bragert. "morning joe" starts right now. after losing billions of dollars, mark zuckerberg is being sued for hiding facebook's weak financial report. apparently he put it somewhere where no one will ever look, myspace. morning. welcome to "morning joe." a beautiful day on this thursday morning, may 24. a little rainy out but still pretty. with us onset we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin. the national affairs editor for "new york magazine" john heilemann. and the managing editor of "fortune" magazine andy serwer with us this morning. a lot to talk about. andy, facebook. >> ooh. >> should we just go right there? >> first of all, i want to congratulate andy. he had somebody on the cover other than john roberts. >> every once in a while, we dip into our bag of tricks.

tim cook. >> man. facebook. >> somewhere there's a pooch that's a little unhappy. you know what i'm saying? >> i saw this thing about gus grissom in "the right stuff." >> exactly. >> my god, it couldn't have gone worse for these guys. >> there's a bunch of things that happened. they got greedy. they increased -- >> we're talking about facebook, of course. >> they increased the price, the size of the offering. the screw-ups at nasdaq. but even worse, the fact that it think looks like there's information that went to the company to the analysts to investors. the little guys left out in the cold. >> major big name companies. let's just give people the basics here. >> really quickly, i want to bring up one story really quickly and talk to the game change boys about this. the dangers of the bain strategy. we have always -- i have always been frustrated as a republican for 15, 20 years, since bill

clinton was president, how the media would always talk about how wall street is in the pocket of the republicans. yet all the biggest players on wall street always gave money to democrats for the most part. wall street was a big democratic atm. >> not this year. >> well, that's what i'm saying. nick's front page article in "the new york times" talks about how that strategy has frayed, and how this is very dangerous for the democrats in the long run because wall street has been their money machine. and may not be the case this year after the bain strategy. >> well, and even before the bain strategy. the president had alienated a lot of people in the business community. you know, i think that both sides are going to have a lot of money. i woke up this money seized with a thought about this campaign, which is neither side is talking as much about the future as you normally need to do to win a presidential campaign. i think the focus on bain is too backward looking for the most part. i know they are trying to take out mitt romney. but if the president gives wall

street a reason to think he'll be a great second term president, i think he can get some of that back. >> and bill clinton, of course, triangulated better than anybody else. he was -- he and ruben owned wall street. >> i'm a little skeptical about -- maybe in the long-term it's true. i think in the short-term, wall street as a financial atm for the president is pretty much gone, and not just because he alienated a lot of them and didn't court them, didn't engage -- whatever you want to call it. bill clinton was a master of donor maintenance. barack obama is not. but on top of that, you have a situation where for a lot of wall street donors, they look at mitt romney and they don't see a guy -- even the democrats don't see a guy they hate. >> right. >> rich republicans, rich republican business people, look at the president like he's the devil. rich democratic donors on wall street don't think he's the devil. they think i disagree with him on social issues, but he seems

like an ok guy. >> and this is the outflow after reagan. you had a party starting in 1992 that was run by newt gingrich and karl rove. god, i can be the believe i'm -- >> tom delay. >> what's that? >> tom delay. >> well, i'm thinking about the south carolina strategist that based away. >> lee atwater. >> right. it was his -- >> and mitt romney changed that. >> they look at him and they say -- when you think about the way that there's bundled money but also the big question that's been hovering over the president's re-election is why wall streeters are not writing big checks. and a lot of them will say if i write a big check to those guys,

they'll run a negative ad against mitt romney. i don't want to have my name in the newspaper, and have it used to run incredibly negative personal ads to a guy that i disagree with him on social issues but i don't hate mitt romney. republicans look at obama and say we don't care about that. we think he's horrible and we're happy to write checks to republican super pacs that will tear the president down. >> and that's been the cultural disconnect between the republicans and wall street. and he's one of them. >> there you go. >> and he just spent three days here raking in $10 million, $15 million. >> wow. >> and very comfortable with wall street. >> there's a huge element on wall street who loves him. all of private equity, all of venture capital. leaving aside the critical democrats are on the sidelines a bit, but a lot of people are really supporting him. >> let's talk about the meltdown. >> the facebook face plant. coming under fire from investors who are now suing the company

and ceo mark zuckerberg for allegedly withholding negative information about the social network's initial public offering. facebook's core group of underwriters, including morgan stanley, goldman sachs, and jp morgan chase are also named in the lawsuit. the complaint says that facebook's revenues are declining because the company does not show advertisements to people who use mobile devices to access the social media site. according to a lawsuit, this is one of the primary reasons banks lowered facebook's earnings estimate for the rest of the year. the group of investors behind the case say they have lost more than $2.5 billion since facebook went public last week. in washington, facebook has caught the eyes of the senate banking committee and house financial services committee. both are conducting preliminary investigations into the ipo controversy. but there was a small amount of good news for facebook yesterday on wall street. as facebook shares gained a dollar in yesterday's trading, closing at $32 a share. >> so, andy, they are only down

now about $100 million in a few days. $150 million give or take a few million. >> right. well, i mean, the issue here is one of what's called selective disclosure, which is where you tell one group of shareholders one thing and another group of shareholders another thing or don't tell the second group what you told the first group, which confers an advantage to the first group. unfortunately during the ipo process, it's not clear whether or not that's illegal. but just ask yourself, it violates common sense. suppose i told you one thing and i didn't tell you another thing. how would you feel? you tell the people on wall street that. you tell these analysts that tell the guys at the investment banks, put yourself in their shoes. if they hide behind some sort of fig leaf of legality, we didn't technically violate the law here, it's just really bad. >> why is everybody so desperate? why do you have nasdaq that was so desperate and didn't know how to do it right and botched the deal? and it appears that morgan

stanley and all of these people rushed in, and overvalued the stock, and you have an idiot like me who i do not invest in stocks. i think it's like las vegas. but even looking at it, on the face, never reading financial papers, ft or whatever, as far as digging into the markets, you just knew, this was overvalued. why did the fools on wall street rush in again? >> is this a surprise? >> it's a surprise they messed it up. it's a keystone cop scenario. and these are people who should know how to -- >> the biggest ipo ever. >> yeah. >> they shrcrewed up the bigges ipo ever. >> morgan stanley is the banker of tech companies, goldman sa s sachs, jp morgan, they should have known better. and the fact that facebook is holier than thou. this is more than commerce. we are creating this social good for around the world. we don't really care about money that much. oh, by the way, we're increasing the price continuously and the size of the offering.

so there's a lot of players that you can point fingers to. facebook, nasdaq, the investment bankers. and it makes people distrust wall street and -- >> the ghost of henry blogin is floating over this whole thing. in the 1990s, he worked for merrill lynch and he called a stock a p.o.s. privately and publicly he would go on cnbc and say this is the greatest buy ever. it's going to go up to $400. you're smirking. what's wrong? do you hang out with him in brooklyn? this happened 12 years ago. and it's happening -- >> yeah, same as it ever was. is that why you're smirking, john? >> i have multiple reasons for smirking. >> my french accent. go ahead. >> but it looked -- it is -- the thing that andy just said is the thing that most makes me smirk because i covered the ipo

movement in the late '90s. and this nexus between silicon valley and wall street is just rotten. i'm thinking about elliott spitzer and the investigations that were launched. you can pick your bubble -- >> jack ruddman. he let my kid in the 92nd street y, and i will give you -- my twins into the kindergarten there, and then i'll give you a buy recommendation. he gets a buy recommendation. his kids get into the 92nd street y. and then suddenly -- michael kelly laid this out beautifully back in 2002. >> yeah. >> well, i think michael kelly wrote about it. maybe michael wolf did as well. but that's how rotten it is here. >> but if you think about the -- every time there's a bubble, you know, we have these same -- it's like the same abuses just get exposed again and again. people -- lawsuits are instigated. law reform is proposed.

people say it will never happen again. we've learned a lesson. and then the next time there's a big fat pot of money, the exact same thing happens again, and people again -- it's just, you know, like night follows day. and the sun rises in the east. >> but the conversation here, we had everyone -- they were voicing concerns. we were reporting on concerns. we were reporting on advertising issues. what are we missing? >> well, i mean, i think that's part of the reason why the ipo tanked also, is because they pushed it up so high, and there was a lot -- there was a drum beat of skepticism. there was the gm thing. and so there was no demand for it at that price. that's also -- >> was it too late to turn back a few days before when people were voicing serious concerns? >> well, they could have lowered the price. that would have been a black eye. it looks bad. less money, less money, less money. that's always critical. >> can we have a trial and verdict? who were the individuals? who at facebook should have not let this happen?

>> well, the cfo for one thing. >> who's that? >> dave eppersman was brought in. he is a respected chief financial officer. cheryl samberg recused herself because she and her husband had a relationship with morgan stanley. so she stepped back. but mark zuckerberg is the ceo of the company, right? he is ultimately responsible. and there's going to be as you suggest a lot of investigating. but we'll see what comes of it. you know, it's going to be hard to put -- to punish people here. and that is going to be very frustrating for a lot of people again and again and again, right? >> and, you know, i guess the reason why we were able to sit around this table and say this was garbage last week is because we all went through what happened in the late 1990s. you're talking about the ipos. you would always hear about the wonderful ipos. and it was just like in florida back five years ago. somebody would put a trailer up on a vacant lot, and all of the -- a 40-storey condo would

be sold out before they put the first stake in there. and the same thing happened. >> but let's just say one thing. i heard you guys talk about this a lot last week. you know, this is a slightly different situation. there were a lot of companies in the original dot-com boom that had nothing. they said we have impressions, but no page views. >> not even that. potential eyeballs. >> no revenues, no profits. this is not a company without revenues. it's got substantial revenues, and it's a company with profits. >> $1 billion. >> and more eyeballs than anyone has ever had. 900 million. >> so this company has a substantial business and a substantial potential business model and a future where it could be a successful company in the world. >> you have a lot of coulds, a lot of potentials. >> it has $1 billion in profit. >> and yet a lot of coulds and a lot of potentials a lot of maybes. and yet it was the highest ipo

offering ever. that is poppycock. >> but this isn't pets.com. >> it's soft profit. >> it's a company that has $1 billion in profits and $4 billion in revenues. so the question is, who got so greedy as to push the price beyond reason? who got so greedy as to cut these corners? >> the bankers and the executives. >> let's go right now to your magazine and talk about why we would understand if apple had an extraordinarily high ipo because how they changed the world. >> well, it's a machine. >> how it's a machine. how they make things. and how you know that three months from now there's not going to be somebody that comes up with an extraordinary idea that displaces apple. whereas facebook is a bit more tenuous. >> well, the products that they put out, of course, we have talked about this many, many times.

they are remarkable. and steve jobs is gone. tim cook has been the ceo since last august. and he is changing the company. the products still exist. there are questions, of course, as to whether or not he'll continue to be able to roll out the incredible products that steve jobs did. but he's changing the company. he's making it a little bit more open. a little bit more corporate, quite frankly. but sometimes in ways that are actually good. it's hard to say corporate is good. but in terms of not sitting on all of that cash, giving some back to shareholders, and also making apple philanthropic. that's something that steve jobs didn't do publicly at all. there are mbas there now, professional management. there is less fear. someone the other day said, yeah, i have time for coffee. before, no one at apple would have ever said that. you went out to lunch with someone from apple they would run back to the office. and some people would suggest that that's a bad thing, that apple is not the way it used to be. and it can never be. >> talk about tim cook. he is -- if i'm not mistaken, somebody told me he is an auburn

guy, and he is from my neck of the woods. he's from southern alabama. >> yes. he is. he is an auburn guy and a big sports fan. >> is he really? >> he is. >> i'll even say war eagle this morning. >> and that's tough for you to say. >> it is. but if you're running apple, you get that. >> and you're starting to see a bit more of him emerge. apple is very guarded about tim. but, you know, he's coming out a little bit. he has met with regulators in washington, d.c., made the rounds in new york to meet with investors. all of that is very different from steve jobs, who wouldn't dayne to meet particularly with investors who he detested. and again, some of these things are funny. some of these things are smart. but tim is a different guy. and the whole thing is you don't ask at apple what would steve have done. you ask supposedly what's right for apple. you know, getting away from the cult of steve. it will never be the same company. it's changing slowly. but maybe for the better in some regards.

