would just slash his red pen through, that's all just a mask. the text goes on to describe the hyper partisan, hyper liberal elitist politician, president barack obama who is somehow crude, bumbling and flailing. doesn't have to make sense, you know. just put up a lot of scary pictures. for example, a soccer mom, hopeless and lost in utter despair. oh, god, what would he do next? shock, horror, he might protect your child's head start funding. since the story has emerged, everyone including the economist joe ricketts has disavowed the plan and mitt romney has added his condemnation as well. saying what we've seen so far from the obama campaign is a campaign of character assassination. i hope that isn't the course of this campaign. so in regards to that pac, i repudiate what they're thinking about. as i said at the top, we are an on camera statement from mr. romney in jacksonville and we

bring it to you live the moment it happens. first let's bring in our supreme pam. here in new york a special appearance by political analyst david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones magazine. and author of "showdown." and a first appearance in my studio, and jonathan capehart, opinion writer for the "washington post" and who attends our program most regularly. jonathan, david, i have to say that although this document contains a ridiculous, erroneous, vacuous attempt to link wright with the president, it also contains a withering putdown of mitt romney. referring to voters, perhaps even romney could do a better job. this is a guy who wants to spend $10 million attacking the president and doesn't even like the guy who is fighting for him. >> he doesn't have to. it is all about exploiting hatred of barack obama.

on different levels. what you have is a gom consultant exploiting the hatred of a billionaire to line his own pockets. and we're going to see a lot of this in the next five or six months. you have karl rove, fred davis and others. knocking on doors of all these billionaires. i call them villionaires. to you and me, that is $100. you can destroy this president in north carolina, virginia, i'll give you the great ads and you can tell your friends at the club, i took down barack obama. this is not the first time -- this is not the last time we'll see an attack like. this it will go all the way to election day. if it is an ad like, this it will be other ones emerging. >> do republicans really want to start talking about religious influence on candidates? do they really want to us start talking about mitt romney who is part of a religious group that has been one of the most racially segregated in the

history of this country until the late 1970s, african-americans, people of color could not be ordain. does he really want to us start talking about his grandfather who had five wives or his great grabbed father who will 12 wives and was a mormon? is that what they want us to do? >> no. >> why start picking one jeremiah wright again. >> this is hate porn. it is just hate porn. as david said, it can be your name here, joe ricketts. you can be the proud owner of this hate porn that goes after the president in these hot button horrible ways that get you excited. i mean, really. you read that thing. it is disgusting to us but you can just imagine someone reading that and thinking, wow, i'm the man with the guts to do that. he takes a swipe at romney. they take a swipe at john mccain who was old. these are also, let's remember these are the people who brought us demon sheep and kristine o'donnell i am not a witch.

they've brought down other republicans with their idiotic ads. they came from jon huntsman campaign. that was a profile in excellence. they're out raising money and it is a ridiculous ad but we'll see more of it. >> what seem most ridiculous about this particular play book is that we've seen the president close up for the best part of four years. have you ever heard him promote black liberation theology? have you ever heard him make any kind of incendiary reference, sorry, i'm going to have to stop. here's mitt romney. >> asked by someone here about whether i had seen "the new york times" article about a pac that was being formed to attack president obama and if i had a reaction to it. i had not seen the article at that point. but i read the article on the aircraft as i read the article, i want to make it very clear, i repudiate that effort. i think it is the wrong course for a pac or a campaign.

i hope that our campaigns can respectively be about the future and about issues and about a vision for america. i've been disappointed in the president's campaign to date which has focused on character assassination. i just think we're wiser to talk about the issues of the day. what we do to get america working again and talk about our respective records. over with that, i hope you get to see our first ad. that will come up in a couple of days. it will be a positive ad about the thing i would do if i were president. it is contrasting with the president's ad which came out again as a character assassination ad. so my own view is that we can talk about a lot of thing but the center piece of his campaign quite clearly, character assassination and the center piece of my campaign is going to be my vision to get america working again and provide a brighter future for our kids.

