mobster henry hill, who died tuesday from heart complications. introduced to the life of crime about age of 11 and helped pull off the infamous $6 million heist of airport. the crew began to turn on one another and he became an fbi informant. henry hill died at the age of 69. "goodfellas" baz based on the book wise guy. john tower has answers. what do you got is this. >> julie in california writes i'm up because i ate a tin of queen elizabeth jubilee shortbread cookies. >> i would eat those. i will be up eating birthday cake because today is the fifth birthday of lucy geist. happy birthday, lucy. "morning joe" starts right now. it's going to be a special

documentary about george herbert walker bush. here's a small clip of what you're likely to see. take a look. >> devoted husband, decorated veteran, vice president, president. 41. then look at america's most hilarious president, 43. ♪ 43, coming soon. >> welcome to "morning joe." good morning. it's thursday june 14th. with us on set, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc, political analyst john heilemann and the chairman of deutsch inc, donny deutsch and also in washington, d.c., we've got washington's nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent, and host of "andrea mitchell reports" andrea mitchell along with the contributor to "newsweek" and daily beast and

global vice chair of the consulting firm hill and nolan, mark mckinnon. >> the most interesting man in the world. >> he is. >> not today, though. >> dressed rather db he doesn't have an ascot on. >> what's happening? >> there he is. he's bringing it out. always hides it. >> always hides it. all this back and forth going on, john heilemann. i'm so confused. >> back and forth. forth and back. they're going to ohio today. they're going to have dueling speeches in ohio on the economy. you see this "washington post" poll out showing independents don't trust either of them on the economy. look at these numbers. this talks about -- these are president's favorables when it comes to his economic plans. 38% favorable, 50% unfavorable. that is just devastating. how, o how, do you get past that? let's see what mitt romney's is? oh!

35% favorable, 47% unfavorable. john heilemann, it is time for americans to select none of the above. >> yeah. well if you want to know why the campaign is going to be so negative, that's part of the reason. because they both see each other as incredibly vulnerable on the economy and think that it's -- for obama, trying to make a positive case on the economy is very hard, but he sees romney as vulnerable and thinks he can disqualify him in that way. romney sees the whole race as being a referendum on obama and sees the numbers that make obama look vulnerable so you're going to see them, you know, hammer each other incessantly for the next five months. >> yesterday flanked by about 100 top executives of the business round table quarterly, mitt romney told the crowd there that the president hasn't acted in the interest of the free market. >> i happen to believe that if you look at his record over the last 3 1/2 years, you will

conclude, as i have, that it is the most anti-investment, anti-business, anti-jobs series of policies in modern american history. he is not responsible for whatever improvement we might be seeing. instead, he's responsible for the fact that it's taken so long to see this recovery and the recovery so tepid. my own view is that he will speak eloquently, but that words are cheap. and that the record of an individual is the basis upon which you determine whether they should continue to hold on to their job. >> donny deutsch, you wear two hats here, one morning news analyst -- >> pundit. >> pundit. and two where you are disco inferno hat. funny nozzles you drink beer and snort coke out of. >> not anymore. >> that was -- >> early 2000. but no, as -- you're, obviously,

supporter of president obama. but you also, obviously, have a lot of friends who were supporters of president obama that say the same exact thing that mitt romney is saying right now. >> yeah. many. i'm a supporter of obama, but wavering candidly. two weeks ago, changed everything for me when those numbers came out. i had been holding stedfast that he's going to win and i still think there's some silver linings in the dark clouds. out of ten of the independent swing states, five of those are the unemployment numbers are better than the national average. there's a little rosier picture in some of those swing states. i'm searching. >> things like that do matter. >> they do matter. >> the thing that at the end of the day, we can talk all we want and if the economic numbers, if the jobless numbers continue to go south, it's over. that's it. we all know you vote, you keep the guy in office or do you kick him out. the only final point you've talked about this a lot, if i take the quote mitt romney said, you have to look at the guy's record, last four weeks of the election start looking hard at

massachusetts and saying it ain't great now but look what that guy did, you scare people. >> donny says he's wavering, lbj's famous line, if i've lost donny deutsch i've lost middle america. >> also lost a lot of ky jelly that goes along with that. >> oh, my. >> wow. >> oh, my! >> excalation. >> oh, my! >> i have to go to andrea mitchell because she needs to bring this back. >> i quote walter cronkite and you act shocked. you think i made that up. >> 6:05 a.m. >> read brinkley's book for god's sake. >> astro glide. >> no. see then -- >> i think too far. let it lie. john, let it lie. >> sometimes -- >> look through this. >> ask walter cronkite. don't ask me. >> let's push through this. mark mckinnon it's interesting if you look at the polls that people feel about the two economic plans i would be fascinated to know if people responding know what's in the

plans. hopefully today will bring clarity on that. where is the middle on this? i mean, there's the one side, the democratic base, likes president obama. they like, perhaps, blaming president bush and republicans in congress, the other side for mitt romney, lower taxes, help small business. where do the voters in the middle stand? >> the bad news for president obama is obviously that 38% number. but the good news the romney number 35%. people don't know what the plans are. no labels just came out with a poll where we identify problem solver voters, people who choose candidates focused on solving problems than candidates closely aligned with their party. and it's really interesting because 54% of them consider themselves problem solving voters and these could be the voters that actually, they really care about the plans, they want to see what obama's economic plan is. they want to see what rocmney's plan is for the future. they care more about action than party and politics, so this

could be a very important demographic in terms of who swings the election. among these voters, the numbers are 51/49 for romney over obama. 84% of the voters think it's important for problem solver candidate to work with members of the opposing party and 57 -- 67% don't think they should be bound by pledges. this is an important group of voters that i think will pay a lot of attention to the plans that these candidates put out. as we can see by the numbers they don't understand what the plans are and hear what it's about. these problem-solving voters will be important, i think. >> andrea the last time the president underlining this fact, the last time the president's numbers really surged, other than the killing of osama bin laden, was when the president made a deal. i thought it was a terrible deal, to extend the bush tax cuts another two years and extend unemployment benefits, and spend a trillion dollars without paying for it. but, they love the fact that the

republicans and the democrats could agree on something big. and yet, the president's not going to come forward with simpson-bowles. the president's not going to come forward with any other plans that could at least make it look like he was reaching out to the republicans in a big way. >> and make the republicans be the ones that say no. you. >> you know, i asked that question, i interviewed timothy geithner at the council of foreign relations and said, now there are 42 senators in both parties who have signed on to simpson-bowles and there have been a number of meetings, dinner meetings, with senators, with economists, people around this town who have been getting together and talking about coming up with this very kind of grand bargain. i asked geithner why not have the president do this before the election and show the business community, show the world, show the american public that there is the possibility of two parties working together. and he said, interestingly, that he thinks that simpson-bowles is where they're going to end up, but clearly doesn't think that

that's going to happen before the election because there doesn't seem to be any momentum on either side to be specific. willie, you talked about hearing from both candidates, they're both in ohio today, but neither are being specific about economic policies. as you point out we don't know what we're voting for. >> that is, actually, specifics. i think is what the american people want to hear. again, even -- i would just say, politically have the president push simpson-bowles and these other proposals and make the republicans say no, make the republicans look bad. i would say the same thing of a republican president in this position. instead, we're going to be looking at 30-second ads like the one that mitt romney's team is airing right now. let's take a listen and get your response. ♪

>> the private sector is doing fine. the private sector is doing fine. ♪ the private sector is doing fine. doing fine. doing fine. >> i'm mitt romney, and i approve this message. >> look, i mean, that's -- it's -- that's why they call it a gaffe. he's going to get hit with that, as much out of contents as the attacks on romney when he said i don't care about the very poor. the thing that the president -- this is -- the effectiveness of that kind of an ad, the basic brute effectiveness of it is clear, and the president faces this choice that is kind of underlined by some of the stuff that mark mckinnon is talking about, which is that they have been trying for a long time to make the case that the economy is getting a little bit better all the time, too slowly but getting better a little bit,

little bit, little bit. what i think mark's problem-solving voters are the same people that stan greenberg and his group, former pollster, went out to ohio and pennsylvania, democracy corps, talking to focus groups to people in ohio and pennsylvania. they found the most powerful thing they found, people do not believe it, that the economy is getting better. the numbers almost don't matter. people are at this place now where they think the economy is -- that -- a new place structurally. it's just not going to get better soon and to try to sell them on the notion there is progress is a fool. the president has this delicate place to try to find a way to -- can't just throw up his hands and say you're right, the economy sucks. he has to find a way to talk about the new structural realities of the economy and then pivot towards the future, to your point joe, specifics, what he's going to do. that's what these voters want to hear about. they don't want to hear about

the last three years or last 20 years. they want to hear about how can the middle class be revived and if the president can't make that pivot to the future he's in bigger trouble than the unemployment numbers. >> we were talking to warren buffett yesterday. and warren is very, very bullish on america in the future. very bullish. i promise you. over the next 30 years, we're going to kick everybody's tail. we are. we are. but i don't -- it's almost like people in washington don't get that. they don't understand we're going through some problems right now. but that ad, that ad, donny deutsch you're an ad guy, how effective is it? >> very effective. and picking up on john's point, i think you could have, under the obama forward, i think you could finesse the economy is maybe kind of getting there and last month the numbers i think the world changed. you can't paint them any other way. what's effective about that ad when you put it against the other romney ads that the fix it

guy, i'm going to do on day one, i'm the turnaround guy, if you have that two-headed monster, i think the republicans have been very effective with their ads. obama doesn't get it and i'm the turnaround guy. it's a good one-two punch. >> mark mckinnon the argument from the obama campaign, we heard it when we were in chicago on tuesday, was look, we were losing 700,000 jobs a month at one time. i think rahm emanuel said we were losing jobs at the size of the city of charlotte per month and we've slowed that down. as good as it could be, no. good as it should be, probably not. but we're making progress, let's not stop now. is that an argument that sells? >> i think they have to really -- i don't think it really does. i think they have to point to republican policies and how their policies would be different to get to problem-solving voters. let me talk about the private sector doing fine comment. this reminds me of 2004. i remember being in the headquarters of george w. bush when we saw john kerry make his statement, i voted for it before i voted against it.

and a cheer went up in the campaign and we used that line every single day for six or seven months, and that's what we're seeing from the romney campaign. i think there's a real parallel here, because it goes right to the heart of the romney argument and obama made it for him, which is he doesn't understand the private sector and so that's -- i think we're going to hear that over and over again until november. >> andrea, i want to ask you about the spectacle we saw yesterday on the hill in front of the senate banking committee, jamie dimon called to testify about the bad bets made by his company against the debt market that cost them about $3 billion. dimon called the trading an em bafrsment. let's listen to what he said. >> this portfolio more rather than protect the firm created new and potentially larger risks. as a result, we have let a lot of people down and we are very sorry for it. we will not make light of these losses, but they should be put into perspective. we will lose some of our shareholders' money and for that

we feel terrible, no client, customer or taxpayer money was impacted by this event. >> when you reduce a hedge or hedge a hedge, isn't that really gambling some. >> i don't believe so, no. >> so, this transaction that you said morphed, what did it morph into, russian roulette? >> morphed into something i can't justify, too risky for our company. >> he has a photograph. >> i'm sorry -- >> sum's up the day. >> i love jamen dimon, how do you not love jamie dimon. look at that. >> "new york times" loves jamie dimon. he looks like a superhero. >> look at that. >> about to take flight. >> do you know why he gets the pass, because people like him. he doesn't sound like a banker. >> pass from you, donny deutsch. >> no. by the way, if glen fine is sitting in that chair it's a different meeting. jamie dimon comes across and is a likable guy, a guy next door, not an evil banker.