>> steve wasn't a bad thing for apple. >> it wasn't. >> now you're a consumer of apple. how has the past year been? i'm serious. you're one of the most serious apple consumers i've ever seen. >> well, they survived. it was a cult of personality in terms of leadership, and they survived. i don't think the brand has taken any hit whatsoever. and the key is, can they not just tweak the existing products like making a smaller ipad but can the new regime come up with new things? >> apple tv to the next level and all of that stuff. >> i wouldn't bet it all on apple tv. >> i tell you what, i've got to say, and i've said this for a couple of years now, apple tv is the one thing they have done that i cannot believe it hasn't taken off. because it sure as heck has revolutionized the way i watch tv. >> it seems like people still don't know about it. >> it's on the horizon, and it's happening. there's a lot of new stuff going on in tv. >> apple tv is probably my favorite apple device.

because i've watched -- there are so many series i haven't been able to watch over the past decade because, you know, i work 15 hours a day. apple tv is the first thing that's been easy enough that if i have two hours on the weekend, i sit down and i watch four "modern families" or i catch up with "veep." >> there's too many -- i have apple tv and i like it. but the cable system is now offering similar products. hulu. there's a lot of different ways to do the same thing. and i love the product. but i notice, i have a lot of devices in my house where i can find the same tv shows. video in the cloud, there's a lot of different ways to get into it now and it's hard to get a competitive advantage. >> do have you any brand loyalty as far as your television hardware? >> i don't even know what kind i have. >> that's why i think if they make the leap finally into selling hardware, actual tvs with the apple tv built in --

>> i'd buy it in a second. >> because the tvs are changing so much. we did a thing in our family around the table with the kids saying what do you predict will be 10 years or 20 years from now, technology, and my daughters each picked things that apple has already done. you'll be able to talk to your computer. i complain about the iphone breaking. that's about my only complaint. glass phone. i don't get it. we have to go to break. >> sirri has to get better. >> she is obnoxious. >> i change her into a man, she gets better. british accent. >> steve would never release siri under these conditions. >> seriously, though. on siri, really quickly, right after i got it, verizon jumped in. it worked great for a little bit. then it slowed down and stopped working. and i just went back to it a week or two ago. and you almost get a sense that verizon has figured out how to catch up with the broadband width. now i talk into it fast, and it's better than ever. >> find me some organic mushrooms. >> no, don't do that.

>> you're looking at the wrong guy. >> how come it always says no to me when i ask for things? we'll have to fix that. we have to go to break. but sheila bear has an incredible piece she's written in -- while we're in your magazine telling jamie dimon to break up chase. i'll read a portion during must reads. but it's a good angle given everything we're talking about today. >> it's strong. >> what magazine is that again? >> "fortune." coming up, we're going to continue our conversation on tech stocks. >> oh, the doctors are in. >> and politics. and also the doctors are going to be back in. >> teen diabetes, obesity. dr. nancy snyderman and zeke emanuel will be here. we'll also talk to "washington post" columnist ej dionne, and our friend digger phelps. up next, the top stories in the politico playbook. but first, bill karins has a check on the forecast. well, mika, worst weather out there anywhere in the

country is heading for minneapolis. thunderstorms this morning near sioux falls across northern iowa. they will arrive in the twin cities in the early portions of the morning rush hour. keep that in mind as you make your morning plans. it will probably rain there for about two or three hours. rain from minneapolis down to iowa, into kansas city and portions of central missouri. as far as the forecast goes today, have the umbrella handy from d.c. to philly to new york. it's going to be about a 30% to 40% chance of afternoon showers and storms. mostly dry out there this morning but still very humid. there will be some showers and storms later today. the south is getting hot. look at texas, 95 degrees today in dallas. getting pretty warm too around new orleans. atlanta. west coast, no problems at all. taking a peek ahead to the holiday weekend, very warm weather dominates the weather map. it will expand on saturday and sunday into the ohio valley. we could be in the mid to upper 90s in areas like memifis and nashville. the only areas of concern over the holiday weekend, the

northern plains. a lot of rainy, wet weather for you. we'll talk more about the memorial day forecast in the days ahead. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. now you can apply sunblock to your kids' wet skin. neutrogena® wet skin kids. ordinary sunblock drips and whitens. neutrogena® wet skin cuts through water. forms a broad spectrum barrier for full strength sun protection. wet skin. neutrogena®. got the mirrors all adjusted? you can see everything ok? just stay off the freeways, all right? i don't want you going out on those yet. mmm-hmm. and just leave your phone in your purse. i don't want you texting, all right? daddy...ok! ok, here you go. be careful. thanks dad. call me -- but not while you're driving.

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25 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. "the new york times," the front page shows cadets celebrating their graduation in colorado springs. president obama vowed to maintain a strong military amid budget cuts. and "the guardian." in pakistan, the doctor who helped the united states track down osama bin laden has been convicted of high treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison. the doctor ran a vaccination program for the cia, trying to

collect dna to verify bin laden's presence at the compound. the u.s. is apparently now working behind the scenes to have the sentence reduced or tossed out. "the los angeles times" business section, one of britain's most respected journalists says under oath that piers morgan specifically instructed him on how to hack into someone's voicemail. the conversation apparently happened during a lunch between the two men back in 2002. morgan responded on twitter, that's the time -- that's the last time i invite a jerry me packsman to lunch. ungrateful little wretch. >> so he's joking about it. but he's -- this isn't the first time this has come up, right? >> it has come up before. >> it's not funny. >> and i don't know where it's going. >> i don't either. i think he's -- hasn't he testified? didn't he go over and testify before -- >> i don't know if he did that.

but his name has been in the mix. >> i don't know if he was joking. >> it doesn't seem like something to joke about. >> i don't think he's joking. >> not in this climate. >> i think i would have my lawyer put a statement out, and not on twitter. mark halperin, we were talking before as we talk about the brands going up and down, isn't it amazing what's happened to sony? it used to be everything i bought, whether it was, you know, a boom box, an 8-track tape, a boom box. but whether it was a tv or whether it was a stereo, whatever it was, it was sony. and they have just collapsed. >> they had what apple has now, which is the stuff looked better than anybody else's. it was cooler. and it worked. >> sounded better. >> and it created new markets with the walkman. remember? that was portable music for the first time. you could truck around and listen to tunes. >> that was a revolution. >> but two things happened. electronics got commodityized.

and then people just wanted to pay a lower price. and then the digital revolution happened. once you got computer technology inside stuff, security electronic companies got hollowed out. and they were a -- once the ipod came along, apple -- >> but if they had come out with their mp3 device at the same time or before apple did, which they should have done, we would all be having a sony walkman that would have been for the mp3. how did they not have an mp3 twice? >> it's a computer device. >> that was part of apple's genius. their success was predicated on the itunes store and having the software and the songs connected to the easy commerce and everything else. you know, you're going against steve jobs. that's kind of tough, number one. but they didn't have the innovation. reflective the japanese economy overall, the lack of creativity. they were very set in their ways. you know, markets change.

>> listen to what you just said. all of those discussions are about software. >> that's true. >> they were not that company. they didn't have a software division. they didn't have people who wrote code. they were a box maker. and once it got to be a story about chips and bits, they lost. >> done. >> time now to get to politico. with us now, chief white house correspondent for politico mike allen. yes! here with the morning playbook for us. >> good morning, guys. >> we'll start with governor stott walker in the wisconsin recall election. becoming a bit of a conservative hero or not. i've been reading about this in the "wall street journal." it appears he might be. >> yeah. mika, he -- every indication now is that he's going to win big over the democratic milwaukee mayor tom barrett. and this does three things. one, it's a real embarrassment to big -- >> let me stop you there. is that breaking news that he's going to win big? i mean, is that where most of us have come down now? does it look like he's going to

pull this one out? >> well, he is. and as a result of that, all around the country, he's become a big applause line at republican gatherings. the justice cycle, the governor has raised $25 million in money from around the country, including from some of the country's biggest republican donors. so the left labor democrats which plan to embarrass him instead have made him a big national figure with a very bright future. >> and there was a lot of money raised on the other side too, so it truly is an embarrassment. >> well, that's right. it was money poured down the drain by democrats on the left in a presidential election year. and the effect of this is going to be to make wisconsin look better for mitt romney. the house budget chairman paul ryan is of course from wisconsin and he's been saying for a while that the result of this race, just because it's coming early, because it's coming at a quiet time when there aren't other

formal events, is going to be a real moment ultimaum driver for these parties. >> this is a godfather moment where you never get angry. and that's what the union movement did in wisconsin. we sit around the table, mika, this was a stupid thing to do to try to recall a sitting governor in a presidential year. and now, i mean, not only does it have an impact in wisconsin, on the presidential race, but this is a very dark moment for the union movement overall. and that's not something i celebrate. i mean, this is -- this is -- i'm not going to say it's a death blow, but it certainly will be a bitter pill to swallow, losing a fight they didn't have to pick. >> well, again, it's in a lot of ways previewing the presidential year. as mike suggested, republicans and conservatives from around the country have been all in on this, on principle and on backing scott walker personally. democrats have been more divided. you've seen reports of questions

about how much is the president going to invest in this, how much is the democratic party going to invest. i think they are going have to have one more push. if they do come up short, it really will be a huge psychological boost for republicans not just in wisconsin but on standing up for some of the things that scott walker has fought for and where he's drawn lines. >> and notice the white house and the re-election committee in chicago have stayed away from wisconsin. they have done these big ad buys. they picked their nine states. wisconsin not on that list. and the reason was because they wanted to wait and see how this turned out. you know, they have been keeping a distance from it. and it is trending in this direction, and it keeps them even further distance. >> they are not going to double down. >> so who made this decision, really quickly, before we go to break? what union made this decision that they would pick a fight that wasn't a fair fight, that they weren't going to win? >> the teachers played a part in it. i don't know which other ones. >> it was a terrible decision for the unions. a very stupid decision. sort of a -- they are running

uphill and they'll get shot down. >> public employees? >> well, they are a big part of it too. >> mike allen, thank you very much. >> thank you, mike. coming up, sports with jonathan capehart. >> dear lord. >> really? this is awkward. and a little later, we'll bring in digger phelps and find out what he's doing in this video. what do you think digger is doing, joe? he is gyrating. i know that. >> looks similar to something that capehart is going to do. >> this works, capehart doing sports and digger phelps gi rating onstage. keep it here. big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha!