>> when you say character assassination, what specifically are you talking about? >> i'll let you take a look at it. obviously his efforts to look at my work at bain is to try to characterize me in a way that isn't accurate. my work at bain was to try to make the enterprises more successful. to grow them. there is this fiction that some have that somehow you can be highly successful by stripping assets from enterprise and walking away with lot of money and can i go the enterprise. there may be some people that know how to do that. i sure dope. our approach was to make the enterprise more successful. and the purpose of the president's ads are not to describe success and failure but to somehow suggest that i'm not a good person or not a good guy. and i think the american people will know better than that if they don't already. this really should be a campaign about the future. about who can get america on track again to create good jobs. who can do a better job for our kids. it is about jobs and kids.

and having to campaign focus on character assassination is one of the things i find offensive among many others in the pac description that came in the new york times. if that's accurate, why, obviously that's something i repudiate. >> [ inaudible ] do you stand by that and do you believe -- [ inaudible ]. >> i'm be familiar precisely with precisely what i said. i stand by it whatever it was. and with regard to, i'll go back and take a look at what was said there. the focus of my campaign will be, as i've just suggested, on the future and who can do best to bull an america that has great promise and great

opportunity for fulfillment of dreams. i don't know what must-win is. you have to win the number of states that gets you over the electoral majority. but florida is certainly a state i want to win. a state which george w. bush won. and given the fact it is voted republican in the past as well as democrat, this is a state that will be a battle ground state and i sure hope to win this one and ohio and virginia, north carolina. there are a number of states that should be in my column if i'm going to be successful. as to which one is must-win and which ones could fill in for one that might underperform, i can't give you that. i can tell you, you know, florida is a state that i'm koumting on to be successful in. thanks, guys. thank you. >> that was mitt romney addressing the question of the new york times front page story about a super pac that he says has nothing to do with him and

indeed doesn't. referencing jeremiah wright and a plan to attack the president. i'm still with david corn, joan walsh and of course, jonth capehart. he said the president has been engaged in a character assassination. >> at the same time he said we should be talking about our records. i think what he calls character assassination is the obama campaign effort to go over the bain record. which it has been doing lately and also what he may have done or be done in massachusetts. so when he talk on obama's record, that's fine. when obama talks about his record, well, it's character assassination because it doesn't always work out so well for mitt romney. >> joan, he also said just now, he was asked about comments he made on sean hannity's radio program where he said, completely unprompted. i'm not sure which is worse. the president listening to the revv rented wright or him saying that we must be a less christian nation. he said i stab by what in,

whatever it was. >> whatever it was. >> that's mitt romney. does that mean he does stand by the idea of suggesting as he appears to in this radio interview that the president has been listening and been influenced by the reverend jeremiah wright? >> he will stand by it until somebody convinces him it is not a good idea to stand by it and then he will not stand by it. we spend day after day, martin, trying to figure out what does mitt romney really mean? and it is such a waste of time. because he will change it tomorrow if he needs to. he will say what he needs to say. >> a state. one of the states will underperform. not him. >> the state would underperform. >> what did you think about him saying that the president is describing his experience at bain camden and he deems it to be fiction. really? >> reporter: well, actually, yes. that's what i was thinking. i think david hits the nail on the head. if you criticize mitt romney and

his record, his experience as a chief at bain capital, it is character assassination. but he can go after, people affiliated with him or what he is trying to do in terms of securing the presidency. if they hit the president, that's fair game. and i'm glad you and joan brought up this contradiction. on the one hand, he is saying he repudiates the ricketts plan. then when he is asked about what happened in if he can with sean hannity, he says i don't remember what i said but i stand by it. someone in the romney campaign has to do the additional leg work to make sure that their candidate doesn't step on his own message. >> they need to do opposition on their own candidate. >> maybe i'm not literate enough. >> you're definitely not literate enough. the headline in the drudge report before we came to the studio has an alleged literary

agent shocker which says, the president's literary agent, in around the early 1990s saying, that he was born in kenya and raised in indonesia and hawaii. is this a sign of how we're going to start going back to the birther issues and all the rest of it? >> of course. anybody who ever made a mistake, misspoke, didn't know what they were talking about, said anything about the president that is the least bit unflattering, is going to be fair game for the rest of this campaign. this is the way it is going to be. >> what do you think of that drudge report from page? >> i'm not surprised. i'm be surprised at all. the birther issue never really died. we just stopped paying attention to it when those of houston are rational and can understand what facts are, moved on once the president released the full form birth certificate even after we believe the short form. the certificate of live birth. this is just a resurrection of something that the fringe of the

