law and government at university of texas, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you for very me. "hardball" is up next. the blues brothers are back. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with the great news, the gang's back together. bill clinton, big bill himself, one and only bubba, was out on the town last night serenading manhattan on the reasons barack obama absolutely needs to get reelected. he hit every note, most of them never heard before, about how the republicans in congress are nuts enough to do what old europe is doing. cutting spending. killing jobs. running austerity and their economies right into the ground. and there they were, side by

side, bill and barack, back together on the same stage, hitting a trio of big apple fund-raisers and making the democratic message sing. we start with that. also with two msnbc an lift. ron reagan is author of my father at a hundred. gentlemen i want you to look at this amazing scene and perhaps the best moment of the night, bill clinton delivering a clear and i believe concise comparison. let's watch them. >> why aren't things roaring along now? because europe is in trouble. and because the republican congress has adopted the european economic policy. who would have thought years and years and years, even decades in which the republican right attacked old europe that they would embrace the economic policies of the eurozone. austerity and unemployment now at all cost.

i mean, after all, their unemployment rate is 11% and ours is 8. we can get right up there if we just adopt their policies. you're laughing, but you need to tell people this. that's what we are being asked to vote for. >> this is like eisenhower joining the campaign in 1860, chris cillizza. there are so many thoughts in that little number we just heard. i want to you analyze them. what was clinton saying there? >> sure. let me say, as broadly as humanly possible first, chris, this is what bill clinton is tremendous at. he is better at this than barack obama. he is better at this than almost anybody, probably either party operating right now. he takes things that are very complex, like the economy, it is not a simple thing, and he breaks it down into these digestible chunks that when you hear it, you think, oh, yeah, that makes some sense. he ties republicans to europe and even if you don't know exactly what is going on there,

you know it's not good economically. he essentially says look, 8% unemployment is not great but if republicans are in charge, it'll good up, not down. he is doing a lot of different things. what he is broadly doing is essentially doing is framing this in a common sense way for people not following every second of this debate, who can say, yeah, this makes sense to me. that's his genius. that's what he has always been good at and continues to be good at it. >> compare that to the jackasses on the right and saying obama is a socialist from europe. he said, no, there is something worse afoot in europe, it is called that effort to squeeze the economy down to the stone practically. you have 11% unemployment in europe with the draconian cuts over there. just what the republicans are promising to do here. they have already blown it out there in europe with. he is nailing the guy on so many front. >> yes. and there is a nice ironic twist to this of course, as chris was saying, it is the republicans who are usually citing europe as you know, this socialist my asthma, that we don't want it go

anywhere near that. and obama is so europeanish in what he doing. i just got back from europe, as a matter of fact. i've been in italy for the last couple of weeks and people are very upset in europe about the way things are going, needless to say. but the irony is, the republicans who disdane europe are adopting policies which do not work. we have seen the economic in europe for weeks now, months now, and it isn't working. it is failing, britain in double dip recession already. that's the delicious irony of this. >> postcard from europe, drop dead. here is clinton in defense of obama. he painted romney's economic plan in bleak terms. let's watch right now from last night. >> list opponent, who said that he's got a better idea was a

governor of the state that was 47th in the country? job growth. he promised that if elected, he would grow the economy and reduce the debt and when he left office the debt of the state was going up. and his plan, his plan, is to go back to the bush program. except on steroids. the romney republican plan is austerity and more unemployment now and blow the lid off later, just at the time when we were worried about high interest rates. what's the difference here? share prosperity, versus continued austerity and high unemployment. a politics of cooperation, versus constant conflict and divide and conquer. >> wow, he says it better. i've been trying to say the same thing chris, which you need job production program and debt reduction program in the long run. he said romney is doing the opposite. no jobs in the short run so they can get elected and nothing done

now or ever about debt reduction. your thoughts? >> first of all, chris, let me say as an observer of politics, how clear is it that bill clinton loves this stuff. he is in his element 100%. if you're good at something, you enjoy it. he and he is good at this. to be frank, i think the obama campaign struggled with, and this is a choice not a referendum. a choice between barack obama has done and will do and what romney has done and will do. they haven't sold that effectively. what clinton is saying, he kept saying, look at romney's plan. look at what he will do. again, stark terms, simple terms, taking something complex, making it simple and saying, this is what the world would look like with barack obama. we know that. here is what the world would like like with mitt romney. which of the two do you want? that has to be the dynamic. because if a s a referendum on economy, barack obama won't do well.

