party should fight got fight of economic fairness why aren't people saying they should take up the cause of those who make the most of unfair laws whob benefit in annerned income treated in capital gains, benefit from money made off money, made from money off of goods and delivering services. the question for democrats, especially big ones on television is, where their primary loyalty liees. whom do they fear upsetting the most, the leader of their party or people in the financial industry. just hate it when democrats say outloud what they long claim is their party mer taj, to look out for the people that need looking out for the most. and that's "hardball" for new. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> welcome to "politicsnation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, a troubling decision by the mitt romney campaign for president. folks, the romney campaign's defense of his work at bain capital is veering into

unacceptable territory. there is something we need to talk about tonight. and i want it start with a simple question. what is a lie? according to webster's dictionary, to lie is quote, to make an untrue statement with intent to deceit. to create a false or misleading impression. romney's campaign is now saying that criticizing his work at bain is the same thing as attacking the free market. that criticizing romney is like attacking capitalism itself. president obama, is against capitalism. last night, governor romney issued a statement saying, quote, president obama confirmed today that he will continue his attacks on the free enterprise system. end of quote. and today, his campaign held a conference called to repeat that message. >> i am amazed at listening to president obama and vice president biden attacking free

enterprise in general. and their specific attacks on bain. when you attack free enterprise, you're attacking the american way of life. >> and there's one big problem with this new message from romney. it's not true. not true at all. at best, it's a distortion. or just false. knowingly false. let's look at what president obama has actually said about free markets. >> the free market is the greatest force for economic progress in human history. it's led to prosperity and standard of living unmatched by the rest of the world. >> does that sound like an attack on free enterprise? what about this? >> i believe the free market is the greatest force for economic progress in human history. >> the greatest force. how is that an attack on free enterprise? what about this? >> from our first days as a

nation, we have put our faith in free markets and free enterprise. >> in point of fact, president obama has been making one specific point about romney's record at bain. that it was great for his investors, but not appropriate preparation for someone who wants to be president. >> my view of private equity is that, it is -- it is set up to maximize profits. and that's a healthy part of the free market. when you're president, as opposed to the head after private equity firm, then your job is not simply to maximize profits. your job is to figure out how everybody in the country has a fair shot. if your main argument for how to grow the economy is, i knew how to make a lot of money for

investors, then you're missing what this job is about. that doesn't -- it doesn't mean you weren't good at private equity. but that's not what my job is as president. >> so when the romney campaign comes out and accuses the president of attacking free enterprise, they're not being straight with you. they're not being honest. this is not a matter of he said, he said. it's a matter of what he said. and what he said is misleading. i think it's important for voters and for journalists kup covering this campaign to examine this attack carefully and decide, is this just regular campaign back and forth, or is this attack something more troubling? is it an out and out lie? that should be called out for what it is?

joining me now is bob shrum. his column for the week magazine is about romney and bain. and chip sauceman, former campaign manager for mike huckabee. thank you both for joining me. >> glad to be here. >> good to be with you. >> bob let me start with you. did i get anything wrong in that interim? >> no. i was thinking that i kwb for example, could criticize the executive at j.p. morgan chase who just lost $3 billion and say, that's a bad business record. that doesn't mean i'm attacking the free enterprise system or business. there are good businesses and bad businesses. what a happened with romney is he put this forward this business credential. i created sometimes 10,000 jobs, sometimes a hundred thousand jobs. no one substantiated the figure. and said, i would like to be president because of that. then as we did in the kennedy campaign for the senate geps m

against romney, you found workers, where it wasn't venture cal tap, it was vulture capitalism. going in yb loading it up with debt, taking millions in fees and then letting it go broke. this is the beginning after narrative art that says this guy is a candidate of the few, by the few and for the few. >> chip, it seems like this is part of the talking points that they are using against the president. let's look at mitch moncconnell senate ma nort leader, what he said about president obama today. he says the whole notion of earned success and capitalism seems to be under attack by this administration across the board. >> well i think what is important here is not to look at the president's words, but look at his actions. i think if you look at his administration the last couple of years, it is increased regulation, increased taxes, increasingly harder for small business or big business to be successful because you are

