at the top of the show, we asked you, why are you awake. producer john tower has answers. >> we've got a john? alabama, my cat got me up to change her water bowl with her two cubes of ice. >> that's one pampered cat. >> wonder if patrick gavin does the same thing for his cats. >> don't want to know. >> we have another one. joe writes, my girlfriend is shaving my feet. >> okay. joe, that's disgusting. that's really disgusting. thanks, john. "morning joe" starts right now. if i'm president, job one for me will be creating jobs. let me say that again. my agenda is not to put in place a series of policies that get me a lot of attention and applause. my policy will be number one, create jobs for the american

people. i do not have a hidden agenda. and i submit to you this, if you want a president who will make things better in the african-american community you are looking at him. you take a look. yes, take a look. good morning. thursday, july 12th. mitt romney, staring at the naacp convention. with us former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. the executive editor of bloomberg news, al hunt and rounding out our michael bloomberg hour morning, columnist for bloomberg, margaret carlson. in new york, a man whose company i'm sure will be owned by michael bloomberg, executive editor at random house, "time" magazine contributing editor jon meacham and also editorial writer for "the washington post"

and msnbc contributor jonathan capehart. jonathan. >> yeah. >> let's start with you. >> hey, joe. >> mitt romney, at the naacp convention. that just sort of -- like those old reesy's ads, two great tastes that go great together. not a natural audience for mitt romney and it didn't go especially well. why did he do it? >> i mean, i would hope he did it because what he says, you know, looking for every vote possible and wanted to show respect to the community and ask for their votes. but you don't go there and say that you are going to be better for the african-american community than the first ever elected african-american president who has above 95% approval rating among african-americans. i mean, it just defies logic. when i saw that part of the speech and i heard that part of the speech, i gasped.

and said, oh, no he didn't. i can't believe he actually -- he actually went there. i'm still a little stunned by that. >> well, not stunned to say it if he believes it. i'm not stunned to say it. i'm glad, though, al hunt, he went there. didn't mccain or somebody blow off the naacp years ago? >> bush. >> was it bush? >> it's hard to refute what jonathan says about some of the substance. don't forget this was somebody in 1994 promised he would be better on gay rights than ted kennedy and on abortion than ted kennedy. there's a pattern here. i thought it was smart to go. i don't think he was playing to get african-american votes. he's not going to get any. he was playing for the independent white suburbanites who don't like voting for someone who doesn't care about black people. >> right. >> and so i think it was smart to go. i didn't think it was a very good speech. i think the appearance was beneficial for him.

>> bush figured out in 2000 and 2004, i think george w. bush in 2000, would -- early in the campaign it seems to me, i remember him going to one inner city stop after another inner city stop and we were all scratching our heads why are they doing it, they weren't doing it to win votes in the inner city, they were doing it to win votes in the philadelphia suburbs. >> because in the philadelphia suburbs they like a compassionate conservative which mitt romney has proved he's not this campaign. >> has he proven that? >> those primaries, i -- i think did it. but on the theory that 90% of life is showing up, it was a good thing to go. a good thing he went. he had the opportunity to show the nonindependent voter that he wasn't going to go all wobbly. the people he's still going to protect are people like him. and he -- right there in the lion's den he said i'm not going

to protect you. >> jon meacham, you talked about historical trends, we both talked about how this duopoly of parties that's been around for 150 years is sure to crack, for a lot of younger americans it may be hard to believe, but african-americans saw a democrat as the enemy from 1865 to 1965, for 100 years or so. but this is a trend that doesn't seem -- this is a voting block that doesn't seem to be breaking up any time soon, does it? >> no. and you know, the moment of this was in 1964 when lbj said to bill moyer after he signed the civil rights act i just handed the republican party to the south -- the south to the republican party for a generation. he was wrong because it was two generations. that's the only thing that was wrong with that analogy. you know, i think that in so far as people are paying attention

at this point, romney does fine by going and speaking. i think it helps him to get booed a little bit, frank sfli i think so too. >> looked as though he actually said something. which is not a frequent charge leveled at governor romney. so, in that sense, he's engaging and that's a good thing. but, it's -- you're right. jon was saying, 95%. >> approval rating. to add on something you were saying, jon, not that he got booed, when he got booed he pushed back on the booing. when they booed him and what he said on obama care he went off script and cited a particular study. when he got booed on saying he would be better for african-americans, they booed him and he said, take a look. when he did that, i thought, wow, he's really going at the audience. >> joe, what is the -- sorry. what is having run for office, what is the internal calculus

when you're in a hostile setting like that? >> to me it was always pick as many fights as possible. no. i think -- i think you -- wherever you are, you use the event to your advantage and if you're going into a hostile audience -- for me, and i think usually for most politicians, it's to do what tim kaine is doing, by the way, from what i've heard across virginia very well, he's going to all of his enemies first and saying hey, listen, i understand you're not going to be with me, but i'm going to always listen to you. you know, i always would go into neutrals. on this stage, i don't think there was any doubt about it he was playing to conservatives, some would say cynically and he was playing to independents saying, hey, you know, all the stuff you heard about me i only tell people what they want to hear, watch this. and let me give you one more clip, here's mitt romney when he

got booed talking about president obama's health care plan. >> i'm going to eliminate every nonessential expensive program i can find, that includes obama care, and i'm going to work to reform and save -- [ boo ] >> of course, steve rattner, throughout the day, mitt romney was talking about how he anticipated a tough response from the crowd. this what is he told a group of governors, quote, your friends who like obama care, you remind them of this, if they want more stuff from the government, tell them to vote for the other guy, more free stuff, but don't forget -- but don't forget nothing is really free. it has to be paid for by people in the private sector, et cetera. but he -- but i -- this seems to be like it was a setup, staged, planned political event that

was -- he knew what he was going to do. >> i think it au com plished all the things everybody said it accomplished. if he hadn't shown up there, they would say what he did with bush, he wouldn't go to the naacp -- >> which is terrible if you're running for box. >> he got to look like a man of principle, if he has any and what they are, the crowd helped him by booing him which i don't think they should have done any more than the chamber of commerce should boo obama if he went there but they did it and it worked to his advantage. >> by the way, i will say booing, is sometimes especially if you're a republican going into crowds having -- it's a good thing. >> it helps you. >> yeah. >> it helps you. sometimes in the past, al hunt, i've been at union crowds have got an bit too boisterous and independents just kind of -- it's so rare it's the democrats that are turning off the

independents, it's usually us republicans. but that booing, that may have made some people feel good inside that auditorium but they did play into mitt romney's hands. >> you checked off the boxes. this was not the sister soldier moment. >> no, it was not. >> if mitt romney wants to have his sister soldier moment he has to go before a bunch of hedge fund executives and say i'm going to take away carried interest. when that happens we'll really have -- >> boy, that will really get -- that will get them to their feet when you starts -- you've been working for bloomberg way too long. >> they won't boo him. >> they won't. >> more polite than that. >> let's talk about the economy. this all boils down to the economy at the end. headline in the "wall street journal" talking about more stimulus. what in the world could the fed do? i think interest rates are like minus 5% right now. what else can the fed do? >> there are only a couple things left for the if ed to do. one is to continue the quantitative easing, buying

debt, printing money to buy debt. instead of having it sold to other people and reduce long-term interest rates and keep those down. >> those are the margins, though. >> very much on the margin. the other thing, signal they're going to keep short-term interest rates low for a longer period of time to encourage people to borrow. more on the margins, to try to signal what the fed is doing something but there's not a lot they're going to do and certainly nothing that is going to get done that is going to change the trajectory of the economy between now and election day. >> margaret carlson, what do they do at the white house as the economy keeps stumbling along, hoping mitt romney makes mistakes? >> that's one hope. i would think. and he does make them. but they're doing the fairness argument, that, you know, the economy isn't fair to you. you're playing on unfair territory and going after the tax argument, which is, you know, it was having some effect, the bain ads were having some

effect but in the light of the economy it's hard to break through. if somebody doesn't have a job they can't hear the tax argument so much. but the tax argument i think is working and obama making the case that he's going to keep the tax cuts for the middle class, but not for the wealthy, has some resonance out there. i mean, when you hear the complaints of people who say, but wait, it shouldn't be $250,000, you're not rich at $250,000, especially if you live in the places where the people who are complaining have a high, like new york and -- your places. steve? >> is something that gets lost in this, you're not paying higher taxes at $250,000. you're paying higher taxes on your income above $250,000. if you make $260,000, your tax increase is $350. >> my democratic opponent -- if you're my democratic opponent, i cut you off halfway through that explaining. >> you just did. >> because you've lost half the audience. as you're trying to explain that, a tax increase is a tax

increase is a tax increase and do we really need to raise taxes during this. i'm saying politically i think republicans have been given a big opening with john roberts' opinion, regardless of the romney people fumbling it around, the obama health care tax, my god, al hunt, what i would have loved to have that one in 1994, the clinton health care tax. because you -- you know, that touches everybody as far as health care. >> you couldent have had that because it could have been the republican health care tax. the republican alternative was an individual mandate. >> i'm saying politically. >> which obama health care tax are you criticizing? >> the john roberts' one. >> the one that costs $53 billion over ten years? >> okay. >> the really small tiny little one? >> my point is this, talking about you've had the past week the, quote, obama health care tax brought up, and it's obama's health care plan was not fee or a this or that, it's a tax, and now you have discussion where

we're talking about $250,000 and you can have a good argument about small businesses there, and any time a conversation in a general election is about taxes i think republicans usually do pretty well. >> well, my view is that $250,000 is the top 2% of this country. the other 98% should be somewhere between indifferent and in favor of doing this because it raises $866 billion over ten years and you, of all people, i think, agree we have to do something about our defic deficits. >> right. >> this is a big piece of it. >> this is a big piece of it. i see you smirking. you can't even say that with a straight face. >> i can. >> medicare, social security, defense spending, should we go down the list? seriously, it's all these. as a republican i would say it's always taxes. you always raise taxes. tell me, mr. president, where have you cut spending? what have you done for medicare, what have you done for social security?

