close in the vote, but it was nowhere near close to being wrong. i think that we cannot have children treated at the same level that we treat mature adults who know clearly what they're doing. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. playing half-court. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. let me start tonight with this hot issue of immigration. the supreme court today took a whack at the arizona law declaring part of it unconstitutional. it left standing the requirement that police check on the immigration sta stus of someone they stop for a possible violation who the police officer suspects is in the country illegally. will this drive people to the

polls this november? will it ignite fury that the republican packed high court is in league with the pro-self-deporting mitt romney? joining me now is the mayor of los angeles, chairman of the upcoming democratic national convention and john heilemann of new york magazine and top msnbc political analyst. gentlemen, i want you to look at this bit now. it's a quote from harry reid. he had strong words about the provision the court left standing today. let's listen to the leader. >> i just say to you, mr. president and to anyone and the sound of my voice, someone with my skin color or yours, i don't think you're going to be carrying your immigration papers with you ever place you go, but if you're in arizona and you speak with a little bit of an accent or your skin color the brown, you better have your papers with you. that's unfortunate. >> mayor, thank you so much for joining us. and your twin capacities and

chairman of the democratic national convention coming up in charlotte. it's an honor to have you on the show. how did you react? maybe bigger question, how will the democratic party react today on the ruling on the arizona law? >> well, this was a partial victory for the idea that president obama and the justice department articulated. that is there's federal preemption here with respect to immigration laws. they struck down three of those provisions. that they left standing the one that says when they're stopped for a legal stop, they can ask for your papers. that is very problematic. i don't see any way to implement that decision without profiling. and without violating the constitution. but what they left open is court challenges and further litigation on that matter. i think we'd like to get this out of the campaign. i think we'd like to get this in the congress where it should be, they ought to fix this broken

immigration system. governor romney ought to join president obama in calling on both houses, both parties, to work together to pass a dream act and pass comprehensive immigration reform. >> well, it's not happening. let me go to john heilemann. one reason it's not happening is that both parties have problems with a really tough solution. it's going to be difficult for both sides to reach an agreement on the immigration situation. a fair, enforceable immigration law. it's very hard to get to that. employers, of course, want cheap labor. the cheapest possible and sometimes great labor. people who just got here and are undercover. operating off the books and the question is do the democrats really want to go with enforcement if they don't have the democrats joining hands with them? it's very hard for one party to pass a law of any kind with sanctions on it that the other party doesn't go along with because then you're blamed by community that's effected. john hileman, is this going to be a burning issue this

egregious thing that forces a policeman to stop a driver who has a bad taillight on his car. he stops him or her. basically, not a big crime. let's put it that way, and then has to ask them for their immigration papers because they have an accent or look that suggests they might be from somewhere else or any reason for doing it. it gets into profiling. is this going to be a hot issue going into the conventions and election? >> chris, i don't think this is specifically going to be a hot issue. although i think it is part of a broader set of issues that the obama operation, the campaign and the white house, will try to exploit in terms of pointing out the stark differences between where the white house is and where mitt romney is on issues related to hispanic voters especially in a lot of these important swing states. arizona is not quite a swing state though will be relatively soon. maybe next election, maybe the

election after that. >> who's going to vote? you're a political analyst. i am, too. not of your greatness perhaps, but who comes out of this result and says damn it, i'm going to vote for sure this time because. who's most lickly to do that because of today? people angry about the fact they left standing the requirement that cops stop people because they look a certain way or the fact that they went the other way on the other provisions and got rid of them, no, you're still planning federal law here. who's this going to ignite? anybody? >> well, chris, i think -- look, as i said, it is part of a broader set of issues, right? i don't know that there are that many hispanic voters who are going to be driven to the polls by this issue specifically. i think there are some who are going to be driven to the polls by a constellation of issues where the obama administration is going to draw a contrast. that is one of the most important things president obama has going for him. the keystones to how they hope to win re-election. he's going to hit that issue

