>> thank, dylan. >> mel ber's minute. but i think those are four or five minutes. which i think are good ones. we have to reflaname the segmen. well see ari later. thank you for invefrting your time with us. i'm dylan ratigan and "hardball" with chris matthews is up now. >> even destruction, lets play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, sabotage. they did it last summer blowing up the debt talks exploding the country's credit rating. here they come again for an election year replay. why not? if you kill the recovery you kill obama's reelection clanses. go boehner, go tea party. another example of how republicans have become an protest party with no action for

our country. mitt romney staffed stopped reporters from asking him questions today. what is is he afraid of? why won't he answer questions about the jobs killed by bain capital? plus the defense rests on an edward case and never calls edwards or his girlfriend, hundred hunter, to the stand. how about outside money changing senate election in nebraska and pushing candidate back by sarah palin way over the top at the last minute. is that more of dirty angry money we've been talking about? finally let me fin wish strange thoughts rather about a strange election getting under way. this is going to be a strange up with. we know obama but who is this other guy? we begin with a sequel to this year's infamous debt showdown. the inside look at what happened last time when obama fought back against boehner, caine and the

tea party. look at this. here is speaker boehner. he is trying to sound like one of them. listen to this spaesh yesterday demanding cuts. tea party style. >> yes, allowing america to default on its debt would be irresponsible. but it would be more irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling without taking dramatic steps to reduce spending and reform the budget process. >> when the time comes, i will again insist that my simple principle of cuts and reforms greater than the debt limit increase. this is the only avenue i see right now to force the elected leadership of this country to solve our structural fiscal imbalance. >> it sounds sophisticated but listen to this. this morning boehner said he wasn't callinging for debalt but went on to question the president's motives. let's listen to boehner again this morning. >> i am not threatening default. where is the president's plan in to tackle our looming debt crisis?

where's the president's plan? to stop the large et tax increase in american history from occurring on january 1st? the president and i, as you well know, we get along fine. but he has issues with what i believe in and frankly i've had issues about what he believes in. >> i'm not threatening default. mr. israel, thank you for coming on. i want insight here. looks toe me like boehner is threatening just that. he is not going to let the debt ceiling be increased or let the government continue to function. the tea parties will dance with delight but the american people once again may see their credit rating drop, saip s&p will go down, president will suffer but more importantly the country will suffer. >> chris, this is like a bad summer rerun. they did this last summer. their play book was partisan obstruction versus progress. millionaires over medicare. protecting millionaires, but

saying we have plenty of no one give millionaires tax cut but not enough to give seniors medicare. continuing to obstruct any progress in our economy. these tea party republicans care about one thing and they the once again bring the economy to the brink of default in order to try and experience partisan gain. they have to stop the partisanship and obstructionism and learn how to compromise. we supported cuts, $2 tril yn in cuts. they walk away from that because we also said that oil companies should do more as well. >> you know, i've got here david, an expert that wrote about this last summer, here they are a couple days ago. republicans passing what they call their fix-it thing. protect the department against any cuts. that's the deal last year after this whole mismash occurred. just cut medicaid and food stamps. guess who they are cutting? medicaid for poor people and

food stamps for poor people and have taxes for the rich. >> and perhaps even more important, they're not sticking with the deal they accepted a year ago. >> which was adding cuts. >> john boehner tried to cut a deal with the president. i write about this in "showdown", that would have shared sacrifice in revenues and he couldn't do it because of the tea party wing of his party. so they cut a smaller deal they all agree to. they have cuts and the defense department and now they can't stand by those cuts and think say the president doesn't have a plan and they are threatening yet another default. it just shows you that john boehner can't do anything on his own and he can't govern. >> you know what i'm thinking, mr. israel? i'm thinking that if romney gets to be pred president, what he is offering up, i'll be another boehner. i'm not as crazy as the rest of these coo-coo clucks, 200

