president. even if it means ignoring the needs of 30 million americans. compassionless conservative delivered by one mitch mcconnell. thanks so much for watching. "hardball" picks things up right now. when is a tax not a tax? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm michael smerconish. what we have here is a failure to communicate. from the moment the supreme court upheld the individual mandate kauing it a tax, republicans saying aha, see, president obama raised taxes. but today, r mitt romney's chief spokesman told chuck todd no the mandate is not a tax after all.

why would he say that? if it is, it means romney raised taxes with his plan in massachusetts. this is why santorum said romney would be the worst to carry the antireform message into the fall. also, we're hearing that chief justice roberts planned to strike down the mandate, but switched his vote. plus, count on seeing the obama campaign keep up their attacks on bain capital. both campaigns admitted the attacks on mitt romney's business experience, they're working and newly uncovered e-mails show that joe pe tern was more involved and finally, a reporter learns the hard way, don't mess with chris christie. we begin with the debate, mark halperin is msnbc's senior political analyst and "the

washington post's" chris cillizza is also an msnbc political analyst. the the supreme court gave republicans one major gift with their decision on thursday suggesting the mandate was a tax. there's only one problem. mitt romney isn't exactly well positioned to take advantage of that given his history in massachusetts. the problem was illustrated this morning when fernstrom went on msnbc and chuck todd asked if romney agreed that the mandate is a tax. >> the governor believes that what we put in place in massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the court's ruling that the mandate was a tax. but again, so he -- >> agrees with the president, but he agrees with the president that it is not and he believes that you shouldn't call the the man -- the the tax penalty a tax. you should call it a penalty or a fee or a fine? >> that's correct. but the president also needs to be held accountable for his hypocritical and contradictory

statements. >> on sunday, mitch mcconnell was asked about the box romney finds himself in. >> if the obama mandate is a tax on the middle class, isn't the romney mandate a tax on the middle class? >> well, i think governor romney will have to peek for himself about what was done in massachusetts. >> there's plenty of archival footage. on "meet the press" in 2006, mitt romney had trouble explaining why the fees he raised in massachusetts weren't taxes. >> a fee's not a tax. if you call a tax. it's reality. it's -- and i -- i am not trying to hide from the fact. we raise fees $240 million. >> does the gop need romney to play ball if they intend to sell this as a tax? >> i've been on this program one or two other times. i can't figure it out. clearly, you see an extreme

tension between everyone else in the republican party and their presidential nominee on a nonsignificant issue. the law itself is a point of tension between them. there's not be people in the republican party today who think the law mitt romney signed in massachusetts is a good law payo because the mandate. if you don't get health insurance, you have to pay a tax or fee. i think it's possible, possible that the party can finance this because they're unified on repealing obamacare, but today was an ugly day and they benefitted from the fact that congress isn't in session. you don't have the ping-pong, which i think they'll have to confront. >> chris, do they have a different route to go? maybe it's because of the archival footage. was there a different strategy they could have pursued? >> i don't think so because the biggest thing they worry about,

he's a flip-flopper, lacks a core. there's no way that you can -- i'm with mark on this. i don't see a way you can fin necessary calling it a fee or penalty in massachusetts and then moving to call it a tax. it's almost the exact same thing. i think if romney had his way, he wouldn't talk about health care at all. after eric was on with chuck, makes a gaffe. this is not a gaffe. at all. this is the reason that the establishment of the party, conservatives, too, but the establishment of the party were worried about the prospect of mitt romney as republican nominee. because they thought health care is something that revs up our base, something we can go after obama about. he spent two years, we can go him on this. it's very hard for him to do because mitt romney doesn't want to relitigate massachusetts in any way, shape or form.

