you are about to enter the "criminal mindscape" of joel rifkin. >> when you were strangle them, were you looking at them? >> some i were, some i wasn't, some i was looking out the window, some i was just staring off into space. >> he brutally strangles 17 women, dumping bodies and body parts all over the new york metropolitan area.

>> joel rifkin has told police he's a serial killer. >> as time progressed he was killing more women with greater frequency and still getting away with it. >> a reclusive loner, his bloody trail goes unnoticed for four bloody years. >> what about here, why did she do die? >> some nights i would be with two girls and then the third girl i would kill. >> killing was pretty much the only thing in his life he did well. >> now a veteran fbi profiler enters new york's state's largest maximum security prison and steps into the "criminal mindscape." every interview we do with an offender like joel gives us insight into how they think.

>> former fbi special agent mark safarik spent 12 years profiling violent criminals in the bureau's elite behavioral analysis unit. >> i'm interested in sort of the why question. why are you engaged in these different aspects? what are you feeling? you know, what's the drive? >> by confessing to the murders of 17 prostitutes, joel rifkin became the most prolific serial killer in new york state history. >> we want to delve deeper into his mind, his thinking, perceptions. >> rifkin is serving 203 years at the maximum security prison clinton security in upstate new york. >> when joel walked into the interview room, i got a general sense he felt very tense. he was looking around. he felt a little uncomfortable, a little anxious. >> i appreciate you agreeing to talk with me today.

>> oh, thanks, yeah. >> so, i know a lot about you. you probably don't know much about me. i spent 23 years with the bureau. and spent the last 12 years in the behavioral analysis unit, which is, i guess, what most people know as the profiling unit. >> right, thanks to tv. >> yeah, thanks to tv, right. >> i want to put him at ease. i want to develop a rapport with him so that, in essence, he trusts me, but he's clearly free to answer or not answer a question or leave the interview at any time. >> rifkin's rampage began and ended at the home he shared with his mother and sister in east meadow, long island. >> your mother's still alive, right? >> yes. >> does she ever visit you? >> yes. they come up once a year, my mom and my sister. spoke to my mom last night. >> did you? oh, good. she know you're doing this interview? >> yes.

she's not happy about it, but -- >> why? >> she thinks it just stirs the pot, brings all the old stuff back up. >> 34-year-old joel rifkin is a self-confessed serial killer on new york's long island. he may have murdered as many as 17 prostitutes. >> his crimes come to light if june 1993 when he is apprehended by new york state troopers patrolling long island's southern state parkway. >> approximately 3:00 in the morning. we came across a pickup truck traveling eastbound. they had no license plates on the vehicle. >> rifkin is on his way to republic airport on long island to dump the body of his 17th victim, tiffany bresciani. >> tiffany was a runaway from louisiana. a lot of girls come to the big city and get lost and get caught up in the underbelly of it. she was one of those. she ended up surviving by being

a prostitute. >> he picked her up in the east village and they drove down to what used to be the new york post parking lot. and he had trouble performing with her, which agitated him. obviously, he began strangling her. >> rifkin drives back to long island can tiffany's corpse and puts her in the family garage. >> it was so unusual for his sister or his mother to go anywhere near that garage, because the garage was very much like his room. it was all filled with his junk. >> three hot summer days passed before he gets around to disposing of the body. >> okay, joel, bresciani, last murder, she's decomposing. you have her in the back of your truck. >> right. >> and where are you going? >> i intended to go out east, and i ended up exiting toward the city.

and drove past the trooper car. then the christmas tree lit up. >> and he just opted to, you know, take flight and hope for the best. >> i can't even imagine knowing his personality that there probably wasn't even much more of a thought process than that. it was just sheer panic. >> we reached speeds up to 90 miles an hour. at one point, he put the truck up on two wheels so the driver's side of the vehicle was actually lifted off the ground. and i thought he was going to roll it over, and it was going to be, you know, over right there. >> eventually i crashed into a utility pole. which happened to be rotting on the bottom and it spiralled over the truck. >> we came running up to the vehicle and he just put his hands up like this. >> and then basically it was like, okay, you're going. okay, what am i going to do now? >> well, no, i got out of the

car and basically knelt down and got handcuffed. >> he said his his name was joel rifkin. we were trying to get the vehicle information and that's when we noticed this strong odor coming from the vehicle. >> i had my window down, and i'd say within a half a mile of the scene, i could smell the odor of a dead body. >> troopers discovered bresciani's decomposed corpse in the back of his truck. he was taken to farming dale. they were truck by his calm demeanor. >> we asked, have you done this before? he finally said 17. that put us all back in our seats. 17. i'll write it down for you. it might be easier for me to write it down. give me some papers and maps.

