answers. >> steven writes willie's still on vacation. forget about it, he just hasn't made bail yet. >> no, no, willie will be back on monday. what do you have next? >> jay from st. louis writes up watching way too snazzy with jonathan green handkerchief, you can do better, jonathan. >> you're so wrong, my friend. you don't know fashion the way i know fashion. thanks, john. "morning joe" starts right now. it was about the right to vote, because when you have the right to vote, you have the right to change things. we see a future where those rights are expanded, not diminished. where racial profiling is a thing of the past. where access to the ballot is expanded and unincumbered. did you think we'd be fighting these battles again?

the house of representatives republicans voted affirmatively to prevent the justice department from even investigating whether or not there was voter suppression. folks, there's a lot more to say, but this is preaching to the choir. >> good morning. it is friday, the 13th. okay. just go back to bed. joe and i are here with us on this friday the 13th along with a very interesting cast of characters. who's better than joe biden, who's better? anyone? >> well, we're going to disagree on this one. i love joe, but seriously? you think vol connor were on the ticket for the republican party in 2012. this is crazy talk. >> this is not your father's republican party, joe.

>> whatever. the great thing about joe biden is, he is at least self-aware, right? he said, i'm preaching to the choir. he was preaching to the choir. i expected everything -- i mean the next thing was they're releasing the the hounds in the street of birmingham, i mean the hounds. come on. seriously? it ain't 1963. >> i don't know. i thought it was pretty good. >> i love joe. >> keep that chair fier going there. we have another vice president, a former vice president, in the news coming up. with us on the set, executive editor at random house, pulitzer prize winning historian and "time" magazine contributing editor jon meacham. >> need to say that with a little more respect and drama. >> yeah, no. chairman of the deutsch incorporated donny deutsch. there's where all my respect goes. my overflow with it, right, donny? >> hi. >> you as respect. >> yeah. >> former governor of vermont and former chairman of the democratic national committee, howard dean. >> hello, howard. >> hello, mika.

>> jonathan, editor writing for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor and fill-in on "way too early" and boy, do you bring your own special touch. >> mika -- >> yes, joe. >> i hate to interrupt. this is early this morning, this is your show. >> right. >> i have to say, i leave town and everything goes bad. look at jonathan capehart this morning. i'm sorry, jonathan, i know that sometimes you got to mix things up. but the powder blue and the green handkerchief. >> what? >> explain that to me. i just don't get it. >> what were you thinking? >> blue and green. i mean -- >> i love it. by the way, what a pleasure having jonathan here. i'm not the butt of the fashion focus. >> great. >> so i happen to like it a lot. >> 6:03 i wouldn't spike that ball yet. >> you're not used to seeing blue and green together. you do not look up at the sky? i mean come on. >> all right. >> educate us. this is an interesting fact. we'll do this later.

i'm sorry, mika. it's your show. >> it's all right. >> he is a fashion plate. i found it a curious selection. this is from a guy that walks around with a [ inaudible ] all day. >> we're developing a fashion segment with eve and we'll bring jonathan on for that. it's not ready yet. >> okay. >> from washington, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, joe, you're not alone, michael steele is here with us this morning. >> there you go, joe. i'm with you, babe. >> good to have you. let's get to the vice presidents. i'm going back to joe biden because he got such a warm reception, maybe not from joe scarborough, but yesterday, at the naacp convention in houston, a day after mitt romney addressed the same audience, biden took the opportunity to paint a very clear picture of what the supreme court would end up looking like under a romney presidency. >> imagine what the romney justice department will look like. imagine when his senior adviser

on constitutional issues is robert bourque. imagine, and i mean this, this to me is one of the most critical issues in this election, imagine what the supreme court will look like after four years of a romney presidency. folks, this election in my view is a fight for the heart and soul of america. >> i liked watching your face as he spoke. >> listen, i love robert bourque. he brings up robert bork, seriously, we're refighting the battles of 1987, 1963. jon meacham, i'm curious, hisser to scli, a bit of an -- historically, a bit of an overreach here or are we seeing everybody use this naacp convention to play to their