republican tea partiers, but i will do what they tell me to do. i'm not as loony tune as they are, but i will act like him. look at boehner, he's not loony tune. he is a regular person. he is not right winger but he will do what they want him to do. have hell to pay. bring the government a halt like newt gingrich. he may as well be one of the tea parties. is the republican party run by its bottom, by least informed people telling the top people who do know what is going wrong to do what they do? i'm afraid we are looking at boehner too here. the mitt will be another boehner. another middle of the road republican. listening to the call of the right. >> well, chris, i think the problem is that inmates are running the asylum. john boehner didn't have control of his caucus. america needs a republican party. you know this better than anybody. ronald reagan and tip o'neill could negotiate compromise. these people believe that compromise is evil. they will not compromise. they want it all their way tp it is partisan obstruction. we don't even have a

transportation bill because these people believe that roadway kes only veer to the far far right and they will be held accountable. i think politically, they don't take advice from me, but any time they can contrast to protect medicare and middle class and have tax cuts for millionaires, we win that argument. >> i know and why would any voter say, let's screw the poor people one more time. let's get rid of food stamps. medicaid, can't go to er or hospital, nothing. not giving you anything. meanwhile, they come up with more breaks for the rich. doesn't seem nick any progress was made at the white house today when the president did meet with leaders like boehner and other members of the congressional leadership. here is jay carney's read out of the event today. >> the president also made clear that he refuses to allow a replay of last summer's self inflicted political crisis. that eroded confidence and hurt the american economy. the president reiterated that any serious bipartisan approach

to tackle our deficit must be a balanced approach and he made clear his willingness to work with republicans and democrats it stake out an agreement along those lines. but was just as clear he would not accept an approach asking middle class families and senior citizens to make sacrifices without asking for anything more from millionaires and billion airs. >> speaker boehner provided this account a different one of course. speaker asking the president if he is proposing that congress bass an increase in the debt ceiling. this does not include spending cuts to help reduce the deficit. the president said yes, the speaker told the president as long as i'm around here i won't allow a debt ceiling increase without doing something serious about the debt. blah blah blah. i want it ask you a political question mr. israel. injury job o is to get democrats re-elected. here is my concern as an american watching this thing. if the republicans are right and they can screw up the economy, every time they talk debt ceiling crisis, every time they say the government will go to shut down, every time they say

we're going it renege on paying debts, the s&p standard and poors may go down. a friend of mine just emailed me saying every time the s&p a goads down, in other word the market goes down, obama goes down. could it be they have a very serious plan here to basically sabotage the president? which is create this screw-up with the debt, once again we get a lower bond rating, once again the economy starts to creep along instead of roaring along. the president goes down in the numbers on job performance and they pick up the pieces. what's wrong with that as strategy for them, in terms of real politics? >> i think you're right. mitch mcconnell said that republicans have one mission, deny barack obama a second term. they are all about one thing and this is yi why i think we will take the house back. people are fed up. i don't think it works. i think people are smart. they realize who is driving the bus, house republicans and they are only driving to the far far right and they keep stomping

their foot on brakes. on the economy, on jobs be a everything else. they will be held accountable it a strategy putting artisan obstructionism and economy for the middle class. >> david, i know you are an advocate but also an journalist. >> i think they are taking advantage, skploint is the anger out there, that some dez dem krt and the president hasn't tapped as eequitilily as they could. they vote for the incumbent regard lusz of who the challengers are?two is to blame. >> this is where democrat have danger. >> they believe in government. they are willing to say where the government -- tea party say they are the protest party. >> exactly. but listen, mitt romney is out there not saying much about anything. just blasting away the at president. congressman israel and everybody else can say, look at what the republicans, and what john boehner is doing and it may bring down the economy and cause all sort of pain but mitt