constantly fighting the federal government to get your job done. that is an attack on capitalism. i think that's fair game. >> but you are doing that same, chip, having record profits. having a business grow in leaps and bounds. so you need more regulation. but explain to me -- >> just because you have record profits doesn't mean more regulation. i disagree with you. >> fine we can disagree on that, but let's stay on the subject. explain to me about how having regulation and having some kind of boundary for corporation makes you anti-free enterprise and anti-capitalism. >> we are seeing more and more regulation. if you are a small business and you have to deal with let's say obamacare, you are now spending most of your time dealing with federal paperwork as opposed to selling your product or growing your business. >> how is that anti-capitalism in. >> i have talked to those small businesses. i talked to though folks. it is more strug tell fight the federal government than to do

their job and grow their business. >> chip, let me just ask you direct. are you saying the president is anti-free enterprise and anti-capitalism? >> i think some of the actions the president is taking during his first term certainly are. >> well, bob -- >> this is ridiculous. i like chip, but he didn't answer the question. maybe he understands there isn't a good defense for romney on a lot 6 this stuff. that having someone like john is a he is new nu /* /- -- sanun you blajer on. you're right, this is the worst blow since the great depression. he are not all the way back back but companies are making record profits. i might suggest that j.p. morgan chase example i gave a short while ago where someone went and gambled away at least $3 billion and maybe more, suggest that we need some of that wall street regulation.

to talk about healthcare in this context or health reform in this context is simply ridiculous. the most ownrous requirements on small businesses and businesses dealing with health insurance come from the private health insurance industry. obamacare, if it goes into effect will is actually simplify that. >> let me say -- all right, let's look at this. if you look at how people are dealing with these issues, chip, unfairness and economic systems, 56%. over regulation of free market, 34%. there are people in this country that have just come out of hard times are much more concerned about unfairness than they are about regulation. are they anti-free enterprise? are the people anti-capitalism? >> of course not. that's not my point. the point is there is still a lot of small businesses and big business out there that are struggling to get by. they are trying to help this economy recover. and like i said, many times on the short, we all hope the

economy gets better. that's around republican issue or democratic. >> correct. >> some of the folks and i think president obama is one of them, they think the answer is more government regulation to lead the way. i believe it is the fre enterprise. get government out of the way and let people do what they do best -- >> but that's a difference. why does he have to be anti-free enterprise, anti-capitalism. let me tell you why i'm bringing this up, chip. because i think it speaks it a wider strategy of trying to make the president unamerican, maybe wasn't born here. i think this leads it this whole subliminal message that the republicans are trying to sell, that there is something unamerican about this president. and i'll tell you why, because when you you had people this your own primary, saying the same things about romney, vulture capitalists and all, no one said they were anti-capitalist or anti-free

enterprise. why does the president have to be anti-free enterprise, anti-free capitalism. you didn't see that about grinning rich or huntsman or about mr. romney -- yes, mr. romney liking it fire people. there is a subliminal message here, are we really trying to sell the american people. >> i certainly hope not. i disagree with president obama a lot. but i do think he is an american and i disagree with the path he is trying to take. i think he is a person that believes more in government than the private sector. i couldn't disagree with that more p more. but i don't think you can win by bashing the president and you respect the office and that's what we are trying to do. >> bob, am i right or wrong? i think the broad brushing the president. we can disagree on regulations but how does he become unamerican or anti-capitalism or

anti-free enterprise. >> well, chip isn't suggesting that. but it is what the romney campaign is doing. make the president alien other different, and throughout the whole course of this conversation, one of the most interesting things to me is that chip doesn't come back and defend romney's business record. it may turn out that romney doesn't have a good defense for his business record and that's going to lead tus a place where we say, the guy who took away people's health benefits is the guy who wants to end medicare as we know it. the guy who decimated jobs in the private sector. the archive i think is pretty powerful. >> let me skau quick question then i have to go. when you ran ted kennedy's campaign, he ran bain, did he have a -- >> no, he spent days evading the issue. >> maybe that's why we are try changing the subject with obama. just maybe. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks.

ahead, comparing attacks on romney's job killing pass to the right. coming up. plus the president of fox news said we still don't know anything about president obama. really? now we know where the vetting tack is coming from. and a imagine being behind bars for 20 years for a crime you never committed. we'll meet a man freed after two decades in jail and show you a new report on how broken our justice system is. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. kiwi. soy milk. impulse buy. gift horse. king crab. rhubarb pie. lettuce shower. made by bees. toucan sam. that's not cheese. grass fed. curry. gingersnaps. soup can tower. 5% cash back.

