or other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes. libyans are voting for their first free election since the falling of moammar gadhafi.

they'll form a two-tier legislature cl will replace the military commanders in lick ya. and record heat is expected again today across central and much of the eastern u.s. we'll have details about the new records and what they mean for the politics of global warming on tomorrow's program. right now i'm joined by jared bernstein. former economic policy adviser to vice president biden. joseph sanglatando, former employment counselor who's now been out of work himself for 18 months. and john phillis, own ore of a small business, a diner here in new york called the lexington candy shop, great place. president obama and mitt romney continued their sparg over the last jobs numbers. private sector added 84,000 jobs in jeune while the public sector lost jobs.

slightly lower than expectations. the unemployment rate remains unchanged at 8.2% and the num r numbers are familiar and frustrated. in ohio yesterday president obama looked at the numbers and the context in the last two years. >> we looked at the numbers and the businesses have created 84,000 jobs in the last month they've created 4.4 million jobs in the last 28 months include 5g 00,000 new manufacturing jobs. that's a step in the right direction. that's a step in the right direction b [ applause ] >> but we can't be satisfied because our goal was never to just keep on working to get back to where we were back in 2007. >> to put last month's 80,000 jobs in context under the george w. bush prez den circumstance not even counting the 2007 financial meltdown, the economy added on average 65,000 jobs

each month. bad news on the economy is good for mitt romney. he blamed it on a failed obama presidency. >> we've looked at now over f r fouree years. we've seen that obama care has made it less likely for small businesses to hire. we've seen his financial regulatory burden make it less likely for small banks to make loans to businesses to get start and to grow. his policies have not worked. >> so i tlink's a general consensus, and it's correct that the economy's a driving issue to the campaign, but when we talk about the economy, the economy is a big, big, big thing and it has so many different facets to it. so, joe, part of the reason i wanted you here and john and major rah is that, you know, when we talk about the economy, what do we mean? everybody has different

experiences to the economy. there are parts that are doing very well, there are parts of the economy that are doing terribly, and there are parts of the economy that are doing terribly and were doing terribly 20 years ago 30rks years ago. i was driving through gary, indiana, and things were bad ten years ago, 20 years ago. joe, tell us where you think we are. >> i don't think we should sacrifice the american worker. there are a number of ways to job train and escort people into work that we're just not doing. what happens a lot is you hear jobs, jobs, jobs, and you don't see anything happen. i don't see any job programs. do you? >> oh, job training programs. that's about it. >> do you? >> that's been the problem. there's been this job training consensus. there was job training money under clinton and the recovery act, but if you train people to have jobs and there are no jobs -- >> there's an "all dressed up and nowhere to go" potential.

you train people for jobs and there's nowhere to go. >> i was doing this for 20 years. >> basically what? >> the job sector, working with disabled people, homeless gentlemen, homeless adults, disabled, as i say, and i've never seen a lack of commitment to the work force like i do now. >> by who? >> by the government, by officials. just turning on public employees for example. >> and you were a public employee before you were laid off. >> right. >> the irony, they cut the program that was doing job training. >> yes. there was not enough to sustain the regular work force and had to get rid of some of the public employees with union benefits and that sort of thing. i didn't see the shortfall and funding that was supposed to be there and i looked very hard. so i think what we're having is an attack on policemen, firemen, welfare workers, and villainizing all of those and

also attacking all the employees, making them take drug tests and going through all of the tests. >> respond to that. john, i want to bring you into this. where the blame lies. and there's been this kind of interesting debate about when we look at the high jobless rate, right? there's two kinds of ways of talking about it. we had a terrible financial crisis, and that produced a lot of unemployment, or the american workers are not properly trained and there's this thing called structural unemployment which the sub text of that is it is your fault you're unemployed. >> if you had the skills, you'd have a job. >> and i wonder how you feel about that. >> i disagree completely. >> i have a bachelor's degree in human resources. i went back and got an associate's degree last month and i still can't find a job and i can't clean bathrooms. that's how bad it is right now. there's a real lack of work. but there's way to build their

skills, build their resumes and keep their spirits up. when i worked in the job center, didn't see one official come through in 18 months and say don't give up, keep trying. people hid from the unemployed. >> one problem, even at the small business level, even though it's referred to as a big industry problem is the lack of certainty coming from washington, whether it's the tax policies that are going to be going on for the next few years. dealing and talking with the customers that i have on the east side, nobody's looking to hire. everybody's become more efficient operating at this level. they're turning a higher profit. >> let me get into that for a second. i always thought the uncertainty thing sounded sort of fishy to me as an economist. if you're an employer, you're

not going to leave money on the table not hiring someone you need to achieve those profits because of page 799 of the affordable care that kicks in in 2014. so say a little bit more -- >> well, there is something to be said about that because evenmy accountant told me you wait till you see your taxes coming down the line in two, three, four years. but it's all part of the whole bigger picture because the uncertainty with the taxes and then throwing in what's going on with the local -- with the state and city, basically look at the small business person as an atm. and, you know, raise taxes here. i'm paying taxes that i don't know what they're if. i don't know what my mta tax goes to. >> presume bly the mta. >> for what purpose, i don't know. >> i'm with you. >> and that's the sort of, you know, problems we face. we'd like to expand our hours but it's an issue. >> and i'm also thinking are we really creating the proper environment, the proper climate?

i started one of the country's very green job training and placement systems. it wasn't about training people to do jobs that would exist in the future. it was looking at the trends and making sure we trained people to them. it was things around urban forestry and climate adaptation in particular and there were jobs in that. >> during what period of time? >> that was during the second part of the -- second half of the bush administration, during a time when people weren't thir thinking about it at all. i think what has happened with green jobs over the past few years is there was an enormous amount of money in the recovery act going into job training but no one was thinking about have we built up the proper environmental to get people employed. >> hired. >> in particular in the renewable energy industry. and guess what? nobody has bothered to do that work, as far as i can see. so when you're look tock keep it current, you know, you've got a whole bunch of things.

the southeast and central parts of america went through because of the heat wash and all sorts of awful things are going on. >> lot of work to be done. >> a lot of work to be done and a lot of people without power right now. if we had done the work of ad t adapadapt ing change in climate, dug down and buried utility lines, people would have been working. i don't care if it's god or man or whatever, but you're employing people. >> why don't we put our power lines underground. or even watching the -- i mean, again, this is not like a sophisticated economic argument. it's a common sense one, but i think it's economically right too. to watch the storm going through d.c., clearly work needs to be done if we don't have power for seven days. >> this is 2010. >> that's right. this is 2010. jobs ready to go. you have unemployed elect electricians, power workers. bury the wires. how are we going to get the

money? >> we've come up with a solution -- john, i want to hear what your customers look like and the customers in this job market right after we take a break. can be such a big thing in an old friend's life. purina one discovered that by blending enhanced botanical oils into our food, we can help brighten an old dog's mind so he's up to his old tricks. with this kind of thinking going into our food, imagine all the goodness that can come out of it. just one way we're making the world a better place... one pet at a time. vibrant maturity. from purina one smartblend. the global ready one ? yeah, but you won't need... ♪ hajimemashite. hajimemashite. hajimemashite. you guys like football ? thank you so much. i'm stoked. you stoked ? totally. ... and he says, "under the mattress." souse le matelas. ( laughter ) why's the new guy sending me emails from paris ? paris, france ? verizon's 4g lte devices are global-ready. plus, global data for just $25.