>> we love -- >> i'm talking about the american public. >> we know who holds donny's private wealth accounts. >> i'm just telling it like it is. his brand is a very appealing brand. >> it's not -- brand. i mean i don't -- >> it's not about his brand. >> yes, it is. >> it's also, andrea, he's pretty dam good at what he does. >> he's good at what he does and he sort of confronted it and dealt with it. their stock went up yesterday. he did well by any standards and he was not given a really bad bad time by the committee. he made the most he could out of it. he refused to give proprietary information saying they clearly still have to unwind these positions so he wouldn't say exactly how big the bets were, wouldn't go into the details, and took the hit and said it was his fault with mary thompson on cnbc immediately afterwards he was asked by mary about the fact that he had the best reputation and he said no more or something to that effect. he's very blunt and kind of

admitting his fault in this. geithner again said that they handled it well after the fact, and that they did the best that they could and that the system worked in a strange way because they had enough capital so that they were not risking the entire system by these bad trades. >> that's my point. he's a straight shooter, comes across and also helps when you have a senator or congressman saying you took the tarp money and he said we did that as a favor. we didn't want it. we had to. >> >> can i ask a broad and sin veer question. >> as opposed to the insincere question. >> but i mean it. what was the point of that exercise yesterday? i know what on paper what it's supposed to be, but did we learn anything from that? did we gain anything from that? will the system change? i'm not saying he shouldn't have been called but what was the objective yesterday? >> two words. grand standing. >> that's what i'm saying. >> andrea, what do you think? >> congressional grand standing. >> total politics on the part of the committee.

they wanted to get their oar in and show they were beating up on a big bad banker. >> look at this guy. here's the deal. if your name is alan and you were the boxing champion of the princeton intermural league, do not ask joe frazier to come and spar with you because he's going to kick your -- embarrass you in front of all your friends and send you back like to the corner. jamie dimon, just you know what, don't even try. don't even try to grand stand with jamie dimon he's not going to play your game. he didn't play their game back in 2008/2009 when they were calling him down there. >> no, he didn't. i mean i think the real net effect of this may be that the banking regulations, the volcker rule, the details of dodd/frank, he was opposing he's no longer going to be the tribune for the industry against that, he can't be publicly. the anti-regulatory effect has been, you know -- has been

damaged or the anti-regulatory movement to roll back some of those. it's been three years and we have not yet seen all of the oversight going into effect. they're all dragging their feet on this because i don't think they know what to do. >> yeah. >> he was -- andrea is right. the interesting thing is that, as much as yesterday was a success for him, he is now -- he had been the industry's most effective spokesman for all the reasons he was effective yesterday against the volcker rule and against a weaker version of volcker or for a weaker version of volcker rule, he is side looinds for that. you can't put him in a position where he's going to be the flame thrower, the harsh critic he was of the regulations and that hurts the industry to weaken the volcker rule because they don't have anybody with their star power or effectiveness in making that case. everyone else looks a lot worse than he does. he's now got some mud on his jacket even though he did very well yesterday. >> and when he brought up lloyd blankfine. anybody that spent time with

him, great guy, funny guy, queens, real guy. but jamie, though, he's just brash. lloyd's going to go up there and going to be, you know, a lot more careful, he's going to play it in a box. jamie goes out there punching. >> you remember when blankfine was on the hill when there was goldman investigations two years ago, seen as a debacle. people looked at his performance, just on performance metrics he was like people walked out, boy, lloyd seemed like he was stonewalling, totally opposite reaction of what you saw with jamie dimen. >> 101 for damage control. you come out and go we screwed up, i screwed up, buck stops here. >> that's what jamie is good at doing. couple years ago saying how smart he is. no, no, no. we were just -- what did he say? we were the least stupid of everybody else. >> unbanker like, that's my point. >> no doubt about it. all right. coming up next, we've got arianna huffington, going to be

here on set, former white house budget director peter orszag, the chief of staff of the u.s. army, going to be exciting, and also senate candidate elizabeth warren, she's going to be here and i'm sure mika is probably jetting in on her g5 from the south of france right now, i guarantee you she will be here when her hero elizabeth warren -- >> scuffing up the softballs as we speak. >> she is. she's got scuffing up the softballs to make sure. she may be painting them orange, just so she can see each one of them coming in slow motion. but coming up next, we've got mike alan, he's here with the top stories from politico playbook. but first here's bill karins with a check of the forecast. bill? my iphone it lies to me. >> yes. >> impunity. in fact, i think it enjoys lying to me when it comes to weather. but right now, i'm looking at all sun through the weekend.

does the northeast -- here we go. oh. can't show that picture. but we have -- we have all -- >> we're good. >> all clear, right? >> good to go. many areas of the east coast, finally it's not raining this morning in new england. just a few clouds. this is going to start up a stretch of really beautiful weather, great last week of spring is going to take place through much of the eastern half of the country. you notice the clouds and the storms from yesterday, clearing out and today, this is great. low humidity, temperatures in the 70s. this is as comfortable as it gets and you can save the ac bill today. near 80 in albany, d.c. same for you. only travel trouble spots, few thunderstorms between dallas and shreveport, pretty isolated, up towards minneapolis a fou storms just outside of town. my only weather concern late today, few tornadoes possible with strong thunderstorms between omaha and minneapolis and duluth. we'll keep an eye on that. we'll been in a tornado drought,

end of may, beginning of june is a historically active period. we've been lucky and hopefully it continues today. watch out around minneapolis, stray storm around denver, as quiet as it gets for the middle of june. unbelievably gorgeous. the heat and humidity will return to washington, d.c., but not today. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i went to a small high school. the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach.

he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number. he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us.

it's time to play, will mitt romney say doughnut? ♪ >> will mitt romney say doughnut? >> thank you very much. >> you have an open invitation. >> thank you. garret would you see one of those chocolate -- what type of goodies finds its way to our

ride? will mitt romney say doughnut is a very enright and friendly pro duckion. >> doughnut. >> chocolate goodedy. >> round thing with a hole in the middle is a doughnut. >> if you're so interested in playing sport, you got to -- >> in fairness. >> figure so you don't know what they're called. >> right. >> could have been an eau claire too. >> maybe trying to identify the again ra genagain again ray. >> croissants. >> gray pew upon. >> are you mocking people with elevators in their homes? >> elevators for cars in their homes. >> yeah. >> so -- >> touche. >> i guess we're for enough beyond it, did everybody see the "mad man" finale. >> yeah. >> what did you think? >> i thought it was strong. not the strongest episode of the year. i thought the season got better. the first part was slow, a lot

said that. second half of the season gained strength. couple episodes before the finale were killer, just killer. the lane suicide and the feminism episode, those two previous ones were incredible. the finale was strong, but not as good as those previous. >> the episode the feminism where all three, his wife, christina hendriks, give a special shout out to, and peggy, all -- >> what does that mean. >> just kind of rising, was brilliant. >> i think we were talking about this, the last seen, was classic "mad man." are you alone? looks at the camera. go to black. we know where we're going next. >> very strong. >> and they only look twice. >> the second the music came in, back to my dad watching, you know, all the james bond movies and you're back in the mid-'60s. >> instantly trending on twitter as soon as they played it. shot to the top of the global trends. >> oh, gosh. that's amazing.

>> follow that kind of stuff? >> i do. >> check on that. >> i thought you'll appreciate this, i thought the moment of the season was -- >> the revolver thing. >> revolver, where she takes out -- don's wife takes out revolver, the second i saw it, i'm thinking this is the album that split the '60s down the middle. >> and split the beatles' career. the moment when the turn came. you could argue about possibly being the best of all the beatles albums, but a huge moment in the '60s that moment when lsd suddenly creeps in, psychedelic creeps in. >> start the album with "tax man" and these cute songs but end it with "tomorrow never knows" and that's the song she tells don to play. it's, of course, the segway to their next album "sergeant pepper" and that's when the '60s are were split in half and don looks at it, takes it off. he's a sinatra guy. >> right. >> he's a product of world war

ii. >> people forget -- >> thought that was a remarkable moment in television. >> great moment in tv and also just a real moment in the culture because people think 1967 as the summer of love and "sergeant peppers" but the summer of '66 is when it started happening in san francisco and when lsd started too take hold. >> the beach boys, pet sounds, the whole things. >> stones, all of them. >> from that point, a lot of talk that "mad men" was it the last season? such rich territory for the next couple years as far as where that turn happens, that i think there really -- not obligated but it would be a tremendous missed opportunity. >> the rich territory is chaos. i mean chaos from '67 to too '69, '70, absolute chaos. i think you're going to see a lot of lives fall apart. you have to say while we're talking tv, a lot of people were a little bored by the first episode, but veep, truly, was

unbelievable. >> if you hung in you were rewarded. first couple slow, but if you watched every episode, got better and finished strong. go back on demand on hbo. she is great. she is great. >> she is. i'm telling you, i -- when i look at her now, i'm not -- i swear to god, i'm not thinking "seinfeld" anymore, i'm thinking this role. she has done really the impossible and she's moved beyond that. this is -- >> she played the deep insecurities of the vice president laid bear on the show. >> i vote for "magic city" on starz. >> always trying to be different. >> mike alan, thanks for being with us today. have a great afternoon. talk to you later. he is here. good to see you, how are you? >> fantastic. i'm just sitting here and craving a petit four. >> what's that? >> the little doughnut holes, french doughnut holes. >> we call those munchkins where

i live at the dunkin' doughnuts. to your lead story, second-guessing obama. something donny was talking about in our first segment. john mentioned stan green burg's polls. what are we looking at here? >> this is friendly fire from democrats around d.c. who are getting increasingly vocal about how they disagree with the obama strategy. and this is quiet rumbling for a while, but now you get a series of stubbed toes as john harris and alex burns put it in this piece and bad polls and all of a sudden the quiet critics get very loud. everybody feels like they have the opportunity to pile on. so the key points that the critics are making are that the president should not be continuing to insist the economy is getting better. i think in cleveland today, we're going to see a pivot on this. the president is going to talk more about what he's going to call the stark choice, people have on the economy, and appealing to voters who feel like he did nothing to break up

the gridlock in washington. he's going to say that voters in january voters in november will have a chance to break the deadlock, break the tie. >> mike, real quick before we let you go, our friend mark hall person h -- halperin has a piece on time d .com how they revel in ignoring what people like this are saying. are they listening, hearing this message, do they care what's being said outside their circle? >> they're listening, they care, they won't acknowledge it. the strength of the obama team, this goes back to '08 when they were the underdogs, say it's never as bad as it looks or good as it looks. right now they better hope that's the case. >> mike allen, with a look outside the playbook. a petifor. >> munchkins. mike allen see you. >> coming up in sports, san francisco's matt cain gives the giant's the first perfect game in franchise history with a

little help from that man and his glove. and will the new york mets robbed of a no-hitter last night? should have been a no-hitter. we'll show you when we come back. [ male announcer ] knowing your customers is important to any successful business. which is why at wells fargo, we work with you to get to know the unique aspects of your business. we can recommend financial solutions that can work for you that have helped millions of business owners save time,