hard as you saw today mitt romney released a statement in which he did not say what he thought of the supreme court ruling and he did not get on camera today. he took no questions. his spokes people refused to answer the question about what he thought about the ruling. that tells you about the vulnerability is seen. he thinks this issue is an issue that's radio active for him. anytime he's talking about immigration, it's bad for him because he's in a bad place. >> mayor react to this. here's mitt romney when he said today, which is nothing. it was noncommittal. quote, president obama has failed to provide any leadership on immigration. i believe each state has the duty and right to secure our borders and rule of law. particularly when the federal government has failed to meet its responsibilities. and talking to reporters on his way to arizona today, romney spokesperson was no more helpful. let's watch him and then mayor react to what i don't think is a real strong statement from romney. >> does he have a reaction as to

whether he agrees to this decision? so -- >> states out there have the right to craft their immigration policy if the federal government has failed to do so. i'll say it again and again and again for you. the governor understands that states have their own right on drafting policies to secure their own borders to address illegal immigration. >> mayor, it looks to me like the democrats have an easy walk here because it looks to me like your party is in strong position with the latino voter for the simple reason the other side has basically forfeited the credibility, the allegiance and it's hard to say a dramatic statement, but when you're coming off forced deportation, go ahead. your words. your thoughts. >> that's exactly right, chris. you hit it right on the head. virtually everybody covering governor romney today has said what they've said all week. that he's been evasive, refused to answer.

what we do know is this. he's refused to answer whether or not he would overturn the president's decision to defer action on the dreamers. what we do know is he said repeatedly he would veto the dream act. he continues to point at the president, but has never put forth his own comprehensive immigration plan. we know he could get it out of the campaign right now. let's call on the congress to do their job. it's very clear. he walks around with chris coback, the author of the alabama law. and even in e in statement today, he's saying every state should have they be own laws. should have the right to pass their own laws in counter distinction to the supreme court which reaffirmed that we have preemption on this issue, the federal government, so he continues to maintain clearly that alabama and arizona laws are a model for the nation, he'd veto the dream act. that's the wrong way to go. we're talking about real people

that have lived here their whole lives. we're talking about dividing families. we can create another path. a bipartisan path. >> let's take a look at this. during the primaries, romney had positive things to say about the arizona law. let's listen to him here. >> i think you see a model here in arizona. they passed a law here that says people who come here and try and find work, that the employer is required to look them up, e-verify. going back to the question asked, the right course for america is to drop these lawsuits against arizona and other states that are trying to do the job barack obama isn't doing. >> well, he didn't want to have a court decision and here he is saying he supports the law because the federal government has failed to lead on the issue. take a listen here. >> i support the arizona law for recognizing that what arizona has done underscores the failure of the federal government to do its job. it has been the responsibility of the federal government to

protect our borders and the federal government has failed. >> you have to be objective on this. i'll give you one more chance to slice this. back in '64, barry goldwater came out against the civil rights bill. by taking that position, he basically told the african-american community, forget about it. i'm not with you on the most important thing in the world to you right now which is civil rights, public accommodations, access to restaurant and hotels and gas station restrooms and all that came with it. all those freedoms that come with being an american. it seems like this time, it's pretty much the same thing only romney's saying i'm not with you and i'm just not with you in your sentiments. i'm going to go with the anglos, i'm going to go with the other side and put my chip money on the working class white guy who's ticked at you. i'm going the other way. you just lost with me. i've never seen a candidate take sides so clearly. >> i'll try to be objective, but my analytical point is the same. he has a huge problem because

the position he's taken with the hispanic community. he's right now polling in the mid 20s. you can't win a national election polling with given the size of the hispanic vote and in certain key states, you can't win with that kind of number. one of the most serious political imperatives mitt romney has is to try to fix his problem with the hispanic community. what he has done is dig himself in deeper rather than fixing that problem. and i think nothing about what happened today helped him with the hispanic community. nothing that's helped in the course of the past ten days has helped him with the hispanic community. the way he's handled it has made the problem worse. whether you cast in the moral, historical terms that you do or in the narrower political terms i do, it's still a huge problem because the hispanic community as you suggested does not been mitt romney is by and large with it. >> okay. well said. let me go to -- >> actually, i think this goes beyond the hispanic community. i think people who care about a

