cnbc chief washington correspondent, john harwood of the "new york times" and the lovely kasie hunt of the associated press. the white house is locking horns with republican leaders in congress today. president obama exerted executive privilege over justice department documents demanded by the house oversight committee. the committee is voting today on whether attorney general eric holder should be held in contempt of congress for refusing to turn over those documents. committee chairman darrell issa said the executive privilege should have been ordered eight months ago when they first requested the material. >> more than eight months after a subpoena and clearly after the question of executive privilege could have and should have been asserted, this untimely assertion by the justice department falls short of any reason to delay today's proceedings. >> joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent, kelly o'donnell.

tell us what this development means as far as the contempt of court vote. >> well, what's happening now is there are really a couple things happening simultaneously. darrell issa, chairman of this committee, says his people are taking a look at this assertion of executive privilege and trying to find out what exactly the president is saying he has this privilege for, which would provide him the ability to have internal discussions. that's the use of that kind of thing to keep the branches, the two branches of government, able to function independently. so what they're doing, there's a front stage/backstage happening here. issa contends the deputy attorney general who sent this letter doesn't have the authority, it's got to come from the president himself. issa says if they can identify specifically documents that the president wants to exclude, he might be willing to separate those and continue forward. so what we have been watching is a wrestling match that's been going on for months. today, it really got intense because they were ready to go forward with this, the surprise of the executive privilege

assertion, republicans on the committee say it should have happened long ago. they raise questions about was the white house involved in this when the attorney general had said he had had no discussions with the president. democrats on this committee say eric holder has not been treated fairly, he's not been treated with respect, that this kind of a step of going for contempt of congress is just too big and too sweeping for someone they believe is honorably serving the public and trying to do the right thing under the law. the other part of this is the real human drama of a border agent who was killed, brian terry. many republicans on this committee say his family deserves answers as to what happened when that atf program of letting guns go into mexico went so wrong that guns ended up being at the crime scene where he was killed. so it's got emotion, it's got politics, it's got high legal arguments that we don't really know where that's all headed, and sometime today we expect there will be a vote to hold the attorney general in contempt of congress. it would have to go to the full house for a vote but this is a

very serious step and we're watching it unfold with a lot of intensity, alex. >> it's got emotion, it's got politics, it's got drama, it's got suspense. why can't it be a hollywood blockbuster. nbc's kelly o'donnell, thank you for the information. my panelists, michael steele, let's talk about the optics of this, the sort of political divide, if you will. this has been a prolonged investigation. darrell issa has received no shortage of criticism from the left and from folks in congress saying this is effectively a witch hunt, you just want to take down holder. i think that has been in some ways buoyed by the fact he has proposed this sort of conspiracy theory around fast and furious, saying this was actually a focus on part of the administration to undermine second amendment rights, get guns into the hands of mexican drug lords, have federal agents killed in the line of fire and then use that to push for more stringent gun control. i wonder what you make of it. >> that's a big theory. >> it is a massive, massive

theory. >> also preposterous. >> massive plan. >> you know, obviously the sort of suspense and drama has racheted up given the new white house involvement on this. i wonder how you think this plays for republicans on whole. >> the optics are not good for the gop, in my estimation. they play actually quite well into obama's rant against the house and against the do-nothing congress. the economy is hemorrhaging, jobs aren't being created at the pace the administration had hoped or the american people had hoped, yet here we are in the muck and mire of another congressional investigation to where? i think the charges with respect to fast and furious are serious ones. certainly the death of an agent cannot be diminished in any respect. but to have this sort of devolve into the political realm and become this sort of hyperextended conversation that leads to what, a vote of no confidence, it just to me gets

off track. it's off message. a number of hill republicans are saying that very quietly. they appreciate the drama but they don't want it now. they would have other drama right now to talk about the economy, and mitt romney is eerily silent on this, as well he should be. this is not something -- this is not a conversation he wants to have right now about whether darrell issa is doing the nation's business when he's trying -- >> i will say, though, and we have certainly gotten some push-back from hill republicans when it has been said that look, house leadership does not like this, they don't like the direction this is going in, it's worth noting that some prominent hill republicans have said now that the white house is involved, it's sort of an opening on to president obama, which is something that house republicans are always looking for. chuck grassley in a statement says the assertion of executive privilege raises monumental questions. how can the president assert executive privilege if there was