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john heilemann, you went to

a lot of san francisco giants games back in the day. you know what you never saw? >> a game when he wasn't on acid? >> there's that. >> like doc ellis. >> the anniversary was a couple days ago. >> i celebrated it. >> this a video of that, by the way? >> doc ellis. >> sure. >> pitched a no-hitter on lsd. >> famously said he thought the umpire was richard nixon. >> that's how -- >> calling balls and strikes. >> best way to get to a no-hitter. >> perfect game last night in san francisco. >> no way. >> let's get to it. matt cain, underrated, if you played on the east coast you would be talking about him like sabathia or verlander. to the highlights in san francisco, we start with this because we had to show you, a fan in mccovey cove using his jet pack, why not, during the first inning of the game. bottom of the first, giants get on the board. they get cain pad, two-run homer for melky cabrera. giants put ten runs on the

board. all matt cain, perfect through five. j.d. martinez down looking. this is the play of the game, though, in the sixth inning, chris snyder drives one deep to left, this is one of the plays of the game i should say. melky cabrera tracks it down. this is the play of the game in the seventh, still perfect, full count. >> oh! >> what a catch! >> good job. >> gregor blanco with a long run, makes a beautiful diving catch. saves the perfect game. look at cain. he hugged him in the dugout. to the eighth cain with another full count, is he going to walk him? gives him the inside corner rings him up. his wife looking on. 14th strikeout of the night for cain. perfect game still intact. jason castro, turn it over to the giants announcer. >> one ball and two strikes. on the ground, from deep third! got him!

and that's a perfect game! and the giants mobbing matt cain on the pitcher's mound. >> dwyane keeper with the call. matt cain with the perfect game. the first in franchise history. 125 pitches striking out a career high 14 batters, the most strikeouts of any perfect game ever. the second perfect game of the season in the big leagues. the white sox did it in april. cain's wife rushing from the stands, rushed to the field and found her husband in the dugout in the postgame press conference with his arm wrapped in ice, cain talked about the perfect game. >> there's really nothing like it. you know, i mean you get deep into the game like that and then that was the, you know, kind of defining play as he makes that play in the beginning of the seventh inning and then i've still got to get more outs and the place was going crazy. i was having to re-check myself to see the signs that bus was putting down because it was so much adrenaline, so much stuff

going on. you know, i was in a way, probably overthrowing some change-ups. i could look up there and i was throwing them harder than i wanted to. it worked out. >> matt cain, perfect game last night. >> again -- >> like doc ellis who said they thought were the devils going into the ground. >> no-hitter in new york. >> he said another problem, though, doc ellis, when the catch wear throw the ball back to him, he saw a streak of lightning and fire off the back and tried to get out of the way. anyway, just two weeks after johan santana tossed the first no-hitter in mets history, they should have had another one with r.a. dickey on the mound. first inning, giants -- the rays b.j. upton bounces one to third. david wright tries to bare hand it. can't make the play. scored a hit. >> come on. >> not an error. >> that's an error. it's in the first inning. >> use your glove. what do you mean? use your glove. >> it turned out that was the only hit of the game by the rays. the mets win 9-1.

dickey did have a career night, giving up one hit, struck out 12, complete game. mets manager terry collins says the team will ask the commissioner's office to overturn that decision. >> overturn it. >> can they do that? >> they can. it's unlikely. >> will they do it? >> it's a backhanded no-hitter. >> i'll take it backhanded. >> scoreless inning streak going. >> he has the 10-1. he might be the all star starter. >> how about the mets. >> how about the red sox. the red sox are in last place. >> why? >> we're having a nice time. celebrating success and you're -- >> boston fans out there and i like to give the information. >> you are a classic. >> he's a punk. >> and the yankees are in first place. sometimes i get that confused. >> wow. this is why people hate yankee fans. >> thank you. >> and donny -- >> willie, where will we be in a month? >> tied for first. >> probably reversed, you know. >> our next guest asks, what would happen if you combined the wisdom of steve jobs, steven spielberg and donny deutsch and poured it into one campaign

manager's head? josh green explains when we come back. [ male announcer ] this is genco services -- mcallen, texas.

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great businesses deserve the most rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? why do you think wall street is putting its money in mitt romney's camp by $37 million plus to $4 million so far reported, and that 21 big contributors to president obama's election campaign in '08 have now switched sides is. >> i kajcan't speculate on the motives but it's because they believe they are more likely to get a more favorable hearing in terms of relaxing these reforms if the republicans have a stronger hand in washington. i think it's straightforward. >> that was andrea mitchell's

conversation yesterday with treasury secretary timothy geithner in washington at the council on foreign relations. you talked a little bit about it at the top of the show. what were some of your other big takeaways with the conversation with the secretary? >> the fact is, there are five jobs reports that are going to come between now and election day. one only days before november 6th election day. and there is no prospect that they're going to have real improvement. they don't really have an answer, other than that, you know, they inherited this mess to the whole question of that fed data, the report that goes through 2010, and the fact that middle-income people, middle class people, have lost so much, 39, 40% of their wealth. this is the greatest generational loss in wealth, you know, in decades and they don't really have a response, other than the fact that they inherited this terrible recession. so they've got a very hard road. he seems to be, at least

claiming to be, optimistic going into the meetings in mexico the g-20 next week about europe getting its act together but they're facing eat lex in greece on sunday -- the election in greece on sunday and very nervous markets right now about what's happening in europe. >> that swings nicely into our next segment about how the president and his team respond to the jobless and numbers every week. with us senior national correspondent from bloomberg business week, josh green, his cover story, "selling obama" inside the mind of obama's campaign manager. november will be a contest between two different visions of government but also between competing ideas about how to reach voters. romney's campaign will take a traditional approach, heavy on television advertisings and backed by massive war chest. obama's will rely on organizations, sailing up to a national level the type of grass roots efforts messina once ran for baucus in montana. the campaign is about how to run a large complex enterprise.

messina is wagering the obama's second term on the collective wisdom that titans can outsmart romney whose executive savvy has not just made him rich but brought him to the cusp of the presidency. good to see you. jim messina has a president to sell, the name of the piece. you say what would happen if you take the wisdom of steve jobs, eric schmidt, steven spielberg and anna winter and poured it into one campaign manager's head. tell us about this guy? >> messina is an interesting guy. he spent most of his career as a kind of behind-the-scenes political fixer. he doesn't have celebrity status that a david axelrod or a david plouffe has accrued but he's in charge of running the campaign. he has a theory that the old image of the campaign manager as a kind of a guy with a cigar and pile of money and map in a back room is outdated and a modern presidential campaign is more like running a fast-growing tech company, facebook or a groupon, and so when he got the job, he

went out and interviewed and sort of got advice from a lot of the big celebrity ceos you mentioned, steve jobs helped him think through mobile strategy before he died, steven spielberg at dreamworks helped teach him how you capture and hold an aud yen's attention, eric schmidt of google has emerged as an executive coach, and he's reached out to more untraditional people like anna winter at "vogue" who helped convince him obama should design a celebrity fashion line to bring in more revenue for the campaign. >> that would be a great idea. how to lose an election. >> mark -- >> not everybody is sold on that last concept. >> i wouldn't think so. mark mick kinnen has been inside these campaigns. what is the important role of the guy at the top, the campaign manager? >> it's huge. josh, let me ask you, the obama campaign had the wind at its back last time and now the wind in their face. and they have some message

problems. the question is, can the data and the slicing and dicing of demographics that they're doing on obama hq overseen by messina can that make up for a message deficit in the end? >> i think -- you would know better than me, but i have to think no. i think all the effort that messina has gone through, the message, dana analytics, the huge tech behemoth they built and are building, can help on the margins if it's a close race, comes down to kind of a point here, point there, they're really focused on seven swing states in particular, so in a narrow race, this really could make a difference. but it's not something that's going to change the overall dynamics of the race if, you know, the euro collapses or if, you know, the unemployment rate suddenly skyrockets. that's really the kind of the fundamental problem the obama folks face as far as i can see. >> josh, donny deutsch. how would messina react to this? in the advertising business, obviously been this huge, you

know, move to social media, digital, to everything nontraditional. but what's happening with a lot of corporate clients is at the end of the day they're going, you know what, if i need and want the eyeballs, tried and true television, a lot of the money is swinging back and the other stuff is exciting and fun and talked about and written about, but that the traditional method is still the way to move a brand. >> well, it's interesting. i think that jim messina would disagree with that. if you want to see a more traditional campaign, all you have to do is look at the other guy, mitt romney, be who's running you know much more straightforward, heavy on television advertisement, that sort of thing. the tech -- the obama folks believe and i think this is kind of embedded in their ethose, it was four years ago, it is now that social media is the way to reach, to interact, to motivate, to raise money, to get in touch, and fundamentally persuade the people that they think have to

turn out for them and will be the difference in the election for them. >> josh green, it's a really good read. his article is in the new issue of "bloomberg business week" called "jim messina has a president to sell". >> where's kenny loggins in all this by the way? >> what are you talking about. >> loggens and messina. >> how did you miss that? >> i didn't miss it. i didn't miss it. i just -- >> we'll edit that out. >> i can't imagine he would come up with something that lame. >> we'll take that out in post. this lineup we have coming up, arianna huffington, peter orszag and general ray odierno. it's time to live wider awake. only the beautyrest recharge sleep system combines the comfort of aircool memory foam layered on top of beautyrest pocketed coils

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andrea mitchell, we can't let you go before asking who you're going to have on at 1:00 this afternoon. >> willie geist, thank you. i'll be in philadelphia. we'll have ed rendell and sister simone, the nun leading the challenge against the vatican over whether or not the nuns in america are feminists. radical feminists. >> another good -- >> i'm all in. >> andrea mitchell reports 1:00 eastern time on msnbc. thanks. up next, arianna huffington and peter orszag. keep it on "morning joe." uncover stronger, younger looking skin. [ female announcer ] new aveeno skin strengthening body cream helps transform dry, thinning skin,