>> for the next few hours, rifkin details all 17 homicides for investigators. >> it was almost unbelievable. very factual, off the top of his head, with to hesitation, he wrote down that list and made his notes and sat there just like he was studying or writing a memoir. >> police obtained a search warrant for rifkin's mother's house. they search his bedroom and discover scores of items that he collected from his victims. >> when he was alone and he felt the need to relive these experiences, he would take these items and they would remind him of the crime and he would relive that sexual pleasure. >> driver's licenses, jewelry, earrings, aids medication. you know, there was just a trove of evidence, which directly linked him to so many murders. and a lot of these murders the police were not even aware of. >> when you were strangling them, what were you doing while you were strangling? were you looking at them? >> some i was, some i weren't,

some i was holding down, some i was looking out the window, some i was just staring off into space. >> joel is a psychopath, which i think allows him to be successful as being a serial killer. that is he doesn't have any empathy for his victims. he doesn't feel any remorse. so it allows him to take these women, to kill them, and simply really go on about his life without having, you know, any change in his behavior. >> when you looked in their faces, what did you see? >> deer trapped in headlight look. just that stare. >> did you like that look? >> not necessarily, because i would have looked more often. >> it is a personality disorder. it is not a mental health disease. psychopaths understand the

difference right and wrong. they just simply chose to do wrong. >> how did you feel when you were doing it? >> i really didn't remember it since that time. didn't have any thought that i could recall of that time. >> he sees his victims just simply as objects. they're objects to satisfy needs he had. when he's done with them, he simply discards them like trash. coming up -- >> we know what you were doing. >> right. >> i'm asking you why. why did you go back? how did it make you feel to be with the prostitutes? >> just a lot less tense. a lot less lonely. >> what about control? [ female announcer ] with swiffer wet

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before turning to serial murder, joel rifkin led a very oral life. >> i think people want to see

all serial killers as sort of the charlie mansons or the richard ramirezes, those guys that really look like they're on the fringe. but oftentimes they're not. they're guys that look very much like you and i. >> in 1959 joel is adopted by an upper middle class long island couple. >> from a very young age, joel tried to measure up to his father in some ways, but just, you know, perpetually fell short. that was a great source of disappointment for him. >> young joel also doesn't fit in with other children. afflicted by severe dyslexia and lack of athletic skill and coordination, he becomes the constant target of bullies. >> i just happened to bring out the bully in people. >> because you think they saw you as a target, an easy target? >> yeah, yeah. >> how did you cope with this,

as you describe this, sort of incessant taunting? >> i absorb it. one day at a time, sort of thing. i got someplace, either just at time or slightly late because if you hung around in front of the school, that's when you had your problems. i used to stay late after school. everybody was home. better time to walk home. >> did you find yourself withdrawing into yourself? >> yeah, i did a lot of things by myself. >> he would spend hours upon hours in his room. he would collect fossils and rocks and he would categorize them. >> in his solitude, joel con jurs a world of fantasy that turns sinister. >> at age 11 or 12 he's developing intense sexual fantasies of women being dominated, women being abused. joel also described what he called gladiatorial fantasies

where women were fighting over him and he was the prize. actually consciously recognized that you enjoyed having these violent fantasies or thoughts? you describe this gladiator scenario of girl fights girl to the death, right? >> yeah, it went to that point at times. >> am i mischaracterizing that? >> no, there were times it went to death, times it went to submission. >> did it involve sex? >> no. as a teen you know about sex. yeah, it exists but what is it? so it was hard to plug that in. >> when joel hit adolescence, i think things even got worse because he developed an interest in girls who, obviously, had no interest in him. >> after high school, joel plans to study journalism. but he is ashameded to go away to college a virgin.