>> he makes rick santorum look like a soothe sayer. it's co >> why would we put someone up who is uniquely, pick any other republican in the country. he is the worst republican in the country. to put up against barack obama. why would wisconsin want to vote for someone like that? >> mark halperin, did he have it right? >> as chris just said, there's still a problem here and i don't think it's played out. but republicans are united more than they're divided on obamacare. this is a point of tension. they want to all repeal it, including mitt romney. they all point to the tax increases in obamacare they say are bad. they think it's bad to have a federal takeover of health care and they think you can talk about obamacare as something hurting the economy. this though is what rick

santorum was talking about. as i said, romney is lucky it's breaking now, where it's not white hot. congress isn't in session. you can imagine if congress were in session, you'd have quotes and quotes from republican members of congress saying this is a disaster, a problem. it's possible because there's so much that units them on health care that this will tamp down and although the obama people will try to stoke it, they may be able to get by. there's no way the to get by this one point except rally arndt the things that unit they will. >> when they throw chief justice roberts under the bus, how does that cut politically? what's the message independents might take home from that? >> they don't think you should do obamacare without reforming medicare and medicaid. i think the party is still trying to figure out what to say about john roberts. i think it takes the supreme

court issue away from mitt romney, very hard for him to talk about the kind of justy he'd appoint. also takes it somewhat away from the president. even though the supreme court and ability to nominate justices should be a huge issue in the campaign, i don't think based on what roberts did had the right confusion on what to say about him. >> and chris, this distinguishing between tax and penalty is different on both sides. on "meet the press" on sunday, nancy pelosi was challenged on the democratic position than the mandate constitutes a penalty and not a tax. >> no, it's a penalty. it's a penalty. that comes under the tax code for the 1% perhaps of the population who may decide their going to be free riders. but most people are not affected. no, no. the tax is a penalty for free riders. >> and exactly, how many people will be affect ed by the mandat and forced to pay a penalty? not as many as you might think.

about 21 million nonelderly residents will be uninsured in 2016, but the majority will not be subject to the penalty. in total, about 4 million people are projected to pay a penalty. chris, i can tell you there's a lot of confusion out there. i have heard from any number of people on the radio who say i'm being taxed to pay for obamacare. do you have insurance. yeah. well you're not being affected. they think they are. >> one, yes, there's a lot of misinformation. two, that pelosi interview shows you why this issue could cut in her democrats and hurt barack obama if mitt romney wasn't the nominee. you can see nancy pelosi does not want to say the word tax in relation to this. she does not. now, if you had, i hate to echo rick santorum's line, remember how much controversy that line drew. rick santorum got all kind of bad press for that, but let's

say you had anybody but mitt romney, someone who had passed a health care law that had that penalty. you can bet republicans would be much more united on that front. you'd have them all bashing that idea. barack obama wants to grow government, raise your tacks and to pay for a health care bill you doint even want. i agree with mark they're more united only health care than divided. but imagine a scenario in which mitt romney was not the nominee. you would have a more unified nominee. >> i have to say, this should be a 100% winner for republicans anytime they talk about taxes. >> i think the the obama administration has dope a terrible job in selling the key aspects of it if americans are walking around thinking they're about to be assessed a tax.

>> if you go back an look at this, if you ask people do you support the affordable care act, you'll get in the low 40s. if you ask some of the specific provisions on it, wildly more popular. the bill itself is just not popular and i just don't see that changing because people have -- they think they know things they don't know. >> let me focus on mitch mcconnell for a moment. what's the republican proposal to help the 30 million plus americans without health insurance? watch his response cht. >> what's specific thing are you going to do to provide universal coverage to the 30 million people who are uninsured? >> that is not the issue. the question is how can you go step by step to improve the american health care system? it is already the finest health care system in the world. >> but you don't think the 30 million -- is an issue? >> let me tell you what we're not going to do.

we're not going to turn the american health care system into a western european system. >> mark, quick game change kind of a question. does the gop need to do more than that? is articulating opposition enough? >> well, look, unfortunately, because i think we shouldn't be the only industrialized democracy that doesn't have health care, it is not a politically dangerous place to be. we should make access easier, but not guaranteed. that's the position the republican party has pretty much had throughout its history and they don't seem to pay much of a price for it. i'm not sure given the current law's unpopular, this is the election where they'll feel on the offensive to take that position. they have some policies that mitt romney supports that are some of which are in paul ryan's budget that would extend health care in thoorry to more people. >> but nothing comprehensive. >> and not very easy to explain.

