wonkblog.com. and on facebook.com/ezraklein. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. have a great night. in ohio today, if you wanted to hear the details of the romney plan, you had to listen to the obama speech. swing state showdown for president obama and mitt romney. >> doing speeches on the economy. >> the crucial battleground state of ohio. >> the next president of the united states. >> thank you. >> the president of the united states. >> thank you! >> duelling messages for our nation's economic future. >> i won't call it a back alley brawl. >> in the same state, on the same day. >> president obama is on the other side of the state. >> i think you deserve a real debate. >> today he's going to talk about how he's going to really give a boost to energy. >> two fundamentally different views. >> he wants voters to see this election as a choice election.

>> a choice. >> that debate starts with an understanding of where we are and how we got here. >> our pro growth policies are working for all americans. >> repercussions of the bush recession. >> these tax cuts are doing exactly what we expected. >> for the wealthiest americans, it worked out really well. >> oh, really? >> prosperity never trickled down to the middle claz. >> so what is the romney message? >> we will limit the size of government. >> you simply can't say your plan is to lay off workers and say you're creating jobs. >> today, our auto industry is back on top of the world. >> oh, really? >> you cannot misstate the impact the auto bailout had. you can't say better. it's either better or it's not. >> two fundamentally different visions. thank you.

today in ohio before president obama and mitt romney's back to back speeches on the economy, the brains at the romney campaign decided to make some noise. nbc news tweeted, the campaign bus is driving around president obama's speech site honking its horn. mitt romney spoke first in cincinnati before a crowd of no more than 200 people, working without a teleprompter meant romney did not get into the specifics of his economic plan. oh, and the other reason he didn't get into the specifics is that he knows he would lose ohio in a landslide if he did. so he tried to put some spin on the president's speech. >> he's going to be a person of eloquence as he describes his plans for making the economy better. but don't forget, he's been president for 3 1/2 years and

talk is cheap. actions speak very loud. >> romney dids veer into a new version of his big hit, i like being able to fire people. >> in my experience in thinking about people who i want to have work for me, whether it's my doctor or the person that's going to be painting the house, i want to make sure they did a good job the first time. and if they didn't, i want someone who can't can do a better job. >> minutes after romney's speech, president obama took the stage before a cheering crowd of 12500 people at a community college. the president wanted ohio to be ready for the bombardment of negative campaign ads that will fill that state. >> the other side will spent billions of dollars on ads that will tell you the economy is bad, it's all my fault, that i can't fix it because i think government is always the answer

or because i didn't make a lot of money in the private sector and don't understand it or because i'm in over my head or because i think everybody and everything is doing just fine. that's what the scary voice in the ads will say. that's not a plan to create jobs. it's not a plan top grow the economy. >> the president went into much detail, but summarized his plan for economic growth and economic fairness this way -- >> that's my vision for america -- education, energy, innovation, infrastructure, and a tax code focused on american job creation and balanced deficit reduction. >> the president told ohio voters it is now up to them to break the stalemate in washington. >> what is holding us back is a stalemate in washington between

two fundamentally different views of which direction america should take. and this election is your chance to break that stalemate. this november you can provide a mandate for the change we need right now. you can move this nation forward and you can remind the world just again why the united states of america is still the greatest nation on earth. thank you. >> i'm going to get into the very weirdest thing romney said in the speech, but my favorite substantive point he said was something that will be, i'm sure, ignored by all the political media until now. and that was, of course, the tax increase that he proposed. let's listen to romney proposing a tax increase on day one.

>> well, on day one, i'll label china a currency manipulator and that will allow me to apply tariffs where they steal property and jobs. >> no uh that comes under the jurisdiction of the tax committee because they're a sales tax paid by americans on chinese goods. a lex, it's not every day that you hear a republican candidate for president saying on day one, i've got a sales tack increase for you. >> yeah. it's not every day that you hear a republican candidate trying to gin up enthusiasm at a pivotal point in his campaign by channelling anger, economic frustration at china. this romney day one, lawrence, day one based on the ads is going to be the longest day in history. i'm not quite sure it's the kind of day we measure on the current calendar. apparently he's going to do everything that day. he's going to balance the deficit, repeal obamacare with