just, humane immigration policy that enforces our borders, but gives us a pathway to citizenship is much broader than just latinos or democrats. >> i think you're right. among independents too. let me ask you while i've got you, my friend, it's an honor to have you on, but let me tail you this. aye got to nail you. when the democrats write their platform this summer on same-sex, will you endorse a state by state approach or a federal law that guarantees the right of people to mary someone of the same sex? will it be federal or state by state the party will support? >> i think i've made it fairly clear. i think that marriage equality is a fundamental liberty that the federal government and our constitution ought to protect. i've made that very clear. you're not nailing me to anything, my friend. i believe in that. i think it's about family values. i think we ought to keep families together on the immigration side, but also when someone wants to marry, they

want to have a loving relationship, the federal government should not be interfering with that right. >> should the federal government support the right to a same-sex marriage in the law? >> yes. >> okay. thank you very much. coming up bain bain. don't go away. three damaging stories this weekend about mitt romney's years with bain capital show how much staying power this story has. and now romney's being linked to junk bond king. also, no health care decision today for the supreme court. but did you ever wonder why the law's so unpopular? wait until you hear what dirty angry money has gone into making it unpopular paid for you know who, the conservative groups out there. and become being barack obama. david maraniss comes on the show today. finally let me finish with the supreme court. you think it would have

desegregated our schools? this court? think about who's on it. this is "hardball" the place for politics. ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ male announcer ] now you'll know when to stop. [ honk! ] the all-new nissan altima with easy fill tire alert. [ honk! ] it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

both mitt romney and president obama spent part of last week in florida trying to win over a large chunk of the hispanic vote. but a new policy suggesting romney is focusing on the wrong issues. according to a gallup poll, health care, unemployment, and immigration policies topped the list of concerns for hispanic voters. basing most of his run for the white house on is a major concern for only 17% of hispanic registered voters. wow. he's off base on that one. we'll be right back. stay in the moment sanya

focus lolo, focus let's do this i am from baltimore south carolina... bloomington, california... austin, texas... we are all here to represent the country we love this is for everyone back home it's go time. across america, we're all committed to team usa.

point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed for lack of a better word is good. >> welcome back to "hardball." the line by gordon gek koe

epitomizing the 1980s success and the star who flamed out was michael milken. "boston globe" report links romney to a business deal with milken. here's the sequence if you will. first, "the washington post" dug deep into bain's business uncovering they were investing in companies that moved jobs overseas. can't do worse than that in this environment. president obama couldn't resist bringing this up. in a tampa campaign rally this friday. >> today, it was reported in the "washington post" that the companies his firm owned were pioneers in the outsourcing of american jobs to places like china and india. we do not need an outsourcing pioneer in the oval office. we need a president who will fight for american jobs. >> we do not need an outsourcing pioneer in the oval office. that's getting personal. next, "the new york times" with a report that bain basically

rigged its deals so that even when companies went broke, bain profited and today, mitt's hometown paper, "the boston globe," dug into mitt's business deal with 1980's junk bond king. michael milken. to remind you of how notorious milken was, here's part of a nightly newscast before he went to prison. >> one of the richest men in the world michael milken pleaded guilty today to six criminal charges and agreed to pay the largest fine ever assessed against an individual. it marked the end of one of the wildest financial eras in american history. >> howard fineman, beth heely, a financial reporter for the "boston globe" and cowrote today's piece on romney and milken. thanks for joining us. sometimes, these stories become too numerical, but when something ties somebody to an

iconic figure like milken who has cleaned up his act. i think they all know that. howard's looking at me. we don't know the whole story on anybody. but a guy on his road to prison and who was at i risk to his reputation. why would mitt romney get into bed businesswise with milken if he ever wanted to be president? >> this was going to be bain's biggest deal yet. this stage stores retailer down in houston and bain was able to put down $10 million and put together financing $300 million they were able to get with drexel in order to get this big deal done. >> so they got $300 million leverage by a $10 million ante. wasn't there any time you're going to make money like that, isn't there a risk to your reputation that comes with it? that's why you get the payoff. you call it a junk bond. your thoughts? >> there is a risk to it. romney had been a cautious guy. that was really his role at bain

since he started in 1984 was to be very careful with the firm's money and investors' money. this was a big departure. this was really saying okay in venture capital, take a lot of risk with start-ups, you make a little bit of money. but with this type of deal, you could make a lot of money. >> let's get to why he would go for the big kill. here's how a former employee involved with the deal describes his rationale. i think spent his life balanced between fear and greed. he knew he had to make a lot of money to launch his political career. it's hard to make a lot of money without taking some kind of reputational risk along the way. it's just hard to do. it doesn't mean you have to do anything illegal or immoral, but you often have to take reputational risks to make money and "the boston globe" reports so it was that romney decided to rely on a man and a company in the thick of one of the most

