the dnc is i don't know about the 500 grand. end this story tonight. pick up the phone, you folks at the dnc. i won't name names because i'm not looking to pick a fight.

i'm here to motivate and help people understand what this means. if walker wins, if his agenda is allowed to prevail and the 14 senators that left the state to draw attention to what was a radical plan, if they lose this battle, this is going to underscore every other republican governor in this country saying well, see that. the people may be protesting and saying one thing but this is what we have to do if we're going to get our budget in order. i'm asking at heads across america, you know what to do. the dnc needs to step up and get it done for a candidate who will do a hell of a lot better job than scott walker. tom barrett, he's not the media dorlg when it comes to the media in this country, but he is the guy who is going to be much more level headed and restore the education cuts that have taken place in this state and also will do a better job of job

creation. i do think that the congress needs to call scott walker back and play those two sound bites, but it probably won't happen because you see darrell isa calls the shots. if you've been seeing what he says about joe biden and president obama, i think you know how he plays. he plays to win. democrats, put it on the calendar. this is one question not lose. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. do national democrats need to do more to help recall scott walker? text a for yes. text b for no. you can go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll bring you results later in the show. joining me is a gentleman in a tough spot, mike tate. he's the chairman of the wisconsin democratic party. i know him. he's a good guy. he works hard and he needs the cash. the folks have asked the dnc to step up. right now it seems like

financially they are on an island. good to have you with us. what's happening with this story? how true is it? is it 500 grand? what do you need to make this thing happen? >> thanks for having me on. we've been working with folks like the dnc and the dga from the beginning on this race. i think everyone is clear this is a priority. i believe this is the most important election in america right now and will be the most important thing before we re-elect the president in november. the dnc has been helping us mobilize their volunteers and will be very active here. the democratic governor association has been spent millions of dollars here on television. we are continuing to work in partnership with our friends at the dnc and are hopeful it will continue that strong partnership and make a good financial investment. >> is this story accurate? so far they have not written the check that you've asked for. >> we're still talking about that. ed, i'm a little reluctant to talk about specific numbers for

campaign strategy publicly. we're working with them on a regular basis. i think they know this is an incredibly important bellwether election that if we're able to defeat scott walker here in wisconsin, it's going to make it a lot easier for barack obama to win 270 votes in november. >> if you've asked for $500,000 and the dnc doesn't deliver, what does that tell other progressives around the country? you're on your own and have to take care of your own backyard. that's not how the conservatives and the koch brothers are operating. there's outside interests playing to win right now. can barrett win without the help of the national party? >> we need all the help we can get. we've had hundreds of thousands of people give 5, 10 and $20. this really is how we fight back against the powerful and the elite. in a post-citizens united era. we would love to have the help of the dnc. it will continue to add to the

help they are providing us. >> it's about the money, mike. it's all about the money. you know it. i know it. everybody knows it. that's why millions of dollars have flowed in to support scott walker. the bottom line is the dnc can't step up to the plate and not get the writers cramp and write the check, it's all for naught, isn't it? >> we need all the help we can get. it's tough watching tv knowing we're getting beat 20 to 1 in television spending. this is an election where we see the electorate is ready to fire scott walker. we need to make sure we're ready to get our voters out to the polls. we're working pretty hard. >> there's a poll out there from some group called we ask america. it gives walker a nine-point lead.

should we trust these numbers? who is we ask america? i want our audience to understand with so much money floating around it's easy to get a few jokesters to play with the telephone and say look what we've got. who is this group? >> earlier today it's reported it's the illinois association of manufacturers. one would wonder why the illinois association of manufacturers has a strong interest in our governor's race. for whatever reason they do. they decided to do a poll. it's a robopoll. i don't think it's an accurate reflection of what we're seeing internally and what was released about a week ago. this is a very competitive race. we are neck and neck in the polls. if we can get our voters to show up, we'll send a message that you can't mess with working people. >> that's what it's all about is who gets out the vote. that's what this is all about. who will get out the vote to get the deal done. did scott walker lie to congress? the videotape is right there. you saw his testimony in congress. you saw the videotape that came off the documentary when he was talking to that billionaire.