we've occupied, you tripled the number of troops in afghanistan, occupying countries for a decade at a time, but the answer for democrats and -- i think the fact that i'm even sounding this way, this morning, just -- democrats always walk into this. now mitt romney may not be able to do anything with it, but i think, margaret, some legislative candidates will. >> but taxes on the upper income earners have been a historically low and it has not helped the economy and it -- republicans do not reduce spending. but wait -- >> hold on a second. i want everybody at home to know i'm talking pure politics. i'm not talking economics. pure politics here. >> let me show you, steven doesn't have a chart, but i have a chart. >> okay. >> my pen, you can see that line -- >> the bloomberg people can't even afford pen with ink in it. >> we have a fish tank at our office. >> she's good with charts, though. >> here's what mitt romney pays and here's what i pay and people

like me up at 35%. so we know that the tax code is a welfare program for the wealthy. that they have not -- >> that's what i keep trying to tell rattner. i pay what you pay, rattner pays what mitt romney pays. >> you went into the wrong business. what can i tell you. >> we have a 1%er with us. >> he's a 1%er. >> he's hoping to be. >> one of these days. >> joe and i are striving and i don't know where al is. he's kind of my boss. i don't want to get into it with him. >> i think you were right. in general, republicans win on taxes. whenever you get on this health care thing, however, it's going to be fought quite with great deal of passion on the congressional level. senate house races lot may be determined by it will be absent in the presidential race because neither candidate wants to bring it up. romney can't bring it up. i mean if he wants to criticize a mandate is a tax, okay, what did you do back there? >> yeah. >> and so i think it will be fought out on the congressional level. i also think when it comes to the proposal, substantively, i

think that obama has a much better argument. every single whether it's demen chi rivlin, bowls/simpson, taxes has to be a part of it. not the ma jor, but maybe 30% of it. when you say anything over 250 ought to be taxed and chuck schumer comes out and says no, that kind of undercuts your position. >> and again, i'm talking just the pure politics and i've been talking for days about the pure politics of setting it at 250 instead of a million dollars. you look at people, right wingers how it's going to help them, i'm talking about how this impacts claire mccaskill? missouri. if i'm claire mccaskill in missouri i flinch having to talk about $250,000 to people that aren't rich to people that are aspirational, to people who have small businesses, and i'm talking about people like my parents who believed one day they would be able to make $250,000. they understand raise it on the

millionaires, they're the people that destroyed the economy and wall street, but there are a lot of small business owners that make $250,000 -- >> the miquarter millionaires doesn't have the same ring to it. >> i don't think there are people lighting torches saying those dentists that make $250,000 a year that have five chairs that want to higher a sixth, they're destroying -- >> you're right but steve is right, if you make $250,000 a year that 250 will not have a tax increase. >> $350. >> but you talk -- >> you yourself, though, are bragging about how much more money this brings into the federal government. >> raises up as you get further up. can i say one other thing? >> no. >> claire mccaskill three years ago said nobody in america should make more than $400,000. >> yeah. >> and so now i don't understand why people up to a million shouldn't have tax increases if nobody should make more than $400,000. >> don't even know what that means, other than you found

another -- other than you found another republican that you're going to give money too. >> no. >> congressman -- >> how is that scott brown thing going for you. jon meacham, there is a political upside to this, four independents in the fall when the discussion turns to the debt, i'm stupid enough to believe at some point people will start caring about the deficit and debt it will swing their vote. this does put the president in a stronger political position and that's because he's -- he raises more money at $250,000 than at the million limit. >> yeah. >> yeah. i guess so. i agree with you a moment ago, in that i think every day this conversation is about taxes or about what you and the bloomberg caucus were discussing in terms of what you're going to take away from people, hurts the president in so far as the question can be about the

possibility of growth. it's good for romney and i think people would prefer to have the argument framed in terms of how are we going to get out of this. and on a purely political matter, i think the question of obama has not -- if i were in the republican side of this, i would say the president has not helped us grow out of this problem, i can. and it should be about growing and getting us all more money, not taking more money and giving it to the government. >> as we go to break, let me ask you, i'm curious, jon meacham, you are pretty good with historical trends, let's look into the future, look into your magic 8 ball. shake it up and let us know, do you -- so you, obviously, are a big player at random house and you're the guy at "time" magazine that writes all those stories about how god is dead and america is -- >> santa claus, fact or fiction. >> and santa claus is next.

exactly. do you think bloomberg is going to buy "time" next or random house? >> they're all his helicopters. he can buy -- we're all on a big ebay for the mayor. >> exactly. >> how about nbc? >> yeah. >> yes, he could. >> i'm hoping for some smoking relaxation, that's the only thing. >> that's all you need. all right. coming up we have former white house press secretary dedemyers with us on set and also ed gillespie, senior campaign adviser for the romney campaign will be here. that will be fun. arianna huffington and actress sigourney weaver and up next mike allen with the politico playbook. first, bill karins, bill has a check on the forecast. bill what will it be looking like? >> another typical summer day out there. we're starting to really get dry areas that we weren't in a drought, southern new england, mid-atlantic region, hasn't rained that much. the heavy rain, same spot as yesterday morning.

around houston, flash flood warnings north and west with the thunderstorms along i-10. as far as the rainfall during the day today, it's going to be confined to the southeast. that's going to help the drought in georgia, but desperately need rainfall from missouri to illinois, indiana up through new england. maybe if we're lucky by saturday or sunday. pretty dry forecast. looking today very warm, but the humidity very low. the middle of the country, similar forecasts. lot of areas, upper 80s or low 90s. not seeing the extreme heat but above-average temperatures just about everywhere. only extreme heat to be found is in the desert southwest from vegas to phoenix and a place called death valley national park in california, only 128 degrees yesterday. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i don't spend money on gasoline.

i don't have to use gas. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. drive around town all the time doing errands and never ever have to fill up gas in the city. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. the last time i went to the gas station must have been about three months ago. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. ♪

th- one serving of cheesegas is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know.

welcome back. let's take a look at the morning papers. start with "the chicago tribune" says details emerging in the month long absence of congressman jesse jackson jr. yesterday they released a statement saying johnson is receiving intensive treatment for a mood disorder, denied he was being treated for alcohol and drug abuse. it comes as he faces a house ethics investigate continue connected to former illinois governor rod blagojevich. i know jesse, my thought and our thoughts and prayers are with him and hope everything is going all right. jonathan, what's in the "financial times." >> the "financial times" might be one of the most probable comebacks of all time. silvio berlusconi apparently wants his job back. those closest to berlusconi says

he believes he has a good chance of winning a fourth term as prime minister next year. the 75-year-old is awaiting trial on charges of paying for sex with an underage prostitute at a, ready for this, joe, bunga bunga party. >> yes, i am ready for that. and today marks the 50-year anniversary of the first live performance by the rolling stones. the band yesterday retraced their steps, visiting the marquee club on oxford street in london where they played their first gig in 1962. keith richards, now 68 years old, says they've been rehearsing together and are going to perform again soon. what a remarkable, remarkable band. i'm more of a beatles guy. willie is more of a rolling stone guy. but man, what a band the world's greatest rock and roll band and now 68. how does everybody feel about that? >> still going to be doing this at 68, joe. >> oh, yeah. >> you still need me, will you still feed me when you're 64?

>> you guys stones' fans? >> i was more of a beet ls fan? >> i was a softy beatles fan. >> willie is our huge stone fan. what about you, mike allen? let's bring in mike allen. >> good morning. >> how are you doing? >> after the berlusconi story, we should start politico romo. that will be a great campaign. >> cover it. >> one of the most unlikely comebacks, i can tell you comebacks are much more likely if you have a couple billion packed away. not quite such -- you know, a rags to riches story. >> he can have his motto bunga bunga and have a comeback. >> bunga sticker. >> and let's talk about politico. you've got mitt romney in jackson hole with a fund-raiser with former vice president dick cheney. what's going to be happening out there? how much money is he expecting to bring in? >> for one thing, we have to talk about how improbable it is dick cheney is doing this after a heart transplant in march. he has bounced back amazingly.

vandehei and i went to see him a couple weeks ago, he was joking, fine, doesn't have that pack that he had anymore. >> yeah. >> getting back in with republicans with his event tonight, for only $30,000 a couple, you can actually have a drink in his house in jackson hole. >> that is just a bargain, isn't it? >> yeah. >> four different levels of what you can do. if you raise or give $50,000, you get a sponsor reception. you get a photo reception for a little less than those who only pay 2,000 get the general reception -- >> dick cheney is a story here. you're right, the guy has bounced back remarkably and there are a lot of conservatives that don't like mitt romney, that would write a $30,000 check to see vice president cheney. >> the fact that they're doing it out west, a nice fusion of the utah story for romney. so this is a big moment for the campaign and the campaign in

money at least, feels so fantastic. who could have predicted that president obama would be this far back on his heels in finances. >> the supreme court. >> the supreme court. >> speaking of the supreme court, the super pac crossroads gps will be spending $8 billion to target the president in nine key swing states. and here's their latest ad. >> the weakest job adding quarter in two years. >> it wasn't supposed to be this way. over three years with crushing unemployment, american manufacturing shrinking again. president obama's plan, spend more. he's added $4 billion in debt every day. the economy's slowing, but our debt keeps growing. tell him for real job growth, cut the debt. support the new majority agenda. >> why did politico focus on this particular crossroads ad?

>> we're talking about this. this is telling how both the romney campaign and the republican outside groups will be going after obama. you have the soft, the female nare raytive and the title of the ad, tried. the script is more sorrow than in anger. focus groups show people don't like you to attack -- attack obama frontally and you even hear this from the campaign. >> it's more like your parents would say, i'm not angry with you, i'm disappointed. >> right. >> so romney says -- >> tried. poor guy. >> he's a nice guy, just not up to the job. >> yeah. >> that's so soft. independents love that kind of -- >> not up to -- as we talked to, not up to his job. but that -- all the legs were pulled out from under that argument by the supreme court. that's why the health care decision was so big. >> so important. >> for obama. you can't make a competence case anymore. this is part of a $65 million spending spree by american crossroads. the romney campaign doing well in finances came out yesterday

on this world tour, his visit with world leaders, after the olympics opening ceremony. he will be doing fund-raisers in london and israel in. one on ones with world leaders. the campaign tells us that the implicit message of those pictures will be both world leaders and people at home, there could be somebody new in the house next year. this is a 50/50 election that will put the world on notice. he may be the guy. >> on the money front, al hunt, right now certainly jim carville was talking yesterday about how barack obama spent more, but mitt's raised more and there is almost -- there seems to be this democratic feeling right now, kind of like we always do with the red neck rivera in northwest florida when you start putting the plywood on the windows because the storm is coming. almost like they know this fall storm is coming. >> yeah. it is. and although curiously, the obama super pac is now doing a lot better than they were doing before.

they're starting to shake some of the democratic trees. they don't begin to compare what's happening on the other side. you reach a point when there's so much money spent, i'm just imagining myself as a voter sitting in columbus, ohio, you know, from october 20th to election day, i think there's a diminished return. i really do. at some point it's so huge i again think it may have more of an impact on some of the congressional races. >> mika and i always talk about the lyndon mcmahon effect, where you couldn't go anywhere in connecticut where people weren't so aggravated by the 30-second ads -- >> it's happened before. michael huffington 20 years ago in california, same thing, spent a fortune and it back fired. >> take in what you're saying, makes more to front load the ads, the romney campaign is gambling on back loads. if romney loses one of the big stories will be he waited too long, they should have spent earlier. >> we shall see. mike allen, thank you so much.

