we asked you what you could possibly doing up this hour. from our producer what backyard at 4:00 a.m. to beat the heat. >> i bet your neighbors love you first of all. as somebody who landscaped for three summers, these days, these are the days you call in sick. brutal out there. good luck today. it's going to be 100. "morning joe" starts right now. 4. president obama, mitt romney and even joe biden have been trying out a new batch of slogans. i don't think they're there quite yet. >> maybe i wasn't born in this country but i'll sign up to fight for it. >> i'm not a person of core values. i don't have a core. >> take whatever you can from whom ever you can. >> guess what? i made a lot of money. >> we can't do it. we can't do it. >> i believe that america is

just another place on the map with a flag. >> i declare i'm a total bumbling idiot. >> guess who's going to pay that? not me. i'm gone. >> forget about your [ bleep ] dignity. forget about all that stuff. >> if you got a shirt on, as you -- the guys in the room at least do and the gals have tops, i guess you call them. >> i don't quite get this. >> i'm not familiar with precisely exactly what i said but i stand by what i said, whatever it was. >> i'm so ashamed. i am so ashamed. >> good morning. it's thursday, june 21st. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have national affairs editor from "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst john heilemann is here. >> hi. >> also msnbc -- >> good morning. >> good morning. contributor mike mancle. -- barnicle. >> yes. >> hello.

>> she got some e-mails about you yesterday. >> yes, i did. >> people don't like you. >> not true. >> sort of a piggish thing. >> people love mike barnicle. >> and willie. >> not some ladies that i know. >> confounds me but they do. >> it was a little creepy. >> it was. >> it was a little creepy. >> perusing the magazine. >> drooling and acting like a -- whatever. it's a new day. >> is that what they're calling it these days, perusing. >> that's not what ann called it last night when i got home. >> how is willie? >> he's good. >> willie good? >> yeah. >> i did. deeply. deeply. >> "the new york times" reporting this morning that a small number of cia officers are operating secretly within southern turkey. >> they're helping allies determine which syrian rebels are given weapons to fight syrian government forces. the weapons range from automatic rifles to rocket-propelled

grenades and are being supplied to fighters across the turkish border. according to american officials the cia has been in southern turkey for several weeks in part to keep these weapons from falling into the hands of al qaeda. >> so it looks like we're doing something, according to this lead story in "the new york times," that we're doing something. >> well. >> over there. >> covertly. >> covertly. >> covertly. >> trying to figure out who the good guys are there. >> which is not an easy task. >> not easy at all. >> small militias fighting village to village. i'm not sure how they're determining who to arm exactly. this what is mitt romney has proposed proposed. >> no easier to find the good guys in the syrian opposition than in the miami heat. you go with what you got. >> your nightmare becomes real when the streamers come down. >> i don't know. here's a good thing. you know, you know, if oklahoma city takes it tonight and it's

3-2, suddenly lebron's walking off the court and he's going into the tunnel, you know he tinkles a little in his pants. he does. because you know lebron, he gets a little nervous. >> tinkles. >> he ain't larry byrd or magic johnson. >> or michael jordan. >> or michael jordan. who doesn't even compare to magic johnson or larry bird. but you know that lebron starts freaking out a little bit. >> oh, yeah. >> and he knows, you're going to lose game six and then -- and then it's time to get the oops i crapped my pants they advertise on "saturday night live." >> what's wrong with him? >> because it's lebron. you know he's not going to do well. >> that was a great sketch, by the way. iced tea. >> that was one of the best "saturday night live" sketches ever. >> can i continue with news? >> it's going to be a true story for lebron james if they lose

tonight. all the pressure is actually, mike, all the pressure on miami tonight. >> you know something, i have so little interest. i mean this is -- you know, it's going to be 100 degrees today in the east coast. >> yeah. >> still playing basketball. >> we heard this story yesterday. >> i'm moving on now. >> dead wrong. >> quiet. president obama has asserted the first executive privilege of his administration, setting off a fight with congressional republicans who are claiming election year overreach by the president. the white house moved to protect attorney general eric holder from a year-long investigation by shielding documents on the government's botched sting operation known as fast and furious. despite the president's move the house oversight committee voted along party lines to recommend attorney general holder be held in contempt for failing to produce documents showing when the administration knew there were problems with the operation. for weeks the department of justice and the house committee have been at odds over what

information could be released. the white house argues that attorney general holder has been cooperative, offering up over 7,000 documents and testifying nine times. republicans say that the administration is trying to hide information, while democrats say this is just an election year political ploy. >> this is not about eric holder. it is about the department of justice and justice in the united states of america. have the guts, i hope we have the guts and the perseverance to get to the bottom of this. >> it shouldn't be a political witch hunt against the attorney general of our country and our president in an election year. >> it's painful to sit here and watch it turn into a partisan political theater and unnecessary it moves in that direction. >> now the president of the united states has claimed executive privilege. that brings into question whether or not eric holder knew about it and how much did the this? >> house speaker john boehner issued a statement, quote,

saying the white house decision to invoke executive privilege implies that white house officials were either involved in the fast and furious operation or the cover-up that followed. the administration has always insisted that wasn't the case. were they lying or are they now bending the law to hide the truth? this is president obama's first use of executive privilege. president george w. bush had six, president clinton exceeded all modern presidents with 14, in 2007, then senator obama criticized the bush administration for using executive privilege to protect adviser karl rove from ke testifying about the firing of nine federal prosecutors. remember that. >> there's been a tendency on the part of this administration to try to hide behind executive privilege every time there's something a little shaky that's taking place. and i think, you know, the administration would be best served by coming clean on this. >> yeah. >> the entire house will convene

to vote on holder next week. if holder is found in contempt he would be the first u.s. attorney general to be held in contempt of congress. >> show the numbers of the president and the executive orders and take a second because willie is our -- willie, of course, t.j. our director, bill clinton 14. >> yeah. >> and what was so shocking was number 12, remember. boxers or briefs. >> cut it out. >> he claimed executive privilege on boxers or briefs. >> unfortunately he did at the mtv town hall. it was an important moment in presidential history. >> and then they asked him again impeopachment and take it back. john heilemann, say you're a down middle report and not an avowed marxist that smokes too much dope in your brooklyn flat at night. >> it's going to take a lot of pretending but we'll try. >> okay. >> fantasy land i'm giving you

artistic -- >> i'm pretrending to be donny deutsch is what you're saying. >> try to explain to me why the republicans have a good point here on this fast and furious issue. >> i'll try to pretend you're a straight down the middle reporter and explain the republican's best point on why holder should be held in contempt. >> i don't know that i think i can on contempt. i think, you know, the notion that -- i can make the case for why republicans, you know, this was a program that went bad. >> right. >> and you can make the argument -- >> let me stop you there. programs like these, stings. >> yes. >> go bad all the time do they not? >> they do. >> so why is it that this one program that has gone bad when you take chances as we said after 9/11, sometimes you have to take chances with bad people doing bad things to figure things out, when you do stuff

like that, bad things happen. so bad things have happened here. why has it risen and again, i am asking you, to try to take the republican line, why has it risen to this level in an election year when we know sting operations like this go bad all the time? >> now you're putting me in the worst -- this is like water torture, putting me in the position of taking the republican line. because eric holder is a bad guy. he's a bad guy. i think that's what i would say if i was in the republican -- he's obviously corrupt, a corny. >> are you saying there's no legitimate argument? >> i think -- >> why republicans are dernds concerned -- >> if you took the most neutral balance of powers argument you would say something like congressional investigators should have access to as much government information as

possible, there should be checks and balances, oversight over executive programs that -- whether they sometimes go bad for good reasons or bad reasons you would say if you were in the congressional side, you would say well, joe, you may be right this may be a perfectly legitimate program that went wrong for legitimate reasons but the only way we can know that is if we have full disclosure of all the documents and go open on this and evaluate this is -- >> that's what you would say if you were from the legislative side. >> of course willie, the stakes are so much higher in this particular case, because a u.s. agent was killed in this sting operation and again, that is a tragedy, that does happen all the time in warfare. it happens in these type of operations as well. but do the republicans not have a point of saying, we need all of the information and you guys are just trying to hide it from us because it's embarrassing to you? >> yeah. brian terry was the border

agent's name who was killed in december of 2010 by some of the guns that came through to traffickers in this program. i think by invoking executive privilege yesterday it opened it up to another level where republicans can say what is the white house hiding. what don't they want us to know about this. whether right or wrong extended the story another day, week, month. i don't know that it will last through to election time but it will consume this week. >> mike, i mean -- >> why not just let the information out? now when he claims executive privilege, it does make it smell like a cover-up, whether it's one or not. >> both sides are to blame here. both sides. the administration for not releasing the material, the republican majority on the panel for conducting -- >> are they just not releasing it because it's embarrassing because they screwed up because the president probably knew about it? >> i don't know why they're not releasing it. it makes no sense.

as willie pointsd out, brian terry is the border patrol agent killed when part of this operation went bad. i would be willing to bet a considerable sum of money if you approached a majority number of the panel and asked them the name of the border patrol agent killed they could not give you his name. they are more interested in appearing on tv with sound bites and playing on both sides of the issue. >> if you go to this deceased border agent's family, and ask them if they would like to know all the information on why their father, husband, son. >> correct. >> whatever, uncle, died. >> correct. >> in a u.s. operation that was bungled and went badly, i think we all agree they deserve those answers. >> terry's parents came out with a statement yesterday voicing their frustration saying it's disappointing we're faced with an administration that seems more concerned protecting itself

than revealing the truth why our son died. >> i'm sorry. >> the parents of brian terry. >> say one more time. >> brian terry's parents came out with a statement expressing their disappointment at use of executive privilege saying we want to know why our son died. >> i didn't know that when i said it. family members are still grieving over a u.s. operation that left their son dead and they have a right to know it and it seems to me the white house has bungled this. based on that fact alone. >> with all of that we have a couple more stories to get to. including the headline in the "wall street journal" which says the fed warns of risk to the economy after two days of back-to-back meetings. the federal reserve is vowing to reduce borrowing costs over the next six months. a reaction to new data that shows the u.s. economy is growing more slowly than they had anticipated. the fed shouldered part of the blame saying it didn't do enough to speed up growth. however, chairman ben bernanke. >> what else can they do to

speed up growth? give everybody a massarotti? look what they've been doing. the quantitative easing over the past four, five years. money is for free. >> yes. >> if you got money, you go in with a wheelbarrel and they fill it up. this is not news. i mean -- mike, what else can they do? you open up banks and like money goes through. >> the fed can do very little. the administration and the republican nominee for president could, perhaps, help a bit by coming up with a plan as to where we're going with the economy. i mean, the sustained growth that we have right now, is pathetic. it's pathetic. >> just there is -- i mean there a lot of economists and people on the fed who think that if the fed decided to raise its target for inflation and allow inflation to get over 2% and get up to like 3%, that the fed could actually do considerably

more. but that they've decided not to do that because they are almost constitutionally composed of people who are and that is an argument you hear among and members among the government that think that would be a plausible thing to do, to put your favor on the scale in favor of employment and worry less about inflation under these circumstances. >> the fed can't look at half the stuff in the simpson-bowles proposal and say let's implement this and do that. the fed can't do. >> there are things they could do if they cared less about inflation and more ability employment. >> here's ben bernanke saying congress needs to do more for jobs. >> monetary policy is not going to solve our economic problems. we welcome help and support from any other part of the government from other economic policymakers. so collaboration is -- would be great. >> collaboration. all right. collaboration. >> get your hands off --