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what if jpmorgan have gone down without the massive federal intervention both directly and indirectly in 2008 or 2009? >> i think you were misinformed. i think that misinformation is leading to a lot of problems we're having today. jpmorgan took tarp because we were asked to by the secretary of the treasury of the united states of america. we did not at that point need t.a.r.p. we were asked to because we were told incorrectly so if the nine banks there, some may have needed it, take this t.a.r.p. and get it to the other banks and stop the system from going down. we did not borrow from the

federal reserve except when they asked us to, they said please use these facilities, it makes it easier. >> we would all like to be asked. >> we were not bailed out by aig. we would have a direct loss or $2 billion if aig went down and we would have been okay. >> you have a difference of opinion with many analysts in the situation who felt aig bailout did benefit you. i'm not going into that argument with now, sir. this is not your hearing. i'm asking you to respond to questions and i also only have five minutes. so, let's agree to disagree. >> yeah. jamie doesn't agree to disagree, does he? welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann with us, mark mckinnon in washington, the founder of "the huffington post" and president and editor in chief of the huffington group, arianna huffington. this morning the launch of the ipad magazine called "huffington" and also former

director of the officer of management and director and vice chairmen at citigroup, adjunct senior fellow at the council of foreign relations peter orszag. john heilemann, bad -- be very bad staff for that congressman who asked jamie dimon why he took the t.a.r.p. money when, i think everybody outside of that room knew that they had to like drag jamie by his beautiful, beautiful golden hair, into the room and force him to take the money, so not to embarrass the really weak banks. >> are a simple country lawyer. you never ask a question you don't know the answer to. it's worse to ask the question you have the wrong answer to. you know things are going badly for you when you're a member of congress and you are in the middle of the exchange, you see your hands shaking in front of the camera because you realize the witness is running circles

around you on the facts. >> mark mckinnon, jamie didn't even -- i mean heck, anybody that watched "too big to fail" you don't have to read "the new york times" watch hbo and you know jamie dimon didn't want to take the money. >> yeah. that's right. i mean, he went in there, had his facts lined up and the congressman was ill prepared and it's one of the reasons that dimon is well respected because he's got it wrapped pretty well and he's candid and refreshing and straightforward. >> yeah. i want to go, peter, i want to ask you and arianna about the sad situation of the economy right now, but first of all, let's talk we're in an election year, arianna, looks like both sides are choosing none of the above. "the washington post" asked a poll question of who -- how did each one of the candidates fare with the american people when it came to their economic plans. let's show president obama, where he's sitting, people asked

whether they agreed with the president's position. 38% are favorable. 54% unfavorable. these are of independents. obviously just absolutely terrible, the depressing numbers. what in the world will this president do? he is doomed.s show mitt romney. and show just how -- oh, wait a second. his numbers are just as bad or worse. arianna, the american people don't trust these two candidates to fix the economy. >> they don't, because basically obama's argument is that we're between a rock and a hard place and i'm a slightly nicer rock and give me another four years to fix the problems that bush created, which no longer works as an argument. and romney has not come up with any innovative, bold ideas to fix the economy. right now, he's kind of wavering on austerity saying we can't cut so much because it's going to impact the economy so he's

sounding a little more. but to go back to jamie dimon a minute, that's connected, yes, he's bril dwrants and can answer any question, but the bottom line that the fact that banks are allowed to take casino bets and the taxpayers are still on the hook if the bets go wrong, has not been solved. so that's one of the other irony with obama. he's getting tremendous flack from wall street, but he hasn't really dealt with it too big to fail problem which is essential in any mature, responsible capital system. >> and peter, you're with citigroup now, is too big to fail gotten even bigger? >> look, i think what we have to do in the banking system is have a lot more capital, which is happening, and then what happened at jpmorgan which jamie admits is just the simple management failure and you need to, you know, partly just execution. i want to come back, though, to the broader issue. governments are very unpopular

following financial crises, just period. because you wind up with this ugly combination of very slow growth and a very weak labor market and this massive increase in debt, both of which the population doesn't like and that's true in europe, it's true here if you look historically when you're hit with the financial crisis, the government suffers or the popularity of the government suffers. i mean that's not to say we shouldn't sit here passively but we should recognize it's not pleasant to live through the aftermath of a financial crisis. which is why we want to prevent them. >> when you wrote a piece in bloomberg in february admitted this is the time to actually stimulate the economy. that going against growth, which is what we've been doing, doesn't really help the deficit. it's just not even really a smart deficit reduction policy. >> i think what we should do, i keep banging my head against the wall, the right policy is more stimulus, but a lot more deficit reduction enacted now that takes effect over time. that combo policy is the right

approach across the globe and frankly no country is doing it and it's what we should be doing here. >> peter, i wonder, in the -- that -- i actually a lot of people agree with that in principle. >> we have to do it. >> this is the difference between politics and policy. the biggest thing that the obama administration fears and the country should be afraid of is a meltdown in the euro zone over the course of the next few months. is there anything the united states can actively do to make that prospect less likely or are we effectively at the mercy of germany and the rest of the players in the eurozone? >> we can do a little bit of what you've been seeing more which is just not the private diplomacy but frankly the public urging, but that's like second, third tier. fundamentally it's up to europe. i am quite worried that basically the problem will get away from people, that, you know, you'll have a 1:00 a.m. solution but the problem will have gotten away from you at midnight and if you have to go back to the national parlments

and put in a new structure while markets are moving fast the probability of miscalculation is extremely high. >> also, you already saw how the problem has gotten away with the policymakers when it comes to greece, you know. they were planning one solution, basically the greek people revolted, we're going to have a new election on sunday, and i think one of the dangers that we are underestimating is the danger of the rights of extreme parties in europe. you see the rise of a right wing party in greece, you see the rise of extremist in france, and that's something which you cannot forget knowing what we know about european history. >> no doubt about it. and mark mckinnon, let's bring you in here. i want to follow up on the conversation that peter talked about. it's something we discuss all the time. and the extremes on both sides don't like it and both parties, but you can come up with a plan that takes care of long-term debt. that saves social security over a generation.

it saves medicare, that saves medicare over a generation. >> yeah. >> you're getting to the question i wanted to ask peter, which is -- we talk about simpson-bowles a lot on this show and i wanted to ask, where would we be be, had the president adopted simpson-bowles and where could we be and is there an adoption of a simpson-bowles plan likely in the future? >> i think we need a long-term deficit reduction package that's combined with a lot more stimulus up front. for example, not simpson-bowles but demin chi rivlin, reported at the same time, had $650 billion in stimulus in one year. that was combined without your deficit reduction. now on simpson-bowles, specifically, the core problem is there while it may have plausibly passed the senate, it had no chance in the house which actually has now been demonstrated. >> peter, let me -- >> we need -- >> let me stop you one second. >> hold on. we need a long-term deficit reduction package, but a long-term deficit reduction package that has zero revenue,

that's very challenging. >> so you talk about $650 billion spent in short-term stimulus spending. a lot of people out there would say that's reckless, irresponsible. it could never happen. but, explain how if that stimulus spending is coupled with a long-term debt plan, to take down the debt over a generation, how the markets not only would free up those $650 billion, but they couldn't write the check quickly enough for it? >> exactly. >> they would rejoice. >> the austerity folks are getting it wrong in the sense that they're imposing immediate deficit reduction and that's disastrous for economic growth. the pure stimulus folks, i think, are wrong because it's not going to happen. and because it would be better to do the combo policy together. >> and they don't want to talk about the long-term debt either. >> right. but you should not -- look, we should not worry, lose even a second of sleep over $650 billion in stimulus this year if

it's combined with a long-term deficit plan. in fact, that is vastly preferable. then the question becomes how do you do the long-term deficit reduction? a way that's credible and will stick? >> this goes back to the elemental thing we were talking about before, politics versus public policy. there are no, as far as i know, republican votes for more stimulus in any context and no republican votes for long-term deficit reduction that includes more revenue at this moment. maybe in january of 2013 there might be republican votes for that. you're starting to hear republicans say that's possible. in 2012, there are no republican votes for either element of that which were key to both simpson-bowles and deven chi rivlin. >> they did have republicans sign on to the up front stimulus but they were no sitting members of congress. >> why don't we have more of a sense of urgency or the crisis when it comes to jobs, which might have actually created the conditions that would have led to the kind of $650 billion?

>> this is the other thing i think is important about the combo approach, you don't have to keep pivoting back and forth, jobs austerity. you're doing both. it follows from a financial crisis. you have these duel problems and you've got to address both of them and then if you keep emphasizing both parties of that bar -- parts of that barbell you don't have to flip back and forth and confuse people. we're stuck because of the polarization and the other reason is we keep kind of flipping back and forth on what the problem is and the answer is there are two problems. >> arianna, i want to show the cover of your new magazine that's coming out, it's going to be weekly and come out. you can get it on the ipad. but what is compelling, of course, is your first cover. looks like hope, one of those hope posters with the president's face ripped off of it, why? >> it's a great piece by peter goodman on the fact that the youth vote, the youth

enthusiasm, towards obama is not there at the moment. and that's a big concern for the obama campaign. you know, the young people went away -- >> why not? why aren't they there? >> because basically what he promised was to go to washington and do things differently and achieve different results. remember, the great line in the denver speech, you know, basically saying that continue to do the same thing in the same way, bringing in the same players, is a definition of insanity. his version of that. >> did he do that? >> he did that. he brought in the same players, they did the same things. he bought into the whole austerity package, including the rhetoric, he attacked wall street. >> exception, of course, is peter. peter was the bright shining star. >> peter at the time was a upon austerity -- >> no, no, no. that's not -- >> here we go. >> it's amazing how -- look. i have always been in favor of this combo policy and the people who think that if you're in favor of long-term deficit reduction, therefore, you're in

favorite of immediate austerity are wrong. i would go further than that. the combo policy is the only thing that has any hope after the first stimulus package of getting an extra additional stimulus in place. >> right. but the combo policy, i mean, has that key element of stimulus now. which was being rejected by many people in the white house, including larry summers, who after he left the white house, started again writing pro growth op-eds. the point is that the president in the end made the decisions, and he made decisions which have meant for young people to go back to the cover of the magazine, that they're new graduating burdened with debt, unprecedented debt, for young people graduating from college. that debt has reached over a trillion dollars. and yet, cannot get jobs in many cases. >> mark mckinnon, the reason why you have both parties pushing back against this combo approach, republicans don't want to support it because it has stimulus spending. democrats don't want to buy into

it, because why that will mean they'll have to make tough decisions over the next 30 years on medicare, on medicaid, on social security, and on other programs that they don't want to touch. and so, i think most reasonable people understand, what we have to do right now, not only to get out of this crisis economically, but also survive the next 20, 30 years, and neither side, neither party, is equipped ideologically, to move forward in this one direction that makes sense. >> that's right, joe. it's obvious to voters. it's in that poll we showed earlier, the problem-solving voters, 54% recognize that identify themselves as problem-solving vote es and want the parties to recognize that there's got to be a dual approach and it's common sense, everybody knows what we have to do. i think that either of the candidates would be rewarded for telling the truth, for being candid, for making clear the program sort of as peter is describing, which is that we've got to have a combination policy

to get through the crisis. and everybody's playing politics but i think that the poll that we just showed, problem-solving voters will reward the candidate that will tell the truth and step up. >> to my fellow democrats, just say, i think the lack of more specificity on the long-term deficit plans is hugely harmful, because paul ryan is using the deficits in medicare and social security and medicaid to put forward truly radical and i think very damaging changes, but because there's no credible alternative that's specific, he's getting away with we need to destroy the village in order to save it. i think there is -- there's more specificity that's needed to take on that alternative in a credible way. >> all right. peter, thank you for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> good to be here. >> mark mckinnon, thank you so much as well. arianna, stay with us. coming up next, we've got the army's chief of staff, general ray odierno, he's going to join the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] this is corporate caterers, miami, florida.