base? >> precisely i think that's right. romney had sort of an ironic base playing to go there, sort of a step removed, but i think the -- to my mind, the, you know, biden -- nobody's better at it right now in politics than biden at sort of playing this heavy, more in sorrow, more than anger, nobody is a better knights of columbus dinner speaker than biden. >> it's true. biden has -- this is wildest, hocus-pocus in washington about let's take biden off the ticket and all this kind of stuff. nonsense. the guy is on fire. >> right. >> he connects with the base and with white working class people which obama has trouble with. he's fantastic. and that was a great speech by joe biden. he raises all the issues, after listening to him, i wouldn't be surprised if we did see connor on the ticket. he's still up for the vice presidency, right? >> i just want to challenge one thing, howard. i agree, he certainly connects

with the base. he connects with african-american voters. he connects with white working-class, blue collar voters. we love joe. that's why we love joe. at the same time, a speech like this, though, often gets white working-class voters rolling their eyes, saying come on, man, as joe biden says to himself, come on, man, this ain't 1963 and don't try to paint false choices. >> joe, some ways it is 1963p pp what they're doing with voting suppression is shocking. >> come on. >> it is shocking. 780,000 people will be ineligible to vote in pennsylvania as a result of what the pennsylvania republicans passed. this is not a joke for african-americans in this country when you start taking away their rights to vote. that is what voter suppression is aimed at, hispanics and african-americans principally. >> what was the obama campaign's explanation -- >> no, i want to go to michael steele for a second here. >> yeah. >> michael, when you start hearing democrats talking about

republicans trying to engage in voter suppression, of course the idea that all americans present a photo i.d. when they go in to vote, to a process that has always scared the lel out of me -- hell out of me, as far as the voting when you just see anybody coming in go that's me and then they vote and show a card, you look at the statistics and they don't bear out the democrats' facts. regarding, for instance, the voter i.d. and showing a photo, the percentages are so small and yet you hear joe biden or howard dean talk, and this really is, quote, 1963 all over again. >> well, it is. you know, quite frankly, i'm sick of it. it's just a load of crap at this point. i'm so tired of this every election cycle we're going to roll back the clock, republicans are going to turn back the clock. you know, you look at the plight of the black community, it's not a question of rolling back the clock. the clock has stopped. and this administration is faced

with 14.4% unemployment within the black community and it's not addressed effectively, not addressed the recidivism rate, drug addiction rate, aids infection rates. he hasn't addressed the systemic issues with respect to those things that were talked about earlier in his administration that he would handle or at least begin to address within the black community. so then to have joe biden roll up into the naacp, you're right, you're preaching to the choir and same old nonsense looking backwards. tell us how you're going to address the current problems that are affecting this community. don't worry so much about mitt romney. he had his moment and he took his lumps for that. now tell us, joe biden, barack obama, what is the black community look like four years from now if given another four years to address some of the very issues that you, you know, talk about rolling back the clock on. so for me it was just a bunch of noise and i'm tired of hearing it. >> want to get to dick cheney, but donny and then jonathan on this.

>> two questions. first of all i find it fascinating my good friend michael steele is talking about the obama people and not talking about the next four years for the black community. i haven't seen mitt romney talk about the next four years for the black community, white community, hispanic community or any other community. secondly on flipping and kind of pointing my finger at the other side, what was the obama campaign's explanation of why he was not at the naacp. >> he's the president of the united states, he has a hell of a lot of things to do. >> but there had to be something better than that. was it a calculated decision for the african-american president to not be speaking to that convention? >> but the inference in your question is that the president has never spoken to them, the naacp and that's not the case. >> right now coming the day after romney. does it to the american public, was it a strategic decision to not be there? >> strategic in the sense that you want -- >> you know what i mean. >> the role of the vice president is to go after the other guy who's at the top of the ticket. the role of the number two on the ticket is go after the

principal on the over side. you want joe biden to go to the naacp and give what is a red meat speech to the base because he can say a lot of things that the president conditican not an. it allows the president to be statesman like? he sent a taped message. >> he did a taped message before joe biden spoke. if you look at the reaction by the naacp crowd, they weren't upset joe biden was there. when he said, you know, in conclusion, they booed him because the speech was over. they wanted him to keep going. >> never happened before in joe biden's political history. >> i'm sure he stayed for a long time. okay. let's get to dick cheney after serving under four different white house administrations, dick cheney is weighing in on what type of president he thinks mitt romney would be. the former vice president joined romney near his home in wyoming for a private fund-raiser of just over 200 donors and gave a strong endorsement of romney, saying, quote, when i think of

what kind of individual i want in the oval office in that moment of crisis, who has to make those key decisions, some of them life and death decisions, some of them decisions as commander in chief who has the responsibility for sending some of our young men and women into harm's way, that man is mitt romney. according to one romney aide, the republican nominee raised another $4 million last night. jon meacham? >> there were a lot of neo cons on the fence before last night and that takes care of this. >> okay. >> talking about to go to joe's question, everybody is taking care of the base. that's what you do in the summer. hyperbole is the order of the day. i don't think any of this helps with the independent voters who will be key in five or six states. >> okay. i'm going to move on to bain. this is another big story that's making a lot of waves this morning. mitt romney's campaign is working to fend off a wave of negative stories about his tenure at the financial firm bain capital.