>> as we say good-bye, andrea mitchell's father 98 today. sid mitchell, was of new row chel, now west lebanon new hampshire, his passions are baseball, politics and his wife cecil, married 72 years. >> oh, my gosh. >> and daughter andrea is the other passion. >> happy birthday, sid. >> happy birthday, sid. congratulations on politico romo. we can't wait. >> bunga bunga, mike. we'll be there. >> we're going to bring in retired colonel jack jacobss and exclusive first look at new issue of "time" magazine with rick stengel. but next, sports with jonathan capehart, including tim tebow's cameo at the espy awards. we'll be back in a moment with that. the capital one cash rewards card

gives you a 50% annual bonus. and who doesn't want 50% more cash? ugh, the baby. huh! and then the baby bear said, "i want 50% more cash in my bed!" phhht! 50% more cash is good ri... what's that. ♪ you can spell. [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? ha ha. ♪ is now in our new starbucks refreshers™ -- a breakthrough in natural energy. made with real fruit, starbucks refreshers™ are delicious low calorie drinks you can feel good about. ♪ rethink how you re-energize. ♪ get a boost of natural energy with a new starbucks refreshers™, in three re-energizing ways. try one on us, only at starbucks.

somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone. looking for a better place to put your cash? here's one you may not have thought of -- fidelity. now you don't have to go to a bank to get the things you want from a bank, like no-fee atms, all over the world. free checkwriting and mobile deposits. now depositing a check is as easy as taking a picture. free online bill payments. a highly acclaimed credit card with 2% cash back into your fidelity account. open a fidelity cash management account today and discover another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. according to ford, the works fuel saver package could literally pay for itself. jim twitchel is this true? yes it's true. how is this possible? proper tire inflation, by using proper grades of oil, your car runs more efficiently, saves gas. you could be doing this right now?

yes i could, mike. i'm slowing you down? yes you are. my bad. the works fuel saver package. just $29.95 or less after rebate. only at your ford dealer. so, to sum up, you take care of that, you take care of these, you save a bunch of this. that works. thought they were dead. huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem.

to sports now. where absolutely no one was playing games last night, which to me is like christmas. thank goodness, though, espn staged the sports equivalent of the oscars, the espys, to give us something to talk about.

comedian rob wriggle did the hon ers, enlisting the help of tim tebow to congratulate the kentucky basketball team. >> tim! tim tebow, everybody. [ applause ] >> you really didn't need to yell at me. i'm good. i got this, rob. coach, kentucky wild cats, congratulations on winning a national championship. you'll remember it the rest of your life. congratulations. [ applause ] >> thanks, tim tebow. >> you need anything else? >> no, i'm good. thank you very much. >> i'm here. >> i appreciate it. head on out. >> cool. >> thanks, tim. >> see ya. >> someone will show you where to go. >> that guy has been shadowing me all week. hey, sanchez, good luck with that all season. >> i get what that means.

wriggle didn't stop there, taking aim at some of sports brightest stars including this man, unibrow sensation anthony davis. i really don't get it. as well as harvard's own jeremy lynn. >> come on, i mean, look at that thing. looks like two cat ter bill pil lares are just making sweet love on your forehead. anthony, i have to ask you this, all right, is that like one of those mr. potato head eyebrows you pop on and off. you know you were picked number one in the nba draft. you should put on your happy eyebrows now, okay. what a heartwarming story. it's so refreshing to see a young asian kid graduate from harvard, move to new york and make a ton of money. $28 million, cha ching. or as his harvard classmates call it, a good start.

>> and i need everyone's attention for the next item. a woman fishing from her dock in myrtle beach nearly brought in the catch of the day. >> you got no line. >> oh! >> oh [ bleep ]. oh jesus! >> what he said. that was a 7-foot bull shark which stole her five-pound red drum fish. look at that. >> i think we're going to need a bigger boat. >> wow. >> going to need a bigger boat. >> i got to say that video, jonathan capehart, may have saved the weakest sports segment in five-year history of "morning joe." >> not my fault. baseball's out, football's out, hockey is out, whatever else is out. >> you could have made something up. >> capehart is very pleased --

>> very unattractive. >> thank you so much, jonathan. coming up next, foreign policy expert robin wright joins us for the must-read opinion pages here on "morning joe." stick around. ♪

atmix of energies.ve the world needs a broader that's why we're supplying natural gas to generate cleaner electricity... that has around 50% fewer co2 emissions than coal. and it's also why, with our partner in brazil, shell is producing ethanol - a biofuel made from renewable sugarcane. >>a minute, mom! let's broaden the world's energy mix. let's go. [ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company, we understand that commitment. and always have. so does aarp, an organization serving the needs of americans 50 and over for generations. so it's no surprise millions have chosen an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,

insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help cover some of the expenses medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. to find out more, request your free decision guide. call or go online today. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long.

welcome back to "morning joe." with us now is the distinguished scholar at the woodrow wilson center and u.s. institute of peace robin wright. author of the book "rock the cash ball, raise and rebellion across the islamic world" and editor of the book "the islamists are coming" on how the

islamist moving is becoming one of the stropgest political forces in the world. a few years back you predicted the arab spring. critics said you were living in a fantasy land and one country after another, followed what you said would happen. but, you now come to depress us. this is the morning after and it ain't pretty. >> it's not pretty on a lot of levels. the uprising really began when a young fruit vendor set himself on fire in tunisia. i went back to the same street corner where he set himself on fire and talked to the other fruit venders. we have more freedom but fewer jobs. the issue is whether it's in the united states or europe, everyone's facing is this really tough economic moment. and the vacuum politically, which the muslim brother load and other islamist groups are filling. >> and let's read an excerpt. the islamists are not only coming n several countries they've already arrived.

primed to take prominent roles down the road. altogether, islamist movements today are the most dynamic political force across the arab world and may well be for the next decade or longer. the rise to power happened quite abruptly within a single year, a rippling wave of uprising opened up political space for muslim movements that had struggled for decades. in one case, almost a century just to get in the door. the question is, do these governments look more like iran or do they look more like turkey? >> one of the interesting things is the degree to which most of the movements in the region reject both the shiite thee yokcracy in iran and sunni religious monarchy in saudi arabia. that's why egypt is so important now -- >> is turkey a monarch, possibly. >> turkey is not an arab state but it is in some ways because it has a strong economy and great relations with both east and west. turkey is the kind of thing that a lot of these fragile new

movements are trying to achieve. >> it's been trending more away from the military, sort of an egyptian-style military run state, not an islamist run state, but certainly more islamist than -- >> in many of these countries the revolution isn't over. you see the enormous tension in egypt between the military which really wants to hang on not only to its political power but economic perks and the new muslim brotherhood or the islamist led movement and egypt is a classic case. >> jon meacham, in new york, wants to ask a question. >> i'm just wondering, three, four years ago, four years in particular, this conversation would already have been about how that part of the world was viewing america at that particular hour. america seems to have fallen out of that conversation to a large extent. i want to know if you agree with that and is that a product of the end of the war in iraq, of the switch of the administration here, or the business and the

natural concerns of what's going on over there? >> well, hillary clinton will be visiting egypt this weekend to make contact for the first time with both the muslim brotherhood and the military. for eight decades the united states has tried to stay as far away as possible from the muslim brotherhood and islamist groups. now they are inside the tent the u.s. has no choice. it is true that if -- you're correct, the united states probably has never had less influence on what happens in critical countries in the region. >> but turning the question the other way. how should we feel from the u.s. standpoint in terms of the probability that they end up as regimes that are, if not friendly to us, at least neutral to us, versus i think joe's earlier question, where they might be hostile to us? >> i think they're not going to look to the united states as hosni mubarak did as the primary ally. that's why relations -- >> that's one end of the spectrum. >> but also, it --

>> what about toward the other end, how much does it move the other way? >> look, a lot of these countries re lie on western tourism and they have to be realistic at a time when they're economically in trouble. they have to create jobs. the whole idea -- the whole argument over booze and bikinis is one that a lot of them will have to face for the first time after taking -- >> tough choice. >> right. >> robin, they don't like -- >> i'm talking about the brotherhood, they don't like israel, they don't like iran as you said a moment ago. what happens if there's a conflict there? how would it unsettle -- >> a conflict between? >> iran and israel? >> look, a lot of these groups have very separate identities and the muslim brotherhood has come out and said it's going to honor camp david. it's not going to change any of its international treaties. what does it nudge in terms of wanting some amendments to the treaty, whether it's over gaza

or selling oil to israel. but at the end of the day, the muslim brotherhood is not likely to stand with iran against israel. >> when you talk about the islamic brotherhood -- >> muslim brotherhood. >> the muslim brotherhood is -- obviously we have separate muslim brotherhoods in separate countries and the one for folks at home, the muslim brotherhood in egypt which early on said they weren't interested in power and then moved closer to power and now we were a he going to dominate. where is the muslim brotherhood right now in egypt? by all of your decades of reporting the middle east, define for our viewers exactly where they are right now? >> muslim brotherhood has gone through several phases and renounced violence in the late 1960s. >> i'm talking specifically in egypt. >> that's what i'm talking about. >> specifically in egypt. that this particular movement did renounce violence and has

said it will work within the system. remember during hosni mubarak's last decade, the muslim brother hood was the largest opposition movement in parliament. it had 88 seats. they're not total an jeknews on what happens next. they said no, they weren't going to run for the majority of seats in parlment or the presidency and they did. so holding them accountable is going to be one of the primary roles for the united states. but, you know, they're much more sophisticated than we give them credit for. talking about an imf international monetary fund loan to jump start the economy which is deeply troubled. >> one final thing. dr. brzezinski always brings up, importantly i think, the history of the egyptians and what that means to the egyptian middle class and how that acts as an anchor. i always -- i remember the slaughter at luxor, maybe it was '97/ '98 where the tourists

were gunned down and that was al qaeda's biggest setback because there was this just -- the egyptians were repulsed by this violence and then i think it was -- i read that it set the islamist cause back and almost killed it in egypt. is there still sort of that middle class -- that -- will this center hold, i guess in egypt. >> the center will hold, but egypt, libya, a lot of societies are conservative socially. when they're looking for an alternative political force they turn or gravitate toward the muslim brotherhood but they also are very much wanting to live in the 21st century and it's this tension that will, you know, we're all waiting to see how it plays out. will the 21st century bring the muslim brotherhood along in the realities or will the muslim brotherhood push back and try to

re-engage on and redefine the new order in terms of strictly islam. >> all right. thank you so much. robin. have you made your decision yet? >> i'm going to consult with you afterwards. >> you better stick with a beer. robin wright, thank you so much. we appreciate it as always. great to have you. still ahead, dee dee myers, ed gillespie, arianna huffington and sigourney weaver. more "morning joe" straight ahead. thanks. [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier,

less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense. delivering mail, medicine and packages.

yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer. ♪ don't our dogs deserve to eat fresher less processed foods introducing freshpet recipes so fresh the only preservative we use is the fridge freshpet fresh food for fido welcome to hotels.com. summer road trip, huh? as the hotel experts, finding you the perfect place is all we do. this summer, save up to 30%, plus get up to $100 on us. welcome to hotels.com.

when we come back we're talking to former white house press secretary dee dee myers, be she joins the table coming up next. and she's going to explain why she's voting for mitt romney. keep it right here on "morning joe." >> hey. [ male announcer ] you sprayed them.

thought they were dead. huh?

[ male announcer ] should've used roundup. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem. i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

♪ final score of tuesday night's all-star game, the american league was defeated 8-0. the american league also lost the 2011 all-star game, as well as the 2010 all-star game. under president obama, america's own league is on a losing streak. mitt romney will fix the american league and make it competitive again. mitt romney, say anything. >> works for me. welcome back to "morning joe." we have margaret carlson and steve rattner still with us. the bloomberg coalition has been beaten down to two. meacham, capehart in new york. we're now hauling even with them and we've brought in some support unless she's been bought off by michael bloomberg in the

last 30 minutes in washington, former white house press secretary under president clinton and contributing editor to "vanity fair" dee dee myers. >> hey. >> good to see you. >> good to be here. >> made a secret pact in the green room. she's come over. >> i'm willing to be bought off by bloomberg. i'm available. >> said it on national television. >> the price is right, bring it, baby. >> i thought it was friendship, baby. >> it is but -- friendship plus. >> everyone has their price. >> we have a couple different polls. steve rattner, of course, is pointing out "the washington post" poll that makes him feel all warm inside. there's also a quinnipiac poll that say american voters consider the health care law a tax hike. let's go to the "washington post" poll. on health care, "the washington post"/abc news poll, dee dee let's get your reaction to it, the question was asked -- if the house repealed obama care again,

like the 78th, 232nd time -- >> feels so good. >> let's keep doing it. >> every day. >> every so often you need your fix. >> let's do it and while we're at it we'll find the attorney general in contempt, that's going to help us with swing voters. abc news/"wall street journal" poll, do you support the health care plan, support 47%. oppose, 47%. in april those numbers were 39% support and 53% oppose. proving what i first learned, actually watching bill clinton in 1993 and 1994, a man that drove me absolutely crazy from my law firm in northwest florida, couldn't stand him. but he passed the tax increase, which help get me elected and his numbers went up, passed the budget, passed nafta, which was highly unpopular.

