good evening i'm chris matthews in washington. the right. one leader compared it to 9/11. an attack out of the sky. one conservative in the media world branded the chief justice of the united states a trader. rush limbaugh called the supreme itself a death panel. if you ever wondered which side has gotten into a partisan crazy world, listen to the souls

screaming. the lunatic right feels burnt and they couldn't destroy the only health care plan. don't believe this soft line you hear about repeal and replace. this fury on the fight isn't looking for a better health care plan. it's looking to destroy the only one there's ever been. our guests are david corn and daryl jones. gentlemen, it's great to have you on. true believes and we need some true believers. this reaction from the screw ball right, is that a precursor to the fact romney will fight this thing through november?ç the health care bill? >> i think romney has a big decision to make here. if you look at the poll numbers, the country is kind of split on the decision of health care reform. >> let's go to the poll. the gallup just polled americans after the supreme court decision yesterday. they found the country as you say, couldn't say it better. evenly split. 46 agree, 46 agree. and among independents, which are going to decide the election, this is a three-point

split. this one favoring the president. >> basically a toss-up. and it doesn't give him an advantage start banging against this decision. i think a lot of voters, particularly end pen depth voters, are done and don't want to -- the other thing is the way to drive his base out. if he is still worried about his base, which he shouldn't be. the other thing, too, if he starts going into repeal, repeal, i've talked to the obama campaign people. they are ready to go toe to toe with him on all the wonderful provisions within the bill that get 60 to 80% approval ratings. they know obamacare is an abstract concept. it is split 50-50 in the public. but if you look at those provisions, they have a lot of ammo to go after romney if his position is get rid of it. >> what's your bet? he goes to fight this thing or he cools his jets? >> you have the guys in the house, don't forget they're going to have a repeal vote in the next week or two.

>> i think they have a different agenda. joe, thanks for joining us. let's ask this. we both, we watched that performance by the president and his opponent yesterday. the president was saying move ç on with other things to fight about. romney seemed to be coming out loaded on top of that building, some insurance building in washington. this guy sounds like he wants to fight this bill. do you think that's right or not, or with david and he has to decide? >> well, i think it's a tough choice for him because i think it's a trap. if he decides to continue on the discussion on this, here's the answer from the white house. the part that you were for in massachusetts that we took from you, the individual mandate, is the least popular part of this bill. what david was talking about is right. every other provision of the bill enjoys anywhere between 62 to 80%-plus support among voters, including republicans. so it's a bad discussion for him to get into. the more you talk about it, the more people are going to realize

what they like about the bill is what president obama did. then obama has to say this is how we pay for these benefits. there is no way to make this bill work without the individual mandate. he can be the stern sort of daddy who says in order to these benefits, this is how everybody kicks in. which is what romney said. >> can he fight romney on that? i was quoting roosevelt the other night saying when ever roosevelt had a fight, they always come along later and say we could have done it, too, and it wouldn't have cost anything. here's mike allen making a good play in the playbook, obama looks like a winner and you can't underestimate the impact that has on casual voters. the attack on obama that has ç tested best with focus groups in over his head is in tatters. this is backed up, the fact that

obama looks strong. a couple of days ago, health care was around 30. 28. the individual mandate. around 46 even now. he's already polled even. >> not only does he look like a winner, mitt romney runs the risk of looking like a right wing whiner. you know, fighting against something that a lot of people want to move on and having nothing to say about these key issues except platitudes. so winning, there's nothing better in politics than winning. people want their president to come across. >> anything better anywhere than winning? >> well, they want the president to come across as a strong leader u not to be pushed around by the opposition or by the supreme court. romney's out there pandering to the base. flip-flopping on the mandate. this is a very difficult case. >> i'm with you. i remember, i'm older than you guys. working for carter as a speech writer. i got to tell you, joe, when he lost that marathon race which he said he was going to win, they're looking for signs out there.

does he have strength or not? some is emblemattic and some of its human. this time, i think if he had lost this one, it would be much bigger than he wanted. that's right. a win is a win and the problem is the presidentç has won this. the congress, the republican congress want to still fight the last election. they won back big in 2010 and a lot of them still want to fight that fight. that's not good for their presidential nominee. >> here's romney out with a new web video in response to the decision yesterday. let's watch this one. >> in a few months, americans will cast their ballots and make a choice. do we continue stifling our economy with a growing government that discourages hiring or do we chart a new course and change it? the supreme court had made their decision, but the american people haven't.