no white house involvement? how can the president exert executive privilege over documents he supposedly has never seen. is something very big being hidden to go to this extreme. john harwood? conspiracy theory part two. >> well, look, that's the republican argument, but serious issue, serious investigation, the oversight responsibility of congress is important but the ratio of politics to substance has gotten so high that as michael was just saying, it's become counterproductive. all the republican leadership is today now having to sort of fall in line on the republican side of the argument. john boehner put out a statement criticizing what the administration had done, suggesting the administration had been lying earlier by saying the white house was not involved in some of the key decisions, but i think one of the interesting questions is going to be after this plays out in the next 24 hours, what sort of pressure will leadership, will the romney campaign, put, which

is increasingly taking a role of defining the republican party in this election year. you notice what mitch mcconnell said the other day. we're waiting for mitt romney to tell us what our position's going to be on immigration. he's now the leader of our party. >> they will be waiting a long time. >> is he going to exert some pressure on darrell issa, who of course has never really liked public attention. he's always sort of shied away from the cameras. can they convince him to follow his natural instincts and step off stage. >> kasie, you're an intrepid campaign reporter. you have been on the romney bus, finding out how high the trees are in michigan. what do you think as far as how team romney handles this and we know the relationship between house leadership in the republican party and mitt romney is quite close. >> sure. one thing i will tell you after having been on this bus tour for five days, this is not something the voters are talking about in pennsylvania and ohio and wisconsin and iowa. they're talking about jobs and

the economy. the romney campaign knows that's what they want to talk about, what they need to talk about if they're actually going to be successful in november. >> can mitt romney make the call? can he call darrell issa and say let's put -- i mean, to what degree is that relationship warm enough that he can really sort of shape the agenda on the hill? >> let's just say -- >> can anyone call darrell issa? >> if romney is on the phone with darrell issa he certainly has no interest in letting anybody know about it. >> interesting. we would like to know about it if anybody does know about it. coming up, vice president joe biden rallies the base with another fiery speech about the economy and the middle class. we look at campaign optics and new ads with the executive director of the dnc, next. [ male announcer ] considering all your mouth goes through,

do you really think brushing is enough to keep it clean? while brushing misses germs in 75% of your mouth, listerine cleans virtually your entire mouth. so take your oral health to a whole new level. listerine... power to your mouth. yoo-hoo. hello. it's water from the drinking fountain at the mall. [ male announcer ] great tasting tap water can come from any faucet anywhere. the brita bottle with the filter inside.  [ male announcer ] great tasting tap water can come from any faucet anywhere. you can't argue with nutrition you can see. great grains. great grains cereal starts whole and stays whole. see the seam? more processed flakes look nothing like natural grains. i'm eating what i know is better nutrition.

mmmm. great grains. search great grains and see for yourself. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about that 401(k) you picked up back in the '80s. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like a lot of things, the market has changed, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and your plans probably have too. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so those old investments might not sound so hot today. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we'll give you personalized recommendations tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 on how to reinvest that old 401(k) tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and help you handle all of the rollover details. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and bring your old 401(k) into the 21st century. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news.

that's what being a middle class person is. that's not asking too much. we owe you. you shouldn't be vilified. you provide the safe neighborhoods. you provide the good schools. you provide the school lunch program. you provide the day care centers. you provide the hospitals. you provide the ability of people to live a decent middle class life. >> that was one fired-up vice president joe biden yesterday in los angeles. his comments come as good news, greeted the president on his return from the g-20 summit. a new bloomberg news survey gives the president a 13-point edge on mitt romney in the general election. however, we should note the percentage of nonwhite respondents was 5% to 6% higher in this poll than normal which may have boosted the president's numbers. the poll also found 45% of voters say they're better off since the president took office

while 36% say they are worse off. three months split on that question. one respondent from michigan said i'm just tired of the doom and gloom. i think it's looking better. people just need to stay positive. joining us now is patrick gaspard, executive director of the democratic national committee. great to see you. >> great to be here, alex. >> two things to unpack there. one is what does joe biden have for an afternoon snack to get that fired up but also, does the president need to channel more of that energy, and the other thing is, what that voter said. i'm tired of the doom and gloom, people need to stay positive. the president has been laying out a very stark contrast between his economic policies, his vision for the country and that of the republicans. a lot of that is gloomy and doomy. what do you make of those two things? >> first on joe biden, i don't think the president could have a more passionate advocate and more importantly, i don't think that working class americans could have a more tireless fighter. you showed him speaking at the convention and coming on the heels of mitt romney vilifying