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our burying the power lines, so maybe we haven't solved the country's economic mess. it would be a huge mess. you have to dig up a lot of things. much more difficult than it first appears. we'll bracket that. it's brainstorming here. john, i want to ask you about demand. i mean there's an argument -- there's sort of two arguments i think we get in this economy about uncertainty on one hand, which is something you talked about before, and demand. business es don't have enough customers. what are you seeing? obviously i should stipulate. the upper east side of manhattan is a different environment than

youngstown, ohio or baltimore, maryland. this is not representative but i'm curious what you're saying. >> it is different. all in my case, people still have to eat. but we've seen a decline in demand so to speak. we've lost tourism. and this is a direct effect of the euro. you can easily see it we have less french, spanish, and italian tourists. this was a good chunk of our business. basically by the end of january we saw a big drop-off in tourists coming to new york. i've spoken with others. this is a big base we've lost and it's tough. >> it also points out something so interesting or important to keep in mind about the economy which is that, you know, no -- with the exception of high unemployment or, you know, massive drop-off in growth, different things have changed about the economy have helped different people or hurt

different people. so a weak euro rowe is bad for you because europeans don't come but good for someone trying to export products to say spain, right? >> right. >> so, you know, the problem is that all of the economic news cuts in different directions for different people. >> what i find interesting about john's story there is that, you know, i walk around thinking thatyeuro crisis is shaving half a point off our gdp growth, and that's it. and then to hear the granular story about how it's playing off the ground -- >> it's more than a point. i get that from you. >> could we talk thabout this? i want to talk about imt i want to get a little more concrete about what it means. you don't have to say, well, it's this, this, and this. it could be a feeling. one thing i can't get when talking about uncertainty, i feel uncertainty in a general sense. i don't trust that any of the world's economic machinery

actually works. you know, they're rigging rates in london and i don't trust wall street not to blow up tomorrow. you know, everything seems sort of like on quicksand, more or less. which of those two is it when you talk about uncertainty? >> i think it's more the -- what the government could do. i think that's the most uncertain thing. >> but that is -- federal government. we're talking about the federal government. in what ways is that playing a role in what decisions you're making the business? >> we sit down, form late the budget, foresee what we expect to do. you know, we pay a lot of taxes. >> right. >> there's an uncertainty. with business down and there's a lot of other -- it's not just uncertainty in that regard. we also have a problem with -- i know the economists all say there's no inflachlgs i can give you inflation, but everybody here, there's no inflation.

and it's another factor that's hurting our business. >> you know the one thing about that? the reason economists say that, they're talking about core inflation. it's pretty low. >> which includes food prices. >> right. >> which are extremely volatile. >> and he owns a dine sneer people say there's no inflation and you try to raise prices and try to list the rent, real estate taxes which are constantly going up, you know, all that stuff. >> you've been doing this for 32 years. >> correct. >> you've been through a lot of different recessions. >> right. >> how does this one look different? >> this one is tougher because it's got more factor. with the internet, it's a wonderful thing and everything, but it's also -- news is out there every second of the moment, and it affects you. you know, there's the credit card industry, which has grown enormously now. we are hit with a lot of fees. >> you pay them a lot. >> a lot of fees every month. and this is basically for the privilege of collecting money.

>> right. >> which i understand the way written credit works in the system and i use credit cards myself. but there's a lot of fees that never existed before. >> customers do not realize. >> customers do not realize. >> we went through a really bad recession around '92, and i worked through that with job programs and different profits and i saw us turn around a lot easier and faster than we are now. i don't see us taking the steps nation algly or locally the way we did in '92 frp i'm just really concerned that we've pretty much turned our backs this time, threw our hands in the air and said every man for himself. >> you work in the white house. resfonld that. i feel like the recovery act doesn't get nearly enough credit. my argument -- and what the hell do i know. >> you know a lot. >> no, i don't. the recovery act, you know, thing doesn't get enough credit for the attempt. and at a certain point the paralysis in washington,

particularly republican party and republican congress, they said, i don't want to do anything more. we have a story that we want to tell about that's grounded in this uncertainty thing. we're going to remove uncertainty as opposed to -- >> i thing thk that's exactly r. the recovery act worked quite well in terms of being implea millionaired when it worked fairly quickly of breaking the back and turning gdp losses into gains and pulling the job growth forward. the problem is it didn't last long enough. the difference between now and '91 and '92 and pretty much any earlier recession -- go back to the great depression -- the length and the depth. that calls for more counteractive kind of medicine to offset it and that's where we've fallen short. >> and majora. >> absolutely. i totally agree with that. one of the things we might consider doing that -- one of

the things i do have in common with the tea party is there's a bit there i think we can have to use a smaller government and that's where i agree with them. but i think we should do it by continuing things, the recovery act and thinking are there real jobs programs we can create. so i'm thinking about how do we support our america's most expensive citizens. they're the people who are generationally impoverished, people who are veterans coming back from our oil wars and coming in and out of the criminal justice system and how do we create jobs for those people. >> how do you do more and have a smaller government? >> oh, my gosh, because those people are already disproportionately using a bigger amount of social service dollars. >> get them back to work. >> get them back to work. and basically they don't get any better. so we're creating accessible jobs whether it's through climate adaptation jobs or making it so the southeast and southern states are actually doing better after like major

storms that are going on down there. whether it's through, you know, creating systems that actually naturally conserve energy. all of these things that we're talking about. then that is the kind of thing that supports our america's most expensive citizens and gives them dignity. >> i want to talk about dignity. i want to talk about mood, the mood of the country because that's -- in some ways that's what's going to define the election, the politics now, right after this break. why not make lunch more than just lunch? with two times the points on dining in restaurants, you may find yourself asking why not, a lot. chase sapphire preferred. there's more to enjoy.