he drives into new york city to pick up a prostitute. >> that's a very unusual event, to go out, strike out on your own, to go see a prostitute when you're 17, 18 years old. rather than having had sexual encounter with a girl that you know. but joel didn't see it that way. >> do you remember your first woman you were ever with? >> yeah. >> you do? what do you remember about that? >> they're not shy about their occupation in the city, right? it's right up front. she approached me. you looking for a date? yeah, kind of. what's the deal? she named the prices. that was it. >> rifkin visits more prostitutes to fill the emptiness of his life. he quickly becomes addicted to the experience. >> even after he had sex with somebody, he would still troll around the five boroughs. he liked looking at them. you know, he didn't just like being with them, he liked being

with them. it was all-consuming addiction for him. >> rifkin drops out of college. he moves back in with his parents, barely supporting himself with odd jobs. all of his time and money go to feed his addiction. >> how did it make you feel to go? because ultimately you kept doing this. >> right. >> on and on and on -- >> it went from an occasional, you know, tension reliever, just curiosity to, yeah, every paycheck. right. there was a time where, if i cashed my check on a thursday, i had to get a full tank of gas that day, get whatever errands i had to do done before friday because by monday, it would be, you got five bucks so i can get a tank of gas? >> we know what you were doing. i'm asking you why. why did you go back? how did it make you feel to be

with the prostitutes? >> just a lot less tense, a lot less lonely. >> what about control? what about controlling the event? >> no. it was -- they were more in control than i was. >> he never saw himself as being in control, even though he had the money, he was making the choices, he could say yes on no. i wanted to see if he recognized that control for him was not only part of his fantasies but part of the relationships that he was, you know, having with these different prostitutes. >> rifkin's fantasies soon turned more violent. he can't stop thinking about killing one of the women he patronizes. >> there was the same fantasies, sometimes expanded. there was also the killing fantasy that would come in and out. >> what is that fantasy? >> strangulation fantasies. >> tell me about that. what is a strangulation fantasy? >> sort of like out of the movie "frenzy" and thing like that.

how would one do that? what would that be like? i'd run through scenarios. and then dismiss it. i don't know. with strangulation there seemed to be an intimacy to it, there's contact. >> yeah, of course there is. >> one night in march 1989, rifkin's murderous dreams finally twist into reality 37. >> he had been with hundreds of prostitutes leading up to that night. he pretty much fantasized about killing every single one of them when he was with them. he never thought he would do it. he never thought he would act on it. >> he drives to a stroll, the area where street prostitutes work. on manhattan's lower east side and picks up a young drug-addicted woman named susie. >> his mother is away on a business trip. he drives her out to long island

to the home he grew up in, where he played with his sister, where he still lives with his mother. he plans on just having sex, although this fantasy of killing somebody is in his head like it always is. >> we were going back to stroll. she wanted a cop again. so i took her to the drug spot. then i still wanted to do something with her, so we went out to the house. she got high in the bathroom again. >> he has sex with susie. she wants to sleep. she wants more drugs. she wants more money. you know, she's not cooperating. >> you've been with her for quite a while, as you describe, 10 to 11 hours. and she essentially has really been much more interested in getting drugs than -- >> yeah, getting drugs and sleeping. >> getting drugs and sleeping? >> yep. any spots around here we can get

something? >> drugs? >> yeah. no, we have to go back to the city. i don't know anyplace out here. we get ready to leave and that's when i hit her. >> rifkin picks up a souvenir artillery shell and hits susie in the head, again and again. >> and i'm wondering, is this sort of the straw that broke the camel's back? all night long he's been getting her drugs and, you know, catering to her, and she hasn't really been catering to him. is this like, i'm exasperated at this point, i'm tired of dealing with her. >> coming up -- >> i'm watching, you're seeing this event happening. >> right. >> you're reliving this, right? >> oh, yeah. >> i'm trying to figure -- >> i can play back the videotape. ♪ lord, you got no reason ♪ you got no right

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prostitute backs to his family home and brutally murders her. >> the first homicide for him is really important. there's a reason that he consciously decided this particular prostitute has to die and not the one i was with the day before. >> it's kind of a rageful event, to grab an artillery shell and hit somebody in the head. >> yeah. i don't think there was any decisive trigger point. it just -- >> that's what i'm wondering. is it a culmination of the whole night of this constant, get me drugs and -- in other words, i don't know, are your needs being met? through this whole night, or are you just sort of the gopher? >> well, i was the gopher, to use that word, other nights. >> after bludgeoning susie with the metal shell, rifkin finally acts out his strangulation fantasy. >> one arm was around her head.

the other arm was underneath the arm. so chin/neck area. >> so you were smothering her with your forearm? >> yeah. >> after putting up a fierce battle for her life, susie finally expires. joel panics. >> he's convinced that the cops are going to come charging through the door. he's checking the window, checking the blinds. but eventually he calms himself down, goes to sleep for a few hours. >> how did you feel after you were done killing her? what was that feeling like? >> when i woke up, i was like, did it or did it not happen? i wasn't -- i remember going down in the basement realizing, okay, we did do something. i remember poking her to see if she would wake up. >> did you sleep well? >> yeah. >> did you normally sleep well? >> yeah. fell out for about six hours. >> first homicide? >> yep. >> then what happened to her?

