that's the power of all of us. that's the power of all of us. that's the membership effect of american express. good morning, from new york, i'm chris hayes, george zimmerman, the florida man charged with shooting unarmed teenager, trayvon martin has not yet turned himself in after a judge found he misled the court in his bond hearing. zimmerman has until this afternoon to show up. in egypt, thousands of protesters clashed with police and each other, reacting to sentences handed down for the killing of 800 protesters last year. former president, whoseny mubarak was sentenced to life but six former police commanders were acquitted. joining me is msnbc political analyst, michael

steele. randi wine garden. and former president of the conservative independent women's forum and bob herbert, former "new york times" columnist and distinguished senior fellow and the thank tank, dimos. scott walker becomes the third governor to face recall election. striking distance in the latest polls. democrats fear a loss will reverberate beyond wisconsin. ultimately, the outcome will be determined entirely by turnout. the fact that unions and activists have gotten this far was almost inconceivable a year and a half ago, when walker was first elected. despite the formidable forces arrayed against them, union supporters have engineered recall efforts against wacker and many of his supporters in the state legislature as well, while walker runs tv ads funded by out of state backers.

the race is likely to shatter state spending records, walker has spent $30 million. to just $2.9 spent by barrett. barrett hammered away at walker's out of state backing. >> scott has done a good job traveling around the country and raising millions of dollars and those people have an agenda that's not a wisconsin agenda. it's not about the people in milwaukee or green bay or appleton. it's about the tea party movement and what he can do to make this the tea party capital of this country. >> and it's heart, the wisconsin recall is about the rights of public workers to unionize and collectively bargain. rights that walker eviscerated as soon as he took office. former president bill clinton drove home that point at a rally on friday. >>ky hear it now, wednesday, all of those 350e78 that poured all of those money into wisconsin, if you don't show up and vote --

we'll say, see, we got 'em now, we're going to break every union in america, we're going to break every government in america. we're going to stop worrying about the middle class, we don't give a rip whether poor people get to work into it. we got our way now, we got it all, divide and conquer works, you tell them no. >> i think the story of wisconsin is a fascinating one. it seems to be a microco comcoc our politics. the incredible ferocity with which the agenda was pushed through by scott walker and the republicans who are elected. the backlash it precipitated. the highly unusual recall election and now, you have a state that is this seething polarized intense fraught place with very high stakes. and then on top of that, there's the vision of what post-citizens united campaigns look like. there's a loophole in wisconsin state election law that allows a lot of unlimited money to be

raised, $500,000 checks. it's a somewhat grim vision of what american politics looks like. it seems that we're staring at the future of american politics in the wisconsin race. >> we're dealing with our present. the reality is wisconsin represents in a broader sense how the unions. >> but more importantly, the diminishment of political structure. in other words, a lot of this is not driven by the organized dnc, the organized rnc. it is driven by people. and that is the one thing, that is the one take away going back from when this first began. i always link this to the tea party, as well as the occupy. this movement of people, whether you agree or disagree with the political story. the fact that people now see themselves as engaged through structures that aren't

structured. i think is a very good thing. >> see, i think that's a fascinating point. but i want to point out, there's a massive asymmetry here. if you say, what is it, the law in its majesty allows the rich man and the poor man to sleep under the bridge. that, yes. >> the rich man has more cover. >> the point is that you know, yes, in this new unmediated world where there is no organization, like both you, bob herbert. and you, bodega owner and you, charles and david coke can all participate at whatever level you can participate. and the point is that, the numbers are shocking, it's 30 million to 4 million and there's an estimated of 60 million on scott walker's side. it is this kind of unmediated future. but that unmediated future looks like it concentrates power more in the hands of people who already have it. >> when you say we're looking at the future of the united states, we're looking at the present. but what the, what progressives should be taking away from this

is the reality of what's at stake. and that it is more important now than ever to begin to come together, no matter what happens on tuesday, even if progressives lose on tuesday. that it is time to fight back. otherwise it's going to be game over before very long. >> exactly. so i mean i agree with both michael and bob. but this is not an issue of unions versus scott walker. this reminds me of you know, somebody throws something into a theater. like a smoke bomb or something. and then says -- it's your fault when you're in the theater, running out for cover. the unions actually in wisconsin didn't start this. what they did was they, when walker was elected, they actually gave some concessions in order to balance the budget and walker said no, i'm taking your rights away and then he said, on top of that, i'm cutting billions of dollars of education, i'm stripping away

equal pay for equal work. i'm going to do some work in terms of voter suppression. so what you have here is extremism versus a bunch of people in wisconsin, including some of the unions, saying let's try to fight this mid-course. and i think chris is right. we've gotten to, and it's a "we" because there's hundreds of thousands of people that are doing this, from farmers to workers to kids, high school and college kids. to teachers and nurses, and they basically have gotten to almost this line where then you have millions of dollars of money, fighting against them. >> well you know -- what i was going to add, though, to me, it's not just what's happening in wisconsin, he think this is going to be very important. we talk about what's going to happen at the state level throughout the country. but also with the election, the presidential election in november, here's one of the most pressing and important questions. many states like wisconsin are

facing enormous budget deficits. so there comes a point in time when the entire, american public whether they are republican, democrats, progressives or conservatives sit back and say, some of these arguments are pretty silly. let's have a real discussion about how we not only cut our budget deficit, without raising taxes or taxes at an extraordinary level. but also do something to stimulate the economy. these are questions and statements that need to be made by every state. >> it happens i have a policy solution for you, which is aid to states, put in the recovery act. which republicans have just killed rhetorically every time. they call it a bailout to the states if we cared about states as much as we cared about the banks, we would lend them money at zero%. we care about banks enough to say your balance sheet is in the trash can, we're going to let you warehouse all of your terrible assets on the balance sheet at the federal reserve but loan you money at 0%, but the states, he don't do that. >> as a former state official, the problem with what you just said, this aids to states, it

comes with a very, very long string attacked to it for a lot of these states, who cannot buy into what the federal government proposes. which is often i'm going to give you money now, and you're going to do all these things that's going to increase the debt -- >> baseline. >> this money pales in comparison to what your outlays will be in the future. a lot of states back off of that. and the second piece just to round it out. is that for a state, all money flows down, right? no. it stays at the top. it's like cream it just sits there. so counties, municipalities do not see the raw benefit of getting all this federal funds or even state monies that come from extra taxes 0 whatever the governor proposes. to your point, you're talking to a fundamental realignment of how this system works at the state level. i think that's the beginning of the noise you hear right now. >> and what is the governor supposed to do. if a governor comes into office and you come it and you've got a

$3.6 billion deficit that you're looking at, what do you do? how do you decide what to cut? >> this governor cut corporate taxes and this governor has also, so he cuts the investment to education, he also at the same time, cuts people's rights at the very same time as they were willing to do the concessions. my point is this, people in wisconsin, the workers in wisconsin were willing to deal with governor walker and he turned his back and said no, i'm going to cut your rights, this is america. in america, we actually try to solve problems and what we're seeing -- we should ought to. >> too far ahead of ourselves here. >> but if you don't, i mean we've seen this picture in terms of take great britain. austerity doesn't work to get us out of a recession. >> austerity alone doesn't work. austerity alone doesn't work, that's clear, we need stimulus,

also. >> that's when you're here for, john nickles is online from wisconsin, we'll hear an update from him after the break. yoo-hoo. hello. it's water from the drinking fountain at the mall. [ male announcer ] great tasting tap water can come from any faucet anywhere. the brita bottle with the filter inside.