police officers, firefighters and teachers. i think it's appropriate that the vice president was driving a very sharp and impassioned contrast. >> fast and furious part four with joe biden. >> we have to channel our inner vin diesel. >> but to the positive message, ezra, i will let you say it, you're skeptical of these poll numbers. >> this poll, listen, the polling shows, i have a role. i look at polli ining averages. one out of 20 just by the law of sampling is going to be very, very wrong so i look at an average of polls. right now this morning before that poll barack obama was up by 0.8% in the polls. he has a slight lead. that's been bouncing around from 1% to 3% the last couple months. he is not at this moment, we have no reason to believe he's up by 13 points. doesn't mean he's not leading but we should be careful when a poll comes out showing wildly

different results to keep it in effect. if tomorrow five more polls come out like that, great. >> but the reality is at this stage of the game, it's june. 4th of july is in a couple weeks, summer vacations. it's meaningless. polls mean nothing right now. it's just money that's being made by pollsters who are going around to folks saying hey, you want me to take the pulse of the people? it's a good gig until you get to labor day. the polls then begin to matter more when people -- >> i'll say this. we have the same temperament we had in 2008. we're not going to ride up and down the poller coaster. >> that's really good. >> we would be the first to say this contest is going to be close to the end but the one interesting thing i would highlight about that bloomberg poll is the gender gap we see. there's a 16 point gap there. it does mirror what we have seen in other national polling and certainly polling in the battleground states. i would also lift up the sense of the respondents that mitt romney is profoundly out of

touch with the interests of middle class voters, something else we see reflected in polls in colorado, michigan, et cetera. i think perhaps the spread is beyond what other polls show but it certainly mirrors in those two metrics important trends we are seeing. >> there are elements, absolutely, in any poll that you can tag from one poll to the next that may be consistent with an underlying theme but the reality of it is where the voters are right now is nowhere focused on this campaign, to the degree that they will be come september and october, where these polls, to ezra's point, really begin to put in perspective and focus -- >> at the ballot box. that said, summer vacation aside from being a time when men are allowed to wear chinos on friday or whatever that rule is, is it time -- >> i appreciate that. >> it's wednesday but you're michael steele. you're notorious. there's a time to hone the message, right? and i want to focus on what that voter said about the gloom and doom and like how each campaign

is sort of figuring out what sticks. kasie, we know that the mitt romney team has taken a much more aggressive posture in terms of heckling the president. the stuff that happened in the rose garden was not part of the romney campaign but certainly the romney bus was driving around the president's speech last week. they have defended the heckling. i wonder what you make of that sort of pivot to a more aggressive posture. >> remember, romney's bus tour, democrats followed him throughout that whole thing and there was heckling at each of the stops. there were competing press conferences that the obama campaign was helping put information out about. what romney said about it is we are not going to unilaterally disarm. he sort of got this competitive posture when he said that, like okay, if david axelrod is willing to drop his heckling, maybe he will drop it but he's certainly not going to do it first. i think we will see more and more of this. >> does that work -- >> david axelrod didn't heckle mitt romney. >> he in fact -- >> we would never encourage anyone to heckle mitt romney or

his surrogates. it's conduct unbecoming. >> axelrod did say this is not something he wants to do but on the other hand, the campaign was helping to sort of distribute information about -- >> does that work for mitt romney? the heckling? >> of course it does. it always works to the candidate's advantage when you've got someone, antagonist in the audience. we saw with the president in the wayward question, how people kind of rallied around this idea, you know, respecting the president and all of that. the same is true for a candidate like mitt romney. if there's heckling, the dnc sends out a team of folks and they're standing there, they're supposed to be good and someone gets so revved up and says "you lie" so -- >> well, yeah. >> that's a move for republicans in congress. >> can i just go back to your question, alex? we're finding what you highlighted that one voter said i think from michigan. we're finding when we go out and have conversations with folks in virginia and elsewhere, they're concerned about jobs and the

economy and they have a sense that though things are not where they would like them to be, they know the president helped grow the public sector by 4.3 million jobs in the last few months. i was having a conversation in virginia today and folks seem to be aware that he inherited -- >> in theory, but an inherent part of the message, but saying look, this is the path the republicans want to take you down, there's a negativity there that's a fundamental part of the president's message. >> this is what i thought was interesting about biden's speech. in another clip or another part of it, he said you don't tell me, speaking to republicans, what your values are. you show me your budget and i'll tell you what you values are. i thought that was, in terms of what you guys are going to be saying, what president obama was saying earlier in the week about his reframing speech, that seems to be where they are going because jobs numbers are bouncing around badly, we seem to be losing steam in the recovery but the core message seems to be the obama campaign is putting out right now, that