>> and to make sure that the next president of the united states repeals obamacare and replaces obamacare. >> day one, job one, repeal obamacare. >> well, wait a minute. doesn't he have some other number ones? wasn't the keystone pipeline number one? how many things does he have in his barrel? >> the key thing to look for, you know this. it's easy to do a web ad. doesn't cost you anything. are they going to put money and put these ads in swing states, particularly we talked about the obama campaign. they have already -- targeted women, targeting hispanic voters, have used health care in a proactive way as a positive. so they think if you ask the hispanic voters, they put health care as number one in a lot of surveys. >> i think voters are very high in hope. >> is he going to putt this ad up in virginia, colorado, nevada, new jersey, arizona? i don't know if he's going to do that. >> let's talk about the targeting in this ad.ç you can see it is a here, joe.

a young guy, designer stub. in his 20s. i was trying to figure out. this guy's a little bit of a rebel. didn't shave today. is that the target? a young guy in, a male? what's that about? that guy may not even vote. just thinking. >> that guy might not even vote and the likelihood based on everything we know about young voters is that he's not going to vote for mitt romney. i think this is the same, this goes to the same issue. the the way the polls are now going after yesterday, we're going to see a shift in intensity on health care from the strong intensity opposed of the last election to a stronger intensity in favor in this election. >> how do you know? >> well, because what the polls show eveninging out in the gallup poll, which is not very favoring to democrats tradition traditionally, we had the same thing. coming up, the umpire streaks back. john roberts said he would be an

umpire in the court, not a partisan. now the right wing is calling them, here's a word that comes handy for him, trader! is it a tool to the right? it isn't anymore. and president obama inspected the wildfires in colorado today. how the president handles a disaster can make or break a presidency. just ask george w. bush about katrina. plus god and government. how the evangelicals and the tea party members got together. and here's how the "tonight show" handled yesterday's news. ♪ç >> i don't know how he does that, but it's great. let's play "hardball" with politics.

back to "hardball" and right wing anger machine has been focused for three and a half years on president obama. well, yesterday after the supreme court's decision to uphold the president's health care law, that anger found a new target. the chief justice, john roberts, who voted with the liberals on the court. glenn beck is selling t-shirts. look at that one with roberts' face above the word "coward." that's sophisticated. conservative activists say he will be seen as a traitor and jack kingston of georgia tweeted he doesn't feel like being roberts' friend anymore. kind of high school. we're going to look at some of the wildest reactions from the right and ron reagan is also an msnbc political analyst. here we are back basically in high school, guys, when somebody just won the student council election. and somebody else didn't. this is so, it goes from the ferocious to the childish.

sarah palin soon after the decision, quote, obama's -- obama lies, to freedom dies. that was last night on fox. she elaborated with some ominous warnings. let's watch. >> if obama is re-elected, well, &l no longer recognize the country that today, you truly love and can enjoy all of its freedom is obama is re-elected because this obamacare is a harbinger of things yet to come. >> she has that sort of sarcastic thing she puts into her voice. rush limbaugh was also a bit overdramatic. his radio show, let's listen to rush baugh. >> our freedom of choice just met its death panel. the supreme court of the united states. what has been upheld here is fraud. and the internal service has just become barack obama's domestic army.

>> was he wearing a prisoner's costume on purpose? did you see that? black and white stripes? i think he was trying to dramatize the new imprisonment of his health care. there he is, look at that? where do you get something like that from, anyway? all it needs is a number on it. joan wash, what do you think of rushbo, and palin, does she rehearse this stuff? i think they're angry. i think rushbo's an actor and a brilliant one, but palin has started screaming about this thing. she is really hurt she lost this one. >> well, obama lies and freedom dies. it's so over the top. both of them, it would be so funny, it would bely hards you if it wasn't a little bit scary. i think what we have here is an opportunity for the president to, he gets kind of a do-over. he gets to sell this plan again. >> yes. >> with the light of the supreme court behind him. and so, they tortured him with ç

death panels and all the other lies and pulling the plug on grandma, and now rush is calling the supreme court a death panel, that's lovely. and the president gets toot out with this great victory and tell the american people in a sober, proud way, what it does. you want, yes, there will be more of the same. there will be more of your children getting to stay on your plan until their 26 and they can find a good job. there will be more people getting coverage even though they have preexisting conditions in their past. there will be more good things. so that's a great opportunity. >> and you're right. people will begin to pay attention. ron, it was like one of those movie football games where the guy throws the incredible block. in this case, the guy you don't expect. john roberts blocks the defenders and all them and the scatback goes heading down the sidelines all the way to the end zone. >> or maybe it's one of those football games where somebody grabs the ball and runs in the opposite direction than you think he's going to run. into the opposite end zone.