intensive investigations ever undertaken by the s.e.c. that is one of the great bites i've come across. a guy who gives you just what you want to hear. why would you take a big risk? because he was going for the big kill. the american presidency. he said it before, my father taught me to make a lot of money before you run for office. >> having studied mitt romney's career, i think that's absolutely right. you can make some money by nurturing the young companies. make the big killing on pred predation which he was moving from. >> he's not interested in crumbs. >> no. he wanted the big scores and we wanted the money from drexel to help him do it. i think it's utterly consistent with that mitt romney's life long plan was and he wanted the big money. he wanted it for an ultimate reason. which is to do what his dad couldn't do, which is become president. >> beth, back to you again. in terms of bain, what makes this a story that keeps giving? it was your paper that broke

that story today. congratulations for the globe, of course. i mean that. "the times" is on this story. "the post," president paid a tribute to that on friday. why do you think bain has circled back in news inquiry? now if you're a couple of weeks of not doing it? >> because it seems like when you want to evaluate mitt romney and since he is presenting himself as the president who can fix the economy. this is the period of his life on which you can judge with what he brought to the table with business. and so there are about 100 deals, we evaluated them at length for the globe's book and this deal is important because it shows that he really did pivot to be willing to take on more risk in order to make a lot of money for investors. >> let's look at this. here's a priorities usa ad. this is a pro-obama super pac. out with this new ad hitting

romney for jobs lost in these bain deals. let's listen to new ad. >> out of the blue one day, we were told to build a 30 foot stage. gathered the guys and we built that 30 foot stage. not knowing what it was for. just days later, all three shifts were told to assemble in the warehouse, a group of people walked out on that stage and told us that the plant is now closed and all of you are fired. turns out, that when we built that stage, it was like building my own coffin. >> so let's talk about the kind of person who's going to decide this election. the non-college white guy, to be blunt about it. i hate talking about race, but that's the way it's going to be. the guy that works in a factory, used to work in a factory. i often talk about oshkosh. i'm told that the campaign, not

the journalists, but the campaign wants to focus on bain. because it won't work on the east coast where everybody's into the financial industry, they support it. ohio, iowa, wisconsin. those three states. >> and defending pennsylvania. where the obama campaign itself had that ad. >> why these issues of bain work outside the east coast? >> in the industrial heartland, they saw the consequences of both outsourcing and pumping and dumping to use a term used back in those days in relation to the stock manipulation. they've seen the consequences of it. they've got the american ethic there. that's why the president succeeded politically as well as economically with the auto bailout which helping him in that region. look at mitt romney. yeah, on paper, he knows how to deal with economies, but the united states of america is not a company that can be subject to a leverage buy out. if it goes bankrupt, it goes bankrupt. there's nobody you can sell it to. this is our company. you can't buy it, pump up the stock and sell america.

that's going to appeal to exactly the kind of people you're talking about as an attack on mitt romney. not necessarily as a compliment to barack obama. don't forget. >> i agree with that. a lot of those same people with suspicious of the government. >> and they know where the democrats get money. >> one thing, everybody in the heartland agrees on, democrat and republican is you don't want outsourcing of jobs. they don't mind it so much, perhaps, in new york or los angeles. but they don't like it in the heartland. >> i want to hear those conversations the next few months, working guys in the bars along the the route 40s in this country. silting there talking, what do you think of this guy romney? the other guy says i don't like how he killed companies. that kind of conversation killed history. thank you for joining the show tonight from "the boston globe." i love the place. i know how to say it. up next, seeing reds under the bed. another guy. this new senate candidate is doing his best imitation from

appleton, wisconsin. joseph r. mccarthy. they're back with the red scare. what a joke. there aren't any reds left, buddies. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ why not try someplace different every morning? get two times the points on dining in restaurants with chase sapphire preferred.