joe, we're talking about the mood of the country. i want to turn a little bit to the politics of this ultimately because that is important. i think it's going to determine in some senses which of these stories we're telling you about the economy is the one that we use to guide policy, this uncertainty story, this lack of demand, need to hire people. talk a little bit, joe, about the emotional experience of

looking for work and not being able to find it. >> it's pretty scary. i've worked helping other people. i always sit in the chair and say i'm one paycheck away from unemployment to people i'm helping and i am. i'm looking for jobs in atlantic city along the boardwalk, anything i can take. my unemployment benefits were cut abruptly in the last extension. unemployment in new jersey is 9.2% right now. it went up. i got a call from governor christie. he's created more jobs than in the last seven years. i don't know who he's talking about. don't raise the millionaires' tax. that would probably help. it's like throwing the workers and trainers out the window. >> quick, quick policy point. it was february of this last year that the unemployment benefit program was actually

reduced in precisely the way you're saying it, yet the share of long-term unemployed -- >> we should say. who is pushing that? that's the republican congress that's been extremely hostile. >> if i was laid off today -- my first layoff was today shlg i only have six months. i have to have a job by the first of the year because there are no more long-term extensions. it's not easy. i've looked at the family dollar store, friendly restaurants and dollar stores. there's nobody hiring. >> i've received calls, are you hiring. this past month i was inundated with kids looking for summer jobs. i'd like to because the restaurant industry has provided the initial jobs for so many people. >> it was one of my first, serving animal fries at the

bronx zoo at age 14. >> making french fries at mcdonald's. it serves a big purpose. i can't help. >> there are no summer jobs. >> but the thing is we basically have to figure out ways to get money in the hands of the poor people. bottom rate, what's the unemployment rate in new york city right now? 9%. in poorer communities in new york city it's double, sometimes triple that. one thing we know about poor folks is unfortunately we don't save as much as anybody. you get money into the economy. but creating accessible jobs for folks in areas where we need to have it done, that's important. >> i'm curious. places like the south bronx, which is where you're from, where you're now and where you work, the question i asked john, does it look any difference? in communities that have a lots of unemployment, people being cycled through the criminal justice system, how different

does it look through the boom times? >> it's not just places like the bronx and poor working communities but white class all over the country as well. it doesn't feel different because we've been troubled for so long, but honestly since i know -- i know in for a fact because of what i went through creating job placement programs that literally turned people from tax burdens to taxpayers, that's where you see the community starting to change. they start to talk. that's where there's hope and possibility in twha they're dopg and it really does have a tendency to breed the kind of hopefulness that keeps us from thinking that all is lost. >> when i hear, majora, when i hear this kind of conversation, i just thing there's a ton of common sense that we should be doing. >> and it's not being applied. >> it's not being applied. >> explain that, yes. >> everything we're talk about actually costs some money. we talk about europe as going

austere. we've gone austere also, whether it's at the federal, especially at the state levels. all this budget cutting is antithetical to the kinds of things we're doing right now. they should be temporary until the economy is back on its feet. but we're going in the opposite direction. >> but the money that washington spent, did it go in the right direction to help? >> i think it did. think it did in the sense that the recovery act, for example -- let me say something quickly about the recovery act. the recovery act, $800 billion program created, saved as many as 3 million jobs, shaved a couple of jobs off the unemployment rate. at this point it has almost no impact on the budget deficit or growth of the debt because it got into the system and out of the system. it's those temporary spending measures that don't hurt you in the longer run. ite tess permanent tax cuts that

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a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. joining us at the table now is jamila bey, voice of "she the people," karl smith and annie lowrey, economic policy reporter at "the new york times" joining us for first time. it's a great pleasure to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to talk just about the politics of the jobs numbers and the conversation that we're having, and i think these -- you know, obviously this is a layup for mitt romney. jobs numbers come out, they're, you know, worse than expectations or they're not particularly wonderful in terms of getting to full employment. he, you know, gets in front of the microphone and blasts the

president. the president's story -- and, jared, you were there in the depths of the crisis is that, you know, things were going really badly, and then we've turned things around and they're not great now but we're headed in the right direction. there's this great piece of tape, american patch. we found it on mitt romney in 2006 when he talks about his jobs record. look at this. >> you're bright enough to talk about numbers. i came in and the jobs numbers fell off like a cliff. i came in and they kept falling for 11 months, and then we turned around and we're coming back. and that's progress. and if you're going to suggest to me that somehow the day i got elected somehow jobs would immediately turn around, that would be silly. it takes a while to get things turned around. we were in a recession, we were losing jobs, and we turned around. since we turned around, we've gotten 50,000 jobs. that's progress. >> that's mitt romney tracing a

line grafr of the trajectory. what does that look like if you match that up with the obama jobs record. this is mitt romney defending his jobs record in 2006, but we've owe laid the jobs record of barack obama, and you'll see how closely they align. >> you guys are bright enough to look at the numbers. i came in and the jobs had been falling just like off a cliff. came in and they kept falling for 1 months, and then we turned around and we're coming back. and that's progress. >> that is the argument right there in 2006. that is the argument of the presidency re-election in 2012, almost literally with the same angle of incidences on the jobs. >> i think it's an amazing argument, an amazing clip. i'd like to pat the back of the person who found that. boy uld say the bar charts and, you know, those kinds of backward-looking statistics and

kind of how they're feeling right now and the fact that the pace of job growth has clearly downshifted, if you compare, say, the 75,000 jobs per month in the second quarter to triple that, you know, about 225 in the first quarter of the year. there's been great slowing. >> please. >> do you think that people really care about what the statistics are at all? this is something i've wondered about. >> i don't think they care about the statistics, but they're emblematic of what's going on in their live sthoos they do care about the statistics, right? at least in term os the presidential race. there's a lot of evidence that people pay a lot of attention to the headlines. it's very determinative of how they vote. it's the things that get on the page of "the new york times" that they care about. just to mention a publication. they care about gas prices, unemployment. it is indicative of what people

are feeling. >> exactly. >> we don't know that that's indicative of how people are feeling. >> make that argument. >> we have two different sources of data -- >> they're not that far off. if you match them off, they're about exactly the same, but go ahead. >> so we measure jobs at least two ways, a bunch of ways but at least two was. one, we ask the businesses how many they're hiring. that's the jobs numbers or stats reports and the other thing is we ask how many people have a job. >> do you think the economy and the job market is doing better than these numbers or the general mood? >> so the household survey is soaring. it tanked in 2011 and now it's rising at one of the fastest rates. it's doing really, really well and there's reason to thing that the household survey is better at finding changing points. >> this is a fascinating idea,

just so people are clear on this. there's been some arguments about whether the statistics we're using, which has to do with seasonal adjustment which is a whole other thing we can get into. >> let's talk about that. >> coming up, an hour of seasonal adjustment. the whole point, there's a feeling of how much money do i have in my bank account, do i have a job, am i making my bills. then there's how do i feel aboutny job based on what's on the cover of "the new york times." and they get into the bloodstream of the body politic and get into the mood of the people. what they're saying which i think is a plausible and possible number is there's a dark mood from the headline numbers that may not match and that's creating political effects because people are affected. >> the other thing is if you take the better numbers, the numbers aren't that good. i mean they're not great one way or the other. >> they're not good.

and when you look what people are doing as far as going into retail establishments, you know, consumer confidence is not progressing at the level that anyone had hoped it would. retail stores are not making their projections. high retail stores are and very low end dollar store kinds of places are, but the middle of the road place where people come out and spend money, people are not spending as much. people are not driving as mel. people are not traveling as much. their behavior is matching this dark mood that they're feeling. >> it's not just a behavior. it's a broad range of economic indicators. >> i'm going to ask you to hold your thought. i like karl's statistics thesis right after this. with world champion grill master brett gallaway. he's serving his guests walmart choice premium steak. but they don't know it yet. they will. it's a steakover! the steak is excellent. very tender... melts in your mouth... so delicious... tonight you're eating walmart steak. what? it's good steak. two thumbs up. look, i ate all of mine.