right now, get 5% cash back at grocery stores. it pays to discover.

gop is still buzzing about

cori booker bain comments. but the bain bashing starting in their own party. queue up those tapes. that's next. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption. oh. let's go. from the crack, off the backboard. [ laughs ] dad! [ laughs ] whoo! oh! you're up! oh! oh! so close! now where were we? ok, this one's good for two. score! [ male announcer ] share what you love with who you love. kellogg's frosted flakes. they're gr-r-eat!

republican party still dealing with cory booker's bain comment. if they think the meet the press with delegit ma advertise the president's argument but they are forgetting something. republicans started the bain attacks. i'm serious. here, watch for yourself. >> we need to have more venture capitalism going on in america

and less vulture capitalism. >> you really believe this country want to elect a wall street financer of the president of the united states. you think that's the experience we need. someone to taken a look after he as he did, his friends on wall street and bail them out at the expense of main street america? >> the fact is, he is not prepared to release any documents from bain it prove anything. so we have no idea what his net job creation was. >> governor romney claims to have created a hundred thousand jobs at bain and people want to know, is there proof of that claim? >> when people can point to where you made a quick profit, and kick people out of their jobs, that is an issue that's got to be addressed. >> this is romney's biggest problem. the backbone of his campaign is already been destroyed. by his own party.

joining me now is steve korna i kornacki. he is writing about booker he apology. and dana milbank. thanks to both of you for your time tonight. >> sure. thanks, reverend. >> steve, republicans are using booker to go after the president but what will they say about all of the republicans attacking romney for all of the last few months? >> the same idea of george w. bush. you pretend it never happen pepd by you look at the clips from this year. you can look at clips from every election that mitt romney has ever run, for 1994 on, against republicans and against democrats, whichever party they are from, they notice this chief of. john mccain invoked.

it was his primary for the u.s. senate in 1949 when he was running against a venture capital guy. other than that, everybody brings it up. >> so, dana, when we hear romney defending himself, and he had to defend himself against a big attack on this with newt gingrich, let me show you this, back in january. he was defending himself in a debate against an attack by newt gingrich. >> the specific cases where bain capital's model, to take over a can company and dramatically leverage it. leave it with a great deal of debt, leaving it less likely to survive. it started because he excited his business as key format of president. >> creating 120,000 jobs as of today. we started them years ago. they have grown well behind the time ways there, to 120,000 people employed by those

enterprises. others we have been with, some have last jobs. i'm proud of the fact that throughout my career i have worked it try and build enterprises. hopefully to return money to investors. there's nothing wrong with profit, by the way. >> now, two things about that, dana, that i want you to comment on. one, he has a cute way of saying we had four businesses that have grown now to 120,000. never real hey saying how much they have grown while he was still at bain. and under his leadership. that calls himself a job creator. he says building until now. well, how many of them did you create, since you call yourself a creator. other thing is, that what is missing here, which is bothersome to me, is they don't attack other republicanes who have raised even more serious and direct questions about bain and his activity as anti-capitalism, anti-free enterprise. only the president. are they trying to send a

subliminal anti-american message on the president, i.e., strategy and other things they have done so far this year? >> certainly, reverend, there's been a pattern for them doing this sort of thing. in fairness, there was a little bit of push back during pry mare res. saying to fellow republicans, you will regret what you are doing right now in terms of suggesting that this was an anti-capitalist line. so they did sort of lay that predicate out there right now. i think what you've got here is this, you know, sort of seasoning on the cory booker thing. it is not quite parallel to being hit by newt gingrich, rick perry, rick santorum. these are names americans recognize. when you hear cory booker, he is an accomplished guy, but a lot of americans will say, who is that? this is the way that -- it's really the only card that romney, that republicans can play, to go at this vulnerability app ultimately it won't be what cory booker said

or newt gingrich, it'll be the merits of the subject at hand. and romney is his own worst enemy on this. because he is constantly saying things like, i enjoy being able to fire people. >> now, steve, as dana mentioned, mayor cory booker, last night our network. cory booker complained about the gop's distortion of his words and this is the only issue they seem to want it stand with him on. watch this. >> anyone watching the entire "meet the press", not only was i defending obama's position on issues but i also talked about super pac and my outrage and frustration about the cenacle negative campaigning. manipulating of the truth. so here they are, plucking sound bites out of that interview to manipulate them in a cynical manner, to use them for their own purposes. and that slogan is really what had me and basically my entire staff really fit to be tied.