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ok, everybody. hold on. you are on the hindenburg. it is going down. and you have two choices. ride it to the ground in flames, or jump. here's jonathan capehart and sports. >> let's do sports. >> yes, the ber-lizst of sports. former sixers great allen iverson was on hand. >> who is allen iverson? >> stop it, people. >> in the third period, iguodala with the durnk and the foul. sixers with a three-point lead after the free-throw. shut up! people!

jrue holiday hits the jumper. holiday had a team-high 26 points for the sixers. paul pierce tries a desperation three-pointer but can't get it to fall. dooling grabs the rebound but doesn't have any luck either. sixers win 82-75. that forces a decisive game seven in boston. >> who do you like in game seven? >> that wasn't so bad. >> it wasn't so bad. but the heat can advance to the -- >> i don't care. >> you're wearing your celtics -- >> to be whoey now. a shootout between the rangers and devils at the garden. devils get on the board early when gionta finds the net with the goal three minutes into the first period that. gives them a 1-0 lead. not even two minutes later, the devils score again. this time, patrik elias with the goal, and the devils are up 2-0. mika, still in the first period. travis zajac finds the net for the devils making it 3-0. the rangers never recover from

the early onslaught, and the devils win 5-3 and take a three-game to two lead in the series. >> talk about an onslaught. >> you look fantastic. >> thank you. now to the red sox try to get back to the .500 mark taking on the first place orioles in baltimore. top of the sixth, red sox clinging to a one-run lead until kelly shoppach sends this one over the wall. sox up 5-2 on the homer. in the eighth, podsednik puts the red sox up by two with this homer. they win 6-5 and move their record to 22 wins and 22 losses on the year. >> jonathan, you have to be excited about that. what fabric is that tie? >> it's a wool j crew tie. >> j crew? >> uh-huh. >> and nice pocket square. >> lily pulitzer. >> is it really? >> yeah, it is. i would love to have a pair of pants in this. >> we would all rather not see that.

>> and then do sports in those pants. >> most sportscasters do have a lily pocket square. >> tim brant always wore that as his signature. >> you'd look good in bermuda shorts. >> with this? >> yeah. >> i think this would be a great pair of pants myself. i don't know. >> fantastic sports cast. >> did you like that? was it fun? >> yes, it was good. >> it was cut in half from what i did on way way. >> that was fabulous. just fabulous. up next, the must read opinion pages. also, why the co-chair of obama's fiscal commission lashed out at a group of california seniors. holy mackerel. also today on "the view" -- joe, "morning joe" on "the view," 11:00 a.m. eastern time. can't wait. >> yeah.

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♪ you're looking at the white house. to the strains of "sister golden." that's a great song, 1975, i think. god, it's a great song. >> takes you back, huh? >> it really does. >> summer nights, shooting hoops in the driveway. >> great song. i tried to make it sunday, but i got so damned depressed, that i set my sight on monday. >> it sounds like you wrote it. >> that is great. >> you wrote that song. >> i love it. so we've got a lot to do. let's do this letter first. >> this is obtained by politic .

>> but we have a lot of polls. we have a lot to cram in 2:po. >> this is a letter from allen simpson to california alliance fo sugstion to you, an hest one, read the damn report. the moment of truth. 67 pages. and then tell me if we're not doing the right thing with social security. what a wretched group of seniors you must be to use the faces of the very people that we are trying to save while the greedy geezers like you use them as a fool and a front for your y yo nefarious bunch of crap. >> so what set him off? yet another senior citizens group saying you're trying to kill social security and showing pictures of young people on the cover, which of course is perverse. >> right. i mean, you know, it just takes away from having a real debate,

scare tactics, bad. >> yeah. let's go to sheila bears. >> all right. in your magazine, andy, "fortune," sheila bear writing this about chase. the best way for jamie dimon to provide a bert return to his investors is to recognize that his bank is worth more in smaller, easier to manage pieces. let's face it. make a competitive return on equity will become even harder for megabanks. as capital requirements go up, their trading and derivative activities are reined in, and their cost of borrowing rises as bond investors recognize that too big to fail is over. if by downsizing dimon can compare to regional banks, he will potentially release tens of billions to value of his shareholders and rule the roost once again. >> and the chances are next to zero? >> and it's too bad, because people break up companies all

the time to unlock value. sorry, mika. >> it happens when it's the ceo's idea. not when it comes from washington. >> it should happen to citi. that bank is just a red hot mess. don't write about jp morgan chase. focus on citi. how does that thing even stand up? it's like maacgyver with paper clips and scott tape. let's look at the new poll numbers, and we have a sa vant with us who says he knows the math better than anybody else. this new poll shows that president obama is holding his lead over mitt romney in three key states. according to this poll, he edges out romney by six points in ohio and four points on romney in florida and virginia. i don't buy florida, not for a second, and nobody else in the

white house does either. but that gap is closing in virginia. the race narrowed from 13 points in the last two months to four. the poll also looked at influential leaders from those states and how they affect the numbers floated. this is really interesting, john heilemann. swing states, portman makes verying the difference. in florida, neither jeb nor rubio makes a really big difference as well. but that florida number is wrong. there's a poll that shows it differently. internally, the white house and the romney people see a five, six-point lead. how does the map shake out in these swing states? >> if you look at the three big states, florida is the outlier. and the poll yesterday i think reflects the reality more. romney thinks they can win florida. the obama campaign publicly would say it's going to be close, but they are more pessimistic about florida than they are about ohio or virginia. virginia, the demographics favor the president overwhelmingly the

state has changed so much, so many latino voters and the economy is doing very well in virginia. they are very optimistic about virginia. and they think ohio will be super close. but a good economy in ohio, the auto bailout benefits them, and it's the only state in the country where unions really matter on a national level. >> let's say that the white house and romney is right, and romney wins florida. portman selected in ohio. and those polls are wrong. portman makes a difference and they win ohio. and let's say virginia swings romney's way as well. is there still a path forward for barack obama to get elected? >> well, there is, but if romney wins virginia, it means he's probably going to win north carolina, and then you say florida and ohio. now you're getting -- that's a lot. that's an inside straight for romney winning a bunch of states. if romney can keep his lead where the hispanic gap is really

huge, it's almost impossible for obama to win. >> i think florida will go for romney. i think portman will be romney's guy, so he'll probably win ohio by a point or two. if romney holds onto virginia and wins -- i mean, obama, holds onto virginia and the west, obama still wins. >> yes. he can lose -- if he holds onto new mexico, nevada, colorado, again all states that are very strong there, and holds onto virginia -- >> he wins. whether the two big swing states go. >> he could lose ohio and florida in that scenario. but again, if romney wins florida, north carolina, virginia, and ohio, you're starting to get into where romney could pull it off. >> jonathan, what states are you looking at as the keys moving forward? >> well, virginia. i would say north carolina but i think that's -- >> that's a lost cause. >> but colorado, last i saw, that's not a lock for the president. he's fighting to retain that state, isn't he?

>> it is. but if you look at the way that michael bennett won in 2010, pretty weak candidate and appointed candidate, the demographics of colorado has really changed. the white house says we do the same thing michael bennett did in 2010. a republican here, by the way. they are very confident about colorado. >> given the discussion we just had, is virginia basically the canary in the coal mine? whichever candidate wins virginia, that person very well might likely be the next president of the united states? >> i think it's probably the most important state in the country this year. >> that's interesting. i wonder about florida with all the problems with rick scott, the economy in such turmoil with housing. is it really so over? you know it a thousand times better than anybody. >> it is such a republican state. and going down to palm beach, broward, and talking to some jewish leaders down there over the past couple of years, there is a supreme disconnect between

barack obama and the people that helped democrats year in and year out in miami dade, broward, and miami beach. >> and the housing bubble, if it doesn't recover. >> yes. hold that thought. we'll be right back. with a hat. see, airline credit cards promise flights for 25,000 miles, but... [ man ] there's never any seats for 25,000 miles. frustrating, isn't it? but that won't happen with the capital one venture card. you can book any airline, anytime. hey, i just said that. after all, isn't traveling hard enough? ow! [ male announcer ] to get the flights you want, sign up for a venture card at capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? uh, it's ok. i've played a pilot before. what's in your wallet? pull on those gardening gloves. and let's see how colorful an afternoon can be. with the home depot certified advice to help us expand our palette... ...and prices that keep our budgets firmly rooted... ...we can mix the right soil with the right ideas.

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all right. flipping through the papers this

morning, came across this picture. in "the daily news." former president bill clinton. >> what picture is that? >> well -- >> where is it? >> page 29. >> page 29? >> well, i -- >> is it an early -- what is it? >> no, it was on twitter, i guess. he's in monaco. >> oh, that's good. well, he goes across the world. >> porn stars. >> what? >> those are porn stars. >> adult film actresses? >> yeah. >> what are you talking about? >> it's at a gala. and they are porn actresses. >> right. >> and i just -- i don't get it. that's all. that's all i have to say. i don't want to talk about it. >> hold on a second. lee, the woman wearing the blue strapless dress on the right, was recently named best new starlet by the adult video news. and she also picked up the award for best sex scene. >> oh, god. >> so there you go. >> so i have a feeling somebody shoved some women in front of

the president, and it's unfortunate for him, but pretty good for their twitter accounts. >> hate it when that happens. >> i'm surprised you got to page 28, though. >> that's pretty impressive, mika. >> seriously? >> i didn't know you read the tabloids. >> seriously? >> talking about this and much more, "the washington post" columnist ej dionne will join us onset. also, chuck todd. and new numbers on the massachusetts senate race. that one is going to be a barn burner. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪

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you're the first class in nine years that will graduate into a world where there are no americans fighting in iraq. for the first time in your lives, and thanks to air force personnel who did their part, osama bin laden is no longer a threat to our country. [ applause ] >> we put al qaeda on the path to defeat. you are the first graduates since 9/11 who can clearly see how we'll end the war in afghanistan. for a decade, we have labored under the dark cloud of war. and now we can see a light, the light of a new day, on the horizon. >> welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful look at the capital in washington, d.c. mark halperin and john heilemann still with us.