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karl you're making argument that the economy is better than it might appear. i want to come back do you and let you make that a little more fully. >> yeah. there are a bunch of reasons but the biggest ones i'm talking about are the main jobs numbers we see on the front of the page has a lot of problems with it. it has seasonal problems. it's slow to find turning points. and there's a lot of other data i look at that says things may be accelerating fast. >> you guys had an incredibly nerdy back-and-forth. the survey of unemployment looks good. if we ask the companies questions like how many cars are you assembling, if we look at how many permits for new houses we're ordering, all those things we're accelerating. those things form a strong core of the economy. >> the only thing aisle say is the resolution of our little nerdy discussion we had during the break, karl is taking a 12-month average and when do you that, you miss the deceleration. i'm not saying he's wrong, but i think he's missing it.

>> yeah. if you're going to make a pessimistic case, there's other data that's gotten really bad. things driving the recovery, exports and manufacturing, those have gotten weaker. >> only exports. manufacturing has not -- >> this past week the number came in awful. >> that was mainly on -- >> can i make this point though? i just want to put in my own personal hobbyhorse just for a moment. >> climate challenge? >> no. i'll get to that tomorrow. that should be the planet's hobby horse. it will continue. >> regardless of the data. >> regardless of the data. >> it would add about 1 million to 2 million jobs, depends on the estimates. and the joe sanglatandos of the world could be working. those are real numbers, real human beings with a tremendous

amount of emotional distress, anxiety, people sitting on the sidelines. people that can work, not working, that's a waste, a huge waste. the only other person who can change this situation in the short term is ben bernanke. you and i, this is now arguable. we're now on our hobbyhorse. but when is ben bernanke going to get off the sidelines? there's a question of how effective he can be. but do you think we're going to see some action from him in the wake of this? >> probably a little bit more, but i don't think there's going to be any serious action on the part of the fed in terms of changing their perspective and making it a priority. over the past six months i think they've convinced us or me that putting america back on track and getting everything a job is not their goal. >> one thing ben bernanke has said a number of times, there's a need for more fiscal policy. he's come out and said, we can do more monetarily if we need

to, but, you know, we think that there is a need for more fiscal policy. >> what's so bizarre to me where we are in this, number one issue is jobs and it's just completely incapable of acting on the most -- >> half of the political system believes the number one job is getting rid of the president. >> that's right. >> they're targeting a different variable there. >> do you have any faith, jamila of break through? >> oh, absolutely not at all. not at all. every issue but jobs is on the table when you look at -- for example when we look at attorney general holder. when you go staid by state by state legislatures are doing. we earmark going to tell you what your doctor can do for you or not. from every level, from washington to the state houses in all of our states, nobody is doing anything -- very few are doing anything about our job and

i'm not confident it would be feasible for anyone to break ranks with their party. >> name the party, the republican party. and the big question is will they be held accountable? that's been my question. will the republicans be held account nbl the voting booth in november as they're hoping the president is. more and more are punishing the jobless and working par who can't pay fines. prison. that's right after this. heerios. oh you too! ooh, hey america's favorite cereal is... honey nut cheerios ok then off to iceland!

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paul kirkman, if you're watching, they're talking about where you feel about the policy. call. all right. there's a piece in "the new york times" this week that i think speaks directly to inee kwamt of accountability that we have in in america. reporter ethan bronner detailed the amount of poor people going to jail because they can't pay their debts. the problem is that cities strapped for your cash are seeking new revenues with

so-called user fees not just in the criminal justice system but traffic and license violations and people not paying child support. when they can't pay, he writes hills mcgee, with a monthly income of $243 in veterans benefits was charged with public drunkenness, assessed $270 by a court and put on probation through a private company. the company added a $15 enrollment fee and $39 in monthly fees. that put his total for a year above $700 which mr. mcgee, 53, struggled to meet before being jailed for failing to pay. cities are charging everything from probation supervision as well as others. it's to shore up budget gaps. when offenders can't pay these fees they get a knee it is to show up in court, if they don't show up, warrant goes out for their arrest. the supreme court ruled in 1983 it's understand constitutional to send people to jay because they can't pay their debts but

the cities are getting away with it because they're using contempt of court. it seems being poorer shapes the outcome here, not accountability. i think it's a great piece in your fine people. you have this confluence of events. we're just talking about joblessne joblessness. there are a lot of people out of a job who have no money. you have more people with fewer dollars and fewer resources. at the same time you have the austerity measure being pushed down on the governments who never want to pay taxes. increasingly -- i remember covering this chicago when i was a reporter there. all sorts of fees get added in. you can increase fees and run and say i didn't raise any taxes. meanwhile speeding tickets are now $900. there's a group that represents people that work in the courts. they say the courts are not a revenues source. they're not means of extracting revenue from people. the courts are a fundamental

part of our self-governance. and it's remarkable to see people doing prison time for not paying their debts. >> it's unbelievable. >> it's ken enseeian. >> it is. check this out. >> i think i expected to find him clapped in irons in some dreadful dungeon. the shabby jail was so much different yet no less tear snoobl let this miserable fate you see being b a warning. annual income, 20 pounds, annual expen differty, 1996 will result in happen inness. annual income, 20 pounds, annual expenditu

expenditure, 20 pounds and nothing in six. result, meeserly. >> they found it to be totally owedous, that this is the way you make people pay their debts and to have a situation in 2012 where you're extracting money from people who cannot pay and putting them in prison for it strikes me as just completely offensive and owedous to the core values. >> i totally agree with you but the key point is very strange things happen when you completely take tax revenue off the table. you've got to get it from somewhere and this is where the balloon gets pinched. >> and i think there's two points to be made about this. first is it's really expensive to be poor in some cases. this is really a great example of the more poorer you are, the more fees and it becomes this self-perpetuating things. the second thing is for states it ends up being expensive. to put people in jail, it's

expensive to keep them there. it doesn't make sense when you look at the entire ledger. there have been a lot of governors and local officials who say it's really expensive. it seems like this may be one of those cases where people start peeling the fees back. >> even more fun damonalist, it's morally criminal to do this. you can say this isn't practical in the long run. it just perpetuates this cycle. it's one of the horrors of the western world that we worked hard to eliminate. bringing it back, i don't know what the right words are. it's appalling. >> it is appalling but it's part of the general feel that there's this kind of sense when we have a discourse about people at the bottom of the social high arky. it's about punitive measures and making sure people aren't cheating on their welfare check

and getting drug tests. it's punitive, it's punitive, it's punitive. >> but when they get a bogus bill, this ain't my parking ticket and the fees accrue, there's nobody to fight for those people at the bottom and if they don't show up, they get put in jail. >> we've got an attorney general who's fighting back against prisons. right after this. ♪ one a day women's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. ♪ it has more of seven antioxidants to support cell health. that's one a day women's 50+ healthy advantage.