if anybody listens to the entire "meet the press" and they want it stand with me, they will see that i stand firmly with the president. >> in fairness to mayor booker, who i know and have worked with him, and will continue to work with, when i did the question, what was he thinking saying this, if you look at the full context of what he said, let's play when a said, he was concerned about more than bain. >> there kind of stuff is nauseating to me on both sides. it's nauseating to the american public. enough is enough. stop attacking private equity. stop attacking jeremiah wright. this stuff has got to stop. what it does, it undermines to me what country should focus on. either a small campaign about this crap or a big campaign, in my opinion, about issues that the americans care about. >> so steve, you have covered mayor booker. but i think he was concerned about more than bain. but i absolutely disagree with

him that comparing bain and whether or not romney's a job creator who he made this the centerpiece of his campaign is the same thing as some outside group bringing in reverend jeremiah wright. i think he misspoke making that comparison in why he is nauseated. because you are deal with one guy, whose the centerpiece of his campaign, is a job with bain. and another with an issue dealt with four years ago. >> i think he copped to saying, i made a false equivalency. what i have a problem with what he did last night, he didn't engage with the part of the "meet the press" interview, he pointed out bain. that's basically what he said on there. it wasn't just about the tone. he singled out bain. i think it is clear to me, i followed booker going back ten years now.

this is a guy who has a deep and personal, fund-raising history. they bank rolled his first can campaign. they'll be key to any statewide campaigns he has in the future. he is very can comfortable talking their language. i don't think he fully realized how much the melt down in 2008 changed the democratic party wh it comes to those relationships with wall street. i think last night that's a guy doing damage control and it is slippery to be honest with you. >> you say he was slippery and he has connections to the crowd, the baines capital -- >> absolutely. he represent -- in way, he represent the heart of the democratic party was in clinton years. robert ruben, goldman sachs, an alliance coming up between the democratic party and wall street. booker's rise came in the last part of the last decade. he is very good at it. but he ult vated those ties. he raised a lot of money, even money from bain. and again, i think the melt down

really changed where the heart of the democratic party is. people don like those ties. they are not comfortable with them any more. i don't think booker was fully preprepared or fully realized that. >> the issue with bain and the issue was brought up by romney, using bain as his example of his being a job creator. when you, in a poll, where people were asked whether they believe -- what they believe romney's motivation was at bain, 57% of the people believe profits. 12% say job creation and only 25% say both equally. mr. romney has never broken down, after all of these attacks by all of his opponents during the republican primary and subsequent attack since then, he still has not broken down how he was a job creator at bain. is that not fair game for the opponent, incoming president, and public. and if we are going to be

responsible in the media, for us to say, you need to put up or shut up. >> reverend, i think the whole subject is fair game. i've been preaching for a long time about how ugly our politics are getting. but the parallel to reverend wright to say, well it would be disgusting to go after romney's mormon religion. i think that's the parallel there. this is a matter of substance that needs to be litigated out there. you know, the problem here, i was at a hearing on capital hill for j.p. morgan. people were saying, is there a new wave of regulation? forget it. both parties in this town are largely controlled by corporations. when the president makes one small gesture and raises a question about whether this particular company is doing something in the best interest of the can company, well that's against the entire free market system. just a very strange sort of argument. >> very strange. steve, you heard dana say he's been preaching. and you thought i wouldn't

influence people. steve c steven corps knacky and dana milbank, thank you. t there. t there. - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know.