biden is putting out, if you look at where we want to take the country and you look at the ryan budget, not what republicans say what they have put on paper, you prefer our approach. >> you are right. we are trying to have a valuable conversation with the american voters but i would go one step further. it's not just about the proposed ryan budget. we're asking americans to examine mitt romney's record when he was governor of massachusetts and when he was at the private equity firm bain, when he outsourced jobs -- >> in fact -- >> -- that reflects the crisis we find ourselves in. >> that's a beautiful thing coming from your side and i hear it and feel it -- >> you feel it? >> i feel what you're saying. >> we're making progress. >> let me tell you what i'm feeling. what i'm feeling is the fact that at least paul ryan had the chutzpah to put a budget out there for the nation to debate. we haven't seen it from the senate democrats who stonewalled and obfuscated and blamed and

cajoled and basically talked trash about nothing. we haven't seen it from the white house who had the golden, the diamond in the rough sitting in their grasp, simpson-bowles and tossed it aside. >> the one paul ryan voted against. >> it doesn't matter what paul ryan -- >> ezra -- >> it doesn't matter -- >> let me finish my point so you know where i'm going. the fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter what paul ryan voted against or voted for. paul ryan put something on the table. the white house hasn't and the democrats haven't. so to now get back and say we created 4.3 million jobs, that's preposterous. [ speaking simultaneously ] >> talk about the budget for one second. i read all of paul ryan's budget and all the obama budgets. there is frankly vastly more specificity, this is not even really arguable, in the obama's budgets. paul ryan says he will do tax reform, medicare reform, it will be automatic cuts if it doesn't work. he says he will do massive

discretionary cuts bringing everything the government does that's not entitlements down to less than 3% gdp, doesn't say where those cuts are going to come from. then they say, by the way, the democrats cut medicare, have done rationing. we can have this argument but there are two budgets on the table. >> the only budget, only proposal we have is a $5 trillion hole in the deficit. >> we are talking about the president's budget the democrats voted against. >> let's talk about the president's job plan. >> well, we are not going to stop hearing about the paul ryan budget. its lack of specificity or its overly specific amoral qualities. >> what was that? >> i'm just trying to wrap the segment. the dnc's patrick gaspard, thank you, sir. hope to have you back soon. after the break, the defense rests in the jerry sandusky trial. we'll have a live report with the details.

so anyway, i've been to a lot of places. you know, i've helped a lot of people save a lot of money. but today...( sfx: loud noise of large metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of piano smashing) roadrunner: meep meep. meep meep?

(sfx: loud thud sound) what a strange place. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. perfect golden color. rich in fiber. my dad taught me, and i taught my son out there. morning, pa. wait... who's driving the...? ♪ 99 bushels of wheat on the farm, 99 bushels of wheat ♪ [ male announcer ] yep, there's 8 filling layers of whole grain fiber in those fun little biscuits...

so they stick with you, all morning long. kellogg's® mini-wheats cereal. [ mini ] yee haw! a big breakfast in a little biscuit. throughout our entire lives. ♪ one a day women's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. ♪ it has more of seven antioxidants to support cell health. that's one a day women's 50+ healthy advantage. [ male announcer ] ok, so you're no marathon man. but thanks to the htc one x from at&t, with its built in beats audio, every note sounds amazingly clear. ...making it easy to get lost in the music... and, well... rio vista?!!

[ male announcer ] ...lost. introducing the musically enhanced htc one x from at&t. rethink possible. lawyers for jerry sandusky have rested their case. the former penn state assistant football coach is charged with 51 counts of abusing ten boys over a 15-year period. the jury of seven women and five men will start deliberations as soon as tomorrow. nbc's michael isikoff is live at the courthouse in bellefonte with the details. michael? >> well, there was a lot of tension in that courtroom today, a lot of anticipation that jerry sandusky was going to take the stand in his own defense. all the signals pointed that he wanted to, he wanted to explain himself. the defense didn't have a lot of

other witnesses to rebut the prosecution's testimony, and that at 11:00, we had a recess, we had a recess until 11:00, then went back into the courtroom. we all expected sandusky was going to take the stand and then we waited about ten minutes. his lawyers called sandusky off into a conference room just outside the courtroom, then they walked out, called him back into the judge's chambers and we waited for about 40 minutes. joe amendola comes out, the jury gets seated and joe amendola says the defense rests. why sandusky ultimately decided not to go through with it, to play it safe, we don't know, but we do know he looked very sober, very chastened when he came out of the judge's chambers. >> thank you, sir. we will certainly be following that as it develops. coming up, ben bernanke, super hero or super villain? depends on which side of the aisle you're on. we will talk fed, fed, fed, next.