something else, we don't know what. he's going to deal with our relationship with china. i mean, these are platitudes. you know, mitt romney has railed against the president's lack of substance on these issues. he has offered us nothing in the way of actual policy prescriptions. aside from putting his arm around paul ryan's budget plan. now, i think the president was masterful today in really wrapping mitt romney and the extreme wing of the republican party together and saying, in effect, these guys are outliars, they are even divorced from traditional republicans who have been great through the country through time. he channelled nixon. he talked about abe lincoln and talked about ronald reagan and positioned mitt romney as somebody who's distinctly out of touch and has policies that will be incredibly detrimental to this country. >> i agree the president was good and clear at outlying what is the romney economic plan. rockne didn't bother to do that, really. let's listen to how romney

outlined the car. >> they'll cut $1 trillion from the part of the budget that includes education, job trainer to medical research and clean energy. it would also take away coverage from another 19 million americans who rely on medicaid. and they propose turning medicare into a voucher program which will shift more costs to seniors and eventually end the program as we know it. tens of millions of middle class families will end up paying higher taxes. many of you would end up paying higher taxes to pay for this other tax cut. >> and ari, the truth of it is, the president was being way too fair there because he wasn't factoring in that the republicans at the same time are promising to close the budget deficit, also cut taxes. if you're to do that, you're basically going to be closing down the federal government. >> i think that's about right. and that's the whole problem here. there's this language about the president being in over his head, but has alex wagner is saying so many of these plans

are not detailed. there was the big fed study out last week that showed people in the bottom fifth saw their network go from about $1,500 down to 0 the past three years. if you have something set aside and you're down to zero, you're in a lot of trouble. 4 medical insurance and safety net, uh yo know, cutting that basically takes people and puts them one medical emergency away from bankruptcy or homelessness. i don't mean to sound very dramatic from this, but this is very real. and that's what they're talking about doing, not targeting the middle or upper middle. these are not questions about tradeoffs. this is literally taking programs there for the neediest and trying to go right at them to. and basically a huge risk to people who need the most help right now. >> it was a long speech, 54

minutes. those of us who have to watch it to review it and those in the hall are the ones that saw the whole thing. eand the president knows that. he doesn't expect anyone to get through the whole thing. one of the passages that struck me a lot was he did something that indicates a kind of confidence in a campaign. he got to a point where he was saying if you agree with that, vote for the other guy. he got into a rhythm of go ahead and vote for h imif you agree with that and if you agree with that. and then he did a little chuckling challenge to the press saying i look forward to the media checking out the facts of how i, president obama, have described the romney plan. >> i totally agree with you, lawrence. that stood out. also as part of that, this sort of shift in narrative. the president has been making a lot of "i" statements, "we" statements. this is the first speech where

he said you, american voter, you have a chance to break this stalemate. the other thing that does is it gets people to buy into this election. there's a lot of talk about d disenfranchisement, lack of enthusiasm. and here was the president clearly laying out two incredibly different paths for the country and saying you, american voter, this is your country. this is your america. if you want one thing, go for the republicans. if you want the country that i am proposing, vote in november. this is the future and you are part of it and you have a chance to make a difference. >> alex wagner and ari melmer, thank you. >> you don't want to miss the speech. we're going to also go into why ohio is so important this year and every year. joe kleine is in ohio along with nina turner. and later, rush limbaugh tries to tell nuns what to do.

that is not going to work out so well for rush. sister csimone will join me. and rush is so lucky he's not here. but lisaling is here and she's done a closeup look at the work american nuns are doing. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. you know that comes with a private island? really? no. it comes with a hat. see, airline credit cards promise flights for 25,000 miles, but... [ man ] there's never any seats for 25,000 miles. frustrating, isn't it? but that won't happen with the capital one venture card. you can book any airline, anytime.

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>> this november is your chance to render a verdict on the debate how to grow the economy, create jobs and pay down the deficit. your vote will finally determine the path that we take as a nation. not just tomorrow, but for years to come.

that's what this election is all about. that's what's at stake. >> no one has won the presidency without winning ohio since 1960. and no republican has ever won the presidency without winning ohio. the new poll has the president leading mitt romney in ohio 48-42. joining me now from ohio, nina turner, ohio democratic state senator. erp in the ohio today with president obama during the speech. was the response in the hall reflective in the way that speech is going to play in the rest of the state? >> very much so. people were excited. thousands of people that showed up, they still have hope. hope springs tern s eternal. ohio recognizes we're a bellwether state.