you woke up, went down -- >> thought for several hours how to get her out of the house. >> the next morning he proceeds to dismember the body and put different parts of the body in plastic bags. >> what did you do with her? >> caught up with the idea of small packages, easy to hide, easy to make go away, easy to take out with the trash. >> what made you decide to do that, to take that route? it's messy. it takes a lot of time. >> just as i had said. make everything as small as possible. make it all disappear. that's the overwhelming thought i had. >> he takes the bags containing susie's remains and scatters them in both new york and new jersey. >> he go to extraordinary lengths in his first homicide to make sure that this victim isn't

found. but even if she had been found, it's very unlikely there's any way she would have ever been linked back to joel. >> almost immediately, joel returns to seeing prostitutes. he vows to himself to not kill again. but each time, he relives in his mind the act of killing susie. each time, he feels the urge to kill. >> once joel committed his first murder, it can be described that he, in essence, hatched and this killer -- suddenly he went from frequenter to prostitutes to an out-and-out killer. >> so then there's this extended period of time. what's going on in that 18 months? are you fantasizing? did you think back on susie? >> well, that was -- yeah, that whole night would just keep repeating. some nights it was terrifying.

other nights it was pleasant, it was exhilarating. the moments of terror, you know, just -- it ran its course. >> why would it be terrifying? >> oh, i was still in denial that i even did it at times. >> you're seeing this happening. >> well, i'm trying to -- also that and remember what came after as far as -- >> i mean, i'm watching. you're seeing this -- >> right. >> -- event happening. you're reliving this right -- >> oh, yeah. >> trying to figure out -- >> i can play back the videotape. >> yeah, of course you can. >> almost 20 years later. >> yeah. i have no doubt you can play it back. >> yep. >> this is part of the reliving process for him, is this ability to play back these murders in his mind. he sees each one of them. he knows each one of them. not only does he see himself doing it, but i think it's arousing to him, it's exciting to him. he won't admit it. he keeps that fairly flat

aaffect when he's talking to you but he has that ability to do that and he's probably done it many times. coming up -- >> would you like it? how does it make you feel to strangle her? this is a very powerful time, a time when essentially they're controlling the life of the victim. they're playing god. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this.

after strangling a young prostitute to death, budding serial killer joel rifkin spends months reliving the grisly event before killing again. >> maybe joel hadn't reached the compulsion to kill again hadn't reached a zenith to act out again. sometimes it's years or weeks. but for him it was 18 months. >> in late 1990 joel picks up julie blackbird under the manhattan bridge. his mother is again out of town, so they drive back to east meadow and julie spends the night. >> yeah, she slept some of that time, took a shower some of that time, watched tv. >> kind of like a relationship. >> hanging out, killing time. >> yeah, like friends. >> yeah. >> if you didn't know who you

were listening to and what the outcome was, you would believe that they were a couple, you know, on a date. >> before driving her back to the city, joel agrees to go to an atm machine with withdraw extra money for julie. >> we were leaving and i hit her from behind once and then strangled her. >> why did you hit her? >> probably to stop her. >> but why, why did -- >> motivating? >> yeah, why? >> i'm not asking, you know, why did you hit -- i know you hit her so that you could incapacity her. that's clear. i'm asking you the why. what was the reason that you hit her? he just -- that just completely escapes him. >> i mean, what does she do? you have brought other prostitutes back to your mother's house that you didn't kill. >> right. >> had she done anything that you can think of, you know, over that five or six hours that culminated in something that -- >> no. just basically decided, you

know, to do it. >> i'm sure there is something in there that's related to, you know, finally i'm just not going to take anymore from these people that are essentially walking all over me, and i'm going to strike out. >> and then what happened? you hit her with the table leg. >> hit her, strangled her. >> did you like it? how does that make you feel to strangle her? >> i wasn't really aware of liking it. it was more of, i wanted it done. i wanted it over with. and that point had passed and i was still strangling her. >> strangulation takes minutes

of considerable pressure on the neck to actually cause somebody to die, so there is an extended period of time in which you are essentially face to face with your victim. and for many offenders, this is a very powerful time. it's a time when essentially they're controlling the life of the victim. they're playing god. >> do you recall feeling anything? did you like the control? did you like the power you had over her? >> wasn't aware of it at the time. >> okay. are you aware of it now? >> i think of it because it's been mentioned. you're not the first one to mention it. >> when you ask a psychopath, well, how did you feel about that? they -- they sort of rock back because they don't really know how they felt about it because they didn't feel anything. >> rifkin dismembers julie blackbird and puts her body parts in cement-filled containers.