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it is clear that sequestration would risk hollowing out our force and reducing its military options available to the nation. we would go from being unquestionably powerful everywhere to being less visible globally, and presenting less of an overmatch to our adversaries. >> it was designed as a meat a, designed to be a disaster. because that -- the hope was it's such a disaster congress would respond and do what was right and so i'm just here to tell you, yes, it would be a disaster. >> that was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mark dempsey and leon panetta making their case yesterday against across-the-board defense cuts. the automatic reductions do go into effect next january, the pentagon is going to have to cut

spending by $500 billion over the next ten years. what would that mean for our soldiers both here and abroad? with us now the u.s. army chief of staff, general ray odierno. he's here to honor the 237th birthday of the u.s. army and, of course, general, we always celebrate the birthdays of our men and women in uniform. i want to show -- i want to show this. ad in the "usa today." these are tough times to be a man or a woman in the army. it's a tough time to be a family member of a man or woman in the army. the united states army over the past ten years, has been asked to do more with less than ever before. how much of a readiness problem is that for us? >> frankly, i will tell you, that for the last ten years, one of the reasons we said thank you

for the american people, is that we have been given the resources for us to execute the two wars we were asked to execute. and the american public has given us quite a bit and believed in us, so it's important for us to thank them for doing that. as you saw there, as we look ahead, there is concern about future cuts. now i would remind everybody that we've already taken $489 billion of cuts over ten years. we've agreed to do that. we're in the process of executing that. which we agreed to in the next budget cycle which we've now proposed and submitted to congress. so that $500 billion would be on top of the $489 billion that we've already taken. so that's the concern. you know, the first $489 billion was tough, we think we an do that, we think it's necessary, the second 500 becomes difficult. >> let's talk about as we look at the men and women in uniform, especially in the army, the army and marines have taken the brunt of this over the past decade, what impact does it have, one

deployment after another, after another, after another, after another? >> yeah. >> five, six, seven deployments. you know. >> right. >> you learned growing up. you can't do that and keep your men and women in the type of shape they need to be in the field to achieve the objectives. >> yeah. first time we've had such an extended combat operations for an all-volunteer army, where those who volunteered, did multiple deployments. i tell somebody when you meet somebody in the army look at their right sleeve, each means six months of combat. you understand how many times people have deployed over time. and so it's important for us as a nation in my mind, don't forget that. we have asked a lot of these young men and women. >> and the human toll devastating, even under the best of circumstances not just in the war zone but when they come home. >> right. >> the human toll is terrible.

when does this come to an end? we don't do occupy passions well as a country -- occupations well as a country, do we? >> 4400 in the army, 32,000 injured, we will continue to see those who have post-traumatic stress as a come back, they'll have to deal with that. it's important we don't forget that, that as a nation we owe it to them to make sure we're able to continue to take care of them because what we have asked them to do, for us i will say, you know, we have an incredible young men and women who have lived up to the sacrifice and have performed su personally in difficult -- superbly and continue today. i'm proud of that. i'm proud of their families who have supported them through this and we can't forget that as well. >> i wanted ded to ask you to me an example or two, we, of course, every day for the past decade, we've seen the bad news in these highly politicized

wars. but you read something by dexter fillkins, former "new york times" war correspondent, talking about the tremendous sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. tell a story to america that they need to know about the type of sacrifice that one of your soldiers -- >> well, i mean, you have individuals who have deployed -- i know families who i won't mention names, who have deployed two or three times and on the third time, you know, soldier either is severely injured or killed in action. and the impact on the family is quite significant. not only the biological family but it's the army family. we look at this as a family ourselves. it's how we deal with that. so it's important for us that we recognize that, and one of the reasons we put that in the paper today, is it's important for the

military to stay connected to the american people. we are -- we support the constitution. we support the people of the united states in what we do and we have to maintain that connection. i worry about that, you know, i've heard you talk about that before, 1% of the american population serves in the military today. we can't allow that to hinder the relationship -- >> it's a huge disconnect in what your guys do and the rest of america understands. >> we have to work together to change that. >> but general, isn't one of the problems that while everybody in this country supports you, the men and women in uniform, and millions are questioning the rationale for landing in afghanistan. >> sure. >> and, of course, you are there to execute the policies of the commander in chief, but behind the scenes, we understand that the army keeps advocating escalating in afghanistan without any clear mission or victory strategy? >> i think that's a strong statement. i mean, i don't -- to say we

advocate behind the scenes, escalation of the war in afghanistan, i'm in a lot of conversations. i don't ever remember that being one of the recommendations. what i would say is, what we want to do in afghanistan is we think the afghan army has made progress. we want them to take over. it's not that we want to escalate. we want them to take over. we want them to secure their own people. that's the end solution here. that's what we're trying to achieve. what we don't want to happen, is if we pull out a year early or six months early and all of a sudden they aren't able to do that, then we've wasted ten years. and so what we have to do is find -- i think the president has done a good job of walking down that line and trying to come up with the right solution. we're working closely with him. what i have been impressed with with president obama is he absolutely takes advice from lots of different people and then makes a decision. that's what we expect out of him. the chairman gets to do that and as a member of the joint chiefs of staff i have an opportunity do that as well. we have to come up with the right solution here.

just to say it's over, let's leave, i think that's not where we need to be. but, we want to turn it over. >> general, you've talked about between your earlier comments you've made the point about it being an all-volunteer army, the difficulties that poses, such a small percentage of the american population is represented, it's a huge issue, it seems to me, one of the biggest changes that's gone on in the military, the transition from a draft to all-volunteer force, what would the difference be if we went back to a draft, not the political difference, because the support for wars would change if we had a draft again, but to the way we fight wars, your ability? >> and engage americans into a decision if we're going into a ten-year war? >> sure. i'll say a couple things. when i came into the army i came in 1976 after the vietnam war. i was at west point. the army was an absolute mess. discipline issues, drug problems, lack of discipline, so

we made some decisions to change how we do training and organize. and we have done so much better now at forming an army and our professional army is able to perform and respond in my mind in such better ways. we have people who decided to do this as a procession for the most part. and i think that makes us better in the end. what we try to do is we also have an active component, we have a national guard, reserve component and with all three of those components that's what makes up the services. we have to use that to reach in the communities. we have national guards in every state in the unit, every state in the union, spread out, and we have to use that to reach out to the american people. and we got to constantly do that. and it's something we have to do. but it's something we have to be met jointly. it's one of the things that i think is going to be key to us as we move forward in the future. is understanding. it's going to take all of us to make that happen. because i think it's important from a political standpoint, but i also think it's important from the military standpoint.

>> general, we want to thank you on behalf of all the men and women who serve. >> thank you. >> the united states army for all you've done. we understand you've taken the disproportionate share on your shoulders over the past decade for a country too disconnected, too often, happy birthday and let's hope that next year's birthday gets a little bit easier for the men and women in uniform. >> thank you so much for allowing me to come on today. ae we're proud of our soldiers and families. appreciate you allowing me to talk to you today. >> thank you so much. coming up next we have elizabeth warren, weighing in on wall street, and a neck and neck race with senator scott brown in massachusetts. i will be asking her a bevy of boston red sox questions straight ahead. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪

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beautiful shot, what is today, t.j.? >> flag day. >> of course it's flag day. >> i thought it was auburn day. >> i thought we got off flag day. what is this?

>> great holiday growing up, brooklyn queens day, used to get off from school, june 6th, brooklyn queens day. >> look at that shot. >> did you bring that back? >> what a beautiful shot. with us from boston, democratic candidate for u.s. senate, in massachusetts, elizabeth warren. thank you for being with us. so much has happened since we last saw you at fenway, most having to do with applications to law school. can you believe how much your application process has dominated the past month, month and a half of your political campaign up in massachusetts? >> no, i really can't. especially at a time when, you know, jpmorgan chase is loading up on risk again and, you know, managed to get in the news, and when our latest news is that net worth for american families has dropped 38% in three years. you know, there's a lot going on out there in the world and a lot of stuff to talk about. >> all right.

and yet, everybody continues talking tabts whether you -- you know, whether you properly filled out your forms as native american or not. do you think you've gotten that behind you now? are the stories still coming? we're not in boston but that's all we hear about outside of boston. what is the status? do you think the people are sick and tired of hearing that? >> you know, i think the people actually most people were never very interested in it. we got the facts out there early on it. you know, this is how i grew up, joe. this is my family. i'm not backing off from my family. it became clear i didn't get anything for law school application or for college or the jobs that i was hired for. but you know, the bottom line is, it's a real question about are we going to talk about issues or going to talk about other things. and scott brown really doesn't want to have to talk about the issues. he doesn't want to have to talk about what's happening to america's families, what's

happening to families here in massachusetts. because if that's what we were talking about, we'd be talking about three jobs bills in a row that would have supported about 22,000 jobs here in the commonwealth, would have prevented the layoffs of teachers, firefighters, police officers, would have put construction workers back to work and he voted against every one of them. >> do you believe the boston herald is unfairly targeting you? >> you know, "the boston herald" is "the boston herald" what can i say. >> what does that mean for us that don't live in the bay state? >> i don't think i could explain it. because it has its own point of view and it's going to drive its own point of view. but at the end of the day, here's what really matters. what matters is that i keep climbing on scott brown in the polls. we keep having literally tens of thousands of volunteers who say,

i want to be part of this campaign. i understand what is at stake in this election. and i want to be part of making this decision and getting some accountability down in washington, getting somebody who will fight for working families. you know, look, if the question is am i professional politician who should have figured all of this out and had some slick answer to deal with it, the answer is, that's just not me. i walked into this thinking what this race would be about is how families are getting hammered and washington is wired to work for all the big companies that can hire lobbyists, but not to work for the american people. >> so, elizabeth, had you been a united states senator yesterday, and had you seen jamie dimon walk before your committee, what question would you have asked him? >> well, i have had a lot of questions for him but what i

would have started with is, after you managed to lose $3 billion in just a matter of weeks, does this make you change your view at all on all of the cheerleading that you've done to fight against regulation and to weaken regulations? do you think maybe there's just some place in here for stronger regulations to oversee the banks? now, i think he would have made his answer pretty clear and that's no. you know, he was there saying listen to what his testimony really said yesterday. he said in effect, yeah, well, okay, we screwed this up, we're going to do better in the future, but notice, we're going to do better in the future. we don't need the regulators and, you know, the regulations are just too complicated, they're too hard, it's going to be up to us and we're going to take care of this. and there is no role for rules. there's no role for any serious

oversight by anybody else. and this is the fundamental divide. one of the big questions that should be here in this election, one of the big questions for this country, you know, what amazed me yesterday, was how many people in that senate hearing, republicans, were saying, gee, do you think we need to weaken the regulations some more? are the regulations too tough? they were asking this of a bank that just lost $3 billion in a few weeks on loading up on risk again. >> all right. >> let's go to arianna. we've got a few people around that want to get a question in to you. arianna? >> elizabeth, i would have loved to have heard you question jamie dimon yesterday. first of all, you would have known he didn't have to take the t.a.r.p. money. >> yes. >> and you would have made the connection with people's lives. what is the most important connection between what jpmorgan did and what's happening and to

middle-class families across america? >> you know, arianna, that's exactly the right question. let's just do it this way. it was the deregulation of the financial services industry that broke the consumer credit market and put families at risk in mortgages, in credit cards, ultimately in student loans. this economy was broken. one lousy mortgage at a time. and then when those big financial institutions had loaded up on all that mortgage risk and broke the economy, it cost people jobs, it caucost pe their homes, pensions, their savings. it cost us this economy. kids are graduating from college today and can't get jobs. why? because of the crisis that occurred in 2008, from the largest financial institutions including jpmorgan chase, loading up on risk, the bets going bad, and then they broke

the economy. and now the question is, what happens going forward? american families have just taken it on the chin. i get out there across the commonwealth of massachusetts every day and talk to people. i talk to people who say, i don't see how we're ever going to be able to retire. i talk to people who say, we sent our kids to college, they did the right things, now they're loaded up on debt, they can't get a job, they're moving back home. you talk to seniors who say, i lost my pension in 2008. >> this is donny deutsch. >> yeah. >> i want to jump in here. we've talked in terms of romney/obama just saying weight wrong but neither having a clear solution. in 30 seconds, other than more regulation, what are you going to do to create jobs that mr. brown is not going to do. >> so we need two things. the short-term answer is we need a jobs bill. we need to put people to work. >> how are you going to do it? >> you pass a jobs bill. you put people to work.