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we mentioned the asymmetry in wisconsin. this is spending by the campaigns, which does not include spending by outside groups, which in the case of scott walker has been the same. he spent $29 million. barrett has spent $2.9 million. and there's another 30 million coming from outside groups 2346789 terms of the donations we can track and again this is just the donations coming through the campaign. 62% of scott walker's donations are from out of state and 26% from barrett's are from out of state. what this says to me is that the

republican party, the conservative establishment, particularly i think the u.s. chamber of commerce types, view this as, as a defining battle. they view this as, they cannot let scott walker lose, because of what it says about this balance of power. i don't think there's necessarily been from outside the state, the same emphasis and focus from progressive groups. i want to bring in jock nichols, washington correspondent for "the nation" and associate editor of "the capital times" in madison. how are you? >> i've been enjoying the conversation so far. >> i want you to give us your thoughts. one of the things i'm, i find interesting about this is. it seems to me that the, the tenor of politics in wisconsin feel like they have changed in the last two or three years. in some ways the argument that barrett is making is let's get away from this contentiousness. if you don't want this intense contentiousne contentiousness, i'm your guy.

i wonder how effective that is rhetorically. >> tom barrett came in initially and he said, i want to end the civil war. the problem is, there's a lot of folks in wisconsin who frankly like the civil war. they didn't necessarily like the suffering, but we thought it was a pretty good idea. so the thing to understand about tom barrett is he's sincere in saying that. he is a, a conciliator, a guy who tries to bring folks together. he was that in the state legislature, in congress, as mayor. but he's also a very progressive fellow. and as the race has gone on, it's been extremely interesting to see him kind of build up and get a lot stronger. the last debate on thursday night was a remarkable performance for him. i don't say that remarkable like oh, he was the greatest. it stood out because it was so much stronger than i had ever seen him. i will say one other element here. i think that the best way to understand what is going on in wisconsin right now, is that progressive forces are in many

ways arguing for a set of old values. for a sense of how politics has traditionally been done. whereas scott walker has brought in a national template. his campaign in almost every sense has been nationalized, nationalized money. nationalized consultants. nationalized messaging that has far less to do with day-to-day in wisconsin than with this sort of an austerity push that frankly sounds an awfully lot like a lot of european central bankers. >> that, i don't think would be a particularly good ad for tom barrett to run. >> scott walker sounds like jean-claude trichet. >> you referred to, you referred to the debate performance let me play a clip from a particularly strong moment in that debate between walker and barrett.

>> who are you trying to conquer. when you say use those words, what do you mean? >> the special interests. >> that's who you're trying to divide and conquer? >> in our case it's about standing up and finally having someone that's willing to stand up with the hard-working taxpayers of the state. >> it was clear that you weren't going to stop at the public unions and that you were going to continue to pit people against each other. you did intend to divide and conquer, scott, you wanted to pit people against each other. because that's the way you operate. >> this is in response to a now somewhat infamous clip of walker telling someone that his strategy was divide and conquer, first you go after the public unions and then after everyone else. what is the outlook like for the union movement and the labor movement in wisconsin if tuesday does not go their way? >> it's tough. we can't, you know, kind of mince words on this the fact of the matter is that the conversation you refer to between governor walker and his largest single donor, a woman who has given him $510,000 in

basically the last year, was about not just weakening public-sector unions. she asked specifically about enacting right to work for less laws. the concept that you would take away a huge number of rights for private-sector unions. and while the governor says he won't do that, the fact of the matter is, that scott walker has scoped out his governorship on a concept of dramatically weakening unions. it's interesting to note that his last major appearance with an out of state figure was with south carolina governor nicky hailey, who proudly says she's is a union buster and an evangelist for right to work laws. i think that unions are hard placed. >> we have, we have a little bit of sound of nicky healey, proudly pro claim herself a union buster and precipitating the quote. i had enough of feeling embarrassed about my skin.

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any chance we'll ever get to be a completely red state and work on these unions and become a right to work? >> in fact -- >> what can we do to help you? >> we're going to start in a couple of weeks with our budget adjustment bill. the first step is, we're going to deal with collective bargaining for all public employees. >> use divide and conquer. >> that's the infamous divide and conquer comment scott walker gave billionaire diane hendricks, one of his big currentors. >> michelle bernard speaking. question for you, what has been the response of democrats in the state of wisconsin when people i think rightfully ask the question which is what's wrong with asking public employees to contribute to their health care, to contribute to their vision coverage, to contribute to their dental coverage, so that state budget deficit can be reduced? >> i think there's been two responses. first, state employees and remember, this is not just about state employees, it's also about county and municipal employees,

everybody who is in a public-sector job, teacher, nurse, snowplow driver. the first response is that the unions have taken concessions over many, many years. taken furlough days, cooperating in all kinds of efforts to balance budgets. remember, wisconsin has a balanced budget law, we cannot have an unbalanced budget. and so for the last more than 50 years, we've had public-sector collective bargaining, in hard times and good, recessions and upturns and the budget has always balanced. >> in fact milwaukee mayor tom barrett drove a very hard bargain with, with his own municipal employees union. which made them somewhat skeptical of them as a candidate here in precisely these types of negotiations, but got the concessions he needed to close the gap. >> you do not have to take away collective bargaining rights to get public-sector unions in wisconsin to work for this state. >> and that's a really important point.

because it's possible here, to get lost in the weeds and miss the essentials of what's happening. this is about money and power and it's about the concentration of money and power at the top in our society. it's about much more than wisconsin. and what the other side, the you know, i'm on the side of the progressives. what the other side wants to do is keep their folks organized. and make sure that their opponents are not organized. that's why labor unions are such a great threat. they are organize and they can exercise political clout. they don't want people organized in any way and they don't want them to have the kind of money to spend on the political process, that would be effective. so that's essentially what's going on here. >> -- >> and that's why chris is right when he says -- >> smart man -- >> what's going on in wisconsin is giving us a vision of what will happen if we allow it to happen in this country. >> i get your vision thing, all right?