he has a different disposal plan this time. throwing julie's remains in the waterways surrounding manhattan. >> were you ever concerned about getting stopped by the police, you know, with all these body parts in your car? i mean, was it ever a concern? >> no. >> no. if they had stopped you, would they have seen the body parts? >> depending on when. most of everything was in the trunk. there was what looked like a bucket of cement on the passenger side. >> months pass. when his mother is out of town, rifkin brings a number of prostitutes home to east meadow, but he doesn't harm any of them. then, in july 1991, he picks up 31-year-old barbara jacobs, his darkest urges are again threatening to rage out of control. >> and i remember sitting in the living room for a while, debating if i should just

fantasize or if i should actually strangle her. and i remember debating it for a while. >> you're debating whether to fantasize about strangling her or go ahead -- >> or to actually do it, yeah. >> there comes a point where, well, i can get the first videotape to stop if there's a second one. if there's a third, they all jumble together, they won't make sense and i can make it stop. >> on he's sort of saying i did it so i could stop doing them. but what i see happening is he's doing them because he likes doing it. it makes him feel good and doesn't have anything to do with stopping. >> this time he hits her with the same type of object that he killed julie black bst bird with. he hits her hard enough to pretty much render her semiconscious and then he sort of takes his time strangling her.

and watching her expire. >> rifkin dumps jacobs' body in the hudson river, but he's careless about the spot hes coulds. >> barbara's body was discovered within a couple of hours after he dumped it by firefighters who were training, but for joel, that wasn't even a concern anymore because he was getting emboldened by the fact that nobody was linking him to any of these homicides. >> he was getting good at this. and getting relaxed about it. >> somewhere around the third, fourth or fifth, i'm beginning to, on one level like, okay, there's something going on. i've done this more than once. i keep thinking about it. so, i started going into the bookstores and the libraries, trying to find answers. and one of the books i got at

the time was the search for the green river killer. what the book turned out to be was not just reporting on that case, but it became also a how-to. >> i think that joel recognized what he was, and he was trying to relate to it in terms of, you know, like i'm not the only person that's doing this. are you saying you kept things because you read this in the book? >> yeah. the book said keep things, so i started keeping things. >> i mean, those were clearly things that could link you to any number of the victims. >> yep. i don't know. there were things that made sense. there are things that didn't make sense. >> i think he doesn't have an explanation because he really did use those items. he used them to fantasize about the crimes, to essentially relive those events. -n his mind. competent didn't want to get rid

of them. coming up -- >> the fact she said, i want to die, do you think she was just at a low point? you don't think she really wanted to die, do you? >> i always put it in terms, if she didn't, she would have fought more. no fighting at all. no wriggling at all. just do it. wake up! that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8.

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rifkin picks up 22-year-old mary ellen doluca. >> she's interested in really nothing other than getting high. she has joel taking her to different locations. he's incapable of just, you know, demanding what he wants or telling her, now it's my time to be taken care of. >> after chasing drugs with her for ten hours, joel finally convinces mary ellen to accompany him to a motel rom. >> no sex, she didn't want to do sex? >> no. when she finally agreed, it was on very limited her terms type of thing. >> how did that make you feel? >> i went with it. then she started crying and carrying on. i just came from rehab, i can't be doing this anymore. my life is is crap. i wish i was dead. my boyfriend's going to break up with me. i just grabbed her and -- from

the front and strangled her. and the weird thing with her is, she put up the least resistance of anybody. >> why do you think that is? >> i think she was just at a very, very low point in her life. she was maybe suicidal, in what she was saying. she just had had it. >> why did you kill her? >> she was probably out of frustration. i was hearing echoes of how my month and week had just gone, you know. >> joel's listening to her and he's feeling exactly the same thing. his whole life is, you know, not going right. how dare she really complain about all of this when i'm feeling this? and now she says, oh, she wants to die. and i think joel's basically like, well, i'm just going to oblige her. >> the fact she said, i want to die, do you think she was just at a low point? you don't think she really wanted to die, do you? >> if she did, she would have fought more. no wriggling at all.