t yes, everybody is fired up and ready to go for the president. >> the president and senator turner were the only people in ohio who will have seen the entire speech. they will pick up pieces of it in the local news coverage. his layout, a big, long speech. let the local media pick out whatever pieces they want, let us pick out what pieces we want. what are you picking up in your travels in ohio, joe, about how these two campaigns are playing there? >> well, it's going to be very close, lawrence. i spent the last five days. the middle part of my 21-day road trip here. i met with all different kinds of people. the kind of speech the president made today, at least the sound bites and the clips that i have seen. work well with the base. there are a lot of people on the democratic side of the ledger. i met with uaw workers this morning who are ready to go out and work with the president. but this election is not going

to be decided by them. so much as it is by the 10s for or 20% of the middle of the electorate. yoong this kind of speech does much for them at all. these are people who are incredibly skeptical about the ability of government to do something. and the president has failed profoundly in his ability to explain to them what he's done. nobody knows what's in the dodd/frank bill. nothing clear is breaking up the big banks. nobody knows what's in obamacare. nobody knows -- well, people know about the stimulus because it's harder to get to work because of all the road construction crews. the one thing that has worked tremendously in the president's advantage here is the auto bailout where, you know, you go to a place like lords town where they're running triple shifts and that factory was practically dead three years ago. a lot of auto parts

manufacturers are doing extremely well because the auto industry is revived. and mitt romney was against that. so the president still, tho ugh, ha as major lift. he has to start explaining what he's done. >> senator, if the voters of ohio don't quite know what the president has done, and voters everywhere i think have similar levels of information that they're dealing with. the president was clear today about what he has tried to do that republicans have prevented him from doing. is that as important a message for ohio voters? >> it's very important, lawrence. i think ohio voters do know. they know that republicans wholesale tried to take away collective bargaining rights from firefighters, police officers, teacher, highway patrolmen and women and they voted overwhelmingly, over 61% to stand with workers in the state along with the president.

their families understand that the president saved their livelihood. the folks in the state of ohio understand that the president is about saving the middle class and that they do have a choice. and the president made that very clear today that the choice is about a president that stands up for the middle class. the president that believes that everybody should put in their is fair share or elect in someone. we're going to make history again by putting president obama back in the white house. or keeping him in the white house. >> joe, our polling shows broem with a larger lead overall just on the question of who would you vote for. but on this other question, which i think is the most important question in ohio, which candidate would do a better job mandling the economy?

that is a statistical tie. 45% say president obama, 42% say mitt romney. there isn't a big gap there. >> there has to be a big gap in his favor, i would think but i do think that there isn't much enthusiasm for romney. but there are an awful lot of people who wonder what the president has done. and there are people who will vote for romney over the incumbent because the economy hasn't come back to the extent it should have. you go down to southeastern ohio which is appalachia and people are really suffering there. in lordstown and around cleveland, the jobs have come back, but in a large part of the state, they haven't. in place where is the jobs haven't come back, maybe it's not so amazing, those people are tending to look more favorably on romney. >> "time's" magazine joe kleine

and ohio state senator nina turner. thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up, the weirdest thing. the very, very weirdest thing that mitt romney said in his speech today. that's all i'm going to say about it. stick around for "the rewrite." and rush limbaugh is now in the business of attacking nuns. we'll find out how scared the nuns of rush limbaugh when sister simone joins me later. she's one of the nuns on a bus tour protesting the paul ryan budget plan. and lisaling will join us. she's done her own up-close report on american nuns. that's coming up. t team usa and show our olympic spirit right in our own backyard. so we combined our citi thankyou points to make it happen. tom chipped in 10,000 points. karen kicked in 20,000. and by pooling more thankyou points from folks all over town, we were able to watch team usa... [ cheering ]

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republicans keep insisting their tax cut mania is the best way to grow the economy and increase jobs even though it has never worked that way. democrat presidents have a much better economic record than republican presidents and the numbers prove it. robert reich joins me next. and in tonight's "rewrite" what do you think was the weirdest thing mitt romney said in that speech today? okay, here's a hint. it was in the spot where he talked about what he did on memorial day. i'll explain what was so weird about that in "the rewrite." you know, we're a little early for this thing...