>> my perspective, and let me get yours, ron, i will rattle on, then both you guys. this is classic clinton. he is able to do something here about that birther crap that the president can't do. the president is in away playing defense against a charge against him. when a buddy comes along like clinton, political ally, confederate if you will, he can knock the crazies, jackasses on the far right much more effectively. clinton praised obama for having achieved what he did with the crazy side show of these birthers going on, all the time trying to distract him at a game. here he is talking about florida republican -- i don't think republican, a radical, congressman allen west recent remarks. 78-81. i like the precision. communist, serving as democrat in the united states congress. i don't think there are 81 communist in the country. >> he had to get all this done while people as recently as last week were still saying he wasn't

born in america. he's had to get all this done with a house of representatives that had one of the tea party members claim that 78 to 81 members of the democratic caucus were members of the communist party and neither the presidential nominee nor any of the leaders rebuked him for saying that. this is not the 1950s. at least joe mccarthy could say there was one or two living communists walking around. nobody's seen a communist in over a decade. >> well, it is a great show, ron. a great show in history. >> i don't know that there are 80 communists in communist china any more. i don't know where -- where are communists. >> if i dell is still around, i hate to say, he is still around. and raul. >> he does this great and he also does something that barack obama is also not that good at

and that is telling people all the good things that he's done. you know, 4.3 million jobs raised in the private sector. the job losses are really coming into the public sector because state and local government are play laying off employees as republicans would insist. as europeans might insist. as well. and we have to remember too, that this is really not just about debt and deficit. you know. if you really look at this, what the republicans want is to dismantle the social welfare system that's been in place since the depression. that's what is going on in europe too. on one side the right wants it dismantle all of the protections in healthcare and what have you and of course the democrats here in the united states are trying to hold on to those things even if they have to compromise, they want to preserve the status quo. >> we were just in a country where i never had an unhappy moment, bit way, at least the nicest country in the world to visit. let's get it right and here is more of clinton. i want to talk with you guys in

a minute about his brilliance and doing all these good shots about barack obama and skipping away last week when they were disagree about hedge funds and that stuff. here is cory booker, singing praises, didn't shy away from championing his own success as president and we good on to talk about the case for obama's reelection and we talked about how he learned the stuff he is good at. studying economics two hours a day. let's watch. >> i do spend two hours a day still studying the economic trend around the world and studying what is going on in america. and i care about the long-term debt of the country a lot. remember me? i'm the only guy that gave you four surplus budget out of eight i sent. so i don't think it's important to re-elect the president. i think it is essential to re-elect the president if we want this country to have the kind of future that our children and grandchildren deserve.

>> well, chris, the 23rd amendment doesn't look too good right now, does it? >> well be you -- >> the number of terms after president, he looks like he's been in there since 1992. up until now he looks like he would be pretty good. >> first of all, anyone who covered clinton knows that he would love to serve another term as president. but i think he made an important point. there are definitely things that a high profile surrogate like bill clinton can and should say that president of the united states struggles with, bone just temperamentally, who he is and how he present himself, and also there are things harder when you are sitting in the white house everyday it talk about. i this i that's why clinton is critically important, both for what we are seeing here. talking about big democratic donors in these clips. he's good at that. but maybe even better at going to places, i know chris and you atalked about a lot, scranton, rural ohio. these are places where bill