a "boston globe" article says romney was still listed as a top executive at the company three years after his reported departure date in 1999. the globe found nine s.e.c. filings submitted by four different entities after february of 1999 that describe romney as bain capital's boss. some show him with managerial control over five bain capital entities that were formed in january of 2002. romney has repeatedly said he is not responsible for bain's business dealings after 1999 and this is important because it goes on to say, and shouldn't be blamed for the firm's decision to close american factories and move jobs overseas. his campaign pressed the globe for a retraction. calling the article, quote, not accurate. nevertheless, the president's re-election team is pouncing on the issue. obama deputy campaign manager stephanie cutter says when it comes to the most recent

incident, the disparity in the dates may be a federal offense. >> either mitt romney through his own words and his own signature was misrepresenting his position at bain to the s.e.c., which is a felony, or he was misrepresenting his position at bain to the american people to avoid responsibility for some of the consequences of his investments. and if that's the case, if he was lying to the american people, then that's a real character and trust issue. >> romney's campaign was outraged, responding, quote, president obama ought to apologize for the out-of-control behavior of his staff which demeans the office he holds. campaigns are supposed to be hard fought by statements like those by stephanie cutter belittle the process and the candidate on whose behalf she works. joe, why don't you take it from here? >> well, it's a -- sounds like a

fascinating story. donny deutsch, i guess at the bottom of -- i mean the question that's rising here, we don't know that much about it yet because there's going to be a lot more reporting on it, but this is a question of whether the guy is telling the truth or not. forget the legalities,ing for the s.e.c. filings, this is a question about is he saying one thing to the public and doing another thing privately? this actually, you know, i'm always knocking down a lot of stories about romney, this actually sounds like a fascinating story and a story they need to knock down fairly quickly. >> this has been a horrific, horrific week for romney. this and the offshore accounts, go to is this a guy i can trust? this is -- we've talked a lot over the last few months the bain capital attack, is it useful, smart, and it was the foundation for saying hey, wait, this is not only a rich guy, because mike bloomberg is a rich guy, jfk was a rich guy, is this

one of those rich guys that is shady along the lines, has got offshore accounts, that, you know, doesn't -- and i have to tell you, this is devastating stuff. i really, really believe it. this has been a tremendously, tremendously bad week for romney. >> jon meacham. >> one interesting thing this morning for true inside baseball is the story about bain around a-13 of the "new york times" in print which is an interesting call. now, "the boston globe" helped break it. there's always some -- >> there's that. a good point. >> there's always that, but michael steele, if you were in the romney campaign this morning, how would you be feeling? >> a little bit concerned because i think to both donny's point and joe's question about the interesting nature of this story, you don't want a story like this to be interesting. you want this story to go away. and they've not done a good job

of getting this gone. and the reality of it is, and it's a very fact-based question, you're either there or you weren't. you filed a piece of paper that said you weren't, but there's a piece of paper that said you were, so it's a very fact-based analysis here that the reporting can uncover and it's a problem until they get in front of it and they're not in front of it yet. >> it's so interesting, i'm going to say something, rick perry, prophetic? >> what? >> no pathetic, prophetic. criticized romney for his work at bain capital during the republican primary. take a listen to this, jonathan capehart. >> there's a real difference between venture capitalism and vul tour capitalism. venture capitalism we like, vul tour capitalism, no. the fact of the matter is he has to face up to this at some time or another. >> okay. there you go. and you wanted to jump in. >> the question i was going to ask michael or joe or anyone around the table, why hasn't mitt romney gotten an answer

ready for this question? for the tax returns question? i mean it's not like he didn't know this was going to come up. >> this is his achilles heel and there is no answer to the tax return question. the fact is if you look at his tax return there are going to be cayman island investments, a swiss bank account, there is going to be years he probably didn't pay any taxes. this is a disaster. donny is right about this. this goes to the heart of why you do or do not vote for somebody. this thing, this is a -- what joe was talking about is right, this is a factual problem and a factual -- and michael steele, he has a paper at the s.e.c. that says in 2002, that he was the chief executive officer of bain capital. my understanding of the chief executive officer that's who runs the company and he's denying he ran the company. it's almost impossible to sell this no matter what you say when you're romney. >> so, almost impossible to sell this, let's ask joe and then joe, you take it to the panel. how do you handle this? does it release the tax returns? isn't he going to have to?