right wing has been harboring for a very long time. this is something that those folks who are still harboring, those grassy knollers who are still hanging on to the theory to delegitimize those behind me. they're going to love this. >> david, is this a sign of what we're going to have to get used to virtually every week until november? >> i don't think it will stop. it went through the campaign. you saw this in the bill clinton years, saying that he had a son and involved in drug dealing and it didn't matter that he won the re-election. the profits he made by people who peddle these conspiracies and it gets the base going. he said andrew brightbart did not believe in birtherism. why do you throw dust up? >> do you agree with that? >> yes, i do. i think we've seen it and we try to shoot it down.

really remembering clinton, i remember standing by for dna results. of some child that he allegedly fathered which he did not. but we do play along. we wine up playing along and sometime we resist and sometime we cannot help it. >> joan walsh, thanks for joining us. >> we've kicked this can down the road so many times. it ought to make people -- >> you know, the old kicking the cab down the road. >> keep on kicking the can down the road. >> kicks the can down the road. >> let's kick the can down the road. >> kick the can down the road. >> kick the can down the road. >> continue to kick the can down the road. ahh, now that's a clean mouth. i wish i could keep it this way. [ dr. rahmany ] you see, even after a dental cleaning... plaque quickly starts to grow back. but new crest pro-health clinical plaque control toothpaste can help.

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political garriunsurprising gallup poll reveals a grim that i can if you are for lawmakers. 17% of americans currently approve of the job congress is doing. while 79% disapprove. that's not deterring house speaker john bainer from picking yet another fight. not about energy or job or even national security. no, he wants to bring back the debt ceiling debacle. >> we've kicked the can down the road so many times. it ought to make people throw up over it. we know what the problem is. we know what the menu of options are. what we need is leaders who have the courage to deal with the problems we have. >> congressman charlie rangel is

a congressman from new york and he joins us live from capitol hill. good afternoon. >> good to be back with you. >> thank you. we'll get to the debts and deficits in a moment. i want to begin with your immediate reaction to the front page story in the new york time which reveal the plans of one republican super pac to dredge up the reverend wright in a campaign of character assassination against the president. now, mitt romney has just disavowed the pitch. he said he wants no part of it. is this a siphon things to come in a post citizens united world? >> i think so. and i think it reaches the point that mitt romney can deny all he wants. i think the public is sophisticated enough to know these millions of dollars that are being poured into the negative campaign is probably his best strength is to destroy. i think, i'm a little surprised, however, that boehner has joined in with them. but then again when you think about it, he would not be

speaker unless he had these people's support. >> right. >> i tell you that even when you see that they're doing this and bringing up these things against obama, aren't we all aware that mely after the president was sworn in, a group of republicans that had newt gingrich as a part of them decided that the way they were going to combat this new president and administration was to destroy it. and so here they run around with hand grenades saying, if i can't have my way, i'll blow the whole thing up. >> now, begin that last year's row over the debt ceiling shook the money markets, it undermined our fragile economic recovery. it results in the united states being downgraded, what possible good reason would there be for speaker bainer to relitigate this particular fight? some people say it is like a shotgun. it won't take all the pellets

that killed somebody. you know, it is a very weak weapon. but you hope and pray that something sticks. and it seems to me when you prepare to put the prestige of the united states of america on the line, jeopardize the lives of the vote, whether they're sic sick, pension investors, protect the rich to make certain that the budget will be balanced by cutting off spending for those people, that basically what you're saying, i'm all in. when you're prepared to put that all on the line to destroy a president it is madness. what worries me is that where are the good people? when i saw the republican candidates, all pushing to see which one could be the most

comfort to the rich and scare the heck out of the poor, and which one could be the meanest among the christians, i thought -- >> between 1960 and last year, the debt ceiling was raised 78 time. 49 of those by republican presidents. just 29 with democrats in the white house. so is this really about the long-term future of the country or is this john boehner joining mitt romney, mitch mcconnell, determined simply to attack the president even if it means it harms the economic recovery of the nation? >> that decision was made during the last debt ceiling debate. they were prepared and did indeed put the full faith and credit of the united states of america, the most old democracies are relying on us and even people in america are relying on their investments and

say that jemdizing them, if it meant destroying the reputation of the president, and that president is obama, they'll risk the united states. it is totally immoral, apolitical, and i refuse to accept that even though they may be able to kick the can past the election date. they knl survive this type of policy. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> i stand by what i said whatever it was. you know, we're a little early for this thing...