romney's strategy will be to stand apart from that. and let it fall-so how do you tie this together -- >> mr. israel, let's talk about the timing here. here we are in may, half way through the month. have a big hot summer ahead of us, what point does this crisis hit. they say we have to deal with the bush tax cuts, deal with the problem of cuts and domestic and military spending cuts and deal with the fact that we have to raise the debt ceiling. is all this going to crash before the election? are they going to stop the government before november? >> they tried to do it last year. again this is a bad summer rerun. we have seen the play book. we know how it plays out. i believe it is their plan to do everything they can to make the president look bad. the tragedy here is it doesn't have to go down like this. we can compromise. government wapts want s to end

spending that doesn't work. we wish we add a republican to negotiate with. we can solve this. >> by the way, what you said about reagan is right. they did negotiate and fight but they did negotiate. am i too strong in saying this is a sabotage campaign? >> you asking me, chris? >> yes. >> no, mcconnell said that. he never said our mission is to create jobs for the american people. but to take one job away from the president of united states. >> you're a great guest. good luck. thank you david corn. wur your book is called "showdown ". we are ready for paper back. these characters are doing it for you again. great book promotion by the way. why is romney ducking the press? on the plane being cute about it, saying he doesn't have to answer your questions, laughing about it in that sort of phony laugh of his. what is he two going to do as president? by the way, bain capital. that's where you work, where you get rich. explain the money. showis how you made the money.

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we got some new polling from two battle ground states. let's check the score board. in wisconsin a tight race. obama 47. romney, 46. let's go to north carolina where another ppb poll finds a similar score. president leads by a point. 48-47. couldn't be tighter than this. we'll be right back. y. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪ to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it?

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back to "hardball." reporters, stay away. that's the message today from mitt romney's staff which prevented reporters from getting anywhere near the guy. here are a few tweets from top reporters from top news outlets. associated press's casey hunt wrote today in her tweet, campaign staff and volunteers trying to physically prevent reporters from approaching the rope line to ask questions of romney. the wall street journal sarah

murray wrote press lead on the romney bus announces no questions that our decision, a reporter asked. romney campaign spokesperson said it was an error but all this suggest a campaign determined to keep the candidate on message and not talk about the topic obvious to everyone else, bain capital. that was impressive from mike huckabee in 2008. i want to go to kornacki, a good reporter. this four corner offense against romney on what he did and how many jobs he cost people in real life situation says hurting him so much he dare not speak? >> you know, the problem that i have with the idea that they think they can run the clock out on this is this was the major line of attack that democrats

used when he ran for office in massachusetts in 1994. using it again in 2002. >> it worksed. >> it is obvious it is coming and the idea if the campaign has this thought that we can just sort of keep limb away from the press, this is not a one-day story. i think they know this. democrats will be pounding away at it from here to november. >> how can you not? >> yes. >> all he does is brag about being a job creator. he is not job creator as 47th among the state. >> they undermine the credibility of the economy. when you look at poll, is t is basically even. romney has the advantage, only place he has advantage is who is better on helping the economy. people seem to connect business success with economic competence and the obama campaign has it break that link. for. >> they do. what do you think of this chip? campaign strategy going an hot strength like karl rove and

bushes went after john kerry's war record. >> no question. i think barack obama will try to make bain a four letter word. >> it is a four-letter word. it sound like pain. >> i think if i was running the romney campaign i would hit it head on and go on in and tell everything about every success story i could find at bain. every time they would bring up something bad, i would bring up something good. i know they add factory worker say he lost his job because of bain capital. . i would turn it around earn say they have jobs because of manufacturing and things like staples and push back hard. >> if they made those companies rich, how come bain got all the money. he end up a quarter billionaire. you got ask yourself, did they take the money out of the companies aep drop them, cost cut them to death? take profits and sale and flip them? nobody ended up as a better company? could be possible they didn't create jobs. >> i think they did create jobs

and this is startup capital. the guys that are in irs in. if they lose everything, they lose everything. >> except that bain calls always wins. >> they don't always win. >> pretty much. vice president biden introduced by a factory worker who lost his job at a bain takeover. h is exploiting things pretty well. here is the vice president. let's listen. >> his corporate buyout firm bain capital bought my plant. they brought in security guards, fired us all, walked us out of the building. we saw families devastated, communities devastated by this act. few hired back. when they hired us back they cut our wages, cut our benefits, they took our retirement package. in eight short years, mitt romney and his buddies took $100 million out of company, the company called ampad, and let it