>> wrong way roberts. >> good for them. >> we can't have this discussion without mentioning a central irony in a situation full of ironies here and that's the individual mandate to buy private insurance is a republican conservative idea. it came out of the heritage foundation in 1993 as an alternative to the democrats liberals universal single payer idea. so the question you have to ask romney and the republicans is if you want to cover everybody and make sure everybody has access to health care, how are you going to do it?ç without a mandate and universal single payer. can't be done. >> you think if the heritage foundation plan had come directly from the heritage fund except through the obama white house, you think the republicans would be saying it's unconstitutional? i don't think so. this is something i hate to do, but i am going to let us quote michael savidge. he is well named. he unloaded on john roberts yesterday in a rant. it was too crazy to rationalize, but let's listen to the worst.

>> it's well-known that roberts unfortunately for him has suffered from epileptic seizu s seizures. therefore, he has been on medication. therefore, neurologists will tell you medications used for seizure disorders can induce mental slowing and other problems. and if you look at roberts' writings, you can see the cognitive association in what he is saying. >> okay. for the record by the way, justice roberts has had some seizures. never said he's epileptic nor is he taking medication for it. congress jack casick of georgia tweeted today, with obamacare ruling, i feel like i just lost two great friends. america and justice roberts. ron, this is so over the top.

like so high school. i don't know how to explain it but it's sad. >> the republicans feel betrayed here. they thought they had the supreme court comfortably on their side by a 5-4 margin and ç there goes roberts in the other direction, so they're furious at him. but roberts i think with an eye on the credibility of the court realizing that a 5-4 decision overturning this law would have cut the slender thread by which the credibility of the court now hangs. and he just wanted to go there. >> let me ask you this, it seems to me, did you all watch jean schmidt from the midwest and her physical reaction to what she thought, she was listening to fox and got the story wrong, and she was so seized with, kind of a seizure of excitement with the bill declared unconstitutional. it was physical. these people's reaction, what do you make of it? is it that important of the president being destroyed? >> that's exactly what it is. it is that important to them and they have been saying this all along. it was going to be a waterloo.

remember jim de mint told us that and the idea that he was going to live to fight another battle, that he won this battle, chris, and it was john roberts that did it to them was too much to bear. but i don't know how you spike the football if you think, oh, yeah, now sick people are going to be thrown off insurance. yeah, go america! the only thing exciting is they were going to deal the president what they hoped would be a mortal blow. you guys, joe and david covered it well, this is a huge victory for the president. it would have been a disaster to have it overturned. he goes out competent with kind of an amazing record now when you think about it of achievement in the first term. >> because before you tell us what we are going to do, somebody once said, before you tell me what you're going to do, tell me what you have done. just for the fun of it, let's

watch jean schmidt, this is what it would have looked like for days and months had the bill gone down before the supreme court. here's congressman jean schmidt thinking it was struck down before the court. here it is. >> speak! >> they struck down the mandate! >> have a nice weekend. you have something to celebrate. both you, ron, joan walsh, great to have you on the show. up next, this is kind of a hoot. and it's coming up here on "bardball," the place for politics.

back to "hardball" and the sideshow. really it was a historic moment yesterday when president obama made his address after finding out his health care bill had been upheld by the supreme court. some comics imagined if obama had really cut loose with his excitement. >> this is a big win for president obama. after the ruling, he addressed the nation from the east room of the white house where he explained this was a victory not for him, but for all of us. >> i know there will be a lot of discussion today about the politics of all this, about@m!= won and who lost. that's how these things tend to be here in washington. but that discussion completely misses the point. >> he didn't want to gloat, but if you watch his body language closely, you can see he was feeling pretty good. here he is today. ♪

>> that is so well done. while democrats are sobering that victory, the gop continues to blast the law and the ruling that upheld it. but take a listen to louisiana governor bobby jindal on an rnc conference call this morning. he may have ruffled some feathers over at team romney. >> there's only one candidate, governor romney. he was committed that he would repeal the obamacare tax increase and he will repeal obamacare as soon as he's elected. >> did you catch that? obamaney. that's what tim pawlenty called the health care law. obamaney care. that's not all. jindal has had to say on the ruling. here's how he plans to implementing the provisions in his own state. >> not looking forward to the exchanges. instead, we're going to do everything we can to defeat president obama. get rid of obamacare. tenth amendment to the constitution has got to mean something. absolutely, we're not implementing the exchanges,

we are not implementing obamacare. >> just say no.ç that puts him in the ranks with rand paul who said yesterday that the supreme court's decision doesn't change the facts that the law is unconstitutional according to him. that's "hardball" for now. coming up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg.