they are? >> as you know, martin, the house is under a bit of renovation around here. >> would you like to tell us who the guests are? come on. >> listen, are you going to join us tomorrow, will you come hang out at your new house? i want to show you where the bathroom is, a special closet in the back. i got some cool stuff. >> i'm not sure i'm going to be able to do that, there are some other issues that have come up, but if not, i'm sure that the viewers have been interested. >> you're not even sure, t the day before and you're not sure. whether you can join me tomorrow. >> you know it's a tough thing. there are pressures that weigh upon me, but you're an important individual as you know and we've had this greeting and meeting for the last 17 months and you still won't tell me who your four guests are. >> who put me in charge of msnbc? >> who are the guests on your

show today? just tell the viewers, dylan. they want to know. >> the show does start now. good afternoon to you. we begin today as we often do with the push for 30 million jobs, the feds saying it does expect the reading of 8.2% unemployment to hold throughout the election, of course the real rate holding double that number and when you get into the sub demographics, black unemployment, youth unemployment, veteran unemployment, you can really see some stunningingly disturbing numbers. and the heat continues to rise under the individuals that proclaim to be in charge of the government of this country and their efforts to create jobs for those who live here, whether that is their responsibility or not and what their role is in that is obviously fundamental to that debate.

our dynamic duo is back one last time. peter and jared bernstein, who have obviously been long time sources in my own career before even getting a chance to work with them here at msnbc and it's a pleasure to have you guys with us here on the way out. if you look at the nature of the debate, basically a version of shares assumptioassumptions, wh all do between now and the election to raise the temperature on both candidates? to avoid getting trapped in the belief that my, that's red sox yankees scenario, this is getting steroids out of baseball scenario. this is a league issue as opposed to a team issue and interested to hear from both of you as to who you would make that clear to both political candidates. jared? >> first of all, before i answer the question, let me say this is a little bit emotional because you and i go back to cnbc days

and we've covered a ton of ground together. good question. >> you got to go to the white house, so that's pretty good. >> that's true. but we don't know what your future holds. >> let's hope i don't get in there. >> look, i think the thing that's most clear to me coming off of your question is that austerity measures don't work. europe is a great natural experiment, but we're going to same thing here. the state and local level, the federal level. the president has mentioned some jobs measures. they're not going to get through congress. so i think the direct answer to your question is it's very tough to get through this gridlock based on kind of bottom up pressure, but that's the only way i can see it. the the idea is that we're try austerity. it's not working, folks. and that kind of bottom up noise would be useful right now. >> the universal principle for

both candidates in this election? >> certainly stimulus doesn't work either. we had a big stimulus plan. gave us a period of grace, but we didn't use it to fix what's broke. namely, the energy sector, drilling for more oil and trade with china, which is something we all agree about. the next president or next term of this president will have to focus on those things or america won't find its way home. >> obviously, let's look at human decision making. food, sex and the path of least resistance. that's how humans function and organize. so what we're really looking at here is path of least resistance. specifically in the belief that i can keep my job longer by doing nothing than by risk my job by doing something and there's a point where it becomes so painful that you do the opposite. that's sort of human forever, right? >> i've heard the president all day out running against the do nothing congress. there's actually something to

that because obviously there are measures that he's tried to put in place that in many ways were intended to ensure against the kinds of problems we're facing now. the american jobs act in 2011. i kind of agree with peter in a sense and you've made these comments as well. at this point, forward looking probably means evaluating the kind of platforms of both sides. i know that there are aspects of those platforms on both sides that neither of you like much, but i think that from the perspective of president obama, recognizing that the policy set that governor romney continues to promote trickle l down supply side has been a huge mess an the president like it or not, and he's right about this. the president has tried to stress there's a role for government when the market fails. >> peter? >> we've had a lot of government. maybe too much of it. i don't think congress can be blamed for not passing more stimulus when we've had so much of it. the real problem here is some of

the things that mr. obama talked about doing an that mr. romney promises to do. again, going back to trade with china, genuine bank reform. it's very hard to get a loan these days. it was so pathetic yesterday though that the federal reserve was out of bullets. it was gone from can ons to rifles to bows and arrows to throwing stones and pebbles and marbles and so forth. it has nothing left. that's usually the sign that an economy is headed for trouble. you can't add any more liquidity to get a result. >> the fed is trying, but they're push on a string. interest rates are already low. we have lots of cash reserves, close to 2 trillion for that matter. the price of borrowing is low, so if you're targeting that, i'm not really sure you're going to move the needle much at all and that's why i keep coming back to the fiscal side of this. i disagree with peter that we've done a bunch of stimulus and it hasn't worked.