joining the table, columnist for "the washington post" ej dionne. he is out with a new book, "our divided political heart, the battle for the american idea in an age of disconmeatendisconten. ." great to have you here. >> a book written by a man who has a brilliant sister. >> absolutely. >> you brought the map over, the 270 to win map over, and we were going through the states. i'll tell you what, you look at the states where the breaking down and you make some assumptions about florida that a lot of people are making now, and we're making the assumption that portman gets on the ticket, and ohio may be in romney's column. suddenly, virginia and colorado are two of the most important states in america. and that's one of the reasons the president had a fundraiser there yesterday. and is trying to get there as much as possible. >> the conventional wisdom, including here, has been romney has far fewer paths than the

president does. if you give him florida, and they are big ifs, ohio, florida, and virginia, romney has a lot of paths to 270. >> virginia, of those three, who would have believed this four years ago, ej, but of the four states the least likely for mitt romney to win virginia. >> well, virginia is a very different state than it used to be, because of the great population out in the virginia suburbs. they are very much the same as in the maryland suburbs, where i am, which are very democratic. and so when you combine that with the democratic vote in the southern part of the state, you've got the democratic majority. tim cane showed that. mark warner showed that. each with a different map of virginia. >> yeah. >> i'll tell you another state that's going to matter a lot. iowa. which is a state that the president won in 2008. and that is looking not that great for him right now. the gay marriage decision matters in iowa. and they are concerned. >> ironically because they have one of the lowest unemployment

rates in the country too, which is one thing that might help him. >> there's something that happened in iowa that just doesn't fit with most of the other battle ground states. >> well, a lot of that has to do with the fact that this state has been divided over gay marriage for several years. you have three supreme court justices that were recalled because they overturned a legislative ban on gay marriage. i mean, this issue is going to have an impact in iowa, north carolina, and certainly in virginia, all the way up to richmond. >> and ohio too. >> and ohio. >> those are the four states. >> i keep forgetting ohio. seriously, conservative catholics in ohio. blue collar. >> also, southern ohio is effectively southern in its complexion. >> like northern kentucky. >> if you look at the primary results, west virginia, arkansas, kentucky, and you think about the comparable voters in ohio, that makes it a

little bit harder for the president. >> ej, before we get into some of these polls, i brought up conservative catholics in ohio. talk about what's going on with the catholic church right now. notre dame suing the federal government, as well as quite a few other bishops. >> well, the column i wrote this morning is about the other side of that, which is there are 195 diocese in the country, 13 brought suit. in the column, i quote an interview with bishop steven blare of stockton, california. all of the california bishops, partly because they have been through this before with their own regulations on contraception and other matters, said, this is a crazy idea to bring this lawsuit now. and i think there are moderates and progressive bishops who are kind of starting to push back and say, wait a minute, public posture of the church is way too aligned with the right wing of the republican party. this is not where they are. and so i think you're going to see an argument now among the bishops, whereas up to now, you

have seen their voice predominated by right wing bishops. >> or some would say traditional. you say right wing. >> well, very conservative. we can agree on that. >> we can say orthodox. >> or extreme. all right. >> it depends on what you said. having said all of that, new poll numbers out this morning show president obama holding a narrow lead over mitt romney in three key battleground states. according to the nbc news/maris poll, the president edges out the likely republican nominee by six points in ohio and up four points on romney in florida. but a poll out yesterday showed romney up 47% to 41% in that state. in virginia, the president is up four points but the gap is closing, narrowing by 130 points in the last two months. the poll also looked at how influential leaders from those states affect the numbers when floated as presidential running mates to romney.

the obama-biden ticket comes out ahead by five points when senator rob portman of ohio is added to the ballot. in virginia, governor bob mcdonald helps romney bring the race to within the margin of error. and in florida, a romney-rubio ticket trails the president and vice president by four points, while jeb bush narrows the democrats' lead to two points. kind of interesting. >> mark, any surprising numbers there? >> well, the key number to look at in the romney campaign will say, and they're right, is the president's number. romney's number matters less. that shows you how close the election is. he's got to get to 50. it will be a pretty pure two-person race in all of the states. and 48 is high enough that he can pull this out. but the normal analysis is the incumbent is not going to get a lot of the undecided vote and 48 is not enough to win. but i think we all agree that this race is more in play now

than we thought it was a couple of weeks ago. >> so close. it's just going to be so close. and the margin, we go back to this gay marriage thing, on substance i applaud the president for doing what he did. but the white house would say, again, going back to those four states, north carolina, virginia, ohio, and iowa, all states where on the margin makes it a little harder. and they would admit that. and they think that they might be able to make it up with youth turnout that are excited about the gay marriage decision. but in a really close election, like in ohio or north carolina, 14,000 votes out of 3.5 million cast. that's all the president won by. you move 7,000 votes, and that's the difference. that's not very many votes. it's going to be that tight in a lot of states. let's talk about massachusetts for a minute. because the narrative has been that elizabeth warren was fading, that this law school application issue was going to hurt her. it looks right now like that race is knotted up again.

>> it has been a tough time for her campaign after weeks of back and forth with senator scott brown over her native american ancestry, which she put on some applications. elizabeth warren has closed the gap in the massachusetts senate race. a new poll shows senator scott brown holding a one-point lead over warren, 48% to 47%. that is an eight-point swing from february, which brown led 49% to 40%. i've always thought that this was going to be incredibly close. i know you like scott brown. i like elizabeth warren. >> listen -- >> i like them both, but i'd like her to win. >> i like them both. i have always said this, and i think scott brown knows this, that scott brown won under the most favorable circumstances imaginable. he won in the middle of the obama care debate, when things were about as ugly for the white house and democrats as possible. he won not in an off year election, but in a special election.

when turnout is as low as it could possibly be. campaigns. but she ran a horrific campaign, and yet he only won by a couple of points. it's also true -- i grew up in massachusetts. and people say, and they're right, we are a very, very democratic state. but there are republicans who o election yearshan nonelection years. and that's how romney was elected governor. we had a whole slew of republican governors. there are kind of outer suburban areas that tend to swing. so i think this will be closer than you would think by the numbers. but i think this is really impressive for warren, because, you know, if you listen to the

press, if i can criticize the press, this has all been about her claims about being a native american. you know, a cherokee. and yet at least judging by this single poll that hasn't had an effect. if anything, she's gotten better since this controversy happened. >> scott brown is an incredible candidate, obviously. for so many reasons given what he's done and what you talked about, joe. but elizabeth warren i think represents something that is so important to our times. and i think taps into it in a positive way. especially because of -- >> what, a democrat who might win? [ laughter ] >> a democrat who can articulate an argument better than almost any democrat in the country. >> thank you, ej. >> an argument about fairness and how the economy ought to work. >> and she's created something to try and -- >> if she wins, if she wins in massachusetts, she's on the fast track to a national ticket. we were interviewing her at fenway. and i turned to mika, obviously we interview a lot of people, and i turned to mika in the middle of the interview, and i

turned to mika and i say, maybe the best i've ever seen, just as far as central casting, straight from a hollywood movie. she is -- i looked at her and i said, i wonder if this is how democrats looked at ronald reagan when he found his voice. because she -- >> she's got it. she's not developing it >> and again, republicans, please, i'm not talking about substance. i'm talking about how she carries herself. >> how to win. >> being a political athlete. this is her first political campaign, and she is so good. >> that clip of her talking about fairness and why paying taxes is reasonable. that for liberals is what reagan's time for choosing speech for barry goldwater in 1964 was for conservatives. >> that's what we're about. >> that is also -- i brought up, i think, one of the more important articles in quite some time explaining a much larger trend. especially in the age where there is now a break-up of the

clinton wall street alliance that ruben helped start. that's why somebody like elizabeth warren, as clean as possible, if i were a democrat, if i were a progressive, i would be writing checks and sending them to massachusetts eve week. i would. because she is one of the few that's not tainted by wall street. not chuck schumer. i love chuck schumer. but come on, chuck, you're doing wall street's bidding. if i'm a progressive, i know jill gilibrand is playing the wall street game. >> they are striking the balance. >> they are all writing checks to elizabeth warren. >> and politicians have to do that. but elizabeth warren is loathed by wall street. she's hated by wall street. and it gives her a freedom. >> and was stomped out by the republicans when she was supposed to head up the consumer protection bureau. >> and threw right under the bus by barack obama. >> if ever you hit $1 trillion, they'll go against elizabeth warren. let me tell you what i love

so much about your book. you hear people complaining about how there's a split in american politics today. and what your book touches on is the fact that this goes all the way back to george washington's cabinet when alexander hamilton and thomas jefferson were yelling at each other. the campaign of 1800 as ugly as any campaign we've ever had. this tension, this give and take, is what's made us so strong over 235 years. >> well, it's true. and i think that for those who say that the constitution says x, not y, within three years of the adoption of the constitution, hamilton and madison are arguing over whether it authorizes a national bank set up by the federal government. the core argument of the book is that we are all divided. that from the beginning, americans have been divided by a deep tension between our love of individualism and our deep affection for community. and that i argue that we are at our best, we make ourselves work, when we keep these two

things in balance. and we go haywire when we go too far in one direction. and talking about conservatives, i have a lot of respect for the conservative tradition. but the part of that i like best and admire best is the humanitarian part. and i think for the moment, conservatives have thrown that part out the window in favor of a radical individualism. >> explain. >> that conservatives always talked about the important of tradition, family, neighborhood. and they also talked about the importance of society. going way back to edmond burke. in this period, conservatives are sort of thinking as conservatives did in the gilded age where really what we do collectively doesn't matter. government is always oppressive. that's not what conservatives like clay and lincoln and hamilton thought. and i think this is an aberration for the right, which i hope ends soon. but i think that's what set up this election, such a fundamental choice. >> how does it end?

>> well, yeah, ej. talk about a little bit. burke is a great thing to talk about. the virtue of compromise was the core of what burke advised. >> right. burke was on the one hand, he also showed that you could be deeply principled. he is the guy who said i should vote the way i think is right, not take a poll of my constituency even though there were no polls back in those days. but the other thing, when you look back, i think that in the u.s., we have been governing under a kind of long consensus that we really established at the beginning of the progressive era. and it was a consensus that saw a strong role for the market and a strong role for government. and i think now politics one side of the debate wants to end the consensus. but i think it's untrue to what made us succeed as americans, which is a sense of balance.

public, private, individual, community, national and local. we have always kept things in balance. and i think there's an attempt to push everything over right now on one side. >> president clinton had a great way of talking about responsibility and community. do you hear any language from this president that helps to try to bridge these two things? >> you know, at the beginning of his administration, particularly in the inaugural address, that was a deeply community focused address. instead, he did a critique of the counter culture, let it all hang out, but also a critique of the market culture. this is all about getting rich. but in the book i quote this wonderful line that clinton had, which i think captures it pretty well. take a penny out of your pocket. and on one side of the penny is the word "liberty" and the other side "to many one." and two sides, this humble piece

of currency, captures brilliantly who we are as americans. >> i said earlier if i were a progressive, i would be writing checks every day to elizabeth warren. but as a small government conservative, i see somebody like ron paul, the tea party movement, which i know a lot of people disparage, and i think finally balance. balance for a federal government that has grown from having a $4 trillion debt when i was there to an $11.5 trillion debt when bush left to a $17 trillion debt now. to a $23 trillion debt by the time barack obama is leaving. government keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. and with all due respect, i don't think there's been a lot of balance over the past three, four years. you look at the explosive size of government. and i can take you through every cabinet agency, through everything. and there would be a lot of people saying, if you want balance, then these guys like ron paul, who talk about less government, might be a good

balance to this massive explosive growth of washington. >> i can't resist noting that if we hadn't started two wars and cut taxes at the same time, the deficit wouldn't be so big. moreover, the government is taking the smaller share out of our economy in taxes right now than it has in 50 years. and i think the problem with ron paul libertarians and tea party, if you will, tea party libertarians in general, is they act as if every government action is oppressive. i'm sorry, my mother-in-law getting medicare to cover her health expenses does not oppress or preventing me from getting social security. >> the balance on the other side is democrats, liberals, pretend, act as if every dollar spent revives the economy, every new program made helps reduce the growth of chicken weed in your backyard, and helps your backhand. >> that's not true. come on. >> there is this balance.