♪ power surge, let it blow your mind. [ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8.

i'm here to unleash my inner cowboy. instead i got heartburn. [ horse neighs ] hold up partner. prilosec isn't for fast relief. try alka-seltzer. it kills heartburn fast. yeehaw! that bringing you better technology helps make you a better investor. with our revolutionary new e-trade 360 dashboard you see exactly where your money is and what it's doing live. our e-trade pro platform offers powerful functionality that's still so usable you'll actually use it. and our mobile apps are the ultimate in wherever whenever investing. no matter what kind of investor you are, you'll find the technology to help you become a better one at e-trade.

so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories.

a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind. ♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates. the day starts with arthritis pain... a load of new listings... and two pills. after a morning of walk-ups, it's back to more pain, back to more pills. the evening showings bring more pain and more pills. sealing the deal... when, hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. it can relieve pain all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lois... who chose two aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels.

trouble with a car insurance claim. [ dennis ] switch to allstate. their claim service is so good, now it's guaranteed. [ foreman ] so i can trust 'em. unlike randy. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate.

today is gonna be an dimportant day for us.ody you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers.

there's a new right wing effort to discredit president obama. at a college lecture last night, the president of another network said, quote, we still don't know anything about obama. in fact, this myth that president obama somehow was invested after an entire political campaign is really being pushed hard. >> barack obama back in 2008 was an empty vessel. the public did not know what or who filled this vessel in order to create what has become a very, i think, confused and mission and visionless leader for our country. well, now, it's not too late to change course and this next go-around understand what has filled ip that vessel. who are these people? who are the radicals, the professors that he said he would hang out with and some of his friends and associations and even what his past voting record

represent, how that filled up that vessel and led to this very confused country in so many respects. >> i don't remember them, you know, examining some of barack obama's lost years of ox dental or what he did as an enlarged story or his reverend wrightes a comment. >> this president successfully hid for who he was for entire election cycle. >> so this is not surprising. >> he's an empty vessel who wasn't vetted in 2008? he hid who he really was? the conservative red state blog writes quote it is most important to know the organizations that obama was and is associated with because these organizations are some of the most corrupt and dangerous ones of our times. and boo! at the washington times, the accusations are even spookier.

quote, the president is not being honest about what his secret plans are. mr. obama has dangerous ideas up his sleeve and won't be forthcoming about his true agenda. joining me now is congresswoman karen bass, democrat from california. and maria teresa kumar executive director of vote latino and msnbc contributor. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks for having us on. >> congresswoman, they are trying to scare the american public. let me ask you whab is behind these conservatives and so-called vetting of the president? >> well, i mean, i think you are exactly right, in terms of trying to picture him as a scary leader. i think they need to buy his book. he wrote a book that detailed his past. if we think for one minute that every line in that book has not been researched, investigated, i know, it is very much a laughable claim to think that we

do not know who the president of the united states is. and he has a record. he has been in office for the last three and a half years. who is president barack obama? president barack obama is the president that saved 1.4 billion jobs by saving the auto industry. that's who barack obama is. >> but, but let me go back to what you said. you said he wrote a book. in fact he wrote two books. >> exactly. >> if you look at the fact that the new york times vetted president obama as time as community organizer in 2008 election, at length. very lengthy article. washington post wrote extensively about president obama and hillary clinton's, both their ties. and the president himself wrote two books. "audacity of hope" and "dreams of my father", writing 928 pages about his life. writes about his family history, childhood work, time in senate. so maria, what do they mean we

don't know anything, he hid his past. i don't know very many candidates that ran for president that wrote two books about their life. >> that's what it is. the super pacs are going on a fishing competition in hopes of finding a tell con in president obama's closet. some people don't have any. i think what changes the equation for this election in 2008, 2012, is that campaigns are no longer in control. the super pacs are. we haven't seen the nastiest part of the campaigns yet. i think mitt romney and president obama will be weary of what the super pacs will come out where. it may not have their fingerprints on it. but they may associate it with their respective camps. >> congresswoman, let me say, we've got a glimpse of this vetting plan. or that they want to do with the president and in the proposal last week, can which they proposed, this proposal to rickets is quote, they say our

plan is to do exactly what john mccain would not let us do. another quote, we recommend hitting barak right between the eyes. that speaks right to what maria was talking about with the super pacs. >> once again he has been president for the last three and a half years. but if they talk about reverend wright, you foe, during the last campaign in '08, there were own 10,000 articles written about reverend wright. what more is there to know this is. >> maria, i think that what we are trying to deal with here is people that are not trying to really deal with what we know they are trying it use kind of sub limb nal messages and scare tactics, trying it triten people that there is something unamerican about our president and when you listen at mr. romney, let me play you a statement he made about the president. >> he doesn't want to share his real plans before the election.

