we asked you at the top of the shower what you're doing up at this hour. dan, what have you got? >> chris writes, i'm up preparing my tail salad. for your information, there's no such thing as a tofu burger. we make burgers -- >> who is the we? by the way, there are tofu burgers, aren't? i sent out a tweet last night like i was talking to my priest. i was on twitter. i was in an airport yesterday where i picked up, bought with my own money, "us weekly's" commemorative one direction boy band issue.

i did it for my daughter, but it appeared to others that i was merely a creepy business owner. the consensus on twitter seems to be that i'm a creep. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> i know governor romney came to des moines last week, warned about a prairie fire of debt. that's what he said. prairie fire. but, you know, he left out some facts. his speech was more like a cow pie of distortion. i don't know whose record he twisted the most. mine or his. he hasn't told you how he paid for a new $5 trillion tax cut, which includes a 25% tax cut for nearly every millionaire in the country. $5 trillion in new tax cuts. that is like trying to put out a

prairie fire with some gasoline. >> good morning. it's friday. may 25. welcome to "morning joe." may 25. that's a special day. with us onset we have executive editor at random house, pulitzer prize-winning historian and "time" magazine contributing editor jon meacham. and the chairman of deutsch incorporated, donny deutsch. that's good. >> and willie geist. >> morning, guys. >> any plans for memorial day? >> can i say this on tv? there's a birthday party for my mother-in-law tonight. oh, no. is she watching? we're just going to be at her house for some reason tonight. >> i wasn't invited. they don't like us, do they? >> there's a birthday boy in your house. >> when did the geists start cut american league out of their parties, meacham? >> you know. >> it's not a geist function. mother-in-law. >> the geist extended family travels together.

it is a big pack. an entourage. >> very clannish. >> very clannish. >> i know what's coming out of your mouth. >> no, what? >> there's going to be some slam against the east hampton, bridge hampton lifestyle. you know, there are kids there that -- >> uh-oh. >> no, there are. there are. >> hey, right here, this guy, i have been doing the nantucket relief fund for five years so stay away from it. what are you doing? >> i'm going out to the hamptons with my beautiful children. me and the girls. >> you say girls? >> my children, my children. >> you use as props walking down the street. >> yes, we remember that. we did. >> i'm glad mika is here today, because last time you weren't here it got ugly. you need to be here, because joe and i, it gets to the point where it's name calling and food throwing. so i'm glad you're here. >> may i report something for a second? >> yes. >> just the other night someone

walked up to me and said, can you tell me what donny deutsch is really like? and i said i think it's safe to say that what you see is what you get. and the purpose i was talking to said, well, what does that mean? and i said, well, i just have to leave that to you. >> what does that mean? >> don't you agree? >> yes. >> oh, yeah. >> what you see is what you get. i think that's the case with most people on this show. >> i think a big old gallon of needy. >> so you have a birthday boy in your house this weekend. >> today is a big day in our house. jack scarborough -- and it's such a big day. i have 87 kids. but jack obviously was born premature, 10 weeks. you guys went through all that together on the set here. and i remember -- i mean, it was touch and go. and it's unbelievable what the nicu did down in pensacola, sacred heart. but we have the most horrifying pictures right after he came out, and he wasn't breathing,

and they wrap him in sar an wrap. anybody that's been through that, to keep the body heat in it, and they put him in a tube, and rush him away. and he was so frail. >> how big was he? >> two pounds. >> wow. >> so little. >> and one day, you know, there were three or four kids on his wing who died. just like that, because you fall off a cliff when you're born young. and i'm not going to lie to you, willie. the first two years, i thought i was the baby whisperer, and i was with my first three kids, first two years, he was tough. he broke me. and something happened on his third birthday. and he is the happiest, joyous kid. >> how old is he now? >> turning 4. >> and he's healthy, good sized, a little man. >> he's big, and he's doing really well. and it is a miracle. and then i think any parent that has a kid who was that young,

every day you see him or her grow, it is really like a miracle. >> i always believe kids that were born and overcame hurdles were somehow special late in life. i have seen it with my friends' kids because they are fighting from day one. there's no science to this. just what i've seen. >> i think you're right. you know, we've all with our kids -- you can tell, especially as they get older, you pick up a trait when they're 21 or 22, and you say, oh, i saw that the first week. with jack, and i think this is great, you know, they took me aside and said, you know, 50/50, we do not know how long he's going to last. again, it's just a horrifying, horrifying thing. and i went back in the waiting room about five minutes later, and the nurse came back and said, he's fine. and i was like, what do you mean? she was like, i've been doing this for 25 years. he ripped out all of the cords. he's screaming.

he's fighting. she said, this one is going to be out fast, and she was exactly right because she had seen it. >> wow. great story. >> don't you see as an older dad how much better you are at it? i love -- and i'm a little older than you. but at this stage of life, it's so great to be a parent. >> you know, first of all, it was a big shock. in my 40s, late, and sometimes i look at jack and i'm like, shouldn't he be my grandkid? especially since i have a 4-year-old boy. and it's not more enjoyable, but i will tell you when you're an older parent you make a lot -- you take a lot fewer steps because you have figured it out. >> you're better at it. >> you don't open the door and go, come in right now, or i'm going to come out and whip your ass! come in! you don't say that 20 times. you're like, hey. and you stare at them. do the de niro thing, and kids get that.

>> you can say, you can cry for the next nine hours, answer is still no. >> i figured that out with joey about 16 years old. hey, look at my eyes. and he would be like, what? and i would say, look at my eyes. what exactly do you see in my eyes that suggests i will ever change my mind? >> i've got to use that. that's even better than mine. i like that one. >> and he was like, what? and he's right here. and i'm like, no, seriously. because i want to know. >> that's great. >> joey even at 16 in the middle of a huge fight would be, i'm good, i'm going upstairs. see you later. >> i remember when willie got that from you the first time. he learned. >> yeah. >> you scared willie? >> kind of like "a few good men." >> no, but it is a truth, though. you figure out how to deal with kids a little bit. i say this now, of course. i'll go home and he'll be smoking pot. [ laughter ]

>> at his birthday party. >> he'll be doing it well. >> that's the other thing you learn with kids. you think you've got it taken care of. >> exactly. >> mike barnicle has a great quote for people with a lot of kids. you're only as happy as your least happy kid. and that's so true. >> yes. it's a constant, never-ending, you don't know when they are going to -- >> you had a big weekend last weekend. >> yes, i did. >> because we never sleep, you don't remember. but you sort of had this passage. amelia. >> yeah. she was running in a road race, as she does every weekend, and -- >> see? the prom, prom the prom. >> i can't talk about that on the air? >> oh, my god. my daughter is going to kill me. thanks, joe. >> a mom sending her daughter to her first prom. >> with a senior.

>> did everybody meet at one house and -- >> no, we met at the school. it was really nice. >> and prayed together. >> yeah. sent them off like this. >> but she was home before midnight. >> oh, yeah. she's a good girl. she was beautiful. perfect. >> can i brag also? yesterday, my daughter london was in a little glee show. and if you have this song, alex, a disney song, there were like 15 girls doing this dance. she's going to be 9. you have this little kid onstage who's got all these dance things she's learned, and how did that happen? there's a moment where i think at different stages where you see your kids pop to the next level. al alex, if you have that song going into the break, t-t-y-l-o-x-x. >> why did we suddenly become the obnoxious parents once donny started talking about his kids?

no, that is an amazing moment when you see your child just burst forth. >> shall we get to the news next? >> this is such a warm and fuzzy show. >> well, i really wanted to say one more thing about your daughter's running but i'm going to keep my mouth shut. >> say it. >> she's an incredible runner. >> she is. and i just hope that -- knock on wood, good girl -- >> 15? >> 16. and 13. very athletic girl. >> nothing from you, jon? you don't love your kids? is that the deal? >> i didn't know how much time we had. before comcast was going to call down and ask what's going on. [ laughter ] >> i do. i do. i have three of them. and they're my daughters, who are much younger, or younger than my son. if someone said -- if you all said right now we could send my 7-year-old daughter to the white house by herself, i would say she could go, get on the shuttle, she could handle it. my son can't get out of the

shower without breaking three things. >> it's girls and boys. >> that about sums it up right there. [ laughter ] >> i'm going to get to the news now. speaking to supporters in iowa last night, the president challenged not only mitt romney's record as ceo of bain capital but also his vision for the future. take a listen. >> he doesn't really talk about what he did in massachusetts. but he does talk about being a business guy. he says this gives him a special understanding of what it takes to create jobs and grow the economy. even if he's unable to offer a single new idea about how to do that, no matter how many times he's asked about it, he says he knows how to do it. the challenge we face right now, the challenge we faced for over a decade, is that harder work hasn't led to higher incomes. bigger profits haven't led to better jobs. and you can't solve that problem if you can't even see that it's a problem.

>> ok. but the romney campaign says an attack on bain capital is an attack on free enterprise. they are framing the republican candidate as a skilled manager who pulled companies back from the brink of bankruptcy. romney says president obama simply doesn't appreciate what's involved in building a business. >> there's no question but that he's attacking capitalism. in part i think because he doesn't understand how the free economy works. he's never had a job in the free economy. neither has vice president biden. they spent their lives as either community organizers or as members of the political class. and frankly, the american people understand that the free economy and free enterprise is tough, it's hard work. and when they hear that a business like bain capital was successful, 80% of the time, and 5% of its investments only went bankrupt, they say, you know, that's a pretty good record. if all the president wants to do is talk about the failures, he's misrepresenting the nature of free enterprise.