for example, in construction. we have infrastructure that needs work, transportation roads, repairing the t here. we could have had 11,000 construction jobs here in the commonwealth of massachusetts. scott brown voted against it. that's short term and then long term what we have to do is make the basic investments, education, infrastructure, and scientific research. medical research. those are the things that help build a future. that's what worked from the great depression until the 1980s. it's only once we turned away from making those investments and creating a future, that we ended up in the mess we're in. we know how to fix this. we just have to have the will to do it. >> all right. elizabeth warren, thank you so much for being with us. >> so good to see you. >> mika would have loved to have been here. she is unfortunately out on the cape right now, tearing up all of scott brown's signs and

taking them to the dump. i know you know nothing about that. >> nothing. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i'm not sure -- >> at the hotel -- >> she does have her elizabeth warren sticker on her at all times. >> a big fan. thank you so much, elizabeth. great to see you, as always. rick stengel is here, going to be revealing the latest issue of "time" magazine when we return on "morning joe." for three hours a week, i'm a coach.

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's bring in "time" managing editor, rick stengel. >> it's a very provocative cover story about the crisis of the

undocumented immigration in america. it's written by jose vargas who a year ago this week, came out of the closet as an undocumented immigrant and basically said, what are you going to do about me? what are you going to do you go? what are you going to do about millions of people who are taxpayers, who are working every day, who have children here in america. we are americans in all but name. >> well, barack obama, you said, interestingly enough, is deporting an awful lot of illegal immigrants. more in his 3 1/2 years than in george bush's eight. >> he has deported about 1.2 million undocumented immigrants, more than george bush did in eight years. >> why is that? >> well, i don't know the answer to that, but i think part of it is about enforcing laws that are on the books, and i think that's absolutely what we should be doing. but he also has basically come out in favor of the dream act, which many republicans did once upon a time, and one of the things that jose says in the piece is this just makes sense,

because if you take about, of the 11.5 million undocumented immigrants, probably 1.5 million or 2 million of them are young people who were brought to this country by their parents or relatives who didn't even know they were citizens, through no fault of their own went through school, who are in the workplace, who are paying taxes, who are serving in the military. >> talk about our economy and how our economy is so dependent on undocumented workers. what if they left tomorrow. request. >> i think it would be a real rude shock to the economy and one of the things that jose says in the piece is that undocumented immigrants pay in about $11 billion or $12 billion in taxes through state, federal, and local taxes. that would be a jolt, to not have that. and i think when you talk to regular people about what their lives are like, i don't think citizens want so many of these undocumented immigrants to leave the country. they're working. they're supporting things that

businesses do. i mean, why should they be? >> first of all, in the interest of full disclosure, jose for the "huffington post" is our technology editor. i think this is a fantastic story. thank you for doing it. and it raises a very important point about our dysfunctional leadership. really neither political party is taking a real position here, which i think the american people in general would support. why is that, do you think? why isn't obama doing more to support the dream act? >> well, it's funny. i don't know the answers to that, but here's an issue which i would argue is not ideological in any way. it's a practical issue. you know, we are a nation of immigrants. we actually have a fewer percentage of foreign-born citizens and people living in america now than european countries do. our social mobility is less than it used to be. it's less than certain european countries, in part because we haven't welcomed more immigrants. we don't give green cards to

kids who graduate with science degrees, who are undocumented immigrants. there are a lot of things that both parties should agree on, that both parties realize, this is what makes america great. and it's not an ideological issue. >> let me ask you really quickly about joe klein's road trip. i think there's an absolutely fascinating story. the question is asked all the time, why do working class americans vote against their self-interest. joe klein talks in large part about churches and going to middle american churches, and so many middle american churches that reach in, week in and week out to the working poor in america. >> one of the things that joe says is it's not -- government doesn't touch people's lives so much every day, but often faith-based institutions do. churches, synagogues, all of that who are actually reaching out and helping people. and this is the group that so many working class americans, americans in the south and the midwest recognize and identify with.

and he actually says that's a great thing, and that's a wonderful thing for america, but government actually has to become more involved too. >> that's something we noticed during hurricane katrina. we went over there and drove over, and it took the government about ten days to two weeks to be there. and all of these guys that get lampooned in the press, whether it's jerry folwell's organizations or pat robertson's organizations, they had thousands of kids on the ground, day one, handing out water, giving diapers to kids that didn't have diapers, giving medicine -- i mean, doing all of these things -- >> they're the first responders -- >> they are the first responders, that sometimes those of us detached may not understand why these faith-based groups have such a large sway in middle america. it's not because they're preaching on the pulpit on sunday, it's what they do monday through saturday. >> it helps people live their lives and fills in the cracks

where the government doesn't help them. >> i'm just surprised they let joe klein in those churches. anyway. the new cover of "time" is "we are americans." rich stengel, thank you very much. we greatly appreciate it. a fantastic job by a huffington alumni. we shall return.

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good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast, as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on the set, we have the great john heilemann, donny deutsch, and in washington,

andrea mitchell and mark mckinnon. so, there's all this the back and forth going on, john heilemann. i'm so confused. >> back and forth. >> back and forth, forth and back. they're going to ohio today, they're going to have dueling speeches in ohio on the economy. you see this "washington post" poll out, showing that independents just don't trust either of them on the economy. look at these numbers. and this talks about, these are the president's favorables when it comes to his economic plans. 38% favorable, 50% unfavorable. that is just devastating. how, oh, how, will he ever get passed that? let's see what mitt romney's is. oh! 35% favorable, 47% unfavorable. john heilemann, it is time for americans to select none of the above.

>> yeah, well, if you want to know why the campaign is going to be so negative, that's part of the reason. they both see each other as incredibly vulnerable on the economy, and they think it's for obama trying to make a positive case on the economy is very hard, but he sees romney as vulnerable and he thinks he can disqualify him in that way. romney sees the whole race as being a referendum on obama and sees the numbers that make obama look so vulnerable, so you're going to see them just hammer each other, incessantly for the next five months. >> and yesterday, flanked by about 100 top executives at the business roundtable quarterly, mitt romney told the crowd there that the president hasn't acted in the interest of the free market. >> i happen to believe that if you look at his record over the last 3 1/2 years, you will conclude, as i have, that it is the most anti-investment, anti-business, anti-jobs series of policies in modern american history. he is not responsible for whatever improvement we might be seeing.

instead, he's responsible for the fact that it's taken so long to see this recovery and the recovery is so tepid. my own view is that he will speak eloquently, but that words are cheap, and that the record of an individual is the basis upon which you determine whether they should continue to hold on to their job. >> donny deutsch, you wear two hats here. you wear one, morning news analyst -- >> pundit, pundit. >> pundit. and two, where you wear your disco inferno hat. the funny nozzles that you drink beer and snort coke out of -- >> not anymore, that was -- >> oh, that's right -- >> that was in the early 2000s. >> but, no, you're obviously a supporter of president obama, but you also obviously have a lot of friends who weren't supporters of president obama that say the exact same thing

that mitt romney is now. >> i'm a supporter of president obama, but two weeks ago, it changed everything for me when those numbers came out. i was holding steadfastly that he was going to win. out of ten of the swing states, five of those the unemployment numbers are better than the national average. there's a little rosier picture in some of those swing states. again, i'm searching -- >> well, things like that do matter. >> they do matter. the thing at the end of the day, we can talk all we want, and if the economic numbers, if the jobless numbers continue to go south, it's over. that's it. we all know, you vote, do you keep the guy in office or kick him out? if i take the quote of mitt romney, the last four weeks of the election, start looking hard at massachusetts, and say, it ain't great now, but look what that guy did, you scare people into staying the same. but it's very questionable. >> donny says he's wavering. remember the famous line, the if i've lost donny deutsch, i've

lost -- it rears its head once again. >> also lost a lot of kj jelly that goes along with that. >> oh, my! >> an escalation! >> oh, my! >> i got to go to andrea mitchell, because she needs to bring this back. >> i quote walter cronkite and you act shocked. you think i made that up? >> 6:05 a.m.. >> read brinkley's book. for god's sake. >> astroglide. >> too far. >> just let it lie. >> ask walter cronkite, okay, don't ask me. i'm just the newsman. >> let's push through this. mark mckinnon, it's interesting if you look at those polls about how people about their two economic plans, i would be fascinated to know if people responding actually know what's in the plans at this point. hopefully today will bring some clarity on that. where is the middle on this? i mean, there's the one side, the democratic base likes president obama, they like, perhaps, blaming president bush and republicans and congress. the other side for mitt romney says, lower taxes, help small

business. where do the voters in the middle stand on this? >> well, first of all, the bad news for president obama is obviously that 38% number, but the good news is the romney number is 35%. and you're right. people don't know what the plans are. no labels just came out of the field with a poll where we identified what we call problem solver voters. these are people who choose candidates who are focused on solving problems rather than candidates who are most closely aligned with their party. and it's vereally interesting, % of them consider themselves problem solving voters, and these could be the voters where they really care about the plans. they want to see what obama's economic plan is, see what romney's plan is for the future. they care more about action, than party and politics. so this could be a very important demographic in terms of who swings the election. and right now among these voters, the numbers are 51/49 for romney over obama. 84% of the voters think it's important for a problem solver candidate to work with members

of the opposing party, and 67% don't think they should be bound by pledges. so this is really important group of voters that i think are just going to pay a lot of attention to the actual plans that these candidates put out. and as with we ce can see by th numbers, they don't really understand what those plans are and they want to hear what they're about. >> andrea, the last time the president, underlining this fact, the last time the president's numbers really surged, other than the killing of osama bin laden, was when the president made a deal -- i thought it was a terrible deal -- to extend the bush tax cuts another two years and extend employment benefits and spend $1 trillion without paying for it. but they loved the fact that the republicans and the democrats could agree on something big. and yet the president's not going to come forward with simpson bowles. the president's not going to come forward with any other plans that could at least make it look like he was reaching out to the republicans in a big way.