either with the public or with the press. by flexibility, he means that what the american people doesn't know won't hurt him. his intent is on hiding. you and i are going to have to do the seeking. he wants us to re-elect him so we can find out what he will actually do. with all the challenges the nation faces, this is not the time for president obama's hide and seek campaign. >> hide and seek. real agenda. won't tell us. and he was talking about nukes and rish russia. but clearly going to your point, congresswoman, when have you a president that's been in office three and a half years and we've seen what he's done in terms of the do mettic policies, all the way to foreign policies, i mean, clearly we have an idea of what his agenda is. absolutely, he has a record

to run on. but what about what mitt romney wants to do? he has said wasn't it pass the paul ryan budget on day one. the budget that seeks it change medicare and turn it into a voucher. the budget that is basically based on social darwinism that says there are makers in society and takers. so the 1% of the makers and 99% are the takers. which is why we don't need a safety net any more. i think paul ryan's budget, what mitt romney says he want to do within the first few days of his administration. you want to talk about scary, how about that. >> thank you karen bass, maria teresa kumar, always good to have you. thank you both for your time. i head, fighting for justice, a new report showing 2,000 wrongful convictions since 1989. we'll talk it a man jailed for 20 years for a murder he did not commit. stay with us. mcallen, texas. in here, heavy rental equipment in the middle of nowhere,

is always headed somewhere. to give it a sense of direction, at&t created a mobile asset solution to protect and track everything. so every piece of equipment knows where it is, how it's doing or where it goes next. ♪ this is the bell on the cat. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ the calcium they take because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption.

ahead, the fight for justice. 2,000 people have been wrongfully convicted of crimes over the last 23 years. we'll talk it man jailed for 20 years for a murder he did not commit. stay with us. with the spark miles card from capital one,

sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns double miles on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. [ male announcer ] if paula ebert had her way, she would help her child. deoxyribonucleic acid. he knew that. [ male announcer ] with everything. go! goooo! no. no no no no no. mommy's here [ male announcer ] but that kind of love is...frowned upon.

so instead she gives him new capri sun super-v. so he gets more of what he needs... without all the "her" he doesn't think he needs. with one combined serving of fruits and vegetables. new capri sun super-v. at bank of america, we're lending an in communities across the country. fro omrevi htalielzeping t a neigbrhbooklyn..or.ho financing industries that are creating jobs in boston... providing funding for the expansion of a local business serving a diverse seattle community... and lending to ensure a north texas hospital continues to deliver quality care. because the more we can do in local neighborhoods and communities, the more we can help make opportunity possible. welcome back. i want to talk to you about this -- imagine going to prison for a crime you didn't commit. imagine being innocent and locked away behind bars.

it happened to our next guest. his name is frankie coreo. in 1991, he was just 18 when he was convicted of murder. solely on witness testimony. during a time in their lives, most people, in their lives, are going to college, building a career, or starting a family. frankie was behind bars, desperately trying to prove his innocence. he took 20 years. but frankie was finally released from prison after five witnesses changed their stories. he is just one of 2,000 people who, since 1989, have been wrongfully convicted. of those 101 were sentenced it death. for the first time, we are learning their stories from a brand new data base of exonerated prisoners. it is an important new tool in the fight for justice. more than 2 million people are behind bars today.

while most are guilty, some, like frankie, are innocent. that's why this data bank could be the first step in a fight for justice. joining me now is frankie coreo, who, as i mentioned, spent two decades in prison before his release last year. and university of michigan professor samuel gross, co-phoneder and editor of this new exoneration registry. thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you for having me. >> frankie. i want to start with you. tell us your story. how did this happen to you? >> sure. so reverend, although i was convicted at 8, i was arrested at 16. so my story takes us back to, like you mentioned, 1991. there was a drive-by shooting where overzealous police work led to the sheriff's department telling the witness who to pick out after photo line-up. that sort of snowballed and

rippled effect kicked in after that. and i was wrongly convicted. >> what was going through your mind? i mean, and how did you deal with fighting this wrongful conviction? were you angry? did you feel like giving up? how did you deal with this? >> right, right. so 20 years is a lifetime. i add spectrum of different reactions. but mainly, i just could not believe that the system that i looked up to and admired, even as a young boy, let me down. so there was many days of depression, stress and anxiety. and also just in danger in that environment. being in rison is not an easy thing to do. thank god i persevered and didn't get up. >> what has life been like since you got out? >> life has been great. i was accepted to university here in los angeles, which is a great, great honor for me. not only for myself, but for my family and friends who are very proud of me. >> now, let me go to you