go bankrupt. >> that's a testify,ster cor ste kornacki. >> you know, i remember that being used against romney. why does it seem to work against romney in 94 and not 2002? i think there is something particular about the climate of 2012 that might be conclusive for this line of attack. we are living in you why know in the wake of the financial dealt melt don't of 2008 and stories are widespread persuasive struggling in this country and there is that super affluent elite that got richer during all of this. >> but steve, we all know startry. they make movies about this. well turned out ivy league sharpies showed up that never had their fingernails dirty. go in and take jobs away from factory workers who worked the

skr job 20 or 30, bust their hump, then they take the company and flip it. some family member has been through it. it used to be called efficiency experts now they are called private equity. >> they were worried when the consultants came to town. >> they aren't helping you do your job. why are you here is the first question from most people. class issue, more people will identify with that factory worker, especially in pennsylvania, ohio -- what am i saying, everywhere but with romney. here is a guy not ready for television. he looks real. >> he is real. that's why if the romney campaign with push back with jobs because of what romney did -- >> you think they got any? >> i think they got plenty of folks. >> guys that look like romney. guys that work at bain. >> plenty of people at staples have jobs. >> bain seems to follow romney wherever he goes np an article in tampa bay times welcome romney to florida with this,

quote, dade bering wound up shuttering two medical facilities in miami. some 850 jobs were lost while bain walked away $242 million and 800% return on investment. that's what i'm talking about. bain wins, the factories lose. let me go back to steve. are you an expert on this kind of thing about how equity comes in and shakes up these companies, cuts their costs, then flips them? is it usually to the advantage of workers, people that work there, or never to the advantage of middle management who get sliced? might be to the advantage of stock holders of the companies? maybe that's different. >> it can to the advantage of the worker. can be to the advantage of middle management but always to the company like bain. that's the problem. i'm sure there are stamps and anecdotes that romney can churn up and say, this is jobs because of what bain did. the nature of his business is making money for investors.

it isn't creating jobs as we likes to say on the stump. there will be a lot of stories like the ones we are hearing now. >> let's try to reenact ahead of time the first debate. >> right. >> right? romney comes out with a sledge hammer punch. you had your chance were you're a good man, you tried everything, monitory fiscal, bernanke's help, this is the economy you're left with. give mae clans. obama comes back and says, let's talk about what you did when you had your chance. right? he goes through a number of these heldish horror stories about bain. is that the debate? >> i think that is part of debate and i think romney can come back with success stories he had. bottom line is these guys made tough investments when they decided to invest in companies. they didn't win every time so you have to have a lot of wins for the losses. they put a lot of money in it to work and that's what you have to push back on. >> it'll be obama's advantage to name names of people screwed by bain and expected mitt won't know their names. he will say, you don't even know

the names of the guys you screwed. does this name mean anything to you? does this name mean anything to you? i have a sense they will do that. >> i have have a feeling that six months from now, romney will know all those names. >> maybe it will have an affect. i think we are previewing big debates this fall. up next, mitt romney putting music? believe it. >> ♪ ♪ >> we will show you more of this weirdo stuff in a minute. this is "hardball," the place for politics. is this what we're doing now?