>> yeah. >> concept. >> what's he saying there? what is he saying? >> what mike said. that's why mike liked that. >> let me ask you something really quickly, mr. heilemann, you were not here yesterday. what do you think of the end of "mad men"? you're a "mad men" guy. >> we came to the conclusion that the finale was strong but the previous two episodes before were the masteries. >> i forget you were here. over your shoulder, don't look over your shoulder it's bad television, i'm looking at a bloomberg poll that says president obama is up 13 percentage points on mitt romney. that seems awfully skewed although the pollster that did that for bloomberg is an excellent pollster. when you saw those numbers break across the wire yesterday morning, what was your take? >> well, i thought that there's no one i know in the obama campaign and no one i know in the romney campaign who believes that's correct. i'll say in both campaigns. there's no one in chicago that thinks they're ahead by 13 points. >> despite the fact that this is

one of the best pollsters in the business. >> there are polls and it's outliers and why anybody sane in politics always say you have to look at the last six or seven credible polls, average them together that's why we care about averages because there are outliers on both sides and why we look at averages and why we think averages are more important than any individual poll. there are freak accidents. >> anything happening out there over the past week that would have led to this bump? >> the main thing that's happened in the last week is the president's decision on immigration last friday and this same poll and again we don't know the answer because this poll which seems to have skewed for the president on the head-to-head with romney, also showed overwhelming support for the president's move on immigration last friday. now that support on friday, the support for that move on friday, is consistent with what we see in polling in the past with the dream act. so, you know, but that's the major news event of the last week that might have moved the numbers. the president not only on the issue itself but for a lot of people i think it looked like a

very strong decisive thing to do. but i don't think that moves every other poll we have these guys within the margin of error suddenly obama ahead by 13 points. i don't think it moves the needle that much. >> i think on immigration issues, the obama team has decided they are not going to win white, working class, blue collar voters. they're not. those voters that voted for hillary, are not coming their way. and if that's the case, they can be a bit more progressive on immigration reform and just stomp the ever living daylights out of mitt romney on the hispanic vote. that may be what we're starting to see here. >> they certainly have -- i don't know but the first thing you said is probably a little overstatement. again this bloomberg poll showed two-thirds of independenenindep favor of this movep they're not giving up a lot there. it's the case they think that the hispanic vote is critical to them winning the election in

november and this move was, among other things, was designed to drive up hispanic enthusiasm and maintain that huge gap that he has over romney in that key constituency. no question. >> mike, what is your first memory of -- i love this guy. always loved him. what a character. >> what was your first memory of leroy neiman? when was the first time he sort of burst to the american consciousness and when you first -- >> ali. >> was it ali frazier? >> yeah. >> did he do the fight of the century in '71? >> the thriller in manila i believe. that's my first memory of leroy neiman's skill as an artist. it was with -- there was a picture of the two of them right there. >> started seeing those things go up throughout the '70s. >> yeah. >> and talk about -- talk about -- >> spor"sports illustrated" gavm

huge exposure with ali. >> yeah. >> and you know, i mean just the look of the artist himself, the physical appearance of his own physical appearance, lent some credence to his skill and his -- the fact that he was very, very different from anything else you've seen before, especially as a sports artist. >> i just love the bright, bold colors. >> a lot of ways he was a sports historian. he was at all the big events, picture him at ringside, with a cigar and the mustache. >> yeah. >> impressionist painting and recording history. >> it's amazing him. >> we're talking about him because the american painter leroy neiman has died. the long-time contributor for "playboy" magazine he was known for his impressionist paintings and skefs of the olympic games on live television. he worked with some of the world's most talented athletes as barnicle mentioned. we showed you the picture of mohammed ali. one of his favorite subjects. his work captured 15 years of the fighter's career.

neiman sketched hockey star wayne gretzky two years into his legendary career. and you'll see roger clemens during his run with the yankees. his portrait, the rocket, hangs in the background. leroy neiman survived by his wife of 55 years. he was 91. >> i thought that was awfully generous of him to -- you know, i was going to say -- >> i know. >> you didn't -- no, you didn't see vile vials and needles nex the clemens' shot. i think there's a white -- that blue splotch, he must have gotten the vials. >> especially behind neiman's head. it's actually in the painting, you can't see it in that picture. >> coming up next, top stories. >> wait a minute. everybody on the planet knows, right? my little dog fido knows. that roger clemens was lying through his thicken tongue before congress. everybody knows that. everybody knows he was lying.

and yet, he gets off. how -- willie, you are now officially nbc news, now that dan abrams has left, you are nbc news's chief legal correspondent. >> savannah has stepped aside. >> savannah stepped aside. you are now nbc news chief legal correspondent, what happened? pete williams -- what happened here? why did they quit the thick tongued liar. >> i won't bore you with the or cane details. i know you wouldn't understand. >> go to two people. >> the two witnesses who helped him the most. >> andy pettitte. >> and the other one? >> mcnamee's wife. >> what did mcnamee's wife say? >> she basically said whatever he said came in the mail, now, from roger clemens the needles and everything, they were for here, they weren't for clemens. >> really? >> the wife. >> botox? >> divorced wife. >> so she's covering up for

roger? >> no. she was basically, i think, if you follow the trial, was getting back at her ex-husband. >> clemens has never tested positive for steroids. >> this is all fascinating. >> come on. >> coming up next, top stories in the politico playbook. also, "washington post" columnist david ignatius will be here in new york. former special counsel lanny davis, mark spitz, we'll look back on his seven-gold performance at the munich games 40 years ago and from the new movie "abraham lincoln vampire hunter" actora anthony mackie will be here. >> john heilemann, is this not one of the -- >> mr. blue sky. so many -- >> let's just let this bleed for five seconds before we go to bill. ♪

>> this is an amazing [ inaudible ]. >> are we going to have "living thing" later. >> miserable -- >> let's have weather. >> angry, unhappy. all day long. >> i once said this was like middle school lunch. that may be pushing it. good morning, everyone. heat wave continues over the northeast and as we go through this afternoon, today will be the hottest day we've seen in a while. we're talking triple digits. it's already in the 80s in boston and new york and this afternoon, we're going to go up to near 100, if not 100 degrees today from boston to i-95 southward, providence, hartford, new york, philly, baltimore and d.c. everyone's going to get into it today. a little worse than yesterday. heat advisories are in effect for most areas. that heat index could peak as high as 110 especially in new jersey and areas near philadelphia. how is the rest of the country doing? we suffered through this heat wave in chicago and through the ohio valley the last couple days. it ends today as that cold front

comes in. it will cool off. 85 in chicago, 84 kansas city. still very hot, though, in areas in the desert southwest. phoenix 111 today. and then the relief comes for new england. it looks like friday afternoon, with some thunderstorms in the afternoon. so from d.c. northwards, a little cooler on friday. the weekend by the way should be in the 80s for the areas suffering through the horrible heat wave right now. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. barnicle, maybe kindergarten will get you passed. ♪music plays throughout

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♪ we're going to go to politico when willie wakes up. how are you doing there? >> i was just reading the vandehei story. >> are you on the politico top story? that playbook is like riveting. >> it's huge. everybody reads it. jim vandehei back with us, executive editor of politico. kind enough to wake up live to be on camera for "way too early." >> i saw that. >> it was awesome. nothing like getting up at 4:00 to see you, willie. >> welcome to our world. let's talk about mitt romney and immigration. clearly last friday was a game changer on the topic of immigration and this presidential election. today, mitt romney's got a chance to do something to say something to hispanic leaders in florida. what can he say to change the dynamic here? >> i don't know if there's anything he can do to change the dynamic today. his message is going to be it's all about the economy. they don't think they have to basically tailor their message to each individual demographic like the obama campaign is. they think they just need to talk about the economy and about

high unemployment in the hispanic community which is higher than the nation at large and they think that his economic message will resonate over time with gettable hispanics, hispanics that aren't going to go with obama in the election. i think it's a high-risk strategy. it's crystal clear the start of conversation with hispanic voters you have to show you're serious about find something kind of solution to the deportation issue. >> what do we know about his immigration policy? that sunday when he sat down with bob sheefrer a couple days ago kind of tied in knots on that question. we know about the self-deportation, we heard about that in the gop primary debates. what's his big idea? >> i don't think he has one yet. he moved very far to the right during the primary race on immigration, on the dream act. they're clearly trying to figure out a calibration that will work. they wanted to embrace the plan by marco rubio which which have

give them a way to deal with deportation for children of illegals who served in the military, but he was preempted by president obama and it was really a brilliant political stroke because if you look at the polls since then, clearly the vast majority of independents in particular like the obama policy and marco rubio basically said i'm not going to present my plan anymore because i've been preempted. >> is this a losing fight on the immigration issue on the romney campaign. >> a fight they have to figure out in the next couple months. think about the electorate and swing voters, hispanic you have to win more than 30% of the hispanic vote. george w. bush showed it could be done in his first campaign, won north of 40% by taking a position that hispanic voters liked on immigration reform. it's going to be tough for mitt romney to do that given his past positioning on the issue. but boy, it's really hard to be the party of white voters and win an election. you can do it but it's very

difficult. they need to broaden the tent if not this year certainly in elections going forward. >> john heilemann, can i ask a basic question, how do you go on a sunday news show and bungle around a basic question on immigration reform? how do you do it? i've never seen major candidates bungle things around. the same thing with women's pay, how do you know know basic answers to these questions? >> i think because it boggles the mind that after president obama made his announcement on friday, mitt romney planning to go on "face the nation" on saturday while he was on -- i think they taped on saturday, but to have 24 hours and not have an answer to the question of -- >> you don't have an answer. >> would you repeal this when -- if you get elected to not have an answer it's fundamentally -- it's just a fundamental lack of preparation. >> dumb enough not to prepare to get an answer. just get one. >> has nothing to do --

>> think for yourself. >> that has everything to do with just being smart. being the smart political an candidate. >> also the fact that he's trying to be purposely vague on anything. go back to halperin's interview in "time" magazine and he talked about the economy, he didn't say anything. there was no specificity there just like there wasn't specificity in preparation on the immigration issue. they want to make it all about president obama which seems like a smart strategy in the moment. it's going to be tough to sustain that for months. at some point you have to take a stand, you have to be able to articulate your vision on immigration, your position with clarity on paul ryan's plan for restructuring medicare, you have to do it on each and every one of these issues. they haven't done it today. >> we'll see what mitt romney says today in florida about immigration. jim vandehei, with a look inside the playbook. after years of debate, years of criticism, talk radio filling hours on the subject, college

football leadership approves a playoff. >> oh, yeah. >> yes a playoff. >> oh, yeah. >> to determine a national champion. >> starting in 2021. >> it's a little ways off. >> that's a good question. why so long? with the spark cash card from capital one, sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪

welcome back to "morning joe."