>> new polling from "the washington post" and abc news shows romney holds a big advantage over president obama among white voters who are struggling financially. 58% say romney would do more to advance their family's economic interest. 32% say the president would be better on the issue. but when that same question was asked to all americans, the president receives a significant boost from nonwhite voters taking the lead over romney 46% to 43%. >> jon meacham? >> i find that fascinating, because unfortunately, what looks as though we're about to have is another campaign that's manikeyan. romney comes in with his community organizer line again. that's not conducive to a conversation about what the government can actually do to pull back the regulation, to find a way to avoid this tax disaster that's about to happen.

you know, that is -- and i don't like this phrase, but i'll use it anyway, that really requires an adult conversation. and nothing about what the president said or what romney said suggests that there's an appreciation going to be a public appreciation of how hard it is to get this economy going. and then for those numbers to flip along ethnic and racial lines suggests we have not moved very far from the politics of the '80s and '90s in terms of cultural differences. >> donny, let me ask you about this week, talking about the adult conversations. this week's conversation -- when you look back at the end of the year, and you're trying to figure out what happened, this is cory booker's week. it's dominated -- the president -- i won't say he's lost a week. by thursday, it seems like he

got back online with his message. but cory booker dominated from sunday through wednesday, thursday. as an ad guy, does this bain capital attack work? i hate to go back to it again, and we've talked about it an awful lot. but my personal belief is that by using resentment and class warfare, i think he not only risks losing this week, which he has done, i think he risks losing the entire campaign, because americans are a lot more concerned about what happens in the future than what bain capital did in the past. they just don't compare. they don't. >> i applaud cory booker. he's right. i think the average american is intelligent and understands this is part of capitalism. this is not a bad guy. i think it's a silly argument. what does stick with it a little

bit, though, and obviously time will tell, is not the literal message but that he's them. he's -- it's another way of saying, he's a rich guy. he has an elevator in his house. >> so just say that. >> ok. but i'm saying, i think the opportunity romney has, and we talked about this last time i was on, if he follows a path of the math of that first ad that he did, step one, step two, step three, which is i'm a fix it guy, i'm vanilla, i'm a turn-around guy. you don't even have to point in the other direction. it almost puts obama in a corner with not only what are you going to do, what have you done. and i think i applaud booker on the -- and i applaud obama, even though politically it's working against him as far as the gay marriage thing, as far as north carolina. you at least have two men who are stepping up and telling the truth. so i think obama, although he is losing on some of the issues, he is still defining himself as a more likeable human being. so those to me are the threads happening this week.

>> joe, can i ask you, of those two bites we just heard, which is more likely to appeal to the 100,000 independents in swing states who are going to make such a crucial difference? >> i do think barack obama's line that stood out there, and something that we said earlier this week, was he wants to talk about bain capital. why doesn't he want to talk about massachusetts? wait a second. all this experience that you're going to bring to the united states. i think that's great. i guess my question is, why didn't you bring this to massachusetts, governor, when you were 47th out of 50th? there are a lot of people that are angry in massachusetts right now that you had the colonel's secret formula and you kept it locked up in the safe while they went four years without the type of jobs that -- that's a good approach. also, and i think this is really important. i think you bring up a great point. you can say, he doesn't get it.

without going after the same venture capitalists who are funding your campaign. you can say -- i mean, you can make up -- and you know this. you can make up so many funny campaigns. that talk about the elevator, the car elevators, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but that had a stinging bit of truth to it. but i'm just telling you, this bain capital attack does not work. >> your massachusetts thing is a great example, yeah. >> the massachusetts attack works. and also saying the guy doesn't get get it. because obama's other great line was, how can you fix this problem if you don't even get that it's a problem? that's the whole thing. he doesn't get it. he doesn't know. and listen, i think we all know romney. we all like romney. we have talked, willie, for four years about blind spots that barack obama has.

well, you know, mitt romney has blind spots too. we like the guy, but i think we all know the guy. we've all gone to school with kn guys like this who were nice and wonderful but never really understood what it was like to struggle. and not that there's anything wrong with it. this ain't class warfare. this is a message, though. he can't fix your problem because he doesn't get your problem. >> and that's what the president said explicitly for the first time yesterday. on your massachusetts point, duval patrick, the current governor there, came out yesterday and said i like mitt romney, he has always been good for me. but the truth is if you're going to be the fix it guy, mr. fix it didn't fix it in the state of massachusetts. the jobs record, you have heard it a million times now, 47th in the country in job creation during his tenure there. if you're a graeat takeover and turn-around guy and you did it in the olympics and bain capital, why didn't you do it in massachusetts?

>> i still think that obama on the gay issue -- mitt romney would never, ever do anything that was not politically expedient. >> come on, man. he did it because he got smoked out of the woods, ok? >> whatever it is, he took a stand. >> they are not talking to biden's people anymore. >> obama didn't politically speaking -- >> it's going to cost him north carolina? >> why? because his vice president announced his support for it, and he had to answer the question. >> and then the secretary of education. >> and he's not really -- >> listen, if it were so courageous, they wouldn't be so angry at biden right now. i think unjustifiably. they wouldn't be freezing out biden's senior people from meetings. some of biden's senior people are persona non grata right now. they are ripped at what went on. they are treating biden's people like garbage inside the white house. >> mitt romney is not connecting as a human being. and he will not get elected for

that reason. >> well -- >> just say it. >> that's not going to change. that's who he is. >> you're right. >> he is a data driven guy. >> one of the sadnesses -- well, one of the interesting things here is romney's family story is -- has some of the santorum overturns without the big hands. because george romney, a carpenter, his family was driven in and out of the country. >> selling stuff out of his trunk so he could pay for his honeymoon with his wife. >> and the reason he can't bring it up -- >> what an amazing story. >> and he can't bring it up because of the mormon question. i think he's nervous. i don't know this for a fact. but i bet the reason he's not talking about his biography as an american dreamer is because it raises questions about the religion that he doesn't like talking a great deal about. >> you know, i would really if i were romney's team, if the kids were willing to do it, i'd get those boys back out on the

campaign trail like '08. i tell you what -- >> they're fantastic. >> you go into their house, you see them for three minutes, you look at those five boys, you look at ann romney, and you know what you see immediately? this guy, he's a winner. because we were just talking about kids. you look at those kids, you look at the grandkids, you look at ann, and you know when you walk into mitt romney's house, you are in the house of a good and decent man. >> and everyone knows how hard it is to raise good kids and how impossible it is sometimes. and they have done it five times. >> oh, my gosh. >> all right. much more to get to this morning. >> under the glare of the public spotlight. >> under the glare of the spotlight, yeah. coming up next, mike allen with a first look at the politico play book, including his piece on how president obama has stumbled out of the gate on his re-election campaign. also this morning, "the washington post's" eugene robinson will join us. also, jeffrey sachs who just

returned from china. sally krawcheck with some insider ideas on how to fix the banks. and later, author of the bestseller "running with scissors" augusten burroughs. he wrote a self-help book. think about that. >> don't run with scissors. >> or run with them. >> this self-help book, seriously, this thing is great. >> oh, cool. i'm looking forward to that. >> alex, what happened to my song? >> but first -- >> by the way, we're also not going to show slides from your summer vacation. don't even try it. >> i just got sick. here's bill karins with a check on the holiday forecast. bill? good morning, everyone. let's prepare you for your day today and the holiday weekend. here are the items of concern out there. one, record heat spreading from areas of texas across the country. so that's the one item. also, if you have any beach plans there north carolina, south carolina, down through georgia or florida, we are

watching close with a possibility of tropical development off the florida coast. we could be dealing with a tropical storm come sunday or monday. here's how it's going to play out. as we go through the day on saturday, the first day of your holiday weekend, very warm air through areas of tennessee all the way through kentucky. thunderstorm problems, though, great lakes. and then the afternoon storms in new england. by the time we get to sunday, we should be watching a strong cold front going through the northern plains. that's going to spark some pretty strong storms late in the afternoon here for iowa to minnesota, and possibly clipping areas of nebraska. also watch the tropics down there sunday into monday. don't go canceling your beach weekend at this point in the southeast but there is a possibility that we will have some heavy rain and gusty winds down there. jacksonville, daytona beach, areas along the georgia coast too. we're in a drought so we need it, but we don't want to ruin anyone's holiday beach weekend plans. safe travels today. new york city, more heavy downpours. what else is new? you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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let's take a look at the morning papers. we'll start from our parade of papers this friday morning. reque the paper has covered every major event from the civil war to hurricane katrina. they are trying to survive the economy. they are cutting back their printing to just three days a week, which means job cuts. they plan to increase their presence online. >> jon meacham, that's a depressing story. walter isaacson got his start there. >> he did. and lots of good people down there. new orleans, you know, you can just go outside and write what passes down the street and it's news in those places. >> yeah. >> it's a storied paper. and the question for all of these newspapers, all of these magazines, all the things we love, is going to be whether the

ad base plus readers are willing to pay a little bit of money for what they read. >> yeah. >> you're going to get what you pay for in the end. >> oh doubt about it. "the new york post" after making a deal this month to buy 63 newspapers, megainvestor warren buffett says he may acquire more publications. the oracle of omaha says there is proven success in pay for content business models, following up on what you said. >> and what buffett is doing here is talking about very local news. so if you have a newspaper where the car dealer, the local department store, the local grocery store, can own -- that's the place where they advertise, and you get the sermons and you get the high school sports and you get the wedding anniversaries, newspapers still have that role to play in small communities. >> that is the niche. >> but you want to sell something? here's where you have to go. >> this sunday's "parade" magazine, the and what america

eats issue. oh, boy. it celebrates all american classics. >> you doing a side bar, mika? >> no. i've got one coming, though. from corn dogs to ice cream cones for -- >> the mika brzezinski diet. and one more, big news from my hometown. >> this is great. >> in fact, from my high school. pensacola catholic high school, my alma mater, won the state championship in baseball. and what makes this special is my good friend richard la bounty, we coached together in football at catholic when i was 23. >> that must be huge for them. >> and all these years later, we still when we see each other in the grocery store go, coach! but anyway, they won. and i'd like to tell you why they won. they won 7-2. but who was the star of the game, alex? chad westlake scored a three-run double. and coach la bounty, the guy

just won his 600th baseball game. >> wow. >> i remember when i was 23, and coach la bounty must have been maybe 30 at the time, 27. he'll probably get mad at me for saying it. but colleges were trying to get him to go coach. and said if you want to get out, kid, you've got to get out now. because you've got to start young. and they told la bounty you can go wherever you want to go. and he said you know where i want to go? i want to go right here. i want to coach at catholic. i want to raise my kids at catholic. teach them to play baseball at kakt. good enough for me. and he's done exactly that. >> that's very cool. >> nice. >> something about your hometown. my high school football coach, brent johnson, was that way too. won state titles. could have coached in college, but decided to stay there. >> could have gone wherever he wanted to go. and that's his son, drew, and there is that story. that's the decision richard made all these years later. and his son, drew, is starting

shortstop, and he's going to be playing college ball. and you know when coach la bounty is going to quit coaching at catholic high? >> whenever he wants. >> when his son plays college, because he said i'm going to follow him and watch him play baseball. i'll be in the stands. so an amazing story. >> pensacola catholic, congratulations. state champs. to politico now. the chief white house correspondent, mike allen, has a look at his playbook. mike, good morning. >> happy get away friday. >> there it is. memorial day weekend has begun. mike, you and vandehei have the lead story on politico this morning. the headline, obama stumbles out of the gate in first few weeks of his campaign. tell us about your story. >> it was three weeks ago that the president formally unveiled his campaign with those rallies in ohio and virginia. and he's been on the defensive, been on the back foot as the brits would say, ever since, right before the break, you were talking about the biden comments. some of the events are beyond their control.