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now romney's campaign says we shouldn't plan on seeing their candidate slow jamming the news any time soon as president obama did last month with jimmy fallon but we are still getting a version of mitt romney put to music. here it is, mitt romney aught aut why tune id. ♪ i love people born and raidsed here, i love this stait ♪ i love cars, i love american cars ♪ ♪ i love you i like mandates ♪ ♪ i like grits ♪ i love this country ♪ laurel enhardy, ketone cops ♪ do you like vampires ♪ i don't like vampires personally, i don't know any. i want people to know precisely why i'm running for president. the answer is very simple. ♪ i love people ♪ i love it state ♪ i love cars ♪ i love american cars in the ♪

♪ ♪ >> that tells you something, doesn't it? that was brought to you by the gregory brothers. work for you? i think so for me. next up, how is this for behind the times. pennsylvania republican congressman joe pits replied to an e-mail from one of his constituents who wanted to express concern about the middle east peace process. it doesn't take much to congres response. catch this. this is his response formally in a letter. with the global war against terrorism it is ip come bent for prime men stir sharon and yasser arafat to clampdown on palestinian extremist that have perpetuated violence and to restart a peace process that has collapsed. that the normal answer in a letter by the congressman. sharon and arafat? sharon hasn't been israel's prime minister since suffering a

stroke in 2006, six years ago. yasser arafat, he died eight years ago. a spokesman fcongressman pits says it was an updated form letter, stating, particularly embarrassing. you think so in congressman, update your letters. not such a bad idea with so much hot button issues on table from debt limit to tax policies. luckily he also had a scheduled visit to a local deli before the meeting. >> my message to congress and i will see the directional leadership when i get back to the white house. i will offer them from hogueys while they're there, is let's go ahead and act to help build and sustain momentum for our econ bhi but let's make sure we don't lose steam. this is no joke.

>> hoguey of course is very philly but a grinder is probably a better word for this meeting with republicans. that what they called hogueys up in massachusetts. anyway, up next, defense rest in the john edward trial. we will get the latest from north carolina. sex, money, politics. wheel thing. this is "hardball," the place for hol ticks. countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this.

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i'm hampton hearson with your cnbc market wrap. there were bright spots but not enough to overshadow wore wis about greece. housing a starts rose, stronger than expected. meanwhile industrial output rose 1.1% last month.

biggest gain since december 2010. oil prices slip to their lowest level since november below $93 a barrel. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." what a trial. the defense in the john edwards trial rested after only two days of evidence. it was a fraction of the evidence last week. then the prosecution proved beyond all reasonable doubt that edward violated the law. melinda hindenburger and north carolina bep uty general. let let me start with me lina

d.a. melinda on the case. i'm skeptical the law was broken. how about the jury, stinky eyes. they don't like the lookses of john edward. >> i think i saw the stink eye. >> the stifrpg eye. >> yeah. you can't know what a jury thinks until the verdict. but they really today know that he knew what law was and meant to break it. they didn't get there in my opinion but i would say there are a couple of women jurors who have really been putting the eye on -- >> you believe he is guilty of knowingly violating the law here? >> well, he cop sulted -- the lawyers he consulted on the law were his old partner who does cases like he used to do, which has nothing to do with campaign finance. and fred barron and lisa blue,

late fred baron and his wife, lisa blue, who did asbestos cases in texas. so none were campaign finance lawyers and knew about that. i think that he knew -- finance law is actually than kplacated. and i think he knew that he was breaking it. prs. >> let me interrupt you and go hampton. everybody watching this show follows politics know you can only make $2300 contribution and another 2300 to the general. some are giving huge amount of money no a guy for other reasons is not dilewded into thinking it is a campaign contribution. no one thinks it is a contribution. this is not treated under the law under a campaign contribution. the guy should not go to prison for 30 years over this case. your view of how the trial is going hampton? >> first of all, i taught election law and i don't think it is simple and i don't think

this jury should think election law is simple. there's no question, never been a case like this before. edward didn't offer anything in return. so he is relying on the fact that the government has to prove he knew he was violating the law. that he willfully violated the law and the government never got in direct evidence of that. >> so what you're saying, the case and how it is going, the defense rests today. it gez to the jury friday. the judges just instructed the jury saying that you don't have to believe that the only reason the money was given was for political purposes, just the main purpose was for political purposes. that's all you have to believe to convict a guy. >> right. edward hasn't gotten anywhere near what wasn'ted from the judge in terms of jury instructions. that will be an issue on appeal. he didn't get in all he wanted, not just from former law partners but he had former chairman prepared to testify