>> understood. thank you so much. come up, you can bet the obama campaign will keep up their attacks on mitt romney's record at bain capital because both side now admit they're working. this is "hardball," the place for politics. down here, folks measure commitment by what's getting done. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious.

last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. mitt romney is the least like presidential candidate at the point of the campaign since bill clinton 20 years ago that's according to polling by nbc news and "the wall street journal." romney is viewed positively by just 33% of americans. 39% view him negatively and that's about where bill clinton was in the summer of 1992. of course, clinton turned things around with a series of town halls and that famous appearance where he played sax on the asenio hall show, so who are the candidates with the highest favorablety rating at this point? become, 1996, george bush and

barack obama, 2008. we'll be right back. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about market volatility. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 in times like these, it can be tough to know which ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 way the wind is blowing. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we're ready with objective insights about ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 the present market and economic conditions. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and can help turn those insights into ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a plan of action that's right for you. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 so don't let the current situation take you off course. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550

the obama campaign's bain strategy criticizing mitt romney is paying dividends. new data shows that from early april through late june. 100% of the ads sponsored by priorities u.s.a. mentioned bain capital by name. they showered the swing state with multi-million dollar ad buys aiming to chip away at romney's business -- and both campaigns agreed the ads with working. eugene robinson, mother jones magazine's david corn is also an msnbc political analyst and a author. it tells me it's not an ad that requires the president at the end saying i'm barack obama and i approve this message.

very, very successful and yet the president maintains some distance from it. >> right. the president gets to have clean hands in this while allies go after mitt romney on what he portrays as his strength. his record in business, in success. he says that qualifies me to be president an the president's side is arguing, wait a minute. let's look at what he did in business and see if this is the kind of experience we want in the president of the united states. >> it reminds me of his handling of his religion. he'll talk about his record at creating jobs, maybe a reference to staples or some other business, but you just don't hear him address the nitty-gritty of bain. what's holding him back? >> i think because the

nitty-gritty is kind of dirty. i mean, their point was and the president made this point himself. not an ad, but in remarks, that bain's existence was to create profits. not jobs for the investors and sometim sometimes, that led to good results in the firms they bought. other times, it led to dras yous results for the workers. it's not necessarily a template that you want to bring to the white house. so if you couldn't, could mitt romney come on this show as if he would ever, an talk for 10, 15, 20 minutes about the details of the deals he did or where his initial investment money came from. there's a lot bain that just wouldn't sit right with middle class americans. >> unlg, do you buy into that? i love staples. i'm a stationery kind of guy.

>> you know, i don't know if he would sustain that for a whole 60 seconds. 15 second, 30 second spot, we helped staples get started and it's, you have one around the c corner and it's a great thing you like to go there. >> here's a pro obama super pac priorities u.s.a. ad attacking his tenure. >> romney bought companies, drown them this debt. thousands of workers lost jobs, benefits and pensions. for every company he drove into the ground, romney averaged a $92 million profit. now, he says his business experience would make him a good president? >> hey david, the cory bookers

of the world know, those who said hey, not all things about bain are bad. did they not see this coming? seems like outside the beltway, it played well. >> four years ago, we had a crash, wall street crashed and really main street paid the price with 14 million lost jobs. i think that the bain attack, criticism, has to be affected. i don't think americans like the idea of people like mitt romney, golden elevators, he had no risk when he took the bain capital job and when companies lost money, he still made money. it's this free enterprise that can't that free. i never understand understood

mayor booker's arguments, i think this is a, this cut to the heart of mitt romney's values. >> when i say he's been affected, let me back that up. the latest poll shows evidence of how effective the obama campaign's bain strategy may be. people in the dozen swing states polled, just 18% said what they've heard about romney's business career gives us a more favorable opinion. a third of the group said they've formed a more negative opinion. the swing state polls is worse for romney than the nshl numbers, which show a significantly closer split. >> well, i mean, first of all, i think they're targeting the right swing states from the obama campaign's point of view because as you said, the impacts seem to be greater there than nationally. i think the the interesting disconnect between kind of the new york washington line access which private equity fine and

why are the present people being so mean and the rest of the country, which really doesn't, which has a problem, i think. with this particular style or this slice of capitalism. >> i agree for what it's worth. i think because everybody in that quarter took money from someone who's in that. >> mitt romney's campaign is pushing a new line of attack that will aggressively portray obama as a craven political figure. revived this 4-year-old footage to make this debut ad. let's watch this. >> barack obama's attacks against mitt romney, they're just not true. the "the washington post" says on just about every level, this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue. but that's barack obama, he also attacked hillary clinton with vicious lies. >> he continues to spend