clinton can really go, be effective and sell that, okay you may not love barack obama but the alternative is worse. and frankly in those places, he probably sells that message better than barack obama. i think he is critically important both to be on board and on message to help barack obama win over some of the on the fence folks in that rust belt industrial mid west. >> if he could make the resident requirements he would be the governor of pennsylvania tomorrow. gentlemen, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> you name the state in fact, ohio as well. tonight's big showdown in wisconsin. even if scott walker wins this thing, if he does, the romney campaign might decide their man can't win the state in november. we will go through the numbers. we have something going here. equal pay for women. republicans vote it down. no surprise there. the president is reminding voters there is more issues than the jobless rate. we know there are. and partisan divide. new survey, saying it is in from republicans marching to the

right. the republican party swept over to the far right and it is all in the numbers. finally let me finish with this growing divide between democrats and republicans can caused by republicans. this is "hardball," place for politics. ♪ progressive saved me money on my car insurance for doing the right thing behind the wheel. what a concept. excuse me, sir, do you know how fast you were going? exactly 25 miles per hour. that makes you a safe driver. keep driving safe. -are you serious? -absolutely. i couldn't help but notice, you applied your brakes smoothly and evenly. you know, progressive rewards safe drivers. think of this as a reward forward. thank you! nice -- you stopped at the stop sign. you qualify for a safe driver discount. wow! keep safe and keep saving.

another major victory on the war in terrorism. abu yahya al libi was killed today. releasing videotapes aimed at rallying al qaeda forces. intelligence forces by wabt analysts say the most serious threat now is from al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, based in yemen. we will be back after this.

welcome back in "hardball." it's recall day in wisconsin and mayor tom barrett is facing off against governor scott walker.

union power, organized labor in the badger state. we have some early exit polls in today's voting already for you. we interviewed 1500 voters in wisconsin earlier today. here are some results. they are evenly split about changes in state law that limit collective bargaining by unions. 50% approve, 48% disapprove. when we asked their opinion overall toward those workers, 52% favorably, then unfavorably, just 43%. we also asked wisconsin voters how they would vote if the presidential election were held today. of those who have voted so far today, 51% say they would vote for barack obama, 45% for mitt romney. we should note here there's another wave of exit polling coming later in the day that tends to be pro labor and pro democrat later in the day. we've known that for 50 years now. here's head of "the ed show," ed schultz, always assuming for the

better part of labor and for the interests of labor and democrats, they always do better after people get home at night after work, after 6:00. how does it look to you? >> i think it looks great, chris. i think the elbow grease ground game that the democrats have been able to put together in this state could lend itself to having a big night tonight. there is still a lot of people in this state that have to vote, and the polls will be open until 8:00. but what we're hearing is just a massive turnout in milwaukee county, and this is a big, big key. what they have done, the democrats have gone to the polls to see who is voting and then they have sent canvassing teams into certain wards of the state to make sure they get out to vote. this isn't mailing, this isn't phone calls, this is elbow grease work on the part of the unions and the workers out there to make sure they get people to the polls. it really is amazing. we've heard all kinds of numbers versus what kind of percentage

in 2008 and 2010. we know this: it's pretty big. >> we have four more hours to vote out there. you make a case. why is it important to you, and i know this is things you care about, you care about collective bargaining, the middle class, and in this case the public sector employees picked on by this governor. whatever they decide, how important is this election? >> well, i think you can track over the years union membership and wages along with the rest of the middle class in this country. a rising tide lifts all boats, as basic as that is. if you deplete union membership, you'll be depressing wages, and i just believe we have to have a strong middle class in this country if we're going to revive this economy. apparently the obama white house feels the same way because they really staked their entire campaign about going after the middle class and making sure they get a fair shake in this economy. i think what walker has tried to do and the republicans have

tried to do here in wisconsin is exactly what they're going to try to do on a national level, and that's deplete the voting block of the democrats through union membership, and we have seen that happen in wisconsin. this is a heavy lift, but it can be won, no doubt about it. >> are you concerned that -- >> philosophically i believe in the middle class. >> by the way, one point you made there is so powerful. it's not just union members who pay dues. every time a union holds up a wage scale, hotel workers and others know about this, other hotels keep up with them. they may not want to be organized, but they make sure their workers get the same salaries. it lifts all boats in that way, that people don't think about. that's a good point. are you worried you've alerted the republican conservatives, the anti-labor people, the people who spend their lives breaking unions by giving them advance warning here that they can now get elected, they can now get energized by november? >> well, they can, but they're doing it with insurmountable amounts of money.