>> we're not the soviet union. we're the united states of america. and the government doesn't take that large of the gdp compared to most other rich countries. >> there is so little balance, though, politically if you look at the money that has been spent. and you talk about the wars. you talk about the tax cuts. i can't resist reminding you that while we were saying barack obama shouldn't triple the number of troops in afghanistan, he did just that. and while we were saying, does he really want to own the bush tax cuts? he made that decision himself. it is a democratic president that has prolonged the war in afghanistan until 2022, and a democratic president that advanced the bush tax cuts another two years. >> right. well, he advanced the bush tax cuts because when you're sitting in the -- first of all, i wouldn't have advanced them myself the last time. so that's just there. but the reason that the bush tax cuts were held in place is that he didn't want to upset the

fragile economic recovery. >> so it was good for the economy? >> no. i think at that point taking money out of the economy wasn't something that anyone wanted to do. but i think the evidence is that the policies we pursued in that period were not particularly good for the economy. and the clinton tax we were richer as a country, we were growing faster, when we had a top rate of 39.6%, not 35%. but the point is that -- >> the point is that -- i'm proving your point, by pushing back out, seriously, going back and forth is -- i mean, that's critical to this republic. and its continued growth. >> free speech is good. >> that's true. the book -- >> well, let me ask you really good -- >> disagreement is one of the joys of freedom. that's the way i like to look at it. >> do you agree that one party having a monopoly in washington, in the senate, the house, and the white house, is usually not a good thing? >> to be totally straight up

with you, it depends on what they do. if they do what i think is right, i don't mind. >> as long as they agree with you. ok. the book is "our divided political heart." ej dionne, thank you so much. >> and thank you sister for watching. >> you just did. >> all right. still ahead, we'll talk to doctors zeke emanuel and nancy snyderman about how the obesity epidemic impacts the nation's economic health. and up next, chuck todd will join the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. we charge everything else... maybe it's time to recharge the human battery. only the beautyrest recharge sleep system combines the comfort of aircool memory foam layered on top of beautyrest pocketed coils to promote proper sleeping posture all night long. the revolutionary recharge sleep system from beautyrest... it's you, fully charged.

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an election update today. mitt romney met with a group of wealthy latino business owners, or as romney calls them the juan percent. >> with us now from washington, d.c., nbc news white house correspondent and political director and also the host of "the daily rundown."

>> we were at this event last night for wri. and this guy who works at a company in long island -- >> kind of freakish. >> said he had two kids around the age of 6, sang a chuck todd song. >> they have written a song about chuck todd and they run around the house singing it in the morning. >> oh, lord. what have we created? >> it's kind of disturbing. >> a political frankenstein. >> i talked to your boy, a little scary. >> what did he tell you? >> he just wanted to know if life with you was miserable all the time because you were just constantly talking about your crimson tide. i said at least spring football is over. >> by the way, he has credited me many times for bringing nick saban to the university of alabama. >> why don't you have a statue? >> bear bryant is like 4'3". saban's is like 12 feet.

nothing like sucking up to the latest guy, right? >> exactly. who's bear bryant? who? >> exactly. >> how do you spell bryant? b-r-who? >> exactly. >> chuck, we have a lot of state polls out. >> let's check the latino numbers. >> we'll get to those numbers in a second. i know you did the nbc-maris poll. there's only one we're a little bit sketchy on, you're a florida guy. even obama's people think that right now, that's a romney state. this poll suggests otherwise. >> i can tell you the difference between the two polls is the party i.d. split. they had -- one poll had more registered republicans in their sample than registered democrats. we have more democrats than registered republicans. >> that will do it. >> ours is a little bit more democratic than the exit poll was when you look at it. and you don't weight by party

i.d. pollsters don't believe in that because it changes more. it's more erratic than most others. one thing to point out is when you look at the excellent good chance of voting, which is the closest thing to likely voters as we'll call it for now, all of the leads narrow, and you have obama, romney, at 48% and 46% in florida. if you look at what it was last time, there's always a small democratic voter registration advantage come election day. it's hard to imagine any poll that would have more registered republicans than democrats. >> ok. let's go to the latino voters now. i was just reading the halperin view. it looks like mitt romney has some trouble here. just a tad thin. >> slightly. >> chuck, how does he close this gap? or is it possible when it's this large? >> well, can i tell you, i didn't understand what the point of yesterday was by romney. he

yesterday, i was surprised, for instance, no mention of even the rubio version of the dream act. i thought it was a missed opportunity yesterday by romney. especially when you look at the numbers. he has got to get to 35. he could win the campaign and lose the election on demographics if he doesn't get to 35% among hispanics. it is hard to do the math. look at the three states we just tested. do you know that if obama sweeps the west nevada, colorado, new mexico, and all three of these states bush won in '04.

if obama wins all three, and he is favored in two and it's a coin flip in nevada, all he's got to do is win virginia. he can lose florida and ohio and still -- or all he has to do is win ohio and he can lose all three southern states, virginia, florida, and north carolina. that's how important getting to 35% for romney is in the hispanic vote. because if he doesn't get there, he's not going to win nevada or colorado. >> mark halperin, you talked to mitt romney yesterday. what's his strategy? >> well, he wants to win as chuck just suggested with a broad maeng. they don't want to be in the business of making specific appeals to sort of slice and dice groups, although they are stepping up their constituency outreach in general. i think that it's one of the few areas where he'll try to get to the left of the president. you heard him talk about that yesterday talking about education, saying the people who suffer most from a bad education system in america are minority groups, are nonwhite people.

and i think that message is very much kind of a karl rove, george bush strategy for republicans. rick perry did this in his announcement speech and was very eyecatching, to say the president has not -- policies have not served people who are less well off and who need more educational opportunity. >> i have a very dark view of this, which is i don't think it's a problem that romney can solve in a positive way. i think there's going to be maybe the most negative campaign across all of this is going to be a viciously negative campaign against obama by both romney campaign and the republican super pacs that will attack him from the left, saying deportations at an historic high with obama. they will attack him from the middle saying he failed on immigration reform. on the right on gay marriage. and the goal of the campaign will not be to be turn the vote shares but turn down the hispanic vote. try to turn down the overall

vote and not get hurt as badly if they can get the hispanics to stay home. >> the republicans were bashing a lot of people thought, bashing hispanics during the primary process. but independent of that, a lot of hispanic voters not pleased with president obama and the promises he has not kept over the past three years. >> right. promises he made on the campaign trail and continued to articulate as president, saying, you know, we need to do this, we need to do this. and yet deportations are up. enforcement overall is up. there are some people who -- supporters of the president who say enforcement is up, as a way for the president to show the republicans that, you know, he is doing something about the border. he is doing something about illegal immigration in the hopes that they will rally around and do some comprehensive immigration reform. folks who thought this was going to get done in the first term, you know, obviously are really disappointed.

and if president obama gets a second term, the pressure will be on him to actually get something done. >> yeah. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. we'll see you on "the daily rundown" right after "morning joe." >> thank you, chuck. and we'll get the tune of that song and sing it to you. >> yeah, i hope they're going to be ok. >> yeah, i hope so too. >> they might be troubled. up next, what a congressional hearing revealed about misconduct at the secret service. it turns out there were problems long before last month's trip to columbia. keep it right here on "morning joe." sometimes, i feel like it's me against my hair.

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i just think that between the alcohol and, i don't know, the environment, these individuals did some really dumb things. and i just can't explain why they would have done what they would do. but i tell you that i do not believe they did it because they believed that this type of behavior would be tolerated. >> it is hard for many people, including me, i will admit, to believe that on one night, in april 2012 in cartegena, columbia, 12 secret service

agents there to protect the president suddenly and spontaneously did something they or other agents had never done before. >> that was secret service director mark sullivan and senator joe lieberman during a congressional inquiry into allegations that a dozen agents solicited prostitutes in columbia last month. during questioning, the panel learned that during the salt lake city olympics back in 2002, agents had been disciplined for partying with underaged women. and another employee was fired in 2008 for soliciting a prostitute in washington, d.c., who turned out to be an undercover police officer. sullivan apologized on behalf of the agency but insisted the incidents are not part of a larger problem. >> yeah. yeah. >> sorry. >> these are the guys that are protecting our president. i wonder how happy michelle obama is with that. >> not part of a larger problem. >> i would be so angry if i were a family member. i have a quiz for you.

a tv quiz for you guys. >> ok. >> and this -- >> "gunsmoke." >> and the subject is les moonves and brilliance. they have the top 20 shows. of the scripted shows that are in the top 20 shows, how many are not cbs? >> scripted top 20? >> scripted top 20. >> how many are not? >> are not cbs' shows. >> three. >> two. >> two. two out of 20. two out of 20. i mean -- >> what are the two? >> yeah. >> hold on. first of all, "ncis los angeles." you look at "the big bang theory." "2 1/2 men." "criminal minds." >> "60 minutes." >> as far as scripted shows, les has it down. the two that are not, "modern family," which is just a great show. >> great show. >> and a show i've never really heard of.

"castle." what's that? do we know? >> it's a show about chess. >> i don't think so. >> it's a dungeons and dragons things? >> there's a show about mike calf? >> i don't think it's mike castle. up next, is our political system even worse than it looks? yes. the authors of a new book says that dysfunctional government is squandering our economic future. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ [ lauer ] this is our team. and unlike other countries, it's built by your donations, not government funding. and now, to support our athletes, you can donate a stitch in america's flag for the 2012 olympic games in london. help raise our flag, add your stitch at teamusa.org.