>> here we go. >> welcome back. >> holy -- oh. >> what a morning. >> it is hot. it is hot out there. >> hot dog somewhere in the city. >> sure is. >> college football. >> yeah. >> barnicle doesn't want to talk about the nba finals, which, perhaps, the four best players in the nba on the court at the same time. >> talk about the red sox, though, for once. >> talk about college football. >> affect alabama, the s.e.c., everybody else, the pieces falling into place for a four-team playoff. yeah a playoff. to replace the bowl system that's been maligned since 1988. when it starts 2014 if this goes through. it gained the endorsement of the bcs commissioner and notre dame and awaits the approval affidavit bcs oversight. >> does that mean in january 2014? or does that mean in the 2014 season? >> that's no good. >> wait two more crappy years of -- well it's not too crappy,

alabama will be number one both years, but still, why are they waiting so long? >> contracts. they have contracts they have to work it out. got to get ari in there, peel them apart. >> college sport there's no commercial aspect. it's all about student athlete. >> student athlete, the degree. >> espn reporting the proposed system would have two national semifinal games, still played within the existing bcs bowl games. fiesta, rose bowl, on a rotating basis. four teams selected by a committee like the ncaa tournament. national championship game would be offered to the highest bidding city. the committee expected to consider multiple playoff formats when they meet on june 26th plug a plus one format. a four-team playoff here. it's not going to make everybody happy because with four teams you're going to leave a lot of people out who think they should be in that group. some people like to see eight teams but it's a start. >> at least the game will be decided on the field. let's get to baseball. >> yankees play yesterday?

>> not as far as i can tell on my computer here. rays and nationals facing off after a night of the ejectionion of peralta because he had pine tar on his glove. showed you this yesterday. caused friction between the two managers. joe maddon told the press that davey johnson was quote cowardly for checking peralta's glove and having him ejected. johnson responded yesterday by calling mad don a, quote, weird wus. first inning, bryce harper at the dish, shoots one into left centerfield. steve comes around to score. 1-0 nats. two more in the inning to make it 3-0 early. third inning, strauss berg was dealing. no pine tar needed. he gets ben zobrist swinging to end that inning. ten strikeouts in the game, all ten batters went down swinging. this pitching staff is unbelievable. rays down one with a runner on second. jose molina, watch the catch,

laying out to make the play. nats stay on top of the nl east leading the mets by three games. the mets are hot right now. >> straussberg, last season, would pitch like this. and like is he adjusted his pitching motion? everybody, when he went out said, that something about having to keep the elbow below the shoulder. >> yeah. >> has he adjust uds it for the long range, long term. >> i think he had to after the injury. >> his motion has changed a little. his setup has changed a little. he is an incredibly awesome pitcher to watch. i saw him a couple of months ago, he is the best young pitcher in baseball. >> tells me he's on a strict inning count and may run out of innings by the end of the season. >> he's going to have to pitch -- >> it's a joke if he doesn't. >> fenway park, he was lights out against the red sox. lights out. he looks more mechanically

sound. >> if you're in a pennant race you can't pull him out of the rotation. >> you skip a couple starts around the all-star break. >> yeah. >> you give him an extra day in august and he's got to pitch in september. >> yeah. >> red sox yesterday, big pappy hit a grand slam. went deep last night. >> hot weather. >> against the miami marlins. there were nine home runs at yankee stadium. unfortunately the braves had most of them. papi getting it done, barnicle. >> the red sox would stop fooling around and give him a contract extension now. >> no doubt. >> all-star season. he's having an all-star season. >> stop the nonsense. >> put that up one more time. look at the al east, every team above .500. >> the mets won again last night, three-game sweep of the baltimore orioles. >> the new york mets they're playing great, fred willupon has to be proud of his team. what a great job. r.a. dicky and subway series.

>> this weekend. >> that's huge. >> santana pitching great too. >> mika's must-read opinion pages next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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alaska's sarah palin is the main driver of that discussion since the palin choice gave us a lot of reality shows and helped give us president obama. no way this time, say the romneyite. they'll happily forgo heat and buzz for safety and stow lidty. the danger in romney's safety first approach is his search for the uncontroversial will keep him from the best possible candidates tim pawlenty or rob portman may be just right for the romney pick, each a strong public servant. if the call comes they and we need to know romney thinks they have what it takes not because neither thinks they can get their own reality show. a president needs all the help he can get to face it and god willing, master it. john heilemann? >> i couldn't agree more. >> you couldn't agree more with joe. >> look, i mean the romney campaign wants to make this election about barack obama. they don't want to make the

election about mitt romney, let alone about mitt romney's -- >> the more boring -- >> running mate. they're, obviously, trying to get a good governing pick. rob portman, serious governing pick. tim pawlenty a go ahead governor of the state of minnesota. we know all his strengths politically. those will be picks good governing picks and neither would make any news. they both would past the test immediately of ready to be president. >> and they're both ready to be president. >> they pass the test immediately. the media, political elites would say these guys are ready to be president. no one could question that. there would be no day after day of news stories. we talked about marco rubio this week. two weeks of stories about various marco rubio questions, controversies. you don't -- they don't want two weeks of stories about their running mates. they want to pass the test and move on. >> think about it, if you have pawlenty and rob portman, just those two right there as being the two guys we're looking at, those two guys are more

qualified to be president of the united states right now than three of the four finalists that were around last year if you look at barack obama, sarah palin, and -- well barack obama and sarah palin. those two. >> two of them. >> sarah palin changed the equation. she changed the equation. >> she changed the game. >> yeah. >> and -- >> she changed the game. >> in what way? >> because -- >> if you're the presidential nominee, you have to pick a candidate that the country, people in this country, will look at and say, capable of becoming president. >> you know who changed it for a lot of business democrats, barack obama. there are a lot of democrats not swept into the hope and change thing anymore on the future. they say wait a second, this guy excites me, is he ready to govern from day one. i think that's going to have an impact on the future too. he won. ended up winning. >> romney picks him by maybe the

middle of july and campaign as a team at least a month before the convention. >> john, are you hearing -- we're hearing tipping a bit the scales to pawlenty away interest portman. >> the chemistry between romney -- i don't know it's tipped away from portman. but pawlenty is getting a serious look and the chemistry as they spend more time together has been positive. a lot of people around romney like pawlenty and notice the two get along well and they could be a team. >> the press likes pawlenty. >> nothing not to like about tim pawlenty. not a great presidential candidate but a good guy. >> news you can't use is next on "morning joe." ♪

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is it time? >> time for news you can't use. the romney boys, all five sons on conan last night, paraded out with conan talking about their childhood with mitt romney and how their lives have been changed since their dad ran for president. >> you know what, this seems like a joke but it's not. this will make this work a little better. i have name tags for all of you guys. could you distribute these. i honestly don't know who's who and i've been looking at your pictures for days. all of you guys all boys. is one of you a girl being raised as a boy? >> danny, want to take this one.

>> ben, sold out immediately. >> absolutely incredible. you can tell when you get together it is a global khaki shortage. there's a panic worldwide. i love you're all dressed the same but can tell ben is the rebel in stripes. check that out. >> you guys reluctant about him running this time. >> as you can tell i really love the limelight so i was really -- >> guys also came prepared with a little piece of video from the 2008 election where they pranked their own dad using one of the sound boards you can get on-line of arnold schwarzenegger. >> matt, you were talking about pranks and i want to get this. during the primaries your dad, very interested in getting the endorsement of governor schwarzenegger. and you actually had a device, a box that gives you arnold schwarzenegger's voice and you used it, matt, to play a prank and we have the footage here.

let's take a look. >> governor, mitt romney, how are you? >> fine. how are you? >> i'm just fine, governor. how are you doing today? >> good. good. >> what can i do for you? >> i want to ask you a bunch of questions. i want to have them answered immediately. >> go right ahead and shoot. >> who is your daddy and what does he do? who? [ applause ] >> that's good. >> he had to like that. >> yeah. >> blows it off. >> standing by in the green room "the washington post's" david ignatius with us in new york. we're back in a moment. [ male announcer ] this is genco services --

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[ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! mitt romney has a new ad out right now where he blames a lot of the things that have gone wrong in this country in the past three years on president obama. this is typical of campaign ads but is this ad fair. take a look. [ inaudible ].

[ applause ] >> top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and john heilemann are both still with us. joining us is editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. his book "blood money" is out on paper back. >> great to have you here, david. look at the lead story in "the new york times" it tells us that a small number of cia officers are now operating secretly within southern turkey. and that according to the lead story in this morning's "new york times" they are helping allies determine which syrian rebels are being given weapons it fight the syrian government. the weapons range from automatic

rifles to rocket-propelled grenades and being supplied to fighters across the turkish border and according to american officials, the cia has been there for several weeks in part to keep those weapons from falling into the hands of al qaeda. so it appears we're trying to stake some sort of middle ground, perhaps, in between doing nothing and launching bombs on 30,000 -- >> it amounts to that. this is the middle option that we see in most crises. my understand is that what the cia officers are doing basically, joe, is trying to figure out who this opposition is. money and weapons are being pumped -- >> who is the opposition? >> we don't know yet, but we know -- >> what do you know? >> we know it includes some very radical sunni jihadists, associated with the muslim brotherhood and more extreme wings, even some members of al qaeda in iraq have moved back across the border, so there's

some scary people in this opposition. we know there's some decent, syrian citizens from different parts of syria who just hate this regime and so the idea of this is kind of, as i understand it, a fact-finding mission as much as anything else. figure out who are these people, who are the ones we can work with, who are the ones we like, our allies, saudi arabia, qatar, turkey, to steer weapons to and then how can we help them, the good guys, begin to organize themselves better. this is a rag-tag opposition. >> you talk about the fog of war. we really have no idea what's going on in syria or around there, but we have breaking news right now. about a defection. >> just crossing the wire, a syrian fighter pilot has reportedly landed at an air force base in jordan and asked for asylum. activist say the pilot defected. syrian state tv says communication was lost early this morning during a training

exercise. >> as you go in further south you go from what's happening in syria and jordan down to egypt, let's talk about the results in egypt. >> the final results of the presidential elections were expected to be announced today but egyptian officials say they need more time to verify them. the election commission has received more than 400 complaints and reports of irregularities as both have complained victory. with no new timeline in place, tens of thousand of muslim brotherhood supporters have gathered in tahrir square saying they will rally every day until the military credes power to their candidate. ten w tenuous situation there. >> does this come down to a battle between the muslim brotherhood and egypt's military? because we heard originally the muslim brotherhood was not going to cease power when these protests first began. then they changed their minds.

then they seemed to have a larger stake. then they seemed to have a dominant stake in the future of egypt and is that when the military finally stepped up and said, not on our watch. >> basically, in the beginning there was an informal pact between the brothers and egyptian military and that broke down over the month and i just was in egypt last week, talked with a leading strategist of the muslim brotherhood, who was himself going to run for president until he was disqualified and he basically said, if we're not allowed to win this, if they steal the election victory we think is out there for us, there's going to be blood in the streets. put it that way. he said the egyptian people will not accept victory by our opponents and he warned in a way that was really ominous, the next egyptian revolution won't be as peaceful as the last one.