think about this. we have a governor that has $27 million more than his opponent and he's sitting on the ropes here tonight. that ought to tell you about the passion of the people and the power of the middle class and how information is power, and when people take the time to pay attention to the issues, they're going to respond to them. so i think that the union membership obviously is important. i believe in this area of collective bargaining and the mechanism of it because i think fairness in the economy is important. it's not going after the top 2%, it's not going after the wealthy in america, it's making sure workers have a fair shot when it comes to days off, when it comes to vacation, when it comes to health care, when it comes to pension, and we've seen republicans raid all of these things, for what? for the top 1 and 2%. philosophically, it's so wrong. >> you might not want me saying this, ed buddy, and you're doing a fabulous job with this. you're doing better than we're doing. you got great numbers. you could be headed to the afl-cio and be better off for

it. thank you for standing up for the middle class. i know i'm right. or something even bigger, mr. schultz. you're watching our show. by the way, your show is on 8:00 eastern from wisconsin, right there on the spot where the action is. and you're live at 11:00 tonight, ed. by the way, the state and county local employees union out in wisconsin, how does it look, sir? >> it looks wonderful. thanks, chris, for having me on. as you remember, we were together in the early days of this, and today is ground zero here. all over the state, it's electrifying, this turnout. folks are out canvassing all over the state. that said, man, it's just a bunch of elbow grease out there. it's about talking about us getting our values back. the middle class retaining our values, ripping it back from the republicans who took it away from us. i truly think that walker and his regime are kind of worried about what's going on here, especially as they look at the voter turnout issues.

sure, they've been doing voter turnout in some of their districts that they're popular in, but all over the state we're seeing high numbers here, chris. it's really upbeat here. it's really upbeat here in madison, wisconsin. >> you've been on the show before, but let's bring it home to people's kitchen table. when people get squeeze nd their salaries, nobody gets a raise, and meanwhile they're watching wall street and making more money in the percentage of the economy of our history. almost like the old latin-america in the horrible days when united fruit, with 5% of the country owing the money. what's it like in wisconsin where workers don't get raises to keep up with things? >> well, it's not only not getting raises but it's also taking away their expendable salaries. and so for the employees i represent, i represent state employees, you know, and i represent a lot of folks that are earning 11, 12, $13 an hour. so you take away 13, 14, 15% of

their disposable income, they're fighting to make mortgage payments, they have to make decisions about health care for their kids or books and school for their kids, and so people who had always enjoyed that kind of middle class existence now are thrown into a whole new world about economic insecurity, about their kids' futures, and i believe this is all a bigger part of the republican agenda here, is that, you know, i often say, they won't be happy until everyone works for minimum wage and has no benefits, then they're in control of everything. that's kind of what's happening here. as you take away collective bargaining rights, as they deplete the salaries, people are in significant problems here as public employees. that's just wrong. >> marty, you've always been a good spokesman. it's been great having you on. good luck tonight. by the way, we're just looking at some of the scenes. a barrett rally. up next, president obama sings again, kind of. that's next in the side show. this is "hardball," the place

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we are not going back to a set of policies that say you're on your own, and that's essentially the theory of the other side. you know, george romney -- wrong guy. he was a good governor. >> back to "hardball." that was president obama at one of last night's fundraisers. apparently mitt wasn't the only romney on the president's mind. his father was, too. what does team obama have in common with the ron paul crowd? anything? how about the fact that both of their playbooks include linking mitt romney with george bush? check out the billboard gracing

this roadside in las vegas. john ralston of the las vegas sun summed it up. the message is unmistakable. ron paul is like ronald reagan and mitt romney is like george w. bush. the latter is not meant kindly. i swear, folks, the republicans here are better than any act on the strip. it is not even close. as for singing, enter barack's dubs. a youtube sensation. they put together mashups. president obama's speeches with the words of popular songs. this time as a team hit "call me baby." actually, "call me maybe." ♪ this is crazy, so call me baby ♪ ♪ it's hard to do right, have you a, here's my number ♪ ♪ so call me baby ♪ hey i just met you and this is crazy ♪ ♪ here's my number, so call me baby ♪