>> he's going to have to figure out -- i mean he's going to have to explain any documents that he had any control of that suggests that he was a ceo of bain capital. it's that simple if he's not telling truth or can't explain the s.e.c. filings -- he said four entities. who are those? how much control did he have over those entities? did those entity put mitt romney at the top? i find it hard to believe they would, but those are the questions if i as a republican that looked at stories broken against republican candidates with skepticism during an election year look at this and go, huh, wonder what that's about, that's a problem. i also -- this is really quickly, just want to say one other thing, want to underline what howard dean says. the achilles heel of mitt romney is the filing or the release of his past tax returns because maybe the cayman islands, because of the swiss bank

accounts. i think, i think, mika, more to the point, there may be a few years back there, where mitt romney, the guy worth $300 million, $400 million, paid nothing in taxes. i think that's what they're really afraid of. >> that's painful. >> for the long run. >> donny? >> i would love to ask everybody around the table a human gut question, forget republican, democrat, conservative, liberal, as a human being, as humans we vote for another human being, when you hear all this stuff, at the end of the day, do you really feel this guy is an absolute straight shooter? and you just don't in your gut. you just -- >> ask michael steele that question. >> michael, just as a human, forget republican -- >> i know the rest of the table -- >> like i know a lot of rich guys, not a lot of rich guys, you feel something here. i think the american voters feel this. >> okay. bill clinton. >> michael, what do you think? >> no, i think there's a real element there that, again, rubs at people and it was part of the

primary process. i think when you look at this issue, you look at the health care issue, these types of achilles' heels need to get resolved by this team very quickly which is why you've had some republicans in quarters say, they need to look at replacing some of the folks on this team to get a little sharper and better at handling these things. >> up next, politico unveils their 50 politicos to watch as we approach the election. we'll get an exclusive first look at the list next. also ahead, "the washington post's" eugene robinson, preview of "meet the press" with david gregory, political analyst richard wolfe, and from the hit hbo series "true blood" chris bauer will be here. first, bill karins with a check on the weekend forecast. bill? >> good friday to you, mika. our nation's drought report came in yesterday and, of course, it's been hot, it's been dry. the drought continues to expand across the country. this morning, we have rain but not where we need it. these areas knnear houston,

beaumont continues this morning. a couple more clouds today but a warm upper 80s to low 90s type day. chance of thunderstorms possibly near pittsburgh. everywhere in the southeast has a chance of afternoon storms. let me take you through your weekend forecast. it will remain very warm just about everywhere with a chance of showers and storms in many locations, but i don't expect a lot of washouts. your typical summertime, late afternoon storms and the same goes for sunday. although i think if you're around new york city, possibly even down to philadelphia sunday, you may get much needed afternoon rain. but there's really no relief in sight for the nationwide drought, especially for colorado through illinois and indiana. you're watching "morning joe." nice sunrise, cloudy start in new york city, brewed by starbucks.

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it's time to take a look at the morning papers. actually that's what we're doing. "the wall street journal," china released new economic numbers showing growth has slowed to its lowest level in three years. gdp for the second quarter at 7.6%. the downturn was not expected but it does point to continued struggles in the global economic recovery. capeheart. >> in the "new york daily news," reports that taxi fare in new york city is about to go up. yesterday the taxing limousine approved a 17% fare increase starting september 1st. among the changes is the fixed price between jfk airport and manhattan jumping from $45 to $52. ahead in the show, inside parade magazine's interview with president bush 41 and the former first lady now nearly 20 years since they left the white house. i look forward to reading that. also in "parade" a few words

from me and joe about summer living from joe's many family vacations to the brzezinski road trips to maine. i got hives and nervous having a nervous breakdown about that. >> didn't you read allowed from foreign affairs around the campfire. >> in between pulling over the side of the road and getting beaten. i'm serious, actually. >> explains a lot about your career choices. sorry. >> this is true. >> did i say that out loud? >> yes. >> and nationally. >> we drove my mother crazy and she would pull on the side of the road and we would get beaten. >> what would merit a beating? >> what would merit a beating? >> forgetting who the polish prime minister was. >> good morning, mom? >> no. we were terrible. we were horrible. my dad was in the white house, we went absolutely ber zeshg. three teenagers.