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that salaries and wages go up so people make more money. i want to help the middle class of america and i'm going to do it. >> we're poised to see a resurgence of american economic vitality. >> in the spotlight tonight, mitt romney and the republicans' plan to help the country experience what romney calls, quote, a resurgence of american economic vitality. president obama defined the romney plan with more specificity than romney did. >> the theory that the best way to grow the economy is from the top down. romney believes if you simply take away regulations and cut taxes by trillions of dollars, the market will solve all of our problems on its own. if you agree with that, you should vote for them. and i promise you, they will take us in that direction.

without presidential leadership, it simply can't happen. controlling only one chamber, republicans in congress can only do so much. >> joining us now is robert reich, now a professor of economics at the university of california berkeley. today, i heard mitt romney announce how he was going to bring this country back. and the specifics were two things. one, a tax increase. he didn't use that phrase but he said he's going to raise tariffs on chinese products. so that is a tax increase as we know. paid for my bern consumers. and then, secondly, repeal obama care. and that, as far as i can tell, the complete romney plan on getting the economy running again. how does it sound to you?

>> that's the complete plan. it's not nearly as bad as the plan i've heard from romney in past months. it's going to be a tax on average american consumer, getting rid of obama care, including all of the things that people like about obama care, insurers provide coverage to pre-existing conditions and allow parents to have coverage for their, even their children up to age 21 and so own and so forth, take us backwards to when 50 million americans did not have health care an we all ended up paying anyway because we support those emergency rooms. but lawrence, there's something else. romney has said repeatedly, he wants to cut taxes on the very wealthy. the nonpartisan tax policy center here in washington has done a computation of what romney's tacks would do.

and they've concluded that the typical millionaire or someone earning over $1 million gets $950,000 over a ten-year period, over $100,000 simply in year one from romney's plan. i mean, this is absurd. at a time when we have a budget deficit and so many people in need in america, this is reverse robin hood. >> the president gave a lecture about how we found ourselves in the economic predicament we're in now and why the american people are experiencing in the middle class a sense of economic shrinkage, certainly of their buying power and their economic potential. let's listen to that. >> we're recovering from the crisis of 2008, the most urgent order of business is not enough. our economy won't be truly

better until we reverse the erosion of middle class jobs and middle class incomes. what makes our economy weak is even fewer and fewer people can buy the goods and services our businesses sell. businesses don't have customers if folks are having such a hard time. there's an ever widening gap between a few folks who are doing extraordinary narl well and a growing number of people who no matter how hard they work can barely make ends meet. >> last night on the show, we had the author of the new book, the great divergence. he points out this this complementary fact. pretax income increased much faster than republican presidencies, not just for the republican percentile. americans were richer and more equal. and you saw that. but as the labor secretary under

president clinton. >> absolutely. those year, we have the best economy that we have seen in this country over the past 60 years. and we did it because everybody did better. the rising tide does lift all boats. the president is exactly correct, president obama. when he says what we have seen, particularly over the last 30 year, except for the clinton administration, when we had something very different is the wealthy, the top 1% getting more and more of the foal national pie, income and wealth. almost all the gains of productivity over the last five year, six years have gone to the very top. what that means is the vast middle class doesn't have the purchasing power to keep the economy going. the president has proposed over and over again a variety of ways of dealing with this widening gap, this increasing inequality. and the republicans on the hill have simply said no. we don't want it. we want the rich to be even better. trickle down economics which is

their reigning principlely fosly in terms of economics over and over again does not work. it is bunk. >> thanks for joining me tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up, is rush limbaugh working with the vatican? now rush limbaugh is attacking american nuns. i know who's going to win that fight. sister simone will join me, as will lisaling who's done a closeup report on american nuns. and the weirdest draft dodger ever to run for president is always at his weirdest when he's talking about soldiers. talking about war veterans. like he did today. mitt romney gets tonight's "rewrite." lorida. in here, great food demands a great presentation. so at&t showed corporate caterers how to better collaborate by using a mobile solution, in a whole new way. using real-time photo sharing abilities,