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like a chicken up in a campaign ad? it started when a senate debate between a republican and democrat got postponed. rayburg said he had to be somewhere else. but if you ask, there's another reason he was not at that debate. ♪ >> they say he was too chicken to face tester. i think in hollywood, they call that high concept. anyway, the obama campaign has been pushing their dinner

with barack. you get entered into a lottery and the winner gets a date night with the the president, but how do you know he makes a good dinner companion? ask the other person who will be at the dinner. >> it was a cool date, actually. we spent the whole day together and we went to the art institute. >> art -- art guys out there, it impresses people. >> he showed his cultural side and then we took a nice, long walk. on michigan avenue. our first meal was a lovely lunch. >> then we went to see "do the right thing." >> spike lee. had just come out. showed all the sides. he was hip, cutting edge, cultural, sensitive. >> take tips, gentlemen. >> we need more of her on television. got some good advice there on how to behave on the all important first date from the president. finally, move over alan

west. when the florida congressman did his best imtax, saying there were 71 to 88 members that were members of the communist party, he's got company. here's what eric huff said about tammy baldwin, the likely democratic nominee in that state. quote, i fundamentally disagree with tammy on almost anything, she has a more liberal voting regard than anyone in congress. her philosophy has its rooted in marxism, extreme liberalism. she called it progressivism versus mine which is rooted in ve market conserve timt. he should have his mouthwashed out with soap for calling any member of congress a communist. we don't have communists. up next, dirty angry money. conservative groups flooding the airwaves to make sure no one ever learns to love obama care. t to understand how math and science kind of makes the world work. in high school, i had a physics teacher by the name of mr. davies.

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i'm milissa rehberger. despite this conviction, a lawyer for jerry sandusky, the coach wabtss people to know he is not guilty. he's in jail awaiting a psychiatric evaluation. tropical storm debby continues to churn off the gulf coast and could dump more than two feet of rain on areas before it moves out. governor rick scott declared a state of emergency. and wildfires in krolss are threatening the tourism industry. now, back to "hardball." we're back. whether or not president obama's health care law is upheld in the supreme court this week, polls show long ago lost in the court of public opinion. and here's one big fat reason. a flood of largely unanswered

negative advertisement by the right. since the affordable care act was signed in 2010, negative advertising spending on television has outpaced positive advertising spending by more than 3 to 1 and it feels like more than that. but the u.s. chamber of commerce and karl rove's super pac leading the charge against the law. just a fraction of the positive ad spending. less than $1 million comes on the obama campaign. a study shows the two sides barely reached the same audience. opponents focused on swing state markets while supporters aired ads in national broadcast and cable networks in markets in california. center for american progress and on the president's health care team in the white house, you were on it, right? okay. and joe kline is a knowledgeable jurnism from "time" magazine. i want to get to you, joe. i know you've been out talking to people on this.

which i'd like to hear about. mira, look at these numbers. 235 million in negative ads. less than 1 million of the positive ads paid for by the white house. why did the president stick his chin out after passing health care, let them give it the name obama care and trash it? he once told a group of us that they would spend $200 million and he knew it. well, they still are and it is unpopular. why let it happen? >> i think the challenge is that democrats haven't had the resources. the fact is it's been unpopular because it's been outspent 3 to 1. in any of these given cycles in 2010, you had democrats defending themselves. >> who should be supporting it? who should be jumping with joy at the possibility of a health care bill being upheld this week? >> consumers. that's the real conundrum this week. on one side, you have folks who have a stake in the law.

health insurers have spent a ton of money going after this legislation, pushing their money through the chamber of commerce. on the other side, you have consumers. that's really been the problem. >> why do insurance companies hate this bill? i thought it guaranteed a lot more people buying insurance because they're required to. why don't they want that? >> that's been a mystery. what we found out recently is that they have spent close to a $100 million funneling money through the chamber of commerce. the reason i think is something that hasn't gotten a lot of attention in the law. something called medical loss ratio, a fancy way of saying there's a guarantee in the law that insurers have to pay back premiums. they have to give money back to people. the premiums. and up to $2 billion for consumers in the last several years. >> let's go to numbers that mean a lot more to our viewers. this is what grabs our viewers. >> premiums matter. >> joe, let's look at these numbers together. a new poll on this new york times cbs poll just a couple days ago.