you know i understand it. but you know i'm not buying the sympathies here in terms of all of a sudden, oh, poor unions, they're haphazardly -- >> they're not poor unions. unions are powerful. >> unions -- >> for the first time they have found an opponent that is prepared to deal with them toe to toe. in terms of raising money and organizing, so, yeah, we want, we want the left and the progressives to be organized. because they always have been and they've had the structure to do that. for the first time you're seeing at the grassroots level, you're seeing conservatives organized as well. and the question i have for john in terms of, you foe, i get the idea of wisconsin being this sort of battleground on policy. but let's talk about the politics here. the president has not been to wisconsin. all right? he was near it, the last couple of days. but he's not been in there to press the point. if he's such a union guy, if

he's such a progressive's progressive, where is he? number two, the money. where is the national money? you had the national chairman show up last week. to spend some time raising money. so you know, i hear all the kerfuffle -- i like that word -- about republicans and conservatives pouring in all this money. about you where is the left? this is your moment, this is your chance to -- >> i can't believe i'm agreeing. >> let me answer -- >> john, i want to know, where's the left? >> sure, let me answer michael's question. it's a good one on several fronts. first off, barack obama is a medium-cool president, that's just reality. this is a hot fight. barack obama has stayed at arm's length from this fight from the beginning. it's interesting, so, too, has mitt romney. romney came in during the presidential primary, and said some nice things about scott walker. but he has not been back. and let me emphasize to you. mitt romney doesn't have anything else going on right now.

he could come. both parties, both presidential candidates have stayed away from a fight that is frankly far more intense and far more interesting than the presidential race. now, then let's go dot second part of the question. the second part of the question is about, you know, the left coming in with its money to equal the right's money. it's, it's -- notable that the coke brothers, our friends david and charles, have the ability to in and of themselves put in more money than basically the labor movement should they choose, they haven't gone to that level. they've only come in in the small many millions. but the truth of the matter is that i think people are looking at this in the wrong way. they're looking at it purely as a money versus money fight. that is not what's happening in wisconsin. it is a national -- let me finish the thought, if i might. it is a national money power fight on one side and the governor has an immense amount of money power. versus a people power fight on

the ground. now, i don't want to make this too unnuanced, the truth of the matter is there right wingers, conservatives, who are active on the ground, very energized, but from the labor side, the progressive side, it's unbelievable what is happening. i was in rhinelander, wisconsin, green bay, racine, the biggest problem i had was getting out of the parking lot at the union hall or the call center, whatever people were mobilizing. because there was so many people. i was in racine yesterday, there were 500 people in the parking lot, you know, waiting to go in and get their walking lists. in madison yesterday morning, they were training people to walk in groups of 50. it is an amazing thing going on. >> but it is not. >> where i would disagree with john is that what i've seen, the

times i've been to wisconsin before this fight, and now, during this fight, is that this is workers and regular people, versus money. the unions may actually have an ability to organize. or used to have an ability to organize. look, look at what mitch daniels did in indiana. he went after the public unions first. and then as soon as that was done. then he went after the private unions. so when you see what governor -- >> well let's also not cut out -- >> people actually did not support him. you had republican legislature -- >> but when you looked at the poll numbers about going after right to work, people said, why are you doing this instead of -- >> let's also not -- i had a friend who was a political organizer once who said signs don't vote. the same thing is true about dollars, right? i mean -- there's money and there's a huge amount. we're happenering home this money point but there's genuine mobilization among actual people on the right in the milwaukee

suburbs, it is an activated populace on both sides, let's talk more about what the fight looks like after a break. as effectively as what's sold by skin professionals for a whole lot less. olay pro x advanced cleansing system. the charcoal went out already? [ sighs ] forget it. [ male announcer ] there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford charcoal.

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everyone grows with miracle-gro. talking about the money power and people power and the balance between the two in wisconsin. we have john nichols in madison, wisconsin. the asymmetry money is, is eye-opening and shocking when you see it. and it portends i think ugly things about the future of politics, the present of our politics. that said, there is mobilization among the citizenry of wisconsin on both sides, right? there's progressive mobilization and conservative mobilization. and what's been interesting about watching wisconsin unfold is that there's a lot of mobilization against scott walker elected. a massive progressive countermobilization when you pass the collective bargaining law. we saw the protesters in the

streets of madison, the capital and it seems a counter-counter-mobilization from conservatives on the right in response to that. you have two intensely mobilized poll la populaces right now is that where things are? >> i can say bluntly that scott walker would not be competitive in this race without the money. the money brought him back from the wilderness. he was in terribly bad shape and spending $30 million amazingly enough, has an impact. >> but once we get beyond the money and start talking about what's going on with people. there's simply no question that there is a conservative mobilization, it's very intense and very real. it's different than the labor progressive mobilization. the conservative mobilization is much more through direct mail, through phone conversation, through some rallies with americans for prosperity and

groups like that. the labor mobilization is a return to something that frankly we haven't seen in a long time in wisconsin or most other states. which is, physical presence. i mean people -- i have been in towns of 7,000 or 8,000, towns of 3,000 or 4,000 where as i drive into town, i see people walking the streets with clipboards, knocking on doors. you just haven't seen that in a long time. >> can i make a contributing point then? what we see is oh, this horrible conflict between that has riven wisconsin, the civil war as it's called and randy you've talked about sort of pining for days of more comity and more order. >> that's true. >> but maybe regular order equals apathy and activated citizenry of this kind with people in the streets of kinds is what democracy should be about. >> have a very real and honest

discussion. about what the role of public-sector and private-sector union should be in our politics. i mean my stance on this is a little bit nuanced. >> i don't think we're having that discussion. >> i think we should. i think it's something we should be discussing. there has to be, i believe people who sit back and ask very basic questions that have nothing no do with how much money anyone is putting into the wisconsin race or elsewhere. but at what point in time do private corporations for example, private individuals begin to feel like they solely exist to feed, to feed unions? >> wait, wait. >> i'm playing devil's advocate. we go back and look at boeing, how is it possible that a union can be so powerful that they can be in a position where they can prevent a private company from moving from one state to another? >> it's a basic fundamental question of fairness. >> let's look, just look a of wd in terms of wage inequality in

this country. when we had a third of the united states of america, was in unions in the 1970s, our economy in the '60s, the '50s, the '60s, our economy was, was the envy around the world. we were a growing middle class. between 73 and now, we've gone from 34% unionization to 8% unionization. at the same exact time we've had huge wage inequality. there have been places after places after places where when you don't have people having the right to have some way of bargaining their wages, you see wages in the middle class going down. that is what the union movement is about. they're not, it's not an independent entity. and so, if we're talking about the united states and growing a middle class. we need to actually have workers have a voice. >> can i just say, can i just say one thing? just empirically in terms of the data, you cannot look at the data about the american political economy and conclude