just do it, about the attitude i got back from her. >> he dumps her body in the woods 60 miles north of new york city. this time, it doesn't take long for him to strike again. >> as time went on, i think what he really had was an addiction to the intoxicating excitement that he got from the perpetration of homicide through strangulation. >> a few weeks later he picks up 30-year-old eun lee during daylight hours and strangles her in his car. >> the intervals between the murders was decreasing. so that the more he did, the more he enjoyed it he saw how easy it was for him to do this. and there was no reason for him to wait.

by the winter of 1991, the pace of the killing accelerates dramatically. over the next 16 months, he claims 11 more victims. it was like a run away train. >> he couldn't stop at this point. >> most are strangled in his car and then dumped in the waters surrounding new york city. all by two remains are recovered. but they draw no connection between the homicides. >> he became cavalier about it. there was an instance of him driving into a gas station after killing a victim and having the body sitting up in the seat. >> so he put in trunks and put in rivers. other people he dug little graves for them. there was one victim he left by kennedy airport underneath a mattress.

he was confident he wasn't going to be caught. >> all that changed on the night of june 28th, 1993. two weeks after confessing to 17 mom sides, joel rifkin pleads not guilty to the murder of brittany. >> you are talking about 17 young women who aren't here anymore. i never thought to use aspirin for muscle pain.

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in the spring of 1994, joel rifkin goes on trial for the murder of tiffany breshiani, his final victim. he pleads not guilty by reason of insanity. >> we had to litigate the deaths of all 17 young women to show the jury that his was not the

workings of somebody who didn't know what they were doing or didn't realize it was wrong. but instead, the workings of a mind that was very calculating and very intensional. he knew very well that it was wrong and he took extraordinary steps to prevent himself from being caught. >> the jury needs just two and a half hours to reach a verdict. >> as some count one, murder in the second degree what is your verdict? >> guilty. >> the evidence of this guilt was very strong with the dead body in the back of his car. and the insanity defense was so poor and weak that i never expected a jury to give it much consideration other than a few minutes to decide that there is nothing there. >> rifkin is given the maximum sentence of 25 year to life. >> if he hadn't been caught that night on the expressway, if you had been able to bump the body,

we wouldn't be talking about 17, we would be talking about 23, or 28, you know, i don't think he would have stopped. do you? >> i had a plan to. >> well you had a plan to after number one. >> yeah, but now i was taking physical steps. whether the plan would have worked. >> what were the steps? >> i was about to see down south little part onto west virginia getting a cabin out in the woods and surviving. now if you have $100, it has to be survival money, you can't go play at the truck stops, if you do, you don't eat for a week. >> no, but you would have driven into a town and found a stroll. you would have needed it. that is where you were operating. you would have had to do it.

you could have been living in a cabin, but you wouldn't have stayed in the cabin. do you really think you would have? >> well, that is again, one of the lies that you tell yourself. >> i think he is acknowledging that, that need still exists. it is a need driven behavior that he feels that he has to have. he felt it for 17 times, if he hadn't been caught, he would have continued, he would have just continued until he was caught. >> over the next 19 months, rifkin pleads guilty to the murders of seven more women i want you to know that i am sorry to what i have done to you and your daughters. i ask you to believe me i will never understand the part of me that caused me to do theaters these terrible things to your children. >> mr. rifkin, i want to be sure

that you spend your second life in prison also. >> today, rifkin is housed in a special unit of the prison for high risk and high profile in mates. he claims to feel more at home in prison than he ever did in the free world. >> it has nothing to do with celebrity because there are plenty of others in that facility as well. but because there are so many sexual offenders, nobody looks at him as if he is particularly deviant. >> how are you doing, what is going on here? >> programs like everybody else. right now i'm in the tailor shop. >> do you get hassled here at all? >> no, not really. can you sign this more me. can you draw something for me. that would be a greater in population.

the believe that anything serial killer related is worth something. >> did you ever see any of the women that you killed as individuals? >> more so now, yeah. >> how? >> okay, brishiani i think was 22. so at 38, would she still be hitting the pipe or would she have family now? what are the odds of her taking a career life, a family life, getting out of the street thing she was in. >> right but does that matter to you? >> at times it does. yeah. >> when it comes to those people, i think intellectually he knows he did wrong and he knows he should feel bad. but as far as having feelings, he is devoid of them. >> he doesn't see them as people having feelings or being related