so, i have to say, i'm watching developments there with a lot of anxiety. we're looking at a kind of slow motion military coup, but there were some reports that tanks and other forces were beginning to mobilize and i just hope we don't get back to large-scale violence in egypt. there was a process for transition in place for goodness sakes, the military should be smart enough to let it go forward. >> there is an egyptian middle class, there is a long history, the egyptians don't dart wildly from one political side to another. i one kwonder are they ready to embrace a nation run by the muslim brotherhood as much as they are full stale dictator military style by the military. >> there are a lot of people in the middle not comfortable with either. when i was there last week, none

of the above was the answer i heard most often in the choice between a return to mubarak style dictatorship and the muslim brotherhood. the muslim brotherhood has polled less and less in each election in the parliamentary elections they had about 10 million votes, it was about half that when it got to the presidential election in the first round. egyptians are kind of going i'm not sure about this. they still got a lot of votes and it is entirely possible that their candidate got more than the former mubarak guy, but even so, people watching your show should understand that egyptians are not -- they're pretty sensible people. they know the country has to get back to work and the economy get going again. that's the biggest issue for them and our government, can this muslim brotherhood government get egypt working again. is that the way to get investment coming back in the country, some stability. if it is, i think a lot of american officials would be for it. >> want to read from your piece in "the washington post." it explores the increasingly tense relationship with

pakistan. and you write, an embassy asks drones or diplomacy. the strains in the u.s./pakistani relationship became acute after the may 2nd, 2011 attack on abbottbad that killed osama bin laden. so did the intraembassy dispute about drones. the ambassador is said to have supported high value target strikes on named individuals and imminent threat strikes to stop, say, a car bomb, but he questioned the cost to benefit ratio for some so-called signature strikes, where the name of the target isn't known. sometimes these strikes produce a bonanza, as in the june 2011 signature attack that killed one of al qaeda's most dangerous operatives. a fine, fine balance being struck with these decisions. >> they're really hard decisions. my column this morning is about a microcosm of debate that really the country needs to have. as we go into this era of drone warfare, there needs to be discussion about how widely we

should use that and what i learned through my reporting was that debate has been going on within our embassy, where the ambassador was saying, look, the long-term costs to the united states in terms of our relationship with a key country, are greater than the short-term benefits of taking out people where we don't know the individual. this is not we're going after bin laden or we're going after atiyah's number one deputy. we just see signatures of people down there. there has been a lively debate and the ambassador lost it and the authority rests with the president and the cia director with the top of the covert action chain. >> we are in a tenuous situation at best, david, and the american people need to understand what's going on here and they have no idea. do you realize that if you are within 30 or 40 yards of a suspected target, and we don't know whether that is a bad guy

or not but if we presume it's a suspected target and let's say you're within the killing range, and you are a male under 45, you are presumed to be an enemy combatant and you are vaporized. that is u.s. foreign policy. now, we need -- first of all discuss whether that is what we want u.s. foreign policy to be, but secondly, david, we need to have a discussion on what got us here. what got us here was the fact that dana priest at "the washington post" wrote a column that upset a lot of lawmakers, actually didn't upset them, exposed a lot of lawmakers who in 2005/2006 were called out for supporting a program that was put into place in 2002, which allowed our people to go and use intelligence with isi, kick down doors, go into kandahar suburbs, pull out khalid shaikh mohammed,

bring him to a location, waterboard him, get information, actionable intelligence, et cetera. that rolled forward for three to four years. the dana priest article came out. suddenly the same people supporting this program, sturtu on it and said we must stop this at once. at that point the united states government had a decision to make. if we're going to wipe that program out, what do we do? and the decision that was made was, we've got to kill them all. and that is where we are today. and that discussion -- >> joe, you can't really lay our use of drones on dana priest, "the washington post" reporter who exposed aspects our detention policy. the administration may -- >> i can lay it. i can lay that as the beginning of the end. i'm in the talking about drones as we move forward in 2009, but

you and i both know, and dana was doing her job, except "the washington post" editors on whether they thought they should have exposed the program or not, but that was the beginning of the end. you talk to anybody in the cia that was close to it, you talk to anybody on the intel committees, that was the beginning of the end of the program that allowed our people to go in and seize the bad guys, take them to black sites and interrogate them, get actionable intelligence and then act on it. we don't -- we have no program like that anymore and we have no ability to interrogate actively these suspects when we pick them up. so at this point, our options are very limited. we can let them roam around or we can indiscriminately drop drones from above. >> we're still doing a lot of interrogation. the u.s. is still doing a lot of interrogation in afghanistan. and elsewhere. the tribal areas, by their

nature, they're not easy places to go in and capture people. >> right. >> it's not a terrain where that's very feasible so the use of drones, whatever questions you've got about it, isn't really an alternative to going in and capturing on the ground. >> are you saying we still have the program? >> we still -- >> that we still have the program that we had going from 2002 to 2005? >> people -- >> 2006? >> if somebody in south waziristan was captured tomorrow by some sort of joint operating team on the ground, that person would be turned over, i think, to the military for questioning. >> do we have the ability to interrogate like we did before? >> the military certainly has the ability to interrogate, the same techniques used as before, no. there was a broad public discussion led by john mccain, republican senator, who's experienced what these harsh interrogation methods are and at the end of the debate as a country we decided those methods

were not appropriate. that happened before obama became president. he took steps to beefen it. i don't -- i mean i have to say, i don't have a lot of questions about the wisdom of that. >> but doesn't this discussion, it sort of begs the question, i think in a lot of people's minds, you said the country needs to have a debate over drones. before we have the debate over drones, ought we not to have a debate over our relationship with pakistan? before we get to drones? i mean this is supposedly our ally and they throw up road blocks, sometimes small, sometimes big, sometimes hidden, sometimes in full public view? >> aren't we supposed to -- i go back to the long-term use of these drones that we're using. not just pakistan, the other countries where we're indiscriminately dropping drones and yes, we target the best we can target, but you have idiots in washington talking about how finally they are targeted and how safe they are.

5-year-old girls and grandmothers are getting blown up in these strikes, while anybody within a killing range runs away from cars that may be completely innocent are getting killed. is that not the first discussion that we're going to have? >> joe, from everything i know, they are somewhat more precise than that implies. i think there have been some civilian, some collateral casualties, horrible phrase that people use, but from what i've heard, if you see mr. al qaeda playing with his granddaughter, you can wait until the granddaughter goes where else and then take a shot and there's supposed to be lots of examples of that. compared to other weapons your alternative weapons, dropping a heavy bomb or even a laser guided bomb, this probably is more precise. we should note that. i think this question of what drones have gone in pakistan -- >> from what i've heard when the history books are written, five, ten years from now, david, there

are going to be a lot of people shaking their heads wondering why we leapt forward the way we did. >> as you know i wrote a novel that has this theme so i share a lot of your anxiety about it. i just am on the facts, it is worth noting that compared to other weapons that would be alternatives, probably these have more precision. >> it seems to me, one of the things about this, if you think about starting with the first gulf war when we started watching remote controlled missiles with incredible precision going into baghdad, throughout we're -- the technology is getting better and better more and more precise, the notion of being able to engage in remote control, long distance activities through technological means, is going to keep increasing and get more sophisticated and precise as it goes on and i think part of the debate that i think you're suggesting we need to have is, what does that mean? even if you get away from some of the concerns joe is talking about, what does it mean for

american foreign policy when we increasingly can in a very precise way, which is going to get more precise, kill people, execute activities abroad, what's the blow back on that? what does it mean when there's no u.s. investment beyond having to push a button? those have huge implications for policy abroad and at home. it seems to me. >> the use of these weapons has bled now from the pakistan tribal areas to afghanistan to yemen to somalia. our allies are clamoring to get cones. -- drones. we are about to sell armed drones to italy. >> good god, italy? >> using a u.n. study they're more about -- >> might be more interested in setting their bunga bunga parties -- >> countries now that either have or are seeking drone technology. we're going to be living in drone world. just wait for what happens when

the za das in mexico decide they want to go after law enforcement and buy themselves some drones. >> terrific. >> right. >> the drone network, you know, we know a lot about it. but we have another network the haqqani network, human beings on the ground who are killers of american soldiers across border. they are protected by the pakistani government. >> yep. >> back to the question, what do we do about the debate with pakistan? >> that is one question i have not seen anybody in washington answer, sent to basically tear their hair out. it drives people nuts. >> wow. >> let's talk about blood money. >> out in paperback now. >> it is out in paperback. the kids are swarming to the stores. no, serious. school's out and what are the kids doing? i can tell you what my 8-year-old daughter in the bleachers of the ball game, she's in the bleachers of the ball game -- >> it's not really a book for kids. but -- >> it is for mine. >> the things we've been talking

about now, drone warfare, this crazy relationship with pakistan and the intelligence service and the thing we didn't talk about, how is this crazy war going to end? are the themes of this novel. and, you know, it was published a year ago but i have to say, sadly, the themes are more relevant to today than a year ago. >> all the guys, all my friends that i've known since congress in the agency, that tell me what's going on about six months ahead of what's going on, they all -- when they all go overseas, they get his books, throw them in the suitcase and read them cover to cover and they can't believe he knows what he knows. >> up in the bleachers of the ball game. >> and that's what i tell my 8-year-old daughter. >> david's novel, "blood money" is now out in paperback and you can read an excerpt on our blog, mojo.msnbc.com. wonderful to have you in the studio in new york. >> great to be in new york. >> we'll be right back with an exclusive first look at the new

cover of "time" magazine with managing editor rick stengel. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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improve their taste. except -- oh, yeah. >> 25 past the hour. that's disgusting. >> it's really disgusting. you know what's disgusting, is that these writers and authors keep coming back, heaven, is it real? is it real? god, is god dead? "time" magazine, we got rick stengel here, he's a managing editor of "time" magazine. >> hello, rick. >> good morning. >> latest issue of the magazine. >> what's on the cover? >> couple months ago, atheists in waiting jon meacham wrote something on god. >> that was fascinating. >> is heaven even real? and now he's writing the same thing about the american dream. what's wrong with meacham?

you don't need me here. >> come on. >> i need you. >> you can make fun of meacham without me here. >> what do you mean, is the american dream real? look at us. >> well, rick. >> we have -- what we have, john, of course, is a pulitzer prize winning historian. >> that's great. >> it's the biography of an idea, the history of the idea of an american dream. when was that phrase first coined? the american dream? >> thank you. >> i don't know. i would guess probably in the 1920s. >> educate us. >> thank you. >> franklin roosevelt. >> john adams, the historian, coined the phrase in 1931 in the midst of the great depression. >> by the way, i said 1920s. good guess on my part. >> pretty darn good guess. in fact, part of the idea of it was that it was an economic dream. it wasn't just -- it wasn't a dream of religious freedom, a dream of prosperity of each generation doing better than the previous generation and in the midst of the great depression, this period where the dream in

so far as people actually held it, was most questioned and most threatened here was this man talking about it and then it caught on. it caught on because even in the midst of the great depression there was this spark of hope. john traces the history of the idea all the way back to the framers and then writes for the presidential campaign now where, in effect, basically the candidate who will win is the candidate who can most realize the hope of the american dream of the american electorate. >> neither one of these goobars steam to understand. you walk down the stairs of 30 rock i was showing friends who had never been to new york before, and i walked them around and i said, look, look at this. look at this place. i showed them 30 rock. i took them outside, i showed them the entire rockefeller plaza. i said you know when this was all built? this was all built in like 1932, 1933. >> right. >> started in the depression. >> in the dead heart of the

great depression and you look up at these towers and these towers are more than buildings, they are -- they really are, they are monuments to the american dream because rockefeller believed in the american dream. >> right. >> and he said, even in the depths, we're going to build the biggest buildings. >> which, of course, is the challenge now. which is when, you know, you -- we should be building now even during the time when things are difficult. in fact, john talks about and gives a kind of orrags to the role of government and realization of the american dream from the homestead act to the railroad act, to the act which created land grant universities 150 years ago, to the g.i. bill which paid for americans to go to the universities. all of those things fueled the american dream. and we spend a lot of time saying the heck with the federal government. but the government has enabled so many people to realize that dream through their own innovation, through their own ambition. that's another part of the dream. >> cut long-term debt.