millions of dollars perpetuating falsehoods, so shame on you, barack obama. >> there's a lot more recent footage out there from the gop side where they're all sniping at one another. is that effective to dust off hillary from four years ago? >> you have newt gingrich calling mitt romney a liar just a couple of months ago. you could dust off miles of footage of john mccain saying similar things about romney from the 2008 campaign. this is one thing i don't understand about the romney strate strategy. barack obama, he's been president for three and a half years now. americans will and can judge him on what he's done as president. no one's going look at what he did or didn't do in 2008 and what was said or not said about him that far back. kind of idiotic. >> also a reflection of her strong numbers. up next, a reporter in new

jersey gets the chris christie treatment after asking the governor a question he didn't want to answer and follow me on twitter if you can spell smerconi smerconish. [ male announcer ] for making cupcakes and deposits at the same time. for paying your friend back for lunch...from your tablet. for 26 paydays triggered with a single tap. for checking your line, then checking your portfolio. for making atms and branches appear out of thin air.

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about how older people are becoming more and more antisocial, so i was really aggressive with my parents about joining facebook. my parents are up to 19 friends now? so sad. ♪ i have 687 friends. this is living.

what!? that is not a real puppy. that's too small to be a real puppy. [ male announcer ] venza. from toyota. now to the "sideshow." we've seen what happens when somebody breaks chris christie's ground rules. this week was no exception. he wanted to answer questions about a damaged water treatment plant in his state. here's what went down when a reporter tried to shift subjects. >> are you going to be addressing like -- >> did stay on topic? are you stupid? on topic. next question. good. thank you. thank you.

thank you all very much and sorry for the idiot over there. take care. >> didn't even get the full question out before being called stupid and and idiot. next, what does mardi gras have to do with health care? let's turn to bobby jindal. >> mitt romney's always been against the national mandate, against obamacare. always said he wanted to repeal it. states are different. i come from one of the most distinct states in the country. >> you're really comparing mardi gras to universal health insurance? >> what i'm saying is that every state is difference. >> i'm with david gregory on that one and chief jus kis john roberts has been getting a lot of attention. the the folks the folk at

business insider wanted to do something to highlight his surge in popularity. here's one. hey, girl, your beauty should be unconstitutional. or hey, girl, our love the for a lifetime as she gazes at scalia. a poll found that fewer than ten americans knew rober was chief justice. google reported that searches jumped over 25,000%. finally, team romney got advise from rupert murdoch this weekend. he said quote mitt romney last week, tough chicago pros will be hard to beat unless he drops old friends from team and hires some real pros. doubtful. i guess that didn't sit well because here's this morning's follow up. romney people upset me. save us from socialism, et

cetera, but should listen to good advice and get stuck in. whatever that means. that came after a tweet remi reminding us not to forget about the fourth of july. up next, joe paterno may have been more involved in protecting jerry sandusky than he admitted. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ha

the president frew: i talk to folks on rope lines and in coffee shops. people who have been out of work. you can tell it wears on them. narrator: he's fought to pull us out of economic crisis for three years. and he still is. president obama's plan keeps taxes down for the middle class, invests in education and asks the wealthy to pay their fair share. mitt romney and his billionaire allies can spend milions to distort the president's words. but they're not interested in rebuilding the middle class. he is. i'm barack obama and i

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barclays chairman resigned following a scandal. the company has been fined $453 million and bristol myers squibb is saving -- that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back. the late joe paterno may have played a much bigger role than he claimed in persuading penn state officials not to report sandusky to authorities. mike mcquery reported he saw sandusky sexual lly abuse a boyn showers. mike isakoff that in one e-mail, tim curly references a conversation he had with paterno. the the details are unknown, but

following that conversation, penn state officials changed their minds on how to proceed and they did not report the alleged abuse to authorities. jeremy roebuck has been covering the story. buzz bissinger is the author of "friday night lights" and "father's day." now, he's a regular talk show host in philadelphia as well as a sports columnist r for the daily beast. swrermy, let's walk through what we think we know. so, there were deliberations as to what they were going to do about two weeks after the mcquery incident and the plan they seem to have adopted was a three-part plan where they were going to as one prong contact the authorities. then something changed. what can you shed on that? >> well, some details that came to light over the weekend about these e-mails. we heard that athletic director