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ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you can't create a retirement plan based on ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a predetermined script. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we actually take the time to listen - ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 to understand you and your goals... ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...so together we can find real-life answers for your ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 real-life retirement. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and let's write a script based on your life story. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes here with jared bern stooechblt jamila bey from the voice of russian radio, karl smith and annie lowrey from "the new york times." we were discussing the phenom a phenomena. ethan bronner wrote a great piece this week about people getting sent to prison for failure to pay debts, and those debts in his article are specifically about the fees that

accrue when people are run through the court system, sometimes for criminal infractions but often misdemeanor infractions, drunken violations, traffic an license infractions. they can rack up debts and when they can't pay them, they can find themselves in prison. one of the aspects i wanted to touch on, the municipalities have outsourced this to private companies and this gets to me, like one of my big frustrations with the arguments of privatization. there's an argument that has to do with the fact that thinks that markets do better than governments. but one of the things they end up being is granting a monopoly license. >> it's just outsourcing. >> exactly. it's not like we're going to have different people competing to find the right market price for, you know, extracting fees. >> it makes it look like you

have fewer public employees as well. >> but it also means you're giving license to private entities to extract rent from people. you're giving license and incentive to take a government contract and then go out. -- when we talk about privatization, that's often what it looks like. it's not saying let's let the market figure out what the government is doing now. it's just saying let's hire a private company that doesn't have the public interest, has a profit motive to extract as much as possible to do the function that the government used to do. >> no. that's completely right. >> defend yourself. >> i don't support that. markets are great and i love markets. one of the fundamental reasons they were made public is there was a monopoly provider and they would extract rents. >> yeah. >> they knew that you had to pay whatever they asked because they are the police force. so we say, no, we're going to make that a public institution. >> and yet this -- this is part

of the austerity story, too, though. part of it is getting fees instead of taxes and then the other thing is outsourcing as a way of changing what the balance sheet looks like. >> what's amazing to me is there's a republican name that's been elevated over the last couple of years. the government doesn't create jobs. it's the private sector that creates jobs. then if you look at it. you're very quickly into the millions. so government does create jobs in the private sector, often inefficiently as both of you have stressed. >> there's another part of this story. people have accrued fees and debts going through the court system. at a certain point you get to an equal protection issue where it say ys you can't throw people i prison because they can't pay money. there are also private creditors

using the court system to land people in prison when they can't pay their debts. i want to bring in lisa matigan who passed the debtor's act of 2012. good morning. it's great to have you. >> good morning. nice to be with you all. >> can you tell me why -- where this came out from you that you made a push on this? clearly you're just -- you're pandering to the very powerful debtors consistency, so i wanted you to defend your integrity. >> i appreciate that opportunity. it's something that i think attorney generals should be doing. here's how it came to us. we're essentially started getting calls from legal services organizations so, the lawyers repgt low income, poor people, and we were hearing more and more stories over the last year of poor people of being tossed into jail, essentially what i looked at as debtor's prison because they were unable to pay. but when we really started delving into these stories we

saw two significant problems. number one, most of the time, the debtors didn't even know that a lawsuit had been filed or that they were to appear in court for a hearing or if they did show up and there was some sort of order entered for them to pay, they didn't have any money. i mean literally all of their income what they have is what is referred to as exempt income, benefits, social security, ira payments. >> you legally cannot use social security or ssi or disability or veterans bills to pay debts, right? >> people if they want to can do that but they're not under any legal obligation. those funds are expect. that's how it came to us. we did a survey across the state. we found at least a thirty of them in the state of illinois people were routinely ended up in these circumstances where essentially at the bottom of it

because they were pooring they were landing in prison or jail and we set about to remedy that by looking at the rules and procedures that tyke place in courts. we found that quite frankly there were some counties where it was completely different than other counties. again, a real problem. >> we have a question for you. >> who's making these charges? >> for years you've heard of this. we had a lot of hospitals. we contended with there in illinois in the last five or six years where we change add law where before a hospital can turn your bill over to a debt collector there's a process they have to go through. now it's not just the hospitals and medical bills, but we see it with consumer installment loans. there's a story about a woman who purchase add volume clean ended up in jail for a series of time because she didn't make the payment on the vacuum cleaner bill because she didn't have a job anymore.

we see circumstances with people owe back rent, credit card debt, payday loans. >> credit card debt. >> unsecured debt that people have that are landing them in prison. >> and the chain of events here goes that you owe money on unsecured debts, there's no home to foreclose on and it gets turned over too a collection agency and they begin to pursue that debt through the courts, right? that's how this plays out? >> right. actually let me walk you through it because it's interesting in some ways. you know, inish will i once the debt collector has this to collect, one of the things they can do if they decided there's nothing else that works they can file a lawsuit. a lawsuit gets filed. when the lawsuit gets filed, you're supposed to get personally served. you're supposed to sign that you receive add copy of it so you're on notice. reportedly we heard repeatedly that people claimed they got

pulled over, there's a warrant for their arrest. they end up in jail. they claim they never knew there was a lawsuit. i at first sate, how can that by. eventually it's what's referred to as sewer service. so the processor in stes of handing it to you, they say sewer service because they allegedly throw it in a sewer or garbage can or whatever and they forge on the affidavit that you actually received it. so in the first instance the person doesn't know there was a lawsuit. there's a default judgment against you in the amounts. they tend to be a couple of hundred to a couple thousand dollars. then there's a hearing that's supposed to be held, a discovery of assets. do you have money, how much money, let's put in place a payment plan. oftentimes those notices are sent via regular mail but they tend to quiet sent to addresses that are no longer valid.

it's no different than when the debt collector is trying to call you and they've got the wrong number. >> people are moving around a lot. >> right. particularly in they're poor. when you don't show up, it ams to an arrest warrant. the next thing, you're driving down the street, you tail light is broken, you run a stop sign, your muffler is too noisy, the police officer pulls over, looks you up, and you end up in jail. oftentimes, this is really awful, the exact amount of your bail is what you owe the creditor and that money just handed over. >> wow. attorney general madigan, we have more for you. can you stick around for one more block? >> sure. >> sounds cool. we'll be back in a s.e.c. for me, it's really about building this extraordinary community. american express is passionate about the same thing.