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from that sick feeling to those awkward prom pictures. here are today's top lines. come on, man! >> my mother and father dreamed as much as any rich guy dreams. >> come on, man. >> do you think reverend right is off limits in this campaign? >> come originn, man. >> do you think it is inappropriate -- >> this election will be about this. >> this seem to be about your third endorsement. why do you think people should listen to this today? >> my endorsement evolved. >> i understand george bush coming out for mitt romney. it took a lot of guts. especially when all the other candidates have dropped out. >> if i didn't quote him, you think i'm cynical. >> i pushed the idea of a managed bankruptcy. so i'll take a lot of credit. >> whoa!

>> what's the matter, honey? you don't feel so good? >> we've kicked this can down the road. >> do you feel like you want to throw up? >> okay. >> the inmates are running the asylum. john boehner doesn't have control. >> you know me. i assume they were talking about financial assets will. >> it is called mitt prom-ney. take old prom photos and replace all their photos with mitt romney's face. here's one here. here's another one right here. a bunch of people having a good time there. >> we inherited a god awful situation. the worst recession. >> come on, man! >> let's get right to our panel.

good afternoon to both of you. professor dyson, as you know, by now, jeremiah wright is back in the conversation today after a pac ad pitch promised to take down the president based on that relationship. moments ago, joe biden was asked about it. take a listen, sir. >> i think these guys like that so misunderstand the state of the nation. they act like it is 1942. i mean, i think the public is so, so far beyond. then i heard getting out of car what looked like they aren't going to do that now. look, there are certain things that are so morally clear. >> professor dyson, if the republicans want this to be the 2008 election again, i suppose democrats are not going to stop them, are they? >> absolutely not. vice president biden is right.

is this deja vu all over again? this the yogi berra of political strategy? first of all, i think people have a much more complicated of the reverend jeremiah wright and what he was attempting to do in that particular sermon and his entire career. a man of distinguished service to this country as a military veteran who was decorated by lyndon baines johnson. he preached the gospel year in and year out. to reduce his ministry to a sound bite which is what happened in the last election won't play well this time around. and of course, it shows that the republicans are stuck in the paflt that's the theme that the democrats can exploit usefully to show, we're forward. they're meyered in what is behind us. >> in a rare appearance before reporters, mitt romney appeared and he disavowed this campaign. but was asked about a previous interview with sean hannity where he referenced jeremiah wright, completely unprompted.

here's what romney said today. listen to this, krystal. >> i'm not familiar with precisely what i said but i stand by what inwhatever it was. >> krystal, i'm not precisely aware of what i said. but i stand by what i said. explain that to me. >> it is classic rox i think there was a story about how he has been very kicking reporters off the rope line. he's been very hard to get ahold of. he has not done many interviews. i think comments like that are exactly why they have so limited the press. he had one thing he wanted to say. i repudiate this approach. pivot to an attack on the president. in the enhe took like two questions. in one of them he has to say, i stand by what in, whatever it was. it is classic. this is why he is not allowed to talk to reporters. >> professor, you're an educator in a professional sense.