how can you key -- deny the fact. he lied to congress, did he not? >> i think it would be pretty hard to think he didn't. i think it would be pretty hard a guy as manipulative and calculating as scott walker didn't have a conversation about the devastating effect it would have for working people to have a voice in the workplace and in government. i think that's clearly why he did it. you've done a lot of reporting. they're trying to take apart any semblance of a voice that average working people have by going after labor. >> i hope the dnc does what they have to do. this is important for the country. it's important for the obama administration. mike, great to have you with us. keep up the fight. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. we want to know what you think. president obama spoke out about the jpmorgan mess. we'll tell you what he said about the $2 billion risky bet. california governor, jerry brown wants to avoid massive

cuts to education and public safety. the republicans are standing in his way. congressman joins me later.

coming up, the human costs of rom mi's vulture capitalism. republicans are claim being the jpmorgan disaster was caused by too much regulation? we will correct the record on this show this evening. governors like chris christie are playing politics with people's lives when it comes to implements obama care. wendell potter is ahead on the latest republican obstruction. share your thoughts on twitter. we're coming right back. right where you need it. then rinse. in ten minutes zap those grays and get on with your day. nice 'n easy root touch-up.

that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. welcome back. president obama is going after mitt romney where it counts. romney claims to be the job creator, so here is the obama campaign's ad about romney's

experience at bain capital. >> they made as much money off of it as they could. they closed it down. they filed for bankruptcy without any concerns for the families of the community. >> like a vampire. they came in and sucked the life out of us. >> it was like watching an old friend bleed to death. >> as i look around at the millions of americans without work it breaks my heart. >> he's running for president. if he's going to run the country the way he ran our business, i wouldn't want him there. he's so out of touch with the average person in this country, how could you care. how could you care for the average working person if you feel that way. >> it tells the story of gst steel. the steel company was loaded up with debt and sent into bankruptcy. its workers lost their jobs and their pensions were devastated. the romney campaign countered and said how it was a big

success under bain capital. steel dynamics got plenty of subsidies and tax breaks. this is mitt romney's second time around trying to defend his private sector jobs record thanks to newt gingrich's old super pac. >> this film is about one such raider and this firm. mitt romney became ceo of bain capital the day the company was formed. his mission to reek massive rewards for himself and investors. >> they don't care who i am. >> he's for small businesses. no, he isn't. >> let's turn to dave foster. a former union representative for laid off workers at gst steel. mr. foster, good to have you with us. you were there. tell us what happened to gst steel under romney's bain capital. how did it unfold? >> thanks for having me. i appreciate the opportunity to tell what happened to the steel workers at gst steel in kansas city. this was a game of heads i win,

tails you lose. when bain capital went in in 1993, put very little of their own money down. borrowed the rest to buy the gst steel plant. they turned around and paid themselves back their own investment with borrowed money and proceeded over a course of years to lever the company up with unsustainable amounts of debts so that by the end of the 1990s the company had $500 million in debt. it couldn't survive. it was an example of terrible management on the part of the business. >> when mitt romney is out on the campaign trail and he says it breaks his heart when he sees these unemployed people, you have a different opinion of that? >> i have a completely different opinion. i was the person that went down in the union hall and stood with hundreds of steel workers with steel worker retirees and spouses in their 70s and 80s. i was the one to tell them the

company was in bankruptcy and their retiree health insurance, $100 million of it was was gone. their pensions were being reduced. i heard stories of how kids were dropping out of college and pensioners didn't know if they could get operations or leave money to their widow. there was no one from bain around. >> bain walked with the cash? they underfunded pensions. they changed benefits. they made it so the company would go bankrupt. they took theirs and left you guys hanging. >> that's exactly right. when bain bought gst steel, they bought it for cash and obligations. among those obligations was $100 million in retirement benefits. it was owed to hundreds of gst steel workers and hundreds who retired before them. romney walked in knowing he obligated to pay that money, but when the going got tough, he walked away and took his own quick profits up front and left the steel workers behind.