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we have illinois attorney general lisa madigan who has come up with legislation. it's ke necessaryian but it's happening in the united states of america. jamila bey has a question for you. >> thank you for being with us this morning. >> sure. >> i wonder if you're tracking in your state unfair debt practices against these agencies that are going after your -- you know, your constituents there. that's part one of the question. part two is can you look at any cases where family courts have had to be involved because perhaps a single parent has been arrested because of a debt? >> both great questions. the answer is yes. in fact, this isn't a surprise.

because of the collapse in the economy and the high unemployment rates, we've really seen an enormous explosion in what we refer to as debt-related consumer fraud complaints in the last four years. in fact, they're the number one category of consumer complaints we receive at this point. we're getting about 25,000 consumer fraud complaints a year. the actual number of complaints against debt collection agencies is right around 1,200 a year, and we have filed several lawsuits against very aggressive debt collectors that even are doing things that are illegal, that are short of what we've been talking about about folks landing in so-called debtor's prison. we've been doing a lot. we have a department of financial regulation that's been doepg a lot of work. yes, we're look into this. and as well we're starting to look into it because right around the times we started moving legislation, we got pushback of municipalities of

possibly changing the rules and making them, you know, stricter and also uniform across the state. so we're starting to also look into, you know, are we seeing the abuses you were talking about earlier where you've got the municipalities throwing people in jail because they're poor. on the second side of it, sure, the enormous expense this can be, you know, to government, which kind of makes it insane that you now have private companies that are using government, using law enforcement, using our courts, using, you know, the jail to extract money for the private company. and, so, sure, there's an enormous expense and yes. >> let me -- there was great report issued in 2010. the brennan center found one north carolina county's collection earths s agencies

arrested them. it was less than what they suspect on their incarceration. so it doesn't seem efficient. >> i was wondering what's the economic model here, locking up poor people to pay debts? >> attorney general, here's my question for you. you're a politician, statewide-elected, very popular in illinois, it seems like fees we're attacking to the criminal justice system, that part of that does come from this kind of tax -- inability for anyone to say the word taxes, to raise taxes of any kind, and so what you do get is this squeezing of the balloon. you've got to get revenue from somewhere so you end up with these things. is that what the politics are driving at? >> it wouldn't surprise me. when there are federal cuts, state cuts, you have municipalities, counties obviously looking for increased revenue. but what i will say is one of

the things we do out of the illinois attorney general's office, we also provide a lot of funding for crime victim services. crime victim services comes from the money that, you know, the defendants and it matly those who are convicted of crimes, they have to pay some certain fees, certain fines, and what i can tell you is over the past several years we have seen a significant, millions of dollar decrease in the amount of money being brought in. so what i can tell you at least in illinois on a statewide level, we're not brings in as much from victims -- or not from victims but for victims of crimes. so it's been more difficult as folks are unemployed and they don't have resources. we're not bringing in the kind of money we used to. >> lisa mad began, illinois attorney general. >> sorry, i -- >> i didn't mean to cut yuf. 's been a great plaerchlt go ahead. >> what i was going to say is obviously that's not the case around the rest of the country. certain areas are increasing their fees to really just

extract blood from a turnip. >> illinois attorney general lisa madigan. we'd love to have you back. if you're ever in new york city, we'd love to have you at this table. >> thank you. a big mitt romney fundraiser steps aside after his bank is caught for rigging credit cards and interest rates and more. that's up next. it's your teenager's first varsity game. it isn't just your annual exam. it's your daughter's wedding. did you know with your health insurance you may now have some preventive benefits with no co-pays or out-of-pocket costs? it isn't just your cholesterol screening. it's all the tomorrows you're looking forward to. learn more at healthcare.gov.

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romney's top funders dropped out after being caught up in a massive global banking scandal. on tuesday barclays ceo robert diamond pulled out of the romney fund-raiser after his bank was found to have -- worth of consumer loans across the word everything from mortgages to student loans to credit cards. on the zam he dropped oust the romney fundraiser he resigned as the chief executive of barclays after a massive public outcry over the rate rigging scandal in brittain. >> that behavior was reprehensib reprehensible, it's wrong. i'm sorry, i'm disappointed, and i'm also angry. >> according to regulators from 2005 to 2007 and during the 2008 financial crisis, barclays ka gained by fraudulently manipulated a key lending bank, known as libor.

its function is simple. it's the interest rate bangs charge to lend money to each other. it's also what the bangs use across to world to determine how much interest you should pay for credit cards and student loans. we're talking about massive loans that may have been affected by the rate rigging. in the state of ohio, as much as 60% of prime rate adjustable rate mortgages and others are tied to the rate. here's british prime minister david cameron talking about the scope of the scandal on wednesday sniet is outrageous frankly that homeowners may have paid higher mortgage rates and smaller businesses may have paid high interest rates because of spivy and probably illegal activity. >> this has been getting tremendous coverage in england. it's been getting tremendous coverage in the financial press and elite financial tress. i think the economists this week

has a bane stkster's coverage. i want to take a second to communicate to people. there's a dollar figure to what this may mean and people actually seeing it in their sub prime mortgages being higher or lower. there's even more basic issue here which is can't the foundation of a financial system, the foundation of a market economy, the foundation of capitalism is a basic level of trust? you have to trust the person on the other side. and we have this trust all the time. when you drive up to gas station anywhere in this country and you drive up and fill your tank. you trust that meter is not ripping you off. and this is like finding out some big company in e'er gas station across the country had systematically had been rigging it or let me try this. brain storming a few. it would be like if someone managed to collude to change what the actual measurements of a foot was to make it slice slightly smaller so that they

were actually selling more, right? it's like -- it's change iing a fundamental measurement of how we deal with the economy. >> look. there are deep incentives to game systems throughout the economy and one of the reasons why this libor scandal is so offensive and just, you know, incredibly -- makes me so angry is that this was something that regulators, which we have to have in a situation like this, you can't have this kind of system without having the oversight or we'll have precisely the types of problems you mentioned, not only sleeping at the sliwitch, but there was hint that there was co-lab rating. i don't know how many times we have to hear that. if you hear during the campaign, we don't need dodd/frank or financial oversight, this should remind us this is absolutely nuts. >> i think the perspective is nuts. you're saying the gas station was systematically cheating you.