jobs numbers, which looked good in the winter, are now looking bleak again. europe is looking like it might blow up again. but, you know, as we called around talking to folks about how the campaign had started, we heard a lot of dismay from people who were involved in the '08 campaign about what the message has been like. they say barack obama is somebody whose signature was thinking big, talking big, looking big. and instead, they are worried that the campaign has been too dragged down by the tit for tat. and the campaign is worried that the president's message is assuming that the have-nots are going to outvote the haves, that angry people are going to be all the voters when in fact the president should be out making people feel good about the success that is being achieved, about the people who are coming back. >> this is the debate. >> i guess the question, mike, with five months to go until election day, will these first

couple of weeks matter in the grand scheme of things? >> no. that's a great point. and we heard from people around the campaign that one of the strengths of the obama campaign is that because that core group has been there since the '08 campaign, since they started as underdogs, the white house, the campaign are very close, that they stick to their strategy. they don't turn into a circular firing squad. and because of that, the campaign feels very good about how things are going to unfold in large part because of the issue y'all were just talking about. they think in their back pocket they have the issue that president obama will always be more likeable, and every single time going back at least to jimmy carter, americans vote for the more likeable person for president. >> there you go. by the way, politico is on fire right now. >> unbelievable. >> getting on the plane in d.c. yesterday, you have the newsstand, you can take any paper you want. "new york times," "ft," whatever it is, every passenger rips out politico. everybody. >> and they have a new fashion

insert that mike is behind. did you guys know that? >> fantastic. >> it's the mike allen fashion insert. >> that's what it is. >> ralph lauren. >> these guys kill it every day. mike allen, have a great holiday weekend, my friend. we'll see you. >> thanks. y'all too. coming up next, dwyane wade and lebron james put on a huge night. plus, snoop with the ceremonial first pitch in chicago. keep it on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪

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let's do some sports. the miami heat coming off back-to-back dominant performances in game four and five against the pacers. remember their backs were against the wall, down 2-1. last night looking to close out the series in indiana and get back to the eastern conference finals. second quarter off the pacers miss, the pacers pushing down the floor. lebron takes 17 steps and dunks. heat up four there. lebron hits the hook shot. how about this one? sky-hooking. 28 points for lebron. then wade splitting the defen r defenders. hoop and the foul. wade who slumbered through the first couple of games 41 points last night. heat win 105-93. back in the eastern conference finals to face the winner of tomorrow night's game seven,

celtics and sixers. >> that's going to be a great game. but i tell you what, a lot of people in basketball stunned that larry bird came out and questioned the guts, basically the manhood, of the pacers after game five. >> they were blown out by 32 points, i think, and he said our team is soft. i'm surprised. i infnever thought it would como this. >> he did that with boston once and it worked. >> he called out his own team when he was playing, called them sissies. thunder and spurs, it's going to be a great series, starts sunday night in san antonio. >> who do you like between the 76ers and boston? >> i think the celtics win because they are at home. they're old but at home. >> it's going to be a great one. >> that san antonio, that's going to be a great series. >> it is. it was bring your doing to the ballpark day. >> what? >> for the chicago white sox on the south side yesterday. so who do you invite to throw out the first pitch? snoop dogg. and they let him three out the

first pitch. there it is. remember, he has smoked like three splits in the dugout. so that's pretty good, pretty accurate. and then he tebows to celebrate. looking good doing it. you may remember last year the cardinals and phillies that, squirrel became the lucky squirrel that ran out on the field. a couple of appearances before the cardinals won the world series. this guy interrupted play in the seventh inning, a streak. and we show it to you mainly because of his tattoo. it says, hakuna matata, a quote from "the lion king." >> a kid-friendly streaker. >> he told police he ran on the field because he presumably lost a bet and had to get the lion king tattoo on his butt. >> thank you, willie, for bringing that to the table.

i hope you're happy. coming up next, mika's must read opinion pages. keep it on "morning joe." [ banker ] mike and brenda found a house that they really wanted.

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we actually thought this was interesting. a new gallup poll shows that americans are changing their positions on the issue of abortion. 41% now identify themselves as pro choice, down six points from last year. and the number of pro-life americans is up three points. gallup again polling on abortion in 1995. at the time, 56% said they were pro choice, and 33% called themselves pro-life. since then, the number of pro choice americans has steadily dropped while pro-life americans are on the rise. >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> is that possibly because they still haven't gotten up to speed on people who are sole cell phone users and clearly people are more disposed to cell

phones? >> no. >> how do you explain that, then? >> i talked about jack earlier. and when we went through that process of figuring out what was happening, we got to a point where they said, do you want to see your son? and i said, yeah. and it was 3d imagery. and you now have the technology not only that takes you -- takes parents inside so early, and it's three dimensional imaging. and you sit there, and you know what you do? you tear up. that's what you do. >> that's actually a fascinating point, that technology has changed it. >> and not only that, but you compare viability in 1973 when roe v. wade was written with what it was when jack went through what he went through four years ago, and what's happening today. suddenly, viability is pushed back further. and the imagery that allows parents to see their unborn children earlier, that's having

an impact. and i just -- i remember seeing the 3d imagery. and as i walked out of the office, i said and we talked about it, this is going to change the abortion debate. because you see that, and you immediately go, ok. you can call it what you want to call it. that's a human being in there. >> that's a life. >> and that's a life. >> that's what you think when you see it. >> and i can ignore it. i can try to deny it. but that is a human in there. a human life. i mean, that's not a political statement. that's a statement as a dad. >> but i think what you're also saying is that maybe a lot of other people have come to that conclusion as well. >> well, that's what i'm saying. >> because it really does -- it gives you a visual image of a life. i don't know how else you describe it. >> and jon meacham, and i have been saying this for some time, this shows how nonideological americans are. they are burkian on the two most volatile social issues of our

time. abortion and gay marriage. they are becoming more progressive on gay marriage because they are meeting more people who are married and going, ok, come on, what's the big deal? just let them get married. >> yeah. >> and so that number is going in one direction. and then in another way, very practical, wait a second. call it what you want to call it. this isn't a lump. this isn't even a fetus. this is an unborn child, when they see that imagery. again, just in the gut, i'm not talking medicine, i'm just talking pragmatic americans. we have always been pragmatic, always. >> absolutely. i would also be very interested if there was any detailed language in that question. because you can be pro-life, but also favor laws that allow choice. >> right? >> you know what i mean? you can be personally pro-life. >> you can have a personal belief. >> but believe there is a right to abortion under certain circumstances. >> and by the way, willie, the majority of americans still believe that abortion should be legal in certain circumstances. >> right. >> this is more of an i.d.ing of

are you a moderate, a conservative, or a liberal. but it is telling that this is lowest number, i believe 41%, ever of people who want to be identified as pro choice. >> and there is nuance in there as well. in the case of rape and incest, the numbers change. but i do think again just as a father, the first time i saw that image, you go, wow. there he or she is. >> never thought of that point. >> technology is not the only factor. >> the sonogram effect. >> and it's not like that technology is going to slow down. viability is going to keep pushing back. the technology. so, yeah, this is the future. >> "news you can't use" is next. keep it right here on "morning joe." om capital one, sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns double miles on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card!

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please tell me it is time. it's been a long week. >> we normally do the week in review here, but i have a clip that trumps that. you'll like it. yesterday on "hard ball," chris matthews had newt gingrich. the big issues of the day. >> talking about taxa getton? >> they talked about mitt romney, everything. but mostly their shared love of animal and the way chris treats this interview about animals like a "hardball" interview. watch this. >> i think you're the only presidential candidate ever to basically go zoo to zoo. what's you and animals about? >> i love the natural world. i love animals whether they are, you know, out in the wild.

i love animals in zoos. i love -- >> ok. best zoo in the country. >> san diego. >> best animal. favorite animal to go watch. >> favorite animal to watch? that order to say. maybe elephants. >> do you like the reptile house? >> yes. >> why do you like the reptile house? because most people are afraid to go in there. >> they are astonishingly successful. they do it in a totally different way than we do. >> favorite snake? >> probably a python. >> why? constrictor, right? you like the constrictor aspect of it. >> no. i just think they are -- >> eats cows whole. >> they don't eat cows whole. >> what about a muamba? you have 15 minutes to live. and they attack like this. >> you have a more ruthless approach to politics than i do. >> so good. [ laughter ] >> oh, my god. >> reptile house. >> let's play hardball. >> that was great.