♪ and here's my number, so call me maybe ♪ >> that's as close to the president serenading for real. finally. roll tape. state representative joe miklosi might have thought he struck gold when a video of coffman with birther talk, went viral. now miklosi is blasting him for his health care speech before he joined congress. >> the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> where was mike coffman during joe wilson's famous outburst?

so i saw joe wilson lean forward and i saw him raise his finger up, and he he goes, you lie! you lie! and i'm thinking, wow, this is going to be a story tomorrow. i saw him this morning and he looked like he didn't get a lick of sleep all night. i put my arm around him and i said, i know something good will come out of this and i think the american people are going to appreciate why did you what you did. >> well, now we know there is a level of character further down, even, from a guy who disrespects the president. it's the ditto head sitting behind him. up next, equal pay for women. democrats push a senate vote they say is all about economic fairness but republicans voted it down. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

>> this is a fight for fairness. this is a fight for equity.

so i ask them to put their lipstick on. square their shoulders, suit up, for this is a new american revolution. so i say to you today, i'm putting my lipstick back on and i am combat ready. >> wow, that's barbara, the congresswoman from maryland. it was stopped from moving forward today in a straight party line vote. democrats voted for it, republicans against. president obama made clear his frustration in a statement that read, it is incredibly disappointing that in this make or break moment for equality, republicans put partisan politics ahead of american women and their families. my administration will continue to fight for a woman's right for equal pay for equal work, as we rebuild our economy so that hard work pays off, responsibility is rewarded and every american gets a fair shot to succeed.

this is such a rich description of the two parties. you don't get such hard party line votes. explain how the democrats voted for equal pay for women and every single republican voted against it. >> we vote for fairness because it's simple, equal pay for equal work. some of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle, very few of them spoke on this because they didn't have a good answer. but those in the galleries are saying, well, women don't -- you know, it's different jobs. it's not. if you look at the 105 categories of women employees and men employees, 105 categories of department of labor employees, in just all but four in the same exact category, lawyer, anesthesiologist, whatever, women get paid considerably less than men and

that's wrong. now, why are republican colleagues opposing this? it's hard to fathom. it's hard to fathom. >> why do you think -- i mean, you work with businesspeople. you're not anti-business. why do you think employers do this so systemically? if you want a first rate anesthesiologist, and you got a woman candidate and a male candidate, why would you mess around with their pay scale so one would be offered less and wouldn't move up at the same speed as the male would? why would they do this? is that a dumb question? i don't know. >> no, it's not a dumb question, it's an important question. i don't think everybody does it, and i don't think everybody does it in every category. there's lots of discrimination going on. there's just a feeling that may be a wrong feeling that men are more capable than women, so they offer higher salaries or whatever. these days things have changed. half the members of medical schools and law schools are women. i heard an anecdote where one medical school said we're going to have a quota for men because

so many of the qualified people are women. so the old stereotypes stand in the way, but those old stereotypes are gone. senator hague, it must mean a more to you emotionally to see where every single rub across the aisle says no way, we're not going to give you equal pay, or at least we're not going to vote for a law that requires it. >> you know, it's 2012. it doesn't make any sense to me. it's been close to 50 years that we first addressed this issue, and yet in north carolina, women are still paid 81 cents for every dollar a man earns. so over the course of a year, it's about $8,000 for an average pay in north carolina. for a family, for a woman, she could spend $110 a week on groceries for about 73 weeks with that $8,000. she could buy another 2,200 gallons of gas with that $8,000.

and think about over the life of her career what a difference it would make, what her social security would be, what her retirement would be and this is a huge impact for women and it is time we address the issue and i'm very disappointed it didn't hit the very magic 60 in the senate today. >> i'll start with senator shimmer on this. men and women shouldn't be separated in terms of political appeals, and he says there is only one issue where the job growth should be come october and november. they consider this a distraction, senator. anything that's not about the jobless rate is a distraction to romney's people.