cratered their jobs, cratered their community. >> you know the rest of the story. president obama's former economic advisor on the automobile industry said that obama's bain ad was unfair because it wasn't bain's mission to create jobs. that really is the point isn't it? what's your response to that? >> that really gets under my skin, ed. the fact is you judge a businessman by the values and record of the businesses that they own and run. the case of gst steel was one of an extremely poorly managed business. it was one in which smart people in the steel industry know it's a cyclical business. they know you don't lever up a company like that with debt so in the hard times you can't pay your bills. that's exactly what mitt romney did. it was bad management and a story of bad values. >> david foster, thanks for your story tonight. we'll do it again. thank you.

appreciate it. up next, what president obama had to say about the nation's biggest bank making a huge $2 billion bet that failed miserably. will the democrats back marco rubio's version of the dream act? not if it doesn't include a path to citizenship. stay tuned. [ male announcer ] if you think tylenol is the pain reliever orthopedic doctors recommend most for arthritis pain, think again. and take aleve. it's the one doctors recommend most for arthritis pain.

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another bank debacle. today president obama addressed

the $2 billion loss the biggest bank suffered because of a risky bet gone bad. >> jpmorgan is one of the best managed banks there is. jaime dimon, the head of it is one of smartest bankers we got, and they still lost $2 billion and counting precisely because they were making bets in these derivative markets. we don't know all the details yet. it's going to be investigated. this is why we passed wall street reform. this is one of the best managed banks. you could have a bank that isn't as strong, isn't as profitable making those same bets and we might have had to step in. that's why wall street reform is so important. >> the chief investment officer

resigned but jamie dimon is still in damage control. >> the strategy we had was badly vetted. it was badly monitored it should never have happened. >> why aren't heads rolling? there's nothing to stop them going right back down the same road and doing this all over again tomorrow because it's perfectly legal. it's further proof that dodd-frank didn't go far enough. when rnc chairman reince priebus was asked if we needed more regulation or less, here's what he said. >> i think we need less. dodd-frank didn't work. >> always less. no dodd-frank didn't go far enough. let's turn to bart. good to have you with us. let's cut right to the chase. you have got the biggest banks doing whatever they want to do and until we break them up, it's going to be business as usual. the climate in washington is there's not going to be anymore

regulation put on wall street. what do you think? >> in general, i think as regulators we were are sort of chumps. we keep thinking the banks are going to do what's expected but we know what they will do is what's inspected. that's why we need to put the meat on the bones of dodd-frank. they passed the law two years ago, but we still, two-thirds of the regulations aren't even in place. the things that jpmorgan was doing, as you say, they were totally legal, but regulators didn't have a view of what it was. that needs to change. >> what can the cftc do, if anything, about this? i think it's very little. am i correct there? >> they have done nothing illegal. all regulators will take a look at losses. it's free enterprise. they can lose money. the thing is that sometimes these things can

impact consumers and these very large banks can have a residual impact on the rest of the economy. before dodd-frank we had hundreds of trillions of dollars in trading in these over-the-counter markets. i call them dark markets as we talked about before. that was totally off of our radar. dodd-frank put that onto our radar, but we haven't put the rules in place to get the reports from the bank, to look at these things, ed. we need to put the hammer down, put the regulations in place to protect markets and consumers. by the way, i think it's exactly the opposite of what the chairman said, the rnc chairman said. i think the dodd-frank law can help create jobs. it's putting all sorts of space in between the regulation where there's a tremendous amount of competition. i see it happening all the time. we have to get the rules into place. one to protect people and fuel

inject the economic engine of our democracy. >> jamie dimon, this is a guy who led the fight against any sort of regulation whatsoever and now he's saying we were just a little bit sloppy, that's all. here is jaime dimon. >> we support too big to fail. we want the government to take down a big bank like jpmorgan, which can be done. we think dodd-frank was given the authority to take down a big bank. the board should be fired. the equity should be wiped out. the name should be buried in disgrace. >> whatever happened to boring banking? they were separated. back in the time it was boring beaning, we had glass-stegall,