anything but that unions are on the decline, median wages have stagnated. inequality have gone up. corporate profits have gone up. those are the facts on the table. whether you think the balance is still out of skew with 8% union density and stagnating median wages, you can make that argument. but you cannot make an argument that unions have been in assent or that corporate wages have been declining. >> it's a question of fundamental fairness, why should the corporations and the bosses on the one side be organized and the workers not be organized to fight for their own interests? workers have to be organized. >> no problem with that, bob. but the problem is i get the landscape as you both laid it out here. but the reality of it is, you cannot act like the unions have not contributed to their own decline. you cannot act like unions have just sat back and they've been the victim of some right-wing

conspiracy to come in and defund them or disorganize. >> so you'll be contributed, they've contributed to that slide by their aggressive behavior. the mandates they put on their workers to extract monies -- don't -- >> wait, wait. and what about the banks? >> some wonderful panacea to all of our problems, they're not. sorry, they're not, wake up. >> you should be more aggressive. the left should be more aggressive. the right -- >> why should we -- >> this is a very good -- hey, hold on a s.e.c. -- >> the left with the unions in the first place so that's the problem. by the statement you just made, you've now excluded a whole bunch of pro union republican or conservative workers out there -- >> hold on. >> help a brother out here, hold on a second, randi? john nichols, i'm going to thank you, thank you for staying on the line. we're going -- from madison, wisconsin, thanks so much and obviously we'll all be watching

your reporting closely the next few days. >> it's going to be a hell of a ride. >> i want to actually, i want to do one more, let's talk about this, i want to talk about the boeing case and button up this broad union conversation.

and if they the ceo says we're going to move this and get rid of your job, seattle boeing workers because you pursued protected bargaining rights, that's illegal by the nlra. the nlrb said was enough cause to issue an investigation. it didn't stop them from doing

anything, eventually the case got dropped. but i think people hear this and they think, oh my god, the unions have people, they're really calling the shots here. and the fact of the matter is, we do have a set of rights that are enshrined in the law. the problem is in actuality, those rights enshrined in the law in the new deal of the wagner act, the labor relations act have been chipped away by a variety of means. a lot of them having to do with lack of enforcement or breaking the law and the companies just choosing pay fines. if you for instance, illegally hire someone who is trying to unionize, you have to pay back wages. okay, throw a few thousand dollars, you've stopped them from unionizing. we've seen a variety of ways that the right enshrined in our laws have been eviscerated and chipped away on the actual

ground. that's the long-term perspective of what unionization in this country looks like. and i think what i like about that scott walker clip is i want republicans to be honest and say, we don't want there to be unions that exist. i think most republicans think, it would be a good thing if all 50 states were right 0 work and there were no labor unions in america and let's have that argument. i think that's actually the honest one. i don't think republicans are there yet. but i feel like isn't that the case? don't you think that's the case? >> i think that's the case. i don't necessarily subscribe that all republicans view labor unions through the same lens as nicky haley and some others. a right 0 work state like virginia and some others. i, you know, as i go back to the point i was making with bob. that is, you know, there are a lot of you know, blue-collar union republican/conservative workers out there who do not necessarily subscribe to this anti-union view. the frustration they have, the broader point i was trying to make in that rhetorical rocket

we were on, is that over the last 30 to 40 years, since the 1960s, we've seen a diminishment of the effectiveness of unions by the way they have, the union bosses, folks like to say, have behaved in projecting union power. and that has turned off a lot of those same workers. >> i'm going to end it there, we'll return to this, the union boss to your left disagrees. we'll stim stip late that for the voter purng in florida [ male announcer ] what's in your energy drink? ♪ power surge, let it blow your mind. [ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8. the charcoal went out already? [ sighs ] forget it. [ male announcer ] there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford charcoal.

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all right. a little beastie boys intro. the state of florida, now has three days left to tell the department of justice whether the state will comply with doj's demand to stop purging thousands from its voters rolls.

so far, florida has shown defiance. on friday, a spokesperson to secretary of state ken detsner. told the "huffington post," we're committed to doing the right thing and preventing ineligible voters from being able to cast a ballot. we're not going to give up efforts to make sure florida rolls are accurate. the systematic removal of thousands of people from its rolls without doj approval seemingly violates the voting rights act of 1965, hence of smackdown from the doj. this is not the first time florida has denied residents the right to vote. the nonpartisan brendan center estimates that florida wrongfully disenfranchised 12,000 qualified voters before the 2,000 election decided by a marge of of 537 votes. only after the election was over did florida admit its effort was flawed. >> a two-year effort to eliminate tens of thousands of

voters from the voter elimination list. the state hired a private company to aid fi ineligible voters. and even the company admits, its own list had errors. >> today republican governor of florida rick scott's list of suspected noncitizens stands in total of 182,000 names. also this week, a federal judge blocked the enforcement of key provisions in florida's new restrictive voter i.d. law passed in late 2001. which i should add is separate from the state's attempts to purge its voting rolls of noncitizens. florida's efforts are not unique. 15 states across the country passed new voting laws in past year alone. as many as five million people could be affected in the 2012 elections. at the table is ari burman, author of "herding donkies" the fight to reshape american politics doing the best reporting on this in the country. it's great to have you here. >> it's been fun to cover.

never a dull moment. >> it's incredibly eye-opening. florida strikes me as the absolute vanguard in this respect. is that a fair statement there? they're the most out there, the most extreme in their efforts. >> it's florida, okay? so you say the word florida and you mention things like voting and people start to pay attention. but rick scott was elected in 2010 he did three things immediately. number one, he revoked the right for ex-felons to be able to vote which happened under charlie cyst in 2008. immediately that was one of the first things he did in office. 100,000 people couldn't vote who would have been able to vote. a few months later he passed this omnibus election reform bill that basically did two things. number one, it made it harder for nonpartisan groups to register voters, people like the league ever women voters and rock the vote. very noncontroversial group, they made it onerous for them to register voters. and he cut short early voting from 14 to eight days, including

banning it on the sunday before election when african-american churches historically mobilize their constituents. those three things, the cutback in voter registration drives and ut cutback in early voting happened before the latest voter purge. >> that's the pretext. >> that's the pretext. and we should note i mean in all of these cases there are tremendous racial disparities in the affected population. the data mass registration drives by third-party groups. higher percentage of african-american and hispanic voters are registered through those than white voters, right? >> twice as much african-americans than hispanics registered to vote through voter registration drives in 2008 than white voters, african-american accounted for 54% of early voters in 2008. it's no coincidence at what republicans are doing. they look carefully at how obama won. who voted and the tactics they used. voter registration drives, early vote wrg key to obama victory.

they put the photo i.d. laws in effect, we know not only 11% of americans don't have these, 20% of african-americans and 20% of young specifically targeted the core of the obama voters. african-americans, hispanics and young voters. >> it seems to be a national trend. british counterterrorism expert harvard business school based on special forces training, it's a miles-long obstacle course that inspires people and bimds team work, with 30 events in 2012, tough matter will earn more than $70 million. hi, i'm phil mickelson. i've been fortunate to win on golf's biggest stages. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit, even the smallest things became difficult.