>> i'm not sure he's ok. >> no, he is. >> that's television. >> that was the end of a long interview. >> that's funny. >> that was good. >> i love him. >> fabulous. >> that's why we love chris matthews right there. >> that was great. also we like to show you democracy at work. it happened yesterday in the ukrainian parliament. this is how they get business done there. [ laughter ] >> wow. >> this is how a bill becomes a law, kids. >> not surprised ian worked there for years. >> they were debating about a bill that would allow the use of russian as an official language in parts of the ukraine. >> well, that's a problem. >> apparently, violently opposed by some who want to maintain ukraine's cultural independence. so they ripped each others' shirts off and punched the living hell out of each other. >> if i'm not mistaken, because i do study -- >> big picture guy. >> after the break-up of the soviet union, i have studied the parliamentary systems of former soviet states. >> i know. >> this isn't the first time this has happened, is it? >> this is december of 2010.

again, a massive brawl. this was chair throwing and all over some trivial issue. this is just how they work things out. >> there you go. >> that table and chair. >> as far as just pound for pound being the best fighting parliament in the world, is ukraine at the top of the list? >> i think they are. south korea fights a lot. but it's polite fighting. >> give me the ukrainians any day. >> just a little bit of pushing and slapping. >> kind of like a joel stein fight. >> growing up jewish guys, we give each other head locks. that's about it. >> do you know who does it really well? taiwan. >> pound for pound, the best in the world. >> march of 2007, this was a dandy. this was i fight over the government's handing out of tainted milk. >> well, they are passionate. >> unleash chang. >> the power of the ukraines, though. seriously, it's ali and frasier. >> i think cspan could use a little more of this in the united states senate. >> it would clear the air a

little bit. >> i think i have been misguided all these years on our form of government. i have always wanted to have the prime minister's hour. you ask the questions. i have got it all wrong. we need to do it the way the ukrainians do it. once a week. >> all kidding aside, human nature, if that happened, it would clear the air, and everybody could get started. >> harry reid is an old fighter too. >> not him in particular. but food fight. now let's get things started. >> strom thurmond in his prime. >> i did see one time jim moran and cunningham go after each other physically. >> really? >> they were dragged off the floor fast. >> it doesn't last long. coming up, jeffrey sachs just back from china. also, josh green. keep it on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day

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why china is kicking our ass. reason number 933. >> what is that, dj? is it dance party friday? >> oh! >> how did that happen? ♪ >> why china is kicking our ass. [ laughter ] >> that's pretty much says it all, mika. >> yeah. that sums it up. that was a comedic thing? yeah. ok. [ laughter ] >> welcome back to "morning joe." jon meacham and donny deutsch are still with us. and joining the table, the director of the earth institute at columbia university economist

dr. jeffrey sachs, just back from a trip to china of all places. and in washington, we have senior national correspondent from bloomberg business week, joshua green, who has a new piece this morning entitled obama's bogus war on bain. we'll read that and talk about that. but first, why china is kicking our -- >> well, actually, not quite. we've been talking around the table for some time about how we wondered whether china is the next big bubble. who's the harvard economist that's been write being this? we had him on actually. in "the new york times" probably about six months ago that reflected i think our thinking that, yes, china is great, and china will keep growing at 10%, 11%, forever, until it doesn't. >> right. >> and the fact -- >> pop. >> and he had a great point. you know, your dad, everybody, i forget who was here yesterday,

say you go to china, and you look at the airports, look at the infrastructure, and you look at the highways, and you're like, wow, they are just absolutely destroying us until you look underneath and realize they're spending a lot of money, they have a lot of cash on hand so they can do it, but they are spending a lot of money but they have a lot of very poor people that may not continue to support it. >> when you do travel around china, though, they are awestruck about the growth they have seen in everything. >> and they are making wise investments. the question is whether they are going to have the market to push that moving forward. anyway -- >> so on your trip, you spoke with leaders there. and what is your take away, dr. sachs? >> well, i think the interesting thing is whatever the long-term is, the short-term looks a lot darker this month than it did last month. the chinese leaders have been caught by surprise at the sudden decline of economic growth just in the last month. and when this comes together with the european crisis

worsening, it's actually pretty dark news for the world economy. much darker even than a couple of months ago. it's going to affect the united states as well. >> and this is what globalism has done for us. we sit and fret for a decade about the rise of china. but we are so interconnected now that when china starts to slow down, the wise american leader says, uh-oh. >> well, we're feeling it. >> because our exports. >> right now, the biggest risk is actually given how bad europe is managing this intensifying crisis that europe has, if china really shows, if europe really slows, that's going to be a big knock on the u.s. economy. no doubt about it. >> mika, let's go into the numbers here. >> your analysis is mirrored in "the new york times," where after larger-than-life for years the chinese economy may be running out of steam. at least that's what's being reported by a chinese government

website which describes a sharp downturn in the economy. it's also a story making front page news in "the times" today. the government indexes show real estate prices are falling in more than half of the country's top urban markets. also, exports have stalled, and chinese consumer confidence is in decline. the economy barely grew in the first quarter compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. >> jeffrey, they have so many problems that they're going to have to deal with. first of all, they spend so much money on security. stopping their government from being overthrown. secondly, and you can speak to this i think better than anybody else, in many ways china is an environmental catastrophe waiting to happen. >> well, you know, when you spend a week in beijing, you feel it every minute because you never see blue skies. your eyes are watering the whole time. this actually is one way that they really could get the economy going, is invest in cleaning up the air and the water, and they'll probably be led to do more of this right now.

you know, china is not going to go away as a major rising power, obviously. but this cyclical downturn is pretty scary, actually. because i would say a month or two ago, of course, there were voices of concern. there was the question real estate bubble and so forth. maybe china is going to be able to pick it back up. but the amount of the world economy that china's growth has been lifting has been really enormous in the last four years. latin america, africa, of course, for the u.s. and europe as well. there's been lift. commodities prices high. so if china really were to go into a slowdown in six months, a year or two years, this would be a big deal. >> it's a big deal for us. it's a big deal for europe. also, though, it's a very big deal for the communist leadership. we asked -- mika and i had a conversation off camera with jon huntsman, former ambassador to china. and i said, help us explain.

what's the goal of the chinese government? i just read kissinger's book. are they really looking inward, or do they want to take over the world? and he said, it's very simple. the communist leadership wants to sustain the communist leadership. if they have growth of 9% and 10%, he said this is very parochial. have you ever heard, all politics are local? he said this is very local, and it's about communist leaders keeping themselves and their families in power. if the economy grows 9%, 10%, they stay in power. if it drops to 4% or 5%, things become tenuous fast. i thought that was a fascinating observation. >> what they certainly didn't count on was how messy this year of transition is. they are in a once in 10-year transition right now, and boy, has it turned into a public debacle. >> related to joe's question, talk about class structure at this point in 2012 in china. the last 600, 700 years in the west, the lesson if you have a

middle class, you democratize, liberty expands. how is the distribution of wealth right now in china? and how is that going to impact the actual survival of that leadership? >> well, they have had 30 years of true astounding growth, and poverty has come down. but in addition, inequality has risen just like in the united states. so they really have a nouveau riche that's very rich. they have a long list of chinese billionaires that have made it. they have the same politics money set of issues. so there's a lot of seething discontent as well in china, even though on average, there's been an incredible increase. the inequality is absolutely staring you in the face, the amount of luxury that you see is unbelievable. it outpaces just about anyplace in the world. >> josh green with bloomberg business week is in washington and has a question. josh? >> yeah. dr. sachs, 2010 and 2011, you

saw the u.s. economy slow down in the spring with fukushima, you know, the arab uprising, that sort of thing. my impression was that china's growth helped offset that in our own economy. what is this slowing down herald for the u.s. economy now that our recovery itself seems to be slowing down a little bit? >> i think on balance, we have every major region of the world now slowing down, which is not what was expected. the only offset to this is that the slowdown has also brought about a decline of oil prices, which is a partial cushioning factor for the economy. oil is down to about $92 a barrel. it's under $100 for the first time in a long time. that's the result of this general slowing down. but i think that the circumstances, you have to view it as a pretty negative compared to expectations of eight or 10 weeks ago because europe is a lot worse than it should be and then what's expected and so is

china. so this is a large part of the world economy hitting negative at the same time. >> josh, you have a piece in bloomberg business week about obama's bogus war on bain. that's the title. that's what you call it. we've been talking about this issue all week. you write in part this. it's odd to see private equity suddenly elevated to a pivotal national issue. this is not a distraction, obama insisted on monday. this is what this campaign is going to be about. the reason why it's odd is that obama has given no prior indication of being troubled by the industry's practices or made any obvious attempt to change them. private equity didn't factor in the 2010 dodd frank banking reform law. nor does it pose enough of a threat to worry financial reformers today. it's not yet clear what effect obama's attacks will have, but his own views about private equity seem much more benign than those of his advisers. on the same day that his ad about romney's role at bain capital rolled out, obama was

attending a fundraiser in new york city hosted by a prominent private equity executive. >> surprise. >> surprise. surprise, surprise. donny? >> josh, you know, i think there's a difference between private equity and what it really is and what we understand inside baseball versus what i think obama is doing, is basically saying, he is a rich guy. it's wall street. it's all of that. private equity is one of those words that the average american thinks is a bad thing, like hedge funds. so there's the literal translation. but i think obama is just trying to tar him with rich, disconnected guy to the average guy. >> i'd change that only slightly. if you talk to obama's advisers, and they hold a lot of press calls with reporters to try and guide our thinking about this, the buzz word you hear again and again from them is "values." and the argument is this isn't so much a business issue as a values issue. if you look at the ads and the bankruptcies and the layoffs,

that's really what they want to staple to mitt romney. they want to discredit his business career so that voters don't think to themselves, gee, the economy isn't as strong as i'd like. this business guy seems to know what he's doing. i think i'm going to vote for him. >> jeffrey sachs, this has to drive you crazy. you have talked about the influence of money and wall street for some time. but you have the president going after bain capital, despite the fact that he got $3.5 million from private equity three years ago and is raising money from these people right now. i had a senior democratic donor who was a money guy tell me a couple of days ago, he had the bain capital calling him up and going, what do i do? i mean, we have guys giving -- a lot of us like this guy. what do we do? it is a tight rope that the president is walking to say the least. >> yeah. i mean, there are issues that are real issues out there. but both parties are absolutely dependent on wall street for financing.