a, it's helped, but we haven't done enough and we've shut it off too soon. >> there's a third phenomenon that i feel has been revealed to me as a reporter over the past three years. 27 cities, all this stuff, and it's basically a third way where folks are more ruthless in their mission analysis, more clear in their imagination and are getting a lot more of whatever it is for a lot less. that is not something that can be ledgelated, that the central government phenomenon. that is a cultural shift. marines deciding to grow food differently. individuals doing more self-generated power, which leads me to the belief there's a false split, that the left right spotlig split is outdated. that it is left, right or distributed and you have people on the left and right both in favor of a more distributed power base and then there's other folks who believe we

should need consolidated power and then to fight over who should have that power and it's hard for me to see how the distributed power ultimately doesn't take up more of the resource and responsibility simply because it's what's happening. >> you know, i like where you're coming from in the sense that it really does feel pretty old to be arguing about left right. monetary stimulus, fiscal stimulus. more jobs act, fewer jobs act. deficit versus growth. austerity. i do feel it's all those debates are quite old. what i have trouble with is figuring out what your idea looks like on the ground. i mean for somebody who's kind of struggling, trying to pay the mortgage, maybe the job is disappearing. >> a classic example, which is these are about people who make decisions, right? on monday, we have colin, three tours in iraq. got a novel farm with his wife. water bill is $1250 a month. finds this on the internet while

serving in iraq. finds he's got a $1200 water bill and he has more incentive than the three of us will ever had because he owns an avocado form and doesn't want to pay for it. really the the only common trade is educational more than policy, which is those cultures that do a good first step analysis that have, that are ruthless in understanding where they are are the the only ones that will get these mass resource expansions because if we're not ruthless about where we are, it's impossible to mix the parts. unless he's honest, i've got an avocado form, i don't have the money. where as we seem to be more prone to a denial culture that says oel, well, it's not that bad. this isn't apollo 13. it's not that bad. where as the people solving problems don't have that privilege. colin can't say, oh, the water bill isn't that high. it is that high.

he has been able to engage and resolve it with the resources he has as opposed to trying to revolve it with the resources he doesn't. >> the culture of denial is alive and well in the white house. there should be a sense in that place that they're trying to change. what they've tried so far, has it work, but i would have to say that there was the same cultural denial in the bush administration until the house of cards came down completely. once you get into that place, it is very hard to change what you think about the world and to change your policy direction because the events are so fren etic. there are so many demands o the man's time. but a president who doesn't even speak to his own party and leaders is very insular. is not going to be in a position to change what he thinks. that is a real shortcoming. >> interesting point because if you believe we're stuck in the kind of gridlock that you've

focused on so much, i think you're right. the solution has got to come from the grass roots bottom up, from individualing taking core responsibleties. >> and self-generated power something possible? all these things that exist and the differences in other countries like germany, which we're going to talk about tomorrow, the government changed regulation so if you generate your own power means you can sell it back to them. in this country, if i put a solar on my house, i can't make rent checks off the grid. little changes like that i think go a long way. thank you so much for being teachers. >> take care of yourself, dylan. >> of course. i feel like -- the president calling on congress to stop student interest loans from doubling. what can stupts and their parents expect when july 1st ticks? we'll ask our thursday megapanel.

plus, a true option 2012 update. where the candidates stand in the race for mula and -- recognize that music? a little new kids on the block for all ofs this thursday afternoon. there's your tease for a big announcement. the folks at msnbc will make later this hour. our cloud is not soft and fluffy. our cloud is made of bedrock. concrete. and steel. our cloud is the smartest brains combating the latest security threats. it spans oceans, stretches continents. and is scalable as far as the mind can see. our cloud is the cloud other clouds look up to. welcome to the uppernet. verizon.