can you explain to me what he meant by that sentence? i'm not sure of what i said but i stand by what i said. >> i'm not sure what he said but it is full of nothing. this is the pomp and circumstance. this is the performance politics of, you know, of the presidential campaign without the substance. look, i don't know what i said but whatever it was, i'm so adherent and i'm so doggedly dogmatically adhering to what i said. that no matter if it was full of insight or inante, i don't care. the fact that i said it is the important thing. i think that provides a critical lynchpin. for president obama to come, he doesn't know what he's saying half the time. whatever he said, he's going to stick to it. >> he can be keep track of all the positions he's held couple of blame him? he's been all over the guy. >> i suggested that he's had

more positions than a porn convention. what i was going to ask you, krystal, isn't this clear evidence for why this man has refused to appear on "meet the press" since 2009? he won't subject himself to an interview with anyone other than fox news. even when he is interviewed on fox news and the journalist gibbs to ask a telling question. he says let's start the interview again. what does he expect us to do? simply take him at his word even if he can't remember what he just said? >> there is a strange thing going on. on the one hand you get the sense that romney is weighing his words almost too carefully. like he is so cautious about everything that comes out of his mouth. noon he so frequently makes bizarre errors like the one today. he had a disastrous interview on fox news. he had a disastrous interview with megan kelly on fox news. so even the sort of friendly territory has been difficult for him.

i don't know if this is reading too much into things. his father' campaign was completely derailed on one comment that he made about his changing position on vietnam and his having been quote/unquote brainwashed. so mitt romney has made some comments to the effect that he learned a lesson from that. that you have to be very careful about the wording you use. i think that is going into the psychology and some of the risk averseness that he has and discomfort in ever talking to anyone about anything. >> that's a fascinating perspective from his background. krystal ball and professor michael eric dyson, thanks so much. next, an exclusive interview with the general counsel for koch industries. my cut hurt! mine hurt more! mine stopped hurting faster...

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they are philanthropists and patrons of the art. they're also patrons of the conservative movement and an unavoidable part of this country's political conversation. they are the koch brothers. 76-year-old charles and 72-year-old david. but who are they? what do we know about their influence on democracy in this country? well, we're delighted to welcome mark holden, general counsel for koch industries to our studio. good afternoon. >> good afternoon. thanks for having me. >> i'm delighted that you're here. we're disappointed that either of the brothers is not prepared to come on but we're very grateful and acknowledge our appreciation to you. >> they're very busy running the company. ? i understand. >> the koch brothers were recently associate with the controversial stand your ground laws surrounding the death, the killing of trayvon martin. do charles and david koch support this legislation? >> well, let me start, mr.

bashir. we were associated falsely with those lies by a guest host on your show named karen finney. a paid democratic strategist and fund-raiser. >> sorry, mr. holden comfortable i make a couple of corrections? we want to be accurate. >> karen finney hasn't been paid by the dnc for three years. this is a falsehood that you and others have repeated and koch industries have repeated. and i can confirm to you today that she has not been paid a congressmen since 2009. >> okay. so then she is an unpaid strategist phrasing on behalf of the democrats. so let me say at the outset, that was a tragedy, what happened in florida to mr. martin. i think we can all agree. i think it is despicable that anyone regardless of their political affiliation would try to gain political gain by linking us to it falsely which is what miss finney did. she said on your show in march that we were part of what she called the typhoid mary that led to the proliferation of the stand your ground laws in florida and elsewhere. she associated it with the

american legislative exchange counsel and she said we were the reason why this happen. in not so many words. let me finish, please, sir, i was told i would be on the show. >> we have to be accurate. >> and i'm going to finish and then you can tell me where i'm not accurate. >> thank you. >> so miss finney said we were involved. we weren't involved. koch is a member of amp lec. it's been around about 40 years. it has many other corporate members including msnbc's parents, general electric and comcast. we weren't involved in any way in the stand your ground laws. i'm assuming comcast and ge weren't either. to say we were involve was involved is false. to say alec was involved is false. in florida it preexisted anything that alec did. so categorically false, what miss finney said. and there is a part of her statement, i don't have it with me where she was trying to make the sound like a vast republican act that led to these laws around the country. the reality is these laws have had broad bipartisan support

across the country. republicans and democrats. and they have been signed into law, the stand your ground laws by many proth prominent democratic governors including the current secretary of homeland security, napolitanu, the governor of west virginia. >> let me -- >> let me just take you back for a moment. karen finney was using an analogy. and what she said was -- >> a poor analogy. >> but she was using an analogy. she did not suggest that blood was on the koch brothers' hands. she didn't suggest the koch brothers were personally or directly involved in that. she didn't. however -- >> i'm sorry. she called us the typhoid mary. she didn't call us the virgin mary. >> as part of a number of groups including the nra. let's pause on that for a moment. i have to ask you again, the koch brothers through a charitable arm gave $125,000 to alec. that's revealed in a 2009 return. do the koch brothers support stand your ground laws? >> we have no involvement in those laws.