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[ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biolog medicine what happens when classroom teachers get the training... ...and support they need? schools flourish and students blossom. that's why programs like... ...the mickelson exxonmobil teachers academy... ...and astronaut sally ride's science academy are helping our educators improve student success in math and science. let's shoot for the stars. let's invest in our teachers and inspire our students. let's solve this. of how a shipping giant can befriend a forest may seem like the stuff of fairy tales. but if you take away the faces on the trees...

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they are most likely to suppress the vote of. young voters, african-american voters particularly and now with the new voter purge, latino voters. michael, what do you say, when you hear this? >> well you know, i believe in having fair and open access to the ballot box. i think that you know, like a lot of things in this country, that's underreported what happens on election day. at various polling places around the country. i mean people generally don't you know, highlight the problems that may occur. now that there's a focus and an emphasis on those problems in trying to deal with them, i think it's a good thing. if it means we're going to open up the process. for the gop i've always said going back to when i was a state chairman and certain as an elected official, don't be afraid of the ballot box, don't be afraid of folks who go to the ballot box. always be in a forward position of encouraging people to have access to that ballot box, it has to be a fair and open process. but let's open this thing up in a way that they're not then labeled as trying to suppress the vote, which we're not,

rank-and-file republicans are not out there trying to suppress the vote. there's a general call for rehabilitating our electoral system. i happen to disagree with purging felons. i thing there's on a case-by-case basis, you can make the argument for someone to come back into the system to be a part of the voting population. so my broader point is, i think the party is kind of put itself into rhetorical hot spot unnecessarily. by creating an impression that our, our end goal is to tell black folks, we don't want you to vote. and that is not the case at all. >> but let's be clear about the way that american politics works. i mean it is the case that 90% of voters voted for barack obama. african-americans, what 92, something like that there are certain constituencies, particularly true of african-american voters, that vote reliably for one party. so it is strategic imperative, even if you are the most

racially enlightened republican in the universe, right, to create obstacles for people you know are going to vote against you to go to the polls. >> but when you're voting at those percentages, 90-10, 98-2, you're not going to impact that vote to the point where unless you can get that vote down to 60%, or 50%, that's a heck of a lot of suppression. >> but these -- in it doesn't take much to tilt the balance. >> 537 votes. >> 12,000 ineligible people, 12,000 eligible voters kicked off the rolls in 2000 in florida, that was 22 times the margin of victory for george w. bush and i have to say, one of the biggest lies perpetrated by the republican party, i think in this election has been -- 41% of them were african-americans, tle times the number of african-americans in the state. they voted for -- >> we can't assume. the key, the key core truth about american politics is

precisely that. you can't assume. >> where are then, the if that's the case, michael, where are the corporate ceos that will stand up and say this voter suppression is wrong? this anti-diversity is wrong? where are people -- look, chris was the one who said -- >> you defined the ad as exclusively voter suppression. >> i define it with a big negative. there's voter suppression in this country, the republican party is pushing it. and it is racist. and i cannot believe that there's anything -- >> i got to -- >> my story in the "rolling stone" -- >> look at what, aside, look at what has happened even in florida. the moment that scott was electe elected, crist, a republican, said this is wrong. we're going to make sure that people get a second chance, put all of these folks back on the rolls. >> you're talking about felons?

>> ex-felons. the moment scott gets elected he says we're going to start purging. the moment walker gets elected, starts purging. you have in 15 states, since 2010, you see these kinds of with republicans, these kind of roll suppression. where is the outrage on the other side about that? >> can i also just say, just make a broader point? there's no reason that in 2012, people should have to affirmatively register to vote. i'm sorry, you, somehow amazingly, the post office always knows where i live. and you know. >> my biggest thing, whether you're a republican or democrat, nine million people were unable to vote in 2008 according to m.i.t. for a variety of problems. not knowing where their polling place is, not being on the voter rolls. et cetera. instead of making it easier for those nine million to vote. we've made it harder for five million people to vote. if you care about democracy, no matter which party you represent, you should be

concerned about how difficult it is to vote. >> i want to play an example of a 90-year-old veteran, who was sent a letter indicating -- they, they made this list that was over 180,000 people and sent out letters to the first 2600 in the group. they send them to local county election supervisors who can then choose to send them on or not send them on. the first attempts at the purge. some of the local election supervisors said we're not going to do it because we don't trust the data. this is 91-year-old veteran who was sent a letter indicating florida did not think he was a citizen. >> i never had any trouble. i voted here for the last 15 years, around here. and i voted in brooklyn. when i lived in brooklyn. and i really don't understand it. it's -- to me, it's like an insult. >> so that's, that's just a colorful illustration of your point, ari. >> i think the voting rights

movement needed someone like this. they needed a 91-year-old world war ii veteran that everyone can say looks like my grandpa and say why is he on the nonvoter rolls. the first batch targeted these 2600 voters. three-fifths were in miami-dade county, which is overwhelmingly democratic and 20% of those voters were actually voters. they weren't noncitizens, they were eligible voters. you look at the number. if you take 20% of 182,000, that's 35,000 potentially eligible voters that florida would take away the right to vote for. >> i want to bring in judith brown co-advancement project. and there's a legal case here. we're talking about policy case or moral case. there's a legal case here that has been happening in florida, violates the voting rights and act there's a federal judge who

agreed with that argument. what was the argument about how that violated the voting rights act. >> well, hi, thanks, chris, for having me. this actually the case that went forward was a case against the law that restricted voter registration drives. and that case basically what florida did was you know, not only were they attempting to put roadblocks in the way of voting and also registering. there was a 48-hour rule. if you did registration, you had to turn in those registrations within 48 hours or they could fine you. and not just the organization you were doing the registration for, but also, the individual person. and so, this really had an impact on registration drives. so groups like the league of women voters, who had been doing voter registration in florida for 75 years. shut down their registration drive. and as ari said, we also know that people of color tend to register more often through voter registration drives.

so that was knocked out. so florida has a black eye on that. but then the next thing is the purge stuff. so i feel like i'm living like you know it's the movie "groundhog day" where i just keep reliving the same story since 2000. it happened in 2004. and now here we are again, going through it again. >> i want you to articulate what actually just bore in on the details. the voting rights act is such -- arguably one of the most important, if not the most important piece of legislation passed in the 20th century. i want you to articulate why this was in violation of that very important law after this. [ groans ] [ marge ] psst.