americans love winners. >> right. >> they love winners. >> right. >> and they want to be on the winning side and health care is the winning side. >> that's right. i think a lot of democrats, myself maybe first and foremost, didn't realize what a huge blow that would have been had he lost that at the supreme court until it was happening and you realized this is going to have a huge impact because not only has the court affirmed the health care plan, the conservative chief justice was leading the charge, writing the opinion. >> yeah. >> and i think that was hugely important because it said, this isn't something that a bunch of liberals decide and it should be constitutional, it's something the court with an unpredicted majority said it was constitutional. the president looks like a winner and a little more coverage about what's in that bill and what would have been taken away had it failed. >> jon meacham, again, the historical impact of the conservative justice, cleave justiju -- chief justice john roberts to uphold the law yields it all the

legitimacy it will ever need among the swing voters that will decide this election. >> chief justice probabilities probably has to pay for his own lunch at ai the next couple years but aside from that -- to use a word we use a lot, important historical moment. it was a case where a chief justice in the tradition of marshall and warren, made a decision that will resonate and echo long beyond this. it's not to say that, you know, this is marbury v madison, but for all the reasons dee dee was laying out, we're in a position where the campaign could have taken a much sharper turn in a different direction if the decision had been gone the other way. >> no doubt about it. mitt romney, went to the naacp and was talking about repealing obama care and a couple other items that didn't exactly make him the most popular guy in the crowd. let's take a look at some of

what he said yesterday. >> you have to make your case to every single voter. we don't count anybody out. and we sure don't make a habit of presuming anyone's support. support is asked for and earned and that's why i'm here today. if you understood who i truly am in my heart, and if it were possible to fully communicate what i believe is in the real enduring best interest of american -- african-american families, you would vote for me for president. if i'm president, job one for me will be creating jobs. let me say that again. my ajen jen da is not to put in place a series of policies that get me a lot of attention and applause. my policy will be number one, create jobs for the american people. i do not have a hidden agenda. [ applause ] and i submit to you this, if you want a president who will make things better in the african-american community, you are looking at him.

[ booing ] >> you take a look. i'm going to eliminate every nonessential expensive program i can find, that includes obama care, and i'm going to work to reform and save -- [ booing ] >> jonathan capehart, was smiling a lot more during that speech than the comedian during the espy awards who we showed 30 minutes ago. jonathan, you wanted to jump in here. why did he go and what did he accomplish? >> well, mitt romney went because the naacp is probably the most revered civil rights organization in the country. obviously the members there are african-american and it's a show and sign of respect for the community to go. we talked about this earlier. george w. bush didn't go and there was a lot of controversy over that. we were also talking about the fact that mitt romney's speech and even his campaign says today in the papers that he gave the same speech that he gives to

every audience, which terrific. african-americans want to be talked to the same way that other groups are talked to by presidential candidates. but also, you know, going after, quote, obama care and saying that he would be better for african-americans than the actual african-american president, who's sitting in the oval office and getting booed and pushing back on those boos, plays well for his crowd, for the republican party base, pp today there's a story in "the new york times" about how the conservative base wants mitt romney to push back and to fight back harder. this is a sign that mitt romney isn't afraid to fight. but, you know, to talk about those -- to talk about those boos for a moment, yes, mitt romney did get booed and in one of the clips you showed he was applauded throughout that speech for some things that he said, but more importantly, at the end of the speech, when he said, you know, god bless and god bless you, he got a standing ovation from people in the crowd and i think that needs to be put out

there because while african-americans booed mitt romney during that speech, the fact that a republican nominee for president from a party that african-americans feels either talks down to them or scapegoats them on the national stage, for the presumptive nominee of that party to go to the naacp and to ask for their votes, is worthy of such graciousness. so we can't forget that part. yes, he was booed, but he also was given an ovation at the end. >> and if you listen to the whole speech, he got a lot of applause too. >> yeah. >> people were clearly happy that he was there. they respected the fact that he came and there was a lot that he said they liked. >> but it's the booing he's going to take with him to wyoming and the fund-raiser. >> it's a good play among independent voters who look and say one, he's not saying anything to anyone. he's going into a progressive audience, people who aren't inclined to support him and

telling them the same thing he's telling the republicans in wyoming. not something we've seen a lot of from mitt romney. it also says he's open, he's going to reach out and ask everyone for their vote and, you know, god bless him, that's what he should be doing. so good move. now, does it help when people like rush limbaugh go on the air and say he was booed because he was white. that sets everybody a long way. >> thank you, rush. >> getting right back into it. >> yeah. so dee dee, i was talking to jon meacham about how republicans have not been able to make any inroads in the african-american community since the mid '60s. >> right. >> and, of course, you worked for a guy who was better at events like yesterday than ever. what would you tell a republican candidate to do that is running this year that doesn't want to be part of another 30-year trend

of being completely shut out and getting 5, 6, 7% among african-americans? >> right. i mean bill clinton didn't always -- he wasn't a predictable liberal on every issue. >> right. >> but the most important thing was that he went into the community. i would say that's the first thing that republicans who want to appeal to african-americans need to do is actually go spend time in african-american communities. it doesn't have to be -- you don't have to have a audience but people will be polite to you but they do want you to come down and see what their lives are about. i think spending more time like jack kemp did. jack kemp had a great relationship with the african-american community even though the leadership didn't always agree with him and, in fact, often disagreed with him. he was on the ground, looking at the world through their eyes and that's a great start. if you start there and then talk about how do we address some of the problems from a policy standpoint, i think there's a lot of common ground. you have to start with relationships. >> you have to actually show up. >> you have to show up. >> so many republican candidates would come and say i'm going to

spend this much money. i said you've got to show up in the community. if you want to get the votes. >> it was like partly emotional. i mean, obama in some ways is the second black president. >> right. >> clinton had the moves. >> don't say that. >> he had the moves. >> don't say that. seriously? >> clinton was -- >> come on. >> clinton was the first black president. >> no, margaret, i'm going to have to ask you -- if we have the seven-second delay, can we put that up. i want to protect margaret from herself. hold on. secret, bill clinton may think that but nobody else does. >> [ inaudible ]. >> bill clinton could say certain things because he was not black that a barack obama -- that are harder for him to do and say. in that respect i think he was able to really connect with the community and talk about problems in the community, maybe jonathan has a better perspective on this than i do, but i think that, you know, we see now as an african-american

president it's not always so easy. >> let me try to please joe. he connected in a -- >> sure he did. >> a way that was so powerful. that he could do welfare reform. >> but in terms of this election we have the first or second black president sitting in the oval office. >> the first. >> and we have a republican candidate who is running as a very hard conservative. they're not going to be inroads made in the black community. i think, obviously, he went there for a broader purpose with his own people, the independents, to show -- and to not not go there and be called out for it as we said earlier. i think that's all it's going to amount to for this time around. >> he's not going to get a lot of votes. >> no. i think -- >> that wasn't the point. >> i'm putting the over/under at 4% from the african-american community. i'm not exactly sure which way it's going to go. dee dee, i wanted to play you a clip of mitt romney yesterday saying some kind things about your former boss that i must say, shocked me. let's roll the clip. >> i mean, the very idea of

raising taxes on small business and job creators at the very time we need more jobs, is the sort of thing only an extreme liberal could come up with. this is the sort of thing that used to be in the democratic party in the times past. bill clinton called himself a new democrat. he put that behind him. he believed in smaller government, reformed welfare as we knew it and tried to get the economy going with trade and other is provisions, lower taxes. look, new democrats have done some good things. a lot of republicans have done some good things. but this old-style liberalism of bigger and bigger government and bigger and bigger taxes has got to end and we will end it in november. >> you know, dee dee, as i explained yesterday, this was something that we republicans were not saying, as we were going down to the tidal basin in 1999 and dipping our torches in the kerosene marching up to the hill to impeach bill clinton, suddenly bill clinton is a new

democrat and -- i mean, listen, if he didn't pass the tax increase in 1993, i wouldn't have been elected in '94 and been here today. i mean this is -- it's crazy. it's crazy that -- maybe he's trying to win some swing votes there. >> yeah. i think he's trying to, you know, trying to do the bold, you know, split the democratic party. i don't hate all democrats but i just don't like the bad, big government liberal democrats like barack obama. i like a little bit. but you know who did mitt romney vote for in 1996? that was back in the day when he was a moderate didn't say he was a big republican guy, did he vote for bob dole? has he been asked. >> he got very angry when seem suggested he was cut out of the same cloth as reagan and said i was an independent when reagan was president. but, if romney wanted to make the argument about bill clinton today, it would be easy to say bill clinton today doesn't think we should raise taxes on people making $250,000. bill clinton thinks we need to

cut the corporate tax. you listen to bill clinton talking now, he's -- he believes that america is competitive globally by having low tax rates. >> and by having fair tax rates. so, for example, he would want corporate tax reform and eliminating a lot of the loopholes that have -- >> but he -- >> sprung up over the last 15 years. >> he has come out and said lower the corporate tax rate. >> but he also is, i believe, in favor of simpson-bowles the deficit reduction plan which has about $1 trillion of revenue increases in it because you cannot make the numbers work without revenue from is somewhere. >> sure. that's a very conservative -- >> the budget package which you hated so much there was half a billion dollars in revenue enhancements, tax increases but a half billion dollars of spending cuts. that's what got the attention of people like alan greenspan and the markets, steve you would know that better than i, and set us on a path toward, you know, 23 million new jobs in seven

years. >> hold on. are we relitigating the 1990s again. go ahead and talk about 1995. i'm going to pass. >> romney skips the part where bill clinton raised taxes. >> right. >> which gave us two things, it gave us prosperity and jobs and -- >> god i am so alone on this set. >> even -- >> seriously! at some point can i get a conservative -- >> that has to sit here and listen to liberals every morning. >> i want to put you further on the edge of your seat. >> there's really no evidence that the economy performance better with lower tax rates than higher tax rates. if you go back and look in the time of the glorious '50s when we had such economic growth, individual income tax rate was a little over 70% -- >> top marginal rate was even higher at one time. >> and a lot of loopholes. >> and how many americans paid 75% of their taxes. >> they paid a higher tax rate than they are now. >> and romney pays 13%.