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we're ten days away from nearly 7.5 million students

seeing their loan rates double because koncongress hasn't acte. this should be a no brainer. it should not be difficult. it should have gotten done weeks ago. >> well, the president today urging congress to stop interest rates from doubling next week seems like the least they can do when you consider the current state of the jobs market and unemployment in general. especially for young americans. 30% of kids leaving college without a job or one they are grossly overqualified for. many more end up living back with their parents. the number of adult children living with mom and dad increased by over a million and now for the last time, we are welcoming our thursday megapanel back into our home. karen finney, susan and jimmy williams. obl, susan, this is a big deal. obviously, the interest rate debate between republicans and democrats on one form of student financing is a side show in

comparison to what we know about learning. we had sebastian on from sanford and google. all these things and yet we're locked in this insane, it's like we're fighting over dinosaur bone from 1850 because it's all we know how to do. >> yet again, it's a great press release because they will come together, figure it out and pass something and that will be one of their crowning achievements. >> full deal making. >> what's up with actual real deal making? >> you create the the vulnerable tribe. >> right. >> which is the students who cannot afford to do this. and then you -- >> parents. >> and that's the hostage. you hold the hostage up and then you save the hostage and everybody's a hero for saving the hostage, but the whole ship is still sinking. >> my niece just graduated from high school a few weeks ago. beautiful. captain of our soccer team, whole nine yards. she announced she is not going to college the first year.

she's going to work in her job, save her money and go next year. my brother could in the be more relieved. the cost of college tuition -- >> deterrent. >> the a problem in america. >> the other problem though is that we know that you know, again, lifetime earning better if you have a college education and one of the highest reasons kids are dropping out is because of their loans, unfortunately. so then you don't have a college education. the reason though i partially agree with susan that we're going to have action because it's an election year. the students vote and parents vote. both sides realize we better not piss off the voters ultimately. and that's part of why we're going to get some action. >> or energize them. >> the problem, part of the problem has been is that the house side wants to put this on is weight of preventive health care services.

hopefully, we can move away from that. >> the whole point of this entire tv show going back to look at the blogs from this week with the farmer, sebastian from google, what is possible and what's being achieved are these quantum expansions in resource release for huge reductions in resource expenditure and yet we're loft in 1850 talking about something that is is, was wonderful and we are, should be grateful for, but is the problem. not the solution. any way, perpetuating the problem while almost all of us more or less have some agreement that the need for meaningful expansion is in order, the greatest barrier to any of that is is the capacity to finance the close two-party political system with money from those most threatened by any of the changes that we talk and.

those people have the most incentiveto the politicians to the crazy things people talk about never, ever happen ever, ever, ever and you should take it as a good sign that the dollars they're raising are going up because it means that the cost of preventing change is getting higher. so they're basically as we become more aware of how screwed up it is and how much needs to be done, the price that the special interests have to pay to buy off the government, to make sure that everything is doesn't happen is going higher, which is my really perverted way of interpreting the high fund raising totals on both sides because it does suggest there's a lot of money to bid to make sure nobody does anything. >> it does, not only when we look at those totals that actually the team romney, i think this is the first time a sitting president's going to be outraised fund raising wise.