and so there is that irony and disconnect that the president is with the private equity industry the same day he is launching the attacks. that's the reality of our palestinia politics. a little sad. >> but is he saying there is something bad about private equity, something illegal? is he saying they are causing economic meltdowns? no. he is just asking, what type of businessman mitt romney was, and what he was able to do, with the knowledge that he acquired doing that type of business. >> i think that's right. but i think they are trying to draw a distinction that's hard for most people to make. what they are basically saying is that if you look closely at mitt romney and what his skills are, you know, they are really not admirable skills. you know, making money -- they refer to him as a corporate buyout specialist and try and make it sound as kind of wall street and nefarious as they can. but obama has come out and said as he did in a press conference

on monday, i think private equity plays an important role in the economy. so i think there's an element of trying to have it both ways here. >> there may be that. donny, let me just show you and then you can jump in. david axelrod tweeted this monday. loading companies with debt, outsourcing jobs, offshoring accounts, slashing wages and profiting off bankruptcies, not experience u.s. needs. >> i'm going to say something about private equity and hedge funds. and i still agree it's a bad strategic move for obama. but in reality, the guys that run those businesses are different than the guys who -- than a guy who starts starbucks. these guys, it is about skimming a dollar whether a job is created or a job is created. it's their mindset. they are not builders by nature. >> wait, wait, wait. >> i know these guys. >> i know. hold on a second. you say skimming a dollar. you can also say making that

company more efficient. >> or keeping it alive. >> i know. but i'm not saying that's going to make the government more efficient. but talk about skimming a dollar. now, if you're skimming a dollar suggests that you're going in to loot a company -- >> i didn't say that. >> i know. but if you did that as a venture capitalist, you would fail. you build companies. you make money for unions and other people that invest. >> but their goal is -- i'm going to say this and i'm trying to say this right is not to build companies. it's to do what they can in the short-term to take their money and run. it doesn't make them evil. but it is not the quintessential definition of the businessman american dream, the henry fords. i know these guys all personally. >> i don't think that's true at all. >> i think it's true. >> if you're shortsighted and you take the money and run, then your clients will leave you. the reason bain capital is succeeding is because, you know -- >> they are all in it for five years. >> i don't know a whole lot about wall street and money and financing. i just don't. but i do know when i talk to democrats, independents,

republicans, i say, tell me about bain capital. they all go, god, their record, it's pretty incredible. >> they are good at what they do. >> but i think what's important actually is that there really are two faces of what's called the venture capital or private equity or some of these activities. there is a normal side. you put in an investment, you build a business, sell it off, you make money. and that's selling the business side that joe was just talking about. there is an absolutely real other practice. and i'm not talking about bain. i'm talking about what we've seen in case in this industry of loading a lot with debt that is not your money and essentially you're taking away the claims of other bondholders, for example. you're stripping the assets. you're leaving a carcass exposed. both of those come under the same rubric of private equity. both kinds of behavior.

that's why you have to take a close look. some of it is absolutely business building, enterprise building, and some of it is asset stripping. and both are under the same headline. >> so there would be no argument if the term were "venture capital"? >> venture capital is different. new startup. >> very different. >> starting up technology and so on. this is mostly about highly leveraged buyouts, and who you're really getting the value from. >> using financial instruments versus placing a bet on future growth. >> but venture capital, you're stripping that part. >> to donny's point and to what you were trying to say in response, what is sort of connected to the american dream about private equity? i mean, it's a company that does well. but in terms of what they do -- >> by the way, this conversation that we just had was completely irrelevant to swing voters. the difference between bain -- what bain capital does, et cetera, et cetera, again, you

talk in things. and i have said it, we said it this morning, if barack obama thinks he's going to get re-elected by talking about bain capital -- >> it's a bad strategy. i agree with that. >> i know. i'm just saying -- >> i'm not sure i agree with that. >> instead of america's future, josh, i think that's a losing message. >> i'm not sure it is. you saw romney have trouble with it in january when newt gingrich ran exactly this message against him and beat him in south carolina, and then dropped the message and lost the nomination. this hits a lot of emotional hot button issues. layoff, bankruptcies, offshoring. david axelrod managed to distill it all into that tweet. i think politically it can be very effective, and that's one reason why you see them making this press. the case i was making in my article was it just wasn't anything they had shown any concern about prior to this. >> well, and also what i was asking wasn't a message. it was a question.

>> i don't think the private equity is going to stick with him. i think he is a rich disconnected guy. that's what sticks with him. >> i think that's a great subtext. and the president said it yesterday, jeffrey. the message is pretty darn good, when he goes, listen, you can't fix a problem if you don't understand it's a problem. and i'm just saying, politically, that's a great line because you're starting to build on a theme that you're a rich republican, and disconnected. >> of course he's going to push back, and romney will push the theme, where are the jobs? >> because of the type of business that he's run. >> here is the political problem. if these were two -- if this were an open seat, obama could make this case. >> right. >> but obama has got a record. >> i think that's what makes it hard. >> it makes it really hard to argue -- >> somewhat convoluted. >> don't look at what i have done the last four years. look at what he might do. >> at the end of the day, the reelection of a president is

about whether you want to rehire this guy or fire him. >> right. and i think the strategy on bain is to shift from that question is put the spotlight more on romney. because there isn't, you know, a morning in america type of economy, type of campaign for obama to run. >> you know, that may make sense in focus groups. but at a very gut level, when people walk into a voting booth, and i have seen it, i always talk about my dad and my mom, whenever they walked into the voting booth, and they closed that curtain, it was like, ok, how did this guy do over the past four years? do i want to rehire him? or should i give that other guy a chance? >> october 28 through november 4, 1980. >> exactly. >> that shift. boom. are you better off than you were? >> and that is the greatest example of how americans think. because the friday before reagan's huge landslide in 1980, i remember the "time" magazine cover, it was split down the middle. it was so close. >> it was sunday night. >> but in reality, people are

better off than they were in november of '08. if you ask that simple question -- >> if you believe that, donny, you need to call the white house and tell them that's their message over the next months. >> for the life of me, and, again, i am not obviously a barack obama supporter. for the life of me, though, i don't understand why barack obama doesn't go out every day and go, oh, you don't like what i did? that's great. who needs detroit after all? who needs a strong gm? who needs a strong michigan? who needs a strong indiana? who needs it! and also these banks and atm machines are really distractions. i want to get the old tellers back. maybe if i had let the entire financial community collapsed we would have gotten rid of atms. why don't they make that -- do you know why they don't make that message? they must not believe in that message. >> i bet you a dollar right now that if president obama loses he will have been making that case with that passion the previous three weeks.

and everyone will say, why didn't he say this all year long? >> he needs to start it now if he wants to win. >> josh green, thank you so much. we'll look for your piece in bloomberg business week, a great magazine. jeffrey sachs will stay with us. up next, we'll bring in the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. also, "the washington post's" eugene robinson. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. are so ama, you'll get lost in an all-beef hot dog world. what was i supposed to wish for? why am i wearing a bow-tie? where did i leave my bicycle? after all, when you're enjoying the beefiest, juciest bite of pure kosher beef, nothing else matters. goodness gracious, that's kosher. with no fillers, by-products, artificial flavors or colors. hebrew national. the better-than-a-hot dog- hot dog.

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what would a romney presidency be like? day one. president romney announces deficit reductions ending the obama era of big government, helping secure our kids' futures. president romney stands up to china on trade and demands they play by the rules. president romney begins repealing job killing regulations that are costing the economy billions.

that's what a romney presidency will be like. >> i'm mitt romney, and i approved this message. >> 26 past the hour. that was a second ad from the romney campaign with more of what he would do on day one of his presidency. joining us now from washington, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory, and pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. gentlemen, thanks for being onboard this morning. >> good morning. >> david gregory, it was your trouble making interview with cory booker that defined this week. >> that was quite something. >> actually, perhaps a small turning point in this campaign. were you surprised by the answer you got? >> you know, i was. i don't always immediately absorb when something like that happens. in this case, i did, because, you know, cory booker there clearly as an obama surrogate, and he was very critical of the ad as everybody now knows. what struck me about that and the point that i made at the time, joe, is that i think that

leaders, the closer the leaders are to the people that they govern, the more pragmatic they are as leaders. and i think cory booker reflects that. i think he's got future ambition as well. i know where he lives and governs as the mayor of newark and his ties to private equity. so all of that sort of came together. but, yeah, what are they going to say now? >> by the way, dr. sachs, a lot of people might say, well, cory booker has gotten a lot of contributions from venture capitalists. people from bain capital. but the bigger question as david is suggesting, if you are mayor of a city like newark, you have to have venture capital investing in newark so you can get re-elected. >> right. >> it's much more important politically to get the money into newark than even your campaign coffers. >> this guy has got a lot of cred. and he is the one that ran into a burning building last month also and saved one of his neighbors. >> you can argue he ran into a burning building again.

>> but he got out alive both times. >> i don't know about that. >> a private equity specialist, yeah. >> both times, no, he's going to do just fine on this one. gene robinson, he does -- and i guess that's the white house's bigger problem. this guy does have a lot of cred. he understands running newark. what his city needs. and he also talks to an awful lot of democratic contributors that are scratching their head at this type of strategy. >> well, it was pretty much a disastrous morning for the white house. now, the larger point that the campaign -- the obama campaign is trying to make, i think, is a valid point for discussion. as you guys were talking about earlier, the question of whether some kinds of highly leveraged buyout deals by private equity are indeed vulture capitalism as opposed to the kind of enterprise building capitalism that we can all be proud of.