what do you make of that? senator schumer? >> yeah. >> what i make of it, it's about jobs and it's about the economy. and having people get paid their worth makes a great deal of sense. you know, i thought about your question. i guess their view and romney's view, and he really hasn't taken a position on this proposal fully, and we're asking him, are you for it or against it and he's ducking it, but i guess the position of some, the hard right, i wouldn't say the whole business community at all, is don't put any restrictions on employers for anything. too many of them want to go back to the 1890s. no worker safety laws, no laws saying that you have to have minimum hours or, you know, maximum hours or minimum working conditions, and this is part of the same thing. the employer should do whatever he or she wants, and that's just fine. that is not what the american people believe, that's not what our last 100 years of history has taught us. obviously we believe in the free enterprise system. obviously we want companies to do well. but just total, total, total freedom for an employer to do

anything he or she wants, even if it discriminates, even if it's unfair, even if it's bad for the economy, go right ahead and do it, is what they seem to say. >> i want to get one human life experience here. senator hague, can you talk about -- i imagine some of these jobs don't look the same. a construction company. you've got a woman, for example, sitting in the job shack keeping records, making sure everybody is making their time, keeping their schedule. getting the job done, somebody else working in a forklift. how do you find the salaries kept equal when the jobs don't look the same? how do you do that? >> we're talking about equal pay for equal jobs. i think one of the problems is women are worried about a retaliation against them if they ask a coworker, what do you make versus what i make? so i think that's an issue. but another issue is that right now, what the employer has to pay is back wages. so what this bill does, it actually adds punitive and

compensatory damages for a suit against the employer who actually has discriminated in the wages. and i think that's going to help address this issue of women being able to say, look, i am being paid at a lesser rate. okay senator haguen, thanks for coming on. please come on more often. and senator schumer, you're one of our favorites here. >> thank you, chris. >> wait until you hear the numbers. if you think there is a growing divide between the two parties, left and right, you're right. if you think there is a movement from the left to the right or the right to the left, you're wrong. the movement is not from the left to the further left, it's from the right to the further right. that explains a lot of what's going on, it explains why this fight is getting bitter now. [ male announcer ] if a phone rings at your car insurance company and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound? [ meows ] or if a tree falls on your car and no one's around to answer your call, do you make a sound? the answer is probably "yes" [ growling ] and "like a howler monkey."

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besides that big recall election in wisconsin, there are primary elections in other states tonight, including an interesting match-up between two in new jersey. they are fighting over the democratic nomination in a redrawn district. president obama backs rothman while bill cli in california the first official free-for-all primary where two top finishers in the general election in november. that's going to be wild tonight, and we'll be right back.

we're back. the big story tonight, the american public is more politically polarized now than any other time in the past quarter century. that's a finding from the latest report from the pugh research center which has been tracking the republic's divide since 1987. according to the new study, republicans have moved sharply right on a number of key issues, including the environment and role of government on people who can't care for themselves. a columnist for the "washington post" and a republican chair for the national committee. both msnbc contributors. gentlemen, let's get to the numbers. the attitudes of democrats and republicans on a number of key issues.

look at the safety net issues. in 1977, 25 years ago, when the government asked if they should take care of people who can't take care of themselves, 75% of democrats, 62% of republicans agreed they should do that. 25 years later, the number for democrats is about the same but for republicans the number dropped about 40%. about half of what it was for supporting people who need to be taken care of. on the environment 20 years ago democrats and republicans essentially agreed on stricter laws to protect the environment. both sides were environmental. but now only 47% of republicans say they're for environmental protections bidding tougher. michael steele?

your party. it seems like would you have been more at home 25 years ago. >> that's for sure. >> you would have fit in more as a centrist person who leans to the right than the far right. i'm looking at this numbers. i'm shocked. in other words, leave them out on the highway. >> that's not what it says. >> taking care of themselves is not the same as leaving them on the highway. what changed in 25, 30-year span, you have republicans who have come to a conclusion, and it started in the second term of the bush years, when they saw big government republicanism, especially.