i say it all the time. cut the long-term debt. save social security. save medicare. save medicaid. draw back defense spending and then build big projects in the short term. if we take care of our long-term debt, and we can do that, we will have so much money freed up to build big things. infrastructure to invest in rnd, to invest in education. my idea -- i know the telecom companies anybody that advertises here hate it, have just from coast to coast have a wi-fi system that everybody picks up, the log in is usa and the password is number one. everybody is on-line. we can do so many things if we have the guts to take care of the long-term debt. >> you mentioned 30 rock and the buildings around here building built in the heart of the depression and that is part of the american dream. but it's not the buildings that are the american dream. it's the people who worked on

the buildings because they were the sons and daughters, very few daughters, the sons of immigr t immigrants who gaimmigrant s who came here at the turn of the century, didn't speak the language. their children were working on these buildings, doing better in this country than their immigrant parents had done. the children of the workers in these buildings went to college. first generation of families that went to college. >> right. >> and that's where the dream seems i think in the minds of many people today, to be in the danger of expiring. because a lot of people no longer believe that their children, our children, right now, will do better in this country than we have done. and that's the danger to the dream. >> part of the function of that, though, is that this generation and the generation prior have done well, right. the bar is higher now. back in the '20s and '30s it was a little easier. >> exactly. >> too high. >> there's a goodness and a virtue to the fact that everybody has done well. the problem is that people still want everyone to do better. >> but we don't know.

to joe's point there is someone out there with the next new thing. >> there are a lot of people out there right now. talking to phil griffin last night, he went out to silicon valley and went to some -- i guess ted conference or something. his mind is blown by all the innovation that's out there. he's just -- it is stunning to him how far ahead many inventors of washington. it is mind boggling. listen, we're so far ahead of the world, we are -- we hahave lapped the world innovation, it's not a close call, and yet, washington can't get out of the way. >> well, washington in some sense has gotten away. the country people are talking about, where is the dream in the 21st century? people are talking about china. yet, china is looking at the u.s. as this bastion of innovation and how do we --

>> you know what chinese students think of their schools? chinese students think their schools suck. you know what chinese students want their schools to be like? american schools. >> that's right. >> you know what chinese students complain about all the time? you know what they do? they say all they do is open up our heads and they cram facts and figures in our head and they never teach us to think like americans. we want to go to school where they teach us to think like americans. and we're sitting here going, china is going to beat us. even the chinese say america has eight out of the top ten universities on the planet, they all want to be like us. they spend billions of dollars a year holding their people down trying to keep their people in their borders. our biggest problem is people complaining about keeping americans out. >> who is banging down the door to get into china? >> nobody. >> who is banging down the door -- >> billionaires. they want the market. >> investors. >> who is banging down the door trying to get into the united

states of america? everybody. >> everybody. >> everybody. everybody. 2012. >> i think your cover might be brilliant. >> thank you. >> because it's generating -- >> our history. we do an annual history. >> but wait, i know i get worked up over this because i see we have so many things going our way and by the way, warren buffett agrees with me. listen to warren buffett talk for ten minutes on foot tour of america. more optimistic about where we are today than he's been in his entire life. he says we are going to run a clean sweep in the 21st century if we can just get our politicians to -- >> investing in railroads and newspapers like warren is? >> warren is a believer. i'm a believer. >> i'm a believer. >> are you a believer? >> jon meacham may not be a believer. >> are you a believer? >> i'm a believer. >> do you think i'm being overly optimistic. you're been smirking over there. >> a little sloganistic. >> not at all.

>> come on. >> we've got big problems. >> who invented the skinny jeans. americans invented the skinny jeans. >> now as you look, i spend a lot of times looking and every time i go out to california where i'm from i am like phil griffin, amazed by what's going on out there. i have more -- a more benign view of government and i'm not sure that washington is the thing that's in the way and we've managed innovation that's come out of silicon valley has often been helped by washington and the infrastructure that laid down the tracks for the internet came largely out of washington. i'm not as skeptical about washington as you are. in terms of what we have to contribute to the high-tech future america ahead of everybody still. >> it's not washington getting involved like -- i talk about ike made the decision after sputnik to get involved and creating a new generation of engineers and mathematicians and scientists. my skepticism has to do with washington taking care of

long-term debt. if we take care of the long-term debt, that frees us up to make the short-term investments. it's all in infrastructure on r and d. the very things you're talking about to create a new american century. >> we need a cover story on why america needs a pep talk. why americans need a politician running for office to give the country a pep talk. >> americans just got a pep talk, don't you think? that was a pretty good pep talk. >> i don't know that we need a guy that -- to give us a pep talk. we need a guy who believes. we need a guy like ronald reagan. a guy like fdr. you think fdr in 1932 thought america wasn't going to prevail? fdr knew america was going to prevail. >> he wasn't wringing his hands. >> fdr felt sorry for everybody else that wasn't an american. >> joe, are you skeptical about whether both of these guys feel that way? >> you know what, i don't think they get it at their core.

i just don't. i don't think they understand at their core. the greatness of this country. i'm not saying they're communists or they're like in cults or anything like that. some people get it some people don't. jimmy carter didn't get it in his heart. right. he loved america. he was an american hero. was he an optimist? he wasn't an optimist. ronald reagan was. there's a difference. herbert hoover in 1928, he didn't get it, he was a money guy, market guy, fix it guy like obama. fdr, fdr got it. fdr knew he was going to do great things and he knew like i said, fdr -- >> joe biden gets it. >> joe biden gets it. joe biden gets it. >> talking about optimism or talking about the notion of the american exceptionalism. >> there's nothing wrong with careful optimism, which optimism with -- >> talking about -- talking about optimism.

>> serious challenges. >> we're talking about -- >> nothing wrong with that. being self-aware. if we're exceptional we can be that. >> we're talking about the optimism to be ike, and to know that you got 18 and 19-year-old kids that are going to be able to scale the cliffs of omaha beach and run into the heart of france and kick the hell out of hitler. >> except we can't do that right now. >> yes, we can. >> we're too fat. i'm serious. we're -- >> you know what, mika, nobody has ever -- nobody has ever been more wrong, nobody has ever been more wrong than you are right now. >> storming beaches, we're too fat. you know what, you know what we're going to do? we're going to take tours now, you have just consigned yourself to a tour of united states marine bases across this country. >> okay. good. we'll do that. >> i'm going to show you the, quote, fat heros. >> there are some problems in the military and i'm dead

serious. i'm just saying. >> you're dead wrong. >> okay. good. and you are, you know -- >> i am dead right. >> absolutely galvanizing in your words which is good but it's not everything. >> you know what, bet against paeshg all you want. >> i'm not. >> she's pushing it on -- >> against america. >> optimism in the american dream are twins optimism and the american dream are locked together. >> they are locked together. >> they are locked. >> why does mika insist on shorting america. >> because it makes her feel intellectually superior than the rest of us. it's safe to bet against america. makes you feel intellectually superior. >> maybe she isn't intellectually superior. >> it's the making of america issue of "time" magazine cover story the history of the american dream.

rick stengel, thank you very much. great cover. still ahead, an unlikely alliance. why former special counsel lanny davis and michael steele are joining forces. what they have to accomplish. coming up. keep it here on "morning joe." stocks out there, how do you know which ones to follow? the equity summary score consolidates the ratings of up to 10 independent research providers into a single score that's weighted based on how accurate they've been in the past. i'm howard spielberg of fidelity investments. the equity summary score is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. get 200 free trades today and explore your next investing idea. of single mile credit cards. battle speech right? may i? [ horse neighs ] for too long, people have settled for single miles. with the capital one venture card, you'll earn double miles on every purchase, every day!

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you have to love that poor air quality, stinky subways, beautiful weather conditions. today's going to be about 100 degrees from central park all the way up to boston and down to washington, d.c. this could easily end up being the hottest day of the entire summer. keep that in mind and also the weekend looks a lot better too. so who is in the lead right now? already 85 it feels like in philadelphia and in boston. here's the predicted high temperatures later today. everyone on the i-95 corridor up near 100 degrees. notice the cooler air for buffalo and pittsburgh. that will arrive in the big cities of the northeast come late friday. the rest of the country, already getting that relief. chicago your heat wave is done. kansas city also to st. louis, you'll appreciate the cooler air as it moves in during the day today. for new england, again, you have to wait until tomorrow and then by saturday highs will only be in the low 80s and humidity way down. i think you'll much appreciate it. coming up next here on "morning joe," bridging the divide. lanny davis, michael steele

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47 past the hour. joining us now msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. also attorney and former white house special counsel to president bill clinton, lanny davis, teaming up in a bipartisan effort to tone down the negative political rhetoric with the launch of nare new company purple nation solutions and in an op-ed in politico they write this, the partisan game of gotcha, an outright misreputation have grown old and we're sick it. we urge the romney and obama campaigns to repudiate these negative attack ads and

ininstruct their campaigns to tell us their ideas and specific answers to problems americans care about the most. good to have you both here. great, great, great idea. >> who came up with the idea? >> well, it's -- >> lanny. >> lanny approached me back in january and he says, i have this crazy idea that, you know -- >> tell people not to be crazy anymore. >> tell people not to be crazy. you get to a point where you're looking around you and hearing what the american people are feeling and thinking about are politics and where we are as a country and how we're dealing with our problems. he said look, i have this idea of, you know, having a different voice in the conversation and would you like to be a part of it. >> lanny, you're a warrior, political warrior, from the clinton years. >> clinton years can be redeemed. >> amazing grace, how sweet is thou. >> mika i'm not just saying this, joe and i became friends out of adver sair yal debates

clinton impeachment and now i've watched him on this program and he is speaking and actually helped inspire me i think he's wrong about almost everything. >> thank you. >> but you debate ideas and ready to hear other people's ideas and michael and i disagree on almost everything, what happens in washington and you know better than everyone there's a stalemate because people aren't talking to each other. >> when did this start? why did this start? how do we break the habit? >> well, i think, you know, you can really probably go back to the bush v gore era of when this whole thing began to break down, where we became red states versus blue states, more partisan, more hyper charged and it's just been on a downward spiral ever since. i think after, you kno know, certainly the two years i spent at the rnc, going around the country and listening to a lot of american people since then, hearing these voices, particularly in the tough economic times, the american people are looking for something. they're looking for leadership that's willing to have the