41% say overturn the entire law. 41% say overturn the law. 27% say overturn the individual mandate only. and 24% say keep the entire law. so basically if you add it up 68% of people say get rid of the mandate. which could happen this thursday. that's not a good report card. for something the president stuck his heart on. >> the other statistic that isn't there at least according to what i've been seeing on the road over the last three weeks is that about 2% of the american public actually know what's in the law and i blame the president for that. there are two huge constituencies here he hasn't addressed. there are 30 million working poor people in this country who will be given health care for practically nothing and the president has never, ever really emphasized that fact. this is a huge moral issue. it's a great step forward in taking care of people who work hard. we haven't heard him say anything about it. the other group are small

business people, people who are individually employed who will be able to go to these health care superstores, the exchanges, and buy insurance policies with the same market cloud that a big company like time warner has. we haven't heard them talk about that either. we don't hear the president talk about things he actually gives people. now, my suspicion is that he's not doing that because there are a lot of middle class people who don't want the working poor to be getting something for nothing. >> also because the people who are insured because they have a good deal at work, they have a union that's fought for, they have a contract at work or whatever, a personal services contract or whatever that gets them health insurance, they don't really give a darn about these other people as much as they care about not messing with their own. they fear somehow this will hurt their situation. >> that's right. the real misinformation, the target of all that money has been to small business people who think they're going to be worse off if this passes. they're not going to be.

>> that's a good question. >> they're going to be better off. it's a republican plan to insert market principles into the health care market. >> the risks are great for democratic elected officials who support the health care plan. cross roads gps is hitting how they're going after senator mccaskill who's got a tough campaign. they're spending a half million dollars on this ad in missouri. look at this. >> obama care? more like obama claire. because claire mccaskill has voted with president obama 90% of the time. including obama care. cutting half a trillion in medicare spending. cuts that could slash benefits for some medicare enrolees. and a board of unelected brrts to restrict access to obama care. obama claire brought us obama care. and that's bad medicine for health care. >> back in '94, senator now secretary of state clinton and president clinton both fought for health care. one of the reasons he got in '94 was the vote against it. they didn't like the sound of

it. here we are again. why is health care such a hard sell? why is calling it obama care almost like a curse word? why? >> well, the president has endorsed obama care. he said it's fine to be called. he has actually talked about the benefits. but i think joe's experience on this issue is a good one. joe raised a lot of concerns about issues of people who are dying, essentially, and what their health care system needs. there was a small provision in the legislation around this that basically provide -- helped provide information to consumers about it. and that was turned into death panels. it was -- people lied about this issue and they made it into something it wasn't. and that's been the conundrum of the affordable health care act. which is you can demagogue the issue very easily. >> is that true, joe, this is just easier, the complexity of the bill works for the enemies. >> there's another problem here. democrats try to impose universal health care while 80% of the public say they're happy

with their health care. republicans try to destroy medicare when 80% of the country says they're happy with medicare as it stands. the reason why they do this is to appeal to their money bases on both sides. >> thank you, joe klein. always the pro. please come back. up next, you may have to come back after what happens thursday. up next, how barry obama, that was his nickname, became the man who would be president. that was his nickname. he went to barack, the more official name. the author has written a brilliant new book about the coming of age of this young man into the president of the united states. we're finally getting an honest look at his roots. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. if paula ebert had her way, she would help her child. go! goooo! [ male announcer ] with everything. but instead she gives him capri sun super-v. with one combined serving of fruits and vegetables. new capri sun super-v.

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then finish with something sweet. your complete four course seafood feast just $14.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. he's been a figure in washington for more than four decades. charles rangel faces a tough primary challenge, perhaps. while the democratic incumbent from new york aenz that's what he's been these decades has been plagued by ethical problems of recent. he was convicted of 2010 of all but one of 13 violations, including accepting a rent stabilized apartment in manhattan. but his lead challenger is espia who is pursuing the hispanic vote in harlem. we'll be right back. i'm betting on charlie.

the president from interview: i talk to folks on rope lines and in coffee shops. people who have been out of work. you can tell it wears on them. narrator: he's fought to pull us out of economic crisis for three years. and he still is. president obama's plan keeps taxes down for the middle class, invests in education and asks the wealthy to pay their fair share. mitt romney and his billionaire allies can spend milions to distort the president's words. but they're not interested in rebuilding the middle class. he is. i'm barack obama and i you're entered for a chance to win a trip to the olympic games for life. to cheer the summer athletes to new heights, starting in 2016... as you experience every moment, every emotion, every four years... for the rest of your life. visa. supporting athletes and the olympic games for 25 years.