>> what gave us ronald reagan? at 90% marginal tax rate? >> 41% interest rate. >> right. >> no no. seriously -- >> hold on one second. the liberal chorus has to be quiet long enough. let the esteemed historian talk about not only what happened in '78 in california but '79 in england and what happened in 1980 in america. >> there was a revulsion to those high taxes. >> and, in fact, there's this marvelous sort of -- this is wig history to some extent you have this remarkable thing where reagan reacts to having -- he said he would not make that fourth movie in a year because it wasn't worth it. and one of the reasons he went from being a hemo feel yak liberal self-described to being the ronald reagan who changed the conversation about government, a change that bill clinton ratified in the way eisenhower ratified the new deal to some extent, i think president clinton would agree

with that, was because he was paying too much in taxes and so it seems to me that culturally, for alexander hamilton and jefferson fighting about the excised taxes all the way to right now, there is a cultural tendency to want the government to, you know, provide basic security and do what it can, but every time the conversation is about how much we should give the government of what we make, the party that's running against the government rhetorically is going to win. >> well, obviously politically people love to be told their taxes are going to be lower and i also would agree with jon there's some level at which it does have an effect on whether ronald reagan made his fourth movie or not. >> that's silly. >> i have been working amongst people who pay high tax rates for 30 years, and i don't know anybody who worked harder when taxes went down and less hard when taxes went up. that's not the way -- that's not

the way people operate. >> that's because the people that you have been working with for years that pay high tax rates, and i mean it, they can afford the best tax attorneys the best tax accountants. it's different than a small business owner that's making $120,000 a year and is getting hit by local taxes and state taxes and national taxes. and when taxes go up on all levels as they did in 1993, because we -- >> just on the -- >> i'm talking about -- when i ran in 1994 -- this usually doesn't happen independently. if the federal government needs more money, usually the state government and local government needs more money, just like now, i won my primary running against a local tax i wrapped -- i didn't blame it on bill clinton but talked about big taxes. this has not on the people you work with, but on small business owners and teachers and everything else, raising taxes has -- has a significant impact

on their life and a thousand dollars a year makes a huge difference for a lot of americans. >> so we have -- >> rattner 97% are not affected by -- >> 97%. >> by obama's. >> so we have the big tax cuts under bush in 2001 and 2003 and what did we get for it? >> one of the weakest decades of economic performance in american history. >> well, you also had, though -- that happened for a lot of different reasons, steve. it's not that simple. you can't blame it on the taxes. you had a lot of people -- and i haven't dug up any of your quotes and i won't do it but you have a lot of people who after september 11th, said that those tax cuts came at a perfect time to stimulate the economy, which tanked after that. i mean, i don't -- you're not blaming the entire decade's lackadaisical growth to what happened with those two tax cuts. >> no. but on the other hand it's not obvious what we got from them in terms of growth and economic

performance. >> certainly stimulated the economy at a time it needed to be stimulated in 2002 and 2003. >> but then that time passed and we had the tax cuts. >> time always passes. >> not much job growth through the whole decade even though tax rates were low and appeared to be low. >> i heard the democratic talking point the first time, second time, third time. >> my turn. >> democrats started winning when they started talking like republicans. >> exactly. hope they keep talking this way nor some time. dee dee myers, stay with us. up next, do we have the see nor line, i heard he was on and was conservative. i need -- >> i need a little help. it's -- >> three on one. >> you have a mark on you, joe. don't worry. >> 80 liberals to one every morning. i can only carry so much. romney campaign senior adviser ed gillespie joins the conversation. i think i'm going to -- >> tag team. we shall return.

you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks and the young marksist leagues of the greatest manhattan area. but centurylink is committed to being a different kind of communications company by continuing to help you do more and focus on the things that matter to you.

the choice on taxes, mitt romney's plan, a 25% tax cut for millionaires, tax breaks for oil companies and corporations that shift jobs overseas, but a tax hike for 18 million working families. president obama's plan, ask the wealthy to pay a little more so the middle class pays less. eliminate oil subsidies and tax breaks for companies that outsource. two plans, your choice. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that is a new obama ad airing in swing states. with us now from boston, senior adviser to the romney campaign, ed gillespie, the man i hope i can tag and maybe you can do the rest of the show. the talking points of the young marksist league is wearing me down! >> tag me, joe. i'm ready to jump into the ring. >> we are relitigating 1993.

forget 2012. this is just -- anyway, so first of all, respond to the ad if you will that you just saw. >> you know, it's remarkable, joe. the only person calling for tax increases right now is president obama. and he wants to raise taxes on small business, job creators which is the exact wrong thing to do when we have 8.2% unemployment. governor romney is calling for tax relief. we want to keep the current tax rates for everyone. and president obama is the only one calling for raising those taxes. we know, by the way, that the tax in his health care bill that over 70% of it hits, for example, a family of four with income of $120,000. it's a square hit on the middle class. this president, you know, his response to everything is, we need to raise taxes. i don't know where they document this attack that governor romney is for a tax increase anywhere. it's just not sustainable or

supportable. but that's par for the course, unfortunately, from the obama campaign. a lot of ads with a lot of false information in them. >> you say president obama's the only one that wants to raise taxes, steve rattner wants to raise taxes and he's here now. do you have a question? >> i don't know where, ed, you come up with the idea that president obama always wants to raise taxes. i don't think the health care bill raises taxes on the middle class at all. and the tax proposal he made the other day only raises taxes on the top 2%. 97% of small businesses are not in that top 2% and most of that top 2% are people who earn wage income or lawyers or accountants they're not small businessmen and i think as you would agree, i hope you would agree, we've got to deal with the deficit somehow and that's $866 billion of revenue and where would governor romney get that revenue if not from that top 2%? >> ed? >> well, steve, as you know, governor romney has a plan to

cut discretionary spending across -- by about 5% and he also has a plan to save our entitlement programs and to save them for future generations. the problem in washington, d.c., is not that they don't have enough taxes to spend there. the problem with washington, d.c., is that they're spending too much money. and we need to get spending under control. we've seen, you know, if more government spending was the answer, then president obama would have been right and his administration would have been right when they said that the stimulus package, which cost us a trillion dollars when you include the interest payments to china, would have resulted in unemployment being around 5.6%. it's not. it's at 8.2% now. we need to allow for those small business owners and, you know, as you know, two-thirds of small business owners pay in that -- are in that subchapter s payment in the individual tax code, and historically two-thirds of new jobs in a recovery have come

from small businesses. we need to allow them to have the community to expand and to hire. we just saw from the chamber of commerce and the national federation of independent business, the small business owners, that they're sidelined, not able to hire. >> ed, really quickly, getting back to the question, though, ed, quickly the health care reform bill, a debate inside the romney campaign, is that a tax increase? was john roberts right? >> you know, joe, there's no high -- there is no higher authority than the supreme court of the united states, there is no further appeal. while many of us, you know, agreed with the dissent and its view that it was a violation of the commerce clause, the majority said it's a tax. and when you look at that tax, it falls on the middle class, steve. i'm sorry, but, you know, i -- you can say a family of four with an income of $120,000 is rich, but 70% of the onus of that tax falls on people -- i

think most people would say middle class. >> if you're a family of 4 making $120,000 and have employer sponsored health care you're not paying a tax. it's for people who don't have health care who don't cover them schls or families and end up in the emergency room and expect to get health coverage on the public dime. people who have health care, whether employment sponsored or bought on the open market don't pay anything additional, do they? >> you can help people get those health insurance without imposing the tax or mandate. >> the plan does help people get health insurance and 85% have employer sponsored health care. this doesn't affect them at all. your family making $120,000 doesn't pay a dime in additional taxes under this plan. >> and look, i understand there's a view here that the federal government ought to -- from people on your side of the aisles and of your political views that believe that the federal government should require all of those people, mandate them and force them to

pay it, our view is different. our view is that they should -- we should make it more accessible and more affordable and by doing that, by the way, dee dee, those who don't have insurance, getting them into the system by making it more affordable and accessible without harming those who are -- who do have insurance as you know. one of the things that was one of the false promises was if you liked the insurance you had you would be able to keep it. we're seeing time and time again that is not the case. the congressional budget office has projected up to as many as 20 million americans may be moved off of their private insurance plan that they liked in order to accommodate this -- bringing people into the system who don't have insurance now by virtue of the mandate. >> look forward to the romney alternative. >> it did not bring the deficit down and we're seeing the quality of care being hurt and these taxes opposed. we have a different view on this and you can't argue with the congressional budget office and its estimate of what the tax is. >> up to new york, jon meacham has a question, john?

>> we've been dangerously looking ahead. so let's stop that and return to the 1990s quickly. ed, from what -- scary moment of being in the news. ed, from what governor romney was saying yesterday, would you go so far as to say that he thinks that president clinton in the '90s had it about right in terms of the distinction in the economy the role between the government and private sector, was the clinton years kind of a model that the governor would want us to look to as we go forward? >> i couldn't think you would go that far, jon, but what he's pointing to is that, you know, there was a difference in approach. dee dee would know better than anybody on this show right now in terms of, you know, a new democrat, a third way, a more centrist approach from the democratic party, and remember he famously said the era of big government is over, signed the welfare reform bill. that is not the approach of the

democratic party today and certainly not the approach of president obama who is very focused not on, it seems to me, not on economic growth, but on, you know, this -- a goal of spreading the wealth and income redistribution. and i don't think that -- i think what we're seeing is that that's interestingly enough not helping in terms of income inequality and worse resulting in income stagnation. the average household income is down by $4,300 under president obama and i think it's because this big government approach, this return to kind of the '60s style liberalism and abandonment of the new democratic approach under president clinton, we're seeing the results of that. but no, i don't think governor romney sees president clinton as a model. he's high lighting the contrast between that approach and this taking us back to the '60s liberalism of president obama. >> to be clear -- >> the income stagnation has been going on for several decades. i mean this is a systemic

problem both parties are responsible for. >> whether they're responsible or the correlation, i know this, when president obama took office the average household income was $4,300 higher than today. that's a steep drop in 3 1/2 years, jon. >> taking us back to the '60s. that's you, rattner, and woodstock and lsd. >> best years of my life. >> of course they were. for all the reasons mentioned above. i'm showing right now, ed, a story in "the new york times" that conservatives are suggesting that mitt romney is not nimble enough, not conservative enough, not agre aggressive enough to win this campaign, that he can't counterpunch. i'm sure you've already read the article. what's your response? >> well, look, i understand frustration. there's a lot of misinformation out there. we have an ad out today, joe, that highlights the fact that this attack on governor romney and the one that -- from the obama campaign that says that

while ceo of bain capital he moved american jobs overseas, every single company that was cited in that "washington post" article increased employment in the united states while governor romney was the ceo of bain. their investments overseas took place after he had left. it's a complete fallacy and a number of independent fact checkers have said so. three yesterday came out and said this ad is flat wrong. >> ed, the concern that people -- western people on your own -- concern people on your own side saying mitt romney may not be a good enough political athlete to win this campaign? >> you know, i've been on the outside of campaigns where i've been one of those folks kind of chipping in my two cents. and offering my unsolicited advice to criticism. i take -- i like to hear the critiques, the constructive criticism. any campaign has top. you can't get too insulated. some legitimate critiques. we'll adapt. a month ago, the romney campaign

was -- we were all geniuses and in chicago they were all idiots. this week, they're all geniuses and we're all idiots. that's the nature of the political process. >> that's politics. >> at the end of the day -- it's politics and it's summer. so, you know, it comes -- it goes with the territory and we'll pay attention and listen. we got a plan to win in november and i would rather have our hand than theirs right now. >> thank you so much for being with us. ed gillespie, i'm calculating here -- >> it's even, joe. >> you have just increased the ratio of conservative to liberal to .034%. and we thank you for that. thanks a lot, ed. good luck. still ahead, we'll be talking to arian ha huffington and nominated actress sigourney weaver, keep it here on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] for making cupcakes

and deposits at the same time. for paying your friend back for lunch...from your tablet. for 26 paydays triggered with a single tap. for checking your line, then checking your portfolio. for making atms and branches appear out of thin air. simple to use websites, tools, and apps. for making your financial life a little bit easier. simple to use websites, tools, and apps. last season was the gulf's best tourism season in years. in florida we had more suntans... in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start.

our beatches are even more relaxing... the fishing's great. so pick your favorite spot on the gulf... and come on down. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home.

in every way, shape, and form. it's my dream vehicle. on a day to day basis, i am not using gas. my round trip is approximately 40 miles to work. head on home, stop at the grocery store, whatever else that i need to do -- still don't have to use gas. i'm never at the gas station unless i want some coffee. it's the best thing ever. as a matter of fact, i'm taking my savings so that i can go to hawaii. ♪

yao coming up next, rick stengel here with the new cover of "time" magazine. it's a powerful one. retired colonel jack jacobs is with us. "morning joe" back in a moment. the medicare debate continues in washington...