>> that's not true. thest the rnc. sfwl that's the point i'm trying to get to. so what the campaign, remember now, it's a joint committee between the campaign and committee and the outside money is where frankly team romney is -- >> rnc's got all the money. dnc's not doing anything. obama -- portional. >> the money on the republican side -- >> is where the juice is. >> what you're seeing on the democratic side is -- >> on the obama side. >> so, it's the smaller donations or amounts -- >> but don't give me the small donation thing. obama gets most of his money from seven people. it's a genius marketing trick. >> that's not true. >> there's a reason 200 people provide 80% of the money. my point is there has been a cover-up from barack obama and mitt romney's trying to do it now, where you like get a million people to give me a

dollar. one guy to give me a billion dollars. i've got a million small donors, but i'm beholden to the guy with a billion dollars. i think people are catching on. look at the statistics. >> i'm looking at the breakdown of the numbers on the obama side, there are more donors -- >> what about from dollar. it's about dollars per donor. >> unfettered access to mitt romney this weekend. >> the fact is if obama could get the same checks the republicans is, are getting right now, he would take them. >> i got two shows left. the reason i want to quit is because arguing about who's the lead corrupt person is the dumbest use of my time i've ever used because most of my life has been spent with people who want to solve a problem. i'm not making this up. they want to build a house. they want to make a tv show. they want to do anything. this is the p om theatre, jimmy, of problem solving in in country that i have seen where the entire conversation is who is

the least toxic and corrupt in the bunch and is going to screw us over the least and that is an insult to the people of this country. am i missing something? is there an honor in washington, d.c. that i don't see? >> not so much. i think a couple of things. this redefines the current state of the money in politics. redefines raising the stakes. because we are now going to see something unprecedented. now, when nixon ran back in the '60s and '70s, they said exactly is tame thing. we have to get to a point and john mccain has predicted this, we must get to a point where the drunk runs over and kills a small child. where congress becomes so in the wrong -- >> john mccain took plenty of money when he was running. >> i'm not suggesting john mccain's running, but i'm saying the drunk has to hit rock bottom. >> i'm standing up and saying don't let the drunk hit rock bottom. >> you and i have been saying it

for almost two years now. it's not going to happen until they run over the small child. >> make the people giving the money toxic to the people taking it. >> that's happened. >> it's not -- >> what lobbiest has looked at and i've defended -- >> it's not happening. >> my point is this. a 2500 check and a grandmother's exec is -- >> she's saying the change of money. is acceptable. >> i wasn't trying to defend -- >> fair enough. they're all corrupt. everyone's corrupt in the money game so take the money out. that's the point. >> see i get all emotional. >> not emotional. >> everybody stays, we're all friends. our specialist trading on the trading floor for a science lab and he's going to tell us what

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we've all seen the the impact of financial risk on our every day lives over the past few years especially from rampant greed to fear to system attic struck flaw, but what if it as simple at human biology? our expert says there is a science between who is and isn't willing to take risks and it is because of that science it is no wonder there are so many college athletes on wall street trading floors, not to mention a variety of other predictable outcomes than you might anticipate. joining us now, john coates, author of "the hour between dog

and wolf." you were just explaining to us this is an age old metaphor for the twilight period when you don't know if it's a friend or foe in the shadows. >> refers also to a moment of transformation when back in the middle ages, they thought something tame, a dog could transform into a wolf or a human into something more dangerous. >> and in this case, the moment when we make our very intimate decisions and taking on more chances with whatever's so valuable to us or avoiding those risks. true? >> i noticed when i was running a trading desk that when traders got on a winning streak, they changed. it was a fundamental transformation, so i used the expression hour between dog and wolf to refer to a point where a trader on a winning strike goes from taking prudent risks to foolish risks.

>> another interesting thing, the chemical reaction happening in the body. is that relatable, we've seen a lot of powerful people in the last several years take a big risk and lose it all. a former governor of this state, a former congressman? is it the same in other parts of our lives? >> absolutely. i originally started looking at traders. i firmly believed it was a biological reaction shifting our appetite for risk. the book i've written is about traders. but you can sub stitute -- we se how do you define it? what is the biology of risk taking in the simplest sense? >> in a sense, you could say our biology has been designed to sustain this taking. one of the reasons, the food chain is that we're so good at taking risks and more importantly, we love taking