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book "it's even worse than it looks." >> oh, great. >> how can it be worse than it looks? because it looks pretty bad, don't you think? >> what do you mean worse? >> it's worse because people don't really understand the sources of the problem. they imagine a situation that actually is rather timid and tame compared to what's going on. we haven't been through a period in which there is such an aggressive effort which entails really an oppositional parliamentary like attack on the majority party, using any means available, but because we operate in separation of power system where majorities are very

hard to marshall to approve anything, we face absolute gridlock. so it's not they are all corrupt. it's much worse than that. >> and talking to people in washington, members of congress and senators, you get a sense they don't know how to turn it around. i mean, that's what scares me a little bit. >> norm, whether we're talking to democrats, or whether we're talking to republicans, they really want to get things done. it seems as a collective group. the party structure is not letting them do it. >> it's tribal politics right now. and we've seen lots of countries where people live together peacefully for a very long period of time, and then all of a sudden the tribal wars took them in places they didn't want to go. and that's what we are seeing. >> you're saying congress is our version of rwanda? >> well, maybe yugoslavia. and that's not good. and particularly because you see these huge problems, short and long-term, and that's part of the reason why we wrote this book at this point and took a stand that's pretty

controversial. we see pretty big problems in the country. and if you can't begin to solve them and you divide into tribes in this way, to use another analogy, it's "the war of the roses." and we know how that book and movie ended. >> whenever we have a big challenge in america, we try to solve it rather than just bemoaning it. so the election outcome, what do you think would give us the most optimism that some of the bad trends could start to change? >> we've said because we have parliamentary politics in a nonparliamentary culture, some of the things we may want to change would enable a majority to work. but i think a divided system at this point with probably an obama presidency and maybe one house that's republican. >> that's what we have now, though. >> but if he wins re-election, then you have four more years. i don't think the house of representatives is going to change no matter what. it's going to go more polarize said. the senate, though, i think in for two years, knowing obama will be there for four, you'll find the center may not be enough, and it may not be enough

to coerce the house. but if it's 2-1, then have you something different. >> i have a slightly different take on that. i really believe that dividing government doesn't work when the parties are so polarized because the opposition party of the president has every incentive to make him fail and not work on behalf of the government. all the talk about bipartisanship, we must bring them together and build consensus, is nonsense. sadly, it's nonsense. i'd love to have it. but given the nature of the pears it doesn't happen. so right now, in my view, what we need is what we probably won't get in this election. we need one side or the other to have complete control to be able to move through a program. >> so you think political monopolies work. i was saying to ej who was on earlier that i feared political monopolies because it seems you have one side or the other lurching too far left or too far

right. but you say that's good? >> not forever, but to get out of the morass we are in right now. and, listen, the democrats have become a center left party since bill clinton. they went through their crazy days, and the '60s and '70s. the republicans have veered sharply to the right. if democrats controlled all of government, and could deal with filibusters, my guess is it would be a pretty centrist program that moves through. and republicans facing that defeat would allow their moderate pragmatic members to re-emerge and find an agenda for the party that the american people could live with. >> when democrats had the exact control you described the first two years of the obama administration, do you think they governed center left or far left? >> no question, it was center left. take every piece of legislation. the affordable care act. >> huh? we're all looking at each other. no question.

>> the affordable care act. where did it come from? it was a republican proposal. >> mitt romney. >> it was. it was a conservative idea. >> not just romney. it was the republican alternative to the clinton plan. it's markets. it's exchanges. >> well, we would disagree here. >> no, joe, it was a conservative idea. >> listen, i think the reason the system works is because bill clinton got elected in 1992. and i think he went too far left. voters two years later were able to knock him back. republicans took over in '94. and i have always said in many ways we went too far right. voters answered, knocked us back to the center. and bill clinton gets re-elected. and over the next four years, balanced the budget for the first time in a generation. four years in a row for the first time since 1920s. passed welfare reform. 20 million new jobs were created. that's how it's worked for 235 years. you disagree, though? >> i do. >> well, the seeds of that, joe,

you know, we did get, in '96, because newt wanted to keep a majority, some strong cooperation. the seeds of the balanced budget were set well before that. the 1990 budget agreement, the 1993 economic plan which neither republican in the house voted for. then impeachment -- >> now, wait a second. stop. how in the world can you say that? i'm sorry. i like both you guys. hold on. this is so one-sided, though. you ignored in 1995 what we did in 1995 with democrats screaming and yelling we were throwing senior citizens out of the street and killing little babies. you had us saving medicare when the medicare trustee said that medicare was going bankrupt and bill clinton shamelessly demagoguing it. one fight after another. john kasich passing the first balanced budget plan in a generation. you guys are acting as if the democrats are the only keepers of honesty and truth.

how can you not say the 1990s weren't bipartisan and it wasn't both parties coming together to do good things? >> some bipartisanship, certainly, for a period. but you also is newt set the scenes for the tribal politics that followed. we had impeachment, which took us away what we were right at, social security solution. i remember someone almost crying. and then moved on, what paper the parliamentary process that '9 '93-94 brought in. look at them now. nobody's willing to work across the aisle. the first two years of the obama administration. a lot accomplished. the problem with united government we don't have the a parliamentary culture. half the system is saying it's all illegitimate. >> my point after i say that and everybody looks around, impeach in 1999. my point, even with a constitutional crisis, president clinton and republicans were working behind the scenes and

actually still passing some constructive legislation. >> joe, by the time the 1997 balanced budget agreement was passed, the budget was balanced. as a consequence of the first president bush and president clinton, in both cases, with -- with almost no republican support, because by then -- >> and no spending cuts. >> -- there were no new taxes. clinton was spending -- >> in '96, didn't matter? >> it did. it did. the republicans came around after trying to close government down and succeeded, and they came around and made a deal on welfare reform, but, remember. clinton ran on that. he ran on that. >> vetoed welfare reform twice and forced to sign it the third time, even though the democratic base went absolutely crazy. you know what? we were living in different times in 1995 and '96. >> there's such a myth about the 1997 balanced budget agreement.

you know what it was? it was the children's health insurance program that increased spending. that was major component -- the other, you know how they saved money? they saved money by what is now called the doc-fix. they had a new formula for medicare reimbursement, but alas, they couldn't live with it. so every year -- >> it had nothing to do with spending cuts? >> no. there's no net spending cuts in that deal. i'm sorry. it's in the book. it's even worse than it looks. >> 1997, i'm talking about the real recisions that livinliving ran in 1995. democrats made holy hell you would have thought we throwing grandma's and little kids into the street. compared with conner. you talked a lot about extremism on the right. we were compared to bull conner because we wanted school lunch

programs to grow 4% instead of 6%. and i think until we admit that whatever party is out of power in washington these days is too extreme, rhetoric is too red hot and they'll do anything to get into power, i don't think this is a persuasive government. >> let's talk about when george bush came into election. most controversial election in 100 years or more. could have been destroyed in the beginning in democrats wanted to stomp on him. instead two priorities. no child left behind. they saved his presidency by giving him an early big bipartisan victory. ted kennedy and george miller, and then it was democratic votes that brought the tax cuts through. okay? now we bring it to today. president wins in a landslide. 70%, worst economy since the great depression, 3 1/2 weeks in, not a single republican vote. >> so they saved his presidency by passing no child left behind?

>> they gave him a -- >> the point is, democrats, really in that sense are the party of governing, and they want government to work, and so they can't play quite the opposition role republicans do. >> this is a fantastic conversation. the book is, "it's even worse than it looks." read an excerpt on our blog. mojoe@msnbc. [ laughter ] [ grunting ] huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. america's number one weed killer. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. guaranteed. weeds won't play dead, they'll stay dead.

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wake up. take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back win us on set, we have mark halperin, john heilemann and andy serwer, and a lot to talk about. andy. facebook. >> yeah. ooh. >> wow. >> whew! >> should we just go right there? >> first of all, i want to congratulate andy. somebody on the cover other than john roberts, and -- >> every once in a while we dip into our bag of tricks. >> amazing. >> and baseball, somewhere a pooch is a little unhappy. >> yeah. >> i saw this thing about gus grissom and the right stuff. >> exactly. this is, my god. it couldn't have gone worse for these guys. >> yeah. a bunch of things that happenedthhappened. they god greedy. facebook. increased size of the offering. screw-ups, pardon the expression, of nasdaq. worse is the fact it looks lick information that went from the

company to the analysts that went to certain investors. big surprise. institutional investors, professionals weren't aware of, left out of the little guys. >> major big name companies. let's just get the basics here. >> quickly, one story quickly and talk to the game change boys about this. the dangers of a bain strategy, have always been frustrating as a republican for 15, 20 years, since bill clinton was president, how the media would always talk about how wall street is in the pocket of republicans and the biggest players on wall street gave money to democrats, for the most part. this was big this year. in the "new york times," talks how that strategy has frayed and how this is very dangerous for the democrats in the long run, because wall street has been their money machine, and map y t

be the case after the bain strategy. >> even before, the president met a lot of people in the business community. both sides will have a lot of money. i woke up this morning seized with the thought about this, which is, neither side is talking as much about the future as you normally need to do in a presidential campaign. focus on bain is too backward-looking. i know they're trying to take out mitt romney but if the president gives wall street a reason to think he'll be a great second-term president, might get some of that back. >> and bill clinton, again, t triangulated better than anybody else. >> wall street has a as a financial atm for the president is pretty much gone. not baup he alienated a lot of them, didn't court them, whatever you want to call it. you know, bill clinton was the

master of donor maintenance. barack obama is not, but on top of that, you have a situation where for a lot of wall street donors, they look at mitt romney and they don't see a guy -- even the democrats. they don't see a guy they hate. rich republicans, rich republican business people look at the president like he's the devil. rich democratic donors on wall street don't look at mitt romney and think he's the devil. disagree on social issues but seems like a good guy. >> this is the outflow after reagan. you had a party starting in 1992 that was run by southerners for the most part. newt gingrich and karl rove, and -- god, i cannot believe i'm -- >> tom delay. >> well, tom delay, i'm thinking about the south carolina strategists. >> lee atwater. >> that in 1988 this became lee atwater's race as far as wall street was concerned and mitt romney changed -- >> the republican, perceived on

wall street. >> look at him, and when you think about the way that, you know, there's a bundal of money but also this, the big question hovering over the president's reease lection campaign, why are they not writing big checks to his superpac? and a lot will say on wall street, i write a big check to those guy, run incredibly neg niv ads against me and i don't think romney is that bad a guy. i don't want to run a $5 million check, my name in newspaper, incredibly negative ads who, again, i disagree on social issues, might be for the president, but i don't hate romney. republican look at that, we think he's horrible and are perfectly happy to write checks to superpacs. >> he's one of them and just -- >> spent three days here raking in $10 million, $15 million. very comfortable with wall

street. >> a huge element on wall street also who loves him. i mean, all of private equity, all of venture capital. leaving aside the critical democrats who are on the sidelines a little as you suggest, but a lot of people really support him. >> let's talk about the meltdown. >> the facebook, face plant. coming under fire for investors who are now suing the company and ceo mark zuckerberg for allegedly withholding negative information about the social network's initial public offering. facebook's core group of underwriters, morgan stanley, sachs and jpmorgan chase, using mobile devices to access the social media site. according to the lawsuit, one of the primary reasons banks lowered facebook's earnings estimate for the rest of the year. the group of investors behind the case say they've lost more than $2.5 billion since facebook

went public last week. in washington facebook has caught the eyes of the senate banking committee and house financial services committee, both conducting investigations into the opipo. yesterday gained $1 closing at $32 a share. >> and only down now about $100 million. >> yeah. >> in a few days. $150 million, give or take a few million. >> right. well, i mean, the issue here is one of what called selective disclosure. tell one group one thing and another group another thing. first group gets the advantage. unfortunately during the ipo process it's not clear whether or not that's illegal. just ask yourself. it violates common sense. suppose i told you one thing. i didn't tell you another thing. how would you feel? you tell the people on wall

street that you tell these analyst, tell the guys at the investment banks, put yourself in their shoes. if they hide behind some sort of fig leaf of legality, we didn't technically vileate the law hvi here. it's bad. >> what about it appears that morgan stanley and all of these other people rushed in, overvalued this stock. you have an idiot like me that's never -- i do not -- i do not invest in stocks. i think it's -- i think it's like las vegas, but even looking at it, all in your face. never reading financial -- financial papers, ft or whatever, as far as digging into the markets. you just knew. this was overvalued. why did the fools on wall street rush in and get it? >> is this a surprise? >> it's a surprise they messed it up. it's at keystone cops scenario. >> the biggest ever. >> right. >> they screwed up the biggest ipo ever. >> and it's the nasdaq which is