professor gross. what's the importance of this registry? >>. [ inaudible ] >> i can't hear the pr professor. let's try to work on his audio. while i'm doing that, frankie, you still with me? >> i am. >> while we're getting professor gross straight, let me ask you this. what do you want the american people to learn from your story? >> you know, there's many stories that can come from this. but you know, most of all, rev, i think the overall lesson is that, you know, the system has many, many flaws in it and a lot of us know that but many don't. unfortunately, you know, people end up also being not only convicted and sent away, but also executed. we have to really take a look at the process of the photo lineup. revise that and make sure these processes don't send the wrong

person to prison as they sent me. >> i understand you reconciled with your son after 20 years? >> that true. >> what that been like? >> it is a beautiful experience to be home and to finally take on the responsibility of being a father. but it is not easy. my son is now 21 years old. and you know, there's just, you know, the small things of knowing how, what to say, when to say it. i'm sure a lot of fathers struggle with that and i'm definitely one of them. >> you were convicted on witness testimony. they later recanted. and i don't think that many american people understand the danger and how frightening that is. the case of troy davis, who was finally executed, and a lot of witness witnesses recanted, he lost his life. we are not saying everyone convicted has been convicted wrongly. we are not even saying most. >> right. >> but the fact that any of this could happen like it happened with you, and thank god for people like professor gross that

could turn that around. we don't need one person going to death row or spending 20 years in jail for something they didn't do. that's the human side of this, i think, people don't understand. >> i agree. i agree. here in california, in november, the voters will have an opportunity to do away with the death penalty. and replace that with life without the possibility of parole. for me, i think that although it is a nameless person, i don't know who he or she is, there has to be someone on death row who is innocent. i would prefer that that person has the opportunity to live out their lives and prove their innocence than to be executed. there are reports and the registry has proven that, that many people have not, not only exonerated, but executed that falsely. >> we don't have professor gross's audio. we will have him on another night. but one of the things the

registry came out with false convictions are perjury, false accusation, misconduct by police or prosecutors. mistaken eyewitness id and false confessions. these areas they said led to wrongful convictions. what is your plans? what are you going to do for the immediate future, frankie, now that you are out and free and have been cleared? >> right. so first of all, rev, being a student is first and foremost what seems to be on my agenda. you know, but second of all, just acclimating back into society. getting to know what it means to be free again. getting to know my son. developing and creating some experiences and memories that my life now that i'm able to sort of like be involved in. i'm working for the campaign to do away with the death penalty. that's a big deal. i think mainly, after being -- spending 20 years in prison, just being happy, living my life. >> you seem like you are not

angry or cynical. it is very impressive. >> thank you. and i'm not. i think i'm grateful that i found whatever mystery in life that i needed and i'm very -- i'm grateful and thank god that i was able to look beyond the hatred. >> all right. thank you frankie. we are going to stay with this story. thank you for sharing with us tonight. blood bless you and your son, too. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ [ male announcer ] the jeep grand cherokee has won more than just respect. ♪ ♪ power surge, let it blow your mind. [ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8.

i want to close the show tonight by setting the record straight about poverty in america. the new spin on the right, is that people receiving public assistance sht quote ashamed as they should be. >> when you think of american dream you don't think about handouts but is that what we are becoming. >> shame used to be part of this. in other words, people didn't want it accept a handout because they were ashamed to do it. now we look at it and we see the explosion of entitlement and the sense of shame is gone. >> so people have to pass a

shame test in order to get benefits? this kind of talk has become the norm on the right. and all these talking point have been picked up and repeated by republican politicians. >> no program in our government has surged out of control more dramatically than food stamps. >> we didn't want it turn the safety net into hammock that causes able-bodied people to be kplas un. >> we have a safety net there. >> it is not safety net. it is a spider web. it traps them in poverty. >> thanks for your leadership but let's look at the fact. because of the bush recession there are now 46 million people on food stamps. nearly half of them are children. 8% are seniors. and 41% of working families and get this, in 2009, food stamps were responsible for bringing down the poverty rate by 8%. i talked to people everyday who are working hard