and make the republicans be the ones that say, no. >> well, you know, i asked that question. i interviewed tim geithner yesterday at the council of foreign relations, and i said, you know, now there are 42 senators, in both parties, who have signed on to simpson bowles. and there have been a number of meetings, dinner meetings with senators, with economists, people around this town have been getting together and talking about coming up with this very kind of grand bargain. and i asked geithner, why not have the president do this the before the election and show the business community, show the world, show the american public, that there is the possibility of two parties working together? and he said, interestingly, that he thinks that simpson bowles is where they're going to end up, but, clearly, doesn't think this that's going to happen before the election, because there doesn't seem to be any momentum on either side to be specific. willie, you talked about hearing more from both candidates. they're both in ohio today, but neither of them are being specific about economic policies.

and so, you know, as we point out, we don't know what we're voting for. >> and that is actually specifics. i think is what the american people want to hear. again, even -- i would just say, politically, have the president push simpson bowles and these other proposals and make the president -- make the republicans say no. make the republicans look bad. i would say the same thing of a republican president if he were in this position. instead, we're going to be looking at 30-second ads like the one wimitt romney's team is airing right now. let's take a listen and then i want to get your response. >> the private sector is doing fine. the private sector is doing fine. the private sector is doing fine -- doing fine -- doing

fine. >> i'm mitt romney and i approved this message. >> look, i mean, that's -- that's why they call it a gaffe. i mean, he's going to get hit with that. i think it's as much out of context as the attacks when romney said, i don't care about the very poor, but, look, the thing that the president's -- the effectiveness of that kind of an ad, the basic, brute effectiveness of it is clear. and the president faces this choice that is kind of underlined by some of the stuff mark mckinnon is talking about, which they have been trying for a long time to make the case that the economy is getting a little bit better all the time, too slowly, but getting better a little bit, little bit, little bit. what i think mark's problem solving voters are the same kind of people that stan greenberg and his group, stan greenberg, the former pollster, went out to ohio and pennsylvania, democracy core, talked to focus groups to

people in ohio and pennsylvania. and the most powerful thing they found was that people do not believe it, that the economy's getting for the. the numbers almost don't matter. people are at this place now where they think the economy is, in a new place structurally. it's just, it's not going to get better soon and to try to sell them on the notion that there is progress is a fool's errand. >> andrea, i want to ask you about the spectacle we saw up on the hill in front of the senate banking committee. jpmorgan chase ceo jamie dimon called to testify there about those bad bets made by his company against the debt market that cost him about $3 billion. dimon called the trading an embarrassment. let's listen to what he said. >> this portfolio morphed into something that rather than protect the firm could do particularly larger risks. as a result, we have let a lot of people down and we are sorry for it. we will not make light of these losses, but they should be put

into perspective. we will lose some of our shareholder's money, and for that we feel terrible, but no client, customer, or taxpayer money was impacted by this event. >> when you reduce a hedge or hedge a hedge, isn't that really gambling? >> i don't believe so, no. >> so this transaction that you said morphed, what did it morph into? russian roulette? >> it morphed into something that i can't justify, that was just too risky for our company. >> joe's got a photograph that kind of sums up the day. >> i always said i loved jamie dimon, how can you not love jamie dimon? you know what you said he looked like? a superhero. >> he's about to take flight. >> you know why he gets the pass? because people like him. he doesn't sound like a banker -- >> a pass from you, jamie dimon. >> you know, if blankfein is sitting in that chair, it's a whole different meeting.

jamie dimon is a likable guy, a guy next door, not an evil banker. >> we now know who holds donny's private wealth accounts. >> i'll tell you what -- >> i'm just telling it like it is. his brand is a very appealing brand. >> well, it's not -- a brand? >> it's not about his brand. >> yes, it is. >> he's also, andrea, he's pretty damned good at what he does. >> well, he's good at what he does, and he sort of confronted it and dealt with it. their stock went up yesterday. he did well by any standards. and he was not given a really bad, bad time by the committee. so he made the most that he could out of it. he refused to give proprietary information, saying that they -- clearly, they still have to unwind these positions, so they wouldn't say exactly how big the bets were, wouldn't go into the details, and took the hit and said it was his fault, with mary thompson on cnbc, immediately afterwards, he was asked by mary about the fact that he had the best reputation. he said, no more, or something to that effect.

so he's very blunt and kind of admitting his fault in this. geithner, again, said that they handled it well after the fact, and that they did the best that they could and that the system worked in a strange way, because they had enough capital so that they were not risking the entire system by these bad trades. >> that's my point. he's a straighter shooter. comes across that way. and also helps him when you have a senator or a congressman saying, well, you took the t.a.r.p. money. he said, no, we didn't want to, we had to! >> can i ask a broad and actually a sincere question. >> as opposed to an insincere question? >> no, it sounds facetious, but i mean it. what was the point of that exercise yesterday? i know on paper what it was supposed to be, but did we learn anything from that or gain anything from that? will the system change? i'm not saying that he shouldn't have been called before it, but what was the objective? >> it was -- >> two words, grandstanding. >> that's what i'm saying.

>> it was total politics on the part of the committee. they just wanted to get their oar in and show that they were beating up on a big, bad banker. >> but they didn't. >> look at this guy, okay. here's the deal. if your name is allen and you were the boxing champion of the princeton intermural league, do not ask joe frazier to come and spar with you, because he's going to kick your ass, he's going to embarrass you in front of all of your friends, and he's going to send you back to the corner. jamie dimon, just, you know what, don't even try. don't even try to grandstand with jamie dimon because he's not going to play your game. he didn't play their game back in 2008 and 2009 when they were calling him down there. >> no, they didn't. the real net effect of this may be the banking regulations, the volcker rule, the details of dodd/frank that he was opposing, he's no longer going to be the tribune for the industry against that. he can't be, at least publicly. so the anti-regulatory effect

has been, you know, has been damaged or the anti-regulatory movement to roll back some of those. but it's been three years and we have not yet seen all of, you know, the oversight go into effect. so they're all dragging their feet on this, because i don't think they know what to do. >> yeah. coming up next, a college dropout who made a living taking tests for other people. where was this guy when i needed him? he even faked having a harvard law degree with the help of an ambitious top attorney. no, it's not donny deutsch's resume, it's the premise between usa network's hit legal series, "suits." the show has two stars here and we'll be talking to them, coming up next pb but first here's bill karins. he pretends he's a meteorologist, but it only takes five seconds to figure out that he's not. >> it's still for the than those guys, though. that was almost like bad wrestling. well, good morning, everyone. let's take you to dallas-ft.

worth, area. yesterday, an amazing hailstorm went through. that's a river of hail in someone's backyard. and this is what happens when large hail meets windshields and back windows. knocks it right out. this was big enough to knock off the marquee of this building and look at the back windshields of those cars. some repairs to be done today in the dallas area. as far as the thunderstorms this morning, the worst of it up around st. cloud, minnesota, and that could drift over towards minneapolis this morning. we'll watch that for you. forecast, severe storms likely today. nebraska, near omaha, the worst of it, maybe tornadoes latter this afternoon and tonight near minneapolis and st. paul. forecast wise, it doesn't get much better than this, if you're up and at it in the east coast, get outside. what a beautiful day it is. and in the west, if you're waking up this morning, relatively cool on the coast, but hot interior sections. phoenix to the interior of california, a very warm day today. we'll see mid-90s in areas like fresno, but this is a very calm weather pattern, we haven't had many tornadoes, hopefully we

won't do that many this afternoon in minneapolis. i'll watch it for you, beautiful weather and hot weather coming your way for father's day in st. louis. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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my merger, your panic attack. >> your compassion. and i didn't have a panic attack, i had a legitimate

reason for concern. >> really? why would she ask you to dinner just to fire you? >> i don't know, a little movie called goodfellas, did you see it? joe pesci thought he was getting money. >> do you think i might get an office out of this dinner? >> a second ago you thought you were going to get whacked, now you want an office? >> i'm adapting to different circumstances. >> maybe you won't be the worst lawyer in the history of everything. >> put the gun down, karen. karen? >> 24 past the hour. that was a scene from the hit legal series on usa network, "suits," whose second series premieres tonight, and we're joined now by the two stars of the show, gabriel macht and patrick j. adams. how'd i do? >> perfect. >> patrick adams, good with that? >> got it. >> tell us about "suits," this looks like fun. >> i don't get a lot of time to watch television -- >> you don't watch anything. you know nothing about -- >> i'm going to have catch. i have a tv now where you can

make things come back. >> oh, really, the make things come back technology. >> yes. and i'm going to start watching these shows you all talk about. >> this is a monster hit. >> a monster? >> it's a show about a young guy, mike ross, who's at the bottom of the barrel at the beginning of the first season and gets this great opportunity to work at this giant corporate law firm, but the trick is he never actually went to law school. >> uh-huh. and then is your character bad, good, mean, evil? >> my character, he's aed good guy, he's got a good moral backbone, but he's a bit cocky. he's very compassionate. he sees that this kid's got a photographic memory and a lot of heart and sees him as his ace in his pocket. >> you guys have been part of a sea change in television. your show last year, actually the most watched show, cable or broadcast, in the 10:00 thursday time slot. it never would have happened -- usa has hit a nerve. why is that happening? >> i think usa's really figured

out a formula, especially during the summer, i think there was a void that they filled. and they're a great network. quality television. a very smart lady and a very smart guy and created something very special. and from our end, they're really supportive of the creative process and engage us and let everybody play a part in it. i think they care about good writing and care about good acting. >> so we've seen law firm shows come and go and many of them quite successful. what makes this one different? >> every episode, we have an open and shut case. but each of those cases directly reflect what's going on in the characters' relationships within the show. and this year it's becoming a little bit more serialized, so we're getting a little bit deeper into the characters' backgrounds. and if you watch a show, the characters are so unique, there's really someone for everyone out there to identify with. and there's some great, witty banter, but then it gets into some real serious territory. so you've got a lot of colors.