conversation. it's not about compromising on principle and getting mushy in the middle and having the kumbaya. it's about what you talk about on the show. what you american dream, our leaders in had washington aren't. they're having a conversation that is disconnected from the rest of the country right now. i mean, we're focused on hearings and, you know, the justice department. we're focused on everything but creating jobs, focused on everything but solving and coming up with solutions. >> john heileman, so why doesn't this work? why is there always the breakdown? >> well, boy, that's a complicated question. part of the thing i, you know -- there's -- i think there's no question but that our politics are much more polarized than the country is. that's, i think, in con to avertbly true. as a business strategy, though, in washington -- my question is -- i applaud you guys about what your theory about this. because i think it's based on that insight. but what's the market for this? who is in -- you guys are going

to be providing strategy advice, right? you're consultants, so given that washington -- how it operates, how deeply baked polarization is into our political cake at this point, who is going to buy -- the strategic advice that decides, well, i'm going to buck the trends, guys, because you guys have noble ideas. let's go chase nobility rather than chase what seems to actually work in terms of getting elected. >> well, i'll start and then let lanny finish, because we have good examples to answer your point. the business community, largely speaking, has gotten to the point where they have been told, look, you've got to buy insurance. if you are a republican, or a business, you've got to find yourself a democrat lobbying firm and vice versa. so we're trying to say, well, that doesn't really get you anywhere, because all they are going to do is go up on the hill and lobby what, you know? to a stalemate. so what lanny and i have discovered is that there is this growing class of businesses out there that are looking for these

kinds of solutions. and lanny is -- you know, we've got a couple examples just going back in terms of, you know, what's been able to happen over the last few months. >> so -- it really does go back to the joe scarborough era when bill clinton was forced by the republicans to balance a budget. and with great pressure from a democratic congress he had before '94 where he didn't have to do that. and that created a middle position, somewhere, between liberals and conservatives. we're not talking about kum ba yah. i'm a principle liberal and i believe in raising taxes. and i think there's a place that we have to cut spending, do entitle reform. i don't know why barack obama didn't endorse simpson/bowles right from the beginning and preempt the center, which is what i think bill clinton would have done, and in fact still wants barack obama to do. but we think clients are no longer going to buy insurance on the left and the right. they want solutions. the only way you find solutions is somewhere in the middle. >> and you're right, lanny, you're exactly right. bill clinton didn't want to sign

welfare reform at the beginning. he didn't want to pass the balanced budget act. but he faced the realities. he had a republican congress, he was a liberal democrat. and -- we came to the center. >> but you guys also pulled back from severe cuts. >> and we came to the center too. >> and found consensus. it didn't mean you weren't conservative. you were willing to listen and try to find solutions. >> and by the way, we were complaining every step of the way as we moved towards the center. i'm sure the white house was -- had people complaining every step of the way. but we met in the middle, and what happened? we balanced the budget for the first time in a generation. we balanced it four years in a row for the first time since the 1920s. we passed welfare reform. we passed medicare reform. we passed regulatory reform. >> to be fair, barack obama has tried, and he didn't have a joe scarborough and is he didn't have a lot of people in your caucus willing to come to the table.

boehner met him in the white house -- >> barack obama owned washington for his first two years. and he misplayed his hand terribly and that has put him where he is now. if he gets re-elected, let's hope he uses his next mandate, a bit more wisely -- >> his instincts were really to be much more centrist. and i think the polarization in the tea party movement made it difficult. but i do criticize president obama for not taking advantage of erskine bowles, a good democrat and dick durbin, a progressive democrat supported erskine bowles. that was his opportunity. >> and, remember, back in january of 2009. >> yes. >> he had a new hampshire senator, judd gregg, that was ready to go work for him as commerce secretary. and after two weeks of seeing how he was dealing with republicans, threw up his hands, said, okay, i'm not going to work this guy. this is not the hope and change

guy. >> one final point. what was key about your period when you guys were working this thing was the idea that you worked towards consensus. and that's what we're asking folks. >> michael steele and lanny davis, thank you so much. great to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> still ahead, olympic swimming legend mark spitz joins us on-set. we're back in just a moment. ♪ man: there's a cattle guard, take a right. do you have any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course. nature can surprise you sometimes... next time, you drive. next time, signal your turn. ...that's why we got a subaru. love wherever the road takes you.

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♪ good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up. as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." >> who is here, mika? >> national affairs editor for

"new york" magazine and political analyst, john heilemann. >> that is a good -- >> no, he just was here. and we had no one. also, msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, president obama has asserted the first executive privilege of his administration, setting off a fight with congressional republicans who are claiming election year overreach by the president. the white house moved to protect attorney general eric holder from a year-long investigation by shielding documents on the government's botched sting operation known as fast & furious. despite the president's move, the house oversight committee voted along party lines to recommend attorney general holder be held in contempt for failing to produce documents showing when the administration knew there were problems with the operation. for weeks, department of justice and the house committee have been at odds over what information could be released. the white house argues that attorney general holder has been cooperative, offering up over 7,000 documents, and testifying nine times. republicans say the administration is trying to hide

information while democrats say this is just an election year political ploy. >> this is not about eric holder. it is about department of justice and justice in the united states of america. have the guts. i hope we have the guts and the perseverance to get to the bottom of this. >> it shouldn't be a political witch hunt against the attorney general of our country. and our president in an election year. >> it's painful to sit here and watch it turn into a partisan political theater and unnecessary move in that direction. >> now the president of the united states has claimed executive privilege. that brings into question whether or not eric holder knew about it, and how much did the president know about this. >> house speaker john boehner issued a statement, quote, saying the white house decision to invoke executive privilege implies that white house officials were either involved in the fast and furious operation or the cover-up that followed. the administration has always

insisted that wasn't the case. were they lying? or are they now bending the law to hide the truth? this is president obama's first use of executive privilege. president george w. bush had six. president clinton exceeded all modern presidents with 14. in 2007, then senator obama criticized the bush administration for using executive privilege to protect adviser karl rove from testifying about the firing of nine federal prosecutors. remember that? >> there's been a tendency on the part of this administration to try to hide behind executive privilege every time there's something a little shaky that's taking place. and i think, you know, the administration would be best served by coming clean on this. >> yeah. >> the entire house will convene to do a vote on holder next week. if holder is found in contempt, he would be the first u.s. attorney general to be held in contempt of congress. >> show the numbers of the presidents and all the executive

orders and take a second. because willie is our -- willie, of course, you have tj who is our director. bill clinton, of course, 14. and what was so shocking was number 12. remember? boxers or briefs. >> yeah. >> cut it out. >> he claimed executive privilege on boxers or briefs. >> unfortunately, he did. at the mtv -- the mtv town hall. it was an important moment in presidential history. >> they did. and they asked him again in impeachment and take it back. john heilemann, let's pretend you're a down political reporter. >> yeah. >> and you're not a marxist, who smokes way too much dope in your brooklyn flat at night. >> that's going to take a lot of pretending, but -- >> just try of the. >> fantasy land. >> fantasy land -- >> pretend be to be donny deutsch is what you're saying, okay. >> try to explain to me why the republicans have a good point here on this fast and furious issue.

>> i'll try to pretend that you're a straight down the middle reporter. and explain the republicans' best point on why holder should be held in contempt. >> i don't know that i think i can on contempt. i think, you know, the notion that -- i can make the case for why republicans, you know -- this was a program that went bad. >> right. >> and you can make the argument -- >> let me stop you there. programs like these, stings, go bad all the time, do they not? >> they do. >> so why is it that this one program that has gone bad, when you take chances, as we said after 9/11, times you have to take chances with bad people doing bad things to figure things out. when you do, shhtuff like that, bad things happen. so bad things have happened here. why has it risen? and, again, i am asking you to try to take the republican line.

why has it risen to this level in an election year when we know sting operations like this go bad all the time? >> man, you are putting me in the worst -- this is like water -- >> go for it. >> putting me in the position of trying to take the republican line. well, you know, because eric holder is a bad guy, you know. he's a bad guy. i think that's what i would say if i was a republican. he's obviously corrupt, obviously a crony. i mean, i think there's only a political argument. >> are you just saying here that there's really no legitimate argument? >> look -- >> no legitimate argument -- >> i think if you took -- if you took a -- the most neutral balance of powers argument, you would say something like congressional investigators should have access to as much government information as possible. there should be checks and balances, there should be oversight over executive programs that -- whether they sometimes go bad for good reasons or bad reasons. you would say if you're -- congressional side, you would say, well, joe, you may be right. this may be a perfectly

legitimate program that went wrong for a legitimate reason. but the only way we can know that is if we have full disclosure of all the documents and let's just go open kimono on this. >> and what happened. >> and what happened. that's what you would say from the legislative side. >> okay, and, of course, willie, the stakes are so much higher in this particular case because a u.s. agent was killed in this sting operation. and, again, that is a tragedy. that does happen. all the time in warfare. it happens in these types of operations, as well. but do the republicans not have a point of saying we need all of the information, and you guys are just trying to hide it from us, because it's embarrassing to you. >> yeah. brian terry was the border agent's name, was killed in december of 2010 by some of the guns that came through to traffickers on this program. to me, that's worth looking into. now, i think by invoking executive privilege yesterday, it opened it up to another level, where republicans can now

say, wait a minute, what's the white house hiding? what don't they want us to know about this? whether right or wrong, they have extended the story another day, another week, another month. i don't know that it will last through election time, but it certainly will consume this week. >> mike, i mean -- why not just let the information out? now when he claims executive privilege, it does make it smell like a cover-up. whether it's one or not. >> both sides are to blame here. both sides. the administration for not releasing the material. the republican majority and -- on the panel for conducting -- >> why -- are they just not releasing it because it's embarrassing, because they screwed up, because the president probably knew about it? >> i don't know why they're not releasing it. it makes no sense why they're not releasing it. but as willie pointed out, brian terry is the border patrol agent who was killed when part of this operation went bad. i would be willing to bet a considerable sum of money that if you approached a majority of the members of this panel in the house on both sides and quickly

asked them the name of the border patrol agent killed, they could not give you his name. they are more interested in appearing on tv with sound bites and playing on both sides of the -- >> i guarantee, if you go to this deceased border agent's family, and ask them if they would like to know all of the information on why their father, husband, son -- >> correct. >> whatever, uncle, died. >> correct. >> in a u.s. operation that was bungled and went badly, i think we all agree, they deserve those answers. >> correct. >> terry's parents came out with a statement yesterday voicing their frustration, saying it's disappointing, we're faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting itself than revealing the truth about why our son died. so they came out yesterday with that statement. >> yeah. so family members are still grieving over a u.s. operation that left their son dead, and they have a right to know it, and it seems to me the white

house has bungled this. just based on that fact alone. >> we'll follow that. we have a couple more stories to get to, including the headline in the "wall street journal" which says the fed warns of risk to the economy after two days of back-to-back meetings. the federal reserve is vowing to reduce borrowing costs over the next six months. a reaction to new data that shows the u.s. economy is growing more slowly than they had anticipated. the fed shouldered part of the blame, saying it didn't do enough to speed up growth. however, chairman ben bernanke -- >> hold on, what else can they do to speed up growth? give everybody a maserati? i mean -- look what they have been doing. the quantitative easing over the past four, five years. money is for free! >> yes. >> if you got money, you go in with a wheel barrow and they fell fill it up. this is not news. mike, what else can they do? you open up --

>> the fed can do very little. the administration and the republican nominee for president could perhaps help a bit by coming up with a plan as to where we're going with the economy. i mean, the sustained growth we have right now is pathetic. >> well -- >> it's pathetic. >> just -- there is -- there are a lot of economists and there are people on the fed who think that if the fed decided to raise its target for inflation, and allow inflation to get over 2% and get up to like 3%, that the fed could actually do considerably more. but that they have decided not to do that, because they are almost constitutionally composed of people who inflation hawks and that's an argument you hear among liberal economists and there are some members of the fed board of governors who think that would be a applausel be thing to do, to put your finger on the scale of employment and worry less about inflation under these current circumstances. >> the fed can't look at half the stuff in the simpson/bowles proposal and say let's implement this. >> no.