and i think that's a legitimate question to ask. but cory booker didn't get that memo. >> can i just say, joe, what i think is totally fair, though, for debate, and why i think that ultimately politically this does have resonance, this is a skills test. who has the skills to turn the economy around? the biggest opening governor romney has is on the economy. his biggest calling card is that he's actually produced jobs in the private sector. if you want to attack something, you've got to attack that. and that goes to the heart of his private equity experience. and whether private equity, not a question of whether it's a part of the capitalist system and a legitimate part of it. but whether job creation is somehow at the core of what private equity is about. and it's not. you know, in the same way that, you know, as a friend of mine pointed out this week, are hurricanes job creators? well, they are and they're not. you know, because of the effect

of that kind of natural damage. so in the sense -- so i think this is an identity thing. it's a skills test and an identity issue that the obama campaign is going to spend a lot of time hanging around mitt romney when they already know that he's got some connection problems on the most basic level. which is, is this a guy who identifies with the problems you've got? >> jon meacham, and then i'm going to take it to -- >> david, twice now in recent weeks with biden and with mayor booker, you have really made an enormous amount of news. do you think this is an aberration that people are actually answering questions and will telling the truth, or is there a kind of candor because the race is so fluid? it's unusual to have two people, again, sort of tell you what they actually think. >> well, we're putting something in the mugs now at "meet the press." >> that's good. >> we are having some success with that. >> that's good. >> but in the case of biden, he certainly knew what the

president's views were. he knew what his views were. he was asked a direct question and he gave a direct answer. i think in the process of giving that answer, he went further than he intended to. i certainly don't think it was a plant in that respect or something he intended to do. i think with cory booker, i think booker, yes, he supportive of the president. but i think that he is also positioning himself as a more centrist, pragmatic leader and wants to take on some of the excesses in this advertising. he said exactly what he meant. i think what's odd -- and i think joe made this point over the course of the week. what is always i think more hurtful to these figures is if they really try to walk this stuff back as if they were in some sort of daze when they originally said it. cory booker was passionate. he was very clear. declarative. he knew what he believed on that. >> gene, i'm going to read from your piece in "the washington post," why bain questions matter. you say this. listen to what newt gingrich said in january. the bain model is to go in at a very low price, borrow an immense amount of money, pay

bain an immense amount of money and leave. i'll let you decide if it's good capitalism. i think it's exploitation. or what rick perry said in that same month. there is something inherently wrong when getting rich off failure and sticking it to someone else is how you do your business. i happen to think that is indefensib indefensible. when democrats say something like that they are called bolsheviks who want to destroy capitalism. but in the primary battle where moderate was the ultimate epithet, romney's actions at bain were seen as raising a legitimate and important question. shouldn't free markets serve the american people rather than the other way around? >> gene robinson, just to be fair, i did accuse newt gingrich and rick perry of being bolsheviks who wanted to destroy capitalism and i did it in real time. >> you did, joe. i'm sorry.

you're excepted there. but romney didn't start this. it was romney's political opponents who started the attack, and newt gingrich got a bit of traction with it in my home state of south carolina, where that was one of the things that i think people responded to. so it's not as if the obama campaign has created this issue out of whole cloth. in fact, they are following a playbook that gingrich and perry wrote. >> guy, i want to get back to -- >> and by the way, i think it will be about as successful for barack obama as it was for gingrich and perry. >> well, there is that, joe, the fact that it didn't work. and that's another question. but it's there. >> once and for all, i went to the wharton school of business. a lot of my friends are in private equity. and i want to distinguish between what those guys do and enterprise. i went to a family business. i was so excited to win an account, because i could hire some more people.

sometimes i would hire people first to win an count. the guys that i know could give a crap about creating jobs. that's a fact. if they create jobs or not, they don't care. they are in it for a three or five-year gain, whether it's slash and burn, whether it's build. they are in the financial instrument business. it doesn't make them bad guys. they are playing within the rules. but what mitt romney's incorrect about is that the skills that he's learned about job creation. that's baloney. is it going to be a dumb strategy for obama? probably. but let's stop this game about -- that he knows about job creation. that's ridiculous. it just is. >> can i just say, i think donny is right to this extent. i talked to a prominent republican who was analyzing the strategies here. and the question was about working class voters. if they are turned off from president obama, do they automatically go to governor romney? and the concern this adviser said was, you know, our concern is they may not like the president, but they kind of

think of mitt romney as the boss. and that's not the best image. and i just think that they are working the jab here on this. i don't think it's about winning the merits of the case. it's about casting him as somebody who's super rich, just doesn't get the problems of middle class americans, and who's -- and then to argue the merits that his job experience is not something that he'd actually be able to transfer as president. >> jeffrey, do you agree with donny's view of -- >> delicately put. >> delicately put. do not give a crap about -- >> i think there are some cases like that. but there's a lot of cases that are different. >> i've never met one. and i know some of the biggest guys inness. >> maybe you're hanging out at the wrong yacht club. >> i know the most successful private equity guys, the biggest names in the business. >> but, donny, some of them are trying to make money by building the business. >> well, there is no motive of job creation.

>> and then turn them into lamps. >> exactly. >> all right, mika. could give a crap. >> donny. >> diagram this. >> let's construct this. >> david, who do you have on sunday's "meet the press"? >> i have a debate. >> i've got newt gingrich debating governor martin o'malley from maryland on the bain debate and all. >> are you going to do the youtube walk back in the studio? >> we have a separate studio set up. also, i have author michael lewis and maria shriver talking about graduation speeches and their advice to young people. >> david, looking forward to that. eugene robinson, thank you as well. we look forward to your article

in "the washington post." coming up, we'll ask augusten burroughs what inspired his evocative new book. but first, bill karins with the forecast for this upcoming weekend.

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up next, what a former wall street executive has to say. >> i hope she's not donny's former girlfriend. >> no, we're good. we're back in a minute.

45 past the hour. exactly. i was looking for the cz. here with us now, former president of the global wealth and management division of bank of america, sally krawcheck. her new piece in the new issue of "harvard business review" is titled four ways to fix banks. a wall street veteran suggests how to cut through the industry's complexity. ok. it's not that simple. but you say it can be done. >> well, it's not that simple. but, you know, the piece really -- the genesis of the

piece was looking at the jobs of these boards of directors, which are incredibly important and astoundingly difficult. and so the idea really started as a memo to boards, which is your job is hard. are there some simple ways you can cut through this complexity? and i feel like as a country we have had a huge debate about greed on wall street. and this really was an attempt to let's move to point number two, even though point number one is very engaging and interesting. for a second, let's move to point number two which is the massive complexity these institutions and trying to manage it. >> now, you say the first thing you do is pay top executives with bank debt. >> that's right. >> why? >> well, what we know -- let's talk about the things we know and what we think. what we know is equity investors are pretty short-term in terms of their outlook. and we've seen that mutual fund close, for example, are really based on quarterly numbers. so we think that by paying these

guys more in equity they hold long-term that they'll become longer term in their outlook. but we know fixed income investors are very risk averse. and so if we can add some bonds on this, we may be able to cut through, you know, this short-term equity holding perspective. >> right. >> that senior executives have. so i don't think dick folds' issue was he didn't have enough stock, right? i think if he had had instead quite a bit of fixed income, which by its nature -- you only get 100 cents back on the dollar. no matter how much risk you take, no matter how well you do, you don't get more than 100 cents. and that can really change the perspective of the executives. >> what do you think about that? >> well, your focus on the boards of these banks is interesting. but i think the stunning thing about this whole crisis was almost every one of these boards was completely out of touch. they weren't really monitoring what was going on in these enterprises. we never -- there's no responsibility for any of these

boards. where was the aig board? where are the boards of the banks that failed? >> right. >> what about that? aside from the compensation, the boards seem miserable. they are taking in money, but they have no responsibility or accountability. how do we put real accountability on the boards? >> that perspective is a good perspective and is backward looking, right? so that's what happened. we can have the debate about that's what happened in '07, '08. these boards have turned over almost completely since then. there have been very good people put in. have you people that have been in the fed, people that have been very senior executives at these firms. let's make the simplifying assumption. from my experience, these are good, hard working people on these boards today who really are looking to do good work. and they understand it. they took the job since the downturn. so they get that -- you know, they get the importance of their job. >> but they are under the microscope. >> they get it. they get it. >> they understand the rules of change. yeah. >> so the perspective i have taken is again, rather than

debating what happened here, which is an interesting debate, how can we help these boards today because their jobs are astoundingly difficult. how can we help them cut through the issues? one example which will immediately confuse you, and that's the point, right? their job is to protect and grow capital. ok? if you are on a bank board, you get a big deck at the board meeting that talks about capital. gap capital, internal economic capital, regulatory capital, which rakes in a bastl two, bastl three, then break it into -- see, your eyes are glazing over. which capital? that's before you get to -- >> my teeth hurt actually. >> that's before you get to even the business. i haven't even gotten to cdo squares. >> i would pass out by then. >> so the boards are given eye charts at every meeting, which, you know, in the several hours a month that they put in very diligently they can't possibly work through. how can you cut through it?

well, one idea is to make sure that risk sensitivity goes through the organization. and by paying in fixed income as well as equity, one idea, right, is that you take that risk tolerance very quickly and you change it for the executives because they're folks don't keey have got, not growing the equity. >> of course it is changed. if they were paid in debt. >> exactly right. there is merit in that and we come back to there may be better people, but there was no accountability at all. how can we go through the massive crisis and not one board was scrutinized and no one held them to account. why do you think there is no accountability? >> by going back to the issue of getting to the root cause of this and getting to people's

self interest. the self interest is to be risk tolerant as opposed to risk seeking. you can have people act in their own self interest. you have to get to what motivates people and not fight it. >> sally, you described yourself as a child bride with few teenage kids, but you were also a child star. i have been reading about you for 20 years. it has been a tumultuous 10, 15, 20 years. it sounds like what happened. you were well aware of what was going on there. why do we keep having to be taught the same lessons? i say that as a conservative small government keep government out of our way republican who is like come on, guys, at some

point, let's figure this out. it's crazy. how can this keep happening? >> this is flabbergasting. it does get to a common sense issue and an issue of fairness. two things struck me. the least of which is how messed up the ipo process was. it happened with the largest ipo in history and we did a better job when don draper was here. this much of selective disclo disclosu disclosure. i don't know more about any threading the needle. >> with morgan stanley, what's the difference between morgan stanley letting them know things that consumers don't know and

henry calling a stock a pos and saying this is the greatest sock i have seen. it seems dishonest. >> these things rhyme whether they are the same thing, they rhyme. everybody had the same information. i started to think the road show where investors get to meet with the management team. it's 2012. let's put it online and make sure everybody sees exactly the same thing. >> i love it. great to have you on the show. come back. we'll be right back. you are watching "morning joe" and goodbye starbucks. dude you don't understand, this is my dad's car. look at the car! my dad's gonna kill me dude...