with the spark miles card from capital one, thor's couture gets the most rewards of any small business credit card. your boa! [ garth ] thor's small business earns double miles on every purchase, every day! ahh, the new fabrics, put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? the spiked heels are working. wait! [ garth ] great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? [ cheers and applause ] if you made a list of countries from around the world... ...with the best math scores. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class.

let's solve this.

more than 50 times a day? so brighten your smile a healthy way with listerine® whitening plus restoring rinse. it's the only rinse that makes your teeth two shades whiter and two times stronger. ♪ listerine® whitening... power to your mouth. to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees.

[ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! i want to get rid of the fed but also, i don't want to get rid of the fed tomorrow. what i want to do is have competition with the fed and let the fed self-destruct. >> that was congressman ron paul today on "morning joe" renewing his call to get rid of the federal reserve. right now, the fed is very much alive and is meeting in washington to decide whether to continue doing the twist. mark zandi is the chief economist with moody's and joins us now. mark was chief economic advisor for the mccain campaign in 2008. thanks for joining us. >> thank you very much for having me. >> mark, we know there's a decision that is imminent as far as interest rates the fed is going to be making decisions at 12:30. what do you expect out of the fed today in light of the weak job growth in recent months? >> i think they'll do another

twist. i probably should wait another few seconds to find out actually what they do do. >> live tv. just go for it. >> all right. thank you so much. my guess is they'll do another round of twist. it's not qe, not the big step it would require and i think they should hold on to that if things go badly wrong. i don't think doing nothing is appropriate either because the economy is soft and could use some help. my sense is they do another operation twist. >> operation of twist of course does not increase the federal balance sheet. quantitative easing or qe does. ezra, i know you love talking monetary policy. you're so psyched. we are getting news the rates are unchanged. that is the news. >> the rates are about as low as they can possibly be. >> indeed they are. we came into this with a piece of sound from ron paul talking about getting rid of the fed, and how politicized the fed has gotten, whether ron paul or, you

know, rick perry earlier in the campaign cycle talking about wanting to kneecap ben bernanke. there's broad consensus, however, that he does play a very -- fairly outsized role in terms of the economy, the health of the american economy, the recovery and therefore, president obama's re-election. >> it's not just consensus. ben bernanke is the most important single economic policy maker in the united states of america. there's no argument about that. he's incredibly consequential. and it's been an interesting divide right now because he's done quite a bit. he did an enormous amount during the depths of the crisis, has done somewhat less as the recovery has gone on. there's been an argument about whether or not he should do more, but my colleague watching his recent testimony before the joint economics committee and what he noticed, speaking to ron paul, there was an enormous amount of pressure from republicans saying don't do more. we want you to go to the markets. one actually said this, the ranking republican on the committee said you should go to the markets sha, say we have do too much and stop. there was no corresponding

pressure from the democrats saying do more, you're the only figure who can pursue more stimulus. we believe you have that capacity. we are going to pressure you to give you cover or just urge you to be using that. so if you just look at the political incentives of the fed, staying where they are makes perfect sense. >> mark, what do you make of what ezra was saying about the politicization of the fed and the fact there is such an extreme push from the right, not a commensurate push from the left but that is not supposed to be a political organization at all, it doesn't have any ties to the political climate, yet it has become highly contentious sort of discussion point in this current race. >> yeah, but i think at the end of the day the fed is making decisions that are independent of the political process. i think they're looking at the data, seeing what's going on in europe and the risk that poses to our economy and are making up their own minds. so you know, there's a lot of things going on around them, lot of people with very strong opinions, and that's appropriate

given that the fed is now doing things that they have never done historically. it's very appropriate to have these discussions in the base. but at the end of the day, i think the fed is doing exactly what it needs to do and is fo s focused on the economy, not the politics. >> some key players in the fed, charlie evans, president of the chicago federal reserve, they have really argued aggressively they should be doing significantly more. they laid out i think a very sensible plan for how you do more. it's just been remarkable that they are sort of keeping those plans in their pocket. unemployment is very elevated, not coming down quickly. it's been very, very difficult for me to understand how from their perspective if they believe there is more they can do, there's not a sufficiently hair on fire kind of moment for them to actually do it. >> well, i think there's costs and benefits of doing anything and at this point, given that the economy is growing, it's soft but it is growing, given that inflation is low but it's pretty close to target and given that the financial markets, they've got a lot of things to