>> i'll asking you if they support. >> i don't know what they support. i know the democrats and republicans support them. i can tell you our involvement is limited to economic issues. limited to economic freedom and limited government and individual liberty. that's what the koch brothers believe. just because you're may be of the group doesn't mean you're supporting and involved in every aspect. for example, common cause, sierra club, center for american progress. they have many members on the left them all sponsored a viltd hateful racist protest outside of our seminar in january 2011 in palm springs. i don't think that those groups would support that all their members. >> you just said repeatedly that democrats and republicans support the work of alec and you've referenced and evidence that had in this answer. >> i'm sorry to interrupt you but i was talking they supported the bipartisan support for the stand your ground laws. >> so i have to ask you, do the koch brothers support stand your ground laws? >> i don't know. i've never talk to them about it. >> you've never spoken to them about this issue.

>>. >> if they don't, why have they not taken a step like coca-cola? like wendy's and mcdonald's who have walked away following this terrible and tragic death? why have they not taken an avowed public step to say, well, we haven't disclosed that we support stand your ground laws but we're making it absolutely clear to america we want nothing to do with this have comcast and ge done this? they're your parent. with respect, i'll asking you the question. >> i can answer the question. >> why have they not walked away like mcdonald's, coca-cola and wendy's, following what happened in the horrendous killing of this young teenager. >> i agree it is horrendous and tragic as we said at the beginning. they've not walked away because their involvement in alec like a lot of company including msnbc's patient, comcast and ge. there is other work they. do they have nothing to do with the second amendment issues. it is not clear what role if any

these laws played in that tragic shooting. i think there will be -- we don't know yet. >> we're awaiting the trial. >> exactly comfortable we let that process go? >> can i play you something? >> an imposter pretending to be david koch made a call to louver governor scott walker. >> i'll tell you what. once crash these [ bleep ] i'll fly you out to cali and show you a good time. >> all right. that would be outstanding. thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward. >> assuming scott walker's position, which was he believed that was david koch, what is that phone call worth to scott walker? >> i have no idea what you're asking. that was part of -- >> how much have the koch brothers contributed? >> i don't know. >> have they contributed? >> i don't know. >> you're the general counsel know sir. >> right, this is not a legal issue.

we were falsely inserted into the wisconsin story line as well by -- >> here's the interesting thing. >> you keep saying everyone is falsely incertaining you. and here's scott walker, the governor of wisconsin who at this moment almost half the peel in the state object to the leadership. and you're not prepared to tell me if the koch brothers support him in the stance that he's taken on worker's rights. can you tell me if they contribute any money to scott walker? >> i can tell what you pac did. they contribute $40 smrs which was one half of 1% of what was raised. >> of course. so you have contributed. >> the koch pac did. and the support was based on that we have thousands of employees and assets in the state of wisconsin and wisconsin had a fiscal crisis and we wanted to see it hopefully get turned around so it would be more business coming in. >> what is scott walker thinking he's getting from the koch

brothers? >> i don't understand your question. >> why does he take a call? hundreds, possibly thousands of people have been trying to speak to scott walker in that state. one of the koch brothers rings and immediately has from scott walker's%, even though it is an imposter, a very cordial and warm conversation. ? it wasn't david koch to begin with so this is an entirely false premise. >> it is not because scott walker clearly thinks it was. >> it clearly shows he did not know who david koch was or he would not have taken the call. you may want to get whoever that activist was that made the call to ask him about it. >> here's the question. the koch brothers fund a number of different entities, as you well know. 48 million from the charles koch foundation between 1998 and 200 aext 120 million from david koch foundation. 50 million from koch industries. 8. from koch pac. 80% of that money went to republicans. can you understand why many people feel that there is an

issue of transparency here? take, for example, scott walker. here's a man whose leadership is dividing that state. do you not think the people of that state deserve to know if that man is being supported bei financially by the koch brothers? >> that's the principal question. do you feel that the necessity of transparency is absolutely essential? >> we follow the rules on -- >> that's not what i'm asking. >> -- donations and transparency. you seem to have some facts and figures. scott walker, i wasn't involved in that, he was elected by the people of wisconsin. there's going to be a recall election. as far as who contributes and who doesn't contribute, i think both sides play by the same rules, the left and the right. the reality is we are very open and honest about what our views are. we have been for 50 years. david koch and charles koch. the book i just gave you -- let me finish -- >> i'm very grateful for the book and i'm very --