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and replace what's inside are covered. so your life can settle right back into place. to learn more, visit libertymutual.com today. another episode of when republican draft dodgers run for president. republican draft dodgers are different than democratic draft dodgers. bill clinton dodged the draft and of course was opposed to the war that he was afraid of getting drafted into. that's the way it was supposed 20 work. mitt romney was afraid of getting drafted into the same

war, the vietnam war, but he joined a demonstration in favor of that war and in favor of the draft. that particular perversion is unique to conservative draft dodgers. in fact, it may be unique to mitt romney who is the weirdest draft dodger who has ever won a major fly party nomination for president. now, don't get me wrong. i completely support draft dodging. it was a good and smart and indeed noble choice under the circumstances during vietnam and it helped speed the end of an unjust and illegal war. but honorable draft dodging required a certain consistency. no honorable draft dodger i know urged other young men to submit to the draft in his place. to go to vietnam in his place. to die in his place. i know of no one other than mitt

romney whose conscious was so twisted. today in ohio, this was by far the weirdest portion of the draft dodger's speech. >> on memorial day i was in san diego and had the privilege of being with a number of veterans. i introduced three of them. one, a second world war vet, was a lookout on the u.s.s. tennessee. he happened to be there on the day of pearl har bop he said his eyes locked on the eyes of the pilot bringing armament, bringing bombardment in to attack his ships. and he was injured in the attack, but he went on to serve for 33 years in the united states navy. i had him stand and be recognized. but i noticed there weren't as many second world war vets as there used to be at memorial days when i was younger. >> the world war ii vets that

romney saw at memorial days when he was younger might be the only world war ii vets he ever saw when he was younger because as we reported here before, romney men do not go to war. romney men do not join the american military. none of mitt romney's sons have joined 37 mitt romney refused to join when he was an able-bodied man. he used four draft deferments to avoid being drafted and his father did not serve in the military either. so in romney world, world war ii vets are an exotic species. but most guys i know who are romney's age woke up every day when they were kids with a world war ii vet in the house. my father was a world war ii vet, my uncle was world war ii vet, all of the fathers in my neighborhood were world war ii vets. 75% of all eligible men served

in world war ii. barack obama grew up in a home where a world war ii vet. his grandfather. but romney world is a world apart frf that chapter of the american experience. romney had more to say today. >> i noticed there aren't as many world war ii vets as there were when i was younger. they're a little older and they can't hold the torch quite as high as they used to. that torch is now going to have to be seized by us, by our generations. it's a torch of freedom and hope and opportunity. it's not america's torch. but it's america's duty and honor to hold that torch high so it can be seen by the world. >> this is our time to seize

that torch of freedom and hope and opportunity. but wait a minute, what else did he say about that torch? >> it's not america's torch. >> what? >> well, if it's not america's torch and we seize it, are we stealing it? and what did he say that the world war ii vets were doing with that torch? >> they can't hold the tormg quite as high as they used to. that torch is now going to have to be seized by us. by our generations. >> okay, okay, i get it, i get it. since romney men don't go to war and apparently don't go to movie, he thinks that soldiers in war carry torches. and romney men are apparently happy to carry torches, especially imaginary torches. of course, no world war ii vet carried a torch in war. they carried guns.

weapons of personal destruction. they carried bayonets. they carried hand granades. they carried things no romney man has ever carried. and with those things, they were carrying those things they were carrying into battle, they did things. that they grew up never wanting to do. never dreaming that they would have to do. most of them couldn't bring themselves to talk about what they did in combat for the rest of their lives. and now the world war ii veterans who are still with us have the pleasure of listening to a draft dodger. talk pure and utter gibberish about some magic torch he thinks they used to carry. >> it's a torch of freedom and hope and opportunity. it's not america's torch, but

it's america's duty and honor to hold that torch high so it can be seen by the world. this is our time. >> you can rewind that and listen to it as much as you want. it's not going to make any sense temperature it is utter nonsensical gibberish. and that's what it sounds like when a republican draft dodger runs for president. dude you don't understand, this is my dad's car. look at the car! my dad's gonna kill me dude... [ male announcer ] the security of a 2012 iihs top safety pick. the volkswagen passat. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 passat for $209 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. ♪

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>> i 50e78 in this race because i care about americans. we have a safety net there.

>> that's mitt romney showing that he knows how to stay out of trouble with the vatican. the vatican chastised the leadership conference of women religious, the largest group of catholic nuns for caring too much about the very poor and not spending enough time crusading against abortion and same-sex marriage. vatican spokesman rush limbaugh put it this way -- >> do you know what the nuns are doing? the nuns have gone feminazi on everybody. this group of nuns is gone feminist and the vatican is obviously, figure of speech, slapping them down. the vatican is trying to tamp it down and say no, no, that doesn't happen. there's no such thing as a feminist nun. >> okay, rush, let me tell you something. i had eight years of the sisters of st. joseph at st. brendan