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on tuesday's show, bravo's andy cohen will be here to discuss his new memoire from pop culture. >> he talks about this memoire, his role in the 1979 camp david accords. you mocking your guest? >> a little before his time, but what would have thought he would have been the to whisper to reagan. >> coming up, another day over

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city. we have john meachem and donny. >> have plans for memorial day? >> there is a birthday party for my mother-in-law. we will be at her house. >> wait. >> i wasn't invited. she doesn't like us. there is a birthday boy in your house? >> one of the guys started cutting. >> i don't know. mother-in-law. mother-in-law. >> the guy's extended family travels together. it is a big back. very clannish. >> i know what's coming up. there will be a slam against the east hampton bridge lifestyle. there kids there. there are. >> the relief fund for four

years so stay away. what are you doing? >> i am going out with my beautiful children. me and the girls. >> what about the girls? >> your children. my children. >> they are props. >> i am glad we can see today. it got ugly. you need to be here. it gets to the point where there is food throwing and i'm glad to hear. >> just the other night someone walked up and said can you tell me what donny deutsch is really like. i said it's to say that what you see is what you get. the person said what does that mean? i have to leave it to you. >> perfect. >> yeah. >> i think a big old gallon of needy. you have a birthday boy in the

house. >> i do. today is a big day. jack. it's such a big day. i have 87 kids, but jack was obviously born premature, 10 weeks. you went through that on the set here. it was touch and go and unbelievable what the nicu unit did. it's amazing. we have these pictures and the most horrifying pictures right after he came out and wasn't breathing and wrapped in saran wrap to keep the body heat in. they put him in a tube and he was so frail. >> how big was he? >> two pounds. one day there were three or four kids on his wing who died. just like that because you

falloff a cliff. i'm not going to lie to you. the first two years, i thought i was the baby whisperer. the first two years, he was tough. he broke me. something happened on his third birthday and he is a happy joy us kid. he is turning 4. >> she healthy and good sized? >> unbelievable. he is big and doing well. it is a miracle. any parent that has a kid that young, every day you see him or her grow, it is really like a miracle. >> i always believe kids that were born over hurdles are somehow special. i have seen them with my friend's kids with a heart issue and there is no science to this. >> i think you are right. we have all with our kids, you

can tell especially as they get older, you pick up a trait when they are 21 or 22, i saw that the first week with jack. i think this is great. they took me aside and they said 50-50 and we don't know how long he is going to last. it's a horrifying thing. i went back in the waiting room about five minutes later and the nurse came back and said he's fine. i have been doing this for 24 years and he ripped out the cords and screaming and fighting. she was exactly right. he had seen it. >> don't you see as an older dad how much better at it you are. like anything. whether it's a tv host or electrician, i love this statement of life is so great to be a parent. >> first of all, it was a big shock. in my 40s and late, sometimes i

look at jack and say shouldn't he be my grand kids? i have a 24-year-old boy. when you are an older parent, you take a lot further steps because you figured it out. >> you are better at it. >> you don't open the door and say come in right now! you don't say it 20 times. you are like hey! that's it. you stare at them. kids get it. >> i figured it out with joey about 16 years in. he would be like what. look at my eyes. what exactly do you see in my eyes that suggests i will ever change my mind. >> i have to use that. i like that. that's even better.

>> he was like what? >> he was right here. >> seriously. i want to know. >> you know what? joey even at 16, i'm glad. see you later. i remember when willie got that from you. he learned. >> but it is the truth though. you figure out how to deal with kids a little better. i say this now and i go home and he will be smoking. >> that's the other thing you learn with kids is you think you have it taken care of. you are only as happy as your least happy kid. you are exactly right. >> speaking to supporters in iowa, the president challenged not only mitt romney's record as a ceo, but also his vision for

the future. listen. >> he doesn't really talk about what he did in massachusetts. but he does talk about being a business guy. he said this gives him a special understanding of what it takes to create jobs and grow the economy. even if he is unable to offer a single new idea about how to do it, no matter how many times he asked about it, he said he knows how to do it. the challenge we face right now for over a decade is that harder work hasn't led to higher incomes. bigger profits haven't led to better jobs and you can't solve that problem if you can't even see that it's a problem. . >> okay. the romney campaign said an attack on bane capital is an attack on free enterprise. the field manager pulled companies back from the brink of

bankruptcy. president obama simply doesn't appreciate what's involved in building a business. >> no question but that he is attacking capitalism part because he doesn't understand how the free economy works. he never had a job in the free economy as vice president biden. they have been members of the political class and the american people understand that free economy and free enterprise is tough and hard work. when they hear a businesslike bane capital was successful 80% of the time and 5% of the investments only went bankrupt, that's a pretty good record. all the president wants to do is talk about the failures and he is misrepresenting. >> abc news shows romney holds a big advantage with white voters who are struggling. 58% said they would do more to advance the economic interest

and 32% said obama would be better on the issues. the president receives a significant boost with nonwhite voters 46% to 43%. >> i find it fascinating because unfortunately it looks as though we are about to have another campaign -- the conversation we heard in the first one, obama doesn't understand free enterprise and romney comes in with the community organizer mind that. is not conduce testify a conversation of what the government can do to pull back the regulation and find a way to avoid the tax disaster that is about to happen. i don't like this phrase, but that requires an adult conversation. nothing about what the president said or what romney said suggests that there is an

appreciation, a public appreciation of how hard it is to get it economy going. then for those numbers to flip along ethnic and racial lines suggests we have not moved very far from the politics of the 80s and 90s in terms of cultural differences. >> let me ask you about this week with adult conversations. when you look back at the end of the year and you are trying to figure out what happened, this is corey booker's week. i won't say the president lost a week. by thursday it seems like he got back online with his message, but corey booker dominated from sunday through wednesday. as an ad guy, does bane capital

attack? we talked about it a lot, but my personal belief is by using resentment and class warfare, he not only risks losing this week which he has done, but risks losing the entire campaign because americans are a lot more concerned about what happens in the future than what bain capital did in the past. they don't care. >> i applaud corey booker. he is right. the average american is intelligent and understands. this is part capitalism and i think it's the argument. what does stick with it and time will tell is not the literal message, but that he's them. he's a rich goy and has an elevator in his house. i think the opportunity romney

has and we talked about this last time. if he follows a path of the math of that first ad he did in step one, step two, step three. i'm vanilla and a turn around guy. you don't have to point. he puts obama in a corner about what are you going to do and what have you done, i think i applaud him even though politically it's working against him. the gay marriage thing and north carolina. you have two men who are stepping up and telling the truth. obama although he is losing on some of the issues, he defines himself as a more likeable human being. >> i want to ask you, of the two bytes we heard, which is more likely to appeal to the 100,000 independents in the swing states? >> i think barack obama's line

that stood out there and something that we said earlier this week was, he wants to talk about bane capital. wait a second. all this experience you will bring to the united states, i think that's great. i guess my question is, why didn't you bring this to massachusetts, governor? we were 47th out of 50. there a lot of people who are angry right now that you had the colonel's secret formula and you kept it locked up in the safe while they went four years without the jobs. that's a good approach. also and think this is important and you bring up a great point. you can say he doesn't get it. without going after the same venture capitalists who are funding your campaign. you can make up and you know this. you make up so many funny

campaigns that talk about the elevate and et cetera, etc. they had a stinging bit of truth to it. i am telling you, this bain capital attack does not work. the massachusetts attack works and also saying the guy -- obama's other great line was how can you fix this problem if you don't get that it's a problem? that's the whole thing. he doesn't get it. listen, we know romney and like romney. we talked for four years about blind spots that barack obama has. mitt romney has blind spots too. we like the guy, but we have gone to school with guys like this who are nice and wonderful, but never really understood what it was like to struggle.

not that there is anything wrong with it. this is a message. he can't fix your problem because he doesn't get your problem. >> that's what the president said for the first time yesterday. on your massachusetts point, they have all prepared for governor and said i like mitt romney and he is good to me, but if you are going to be the fix it guy, mr. fix it didn't fix it. the jobs record you heard with 47th in the country. if you are this great take over and turn around guy and you did it for the olympics and bain, why didn't you do it in massachusetts. >> clear and positive. coming up, author of the bestseller running with scissors is out with a self-help book on how to overcome about everything in life. also ahead, man up.

masculinity as he prepares to raise a sun. >> he is a funny man. that's a tall order. >> but first bill -- i will keep it clean and generic. >> and dull. >> keep it generic and non-brand name. let's go into the forecast. it's not in mexico, but hurricane bud will make the landfall. it will be near puerto vallarta as a category two hurricane. that's serious. warm air moving across the country at 92 in dallas that is moving into the southeast. tennessee from nashville to atlanta. showers and storms in new england and not going to see too many problem this is weekend, but we will be tracking the storm from the northern rockies that will be producing snow saturday. we will move across great lakes.

it looks like sunday with strong storms in the central plains. the big story over the weekend, if you have beach plans, we are watching the tropics. it is possible we could be dealing with the storms on memorial day so we have to keep that in mind to ruin beach plans and parade plans. a lot of other areas, you will be warm to feel like summer and have a very enjoyable memorial day weekend. you are looking at a beautiful sunrise. safe travels and a great weekend. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. are so ama, you'll get lost in an all-beef hot dog world. what was i supposed to wish for?