worry about but they're doing okay, given all that, it probably doesn't make sense given the economics to be very aggressive. the other thing i would say is, i think this is on their minds and thinking, they can only go to the well so many times and each time they go to the well, each time they do quantitative easing and expand the balance sheet, it becomes less effective. we have done it twice and there's now growing evidence that the second round was not quite as effective as the first. i think they would want to wait in case something happens and you really need it, then they can use it and it will be more effective at this point. >> i hate to break in quickly. we are getting this news in from the federal reserve right now. the fed is extending the operation twist program with $267 billion more through december to drive long-term rates down. the program is scheduled to end this month. the fed also notes that hiring has weakened and consumer spending is rising more slowly. john harwood, you wanted to get in there. >> yeah, i had another question -- >> can i say, john, by the way, i was expecting $263 billion. not $267 billion.

>> nice. >> close but no cigar, zandi. >> mark, this is a question playing off of the clip we heard from ron paul earlier and our discussion of that. it is my impression and i wonder about yours as somebody who buys john mccain in 2008, the last thing that mitt romney wants to do apart from some yapping during the campaign, if he becomes president, is to kneecap the federal reserve or do anything approaching what ron paul was talking about. you agree with me? >> oh, yeah, absolutely. it makes no sense to go down that path. one of the best things that our country ever did was set up the federal reserve in 1913, completely independent of the political process. that is a cornerstone of our financial system and our economy and we have to preserve that. so i think it's very, very important to make sure, especially if you're going to be president of the united states, that you maintain that independence because at the end of the day, that's very

important in making this all work reasonably well. i should point out, i think you said i was chief economic advisor. i wasn't. i was just an advisor on the campaign. >> we just like inflating titles around here. >> separating himself from john mccain there. >> no, no, that wasn't my intent. doug have have a problem with this. >> speaking to the romney question, let's play a little bit of sound as romney does his delicate ballet around the issue of quantitative easing and the fed. this is from his interview on sunday with bob schieffer. let's take a listen. >> politicians in office want to do everything they can just before an election to try and temporarily boost something but the potential threat down the road of inflation is something which we have to be aware of, and at the last qe 2, the last monetary stimulus did not put americans back to work, did not raise our home values. what's wrong with our economy is that our government has been warring against small, middle and large businesses, and people

in the business world are afraid to make investments and to hire people. >> kasie, i go to you for all the inside the romney mind. we talked about specifics and to what degree mitt romney is going to have to get specific one way or another before november. what do you make of that in terms of a fiscal policy and more broadly, economic policy, how much more gas is he going to put in the car before he drives into november? >> as far as the federal reserve thing goes, to mark's point, yes, it is outside the political process but it's very much an issue with the republican base, particularly folks who have been supportive of ron paul. even sarah palin jumped on the qe 2 band wagon. he has to walk this careful line of pulling himself back towards the middle while still not saying anything that's going to alienate those folks or keep them from turning out for him in november. >> mark zandi, unfortunately, we have to leave it there. but thank you for helping us all understand that qe 2 is not just a luxury liner that sails the atlantic ocean. thank you, sir, for your time

and expertise and very spot-on predictions. after the break, a nation on the brink. does egypt's latest election show that populism doesn't necessarily lead to democracy? former assistant secretary of state p.j. crowley joins the panel next. emily's just starting out... and on a budget. like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. see how much you could save with allstate. are you in good hands? a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band.

there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next? ♪ you walk into a conventional mattress store, it's really not about you. they say, "well, if you wanted a firm bed you can lie on one of those. if you want a soft bed you can lie on one of those." what we do is, we provide the exact individualization that your body needs. never tried this before. this is your body there. you can see a little more pressure in the shoulders and in the hips. now you can feel what happens as we raise your sleep number setting and allow the bed to contour to your individual shape. oh wow, that feels really good. it's hugging my body. take it up one notch. oh gosh, yes. when you're playing around with that remote, you get