tim curly referenced this conversation with paterno and said after thinking about this, chatting it over with paterno, he came back and suggested to the others involved, maybe the best thing to do is talk it over with sandusky first. tell his charity, but hold off on notifying the authorities. >> an then they have a go around and actually use the word vulnerable. this may be the best course. they want to be humane. not necessarily to the victims, but to sandusky and they recognize they might be vulnerable if this is the the posture they adopt. >> graham spanier was the one to use that word. said it sounded like a decent plan and he suggested though he was a little concern about say sandusky didn't listen or they

couldn't get the response they desired. they might be vulnerable to some reprecussions down the road. >> and what he said when he was fired in part was that he had no knowledge of any of these sort of acts having taken place. true? >> absolutely cht although it is important to note it's a little unclear from what we've learned about these e-mails so far whether these gentlemen are talking about child rape or whether this is more along the lines of what they later told the grand jury, that they were thinking the whole incident was horseplay. >> yes, but there's also reference supposedly to the prior incident and buzz, that would mean the 1998 incident. what's the take away? >> that's as far as i'm

concerned, joe paterno has no legacy left. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that tim curly has a three pronged plan. one of which it's going to be reported to the department of welfare. he talks to paterno. all of a sudden, the key element of the plan has disappeared. and even paterno himself in his very brief and frankly odd grand jury testimony said he knows something of a sexual nature occurred. they know sandusky at the least was in the shower with a 10-year-old boy. they don't care about victim. it's about spin. about treating jerry humanely. and graham spanier was right. it gets out they were vulnerable and more than vulnerable. it just cements paterno has someone who was cowardly, but also a liar. >> buzz, you know that according

to testimony presented at the sandusky trial, within six months, one of these victims was assaulted by jerry sandusky and there were a lot of bad acts that took place in the days that followed. the real take away is that had these men acted, a decades worth of abuse may not have taken place. >> anyone who says joe paterno did not know about the 1998 incident is a fool. >> the family says joe is not an e-mail guy. don't jump to conclusions. i apologize, i cut you off. >> so he didn't use e-mail. he still had the ability to talk. he must have told curly something to get him to change his mind. i'm not convinced and just

connecting the cot dots and every dot has been connected. why does jerry sandusky then resign a year later and michael, you write a terrific column that got no play at all. why would mike mcquery made receiver's coach? he was a quarterback. had no experience. there was a guy named kenny jackson who had been the receivers coach, had played at penn state. had four times the experience and i now believe it was like hush money. >> jeremy, i thought it a bit odd the response from the curly lawyers after this report dominated this weekend. they seemed to wrap themselves in pennsylvania governor tom co

corbett. >> he had come under a little pressure in why did they take so long to arrest sandusky. they said all along, they had to build a case. when the information came out, we heard from curley's lawyer, our clients had to sit there and figure out the best way to handle this allegation. if they rushed and put that information in the hands of child welfare authorities and it turned out not to be true, it could blow up in their faces. now, whether that's an argument we can all get behind, that's the argument they're making now. >> thanks so much. it will be interesting to see whether the investigation gets into the matter of why this was an understaffed investigation for its first year. why did it take them so long to even figure out that sandusky

had written a book with the oddly named title? up next, did chief justice john roberts switch his vote to uphold the health care reform law? we're hearing he planned to strike down the mandate, but then flipped to the other side. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit,

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president obama's hopes especially in key swing states. but gallup polling shows more than half identified as independents. 52% call themselves democrats and just 11% who say they're republicans. when asked which way they lean, the the independents switch to 2-1. we'll be right back. the postal service is critical to our economy, delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears.

a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, it could save you thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request

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his vote late in the game. legal scholars say it reads more like a majority opinion that lost its fifth vote at the last minute. cbs is reporting justice roberts did indeed side with the other conservatives, but changed his vote. according to cbs, he then withstood a month long desperate campaign to bring him back to his original position. he is believed to be the justice most likely to defect led the effort to try to bring roberts back. he was lentless, one source said. very engaged in this. what should we make of it all? david is editor at large for "time" magazine. david, does it comport with your u reading of the tea leaves about the way in which justice roberts if you thinks and the

way in which court members treat one another? >> well, sure. this is not entirely surprising. this is -- this case is one of a kind. so to expect it to go typically and easily is probably a bit nieve. jan crawford, who reported that for cbs is a terrific reporter. the sources are excellent. i believe what she's reported there, my only question is whether he changed his vote or added to his vote. he did decide that the law was unconstitutional under the commerce clause and what he did was to uphold the law under a different congressional power, the power to tax and so it may not be so much that he changed his opinion as simply did something he announced he was going to do at the first conference. >> on the issue of how much pressure he may have faced, how