the vaunted exchange of tech companies, morgan stanley is the banker of tech companies. goldman sachs, jpmorgan, they should have known better. the thing that also ticks me off is the fact that facebook is holier than thou. this is more than commerce. we're creating a social -- around the world, don't care about money. increasing the price continuously and increasing the size of the offering. there's a lot of players that you can point fingers to. facebook, nasdaq, investment bankers and makes people distrust wall street and distrust -- >> the ghost of henry blotchen, the guy that worked for merrill and had called a stock of pos privately and then publicly would go on cnbc and say this is the greatest ever, going up to 400. you're smirking. what's wrong? did you hang out with him in

brooklyn? >> you saw -- put a smile on his face. >> this happened 12 years ago and it's happened -- >> same as ever. is that while you're smirking, john? >> i have multiple reasons for smirking. >> my french accent. >> but the thing that andy says and most makes me smirk because i cove arerd the ipo movement in the late 1990s this nexus between silicon valley and the banks and the analyst, it's just -- it's like, just rotten. >> and diminution. >> think about eliot spitzer, the investigations launched. we have these things. >> you pick your bubble. >> jack -- the best story. what he did whip the city. let me kid into the 92nd street y and i will, give you my twins in the 92nd street y kindergarten and give a buy recommendation. did some buy recommendation. his keds get into the 92nd y and

then suddenly -- michael kelley laid this ow beautifully back in 2002. >> i think michael kelley wrote about it. maybe he'll fit as well. >> but that how rotten it s. every time there's a bubble, the same abuses get expose again and again. lawsuits are instigated. law reform is proposed, people say it will never happen again. we've all learned our lesson and the next time there's a big, fat pot of money. the exact same thing happens again and people again -- it's just -- you know, it's like nightfall is dead and the sunrise is in the east. >> the conversation here, we had everyone, they were voicing concerns. we were pointing on concern s pointing on advertising issues. what are we missing? >> that's part of the reason the ipo tanked.

they pushed it up so high. there as the gm thing. no demand at that time. >> did it turn back several days before when people were voicing concerns? i don't know how it works. >> lower the prices? yes. would have been a black eye, don't want to dot it. less money, less money, less money. >> you named organizations who had some responsibility. who are the individuals? who at facebook should not have let this happen? >> the cfo, for one thing. >> who's that? >> dave eversman, a respected chief financial officer. sheryl samberg, recused herself because she and her husband had a relationship with morgan stanley. so she stepped back, but mark zuckerberg is the ceo of the company. he's ultimately responsible, and there's going to be, as you suggest, a lot of investigating. but we'll see what comes of it. it's going to be hard to punish people and that's going to be very frustrating for people, again and again and again. >> i guess the reason why we

were able to sit around this table and say this was garbage last week is because we all went through what happened in the late 1990s. talking about the ipos. always hear about these wonderful ipos and it was just like in florida back five years ago. somebody put a trailer up on a vacant lot and all of, a 40-story condo sold out before they put the first stake in there. the same thing happened. it was like -- >> let's just say one thing. i heard you guys talk about this a lot on the show last week and, you know, this isn't a slightly -- different situation. a lot of companies in the original dotcom, no profits, nothing. selling eyeballs. impressions, all they had. >> not even that potential eyeball. >> no revenues or profits. this is not a company without revenues. it's got substantial revenues and a company with profits. >> $1 billion. >> and more eyeballs than anyone

has ever had. >> 900 million. >> so this is not a paper company. this is a company that has a substantial business and substantial potential business model and a future where it could be a successful company in the world. but -- >> you get a lot of coulds, potentials. >> $1 billion in profit. >> and yet a lot of coulds, potential, maybes, yet it was the highest ipo offering ever. >> but this is -- >> that is the -- >> but this is the point. this isn't heads.com. it's -- >> soft company. >> it's at company that hall $1 billion in profits and 4. revenues. the question, who got so greedy is to push the price beyond reasonable? who got so greedy as to cut these corners? >> let's go right now to your magazine. >> right. >> and "fortune," and talk about why we would understand if apple had an extraordinarily high ipo,

because how they've changed the world. >> a machine. >> how its machine, how they make things and how you know that three months from now there's not going to be somebody that comes up with an extraordinary idea that displaces apple? whereas facebook is a bit more tenuous. >> well, the products they've put out, of course, we talked about this many, many times, are remarkable. and steve jobs is gone. tim cook has been the ceo since last august, and he's changing the company. the product still exists. there are question, of course, as to whether or not he's going to continue to be able to roll out the incredible products that steve jobs did, but he's changing the company. he's making it a little bit more open. a little bit more corporate, quite frankly, but sometimes in ways that are actually good. it's hard to say if corporate's good, but in terms of not sitting on all that cash. giving some back to shareholders and making apple philanthropic, something steve jobs didn't do at all.

mbas there are now, professional management and less fear. someone out to lunch with smub from apple, yeah, i have time for coffee. before, no one at apple would have ever said that. you went out to lunch with somebody at apple they would run back to the office. some suggest that's a bad thing, of course, that apple's not the way it used to be. it can never be. >> talk about tim cook. he is, if i'm not mistaken, somebody told me he's an auburn guy. >> he is. >> from my neck of the woods. he's from southern alabama. >> yes. he is -- he's an auburn guy and he's a big sports fan. >> is he really? >> he is. >> i'll even say war eagle this morning. that's tough for you to say, but if you run in apple, you get that. >> starting to see a little bit more of him emerge. i mean, apple is regarded about tim but he's coming out. has met with regulators in washington, d.c. made the rounds in new york. met with investors. all of that is very different from steve jobs, who wouldn't deign to meet particularly with

investors. wom dete would detest it. some sf these things are funny, some are smart. but tim's a different guy. you don't ask at apple, what would steve have done? you ask, supposedly, what's right for apple? getting away from the cult of steve. it will never be the same company. it's changing slowly but maybe for the better in some regards. >> well -- coming up next, doctors ezekiel emanuel and dr. nancy snyderman, the growing number of teens with diabetes including it's implications on health care. >> bring up digit many exams, too. she loves talking about that. >> no. you need to learn to talk about that. learn to talk about obesity and you guys need to seriously get over the fact that you need exams that sometimes are a little uncomfortable. welcome to our world. okay? simply put, the fatter the nation is, the more you pay. talk about that as well. also, the men who dressed

america. j. crew we be able to fromnt fr brand. plus, the west coast morning paper, first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> just checking. not j. crew today. good morning, everyone. watching a storm. worst waeneather in the country minneapolis. over the next hour or two, should clear out. the airport will be okay. chilly in the northern rockies in the northwest. the hot air that was in the south, expanding and heading east. big warm-up underway this coming weekend. jump ahead. not a lot going on the next two days. the holiday weekend, showers and storms plague the northern half of country. also watching, if you have beach plans from the carolinas to georgia to florida, could be a tropical development or area of low pressure developing off the southeast coast bringing showers and storms to florida going through sunday. maybe not the best weekend to be in florida, but still sunny and

warm, at least in the morning hours. strong storms late in the day sunday in the northern plains. then as we get to memorial day, a lot of parades around the country. looking at a pretty dry forecast, especially in the morning. really, no big weather concerns out there as we go to monday. just showers and storms in the southeast. get ready for the heat in st. louis. i got you in the mid-90s over the holiday weekend. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i've been crisscrossing the gulf for the past two years now. i can tell you, down here, people measure commitment by what's getting done. i'm mike utsler, and it's my job to make sure we keep making progress in the gulf. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. another fourteen billion dollars has been spent on response and cleanup. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar

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yeah. all right. >> welcome back to msnbc news.

chief medical editor dr. nancy snyderman. >> free advice. >> and former white house adviser for health policy, and university of pennsylvania vice provost doctor. >> ezekiel emanuel. we move on to obesity. talk first about the latest findings, nancy. just -- it's an epidemic. >> it's an epidemic. >> and it's going to cost not only lives but cost us hundreds of billions of dollars. >> oh, joe, i think this is the most non-partisan thing you'll hear out of my mouth. there's no money in the bank to cover what we're talking about. a budget breaker from the fraught government, to states, to schools. we cannot afford the obesity epidemic as it's going. teenagers getting gastric bypass surgery. increase risked of heart disease, stroke. impactor forecancer. prostate cancer the other day.

men don't want rectal exams, they want the blood test. >> you had to say that. >> hold on. >> reality -- >> coming down, you said the magic word. go ahead. >> obesity is an independent perspective for cancer. right up there with cigarette smoking. this is a real issue. and legs and knees that don't work, starts with obesity. >> and zeke, considering over the next 30 years the federal government, if you allow this to grow as they are, hundreds spent on revenue on medicare and medicaid and basically being a massive insurance company. so the impact of this epidemic on the largest drivers of spending for medicare and medicaid is staggering. >> yeah. you know, when i was working in the white house, on the one hand working on health care reform but also working on the first lady's "let's move" initiative and always thought that they worked together. one trying to reform the health care system, and the delivery of

care, and the other trying to prevent as nancy said, the tsunami of a very big problem. and i do think that the first lady and all the awareness that we've had now about the epidemic is going to change things. the question is, is it going to change it fast enough, and are we going to really gelt our arms around it and realize that every segment of society bears some responsibility. whether you're state and local governments, to make sure kids have places to exercise. get gym in school. whether you're the food manufacturers and the processors to make sure -- >> let me stop you route there, be in school. you're old enough, you are, halperin old enough to remember john f. kennedy said he would make american kids more fit. the president's fitness tests. all the kids across america did it. i've heard mika talking about, check the food, check the food, check the food. and my experience, i ate garbage, but i ran 24 hours a day. and i just wonder why we aren't pushing p.e. more than we are

for education reform? it's critical. >> joe, i think there are two things. first of all, i bet you ate less garbage than you think, and i bet your portion sizes were smaller than they are today, but the second thing is, a lot of schools have had to cut back not only p.e., but recess and after-school intramural sports where a lot of kids burned off a lot of energy and calories because of budget cuts, because of safety concerns and insurance concerns. i think we need to recognize that the big concern here is the obesity concern, and that put those things back in. they're also good for getting kids to burn off energy and concentrate in classes. >> there's no doubt about it. i mean, we've got a 3-year-old kid. even at 3 years old, when he's bouncing off the walls and causing problems, you are know what i do? i take him outside and start running around. i'm dead serious. he's fine. mika, we had the most

fascinating lunch with one of the leaders of the charter school movement, and he kept telling us about all the accomplishments and all the great things that his students were doing in math and science and how advanced they had become from -- from one of the most challenges parts of new york and said, you know what we notice when we look down the hall, yeah, you got them going to school six day as week, expanded hours, they love being there. they're fat. therapy obese. when are you going to start focusing on that? >> so i want to talk to nancy about actually using those words and getting there in the national conversation. something i'm writing about. but also writing about this, joe. i get your point about p.e. i get your point about kids needing to move. we all know jerexercise is necessary. but you can be thin and very unhealthy. >> true. skinny is not healthy. >> no guarantee your body will be healthy throughout your life if you eat the crap sold in most of the nation's grocery stores and bodagas and convenience