risks. something pushes us out of our habitat, go across the oceans to go up into space. we love taking risks. the biology on balance is really effective. it gives us incredibly fast reactions. when we're playing a sport or reacting to information in the financial markets, we're reacting farther than our brain can come up with. these guide our risk taking, but the biology sometimes can become unbalanced. when you're in situations of outrageous opportunity like winning streak in the market, you can have these surges of testosterone which cause you to take too much risk. >> john edwards, eliot spitzer. >> so, women in theory, could be a much -- have a very positive influence on the trading floor because they'll probably be more steady and not necessarily go

out for everything -- >> notice the pride in her -- you would think she's asking a question, but she's really making a prideful statement. >> she is leading you. >> and older men, you also said. those are steady forces and would it be wise for businesses to have to be a little more diverse to keep them more steady? >> i think so. you get kind of extreme behave when you isolate one segment of the pop lulation. you put a bunch of young guys together, in south africa, they have a problem with young elephants. they found they've got to kill them or bring in an elder male and it comes the rogues down. >> it may not be that complicated. you just need an older elephant to hang around. >> the more pushing this policy. >> go ahead. >> so, susan touched on the female-male thing. i saw on tv somewhere the other

day, the woman that invented spanx, the business model was to create a great product and the public would buy it. they had a dude on the same show and he said my job is to kill everybody that's in my business. >> in materiterms of the intent. >> to susan's point. are women, i get that women are steady, probably more cautious in a way. >> there's a lot of generalizations on this. >> no, but listen. >> a lot of generalizations. >> my question is do women approach things differently than men and why? why is it? is it chemical? hormonal? brain? all of the above? >> what have you got? >> i'd love to be able to answer your question, i can't. i went back to become a scientist. i try not to stray too far from the data. i know that's not the answer you want.

>> but there is something in this that speaks to the importance of integrated tribal groups that balanced groups of powerful young men, steady, elder men, charismatic and creative women, steady women. whatever the -- whatever it is, that it's sort of mixture of things that probably the ideal cultural construct. >> i'd like to agree with that. >> i got that. got that. >> you better. they're sitting across -- stupid for god sakes. >> the book is "the hour between dog and wolf." it's been a delight to work with the three of you. thank you very much and for making the show much better than it would have been if you decided not tho show up. >> any time. >> and congrats on the book. straight ahead, getting the most violent crime and the most

crime riddled neighborhoods to simply stop shooting each other for almost no money at all. results that will utterly change the way you think about crime after this. when i found out my irregular heartbeat put me at 5 times greater risk of a stroke, my first thoughts were about my wife, and my family. i have the most common type of atrial fibrillation, or afib. it's not caused by a heart valve problem. i was taking warfarin, but my doctor put me on pradaxa instead

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starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. let me show you something new. come on. walmart can now convert your favorite dvds from disc to digital. so you can watch them on your laptop, tablet, phone...anytime, anywhere. cool, huh? yea! yea! what'd you guys think that it would cost? i thought it'd be around $10. it's only $2 per disc. that's a great price. bring in your favorite dvds. see for yourself. -boooom! -boooom! [ host ] sign up at walmartentertainment.com today and get six free movies. that's the walmart entertainment disc to digital service. the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number.

he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us. obviously getting close. two days until i take everything that we've been taught here on the show and look to turn it into action, bring it back in a way that hopefully is that much more impactful. if you've been watching the past couple of days, a number of profound discoveries prevail in our country from farming to learning where a lot, lot bigger outputs are achieved through much, much smaller inputs through much more intelligent and ruthless problem solving and this week, we've been shine iin the slight on community heroes proving to all of us that we can

use new tools to solve old problems and in the process, get a lot more, pretty much anything, for a lot less and today's wow statistic may be the most profound we've discovered in the history of our reporting with this show. imagine it was possible to get any community to stop shooting each other with reduction rates as much 50 or 60% by spending almost no money. no incarceration, none. communities actually doing this. people are actually doing this right now in this country. we have two things however they pretty much share in common. one, they establish a clear understanding of community standards. there's a social -- and two, an effective use of deterrent. that is a clear understanding of how to use deterrent. the personal community based approach that is being used is truly the opposite of our current paradigm, lock them up and forget them. here to explain more is david