...more talk on social security... ...but washington isn't talking to the american people. [ female announcer ] when it comes to the future of medicare and social security, you've earned the right to know. ♪ ...so what does it mean for you and your family? [ female announcer ] you've earned the facts. ♪ washington may not like straight talk, but i do. [ female announcer ] and you've earned a say. get the facts and make your voice heard

on medicare and social security at earnedasay.org. somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone. i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy.

get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. ♪ hello...rings ♪ what the... what the... what the... ♪ are you seein' this? ♪ ♪ uh-huh... uh-huh... uh-huh... ♪ ♪ it kinda makes me miss the days when we ♪ ♪ used to rock the microphone ♪ back when our credit score couldn't get us a micro-loan ♪ ♪ so light it up! ♪ even better than we did before ♪ ♪ yeah prep yourself america we're back for more ♪ ♪ our look is slacker chic and our sound is hardcore ♪ ♪ and we're here to drop a rhyme about free-credit-score ♪ ♪ i'm singing free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ dot-com narrator: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com.

mika >> mika. >> welcome back to "morning joe." with us now, "time" magazine managing editor rick stengel here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine and also with us, msnbc military analyst, retired colonel jack jacobs. rick, a very moving "time" magazine cover this week. >> yes, it is, joe. appropriate we have the colonel here today. it's a story about a slow motion american tragedy. that is the fact that there is a suicide crisis in the u.s. military that basically for the last few years, one a day, one member of the military service has killed himself or herself and mostly guys, 95% of them are

men, have committed suicide. it's a tragic problem. leon panetta has said it's the most vexing problem he has as secretary of defense. it's a problem for all americans because it affects communities, it affects families, and we need to get to the bottom of it. it's not clear how to do so. the statistics show it happens to men and women, not all of whom have been in combat, that's the first instinctive reaction we have, these men who risked their lives for us in iraq and afghanistan, but when you look at all the numbers together, more than half are people who have not been in combat. >> well, rick, what is -- what does your reporting show? what is "time's" takeaway cause for this terrible epidemic? >> the causes are harder to figure out than in some ways how to relieve it. the military has a certain culpability itself, it spends

about $2 billion on mental health issues but the story that we have, which is a moving story, about who officers who killed themselves on the same day, each of whom reached out many times for help and got some help but it wasn't sufficient. and the military couldn't save them. and so a lot of the cliches that we have that soldiers are reluctant to reach out, that the care itself is not thoughtful are wrong, but yet the problem still persists. >> yeah. let me tell you, i'm not a fan of single factor analysis, but i think that there are probably at least two causes of this. when you talk about people who are -- have not been in combat and who feel dissociated and so on, at least part of it is a function of how we treat the military and the huge distance that exists between the military, the people who are serving, and the people who are being served. during the war in vietnam where

i fought, there was riots in the streets and all the rest of that stuff, veterans were castigated for -- a lot of them were, if not most of them, were drafties and so even though the link between the people who were being served and the people who were serving was extremely tenuous and contentious, at the end of the day there was at least a link. today there's no link. most people do not know anybody in uniform. nobody. don't know anybody in uniform. but we love the troops. one of the reasons we love the troops is because we don't have to be the troops. so it's very, very easy to say, hey, we love them, everybody is great, and all the rest of that stuff, the soldier, sailor, airman, marine, whether in combat or not, feels like an isolated minority who can never ever be in regular society. i think that's an uphill battle. that's only one. i think there's a separate issue altogether for people who have been in combat. >> jon meacham. >> what does the reporting show about how this rate shows --

stands through history? i mean this is a per ren nall problem, getting worse today than during the vietnam, during world war ii, than during world war i? >> it is worse today and cumulatively if you look at all vets who are still alive, the suicide rate is disproportionately high, much higher than it is in the general population, you had the numbers really spike between 2005 and 2008. they went down and last year they were up again by 18%. so some of the other factors is drug use on the part of men and women in the military. the fact that -- for those who have served they have many rotations over and over. those folks have a higher proportion in terms of the suicide rate even though that's not the largest proportion of them all. there's a lot of statistics that

bear out that's unique. >> margaret carlson. >> until i go home to pennsylvania i don't know anybody in the military. and you say you know, they're somewhat isolated, the colonel does, they're not in society in the way they were during vietnam, you also say that it's not just deployed soldiers committing suicide and it's not the reupping again and again. what is the factor to account for this when you're not going to afghanistan for four tours of duty or iraq? what is it about just being in the military? >> hi, margaret, nice to see you. >> hi, rick. >> my former editor. >> you know, i think jack had a beat on it. which is for these men and women in milttry who have not deployed, they do feel isolated. they don't have -- the suicides, of course, almost in all cases

occur when the soldiers are not on their base, when they're not on active duty. it's when they're home. the problems happen most when they are home. and they feel -- they are not part of the same community they were in when they were in the service. they feel isolated. they feel like people don't understand what they're going through. going through. and a lot of that is kind of, you know, armchair psychologyizing, but the fact that it happens in those circumstan circumstances and in reporting the story, the fact that is one of the biggest problems. >> jack, jack jacobs, let me bring you in. you'll be the only guy around the table who understands this, but it is always -- it is always so surprising when you go to walter reid hospital with cameras and there is somebody that had suffered grievous injuries and you ask, you always -- you heard this time and time again, back during the start of iraq and afghanistan, what do you want to do? they're like, i want to be back with my buddies.

sebastian junger, "the war," one of the most gripping books i read about the hell that these guys put up with in afghanistan and one of the remotest regions of afghanistan and he said he saw over there, and he lived with them for so long. but they looked more lost, looked more out of place, looked more confused when he would meet them back in new york at a bar. there just was -- there was a disconnect. >> it is their family. and it became their family, all their buddies became their families at a very critical time in their intellectual development when they were youths and just about adults, and they were in the crucible of war with them. and that has a tendency to forge different connections in your brain. these people -- you know, we fight to defend the republic and fight to accomplish the mission. if you ask anybody who has been in combat, i mean, actual armed combat, they'll all tell you the same thing, they fight for each

other. and therein lies another problem. most of the people who have been casualties in these in the last decade have not been in hand to hand combat, close up to the enemy, but instead have been casualties of improvised explosive devices and ambushed. makes you feel really isolated. >> yeah. >> all right. jack jacobs, thank you so much. thank you, rick stengel. the new cover of "time" magazine, an important one, one a day. we'll be right back on "morning joe." this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world.

the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com.

delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service

is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer.

thought they were dead. huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem.

♪ if i'm president, job one for me will be creating jobs. let me say that again.

my agenda is not to put in place a series of policies that get me a lot of attention and applause. my policy will be, number one, create jobs for the american people. i do not have a hidden agenda. and i submit to you this, if you want a president who will make things better in the african-american community, you are looking at him. you take a look. >> good morning. it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. look at washington, d.c. back with us on set, steve rattner, al hunt, and margaret carlson. and in new york, not owned by bloomberg, jon meacham. >> yet. >> and jonathan capehart. jonathan -- >> yeah. >> let's start with you. mitt romney at the naacp convention. that sort of -- it is like those old rees ads two great tastes

that go great together. not a natural audience for mitt romney. and it didn't go especially well. why did he do it? >> well, i mean, i would hope he did it because of what he says he's looking for every vote possible. and wanted to show respect to the community and ask for their votes. but you don't go there and say that you are going to be better for the african-american community than the first ever elected african-american president who has above 95% approval rating among african-americans. i mean, it just defies logic. i couldn't -- when i saw you that part of the speech and heard that part of the speech, i gasped and said, oh, no, he didn't. i can't believe he actually -- he actually went there. i'm still a little stunned by that. >> well, not stunned to say that, if he believes it. i'm not stunned to say it, i'm

glad, though, al hunt, he went there. didn't mccain or somebody blow off the naacp four years ago. >> i think it was bush. >> it is hard to refute what jonathan says about some of the substance. don't forget, this is somebody who in 1994 promised he would be better on gay rights than ted kennedy and better on abortion than ted kennedy. there is a pattern here. i thought it was smart to go. i don't think he was playing to get african-american votes. he's not going to get any. he's playing for the independent minded moderate suburbanites who don't like the idea of voting for somebody who doesn't care about black people. so i think it was smart to go. i didn't think it was a very good speech. i think the appearance was beneficial for him. >> margaret, bush figured in 2000 and 2004, i think george w. bush in 2000 would early in the campaign it seems to me, i remember him going to one inner city stop after another city stop and we were scratching our

heads, why are they doing it, not doing it to win votes in the inner city, they were doing it to win votes in the philadelphia suburbs. >> they like a compassionate conservative, which mitt romney has proved he's not this campaign. >> has he proven that? >> those primaries, i think did it. on the theory that 90% of was showing up, it i was good thing he went. then he had the opportunity to show the nonindependent voter that he wasn't going to go all wobbly. the people -- he's still going to protect are people like him. and he, right there, and in the lion's den, he said i'm not going to protect you. >> jon meacham, you always talk about historical trends. we talk about how this duopoly of parties is sure to crack for a lot of younger americans.

it may be hard to believe. but african-americans saw democrats as the enemy from 1865 to 1965 for 100 years or so. but this is a trend that doesn't seem -- this is a voting bloc that doesn't seem to be breaking up anytime soon, does it? >> no. and in 1964, lbj said to bill moiers after he signed the civil rights act, i just handed the republican party to the south for -- the south to the republican party for a generation. he was wrong because it was two generations. that's the only thing that was wrong with that analogy. you know, i think that insofar as people are paying attention at this point, romney does fine by going and speaking. i think it helps him to get booed a little bit frankly. >> i think so too. >> it looked as though he was -- as we were saying, it looks like he actually said something, which is not a frequent charge

leveled at governor romney. so in that sense, he's engaging, and that's a good thing. but it's -- you're right, as john was saying, 95% -- >> approval rate. and to add on to something you were saying, jon, it is not just that he got booed, when he got booed, he pushed back on the booing. when they booed him on obama care, he went off script and cited a particular study. when he got booed on saying he would be better for african-americans, they booed him and he said take a look. when he did that, i thought he's really going at the audience. >> what is the -- having run for office, what is the internal calculus when you're in a hostile setting like that? what is going through your mind? >> with me, it is always pick as many fights as possible. but, no, i think -- i think you -- wherever you are, you use -- you use the event to your

advantage. and if you're going into a hostile audience, for me, and i think usually for most politicians, it is to do what tim kaine is doing, by the way, from what i heard across virginia, very well. he's going to all of his enemies first. and he's saying, hey, listen, i understand you're not going to be with me. but i'm going to always listen to you. and, you know, i always go into neutral ice. here, though, on this stage, i don't think there is any doubt about it, he was playing to conservatives, some would say cynically, and he was playing to independents saying, hey, you know, all the stuff you heard about me how i only tell people what they want to hear, watch this, and let me give you one more clip. here is mitt romney when he got booed talking about president obama's health care plan. >> i'm going to eliminate every nonessential expensive program i can find, that includes obama care, and i'm going to work to

reform and save -- >> then, of course, steve rattner, throughout the day, mitt romney was talking about how he anticipated a tough response from the crowd. this is what he told a group of governors. quote, your friends who like obama care, you remind them of this, if they want more stuff from the government, tell them to vote for the other guy. more free stuff. but don't forget not -- but don't forget nothing is really free. it has to be paid for by people in the private sector. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. this seems to be like it was set up, staged, planned political event that was -- >> i think it accomplished all the things that everybody said it accomplished. if he hasn't shown up there, people would have said he wouldn't go to the naacp. >> which, by the way, is terrible. if you're running for president. >> right. he had to check that box.

secondly, he got to look like a man of principle which is one of the questions we all have about him, whether he has any principles and if so, what they are. and thirdly, the crowd helped him by booing him, which i don't think they should have done any more than i think the chamber of commerce should boo obama if he went there. they did it and i think it worked to his advantage. >> by the way, and i will say, booing is sometimes, especially if you're a republican, going into crowds having -- it is a good thing. >> it helps you. yeah. >> it helps you. sometimes in the past, al hunt, i've been at events, union crudes have gottcrude s have gotten a bit too boisterous. when that booing, that may have made some people feel good inside that auditorium, but they did play right in. >> i agree. he checked off all the boxes. this was not his sister soldier moment.