we wouldn't have to worry about this kind of thing. he talks a good game. when asked about this risky bet a few weeks ago, he said it was just a tempest in a teapot. he's going to say until he gets caught and something happens and then he says, we really did some bad stuff here. one person's let go. bernie sanders has been on this for a long time. he said today the new york fed is in charge of both regulating jpmorgan chase and deciding whether or not to provide billions of dollars in virtually zero interest loans in this too big to fail institution if it needs another bail out. this is a clear example of fox guarding the hen house. amen. i don't know how these problems are going to be solved unless they are broken up. it going to take congress and guess what, the banks own the senate. your response, mr. chilton? >> there are ten lobbyist, final

lobbyist for every single member of congress. they have a big, heavy influence. it's the consumers who don't have the big influence. the one thing that dodd-frank did, it did a bunch of things that were very good, but the one thing they argued against was this volcker rule. it would go back pre- glass-steagall. if you're a bank, you're a bank and you look out for your customers. we did away with the law. there's a troublesome duplexity in the banking industry. we know who will always win out. we have seen it. goldman sachs and citibank set up these fake out funds. they set up funds, they pushed their customers into it and then the banks got back into it. they have been fined. people are getting in trouble for it. back to what i said at the beginning. we can't just expect the banks are going to do something.

they need to be inspected to ensure they are upholding the law and protecting markets and consumers alike. >> betting against house money where you know where all the cash is. it's amazing. bart chilton, thanks for being with us tonight. there's a lot more coming up. stay with us. we can't fill a hole this magnitude with cuts alone. >> the republican wrecking crew wants to claim another victim in california. the governor is fighting back. california congressman is here with reaction. president obama's health care law is under attack in republican state houses around the country. tonight, wendell potter on how to stop the assault. senator marco rubio wants everyone to go along with his dream act. tonight, democrats are calling him out.

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this story is happening all over the country, but right now it's in california. the world's eighth largest economy is in big trouble. california faces deep cuts in education. where have you heard that before? public safety, public services due too a massive budget gap. the state estimated a $9.2 billion budget shortfall in january. this weekend it was revealed it's going to be $16 billion gap. tax collections were not as high as expected in april. jerry brown wanted to extend the tax revenue levels from the schwarzenegger administration but republicans blocked his efforts to put tax revenue on the ballot. the california legislature is at a stand still. so brown took his pitch to the voters. >> we can't fill a hole of this magnitude with cuts alone without doing severe damage to our schools. i'm bypassing the gridlock and asking you, the people of

california, to approve a plan that avoids cuts to schools and public safety. >> what the governor of california wants to do is raise the state sales tax by a quarter of a percent for four years. he wants 1 to 3% increase on income tax for those earning $250,000 a year. the rate increase would last seven years. then it would sunset. without the tax revenue, the school year will be cut by three weeks. college tuition rates would go up 6% and funding for courts, that would be cut. there are also unspecified cuts to social welfare programs. republicans in washington have run huge deficits on the unpaid wars, iraq and afghanistan that were off budget, the tax cuts of

the bush years. nobody added up on how that would affect the treasury and the hand outs in the pharmaceutical industry. there's no federal money to invest in the states. we are gutting our infrastructure. it's happening in wisconsin and pennsylvania and other states. all where these republican governors have been elected and hanging out. governor brown has a plan to avoid cutting vital services, but it requires everyone to share the pain. he's at the table with the solution. now it's up to the people. joining me tonight is congressman john garamendi of california. this is playing out all over the country. the governors are making the ruthless cuts or turning to the people. what's going to happen? >> california is going to come back. california will do what it has to do to get back on track. education is fundamental. it's the messed -- most