that the healthcare bills, the spending that wasunder are taken for the wars et cetera. that this was run away. run away spending. so you now have this mind-set that says, look, let's cut back on these things. i'm sure we can talk about how we get there. but let's deal with the spending side. >> because w was so ridiculous as to take us into war with iraq, it drove up the cost of government, we have to cut back on poor people programs. that's what you just said. >> no, that's not what i just said. >> the cost of wars. >> among other things, the safety net issues. and look, republicans have been consistent over the years arguing about the spending on the social programs without the benefit of going back and reviewing the program and making sure that those dollars are being -- >> just on a general principle, let me get to the general question. percent of people who believe the government should take care of those who can't take care of themselves. from 62 down to 40%. >> this is asymmetric polarization. the numbers show that they haven't changed on these core economic issues. all of the shift is on the republican side. >> how do you explain it? he said the cost of government and the cost of government has driven -- what do you think has driven it to the right. >> i think people who used to be republicans aren't republican any more. moderates began leaving the party in the '90s. counties where -- >> where did they go? ? >> some became independent, some became democrats. but they're not calling themselves republicans.

>> the ideological, today moderates make up a small part of the republican party. 68%, seven out of ten republicans call themselves actual conservatives. compare that to democrats and i think people who watch the show will be surprise bid this. 38% even. 38% call themselves moderate. 38% call themselves liberal. i say, don't be too puristic when you want to get a democrat elected. it also shows the racial make-up of the party, it th doesn't surprise me. the democratic party has grown more diverse with immigrant and the republicans are overwhelmingly white. that doesn't surprise me much. >> no. michael? >> that's the one area where i do have a great deal of -- >> how many jack kemps or michael steeles are there? >> not a lot. that is something i genuinely have a concern about.

when i look at the demographic shifts in this country, where the new politics is going to take place, it is urban centers, communities -- >> are there people going out into the mixed neighborhoods, neighborhoods in germ be atown, nice neighborhoods, going out t ask people to join their prt party. >> no. that's not part of the -- >> it is not on the job. >> not on the -- it is not part of the main stay of the -- >> ej, what's the explanation for why the democratic party doesn't recognize it is basically split between moderates and liberals? self-described moderates? >> any smart democrat who ever won a democratic nomination understands that. bill clinton understood that. but barack obama understood that. he won moderates. he got elected because he won middle of the road moderates. to me, the whole key, one of the arguments of my book, the whole key is balance. we believe in individualism aeb we believe in community.

both obama and clinton understood. the republicans have thrown compassionism overboard. divided political heart. >> great writer. read them twice a week. thank you. michael steele, quite a man of honesty and gentile, i think. you're watching "hardball," a place for politics. i'm supposed to do. like, keep one of these over your head. well, i wasn't "supposed" to need flood insurance, but i have it. fred over here chose not to have it. ♪ me, i've got a plan. fred he uh... fred what is your plan? do i look like i have a plan? not really. [ female announcer ] only flood insurance covers floods. for a free brochure, call the number on your screen.

let me finish tonight with this. that last segment has powerful news in it, don't you think? the two parties being so wide apart, now we learn it's the republicans. or the cause of the distancing. it's the right moving further right. the democratic side is where it's been. a quarter century, 62% of republicans believe dwosts should look out for people who couldn't take care of themselves. today the figure is down to 40%. today 40% of republicans, just two in five think the government should take care of people who couldn't take care of

themselves. what should we do? leave accident victims laying out there in route 95. that we shove people out of the er, out on the street. we dump people born with handicaps in the dumpsters? what happens to lincoln's believe that government should do for people only what they cannot do for themselves? 47% of republicans say they believe in stricter laws to tro protect the environment. 20 years ago that number was 86%. overall, the party, once the party of right lead -- the democrats have a balanced membership now. 38% moderate, 38% liberal. while the democrats remain as much as they were a quarter century ago republicans lurched