>> we are very open about our positions which is limited government, free markets, individual freedom, the bill of rights. we've held those beliefs for a long time, so for 47 years those weren't an issue, but apparently our political opponents object to them and they try to make a story. >> how much are you contributing to mitt romney's campaign? >> i don't know. i don't think anything. >> nothing? >> we're supposed to be talking about the attacks you've -- >> you had an opportunity to answer that question and they lead us to ask these questions. >> okay, ask them. >> and the questions about transparency. i have to go back, sir, and ask you, have the koch brothers contributed any money to mitt romney's campaign? >> i don't know. >> are they contributing to super pacs that are going to be supporting mitt romney? >> not to my knowledge. >> not to your knowledge. which of the congressional seats are the koch brothers planning to bombard with money? >> bombard with money?

i'm not prepared to talk about that. the way you've handled issues with us, the way the far right have handled issues with us, bombarding us with questions, like trahe trayvon martin issue. the koch brothers have received death threats. this is where this leads, and it's irresponsible. are you okay with that? >> no, i'm not, and i myself have been a victim of repeated death threats. i get your point, but here's the question. what the public wants to know is what the role of these two brothers is. we see their names emblazoned across wonderful theaters, like the new york city theatre of ballet, but we don't know what they do. when new jersey governor chris

christie flew out to vail to meet with one of the koch brothers for a secret seminar -- >> they're not secret. they're private. >> i'm willing to accept that, the word private. why wasn't there reference in mr. christie's own schedule that that was taking place? >> i don't know. you would have to ask mr. christie that. >> do you think the people of new jersey should know why their governor is traveling such a distance and meeting with two individuals who are not elected officials? don't you think the people of new jersey would like to know what the content of that conversation was? >> what conversation? >> the meeting that they had. >> i wasn't involved in that. >> i'm asking you imagine the position of a constituent who was elected governor who discovers the governor is going off to, your words, private meetings with the koch brothers

oz. don't you think the constituents have a right to know what the content of that meeting was, what the purpose of that meeting was? >> i think new jersey has a lot they've disclosed. i'm sure governor christie complied with them. i think there is another issue as well, mr. bashir. >> please. >> everyone calls for more and more disclosure, and then what happens is when disclosure comes out, there are more violent attacks against us, terror gets against our facility. >> so the fact that we have been begging for mr. charles or mr. david koch to come, indeed, many colleagues on my network have invited both individuals to any number of interviews. the reason they fail to do so is purely because they're afraid of being attacked, correct? >> first of all, they run a

business. it's a full-time job. they work every day of the week, basically. the other reality is, quite frankly, their ideas are what's important to them. their personalities, that's not what they do. the final thing is, quite frankly, coming on nbc, i don't think they feel they would be given fair treatment given what's happened in the past. >> you mean unfair questions? >> he would get asked unfair questions. they get accused of the typhoid mary in chicago that led to a shooting. that type of thing. >> thank you for coming back on. thank you for the book. and would you convey on behalf of myself and every one of my colleagues that we would welcome mr. charles or mr. david koch at any moment at their convenience. >> thank you very much. i appreciate t mait, martin. >> thank you, sir. stay with us. thank you, sir. god bless you.

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afternoon. donna summers, known around it is world as the queen of disco, has died today after a battle with cancer. her hits like "last dance," "hot stuff" and "i will survive," define the era of disco music. the singer has charted 22 number one hits. summers reportedly was keeping the serious nature of her condition quiet as she worked on another album as well as a broadway musical about her life. she is survived by her husband, bruce sadono, and her three daughters. donna summers was 63 years of age. ♪ the last dance, the last dance, last dance, last dance tonight ♪ >> thanks so much for watching. dylan ratigan is here to take us forward.