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i can't imagine anybody, anybody would target anybody. i think, think what your expectation is is that your government makes sure that it does everything we can to have fair elections. that only people that register to vote, vote. >> and the brilliance of the voting rights act is that it recognizes that the history of voter suppression and disenfranchisement of african-americans in particular has been the history of policies that can be called race-neutral, right? illiteracy test doesn't say if you're black, you can't vote. it looks at the disparity impact. you can always defend these policies in racially-neutral terms. we're just trying to insure the

integrity. how does the getting rid of third-party registrars and registration drives run up against the voting rights act? >> well it runs up against the voting rights act because any time that you have a policy that you put in place, that disproportionately impacts people of color, it's you know, it gives you the evidence that in fact, there was a, there might be a discriminatory intent. but you don't have to show that the legislature set out with the intent. the impact, it fell disproportionately on people of color and in this case, with information, the evidence shows in fact, african-americans and latinos actually tend to register through these voter registration drives, more than anyone else. and that if you roll back voter registration drives and the legal of women voters and rock the vote and naacp for example, can't do voter registration drives, it makes it harder for

blacks and latinos to vote. so that's why it falls under the voting rights act. i'll tell you that you're right, chris, i mean when we look at literacy tests, it's not like you know, literacy tests were passed by states and you know, in every state they said, we're trying to target black people. we don't want them to vote. instead it was that they just put these laws on the books. knowing who this would target. just like voter i.d. if you look at voter i.d. in wisconsin where we have a voting rights lawsuit, under the voting rights act. we brought that case because 78% of black males between the ages of 18 and 24 do not have state-issued photo i.d. in wisconsin. and so it has an impact on blacks and latinos, we think that legislatures knew this. they knew who they were going to impact at the end of it. i don't need to care about the intent. as long as i show the impact, that's enough. >> but you know, taking this a step back, we should be trying

to encourage people to vote. not trying to take their rights away. and so that's why since 2010, it's like you see state after state after state, have done these voter i.d. laws, voter suppression laws, florida and wisconsin were the worst case in my judgment. and the thank god for the department of justice and the naacp, they came in and they said, stop it. >> i have a question for you, judith. on that point. this is michael steele. to the point that was just made about the justice department and others, what is the ultimate adjudication here? i mean where, where are the indictment of election officials? where are the indictment of election programs or strategies by the justice department or more importantly, by a federal, federal court or the supreme court? how do you see this being played out from a judicial perspective, if there is this, this wholesale

assault on the voting rights act and people feel they're being disenfranchised, how is it playing out in the courts? >> i think we'll see over the next few months, there's a number of cases pending. we're involved in cases in texas, we have case in wisconsin. and we have a case in pennsylvania. which is actually under their state constitution, not the voting rights act. but i mean it's important that we, we will see. because this really hasn't played out before like the indiana law, that passed, was actually under the constitution. now we're finally seeing the numbers and we're seeing what the impact is so that we're able to bring these voting rights act cases. it's really important that the department of justice actually has stepped up. and we're, we're very excited about that. we actually sent them advancement project, a letter about these florida purges on may 17th. saying to them, hey, this is happening in florida. we need you to stand up, because actually they are covered, florida has several counties

that are covered by section 5 of the voting rights act. so they have to go before justice to actually get it approved. and so the department of justice just the end of last week, stepped up and said to florida in fact, advancement project is right. they didn't say it in their letter. but actually -- but they should have. the advancement project is right. you have to come before justice and get this approved. and by the way, let's add this -- to what scott has done. in fact, you can't purge people under the national voter registration act. within 90 days of an election. so why the last-minute change of the game? why the last-minute purges? i think we know the answer. >> doj, it's also important, is challenging new voter restrictions also in texas and south carolina. which are among the worst in the country. but it's also important to note, that section five of the voting rights act, which is what the doj used to challenge the florida law and other states, that is being challenged by at least six different republican

states. there was just an eye peels court verdict in chebly county, alabama, which forced states to get a ruling from the federal government this going to the supreme court and the supreme court could very well overturn section 5, that would be a catastrophe for voting rights. >> section 5 is the voting rights act of 1965 creates a special set of procedures in which the department of justice and the federal government has to preclear any changes to voting laws in the covered states, the states and some of the counties of -- >> they've hinted they might do it. if this happened. this would be the citizens united for voting rights. >> judith brown dianis civil rights attorney and co-director of the advancement project, thanks for joining us this morning. ari berman, political correspondent for the naigs magazine, thanks for joining us. what did two mild-manored wonks say that got them thrown out of polite d.c. society? o, ot of bounty extra soft

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thomas mann and northern orrinstein, two well-respected scholars have a new book out blaming the country for the political dysfunction. "it's even worse than it looks." here's a sample. quote, the republican party has become an insurgent outliar, ideologically extreme, contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime. scornful of compromise, unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition. going against the conventional wisdom that both sides do it appears to have consequences. just recently, orrinstein said since the book came out on may 1st none of the sunday shows has invited them on to discuss their latest work. for nears, until now, they've been staples of the sunday shows, they're brand in washington, the go-to guys when

the media need a quote from a political expert. i'm pleased to have them here, doing their first sunday news program. thomas mann of the brookings institution and norman orrinstein of the american enterprise institute. and former president of the conservative independent women's forum. gentlemen, let's talk about the central thesis, which i think is one that people that covered, i spent a few years in washington as editor of "the nation," covering the hill, it's very apparent if you're covering washington day by day. but i think poorly understood outside washington. this idea that we have a constitutional system set up. and we now have norms that have been established, particularly in the republican party. that are somehow intention with that constitutional system. elaborate what that story is. >> there really is a huge mismatch now between the kind of political parties we have, which are highly polarized, very

strategic and engaging in a permanent campaign against the other. and the set of political institutions under which we have to come to some agreement. that is, we have parliamentary-like parties, but we have a separation of power system, which majority can't act. this is made even more troublesome because one of those political parties has veered off the tracks. they've been aggressively oppositional in every respect. and they have tools, including the filibuster in the senate, to deny the majority an opportunity to act. and even if they can't defeat it, they can take steps to string it out, to discredit it. to delegitimize whatever happens and then they can even take steps to nullify it by refusing to confirm the agency heads that are needed to make the laws

work. >> we've seen it with the cfpb, the consumer financial protection board, in which dowd-frank was passed, it's a duly instituted law. there's been objections from republicans saying we don't op to the specific individual you have nominated to head the agency, we object to the existence of the agency and we noent nominate anyone. it doesn't matter. i guess the question is, how high on the list is the filibuster and filibuster abuse in how, in what's causing the dysfunction? >> well it's certainly a major part of it. and part of what's going on here is this is a very different use of the filibuster than we have ever seen in the history of debate in the senate. the last several years, it's not a filibuster used on occasion with an issue of great national consequence where a minority feels deeply and intensely about it it's used routinely even in nominations and legislation that ultimately passes unanimously.