>> there seems to be a thread in all the usa hit shows, very kind of urbane and smart, great writing, they're proving that you can go mass market with very kind of smart, urbane television. and it's kind of a new math. >> i think what they've also figured out is that you can use humor not just to be funny for the purpose of being funny, but you can use it to tell great stories and actually get to know people better. all their shows have a real sense of humor, but they use it so you get to sort of integrate with these characters in a way that other televisions shows don't. >> you both have a pretty good background of hit shows, some that were not on the air, but some were the better shows on television, "friday night lights," which one of you -- >> i did "friday night lights." >> they look like each other. >> they've got the whole ryan seacrest brother thing going on. >> you know what i'm talking about. >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> the spitting image of ryan

seacrest. >> you guys are doing the hair thing and i think it's time to stop. >> i want to do this hair thing. >> who am i asking? >> i'm just saying, it's like that, you know, i'm going to make it look messy, but what i'll do is put gel in it and have it cut -- >> do you actually go blech, blech, blech. >> it's funny that the show is called "suits" and not "hair." >> your hair is a freaking sculpture. i bet you spent a lot of time on that. >> it didn't move when you touch it. >> and you too! >> can i give you guys a little advice -- >> here it comes. whenever she's going to say, do the opposite. >> okay, if you want to get ahead of the times and being cutting edge, don't work so hard on your hair. i think that time is passing. >> i disagree. >> really? >> the metrosexual guy, it's not working for us! >> none of us are metrosexuals.

we think of ourselves as well-groomed -- >> let's talk about the show, huh? >> it's interesting, because you guys might be like, what, trailblazers, because you have this hit show and people are going to follow you. where do you want them to go? >> you know what's interesting about our show, is just like "sex and the city" -- >> that's called a pivot, in political terms. >> i'm insulting, i know. >> let him pivot and talk about the show. >> the show is called "suits," because we're dealing with lawsuits, but also important, we are fashion forward in this show. >> well, that's interesting. >> very much like "sex and the city" was for women, i think our show is that for men. >> so is it skinny legs now, and the suits are very sculpt -- >> for my suits, kind of younger and the more tailored and he's wearing tom ford suits that are classically -- >> supposed to be trendy -- i think for america, we could put those both in the trendy --

>> can i -- you want to feel like pressing a button in there or are you guys just asleep. let me see the outfits. >> look at that tie. look at that collar. >> so you guys must be getting a lot of female followers at this point? >> i think so, yeah. we're getting more and more. >> how's that working for you? because i want to get to the important things. the show is a hit. now you go out at night, go to restaurants, what happens? this is why i do television, because i want to meet -- >> you want to know -- >> break it down. >> we have a really strong fan base, so we've connected with people in a way that i don't think any of us really -- >> no, talk real -- i'm talking, you're out an an italian restaurant -- >> you get a lot of eyes doing this, and as soon as they you make eye contact -- >> it depends who you're with. >> someone recognized me the other day and he was like, oh, my god, i recognize you! denzel washington! i am not kidding.

>> that's wonderful. it's a start. season two of "suits" premieres tonight on usa at 10:00 p.m. thank you very much. and you have very nice hair. coming up next, debora canning, we'll ask her where she developed her new approach to education. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] knowing your customers

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34 past the hour. joining us now, the ceo and founder of the harlem village academy, it's debora kinney. debora has been on our show many times to discuss her mission to reform education, but today she's here to tell us her story behind her passion and it's an amazing story. her new book is "born to rise": a story of children and teachers reaching their highest potential," but she had to reach deep to make that happen and now does that for so many people. deborah, great to have you back on the show. >> it's great to be here. >> deborah, by the way, inspired me to mentor some children from her school, and again, as she told me, it was a gift for me, and not for their -- they're the most amazing children i'll ever meet. and my daughters and i are all the better for it.

tell us why you wrote this the book. it's deeply personal, as to how this all started for you. >> you know, it started as something personal. after my husband passed away, it was a little over ten years ago. i was reading books all night, up to 2:00 in the morning, couldn't sleep, and i read jonathan cozell's book about the plight of children who are trapped in failing schools and their mothers who are wonderful, but have no recourse, because the education system forces kids to just go to the failing school in their neighborhood. >> but you were in a serious -- your husband had passed away, how many kids did you have? >> right, three children of my own. >> and the teens, how old were they? >> at the time, they were little, as the time, they were 11, 9, and 8. >> three small kids, and you were reading all night. >> right, and there was another book, there were many, but it was "the search for meaning," and there was phrase in there where he said, we have to teach the despairing men, it's not

what does life have to offer, but what is life asking of you. it was that phrase that moved me to say, i have to do something. i have to get moving. there's so much human suffering in the world far beyond what i'm going through. >> so tell us what you did, but even more, how you did it in the middle of all this. how you were even able to do anything. >> well, you know, the idea of the millions of children in america trapped in failing schools, it sounds like a number that's so large, you know, you think of it as a number. but then when you read about particular children, you're so moved to want to help them, and so, i just decided, look at harlem. it was, at the time, the worst-performing school district in new york city, and certainly many say in the country. and do something about it. >> and your school has now become a model around the country. george w. bush came to your school in 2007, personally, with your school as a backdrop, to announce that this is the

national model. so you talked about it, it was one of the worst-performing school districts in the country. what's the secret sauce? i know when we first went to your school, i remember you telling me, i hold these kids to the same standard to i hold my own children. if they come in waving, i got a "c," i got a "c,," isn't that great? no, get an "a." >> we want to provide a vision on par with the best schools in the country with, no matter what the socioeconomic background of our children. so passing a test is not something that we really talk about. in fact, when we did reach 100% passing the test, we did not talk about closing the achievement gap. we did not claim that. to me, achievement is not about passing a basic test. so we have a vision that our teachers carry out, which is a higher level of learning, critical thinking, raising children to be compassionate. having them really, you know, relate to each other and the

world, and look at the world and say, you know, i'm responsible to do something. not, i'm here to receive the gifts of people, you know, who are here to help me, but what can i do as a leader. so when you ask a kid who has not been given a lot in their life to begin with to actually be a leader, it gets them thinking differently about themselves. >> how do you overcome the misformer that, first of all, so much respect for what you do, you are a teacher and a life changer. i've heard from so many people, if it's at home, if it's so crewed up and there's no family structure and there's all these abuses and craziness, it doesn't matter what you do during those six hours in the school day. obviously, you've proved that wrong, but why is that such conventional wisdom? >> well, you know, it's been that way, i was reading about the history of education over the last, you know, ten years and you're right, i remember reading in the '60s and '70s the dean of harvard school of education blaming poverty for the problems. so here's -- the way i see it

is, we get in our schools and everybody gets in all the public schools a whole variety of children and parents. you have the most wonderful, lovely, committed families on one end of the spectrum, you have, like you said, really troubled families at the other, and then you have the middle. well, that's what the world is filled with. if you want to become an educator, you're there because -- >> but mom's a crack addict and -- >> it's the worst end of the spectrum? well, you're there to help the child as a teacher, so you do whatever it takes. in some cases, the children say, our teachers are also our parents, in some cases. so the teachers just take on that extra dedication. you don't use it as an excuse. >> this came from a chaotic time in your life and you've pilt an empire around it, an educational empire. in the book, the personal aspect of it is inspirational, heartbreaking and galvanizing, all at once. the book is "born to the rise," deborah kenny, thank you so much. come back soon. >> thank. up next, business before the

bell with brian sullivan. we'll be right back. the medicare debate continues in washington...

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let's get a check on business pbefore the bell. as always, we turn to brian sullivan across the river. what's up? >> i will try to begin the day with a friendly voice, however, the jobless claims numbers were not so great. we saw the numbers come in a little higher than expected. the four-week moving average also crept back up. so guys, pretty clear, the job market remains tight. the economy kind of in a holding pattern, maybe for the election, maybe for the greek election, maybe for, you know, insert event here. but we're sort of in a stall mode right now with regard to jobs, unfortunately. >> all right. we'll keep an eye on those numbers. talk to me about jamie dimon, reaction on wall street, reaction by the markets yesterday? >> you know, the markets didn't react as much, because

everybody's waiting for greece. sunday is sort of the big day for the market in the next couple of days. but the reaction, people watched jamie dimon's testimony. and for one, our own jim cramer called him a loser. he didn't call jamie dimon personally a loser, but said he was coming out of this as a loser. dimon was heralded as the best of the big bankers, but here he is saying, we screwed up, we blew it. just another black eye for the banks on wall street. and whether you like banks or not, unfortunately, we need banks. and the four biggest banks are bigger now than they were before the financial crisis. go figure! >> cramer said that about jamie dimon yesterday? >> oh, yeah, got a lot of heat. i was on a flight back from atlanta, but i landed and my twitter blew up, as they say. >> interesting. brian sullivan, cnbc headquarters, thanks. up next, our conversation with the hall of fame joe walsh of the eagles. heilemann, this is huge. >> love joe walsh. >> keep it on "morning joe."

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♪ i get to live out here in california ♪ ♪ i drive a palm tree and a swimming pool ♪ ♪ play my music

>> welcome back. that was grammy award-winning rock 'n' roll legend joe walsh with a song from his latest album. the former guitarist for the eagles is out with his first solo project in 20 years, "analog man," and joe joins us right here on the set. and willie, look how old we are. look at this! >> it's beautiful to see vinyl once in a while. >> although i will point out, the compact disc is still here, so he's not a fully analog man. >> this brings you back, just to be able to hold one. >> you can get it on itunes, i bet. >> you can find it on itunes. >> i just thought, analog versus digit digital, it was a good theme. kind of an undercurrent to have on the album. the bulk of my work was done analog. and it is a new technology, it's digital. and those of us from the analog days have had to make some

adjustments. and there's a virtual world that comes along with it, which doesn't exist and we're all spending more and more time in there, you know? while our bodies sit in chairs waiting for our brains to cam back. and i just wanted to recognize that. this is an analog planet and we are analog living things. and left to my own devices, i like side "b." you know? i miss stuff like that. >> so here's the most obvious question. 20 years since your last solo album. what have you been doing? >> well, in 1994, the eagles decided to get back to work, and that was "hell freezes over" and we've been around the world probably four times since then.

i just never really got any momentum going to put a solo project together and finish it and put it out. none of us really have. >> and what changed that gave birth to this? something changed. all of a sudden you got one out. >> i got married. and i finally found a partner and a part of me that was missing. and she's a closer. i have great ideas and i get them started, but then i have another great idea, and my wife is a closer. and she said, i think you should sit down and finish this and put it out, because i believe in it. and she said, and here's jeff lynn's phone number. >> that helps too. >> that helped a lot. >> there's another important element, not just her business acumen, but you say your wife helped you get sober, which is maybe perhaps the key to all of this. >> yeah, i'm 18 years sober now,

but also one of the reasons why i went away for a while was, i ran out of options and it was time for me to get sober. that was also 1994. and i had to start all over. i had convinced myself that i couldn't do anything without a buzz. and i ended up -- i ended up just totally dependent on alcohol and other substances. i had to learn to do everything all over again. i had to start from the bottom and find joe without vodka. and that took as long as it took. and my wife has more time than i. and she's really showing me the way to do all this. >> the eagles, i would say, are a huge thing for you. they've been part of your life forever. you guys are planning the 40th

anniversary reunion tour now. think about all the work you did together, all the standards, all the albums. what's the monument? if you have to pick one to think about, this is what i'm proudest of what we did, and get rid of everything else, and keep one thing we could all keep forever, what would that be? >> we never dreamed that "hotel california" would affect as many people on the planet as it did. we knew it was good and we knew it was done, but with we really captured an era, which was the '70s and the music community in southern california. it was a very creative period, and thank god somebody pushed record and we got it down. "hotel california," i think is a -- >> that's great. you guys captured it on the

record and also captured it in the studio. >> a lot of good stuff that we got recorded. >> when the four of us gets together, it turns into something bigger than any of us individually. and if we don't do it, we miss it. >> some of it look as a favor to your brother-in-law, putting him on the album. not as much of an album when your brother is ringo starr. how'd you get ringo on the album? >> i played on his, so he had to play on mine. >> joe walsh, thank you so much for being here. much more "morning joe" in just a moment. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac

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