school in boston and that is not the way to talk to or about nuns. what do you think is nun is going to do when you call her a feminazi, you think she's going to run and hide because rush is mad at her? okay, rush, i know, i know. you're not going to take my advice, so maybe you'll listen to sister simone. joining me now, sister simone campbell, executive director of the national catholic social justice lobby. and lisaling, host of "our america" on own. next week's episode "the brides of christ" a close look at american nuns. sister simone, rush limbaugh just called you a feminazi, i really truly cannot imagine a nun's reaction to that, but please, please let's hear it. >> well, i was actually kind of amused by it because it's so far

from the truth. it's obviously caricature that doesn't apply. we're so much about living a deep spiritual life and serving the needs of the people at the margins of the caring society. it's just amusing. it's also said that we've riled him up and we're being effective because he's getting offended. >> then he got laughs all around between lisa and me and my own personal experience with nuns. li lisa, you've done a very closeup study with nuns like sister simone and others in the country. >> that's right. we spent time with a number of different nuns and there are thousands of different orders. i'm not a particularly religious person, but an irish nun here in los angeles had a huge impact on me. and she's the first person in whom i actually saw god. she's someone who has become a mother figure to transgender

youth. people who have been kicked out of their home. she actually helped me find this young girl working as a prostitute a safe place to stay. and i realized that this is the kind of person, the parallels that i saw between sister margaret and that guy jesus to me were pretty startling. it's interesting the vatican has chose ton reprimand. >> let's hear from sister margaret. we have a piece of tape of your show. let's listen to that. >> many of them have come from homes that are christian homes and they are told they're sinful, they're going to go to hell, they're going to die. many have a lot of deep questions. >> hi. how are you? >> i can't come to church with you this sunday. >> okay. >> but next sunday, i promise. >> some of them have this idea like wow, we didn't think a nun like you would want to be here with us. >> they definitely don't expect me to be around in a pair of jeans and a shirt around the place.

>> it seems like some of the more old fashioned catholics would like you to spend more of your day telling people how they can go to hell. >> well, that's quite a provocative way to put it. i know that i find our life much more enriching if i engage with ways to live more deeply the spiritual values that go to the gospel, the way to be faithful to jesus' call, to respond to the needs of poor and those who are left out. i would leave to god the judging. i just try to live in love. and as we say in our community, live in love for the lord gee zest christ, that's all we try to do. >> now, i know in your advocacy for the poor, the objection you have to the paul ryan budget. i want you to listen to what paul ryan has had to say about the role of ka tholism has played in his budget. >> one of the primary tenants of

catholic social teaching means don't keep people poor. don't make people dependent on government so they stay stuck in their station in life. help them out of poverty into a life of independence. >> your response? >> well, actually that little piece is fine. the problem is, that's the only piece that congressman ryan has. because his answer that is everybody needs to do that individually. and the fact is that the other piece of catholic social teaching that is at the core of this is that we also are all about solidarity and community. and that no one can do this alone. only together as community having each other's backs can anyone move develop, grow, have a life that's full of dignity. paul rye i can't be leaves out the solidarity of community and thinks everyone should just be individualistic. >> lisa, what are some of the surprising things that you learned about nuns.

you didn't know a lot about nuns going into this. >> there are a number of different orders. we spent some time with some young women going into the convent for the first time. and there are fewer young women entering religious life than ever before. but what some of the sisters told me is those young women who are going into it are actually choosing a more conservative life and wanting to wear the habit. it's kind of interesting when you think about culture today. you know, women willive in this culture. ewe are. >> told we can never be pretty enough or skinny enough. and these women are making in some ways the most extreme divisions they can mate and in some ways liberating themselves from those pressures. >> you visited one convent that's really removed from the world as we know it. are they even aware of the tepgss between the vatican and other american nuns out there doing activist work? >> i think they are aware of it. and some of those nuns are very much in line with what the vatican is suggesting. so there are different perspectives, i think, within religious life amongst different

women in religious life. >> you're not going to do with rush limbaugh wants you to do, quiet down and disappear, but you're one of the leaders of the nuns on a bus tour. tell us about that. >> well, it's our attempt to raise up the fallacy in congressman ryan's budget that's been passed by the house. this budget will devastate people who are poor in our country. it completely underadvice ra -- ra -- viscerates money for the special net and shifts it to the wealthy and the pentagon. so the challenge here is going to be on the bus and speaking out in nine states over two weeks to show what the problems are. >> i want you to know, i feel myself in