simply as a weapon of obstruction. you're now allowed after a filibuster is broken, 30 hours of debate. republicans have decided to use all 30 hours, they don't debate. just so they can run out the clock in effect. but it's not the only thing. you know, it's not just the consumer financial protection bureau. it's the center for medicare and medicaid services. to keep the health law from being implemented. and it's also, i should add, you know, you look at examples of things that have gone wrong. we had republicans in the senate push hard for a commission to deal with the debt problem. a congressionally-constituted commission with more teeth than the simpson-bowles one that was ultimately created. in the end, seven original co-sponsors in the senate voted against their own bill to preserve a filibuster because they didn't want to give president obama what would look like a victory. >> this is one of the key elements of this. there are the institutional problems, the way filibuster has

been exploited. the fact that we have this constitutional system of checks and balances, and not a parliamentary system which worked when you don't have parties that act in a parliamentary manner. but also this idea that it has become the case if i am a republican and a democrat adopts my position, i by definition can no longer endorse said position. which makes any kind of compromise impossible. we've seen it on the individual mandate. which of course emanated from the hallowed halls of the conservative think tanks, we've seen it on climate change. what changed to make this the case? >> it tells you it's more than ideological differences. it's an all-out war. it means as an opposition party, you are prepared to change your position if it will prevent the president of the other party from realizing any kind of victory. >> but this is the thing that i

never understand when we tell this story. when we try to think about this story. that has always been the case. why weren't, those incentives, incentives for total obstruction seem to me always seem to be the case. you always want to beat the other guy. if politics ain't bean bag, why hasn't that always been the case. why haven't former republican majorities said you know that now you believe in this, we don't any more. >> problem-solving used to be the name of the game. i can go back to everett dirkson, working with lyndon johnson to get the voting rights act through. in a way that was not going to necessarily work to the advantage of his party in the short-run. problem-solving has taken a back seat to short-term victories. >> that sounds suspiciously like a plat tud to me. i want to dig into that after this. that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition.

could've had a v8. the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number. he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us.

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dysfunctional government in washington, particularly the extremism of the republican party and how the party has evolved in such an extreme fashion, it's made governance extremely difficult, if not impossible in washington. i want to give a little empirical grounding to this. because there's one of these arguments you can have that can begin to sound very abstract about who is more extreme than whom. politicians have come up, keith poole, political scientist keith poole and howard rosenthal have come up with this now famous index, a way of analyzing where parties are in their ideological extremism and here's a graph showing house polarization 1879 to 2011. what you see is the upwards tick of the 90% republican and 10% republican, the ends of the party, they shoot up much faster than the bottom two lines. which means they're veering off to the right much faster than the democrats are veering off to the left and the same thing more

or less for the senate if they can show that up. although that's a little messier. if you look at the dw nominate score, there is some empirical grounding here. we were talking about the causal story. and you say, they've become implacably opposed to the political opposition they face. but i don't understand why that's different than someone you say, it used to be about problem-solving. why was it about problem-solving before. why were there a certain set of cultural norms that pertained in washington before and now those norms are different? >> it's a combination of things, partly there were prior to this polarization, a number of republicans who were outside of that zeitgeist, who wanted to legislate. but over time, they came to leave the party and the center of gravity in the party became vehemently ideological and oppositional. and then the backdrop to this in

the broader society with the new media, really came to support a whole new set of norms that said, we, we are engaged in a holy war. >> i'm sitting back, not as a political scientist, just as your average citizen watching all of this. i look at the differences between how republicans and democrats interact with one another, with the democrat sitting in the white house and republicans hated bill clinton. but he was able to get welfare reform passed. he was able to get nafta passed. and so you sit back and you have to ask yourself, well what's different now? we've got barack obama in office and all of a sudden the polarization to me seems to be even worse. the anger, the statements of we want to take our country back. and there's a part of me that has to ask, do you feel in doing the research for the book, that any of this has, in any way whatsoever has to do with the fact there are a lot of people

on the right who are frankly just angry that the president of the united states is a black man, and are willing to basically destroy the country from a legislative perspective to make sure that not only does he not win. but the democrats don't win. we've got push-back on passing the violence against women act. push-back on so many legislative things that you think would be a complete no-brainer. >> race is never far from the surface in american politics. but if you look back at some of the things written and said about bill clinton in 1993 and '94. i remember wall street editorials that placed him close to being an accessory of murder when he was governor of arkansas. it's true that in '96 we got cooperation. but in '94 and '95 we had total opposition, unanimous opposition to everything. it worked in the '94 elections. then we got the shut-down of the government. newt saw that was going to lead to disaster for republicans in congress and cooperated through a year and a half. and then of course we led to

impeachment. if we're looking at causes of this. newt is a major part. and part of it is understandable. >> a pioneer. >> the fact is when republicans were problem-solving, they were in the minority for 40 consecutive years. newt saw the way to move it to a majority. it took him 16 years but he got it. now we're in an era of party competition, where anybody can win. you put it together with the demise of moderate republicans and the stakes being much higher and all of it is a toxic stew. >> let me make the point that part of what in terms of race 40 years after it happened, right? so we had this histiccal accident in terms of partisan affiliation, that sorting process essentially worked itself out.

you don't have this crossing any more. but that crossing which people kind of pine for was just happened to be historical accident about which party essentially occupied the south during reconstruction. there's no like justification for it it's hard to see how we go back to that right? that was an historical accident. we can't reconstitute the strained geography borne out by the civil war. >> i think you have to look at it from the angle of, it's not just the you know, republican conservatives who kind of found their teeth and their bearing now. on policy and other issues. but you also look at the impact within the democratic party as well. i mean you've got this blue dog democrats, as much as we pine for moderate republicans, oh, my god, where are they? where is that conservative voice, that moderate voice within the democratic party? and to the point about barack obama, absolutely race is not just beneath the surface, it is on the surface. okay? that's number one. for both parties, quite frankly.

number two, i think the reality of it is, with barack obama versus the bill clinton. you have much more of an ideological split. bill clinton for whatever you want to say about him, was a good old boy. he was a home boy. he had the conservatism in him to a degree that people felt more comfortable than they do with someone -- >> let's correct the record here for a second. you say that now, but that was not what republicans were saying about bill clinton. they were calling him a socialist, draft-doidging, pot-smoking. >> i got that, you're right. to the point you made, bill clinton did something that hasn't happened yet. and that is, found those pieces of legislation where, where a newt gingrich and he could work together. newt just like reagan, had tip o'neil, clinton had, you know, newt. >> you were shaking your head