that even if you assumed all the al jalgtss were true it is an civil violation, this money to a mistress and edwards ton report it. but the chair was able to say this never came up. they destroyed andrew young's credibility showing that most of the money stayed with the youngs and didn't go to hunter. so edwards ended with a whimper. it was a safe strategy. the question is, was it too safe? >> reasonable doubt in the eyes of the juries or two hold out that don't like him, because what do did you say, stink eyes against him? >> i just don't think they like him. >> the north carolinians feelings because his disloyalty to his wife, elizabeth. trying to cover it up. they just don't like him enough to convict him because they don't like him. >> it is a possibility but they

went through 200 jurors to come up with 12. the judge will be stern telling jurors they have to put aside their personal opinion of edwards. remember he only needs one hold out in his favor. if there are two against him, the government won't bring this case again, i can't imagine. if he can find one juror to embrace his theory then he should back. >> that's an interesting thought. hung jury works for johned war. >> oh, sure. >> fascinating. >> yes. >> go ahead, hampton. along that thought, all he has do is not get convicted this time. and he wins? >> sure. the government has every right to try this case again but it is hard it imagine they would put in the resourcees a second time if they can't get a unanimous jury this time. >> i just want to know why president obama kept the republican prosecutor in office after he came into office himself. why did he keep a hold over there pushing the case like this? i hate to be partisan but it

seems odd -- let me go to melinda here. a strange case when the democrat comes into office, keep the republican at hold over, and in what looks like a real crusade. >> i don't i don't know about motivation, i really don't. >> you've been great covering the trial. thank you me lane da. thank you hampton dellinger. up next, how supou super mc carri carried. we don't like that kind of money. we will talk to the guy behind this. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ banker ] mike and brenda found a house that they really wanted.

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on the next place we found. which was clear on the other side of town. [ male announcer ] wells fargo. with you when you're ready to move. more polling numbers now from the presidential race. from two states that are home to potential romney running mates. first to new jersey where a new quinnipiac poll showes a big lead for the president. obama wsh 49 bp romney, 39. ten-point spread. now add chris christie to the ticket and the president still leads by 8. it is obama/biden 50. romney/christie 42. now to new hampshire, president obama has a 12-point lead. this is good for him. this state could have gone the other way with. 53-41. if you add kelly ayot, still double digits. obama/biden 52. romney/ayote 42. don't count on the running mate it change nothing. we'll be right back.

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♪ or else you could be headed for a credit wipeout ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. welcome back to "hardball." results last night in the republican senate primary out in nebraska came as a shock to many. deb fisher, rancher and state senator badly outspent by the two two in the race pulled off a a big upset victory. this is the second time in. >> many weeks a republican primary dumped a for an insurgeant like her. rich luger lost to a fellow named murdoch. nebraska saw a flood of money from groups like the club for growth and jim demints conservative fund however those groups didn't back fisher the winner. instead fisher benefitsed from last minute endorsements including slin and an infusion

of money from a super pac including joel rickenes who owns the cubs in chicago. that super club you with the p ut out two ads supporting fish per whap does this tell us about the post sit generals # zens united world is it one thing that man can commit with influence on campaigns thanks to his money? brian baker is called the ending spending action fund. and daniela gibbs is a democratic strategist and vice president for the center of american progress. we have been very tough on this show. we, me, everybody here, doesn't like the idea in the democracy that somebody with big daddy war bucks money can come in at the last minute dump a tremendous amount of money especially in a case calling themselves nonprofits and turn the direction of a democracy because they have the loot to do it. they don't have one vote, they have 200,000. now defend that thing. do you run that pac, defend that democracy? >> not everybody has a cable talk show.