that moment where you go, "oh yeah" oh, yeah! and it's perfect. they had no idea that when they came to a sleep number store, we were going to diagnose their problems and help them sleep better. once you experience it, there's no going back. wow. wow. and right now, during our summer sleep sale, save $500 on our exceptional p6 bed set. find your sleep number. only at the sleep number store, where queen mattresses start at just $699. it's time to live wider awake. only the beautyrest recharge sleep system combines the comfort of aircool memory foam layered on top of beautyrest pocketed coils

to promote proper sleeping posture all night long. the revolutionary recharge sleep system... from beautyrest. it's you, fully charged. diarrhea, gas or bloating? get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. there are mixed reports about the health of former egyptian president hosni mubarak. initially it was believed that he was on life support but his lawyer says today that mubarak is on a respirator and being treated for a blood clot at a military amid rising political uncertainty in egypt. yesterday, tens of thousands of people gathered in tahrir square protesting military rule and this past weekend's disputed elections.

joining the panel now is former assistant secretary of state, p.j. crowley. p.j., what to make of the conflicting reports about mubarak's health and to what degree is that fueling some of the protests and sort of the uprisings in tahrir square? >> he's in declining health and his political career obviously is in steep decline. he was humiliated publicly by the trial earlier this year, the life sentence that he's received. i think most egyptians are focused on the life and death of the regime that he once led. he's not, i don't think, a significant factor in what's going on now. >> i was talking about this earlier today. i thought a really interesting assessment of what happened in the middle east and the confusion i think in some parts of the west with populism with democracy. let's take a listen. >> not every populous

revolutions a democratic revolution. for it to be a democratic revolution, you have to have enlightened democratic leadership and some traditional sense of constitutionalism. what we're dealing with in egypt is a revolution against dictatorship, against corruption and so forth, but it's also infused with a great deal of religious fervor. >> we talk about the administration's response to events unfolding in the middle east, specifically syria, and i wonder to what degree you think they may keep egypt in the back of their mind as they try and figure out the delicate dance, the very difficult situation in syria and how best to tackle it. >> well, sure, and egypt is a telling case with regard to syria, because you could topple a dictator but now the regime can live beyond that. i think that's the contest in egypt right now. this will unfold over a number of weeks. the first challenge is okay, the military says it will turn over

power to a civilian government at the end of this month, is it the full loaf, half a loaf, then how do you replace the parliament that has been dissolved by the supreme court, who will control the writing of the constitution, will it be the military which they hinted in the decree, or will it be the president once he's seated, then how will the muslim brotherhood govern and will there be these back room deals because you're dealing with a contest between the two most significant institutions in egyptian society, the military on the one hand, muslim brotherhood on the other. >> john, from the white house perspective, the president of course just returned from the g-20, there are two big issues on the table. one is the euro zone but vis a vis syria, he did a lot of sort armchair psychology relating to his relationship with russian president vladimir putin and the sort of, i keep saying difficult dance but it applies to each thing we talk about, u.s.

relations with russia and u.s. relations with china, and then of course, relations between russia and china. how would you score the president in terms of dealing with putin, dealing with hu jintao, especially on issues that concern human rights? >> the most important thing was he did not get vladimir putin to sign on to the idea that assad needs to go. putin came out in his press conference last night and said that's a choice for the syrian people to make. how do the syrian people make a choice under these circumstances. russia is -- syria is russia's ally in the middle east. they are not abandoning them right now. we have heard these reports about not only refurbished helicopters but russian marines heading toward syria. i think it's an extremely difficult situation, as p.j. said. egypt is an object lesson that you can think you're winning but you don't know long-term or how durable that victory will be because these generals could

reverse the results of the uprising there. so i think it's a difficult situation. you can't call it a success. >> you mentioned that putin came out in his press conference and said look -- he didn't say i am effectively not convinced that action needs to be taken, but almost walked back the comments that president obama had made saying i think we've gotten putin to sort of see more clearly that something needs to be done in syria. i wonder, p.j., from your perspective, is putin going to be movable on syria? >> well, putin is pursuing russian national interest. if you look over the past 20 years or so, the russian position in the middle east has been in decline. every country that has turned over has come at the expense of a russian client state. that's why syria is far more important right now to russia than it is to the united states. it's an important interest to the united states. putin is interpreting it as a vital interest to russia. and he asked the right question, what happens after assad. i think there's room over time