fundamental investment. a bunch of investors are building new companies. they are looking for opportunities. they want people to work in their shops and businesses. the governor is correct. we need a balanced approach. you cannot do it with cuts. you're going to have to raise tax revenue. his plan is out there. it's the plan we'll have to pursue. >> do you think the people of california will go down this road with a quarter percent sales tax. if you make over $250,000 a year it will be 3% with a sunset on it. >> the 3% comes if you're over a million adjusted gross income per person. for a family it's much higher. the point is we have to do this. we have to move this state forward. that means you have to make these investments and the fundamental ingredients of economic growth. education, infrastructure, research, manufacturing. that's where you generate the wealth. that's how you generate the future. >> i know you want to be

positive and you are. you're a positive guy. i've known you for a while and you're business friendly. 32,000 teachers in your state have been let go in the last year. >> that's correct. >> we are in the middle of making decisions with our priority list in america right now, and every state is going through this. you can't tell me that all 32,000 teachers were lousy. >> they were very good teachers. my daughter's class went from 22 to 35. you tell me how a teacher in the second grade is supposed to get the kind of performance out of those kids. very serious mistake being made. the governor has come forward with a proposal that would add about $6 billion to the k through 12 system. you have to change the system also. you have to change and reform otherwise you'll get stuck in the mud. california can do it. the nation can do it. but you've got to make the critical investments. you can't do what the

republicans are doing in congress with their austerity budget on steroids while giving tax breaks to the companies and letting the oil companies have our money. we need public policy. >> we're getting our infrastructure because of the bush tax cuts and unfunded wars. we're borrowing money from china like crazy. we're making decisions to cut education and put it on the backs. they say they are worried about the deficit because it's going to affect the next generation. they are affecting the next generation by shortchanging the infrastructure and their opportunity. >> they say we got to protect the next generations. what about these kids that are in school today. you're taking about their ability to perform and be productive tomorrow. not the next generation but this generation. they need the health care. they need the food. school lunch programs are being cut. meals on wheels for seniors. this is not the america we have. we need to invest in those

things. in our kids, in infrastructure, in the manufacturing, in research. you tell me one company out there anywhere that's going to succeed by shortchanging its investments in research and manufacturing, that company will fail. a country that fails to make those investments will also fail. we cannot let that happen. >> governor brown is doing the right thing and asking the right questions? >> he's putting it to the american people. we've got to make the investments. >> great to have you with us. senator marco rubio claims he has big reforms to immigration reform but none of them include path to citizenship. we're right back. se who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories.

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congress is sabotaging him. and republicans' all-out attack on the health care law and what it means for millions of americans. you can listen to my radio show monday through friday. follow me on twitter @edshow. lots more coming up. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. [ man ] when i went to get my first new car, my dad said to get a subaru because they last. ♪

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mitt romney believes the key to immigration reform is self-deportation. now the man hoping to be romney's running mate is accusing the white house of sabotaging his reform efforts. the dream act offers children brought to the united states illegally by their parents a pathway to citizenship if they go to college and serve in the military. the legislation died in the senate two years ago and surprise, republicans are still unwilling to cooperate. president obama wants congress to act now. >> he's ready and willing to sign a dream act, immigration

reform act, if we can have cooperation on the other side of the aisle. i don't hear any members except for maybe senator rubio coming forward talking for a proposal that's half cooked. >> that half cooked proposal doesn't offer a path to citizenship. it offers nonimmigrant visas. even though he's yet to put his idea on paper, he's accusing the white house of trying to sabotage him. >> one of the things that's already been documented is the white house and articles have been written, the white house has been calling in dream act advocates and asking them, almost ordering them not to work with me on this issue because they have been counting on using this issue as a wedge issue in october to drive up turn out. >> he offered no specifics to back up his allegations. rubio is desperately trying to raise his profile.

he knows his party won't go for immigration reform. the next test, next best thing is to offer up a watered down plan and blame the democrats for its failure. majority leader harry reid said he would be happy to work with rubio. >> i'm glad that marco's doing something. i think that's significant, but the problem is right now there's not many single word put on paper, not a word. and remember in anything we do in life, the devil is in the details. let's stop this nonsense of talking about it. he talks to one group this way, another group another way. put it in writing. >> 90% of the latino voters support the democrats' version of the dream act. this could have a big impact on millions of lives. all senator reid needs is a few republicans to step up to the plate and be on the right side of history. >> i've got 90% of my democrats. i need a handful of republicans to work with me on this. i've spoken to the dreamers. they do not want another failure. they do not want another failure.

that's why i'm begging republicans, come forward on this. it's the fair thing to do. >> senator rubio put it on paper, dude. tonight in our survey i asked you, do national democrats need to do more to help recall governor scott walker? 97% said yes. 3% said no. next up, chris christie is one of many governors, just the latest republican governor to stall on implementing the health care bill that was passed by congress. the one they love to call obama care. what can be done? wendell potter will join me next.