kennedy, who has been a pioneering force professor of criminology at john jay here in new york and author of "don't shoot." you say understand how to use deterrents. one, what do you mean when you say community standard? >> you talk about hot spots a lot. by the way, it'm going to miss this show. nice to be here. the neighborhoods where this violence is concentrated are angry minority neighborhoods. they've got good reason to be angry. historically, presently, all kinds of good reasons. what that means in a lot of them is that the public narrative is we're angry at the police, the outside, at the cia for bringing the drugs in. that's not a good message for the 5% of the young men who are likely to tear the place up to

hear. if we can move from that to a public stand in which mothers and grandmothers and homicide survivors and neighborhood elders say to the 5%, don't do this, we care about you, but we need you to stop the gun play. >> even better, help us instead of killing us. >> we want you to be a strong part of the community. you're powerful, important people. we need you on the right side of things. that's transformtive and very meaningful on the ground. i say to cops a lot of the time, i can have a roomful of narcotics cops. i can say raise your hand if you grew up afraid of the police. five will raise their hand. raise your hand if you grew up afraid of your mother? everybody raises their hand. it's very well. this is what social scientists call informal social control. it's way more powerful than cops and prisons. >> it's basically tribal principle. >> it's the way good communities work. good communities have their own

rules, norms, standards, whatever you want to call them and when they're not enough and they're never always enough, then we want to police and the courts to come in and play back-up. what we've especially been doing in these neighborhoods, we've been leading with the cops, the courts, with prisons and it silences those community voices and damages the neighborhoods. >> silences the ones you most need to safe the 5%, the risk pool. >> what you want is all the people who are either what we would think of as righteous or on the edge. >> coach, ministers. with the 5%. >> yeah, you find that of the street guys, nine out of ten want to be safe. they love their mother. they don't want to get killed. they don't want to go to prison. we need to make it easy for them to do and say the right thing and you can. >> huge second component here, which goes to the bankrupting of

incarceration, goes to the embarrassing incarceration of young black men specifically in this country. it goes to the funding and training of prison culture as russell simmons my times where we've reintroduced prison culture into previously healthy communities making them more toxic because we're training, it's crazy. all this is done in the name of crime deterring. you're saying that the paradigm, it's not just you, operation hope, all these groups, that the paradigm has been grossly misunderstood and misapplied. that deterrence is is critical. >> deterrence is not enforcement. enforcement is failed deterrence. it's what you do when it doesn't work and all of our conversation about deterrence is about

sanctions. if you're not getting the impact we want on the street, our instikt is is to jack is sanctions up and now, we've got huge federal penalties. >> triple three strikes. >> you can replace that on a good day just with information. you don't have to do anything. >> give me an example. >> so, you know this guy's running around in the neighborhood. the federal prosecutors have a target on his back. he's the guy they most want to take off the street. normally, what we do is hide in the bushes and wait until he -- and scoop him off and goes up for 30 years. you can sit down with him and say you've got a target on your back. and if you do any of the five following thing, you're going to end up at -- and it turns out as a matter of fact that these guys are smart enough not to play in traffic. >> meaning if there's prior

engagement with the highest, the priority targets, criminals, whatever the -- identifications, that meeting with those people before they do what you're afraid they're going to do is a much better way to get them not to do it. almost seems stupid. >> they are used to be treated, being treated with disrespect and having people jump out of the shadows and take them away. if you treat them as adults with respect, tell them what's coming, tell them how to step out of the way of that. it turns out as a matter of imperical fact, that huge numbers will pay attention to that and the prior notice and the respect are equally important. if we treat people like adults. if we expect them to rise to the occasion and act like adults, rather than treating them like children or sociopaths or

psyc psychopaths, people respond to this. and if you also give them good information about what their future holds and if those are bad things, how to avoid those bad things, it turns out that as a matter of imperical fact, they respond to that. >> this would be absurd to bother to have this conversation in public on television. in any culture in the world. what you're talking about is master apprentice. responsibility in communities to manage youth power. which is a natural force, fair? >> it's not what the television conversation is usually about, but if you go to the communities, the communities who are being battered both by the violence and by our arresting everybody, they want to talk about responsibility. they're ready. >> well, it seems like it's time to do some talking, huh? thank you. very much for your --