that's not what really happened. it's like the meter wasn't working regularly. it was flipping up and down. >> do you genuinely believe that? do you genuinely believe that? a a >> are you saying it wasn't intentional? >> they don't care about the little person they put out of their home but they care about the profit that a-- >> you're saying that -- >> it did not make it any more likely for people on average to get put out of their homes. >> do you feel okay than. >> sometimes the libor was low. sometimes the libor was high. >> i want to be clear. they moved it in both directions. they moved it in both directions because there's two parts. to explain how this scandal works, okay, you're barclays. you've got this little office that every day submits this

piece of paper that's compile -- it's thomson reuters -- compi compiling it every day. we think we can borrow it at around 3%. you get a call from your trading desk that says, listen, dude, i made a debt that libor was going to go down, and it -- if it doesn't go dourngs i'm screwed. any chance you can shave it off here? these are actually e-mails. for you, anything. always happy to help. done for you, big boy. here's a uk report at another bank. this is someone at another bank asking the person at the libor bank to lower the rate. if it comes in unchanged, i'm a dead machblt meaning he made a rate. trader g responded he would, quote, have a chat. barclayses' submission on that day for three months u.s. dollar

libor was half a basis point lower -- that's a lot -- than the day before, rather than being unchanged. the external trader stated in an e-mail to trader g, dude, i owe you big time. come over one day after work and i'm opening a bottle of bollingir. >> i think the civil suits coming out of this is going to be very massic. and they're going to trade it to the day it was manipulated. at some point somebody's on the other side of that. >> that's kind of crazy because no one is going to be paying barclayses any money for the days that barclays made their mortgage cheaper or the days that they made more money on their cd because of what barclays did. everybody's going to be asking when they lost money but they did it in both directions, right? >> you're missing the point. you're missing the point. this is not about whether or not people made money some days, lot

money some days, that's the loss. >> i think jamilla is right oorpz. >> this is the system of the system is broken, dude, they're broken, dude, there's nobody to hold them accountable. there's nobody to punish them for the cones kwenss. >> karl, you don't think it was right for them to rig rates. even if they did it unsystematically. that's not okay, i hope. >> i am not in any way shocked that libor was shocked. >> i'm not asking if you were shocked. do you think this is emblematic of a system that's okay, functioning in a way that's commensurate with a good transparent economy? >> i don't think there's a major problem with it. >> whoa. >> that's strange. >> i don't have a problem with it. okay, so you ask them and they tell you. london broke down. they knew they were going to

behavior this way because they don't have the same trust level they used to vchlt and from the '90s everybody thought that things like this were happening, right? and libor became more, and more popular and more and more used because people thought, oh, well, what i really thought it was barclays was -- >> i think this asymmetry you're getting to is very, very interesting. ebb in the financial markets knew they were putting in the wrong libor rates, that they were somehow colluding to do this, but nobody on the street knew that, right? your average person doesn't know that, and so you're operating less information that people don't know. >> one point, one point. >> you're going to make your point. you're going to make your point. i'm so happy that you're defending barclays. this is hot talk. more after this. ♪ why not make lunch more than just lunch?

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we're in the midst of a discussion on the libor

rate-rigging scandal. >> it's not the point. i think even your point that they were sometimes rigging it up, rigging it down, who cares, i'm way against that based on transparent prices. but at a critical point when barclays and others wants to make them look healthier than they were, they raised it significantly down. this is at a time when the banks were holding a lot more toxic assets than they wanted to talk about. >> let me make this so people are clear. there's actually -- i should be feeling the love you do. barclays cooperated with the two-year investigation that happened both in the u.s. and england. in some sense they're saying, hey, look, we're getting our spot blown because we cooperated with you but there are other banks that were doing the same thing. ubs is one, deutsche bank is a libor as well. that's one thing to keep in mind here, that there's other shoes

to drop. and barclays actually says, we were only doing this because everyone else was and we didn't want to be left holding the bank since we're the one that's the biggest credit cririsk. they were to benefit these individual traders who made bets in either direction like the e-mails i just red. then there was in 2008 libor is the indicate ore f the general health of the banking sector, right? it's like a credit score for banks. they say you're risky, you're not risky. i remember when we were all watching libor day by day at that point. it was kind of like a thermometer on the feesh over the financial crisis. >> at the white house, i can tell you they were saying we shouldn't target the fed rate. we should credit the libor. that's an incredible thing to thing about. >> they were systematically submitting lower bids than the actual cost to borrow to make themselves look healthier than they should have been and an

allegation that was denied that this was being done with both the prompting or nudge nudge acquiescence of the regulator, ben bernanke. >> i think that's probably true. one, because of the nature of barclays and it's likely. and, two, because it's highly probable that the bank of e england dwould thawould do that. i would tell them to lie because if they do not do this -- >> if you get nominated to be a fed board governor, they're going to play this. >> in that middle of the crisis, we were worried about banks going under, millions losing their jobs. much worse, actually lives being destroyed, and to say we can't do that because one guy can't hand another guy a number that says point 2 lower, no, no. i mean if i had the power, i

would demand you do it. i would shoot you if you didn't do that. there are people's lives at this -- >> we're on television. you wouldn't shoot people that do that. >> i most certainly would. people get caught up. people actually -- lives were actually ruined in the financial crisis, people that nothing to do with this. >> i'm not sure what your point is. >> you're going to make it worse because of this? >> no, we're not going to make it worse. >> you're making the argument they did the right thing. >> they did tt right thing. >> you should kill people. i wouldn't encourage you do that. that's another discussion. annie lowrey. >> basically you're saying it was good for them to manipulate it to borrow at a certain price as opposed to changing conditions that would result in the libor being lower, which is what they were try dog to shore

up everything with the banking sector. it seems like you're missing an integral piece. >> you're the bank of england. there's no one you're going to appeal to. >> you don't need to. >> you call them and tell them. >> let me -- let me play mervyn king, who is the bank of england governor. >> who's been saying smart things about this. >> addressing this. >> that goes to both the question of culture in the banking industry and to the structure of the banking industry. from excessive levels of compensation to shoddy treatment of customers to a deceitful manipulation of one of the most important interest rated and now this morning, the news of yet another misselling scandal. we can see we need a real change in the culture of the industry. >> this to me is the actual key

point. you're making an argument of what the actual macroeconomic effects of it were. even if they were not real, i want to talk about the culture. what kind of culture that gets corrupted and deinvolves. looks like a lot of o these e-mails right after this. it's time to live wider awake. only the beautyrest recharge sleep system combines the comfort of aircool memory foam layered on top of beautyrest pocketed coils to promote proper sleeping posture all night long. the revolutionary recharge sleep system... from beautyrest. it's you, fully charged.