>> no, it wasn't. no, it was not. >> if mitt romney wants to his have his sister soldier moment, he needs to go in front of hedge fund executives and say i'm going to take care of carrot interests. >> you've been working for bloomberg way too long. >> but they won't do it. >> they won't. >> steve, let's talk about -- let's talk about the economy. this all boils down to the economy at the end. headline in "the wall street journal," talking about more stimulus. what in the world can the fed do? i think interest rates are like at minus 5% now. what else can the fed do? >> only a couple of things left for the fed to do. one is to continue the so-called quantitative easing, buying debt, printing money to buy debt instead of having it be sold to try to lower long-term interest rates which are not quite zero yet and keep those down to business will borrow more. >> these are the margins. >> these are very much on margin. the other thing they can do is

signal that they're going to keep short-term interest rates low for an even longer period of time, to try to encourage people to borrow. they're more on the margins, more to signal the fed is doing something, but there is not a lot they're going to do and certainly nothing that is going to get done that will change the trajectory of the economy between now and election day. >> margaret carlson, what will they do with the white house as the economy keeps stumbling along, hoping mitt romney makes mistakes. >> that's one hope, i would think. and he does make them. but they're doing the fairness argument, that, you know, the economy isn't fair to you, you're playing on unfair territory. and going after the tax argument, which is, you know, it was having some effect, the bain ads were having some effect. in light of the economy, it is hard to breakthrough. if somebody doesn't have a job, they can't hear the tax argument so much. the tax argument is working. and obama making the case that he's going to keep the tax cuts for the middle class, but not for the wealthy, has some

resonance out there. when you hear the complaints of people who say, but wait, it shouldn't be $250,000, you're not rich at $250,000, especially if you live in the places where the people who are complaining have a high, like new york and your places. >> remember, what gets lost in this, you're not paying higher taxes at $250,000. you're paying higher taxes on your income above $250,000. if you make $260,000, your tax increases 300 -- $350. >> if you're my democratic opponent, i cut you off halfway through that. >> you just did. >> you lost half the audience. you're trying to explain that, tax increases, tax increases, tax increases, do we knneed to raise taxes during this. i think republicans have been given a big opening with john roberts' opinion, regardless of the romney people fumbling

around the health care tax. al hunt, i would have loved to have had that in 1994, the clinton health care tax. that touches everybody as far as health care. >> it would have been the republican health care tax back then. the republican alternative was an individual mandate. >> exactly. but i'm just saying, politically -- >> which health care tax are you criticizing? >> the john roberts one. >> the one that cost $53 billion over ten years or the really small tiny little one? >> my point is this, i'm talking about you've had him the past week, the quote, obama health care tax, brought up and it is obama's health care plan was not a fee or a this or a that, it is a tax. and now you have discussion where we're talking about $250,000. and you can have a good argument about small businesses there. and anytime a conversation in a general election is about taxes, i think republicans usually do pretty well.

>> look, my view is that $250,000 is the top 2% of this country. the other 98% should be somewhere between indifferent and in favor of doing this because it raises $866 billion over ten years. and you of all people, i think, agree we have got to do something about our deficits. and this is a big piece of it. >> what people see -- >> i see -- you can't even say that with a straight face. medicare, social security, defense spending, should we go down the list, it is always -- as a republican, i would say it is always taxes. it is always -- you always raise taxes, tell me, mr. president, where have you cut spending? what have you done for medicare, what have you done for social security what have you done -- we occupied the -- we tripled the number of troops in afghanistan, we're occupying countries for a decade at a time. the answer for democrats, and i -- i think the fact that i'm even sounding this way this morning just -- democrats always

walk into this. mitt romney may not be able to do anything with it. but i think, margaret, some legislative candidates will. >> but taxes on the upper income earners have been historically low and it has not helped the economy. and republicans do not reduce spending. >> wait, hold on. >> i want everybody at home to know, i'm talking pure politics here. i'm not talking economics. i'm talking pure politics here. >> let me show you -- steven doesn't have a chart. i have a chart. here -- my pen, you see that line. so here -- we have a fish tank at our office. >> she's really good with charts, though. >> here is what mitt romney pays. and here is what i pay. and the people like me up at 35%. so we know that the tax code is a welfare program for the wealthy that they have not -- >> that's what i keep trying to tell rattner. i pay what you pay. rattner pays what -- >> you went in the wrong

business. what can i tell you. >> we have a 1%er with us, i forgot. i'm so sorry. joe and i are -- he's my boss, i don't want to get into it with him. >> joe, i think you're right. i think in general republicans win on taxes. on this health care thing, however, it is going to be fought out really quite with a great deal of passion on the congressional level. senate and house races, a lot of they may be determined by it. it will be absent in the presidential race because neither candidate wants to bring it up. romney can't bring it up. if he wants to criticize mandate as a tax, okay. what did you do back there? so i think it will be fought out on the congressional level. i also think when it comes to proposal, substantively, i think that obama has a much better argument. every single, whether it is bowles, simpson, everybody says taxes have to be part of it. maybe not the majority, 30% of it. when you go and say anything

over 250 ought to be taxed and chuck schumer comes out and says, no, that kind of undercuts your position. >> and, again, i'm talking just the pure politics and i've been talking for today about pure politics of setting it at 250 instead of $1 million, you look at people, not even talking about ght wingers, how it is going to help them, i'm talking about how this impacts claire mccaskill in missouri. if i'm claire mccaskill in missouri, i flinch of going out and having to talk about $250,000 to people that aren't rich, to people who are aspirational, to people who have small businesses, people like my parents who believed one day they would be able to make $250,000. they understand they're the people that destroyed the economy and wall street. but there are a lot of small business owners that make $250,000. >> the corporate millionaires doesn't have the same ring to it. >> i don't think there are people going around lining

torches and saying, boy, those people -- those dentists that make $250,000 a year that have five chairs that want to hire a sixth, they're destroying america. >> steve is right, if you make $260,000 a year, that $250,000 is not going to have a tax increase. it is only the 10. >> $350. $350. >> but you yourself are bragging about how much more money this brings into the federal government. >> it raises as you go further up. can i say one other thing? >> no. >> claire mccaskill, claire mccaskill three years ago said nobody should make more than $400,000. i don't understand why people up to a million shouldn't have tax increases if nobody should make more than $400,000. coming up next, the star of the new usa network series is here, sigourney weaver and the show's creator will be here. arianna huffington.

who's the top political animal of all time? >> those two would be right in the top five, wouldn't they? jon meacham's friend andrew jackson would have to be there too. >> andrew jackson would be pretty high. pretty high. first, i'm not going to make any sort of animal segue here, i'm just going to say here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> people starting to worry about you, joe. good morning, everyone. two weather stories out there today. heavy rain near houston, causing flooding concerns and the extreme heat in the western half of the country. all the red and the yellow on the map is thunderstorms. they're drenching houston now, all along i-10 a very slow morning commute there. we are going to see the rain spreading today. mississippi, louisiana, off to hopefully nashville and memphis. we need rainfall in tennessee. the worst of the drought, though, is arkansas. our fingers are crossed some of this rain will make it your way from little rock to the mississippi river. and how you about hot

temperatures? all the heat that was in the east last week is now in the west. 114 in vegas. 111 phoenix yesterday. and we're going to do it again today. 108. look at the temperatures. even salt lake city, utah, 104, that doesn't happen. everywhere else looking nice, northeast, all through theed middle of the country. washington, d.c., 90 degrees. dry in d.c. even since the power outages. even you could use some rain. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ man ] ever year, sophia and i use the points we earn with our citi thankyou card for a relaxing vacation. ♪ sometimes, we go for a ride in the park. maybe do a little sightseeing. or, get some fresh air. but this summer, we used our thank youpoints

to just hang out with a few friends in london. [ male announcer ] the citi thankyou visa card. redeem the points you've earned to travel with no restrictions. rewarding you, every step of the way. redeem the points you've earned to travel with no restrictions. welcome to hotels.com. summer road trip, huh?

as the hotel experts, finding you the perfect place is all we do. this summer, save up to 30%, plus get up to $100 on us. welcome to hotels.com. mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

let's forget it. let's forget the press conference. we'll draw a line in the sand with harris and -- what? >> you could have gotten yourself fired for that kind of behavior in front of the president. he's not just a boss. he's not your floor manager at chili's. he is the president of the united states. and whether or not this administration is trading on my popularity is not what matters now. all that matters now are the three scared innocent people sitting in a jail cell in tehran wondering what the hell their country is doing to help them. are we clear? >> that was a scene from the usa network's new six-part series "political animals." and with us now in new york, the star -- the show's star, i can't believe this, finally get to meet her, sigourney weaver and the show's creator and executive producer greg berlanti. also with us, the co-founder of the huffington post, arianna huffington in a partnership with

usa network, the huffington post is unveiling its list of the top 50 real life american political animals. oh, wow. >> going to be great. >> so sigourney, let's begin with you. obviously a great opening scene there. set it up for us and talk about the series. >> well, the series is created by greg berlanti who is a political junkie, i think you can say. and it is about -- it is about a family that was in the white house, the matriarch of the family, elaine barrish hammond is now secretary of state. and her son works with her. it is very much about the hammond family. i think the idea being that once a family has been in the white house, they want to get back in the white house, even though perhaps their experience in the white house left them printed, imprinted by that for good or for bad. >> greg, i'm looking at the plot line here. and i think all of the people

that claim this is based on hillary clinton, i think that -- >> yeah. >> i think they're just whistling. they're whistling in the dark. listen to this. >> it is such a stretch. >> it is a stretch. it is about a former first lady, right, unsuccessful presidential candidate. >> right. >> who found a new purpose as secretary of state. where the hell do you guys come up with this stuff? >> it is like -- you just come up with stuff. >> that's just not realistic. >> i think a lot of a fun of a show like this is, you know, rather than necessarily pulling from the headlines as it were, we pull from the narratives of people that are in politics. and then it is our job to make them unique and their own character and then, of course, once you have someone like sigourney weaver playing the character, you're not questioning, you know, is she imitating somebody, you just see the character that is elaine barrish. that's the hope for the show, that people show up to see behind the veil of -- and us

imagine conversations that may have happened in the halls of power. but once you get into the show and watch the characters in the show, it is our job to keep them there by doing things that are dramatic and interesting. >> it looks so compelling. >> he's like 12 or something. >> i'm 40 years old. we met before. we met in california. i was stage struck when i met you guys. >> we appreciate it. really quickly, though, dee dee myers, there is -- there is this -- i won't say obsession with the clintons, but the clintons are the giants. i mean, even not in the white house right now, everybody is always talking about them, and hillary clinton, they're already talking about four years from now. >> well, no one ever called the clinton white house the no drama clinton white house. it is a compelling story with very compelling characters, both bill clinton and hillary clinton are larger than life. the twists and turns in their personal and professional lives have been epic. and interest in them goes on.