>> thanks for everything. >> it's been my pleasure to help more people understand the work you're doing, so thank you. david kennedy, the book is "don't shoot" and we will again be putting out a bunch of playbooks tomorrow, which will include some of the highlights from today's conversation. next up here however, the doctor is in. our last session on the kass' couch. hey. hey eddie. i brought your stuff. you don't have to do this. yes i do. i want you to keep this. it'd be weird. take care. you too. [ sighs ] so how did it go? he's upset. [ male announcer ] spend less time at gas stations. with best in class fuel economy. it's our most innovative altima ever. ♪

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do you have trouble gains trust in relationships? your husband, your wife, boyfriend, girlfriend? letting your guard down, exposing vulnerability -- maybe even a tv audience. joining us now, noah kass with some tips on building a new relationship and maybe a new old paradigm. >> authenticity on, honesty, transparency. those are the keys to meaningful relationships. if you have meaningful relationships, then you can create change. this has been a theme we've been talking about over and over again in our conversations. the subjects may have varied,

but the themes stayed the same and your show and you specifically have been the living embodiment of that. >> you know my whole life, but it is no question for me into learning this particular practice of communicating to a publ public, people don't listen to who they don't trust and people know so much now. >> if you're not going to give credit to yourself, will you allow me to give credit? you did something different on this program than most that most people don't do. you really, really respected your audience. you allowed them into the circle. you often and people have always asked me, what's dylan like? he has a lot of opinions, he speaks pretty loud. yes, he does have a lot of opinions about a lot of things, but that's not what his show is about. it's also about allowing other people to have a lot of opinions

about a lot of things and if you are willing to engage him with the same passion that he has for your subject, then he's all in and you did that with your get the money out. with your job tour. with the way you advocated for veterans works back home with helping protect the environment. you didn't have to do that on this show. you could have stuck to the talking points. but you didn't do that and that's something to be admired and something you shouldn't take lightly. >> that means a lot. those were choices and choices that i made with steve friedman and the staff, understanding we had a privilege to be rented some real estate from nbc, who gave us the opportunity to do this. >> i would say you and everyone out there has more than a privilege. they have an obligation. if you're given a platform like this, you can choose to use it various ways. you can play the expert mantle and talk down to your audience.

but you didn't. you actually cared about our, i'm an audience member. i'm a fan. you actually cared about our passions. you actually cared about our interests. you actual thought our experiences mattered just as much if not more than yours. and we've always talked about that on air and off air. that you've learned more from people that had nothing in common with you. >> i had to quit my job after i learned so much. >> i know. >> it was -- and it was interesting. but i think there's something in that, which is willingness to once you realize every person you meet knows something you don't. once you say i am excited for today because i'm going to get to meet whoever i'm going to meet and whoever i meet, i 100% guarantee you, knows a number of things. there's no question they know a few things that are really interesting and useful to me that i don't know. >> you promise me right now

you'll keep being vulnerable and open. just give me the promise. >> the self-loathing that i bear so much, it's impossible for it not to happen. you have the promise. >> thank you. >> it's been a pleasure. i appreciate it, noah. and thank you for making the show better and thank you for your remarkably generous words and it's, listen. i got a time clock here. >> let's play "hardball." >> coming up, mitt romney addressing latino leaders today, but first, the big reveal. meet the new kids on the block, my friends. who will be taking the new chair in the afternoon on msnbc? the network has given us the privilege of revealing to you their official identity and we will do so with gusto right after this. to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ?

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all right. breaking news this afternoon here at msnbc. phil griffin who runs the place has given us the privilege and if you've watched the show or paid attention to twitter, social media, when i leave here after tomorrow, my friend, martin bashir will move into the 4:00 time slot as of monday of next week. primer, two coats of paint. meanwhile, 3:00, the four will be launched. who are the four? one, you know quite well. in fact, all four. you know him from his appearances here on the mega panel and for his difficulty on the mega panel.