stores. >> you and i talked about putting certain words back in the american economy. fat is one. obese, i say someone's fat, i'm really calling somebody out. i've got -- boy, i got to tell you, a lot of twitter messages saying, how rude. what an awful thing to say subpoena that's the point. this is a word that exists. fat describes something. if i say it you know what it looks like. if i pour it in a bottle. you know what it looks like on the human body. you know what it looks like if someone is that. we have to start talking plainer and not dancing around. it's not like talking about race to me. dance around these things because we don't want to say it straight. gets what, folks? we're running out of time. >> separate say, get straight, from stigmatizing children in a way that's not got for them. >> i agree completely. >> like they've done something wrong. >> first of all, children are responsible by and large what they put in their mouths and get habits mostly instilled by parents and the social culture they're in. the second thing is, we know

that fat kids have a stigma and have very bad mental health. in fact, their mental health is worse on average than kids who have cancer. so we -- we already have a problem there. i think the issue is to give them solutions to the problem and work with that. and we really need to remember, it's about habit formation, and one of our problems is, early on we form the habit in kids that eating and laying on the couch is the right thing, and i think we go back to joe's point about starting at 3 years old is probably too late. we need to start right away. eating well and getting them to move. i used to, with my kids, when they were doing homework. all right. we're taking a two-minute break and all going to do 25 jumping jacks or run around, because you've got to balance these things out. and i do think that while we have to use the word, or we have to be honest about the problem. we also shouldn't stigmatize the weakest part with our kids. >> so dr. zeke and dr. nancy, so

what's the best way to get about this? to go about this? is it, you know, through regulations? is it through it private business? is it all of the above? the economy? >> the perfect storm, it's going to take everything. nonprofit i love called the fair food network right in the heart of america taking care of detroit's poorest and it's basically linking farms and good food and portion size back to kids and linking back the physical education, and zeke just pointed, touched on something. kids who are obese, their brains start to show dementia at an early age. we may be looking at early onset alzheimer's. the story of broken agriculture, gro broken school, parents in poverty and everything's come together on this generation. >> so i would say, look at our very successful public health campaigns that have really made a major change. smoking and seat belts. and both of them came out initially with documentation about the health problems, and

then recognized that, you have to take a 360-degree approach. everyone has responsibility here, and we have to do everything -- >> didn't it take a lawsuit, ultimately? didn't it take court action, ultimately? >> i don't think it's -- i think it's a mistake in the smoking, to say it was one thing. >> zeke, would you tax sodas like we did cigarettes? >> do i think we should? >> yeah. >> because that helped with cigarettes. >> i'm not against it. [ laughter ] >> oh, my god. that's adorable. >> you did learn something. >> okay, mitt. >> i'm for it, and i know everyone is for progressive tax. everyone says taxing cigarettes is aggressive. you know what? it changes things, when it costs a lot more money. >> drinking, it's just -- what we're drinking. pleasant. thank you. dr. emanuel and dr. sneiderman,

thank you. schools making sure the entire graduates class is headed to college. exciting. more education reform. digger phelps is in memphis and he's got the story next. now you can apply sunblock to your kids' wet skin. neutrogena® wet skin kids. ordinary sunblock drips and whitens. neutrogena® wet skin cuts through water. forms a broad spectrum barrier for full strength sun protection. wet skin. neutrogena®.

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were back. joining us now -- >> a lot of discussion. >> you guys busy? >> yeah. hey -- >> sony's collapse in the electronics sphere. up know, it's one of the great story, but on the other side you have ibm. who reinvented themselves. faced the chang and survived. that's a case study right there. >> consulting and services company. ebay, sohn, a lot of discussions about sony buying apple in '97-98 that jobs eventually said, no. >> if they had done that. >> the world would be a different place. >> and they would have made digger phelps there ceo. >> we'd be having lunch together. >> we would. >> for you, it's unbelievable. joining us now from the soulsville charlotter school in memphis, tonight graduating

their first-ever class of 51 college-bound senior, digger phelps and the school's executive director in a shawnte brown. thank you both for being on the show. congratulations, neshante brown. >> 100% have been accepted to college. 75% of them will be first in their families to go to college. >> wow. >> and we are just super excited around here. >> digger -- >> amazing about it, mika and joe, too, she's being a little shy. these kids going to college have receive $3.6 million in scholarships. a classic in american education. this school started in 200 ed 5 >> before the 60 very excited,

nervous sixth graders arrived, we had a dream. expose them to a great education and a chance to secure varied life opportunities and to get college and life success. >> fantastic. >> jonathan capehart with the "washington poechltst" is here. jonathan? >> what are the rules, ms. brown? what is it about your school that has made it so successful? >> well, there are a few things. two main things. one is academic rigor. our team is very strong. we begin with the end in mind. we start before the school year ever starts, our great staff plans, knowing what kids neemd to know need to know by the end of the year and march towards that and assist kids along the way. another big part.

our culture. strong or character education. we have five core values. they are community, respect, integrity, scholarship and empathy, and our kids rise to their feet every morning and say the soulsville creed, which incorporates those five core values. >> amazing about this school, they use music as the hook. because the music academy is right next do where obviously soul music started in the '50s. that's why it's called soulsville school. they get an hour and a half of music but go to class 8:00 to 5:00 in english, math, reading and as well as saturdays have programs. >> tell me about these sixth graders, having maybe a fourth grade level. how did you bring them up to par and they tr getting $3.6. in scholarships to go to college? >> the key was securing really

great teachers. teachers can have a really big impact on the progression of children. we really focused on getting great teachers in the building. we did that. with those teachers, executing planning very well and assessing the students they were able to progress them. >> walk to class, after ever class rings reading a book. >> we knew their reading 4re6 i was behind. anytime they're waiting,s they should be reading. in a bathroom line, they're reading's if they are waiting in the lunch line, we said, they should be reading. of course, it's something they enjoy reading, but the kids, that's why we decided to do it. >> you know, mika, all of these success stories, and this is such a remarkable success story, it's the kids who were responsible apartment the end of the day but it all starts with a great leader and we certainly have one here. incredible job. >> thank you so much, digger. thank you as well. fantastic story. >> this is one of the

character -- i mean when we go around the kircountry and look what's happening. this is a model for me. this is a classic. the whole nation should take a lesson what's going on in this social charter school. american education can fight back and take the challenges for this global economy. it's happening here. >> digger here. >> and take note with what's happening whip the soulsville foundation as well. >> thank you so much. thank you for being on the show. up next, inside the j. crew empire. the man who dressed america. ke keepit right heave on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ [ lauer ] this is our team. and unlike other countries, it's built by your donations, not government funding. and now, to support our athletes,

you can donate a stitch in america's flag for the 2012 olympic games in london. help raise our flag, add your stitch at teamusa.org. for the 2012 olympic games in london.

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>> mika, sony, apple, almost americaned in the 1990s. >> i'm fascinated. >> a book in the making. we are going to do a book on the making of "band on the run." maybe do a book on this. >> the same book. >> john heilemann i think we need to take a break. >> i'm thinking -- >> right now, from new york stock exchange, cnbc's "squawk on the street" david faber. fascinating story that you have. >> yes. you know, j.crew, a name many people know. not as many know the man behind it. just wearing a blue blazer and a pair of jeans, a lot of people sap that's the guy that started that and turned around the gap back in the mid-80s and went on to maim j.crew a name we all know as well. >> talking about steve jobs.

of course, talking about his success, why companies work. why they don't work, how they transform america, transform business. man, this is a guy you've been profiling that has changed america in a big way. >> yeah. no doubt. no doubt. from the making sort of fashion his passion, which it is. i didn't mean to rhyme there. >> way to go. >> but, you know, bringing into the masses in a way. and trying to bring quality to the masses, also. both at the gap, of course. this is -- you know, he joined that company, $400 million in sales. discount jeans retailer. made it the gap we all know today that's, of course, suffered hard times once he left, but he was forced out. bring up steve jobs. steve jobs was on the board of the gap. actually the guy who told mickey drexler you've been fired after a couple of tough years and drexler still is on the board of apple and actually credited -- >> interesting. >> yeah. >> before we get to the whole facebook story here's a clip from j.crew and the moan who

dressed america. >> when he was fired this source of inspiration came with it. 1904, worn by some guy named -- now it's going to be worn by your customers. >> yeah. we hope, for sure. yeah. when it comes to shirt design or pattern design, the archives vintage old is always new if it's right and if it's edited together, but these books ar priceless. they're xroid marry. extraordinary. the thomas mason for j.crew collection is a mix of j.crew fit with classic shirt fabrics. which drexler says are among the finest in the world. >> and can you catch j.crew and the man who dressed america tonight at 10:00 eastern and pacific time. david, looks like another good one. before you go, let's talk about-doctor. >> sure. >> -- facebook. a lot of people feel like they saw this coming. is that fair? >> well, you know, i don't think any of us anticipated, mika,

that it would fall below the $38 offering price and perform as poorly in the stock market as it has. i think that is still something of a surprise. we knew that the company was going to be valued at a very high number. over $100 billion, when it became public last friday and knew growth seemed to be slowing a bit. although it's hard to say they're trying to manage this transition from accesses your facebook on desktop to doing it on the phone, mobile transition. hard to realize it would get as bad as it has. >> david, thank you so much. >> you know, david, he is a guy that makes fashion his passion every day. >> you know me, joe. oh, yeah. everybody day, baby. >> use that. >> all right. good luck on the special. thank you so much. the west coast paper is next on "morning joe."

if you made a list of countries from around the world... ...with the best math scores. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this.

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morning, san francisco chronicle, the president kicks off day two of a fund-raising swing through california. expected to net $4 million, raised $49 million in california so far. two weeks ago raised $15 million hosting a fund-raiser with george clooney. >> from the "los angeles times," the space x rocket is expected to dock at the international space station tomorrow. it's going to become the first

private spacecraft to link up with the space station. >> up next, what, if anything did we learn today? >> i learned something. >> oh, i did, too. >> about the great gatsby. >> there you go. i've been crisscrossing the gulf for the past two years now. i can tell you, down here, people measure commitment by what's getting done. i'm mike utsler, and it's my job to make sure we keep making progress in the gulf. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. another fourteen billion dollars has been spent on response and cleanup. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to the gulf of mexico research initiative...

to support ten years of independent scientific research on the environment. results will continue to be shared with the public. and we're making sure people know that the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues, but that doesn't mean our job is done. bp's still here, and we're still committed to seeing this through.

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learned today. a very special guest here. >> yes. >> working at nbc now for -- >> four years, eleven months. >> an electrician, going to retire a week from friday. >> right. >> and the biggest shock is, who you're related to. >> yes. >> who are you related to? >> jonathan. >> jonathan! you dress so much better than jonathan. that was a big disconnect for me. >> the reason why i am here, the reason why i get to do what i do is because my uncle let me in the building, tock me with him to the "nightly news" office where i met a woman who gave me the name of k. bradley to get an internship on the "today" show. >> fantastic. >> so -- >> congratulations. >> thank you so much. that is great. >> congratulations. >> nice. >> fantastic. mark, if it's way too early what time it is? >> it's exactly "morning joe" time. but now stay tuned for