for putin to be potentially assured, this gets back to egypt, that the regime may hold even if the leader, you know, is transitioned out and offered exile in a place like russia. >> people have talked about whether or not russia could in effect take a leading role in envisioning what the next syria will be after assad and that could be the incentive they would need. >> that's problematic for the united states because you do have interests like maintaining a relationship with the egyptian military which has worked effectively over the last 30 years or so, but this commitment to democracy and to meet the aspirations of the egypt people, so the united states may find itself in an odd situation where it ends up backing the muslim brotherhood and civilian governance at the expense of its traditional interests. >> nobody ever said foreign policy was not a chess game. this will certainly bear that out. p.j. crowley, thank you for your time. coming up, first dude todd palin gets set to earn his

stripes on reality tv with a retired army general. we will explain what that's all about next. coming up next on "andrea mitchell reports," the fast and furious showdown on the hill heats up. a legal showdown over executive privilege versus house republicans going after eric holder with claims of contempt of congress. pete williams and chris cillizza will be here. also, the latest from egypt on hosni mubarak's condition and the power struggle over the presidency. and meet david brody on mitt romney's strategy for wing over the conservatives. i want healthy skin for life. [ female announcer ] improve the health of your skin with aveeno daily moisturizing lotion. the natural oatmeal formula improves skin's health in one day, with significant improvement in 2 weeks. i found a moisturizer for life. [ female announcer ] only from aveeno. begins with back pain and a choice.

take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye. which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. you do a lot of kayakingno. whoooa i'm in a river. what are some good kayaking words? like...rapids? look, i'm going through the rapids. ok. i'll take it. new offers in new places so you can try new things. sync your american express card with facebook, foursquare, and twitter to find savings. that's the membership effect of american express. yoo-hoo. hello. it's water from the drinking fountain at the mall.

[ male announcer ] great tasting tap water can come from any faucet anywhere. the brita bottle with the filter inside.

welcome back. time for "what now." four star general and former nato supreme allied commander for europe, wesley clark, is taking on a new challenging role, host of a tv reality show.

"stars earn stripes" premieres in august on nbc. michael steele, among the cast, todd palin, bocking champ leila ali, dean cain, nick lachey. what do we make of this? >> can i pass? look, this is what we've come to in our culture where allied commander's now doing reality tv. with all due respect to all the other cast members, i just don't get the wesley clark piece. i think there are other things that he should be doing. >> you're just saying that because he's a democrat. >> no. i would say it for colin powell or anyone else who wore the stripes. >> whose stock fluctuates the most? todd palin's or wesley clark's? does todd palin get a little lift off this? >> i think it's cross-programming here, where you've got todd palin's going to have a certain core of folks who

will gravitate towards him being there. wesley clark, the democrats, those who are in that mode, so it's television, folks. it's tv. >> it's tv, folks. >> can i change the subject for one second? i never stop being a reporter. i know people talk about msnbc going left but it appears to me that you have a mitt tattoo on your left hand? >> that's not a tattoo. i actually have to return a baseball mitt. i'm hoping there will be all sorts of -- >> that's the story. >> that doesn't sound very likely. >> it's fairly obvious i'm totally in the tank. i have to return a baseball mitt to my dad. that's the real dope. i know ezra and kasie have already set their dvrs for the wesley clark show. thanks again to all of you. ezra, michael, john and kasie. that is all for now. see you tomorrow back in new york at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific when i am joined by mark halpern, michael eric dyson and ari melber.

"andrea mitchell reports" is next. good afternoon. it is always so good to be in the same city with you. thank you. right across the room. thanks so much. executive privilege and contempt of congress. pete williams and chris cillizza here with the latest on the fast and furious debate. the fed weighs in on interest rates, next on "andrea mitchell reports." let's take a paint project from "that looks hard" to "that didn't take long". let's break out behr ultra...

...the number one selling paint and primer in one, now with stain blocker. each coat works three times harder, priming, covering, and blocking stains. let's go where no paint has gone before, and end up some place beautiful. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. behr ultra. now with advanced stain blocking, only at the home depot, and only $31.98 a gallon.

wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together, you get quality services on your terms with total customer support. legalzoom documents are accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so, go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense. in here, every powerful collaboration is backed by an equally powerful and secure cloud.

that cloud is in the network, so it can deliver all the power of the network itself. bringing people together to develop the best ideas -- and providing the apps and computing power to make new ideas real. it's the cloud from at&t. with new ways to work together, business works better. ♪ the attorney general has refused to cooperate, offering to provide subpoenaed documents only if the committee agrees in advance to close the investigation. no investigator would ever agree to that. >> mr. chairman, it did not have to be this way. it really didn't. we could have postponed today's vote, accepted the attorney general's offer and worked with the department to obtain additional documents and information.