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you sold them to your client. you bet against it. and then you make a lot of money off them. they remind me of enron e-mails that we saw and enrom recordings. they remind me of conversations that were later reported about steroids in baseball. they remind me of all of the different environments in which you begin -- you have huge rewards, right, these traders that are making these swap deals, making a lot of money in bonuses, they have big rewards, and the norms inside the institution begin to dea grade in the face of that and the reason it's so appropriate isn't because of moral apropose preyum. those are the conditions that deduce this that destroy $8 trillion of wealth. there's a direct correlation. the next time, if this is -- if this is the duculture of the

institution. >> somebody said a minute ago, the results weren't massive. they were massive. this is the kind of stuff as libor went on that led to the massive housing bubble and the meltdown. i think you're ream. people can draw a direct link between those who write those kinds of e-mails and the high poverty rate. i think they're linked that really helped to bring this economy down. >> annie. >> i think what's been interesting in the last couple of months, if you look for banking institutions that came relatively unscathed out of the financial crisis, two of them were jpmorgan and barclays. jamie dimon and bob diamond. >> he's portrayed as one of those people who knew what he was doing. >> both of the firms have been dragged into the mud by the scab dals. >> i don't think we'll have

enough time to point out whether it's key or not. what i want to point out is the problem of sort of marek tock kracy. >> musical to my ears. >> what it tells people is you're in charge of these institutions because you're good and the best and people at the bottom know. >> yes. >> but there is actually approaa approached to privilege. if you have a social spomt to take care of people, that create as different society. it is the amary caratic policies that -- >> i think that's a lofty ideal. i don't think that -- >> but things have gotten worse. >> but i also thing -- >> to say, well, you're here because you have this obligation to help those lesser than you, that's a really great thing.

a lot of people hear that on their sa bakts when they go to whatever service they choose to go to. it hasn't produced any different regulation. you need teeth and laws to say, okay, if we catch you, we're going put you away, and you can't do it again. >> i think you and i disagree on this. you need accountability. >> things went bad. >> yeah, things went bad. >> but not because of this. >> the other thing is it's clear with the firms what the incentives are. in some cases barclays did it because they would make money, right? >> what's so crazy, even unclear if they netted money in the vlad f advocate which shows just how created they were. what do we know now that we didn't know last week? my answers after this. o. this summer, save up to 30%, plus get up to $100 on us. welcome to hotels.com.

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in just a moment, what we

know now that we didn't know last week. just a personal update. my book "twilights of the elites" is on sale at your local retailers and bookstore. this monday i'll be appearing at a town hall. it's been great seeing all of c francisco. it's been great seeing you across the country in boston and l.a. most of the events are sold out. if you want to get tickets, check out the twilightoftheelites page on facebook. what do we know now we didn't know last week? now we know what happens when you elect actual socialists. they tax the wealthy and big corporations. that's what happened in france held by francois elan. he unveiled a new budget to increase taxes on the rich and large corporations. in the u.s. total taxes as a percentage of gdp are the lowest in 50 years and the top marginal rate is the lowest in nearly 20

years. after world war ii corporate revenue taxes represented 40% of total revenue. today they are less than 8%. we know, in other words, no matter what his unhinged critics say, barack obama is no socialist. speaking of france, readers of the national review now know something that just isn't true. readers of the magazine blogged that they encountered a post from andrew mccarthy that read, final jeopardy, category is obama. the answer is fund-raising in paris. the question, how will obama be spending american independence day this week? turns out the mainstream media managed the locate the president in washington, d.c. located at 1600 pennsylvania avenue to which he reported photographers to attend a swearing in ceremony for members of the armed forces becoming citizens. the mccarthy leader conceded on twitter what he wrote was untrue and there's literally an entire media where jokes circulate and become folk tales and turn into

facts. we know andrew mccarthy first ghost wrote barack obama's memoirs. jerking around readers with wrong information seems to be the business model of a lot of conservative media. we now efforts to curtail the voting rights can be beaten back in states with republicans. this week republican governor rick snyder has been well chronicled by rachel maddow on her show. surprised republicans when he vetoed three bills they passed making it harder to vote, including one with an id to for absentee voting. the news was not so good in pennsylvania where a new analysis of voters revealed the voter id law signed by tom corbett could disenfranchise 700,000 citizens in the state or 10% of all voters. we know attempting to win elections by making it harder to make people to vote is the most craven kind of politics. and we know there's only one party pursuing this as a central

strategy. it says something about the party when it is apparently afraid of too many people voting. finally, we know "seventeen" magazine will no longer be photoshopping the women in the magazine. as much as we might complain about kids growing up too soon, we know there's a lot to be said for media-savvy eighth graders. i want to find out what my guests didn't know now that they knew at the beginning of the week. eric bernstein. >> i learned how disfunctional the word tax is in the city of washington, d.c. this comes off the supreme court decision about the affordable care ablt act. they call it a penalty tax to hit 1% of the population. and yet everyone is bending themselves into a pretzel, not even to say the word tax. i learned that first focus, a nonpartisan group that looks at the economy of children, thinks the u.s. needs to do a better job of giving children

more money, taking again, taxes and using taxes to fund education, health care. our kids are not doing well. our kids' health has declined over the past ten years and not all hope is lost but it's looking pretty bleak. we need to help our little ones. >> there's going to be a huge echo-effect from the recession and austerity and what it does longer term. even when we talk about short-term and long term a lot in the budget discussion, we don't talk about the short-term/long-term in the effects. short-term bad economic periods have long-term effects. carl smith. i learned why the european central bank is the most destructive institution in the world, slightly less destructive and decided for the first time in years to lower interest rates and do a little to help the european economy. >> one of the group of economists talking about just

the total failing of the central banks, particularly the ecb -- >> the worst institution in the world. >> the worst institution in the world. also, frustration with ben bernanke not doing more. we had you on the show for a riveting monetary policy debate and will have you back, but people need to keep thinking about those players in this economy as well. because it is not just -- not just the president in congress, because they are more powerful. >> we have democracies and they should be institutions with some democratic accountability. annie lowery. >> next is the medicaid expansion. so one thing i learned is a study by the urban ini institute showed some states could reduce medicaid because the government is kicking in so much money. >> i think we are now up to seven governors around the state. we have the data in for tomorrow's show to talk about, seven republican governors are saying they are not going to take it, even though it is 100% paid for the first two years.

these are also states with a short vote, there's a connection in many respects. the political culture in the states and whether folks are getting the care they need. thank you to msnbc contributor jarrett bernstein, gentleman jamila, carl and annie. thank you for getting up. that was a lot of fun. join us tomorrow on "up." we'll have joan walsh. coming up next is melissa harris-perry. coming up, melissa will tease out what's reality and what are empty promises. and why a season of talking transvaginal probes and fertilization and conception and aspirin and birth control mean it is time to bring pornography into the national conversation. melissa talks about sex and porn and shows you it is feminist to do so. how is that for a tease? that's melissa harris-perry coming up. thanks, as always, for getting

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