we don't know what hillary clinton's next act is. sigourney, i would love to ask her a question. this isn't the first time you played a first lady. sigourney, you played the first lady in the film "dave" back in the day. how much do you think the expectations and opportunities around the first lady have changed since that last film and how different is it playing somebody who served in that role now? >> you know, i think it is a very demanding, undervalued job actually. who knows what really goes on at the white house for the first lady. for me it was -- what i loved about greg's script is that this is about the evolution of this woman who is a political animal from a kind of let's say a first lady who is not really herself, she's not really evolved. and, you know, by the time she's divorced her husband, and moved on and given up running for political office, she's now

actually a very, very -- a very capable secretary of state. but this private and public in the halls of power and in the living rooms of these somewhat dysfunctional families, i must say, in our story, is what is fascinating to me. i think it will be -- no matter how you powerful you are on capitol hill, when you go home, all you are is a parent with only a certain amount of control. >> and all families are dysfunctional. >> exactly. >> just the fact that they're families is what you hold on to. let's get to arianna huffington and the list. this is a perfect partnership. i'm not surprised at all that the huffington post is doing this. who is on the list and what is this about? >> it is a long list of 50 people that we are asking our community to vote on, to pick the top ten winners. and the list includes people

from bill clinton and patty roosevelt to richard nixon and lbj, the point of the list is to start conversations about power, about leadership, about what it is to be a political animal. and for me, the characteristics are to kind of relish the job. whether you're good at it or not, and to just kind of have that will to get things done. and that's why we included dick cheney. he just knew where he was going and didn't like where he was going, he was absolutely unrepentant to the end, you know? torture, no torture. and -- >> she can't help herself. >> you cannot help yourself! >> you're stuck in 2003, arianna. move along. move along. let me bring in jon meacham here, jon, these are -- for dorks like us, there is nothing better than these type of lists where you rank historical characters. i got to say, and ask if you

disagree with me, i think, as far as political animals on this huffington post list, you got lyndon johnson, fdr, and then everybody else. bill clinton may be -- may be -- i put bill clinton close. but lbj and fdr, right at the top of the list. and bill clinton -- >> i put bill clinton up against them. >> batting third. what do you think? >> have we forgotten richard nixen who held on to power through thick and thin. he would be the top of the list for me. >> and actually, by the way, that's a great point, sigourney, who got her start -- she actually worked on capitol hill. >> not for nixon. >> not for nixon. >> but for rockefeller. >> okay there you go. but jon meacham, nobody gets more votes than richard milhous nixon. >> he and franklin roosevelt were the only men to be on five

national tickets in the 20th century. it is remarkable when you think about a man from hyde park and a man from yorba linda. there is something wonderful in a way about that. i think you're right, we were chatting beforehand, actually, with the very tall women who are he here, greg and i are sort of scared. usually it is just when mika is here we're scared. >> we're being very kind to you. >> you have been unusually generation. we appreciate it. we talked about johnson. we talked about fdr, both of whom -- johnson used to follow texas school board results to relax. and fdr used to worry about who is going to be the post master in akron. he loved that. i do think bill clinton ranks with that group. and he just -- his -- the vital force and to go to arianna's point, exactly right, one of the curious things about president obama actually, which is he doesn't seem to love this. and bill clinton, you never doubted, you may have doubted lots of things about bill clinton, but the fact he liked

his job was not one of them. >> that's actually very interesting. we do not have president obama on our list of 50 people. we do not have a sitting president and our reasoning is that he has the highest intentions, but he does not seem to have the will to manifest them. and the will to manifest the intentions good or bad is at the heart of being a political animal. in fact, we included martin luther king which may seem surprising because as well as being this incredible visionary and idealist, he was a masterful tactician. the montgomery busboy could the w boycott was not an accident. >> dave rattner? >> arianna, it is a fascinating list. we can all agree on the top two or three. but then you look at some of the names and i'm not sure honestly some of your readers, the younger ones, especially, would know who mark hannah was or some of these people. >> good one, though. >> it is a good one.

one of the ones i thought was interesting was robert moses. if you talk about not on a national level, of course, but at least on a local level amassing power, there is very few people that i can think of who compare to what robert moses accomplished in new york more than getting power and using power and making an enormous change in the city. >> what about sandra day o'connor? >> you know, i think that she could be a good choice. we want to pass from you on sandra day o'connor to add to the list so the community can vote for her. that's the whole point of the list. maybe bit end of it there will be 100 people there. >> sigourney weaver, i'm looking at the "today" show interview you did. you said, i don't feel i've played strong women. i think women are strong. and i just play women. i usually get that question from male journalists. to me women have to be strong to do everything they do, raise their families, work, take care

of everyone. that, i think, makes so much sense. >> i can say that the character in "alien" was kind of strong. >> yeah. i thought you were calling me an alien. >> we get help from dee dee myers on that one. she's like, what about "alien". >> i thought you were calling me an alien. >> sorry. >> i think one of the reasons i wanted to play elaine was that i feel we need more representation, women need more representation in washington where almost 51% of the population and i feel having been a mother in new york, women get things done, we're practical, our dna has been studied and it is all about keeping the child from falling in the fire for centuries. where as the men's dna is about dragging the carcass from point a back to the cave. who would you want helping make the laws? i would want the person who knows how to keep the child from falling in the fire.

>> i would argue it is a two-party system. >> i'm in support of that. >> i would love somebody to put -- in the fire. >> let's wrap up with you, greg. you've got big stars here, a big story. what do you hope to do with this? >> i just hope people tune in and have fun with it. i really feel that there is a lot of story to tell in mine and the private lives and the psyche and, you know, the people that make our policy. that was interesting to me. i think it is incredibly, incredibly well acted. i've never worked with a group of better actors. and i think and hope the public finds it really entertaining and interesting. >> and juicy. it is really juicy. >> juicy is good. >> juicy. we like juicy. >> juicy is good. >> i love it. greg, congratulations. great job. and it was wonderful to have you all on the show this morning. you can catch the premiere of "political animals" this sunday

on usa network at 10:00 p.m., 9:00 p.m. central time. >> thank you, sigourney. thank you, arianna. this looks like a great list. >> go to huffingtonpost.com for the political animals. viewers can vote for their favorite political animals and the final ranking will be released next month. and arianna, at some point, we'll be in the same studio at the same time. and if not, let's just have lunch. thank you very much, sigourney weaver, greg berlanti and arianna huffington. thank you very much. business before the bell with brian sullivan is next. [ male announcer ] you sprayed them.

thought they were dead. huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem.

i think if i had to tell you the probability, i say the chances are we're going over the fiscal cliff. and i hate to say it, but i think that's probably right. >> if we don't get the politicians to come together and we face the most predictable economic crisis in history, i think it is absolutely clear that the fiscal path we're on is not sustainable and for me the best analogy is these deficits are like a cancer. and over time they will destroy the country from within. >> welcome back to "morning joe." frightening words from erskine bowles, former chief of staff, to president bill clinton. now, of course, brian sullivan,

let's bring you in, business for the bell, cnbc's brian sullivan. a man, brian, who is at the middle of the fight to bring fiscal sanity to this country. >> yeah. i mean, they're trying. the report was pretty much dismissed, but you heard some pretty sharp words from erskine bowles saying it is the most predictable fiscal crisis in history and he's right. here is the thing, guys, here is what i worry about. by the way, the weekly jobless claims numbers came in, big drop, 350,000. that's good. the bureau of labor statistics notes it was the holiday week and there was fewer than expected layoffs in the auto industry. good news but let's wait until next week because the holiday throws things off. here is the problem, the fact that we're talking about it on your program, watched by billions of people around the world, the fact that we're discussing -- >> armed forces radio, but go ahead. >> the fact that -- this is a serious point we're talking about it, people are hearing about it, they're starting to get worried. in other words, the potential consumer impact of the fiscal

cliff may already be here. we may not have to wait until the end of the year because people are hunkering down because they don't know what's going to happen. we're pulling forward the negative effects. there is a big concern about that out there right now. >> front page of "the wall street journal," fed weighs more stimulus. i asked steve rattner, financier, what else the fed can do and he said i think -- quite accurately, not a whole lot. maybe on the margins. what can the fed do? >> well, you know what, i agree. i'm not sure what the fed can do. you've got interest rates pretty much at the lowest in history. you guys get to interview sigourney weaver and do fun stuff. when the fed minutes came out yesterday, i'm reading the knee audien nuances of language, and the change of language is what prompted the "wall street journal" front page article. we don't know what that means. the point is, there is not much left they can do, guys.

really. what are you going to do? print more money? and then we have runaway inflation. >> steve rattner, you agree, right? >> i do agree. to the erskine bowles point, i think the forces are massing for a major discussion of these -- of the budget situation as we get closer to the cliff. you got people on every side of it. and i think you will see, if you want to close on a slightly optimistic note, you'll see bowles believers coming together and making a big push to get something done. >> let's hope so. i got to say, for myself personally, i start every morning more optimist abically because brian is on. i don't know if anybody told you, i find you to be -- i'm not saying this to say it -- a remarkably good looking man. i've been away for a couple of days and i understand mika has been absolutely hateful. >> no. >> and i want an apology now for brian. >> listen, here's my view. here's my view. with these babies, as cocky as i am, imagine if i didn't have them, my wife says i would be

completely unbearable it is h. d it is holding me back. my career is in shambles. >> you want me to apologize? >> i want you to apologize. >> will not. that was perfection. brzezinski style. >> no apology necessary. but i appreciate it. >> we love you, man. thank you for being with us. coming up next, the morning papers. and the catch of the day. other than, of course, brian sullivan. >> yes. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about market volatility. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 in times like these, it can be tough to know which ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 way the wind is blowing. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we're ready with objective insights about ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 the present market and economic conditions. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and can help turn those insights into ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a plan of action that's right for you. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 so don't let the current situation take you off course.

ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550

a look at some of the morning papers. we'll start with the chicago tribune. details are emerging on the month long absence of illinois congressman jesse jackson jr. yesterday, his office released a statement saying the congressman

is receiving intensive medical treatment for a mood disorder. jackson's absence comes as he faces a house ethics investigation connected to former illinois governor rod blagojevich. the daily chronicle in montana says mitt romney heads to jackson hole, wyoming, today for a fund-raiser with former vice president dick cheney. and from the herald sun, a woman fishing from a dock in myrtle beach was reeling in her catch when this happened. >> i got him on my line. >> oh [ bleep ]! >> okay. sarah was pulling in her fish when that bull shark snatched it. bull sharks are actually fairly common to some south carolina waters. i hate it when that happens. the best of late night is next. the medicare debate continues in washington...

...more talk on social security... ...but washington isn't talking to the american people. [ female announcer ] when it comes to the future of medicare and social security, you've earned the right to know. ♪ ...so what does it mean for you and your family? [ female announcer ] you've earned the facts. ♪ washington may not like straight talk, but i do. [ female announcer ] and you've earned a say. get the facts and make your voice heard

on medicare and social security at earnedasay.org.

final store of tuesday night's all-star game, the american league was defeated 8-0. the american league all-star also lost the 2011 all-star game, as well as the 2010 all-star game.

under president obama, america's own league is on a losing streak. mitt romney will fix the american league and make it competitive again. mitt romney, say anything.

time now to talk about what we learned today. is meacham still in new york? meach meacham, we'll start with you. >> on sunday night i'll be watching political animals on usa because of the very tall women who were here. >> jack. >> i learned that if you were in the military service, you're just as likely to commit suicidsuicide if you were out of combat than if you were in. we have to fix it and there is a psychological component to it. we can get there. >> absolutely right. dee dee? >> i learned joe scarborough has a man crush on brian sullivan and he's no longer afraid to show it. >> brian sullivan, summed it up perfectly himself today. steve rattner. >> you don't have to watch political animals to have tall women. i have two of them right here. >> it's all right. we have heels on. we'll take it. all right, guys, thanks very much. if it is way too early, it is time for "morning joe." now