>> the fed can't do that. >> that's something they can't do. but there are things they could do if they cared less about inflation and cared more about employment. >> here is ben bernanke singling out congress. >> monetary policy by itself is not going to solve our economic problems. we welcome help and support from any other part of the government from other economic policymakers. so collaboration is -- would be great. >> all right. collaboration. >> yeah, get your hands off. >> that's the concept. >> what's he saying there? >> he's saying what mike said. that's why mike liked that. >> let me ask you something. i'm looking at a bloomberg poll that says president obama is up 13 percentage points on mitt romney. that seems awfully skewed. although the pollster that did that for bloomberg -- >> very strong. >> is an excellent pollster. when you saw those numbers break across the wire yesterday morning, what -- what was your

take? >> i thought there is no one i know in the obama campaign and no one i know in the romney campaign who believes that that's correct. i'll say in both campaigns. there is no one in chicago who thinks they're ahead by 13 points. >> despite the fact this is one of the best polls in the business. >> there are polls who are outliers and anyone who is sane in politics says you've got to look at ten of the past six or seven credible polls, average them together. that's why we care about averages. there are outliers on both sides and that's why we look at averages and we think averages are more important than any individual poll. there are freak accidents. >> anything happening out there over the past week that would have led to this type of bump? >> well, you know, the main thing that's happened in the last week is the president's decision on immigration last friday. and this same poll -- and, be again, we don't know the answer, because this poll, which seems to have skewed for the president on the head-to-head with romney, also showed overwhelming support for the president's move on immigration last friday. now, that support on friday -- the support for that move on

friday is consistent with what we see in polling in the past with the dream act. that's the major news event in the last week that might have moved the numbers. the president not only on the issue itself, but for a lot of people, it looked like a strong, decisive thing to do. but i don't think that moves -- every other poll, we have these guys within the margin of error. suddenly ahead by 13 points. i don't think it moves the needle that much. >> i don't think it does. i do think, though, on immigration issues, the obama team has decided they are not going to win white, working-class blue collar voters. they're just not. those voters had voted for hillary are not coming their way. and if that's the case, they can be a bit more progressive on immigration reform, and just stop the ever-living daylights out of mitt romney on the hispanic vote. that may be what we're starting to see here. >> well, they certainly -- they certainly have -- i don't know, but the first thing you said i think is probably an overstatement. again, this bloomberg poll

showed two-thirds of independents in favor of this move on friday. so that's not -- they're not giving up a lot there. certainly the case they think the -- that the hispanic vote is critical to them winning the election in november. and this move was, among other things, it was designed to drive up hispanic enthusiasm, and maintain that huge gap that he has over romney in that key constituency. no question. >> mike, what is your first memory of -- i love this guy. always loved him. what a character. >> leroy niemann? >> what was your first memory of leroy niemann? what was the first time he sort of burst to the american consciousness and when you first -- >> ali. >> was it ali frazier? >> yeah. >> did he do the fight of the century? >> yeah, he did the thriller in manila, i believe. that's my first memory of leroy niemann's skill as an artist. it was with the -- there's a

picture of the two of them there. >> he started seeing those things go up throughout the '70s. >> yeah. and talk about -- >> "sports illustrated" gave him huge exposure with ali. >> yeah. >> and, you know, i mean, just the look of the artist himself. the physical appearance of his own physical appearance lent some credence to his skil skill and the fact that he was very, very different from anything else you've seen before, especially as a sports artist. >> i just love the bright, bold colors. in a lot of ways, he was a sports historian, at all of the big events and you can picture him ringside with the cigar and the mustache. >> yeah. >> impressionist painting in recording history. >> amazing. >> we're talking about him, because the american painter, leroy niemann, has died. the long-time contributor for "playboy" magazine, niemann was widely known for his impressionist paintings and

sketches on live television. he also worked with some of the world's most talented athletes, as barnicle mentioned. we showed you the picture of muhammad ali, one of his favorite subjects. his work captured 15 years of the fighter's career. niemann also sketched hockey star wayne gretzky two years into his legendary career. and you'll see roger clemens during his run with the yankees, his portrait "the rocket" in the background. he is survived by his wife of 55 years. >> wow. >> he was 91. >> coming up next, it was 40 years ago when swimming legend mark spitz made olympic history claiming seven gold medals of the summer games in munich. mike, that was incredible. >> refer that cover of "sports illustrated" with the seven mad medalities? >> a chest like mine when i was 7 years old. he joins us on-set with the summer games in london. you're not going to want to miss that. also at this table, the ceo

of mercedes-benz in the u.s. how we can get more jobs in the united states as we move forward. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> joe, the heatwave is very impressive, 8:00 on the east coast. and temperatures are already beginning to approach 90 degrees in some areas. we are way ahead of where we were yesterday. that's why today is the peak of the heatwave for the northeast. the heat index up to 88 from d.c. to philadelphia, not far behind from boston to hartford and new york city. temperature in the shade this afternoon. if you're in the sunshine on the pavement, add 10 or 15 degrees. it will be near 100 today from new york to philadelphia to d.c. a little cooler back in the ohio valley as some clouds and showers will try to cool you off. also, relief in the midwest. cold front has moved through. minneapolis, chicago, kansas city and st. louis, your heatwave is now over after about a week straight. you needed the relief. no relief in sight from vegas to

phoenix. very hot. as far as the heatwave in the northeast goes, tomorrow a hot day. but we will see some thunderstorms. instead of 100, it will be more in the 90s and by saturday and sunday, the east coast cools off and then we return to a normal june weather pattern across the country. but washington, d.c., i think you're going to do it today. i think we could hit 100. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ how are things on the west coast? ♪ ♪ i hear you... ♪ rocky mountain high ♪ rocky, rocky mountain high ♪ ♪ all my exes live in texas ♪ ♪ born on the bayou [ female announcer ] the perfect song for everywhere can be downloaded almost anywhere. ♪ i'm back, back in the new york groove ♪ [ male announcer ] the nation's largest 4g network. covering 2,000 more 4g cities and towns than verizon.

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♪ 24 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." look who is here. here with us now, olympic gold medalist mark spitz and the ceo

of mercedes-benz usa, steve cannon. mercedes-benz is donating $1.3 million to the foundation loria sport for good, the charitable organization that supports sports for youth across the nation. great to have you both here. and we get to talk about the olympics, as well. from someone who knows about it seven times over. that will be great. >> a little bit. >> just a tad. just a smidge. and you're going, willie, right? >> i'll be there. are you going to be there, mark? >> not as we're speaking at the moment. >> no. okay. >> he will be there. >> why don't you ask him the question -- >> elusive. >> you asked off-air. very interesting. >> yeah, 1972, you win seven gold medals. 22 years old? >> yeah, 22. >> so the question is, 1976, you're only 26 years old. why didn't you go back for more? explain what you were just saying in the break a little bit. >> well, you know, there was professionalism if you took any money in the olympic sports arena, you wouldn't be allowed to compete. you can make money and the word

amateur has disappeared. there was no way i was going to be able to continue having taking some money. and i was figuring out a way to pay for dental school. so this was a great opportunity. >> which has to be frustrating watching now as michael phelps can get whatever he wants whenever he wants it. you could have had some of that too. >> listen, they're not going to be doing any benefits for me. i think i did very well, thank you very much. >> no, i -- >> he's good. >> no question you did. but it would have been nice while you were swimming to go back for more. >> you know, i think it would have been -- certainly, i retired at 22. i had certainly another couple years in me. and it would have been in the best interest of my sponsors that i had continued, if that was allowed. but that's a discussion i couldn't even go there, because it wasn't the case. >> all right. steve, let's talk a little bit about lorias and the donation. this is an incredible amount of money that mercedes is handing over. why to this of all the choices you be could be making. >> mercedes is a global founder,

and we started activating in a big way in the united states. and it's all about social change through sport. we think for us in the united states, it really sits on kind of a significant fault lines with budget cuts. you've got money leaving sports at an amazing rate. $3.5 billion have been removed from public school sporting things over the last couple years. so you've got a tremendous need, coupled with, you know, obesity, which is practically an epidemic. here in the new york area, almost 30% of the kids are on or close to being obese. so we think this is a great way to come together. we think this is the model for the future, business getting together to pick up some of the slack the public sector can't pick up anymore. and step in and fulfill a need. >> you know, and you and mike barnicle have something in common, right? i don't know -- you both have like 94 children between you two, right? >> we have seven. you have nine kids? >> nine kids. >> do you really? >> nine kids!

>> i have every future demographic -- >> me too. >> in the next 50 years. >> but one of the things -- you've chosen five cities for this program, this joint program. and one of the things that -- and we've talked about it before that is really sad when you think about it. we used to call it gym class. >> remember that? >> when i was growing up. and then it graduated into physical education. but none of that exists in so many schools across the country. so does this help fill a void? does this program help fill a void for those kids who received no exercise at all or no instruction at all? >> absolutely. so they have no access to sports. we're focusing on cities in underserved, challenged areas where alternatives might be gang, might be drugs. so here we step in, and just provide an opportunity to get kids in the game in whatever that game might be. so here just in new york, we've got tennis, we've got rowing, we've got wrestling, we've got ping-pong, we've got soccer,

rugby. so it doesn't matter what the sport is. it's about getting involved, getting active and having an alternative to hanging around and potentially getting in trouble. >> it's a complete lifestyle that you want to develop in the next generation. and i wonder, mark, if -- i sat down on the set, and he said, hey, those almonds shouldn't have all that stuff on it. so obviously, you're health conscious. must be incredible, though. i get so worried looking at the next generation at this point, because physical fitness does not even seem to be possible for some of them. >> well, i think that, you know, the biggest point that is made here is that all of the money -- left some of the programs at the public school sector. lorias, i was involved with the inception of this whole concept back in 2000. and i'm one of the board members. what we have done globally, and what we're so proud of the fact that mercedes has come in and supported our programs, we have about 40 -- we have over 102

programs -- 104 now, i believe it is, worldwide. we affect the lives of over 1 million people over the last 12 years that have gone through these programs where they never had a chance to exhibit any opportunity. they're socially, economically and spiritually challenged. and we've given these people opportunities with the programs we have implemented financially. what we have done here in america, and especially in this region here, is we have coach across america, which they have i think 250 programs nationwide. and that we support financially the education of the instructors, because we can create the program. >> right. >> but we need also the modeling of the people that are the spiritual leaders and the role models of when these kids come into the program that they can actually identify with these people. so i've been involved with this for over 12 years now. and it's sort of like this is what i do to give at the office. when someone says you donate your time, there's about 46 of us illuminaries in sport, cover from cricket to olympic sports

to professional sports that give of our time to go into these different projects, at least with lorias worldwide. and now what we're doing is, we're beginning more momentum in the united states through coach across america, and its 250 programs. >> what do we do, mark, in schools? i know a lot of it is budget. but to reverse is sort of the de-emphasizing of gym class. a lot of these schools don't even do the presidential fitness test anymore. they phase this out. and this is obviously core -- not just to our kids, but to the future of the country. >> well, it's sort of like when you starve your system financially, you've got to get to at least maintaining your life. so it's the same as when you get sick. your body starts to shut down, except for the essential parts. and one of the things that gets cut off is the extra activities. at one time it was the arts and it's now sport. and then pretty soon, it's going to be just education in itself. i don't even know where they're going to go with this. but the problem is that sports gives a child an opportunity to express themselves in a social way amongst themselves and feel

good about themselves building self esteem. and one of the reasons that gang members actually get control of these kids when they don't have athletic programs, they bring them into an environment where they feel they're a part of a program but it's a bad environment. sports eliminates that and creates a healthy environment. and where there is despair, it gives hope. sports does that. and kind of an interesting way. so our programs are not designed to develop olympic athletes or world champions. it's basically to give a child an opportunity to have something else that maybe they're not so great academically, but they can express themselves through sports in a real positive way. >> fantastic. >> steve, we can't let you get out of here without one last pitch to get me a deal on a mercier mercedes. >> he needs a train. >> the fact that mercedes -- bmw -- i want to buy an american car. but the efforts you've made to build cars in the united states, a plant in tuscaloosa, alabama.