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get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. i stand here today grateful for the diversity of my heritage, aware that my parents' dreams live on in my two precious daughters. i stand here knowing that my story is part of the larger american story, that i owe a debt to all of thoz who came before me and that in no other country on earth is my story even possible. >> welcome back to "hardball." by now, america knows barack obama was born to a white mother from kansas, a black father from kenya, but the improbable presidential background with a childhood in hawaii and indonesia is called "barack obama the story." they traveled to kansas, kenya, indonesia, and hawaii to delve into the history before his birth until he set off for

harvard law school. so much of this is wonderful. i mean, he wins the harvard law editorship in a blind thing. he wasn't bicked because he was black or anything. he clearly waw bo lly was born country. he had a black father and a white mother. how did that affect him, that he's from a mixed background? >> i think that explains everything about hirm, including his personality in the white house. that speech we showed maim hid famous, there was a letter he wrote when he was 21 years old in my book, talking about how all his friends were finding different niches, and the only one he could feel good about himself is if he embraced it all. that's what he tries to do naturally. >> is he like the kid who wants his parents to get together and his parents, white american, black american, he wants them to come together. i'm serious, is he emotionally

kitt connected to the cause of unity in. >> it's the cause that got him into politics in some sense and into the white house. he reached the white house because of that and had to deal with the transactional politics of today. it didn't necessarily serve him that well. >> his hopefulness of unity, has it been misplaced in this terrible time where mitch mcconnell said my number one goal is to destroy this guy's precedency. >> in some ways, it has been a price. and he's so deliberative and cautious that it feeds into that problem. >> predict history. you have a great book, i think everybody should read it. your book on bill clinton, first in his class, was the best written on bill clinton. between now and november, can you forecast how he's going to deal with what looks to be a very dangerous campaign for reelection, dangerous political politically? >> one thing i learned is he has enormous will power. it's under the surface, but it's

strong as clinton's and he actually learns from his mistakes. if you put those two together, i would suspect you'll see a much better campaign in the next three months. >> whiy does he hang in such a small circle of people. he doesn't want to see to enlarge his group. he is more of a soloist, it seems to me, than a maestro. >> compared to bill clinton, he's the ultimate soloist. clinton needed everybody. obama doesn't, and he tends to play it alone. it's not that he doesn't like people. as he once said of hillary, he's likable enough. he doesn't mind being around people, but he doesn't need them. >> he would just as soon a haha good book. >> often, politicians use their flaws as their biggest assets. they need people, clinton was almost neurotic about it. >> you said persistence.

will he develop new methods? if he sees himself losing on labor day, will he try something dramatic? >> thas his tendency, holding bark holding back, and then something happened. >> that's what he did with senator clinton. heback. maybe that's a precursor of what is going to happen. i know how much work you did. how many years? >> four years. >> how much travel? >> 50,000 miles. it's what i love to do. >> you get into the heart of people, their guts. donald trump is not right, you're right. >> about the birther issue, no doubt about that one. >> thank you very much. the book is called "barack obama the story." we'll be right back. when we return, let me finish with what the supreme court is up to. we're about to get the biggest decision in years handed down by the most conservative court in my memory. a long time ago, you're -- i think you have to go back to the early '30s to find this court.

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let me finish tonight with the supreme court. does anyone wonder like i do what this skourlt, the one personified by antonin scalia and clarence thomas would have done in the landmark decisions of the post world wear ii era.

i doubt this pack of conservatives that includes john robards, sam alito, and justice kennedy would have removed organized prayer from public schools in the 1960s. that decision that ignited the moral majority. i doubt this court would have recognized a woman's right to decide on an abortion in the 1970s. let me proffer a tougher judgment, would they have upheld the 1964 civil rights bill, the statute that called it illegal to ban someone because of race. would they have approved the decision or joined in the dissent. maybe kennedy would have. we have the most conservative court since the '30s. these justices believe in original intent. they want the judge