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just one of over 70 satisfying recipes for one from stouffer's. michael steele just made the case that you hear often, which is that both parties are at fault polarization and barack obama has refused to compromise in ways that others would. >> he's having a small c conniption. >> why is that not the case? >> bill clinton and barack obama are very much alike ideologically and even in terms of procedure, and approach to the republicans, democrats had their days of movement, that would be the '60s and early '70s. but once the dixiecrats left the democratic party, the rest of

them have stayed on a pretty even keel. the movement has been on the republican side of the u.s., where are the moderate democrats? they're in the white house. they're in the leadership. they are now -- >> believe me, i agree. >> they are a center-left party that would like nothing better than to make deals to preserve the social safety net, to deal with the problems of budget deficits, and the rest. >> so barack obama's politically tone-deaf then. because he can't seem to find that core, that bill clinton did, to get -- >> no, that's what i'm saying, the republicans are on strike. >> it's entirely a matter of what the republican party is doing. because they are the ones that have become much more committed to all-out opposition. barack obama's election was the occasion for an explicit statement from the republicans,

we are in this to defeat barack obama. we have no interest in passing a welfare reform bill. we're in a war. and that's what it's all about. >> can i offer my own theory? you're telling a cultural story and about the way that norms change and the way that conservative institutions have promoted that. and the political entrepreneurship of a young newt gingrich. how much do you think my own version of the story has to do with inequality and the version of the story is that there's a set of interests, political, economic interests that are at the core of the republican party and a set of the core of the democratic party, and the inequality allows the republican party to be more extreme. it's not trying to simultaneously represent capital and labor the way the democratic party is. it has, it can essentially just represent the interests of the chamber of commerce. and be protected. >> well i do think in the post citizens united world, it's going to be become more and more

the case that you become a handmaiden to a small group of people who will put billions in. and they will threaten to put the billions against you if you don't go along with it. that's part of it. but it's broader than that, it's a strategic decision made by leaders. getting back to michael's questions. you just look at some examples. the health care bill was not just the individual mandatings it was the republican alternative drafted by grassley and hatch to the 1993 clinton bill which of course they opposed totally. not a single vote for it in either house. and grafted on to the romney care bill. we went into seven months, this wasn't obama saying take it or lien looef it. seven months of painful negotiations in the senate where grassley himself. who opposed everything he supported before, stood up and said, unless we get 70% of the republicans in the senate, we're not going to do it. stimulus, 40% was tax cuts, no votes in the house. three weeks into the presidency, we know that it was a strategic

choice made inaugural eve by leaders. >> you have some discussion of solutions here and obviously we could do two hours on this topic. in some ways the core central topic of our politics. you have solutions which we'll not get to today, i'll use it to have a tease to have you back up on the program. the authors of the new book "it's even worse than it looks." what we should know for the news week ahead, coming up next. more suntans... in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start. our beatches are even more relaxing... the fishing's great. so pick your favorite spot on the gulf... and come on down. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. we charge everything else... maybe it's time to recharge the human battery.

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in just a moment, what you should know for the week ahead. first a personal update. you ma i have heard me say before, i have a book coming out on june 12th. it's called "twilight of the elites" america after mayor tockcy, it's abouted crisis of authority in political life. available for preorder at online retailers, the update is that i'll be doing book events in new york city on june 12 and 14, i would love to see you there or any other upcoming appearances around the country.

can you find those at facebook.com/twilightoftheelites . or on the "up with chris hayes" website. as the campaign ramps up, you should know a wall street journal found that democrats had a big change of heart when it comes to whether a president should stand up for his convictions or seek common ground. democrats strongly preferred a president from 35 to 45% and today they want a president who stands on conviction by 45 to 50%. the poll found that 65% of americans want a president who stands his ground. republicans are moving much further to the right than democrats are moving to the

left. part of the cause of this, or the members of the parties themselves have different views on compromise. the future of regulatory reform is in your hands. there's a topic that we have covered and "rolling stone" is teaming up to use social media. thunder clap is a social media tool for people to tweet a message at the same time. you should know you can final out how to be a part of that by going to thunder clap. on tuesday voters can replace republican gorve not scott walker. one senator has resigned rather than face the recall election. wisconsin recall is really the single most expensive race in the history of that state.

walker has raised $30.5 million since january 2011 and has spent almost all of it. of the total walker has raised, 59% has come out of state. democrat tom barrett has raised $3.9 million to win 26% of barrett's donations came outside of wisconsin. you should know the right wing of the conservative establishment around the country view this election has a did i vice sif moment towards fin nshing the product that they have been working on for 80 yours. you should know it is entirely possible and increasingly likely wle union left in america. you should know that that future is not inevitable. let's begin with you, mr. michael steele, what should folks know? >> when scott walker wins on tuesday -- >> talking smack. >> -- yes, but the reality is, nothing changes.

you're going to get into the summer lull and people will gear up for the battle this november. there's going to be a little bit of hoopla on tuesday and wednesday but it doesn't really mean anything. >> michelle, what should folks know? >> going into next week and the next year, the lawyers committee for civil rights under law, probably the most important civil rights organization in the country, getting ready to celebrate their 55th anniversary. they are here. they will have boots in every part of the country. in the united states and lawyers committee for civil rights under law is here to help all americans protect their right to vote. >> here, here, here. >> we've talked about the things happening in florida and wisconsin and around the nation.

what should folks know? >> we started the hour -- or two hours ago talking about all this new organization and how social media and individuals have kind of taken over in terms of this organization. well, the uber, eber group is meeting this week. they talk about what to do in terms of boots on the ground and using social media to really shine a light on all of these issues. >> i'm going to say, i've spoken there, it's always a great time. >> it's amazing. >> it's a lot of people that just -- it's a lot of people that are teachers or firefighters are insurance executives, just from all over the country who have tremendous commitment and passion about progressive politics. >> exactly. it's a great experience. >> this is the context of the recent dismal jobs numbers. only a little more than half of recent college graduates even have full-time jobs and many of

them are working in jobs that do not require a college education. so that has implications. we know the economy is not working very well right now. but that raises the question of whether the economy is presently structured, even can work. >> you know, you've opened up with like a few seconds left in the show, you've opened up a big topic which is something that we really need to talk about. there's a really interesting debate that's been happening among economists about whether the problems that we're facing in the fiscal market are cyclical or labor. the answer to that question and there's interestingly a progressive version of a structural vision and a conservative vision. those are two different conversations and they end up getting thrown together and tangled up. >> it confuses the situation. >> it does. and there's obviously a lot of

structural things that we need to address. i want to thank my guest, msnbc michael steele, michelle bernard, randi, from the american federation of teachers, and bob. thank you all. thank you for joining us. we will be back next weekend. saturday and sunday at 8:00 eastern time. stay up to date on next week's show. coming up next, melissa harris perry. she's going to lay out her vision for the affirmative case that president obama should be making. she'll also talk about wisconsin is not a bellwether. and -- she's dancing in the background. we'll take a hard look at the epidemic of shooting deaths. mark will join melissa for that. all right. you succeeded in distracting me. that is melissa harris perry.

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