>> i'm not running for office. >> not everybody has a paper or hollywood actor that raises $200 million in an hour at their home. super pacs increase the flow of information to voters and voters get it right. the other thing is, chris, every dollar donated to super pac is disclosed, fully transparent. >> except for the nonprofits. >> no. >> grass roots gps, they don release names. >> i don't speak on behalf of crossroads but can i tell you that they release information on every dollar disclosed. you know the name of the person with the money. >> people have no time to distill what the truth is, just a big slam in the face, your thoughts? >> i agree with you completely. the problem is unlimited, unfeddered money just flowing in at last minute. i think stit zens. >> no $2300 limit. >> no limit. one person, one corporation, you know, one billionaire can totally influence the outcome an an election and you will see this happening across the state. >> let's look at the ads.

here are the two ads your group began airing days before the election. first one has endorsements fisher received including from sarah palin. let's watch it. >> could there be a surprise in tuesday's vote for senate? republican politician everyone assume woed win is sinking. vot? the politician everybody assumed would win is sinking, and a nebraska rancher is rising faster. former government kate other, sarah palin, this tuesday, surprise the world. vote for deb ficsher. the other ad goes against her opponent. >> the world expects jon bruning as our republican senate. at attorney general he made millions, bought a $600,000 vacation home. as the state oes top lawyer, he somehow obtained significant

ownership in state regulated companies. anyone with bruning. >> crust, the point i was trying to make is if money mattered, one of these other candidates would have one. one out of every ten dollars of spent for deb ficsher. >> those ads were trashing the opponents. there was nothing about economics. . >> the other candidates spent millions beating each other up. >> i like when two guys trash each other and someone else wins. do you think there should be campaign limits? i can't do it because of my job, but a individual out there can give $2300 if they're well off, but that's it. your guy can drop $2,000 in a

weekend. is that fair? >> i think it would be much better if we didn't have limited at all and the money went right to campaigns and was fully disclosed. >> so why don't we just call them auctions infred of elect n electio elections. >> why are you afraid of voters getting information. >> come on. >> i know you have to say that because of your job, but give me a break. what you're advocating is for the wealthiest people to have outsized influence in our process. >> we don't political advocacy ads, and if we did, we would disclose our donors. >> what about priorities, for the obama super pac. >> we do not have darcht opinion because one group is an opinion

or democrat. we think there needs to be limits for how much people can gulf. >> there's a time when a school teacher can get elected to congress like they used to do. i know a lot of people. they get elected to congress. if you ran a pretty good campaign, you came across well, you could win a race without having a zillion dollars. you say this information flow is run by money. >> no that's not what i said. >> deb fisher is an example of what you're talking about. a rancher, mother, owner, she decided to run for office. >> she was anointed by your rich buddy. >> no. >> mr. rickets has a couple hundred million dollars i'll give you some. >> no, that's not true. >> if deb fisher gets to the united states senate, will mr. rick ets get a meeting with her

once in awhile? >> we just want a budget and he wants the leaders to lead. >> go to our website. endingspending.com is all -- >> thank you sir and madame. i like you a lot. i disagree with you i like you. when we return, let me finish with the choice in this presidential election about what we know and what we don't know. you're watching hb,"hardball," place for politics. wake up!

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let me finish tonight with this. i think we have a strange election campaign againgetting way. he is cool, smart, a good sense of humor. he is a fairly pragmatic progressive on the political side. what's he up against? good question. romney has a moderate in massachusetts. he was pro-choice, said he was more for gay rights than ted kennedy. then he went right. by the end of this season, he is nasty on immigration, talking about self deportation, talking about who knows what with iran, a return to w. that era of republican rule that

nobody dare repeat talk about repeating openly. romney says strange things about liking to fire people and the marvelous nature of the ryan plan. what drew him into politics in the first place? right now he is hiding from the press, he doesn't want to talk about how he made his money, nothing about that company that made him rich, win the election, be the alternative. he'll just be there. he is brand x, expected to choose for no reason other than we have not tried it yet. this is how mitt won the primaries, he spent tens of millions destroying his opponents on tv ads. so this is what we're getting this november, a candidate we know, and one waiting in the shadows hoping