>> we do. >> how did you arrive at tuscaloosa, and why are you still there, and is it going to grow? >> wow, this goes back to '94 when we decided to locate our first plant outside of germany in the united states. get closer to the market. hedge some currency risk. so we needed more exposure to dollar territories. so we've landed on tuscaloosa after a pretty exhaustive search. and after the fact, 15 years later, we've got hyundai there, toyota there, so it sparked off a whole movement, where there's a whole poll of automobile industry there in the south, surrounded by suppliers responsible for the creation of an amazing number of jobs. so it's -- it sparked a movement that's been pretty successful. and we've doubled down on that factory. we expanded it once, and now we're about to double it again, and we'll be producing all of our trucks there, and the c-class comes in 2014. >> okay.

>> we'll get to a lease later. >> no such thing. very good to have you both on. steve cannon. mark spitz, thank you very much. coming up from the new moviatimovi moviation "abraham lincoln: vampire hunter" andrew macke joins us next on "morning joe." [ thunk ] sweet! [ male announcer ] the solid thunk of the door on the jetta. thanks, mister! [ meow ] [ male announcer ] another example of volkswagen quality. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 jetta for $159 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. but what about your wrinkles.

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♪

it's 80 miles from here to gettysburg. 80 miles to decide whether this nation belongs to the living or the dead. ♪ >> we have got to keep them away from the locomotive. >> ah! >> that was a scene from the new film "abraham lincoln: vampire hunter" where the 16th president of the united states takes on a bit of a new role. joining us now, the film stars

anthony mackie. >> hello, anthony. >> i was saying, it's the perfect date movie, because you take a beautiful young lady, get her some popcorn and when she sits there, and she'll go -- it's okay, baby. it's okay. it's okay. >> this guy is a good salesman. >> let me step on those big vampires for you. >> oh, my. all right. >> anthony, a lot of people saw the title of this movie, and they were racking their brains going through their junior year high school history. don't remember -- i remember a lot about lincoln, not the vampire hunting, i must have missed that day in class. >> that's the great thing about it. if you can get past the title, if you can allow yourself to believe that there's a guy from another planet who goes into a phone booth and put on a tight suit and flies around to save the planet, you can believe that superman is a pretty cool super hero, right? so why invent superman when we have actual superheroes in our past. abraham lincoln was the greatest

of all of them. >> so how do you combine reality with fantasy? history of abe lincoln with him being a vampire? >> it's called movies. >> i get that, anthony. >> no, the writer -- >> weave it together. >> graham smith, his first book was prejudice and zombies. so he's sitting in barnes and noble -- not a plug. he looks to his left and twilight movies and looks to his right and a biography of abraham lincoln and he goes, why didn't anybody write this book before? so he went home and wrote the book with a recontextization of history for young ladies to swoon and men to go, it's okay, baby, i'm going to fight those vampires. >> he brings it all together, doesn't he? >> see? full circle. irvelths got to tell you, you are such a salesman. i am stunned you worked the president of mercedes north america -- >> i tried, man. >> and you didn't get a -- >> i told him, i'm help in any way, shape or form. i'll do a commercial.

>> usually like to hang out with the guests -- we couldn't get anthony away from the mercedes guy. >> i tried! >> we needed the jaws of life -- >> yes. >> you guys have a nice desk. he has mercedes-benz. >> lots -- >> kind of wins. >> got you. >> we've got, by the way, a very, very special guest on the phone right now. we've done some fact checking on this vampire thing. >> oh, no. >> presidential historian, world renowned, author of the best selling lincoln by gravy team of rivals, preeminent scholar, doris kearns-good win on the phone. doris kearns-goodwin -- >> i read through the book. i can shut it down. >> you've read the national archives, seen the papers. was he at any time a vampire hunter. >> it's pretty embarrassing this man i lived with for ten years, woke up every morning, went to bed every night, and i didn't know this part about him. where was i? what was the matter with me?

>> with your book, which was an amazing book and actually very quick and interesting read, it was more about his politics in the white house. as opposed to his personal life. if you go into his personal life, you will learn that there were many intri cat ideas of what he did with this his night life. >> oh. >> see that? >> you thought i didn't read the book. >> the interesting thing is that the same starting point for the book and the movie is real. it's the mother's death. >> here we go. deal with that. preach. go ahead. >> historians know, it had such an effect on him, he told them i'm going to die now and shall never return. he felt there was nothing left after we die so he eventually got consolation in the thought if i can do something that gets remembered by time, i'll live on in the memory of others. so you have that as the starting point, which is knowing that the vampire killed his father, has to fight vampires. so it is a central theme in lincoln's life, just turned in a

different direction. and you've got slave dealers, too. >> and he also lost three children, correct? not one. >> correct. >> and in the movie, we have him losing his son. but abraham lincoln saw so much death in his life, losing his mother, three kids and then mary todd was looked at as kind of bipolar. so you see how his personal life is affected by so many outside factors and we just decided to make those factors vampires. >> so the movie stretches reality just a little bit. but you don't actually play abraham lincoln. >> yes, i do. modern technology and cgi. i play bro lincoln, yes. >> you actually play, like abraham lincoln's political consultant, right? >> which in real life -- >> you're like the james carville of abraham lincoln. >> very good! i'm the robin to his batman. william h. johnson was actually

abraham lincoln's chauffeur. >> he's a real guy. >> and he was with abraham lincoln when he gave the gettysburg address. on the way back, he died of small pox. and abraham lincoln with money out of his own pocket had him buried at arlington cemetery. first black man buried at arlington cemetery. and on his head stone he had written william h. johnson, citizen. he didn't call him caddy, he called him citizen. vampire slayer. and why are you looking so impressed? >> i'm going to see this movie. >> ooh. big old vampires for you, baby, it's okay. >> mika, the more people that get interested in abraham linco lincoln, if this brings young people to want to know more about his life -- i always feel that way about movies. some people are prissy. oh, not exactly reality. but if you get interested in this great man and want to learn more about him, i think it's great.

>> i'm with it. ms. gilmore, i agree 100%. >> doris, back to the at particular attic, you've got to revise the book. >> she went to bed with him every night for ten years and didn't know that. >> see that? >> can we get a consensus, one of the three greatest guests of all-time. >> do i get a new benz out of it? is that what's happening? >> i'll give you a mug. >> "abraham lincoln: vampire hunter" out in theatres tomorrow. how could you not see it? >> i'm going finish my starbucks. >> see you. up next, the weekly jobs numbers. business before the bell ♪ [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day

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all right. live look on top of the rock. rockefeller plaza. time now for business before the bell with cnbc's brian shactman. unemployment claims? >> why not start there. good to see you guys. been a while. futures are slightly higher. jobless claims a little bit better than expected. but still, with 387,000, it's still much higher than a lot of analysts want to see below 400,000, which is okay, but above 350. so it's one of those things where clearly the economy, the jobs market, has slowed down a little bit. and yesterday fed chairman ben bernanke basically backed that up. growth is slowing, and they continued what they call operation twist and i won't get inside baseball but keeping rates lower. and they say quantitative easing is on the table. no one is talking recession here, guys, but clearly our economy is slowing, and there are worries that china is slowing down, europe's issues, and we're going to have some issues moving forward. >> brian, quickly, speaking of inside baseball, do you think the fact that papi had a grand

slam last night will have any impact on the market today? >> well, i bought stock. if they trade youkilis, i'm going to buy more stock. and if ellsbury comes back, i'm going to buy more stock. >> brian shactman. thank you very much. up next, the best of late-night. we'll be right back. ♪music plays throughout summer in new york state has something different for everyone to love. discover what you love. visit ilovenewyork.com to plan your summer trip now.

havi ng a n irregular heartbeat havi called atrial fibrillation ng a puts you at 5 times greater risk of stroke. don't wait. go to afibstroke.com for a free discussion guide to help you talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. that's afibstroke.com. ...more talk on social security... ...but washington isn't talking to the american people. [ female announcer ] when it comes to the future of medicare and social security, you've earned the right to know. ♪ ...so what does it mean for you and your family? [ female announcer ] you've earned the facts. ♪

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♪ president obama, mitt romney and even joe biden have been trying out a new batch of slogans. i don't think they're there quite yet. >> maybe i wasn't born in this country, but i'll sign up to fight for it. >> i'm not a person of core values. i don't have a core. >> take whatever you can from whomever you can. >> guess what. i made a lot of money. >> we can't do it. we can't do it. >> i believe that america is just another place on the map with a flag. >> i declare i'm a total bumbling idiot. >> guess who is going to pay that? not me. i'm gone. >> forget about your [ bleep ]. forget about that stuff. >> if you've got a shirt on, as the guys in the room at least do, and the gals have tops, i guess you call them. >> i don't quite get this. >> i'm not sure precisely

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learned today. willie geist. >> number one, today is the birthday of a man who remembers everybody else's birthdays, mike allen. >> mike allen. >> happy birthday. >> happy birthday, mike! >> we have to put him in. >> how old is mike? >> older than mike allen knows. >> he's a great guy. >> he's great. >> what have you learned? ♪ get off the floor >> abraham lincoln, vampire slayer. who knew? >> i'm telling you, that movie, they're going to sell tickets. >> sorry, hunter. >> slays after he hunts. >> i'm telling you, this thing is going to be big. what have you learned, mike? >> i learned anthony mackie who stars in the movie beat me out on getting a lease deal from mercedes when i wasn't watching. >> really? >> you know how he feels about that. >> what are you doing over there? what are you doing? wait. -- >> i don't want anything to do with you all. and mike barnicle, i think this would be a good time for you to commit to making a donation of