much was justice roberts influenced by outside pressure, cbs said this -- the external pressure began to grow. media coverage. as chief justice he's keenly aware of his leadership role on the court. and is sensitive to how the court is perceived by the public. did he perhaps take one for the team? you've got friedman on the right and crowdhammer on the right. suggesting this is why roberts took this path. >> it's plausible. i don't see this as some capitulation to pressure. you'll see that roberts accomplished many of the conservatives' movements of objectives. secondly getting a 7-2 holding that the medicaid expansion is

coercive. that's something conservatives can use a lot in the future. and there are two liberal justices on that 7-2 ruling. steven brian and elena kagan. they switched their votes. i'd like to hear more about that. at oral argument, both said there was nothing coercive of the medicaid expansion. then lo and behold they sign an opinion that says it's unconstitution unconstitutional unconstitutionally coercive. that means they got roberts to come over. that doesn't sound like somebody who's so freaked out by the negative press coverage that he just capitulated. >> since the decision, conservatives say they feel betrayed by roberts. i feel like i lost two great friends. america and justice roberts. and an editorial in "the wall street journal" said the

particular tragedy is all four justices would be turned over. only john roberts prevented it. a lot of consternation. are they not appreciating what charles just said? that perhaps roberts is striking a compromise that preserves what con serveg tifrs were looking for. >> sure. but on the right tre a lot of conservatives who didn't want a compromise here. they wanted a clear cut, hands down, hundred percent victory. and they did not get that. the law is still on the books. what chief justice roberts has to pay attention to is the fact that the supreme court is not a seminar at a law school. it is a branch of the united states government. and so politics does come into play there. and this was an incredibly politically charged situation in which you had four justices on the right, all of them appointed by republicans.

that's very unusual. four on the left. all appointed by democrats. again, to have this ideological split. in the middle of an election campaign. we're talking about a huge piece of legislation passed by the congress, signed by the president. and to walk into that and say i'm going to decide this case exactly the way i want to because i'm on the court and let the consequences fall as they may, it is not necessarily what the chief justice's job is to do. >> charles, i have just 30 seconds left. if you could answer this quickly i'd appreciate it. is it possible to an extent there was a late switch by the chief justice, those who were disappointed with him deliberately left words intact so tea leaves could be read. >> it is possible and i'd like

to know who these people leaking are. these people trying to spin the story purporting to have inside knowledge of the supreme court trying to make the chief justice look bad. that is a pretty interesting phenomen phenomenon. >> it made me think -- i guess the book was the brethren. we haven't had such an insight into the court since that book came out. in any event, thank you david and charles. when we return, allow me to finish with the latest news in the sandusky case and what it might reveal about joe paterno. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. have been out of work. you can tell it wears on them. narrator: he's fought to pull us out of economic crisis for three years. and he still is. president obama's plan keeps taxes down for the middle class, invests in education and asks the wealthy to pay their fair share. mitt romney and his billionaire allies can spend milions to distort the president's words. but they're not interested in

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let me finish tonight with this. penn state and jerry sandusky were back in the news this weekend amid reports that e-mails show that top penn state administrators included president graham spanier weighed whether to report sandusky back to authorities in 2001 after mcqueary's report of a shower incident. then after one of them spoke to joe paterno, they changed course, decided not to make the report while worrying their plan could leave the vulnerable. she said that lewis free as part of his investigation is exploring the circumstances the surrounding paterno's hiring of

mike mcqueary. i know why that might be of interest. i find it curious he was hired as the receiver coach four years after he reported the sandusky episode. he played quarterback for penn state. then after an unsuccessful attempt to pro ball, he returned in 2000 to pursue a career in coaching. at the time of the shower incident, he was a graduate assistant. then he was hired to coach the wide receivers. but in 2005 paterno could have invited someone else to return to the coaching position. kenny jackson. jackson was the school's first all american receiver, an important part of a national championship team. he played pro ball as a wide receiver. then the coached for the pittsburgh steelers. he was available at the time mcqueary was hired. so why in 2005 didn't paterno ask the 42-year-old former all-american receiver to return to penn state