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you are by far my favorite daughter. >> stop antagonizing me, natalie. stop transferring your anger to me. make an appointment to see dad. >> you hate me and you will have to confront that. >> sorry this really our dinner? >> it's just dumplings. that's all you get. i am not a maid and not a chef. >> 23 past the hour. that was a scene from the 2006 film running with scissors based on the memoire by the acclaimed

author who is out with a new self-help back entitled this is how. for young and old alike. this is disturbing. >> there is stuff in here that you will love also. my wife and i have been big fans for a long time and susan picked up the book and blew through it and said i can relate to this guy. she explained how just like you, she thinks that people think she is shoplifting. explain why your friends hate to go shopping. >> i'm the guy that when i leave the store, no matter what store, i'm stop and my bag is inspected. it's funny because i was a store

detective north of boston. i know how to use the cameras. >> i was going to say. >> it's a skill. i have to have places to put things and harnesses and the real professionals. it's a science. >> the worst part of it is you think that people are looking at you. then you start acting weird. then they stop you. >> don't get paranoid. they are because you have been stopped at the door. . >> you have been profiled. he is wearing the jacket. >> i order online. . >> you can still shop in your underwear. i enjoy this. this is how to be fat. you also likely talk about how to lose weight and i love the simplicity of it. if you don't want to be fat,

stop eating and you say that you have credibility on this for a good reason. >> the thing is, there is a difference between and you have to know what you want. when i first met her 20 years ago, she made a joke about being on a diet and he was always on a diet. i saw her 15 years later and she made her joke about her diet. if after 15 years you are still on a diet, you have to ask yourself, do you want to reach that goal or do you really just enjoy cheese a little more? that's fine, but know the difference. >> you talk about a battle with alcohol. day you just made the decision. >> the thing with alcohol is you have to find something you enjoy

more. i don't really agree with the concept of powerlessness over alcohol because ultimately my hand is the thing that's reaching for that beverage and it feels powerless. when i was drinking i felt like it, but to be more accurate it's not that you have no control, it's that you want it so bad that you just don't care. you don't care about your family or kids and that's a horrible thing to admit, but in order to fix yourself you have to be absolutely honest with yourself. even if you don't like the answer. >> how much of this is from your own experience? >> the whole book is from my own experience even though i never had a weight problem and i never have been anorexic. i don't have a child and talk about what if your child dies. the wisdom i have there from my own experiences. some things in life, we like the

word heal. heal is a television word and some things you are not going to heal from. if your child dies, you are not going to heal from that. that doesn't necessarily help people to know, but it does. it takes a bit of pressure off because there is a pressure to heal. after you lost someone, six, eight, nine months later, you will hear these words. you look great. you look like yourself again. now you have been cast in a play. you doing better? this is a discussion you had with your mom. >> i was thinking about this story and they arrested me and now the family has closure. >> no, they don't have anything. they have nothing. they don't have closure. nothing is closed. that boy will be their boy

forever. when you lose someone, you want to talk about them and you shouldn't feel guilty or feel like i shouldn't talk about them because i'm healed. that's in the past. that's not the way things work. >> my dad as you guys know passed away a year ago. my parents were married 55 years and they didn't like anybody but each other. my dad, i said we will fly you up. he wanted to be with my mom. they wanted to be in their house. for my dad that was the greatest thing on earth. people started coming up to my mom a week after my dad died and said mary jo, george would want you to move. i would shoe them away. my mom was crying and said i feel bad. i said don't move on. you can't move on. don't try to move on. stay there.

>> it's impossible. >> another thing that you asked about how much of this comes from my experience. they always say this is for you out there in omaha. don't you ever give up your dream. i always think don't tell them that. you have seen you tube and watched the covers? i was going to be like an actor when i was a kid. i felt like i had knowledge that i was the greatest actor of my generation. i will take an acting course. thank goodness they had beta. i watched myself and it was like oh. i don't need to be in this class anymore. you just don't do that. that's an absence. sometimes a dream is the thing

that is blocking the way. >> this is a good one for us. the chapter on how to be a good mental health patient. >> yeah. actually i just mentioned this and i have been on a book tour and mentioned this in an audience. there was a psychiatrist in the front row and i said correct me if i'm wrong, but you need to treat your psychiatrist like a prostitute. you are there for a reason. you are not buddies and you don't need to know i lot about this person. they are there for a specific reason. one function. a therapist can be great and useful. we have a good who is professional. not like the one that raised me when i was a kid. >> we will count that one in. >> the money is on the table and you walk out of the office. it's lifelong friendships with my ladies of the night so i

can't relate that. how to live unhappily ever after. >> i think we figured that out. >> you don't have to be happy. you can be interested. i know a physicist and i couldn't describe this guy as happy, but on the day he dies, i am sure he will have a book propped up reading, he will be riveted. you can be interested and many different things. happy also is ill-defined. you need to be specific with the things you want. if you want happy, it's like what do you mean? joyous at all times? that is mania. >> being sad is right around the corner. >> exactly. >> you also talk about suicide and something that you say you thought about. you talked about it and you finally made a calculation.

even if it wasn't worth it. >> i was so unhappy as a teenager i was going to kill myself. i had my method figured out and i am visual. when i imagined it, i saw the movie unfold in my mind and there was a problem with the plot. this is not going to give me the effect i want. where is the peace? this process is not peaceful. it's going to be shocking like cut my wrists. it's horrifying. >> you said people are driven to suicide because they are desperate for peace. >> there many reasons, but basically your narrowed down and it's this small. in order to feel peace, you have to be alive. you are not going to feel peace if you are dead. the other thing is i wouldn't be there to enjoy how much it hurt those around me. i was a teenager. i realized i don't want to kill

myself, i want to end my life. there is a difference. you can step out of your life. if your life is so small that you think you have to kill yourself, you can literally step out of it. change everything. that can be dramatic and devastating depending on how far you take it. i think it's better than death. >> how do you step out of life? >> i moved and changed my name and moved to california because boston wasn't far enough. i tried to start over. it worked to a degree. you can't run away from your past. >> i didn't ask you this. there certain conflicts between you can't heal and start over. >> you can't ever be brought back to where you were before whatever it is that harmed you occurred. you can reach a place where you can have a lot of holes in you

and it's surprising how well you can do. if you have a terrible grief that occurred, some loss, later five miles down the road of your life, one of the best moments could be there and they exist side by side and it doesn't smooth out or minimize or narrow or reduce what you lost. the surprise is they are like two old men that live inside you. loss and tragedy doesn't have to make you darker. it can make you deeper. that's what is a better way of thinking of healing. i waited when i lost someone in my life to heal. i waited years and years to feel like back the way i did. i wish someone had told me, no, this is the new you now. this is how you are now.

>> you are more of a surrealist. >> i have a fourth grade education. >> you are stoic. >> i'm a stoic, that's right. >> the book is this is how. >> thank you so much. >> up next, joel stein and a quest for masculinity. that's on "morning joe." havi ng a n irregular heartbeat havi called atrial fibrillation ng a puts you at 5 times greater risk of stroke. don't wait. go to afibstroke.com for a free discussion guide to help you talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. that's afibstroke.com. dude you don't understand, this is my dad's car. look at the car! my dad's gonna kill me dude...

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>> 40 past the hour. that was part of the theme song. man made. a stupid quest for masculinity. i like that. you went on man ventures. what were you looking for?

what's going on? >> i went to go see the sonogram and see the gender of my child. when i saw that and they told me it was a penis, i pictured taking that penis camping and playing baseball. >> it's attached to a little boy, you know. >> it was scary. >> it's a little more pressure. i started with a girl. i will be daddy's little girl and now you are like this one is on me. >> i have all girls. i think it's more responsibility. you have to mold. give me girls. >> the second sonogram when they thought it might be a girl because she was crying about body issues and you said it was

low. the doctors asked. >> i scent asking for a number. it was normal, but barely normal. >> barely normal. what did you put yourself through to welcome a man? >> i wasn't trying to be the trucker, i wanted to be the average guy. just a guy. the jurors are not playing. that's for sure. i called the department of defense and saw the boot camp. three days or so. the next thing i knew, they had all four branchs to send me e-mails offering you better and better things. the army started sending me e-mails saying i thought you wanted to be a man. why are you talking to me?

then i realized the emoticon, that's how i decided that was the branch for me. in the first three hours before i did anything, it was hot and i was wearing a lot of layers of uniform and i locked my knees. i fainted. >> he fainted. >> it was humiliating. >> i am going to say something, but isn't a real man being sensitive? >> shut up. no, it's not. that is so 1998. >> 1978 is when i grew up. >> this is what a real man does. a real man rides bears. this is a problem. when you are growing up, you just hung out with girls. you love musicals.

until junior high. the animal collection and you run through the house with a wig on. >> okay, okay. then silk stockings. why don't we take this deeper and tell us about your father. >> my father is a man. he had scars on his knuckles. he got in fights in the bronx. >> how does it make you feel? >> it makes me feel like i grew up in the 70s and i blame my therapist's mom. >> for always goes back to your mom. that's where it started. >> it's partly genetic. i didn't like that stuff. my mom doesn't let me join the boy scouts because she said it was a fascist organization. >> your mom is crazy.

i like her. >> the poor man's upper westside. >> what did you learn on the other side? did you feel like you had to change? >> i thought i learned that being a man was being present and no. it's about getting kneed in the face. it was horrible. i figured they would say no and when they said yes, i couldn't get back out. i earned that these experiences make you a man. the more manly, the more it changed. >> i will tell you this and will get in a lot of trouble. >> go, go. >> i will do it. about five or six years, joey was 6 and andrew was 3. they were getting dressed and at some point i was playing basketball with him and he

starts whimpering. i get on top of him and he has this little -- i take scissors to it. i cut his hair and said get up. you know what he did? he got up. transformative. not the great san fauxtini they were boys and forgot how to do it. >> i am fascinated. >> you were playing that for a while and you are inspired. >> i just made that up. it's man made! t there.

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you think we will get to the headlines. facebook's ipo with the stock market. seen by analysts as an opportunity to reengage small time investors in 2008. they say they were left out and an underwriter morgan stanley warned the clients about-face book's leaking out. the las vegas sign that the man behind the lavish party and the administration with a las vegas conference. jeff has been on the leave when his agency blew $800,000 featuring a clown and a mind reader. that's what you and your family will do for your mother-in-law.

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in case you missed it. >> you are the only candidate ever to go zoo to zoo. >> i love animals whether they

are out in the wild and i love animals in zoos. >> best zoo in the country? >> san diego. >> favorite animal to watch? >> maybe elephants. >> do you like the reptile house? >> yes. >> why? >> they are successful and they do it in a wncht way than we do and they have been successful for a long time. >> favorite snake? >> probably a python? >> why? >> big and passive. >> like the constrictor aspect. what about a ma'am ba. they attack like this and they keep attacking. >> you have a most ruthless approach to politics. >> really pushing that. what if anything did you learn today? [ horn honks ]

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time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned so much. a great guy and i want to wish jack a happy fourth