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of our u.s. olympic team. and in the big finish tonight. the gop is waging a full-on assault on health care in this country. at the federal level republicans in congress are trying to defund it, and at the state level republican governor and legislators are dragging their feet on implementing it. governor chris christie is the latest republican governor joining the club. christie recently vetoed a bill from the democratic state legislature that would have created a state health insurance exchange. the exchanges are a key part of the health care law because they expand access, expand access to health insurance, which is a good thing. the health care law will provide millions unable to get coverage through an employer with federal subsidies to buy a plan through the exchange. it's going to get more people covered. christie says he won't act until the supreme court makes a

decision. it's not just states with a republican governor that are in trouble. as the "washington post" reports, in states with democratic governors such as new hampshire and minnesota, it's republican dominated legislatures that are causing the holdup. in six states, state assemblies haven't even considered laws to establish the marketplaces. millions of americans are waiting to be helped by this bill that we spent so much time on as a country and republican lawmakers are playing political games and hurting a lot of people. in the meantime, how many people will go in debt because of medical bills? how many people will go bankrupt because of it? republicans are literally playing politics with people's lives and it is mean spirited to say the least. let's turn to wendell potter who is the center for public integrity. a former communications director and vice president of cigna and the author of the book "deadly spin."

this is obstruction at all levels. mr. potter, great to have you with us tonight. >> thank you, ed. >> it's mean-spirited. this is an all-out assault to stop anything president obama was able to accomplish. how else do we read it? >> there's no other way to read it. the exchanges are a no brainer. as you pointed out they expand coverage. they also enable the citizens of every state to be able to shop for coverage and compare policies one to another. you can't do that now. this was a great idea when republican governors had it before the affordable care act was passed. there's an exchange in utah. when mitt romney was governor of massachusetts, he created an exchange there. it's been very successful in both states. they have different approaches, but what we're seeing now is nothing but politics. they're wanting to make sure they can keep this going as political rhetoric as long as they can. >> they're using obviously the supreme court to hide behind them. how often does it take to set up

a good exchange to be implemented? i mean, if they -- if you get a favorable ruling, if the country gets a favorable ruling on the health care bill from the supreme court, they would have maybe 5 1/2, 6 months to set this up, would they? >> they wouldn't and it's not enough time. the affordable care act requires states to be able to show by the first of january next year that they have taken enough steps to get their exchanges up and running. if they haven't, the federal government will step in and run them for those states. that undoubtedly will probably happen in a lot of states. >> which will cost a lot of money, isn't it? more money than the states have did it. >> you'll have people far removed from the states calling the shots. it's not necessarily at all a good thing for the residents of the states but these politicians are not thinking and acting in the best interest of the citizens. >> one of the reasons why the republicans really don't want this is because they're so afraid this is going to end up being the public option, are

they not? >> that's one thing. like you said, it's more fundamental than that. they want to use it as a campaign issue. they've done such a successful job of criticizing the affordable care act and misleading people about it, this gives them another campaign issue for a while. >> workers that work for a company that don't have health care benefits, this is their chance through a state exchange to get coverage, get a better outcome and in the long haul it will bring down expenses for the nation. that's real will tly the model exchange was all about. >> that's right. many people can't get coverage through their employer because employer doesn't cover it. more and more small businesses simply cannot afford to offer coverage. this would enable more small businesses to be able to get back into the business of, or into the game of offering coverage to their employees. >> in the meantime, it is depriving millions of