can you imagine my poor mother. >> especially girl teenagers are more simpler. >> it was two boys and a girl. >> you were the ring of terror. >> when you say beating. >> i mean a beating. they grabbed us by the hair and pulled us out of the car and beat us. sometimes a child deserves that. >> your father was known as a cold war hawk, so -- >> yes. >> this extended to family discipline? >> it was really rough there for a few years. my brothers are tough. >> i'm not afraid. >> we could do this in 50 minutes. >> ever think a teenager doesn't deserve a good beating sometimes? >> no. >> there you go. joining us with the political playbook it's vandehei. how are you doing? >> don't sound so darn delighted. >> good to see you. >> are you horrified about our conversation here? i bet you're the perfect parent? >> i try to be a good -- pretty good parent. >> no beatings? >> i didn't hear your conversation. >> politico is out with their 50

politicos to watch issue so who's on the list? i'll change the subject carefully. >> we have a bunch of different groupings of folks that people should watch, particularly in the years ahead. and we look at the second term if obama wins the race. a couple people are susan rice, ambassador to the u.n., who would have a big -- figures prominently in foreign policy in the second term of an obama administration. we have other folks like jen saki, other folks that might not be household names, that would figure prominently on the communication side. president obama said yesterday his biggest mistake not being a better storyteller to date. he would like to upgrade on the communications side in a second term. those are the folks in the obama side. if romney were to win, there's a bunch of people to watch, but beth myers in particular, somebody you should watch today because she is a person who's leading the search for the vice presidential pick. a long-time confident, one or two people really close, totally

trusted by the romney family. she would have a huge role in any administration and i think her role right now is bigger than ever. a lot of talk this morning, starting from this item on the drudge report about who might be the pick of condi rice according to drudge has moved up to the top of the list. >> talk about condi in a second. meacham stuck on this page. eva longoria. >> hispanic shift. >> those are the hollywood players. that's meacham's base. >> that's right. very, very -- >> he wouldn't turn the page. condi rice, this is an interesting story. topping the list, close to the top of the list? how good is the info on that? >> i don't know. i'm trying to read that one because my theory on that might be it was leaked out by the romney folks yesterday to try to take a little bit of the attention away from the bain story line. everything that we've been hearing is it's pawlenty or portman or somebody safe and predictable. rice would, obviously, be somebody if you want to bring some electricity and diversity

to the ticket, but on social issues she's so squishy in the eyes of conservatives. hard to imagine a guy not that well liked by conservatives will put a moderate republican on the ticket. seems a little risky for a risk adverse candidate like mitt romney. >> jim, wouldn't another factor be, why try to relitigate the bush years? >> yeah. i mean, i guess the argument for it, that certainly is one. anybody who has an attachment to bush is something that the romney folks are a little nervous about. if you look at the favorable ratings of republican figures in the country right now, her favorable ratings are much higher than almost any other republican in the country. other unfavorables are low. the republican party could use diversity, particularly a woman, an african-american on the ticket would certainly change the complexion of this ticket and of i think a lot of the interpretations of the romney campaign to date. it just seems too high risk. everything we've heard from the

beginning is we're not taking risks, we want the focus to be on romney versus obama without any distractions. there would be a distraction with rice because you'll have social conservatives in an uproar because of her position on abortion and social issues broadly. >> jim vandehei, thanks very much. have a great weekend. talk to you later. >> see you later. you too. >> up next, why senator harry reid suggests we should burn the u.s. olympic uniforms. always nice. >> your tax dollars at work. >> sports with jonathan capehart is next. ♪ i went down down and the flames went higher ♪ ♪ ♪ and it burns burns burns

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. time now for sports with jonathan capehart. >> [ inaudible ]. >> never fear america, there's no play by play. >> this is interesting. >> this week the u.s. olympic committee unveiled team usa's opening game uniforms. it turns out ralph lauren's decision to bring back the olympic pberet the least controversial part of the outfit. >> that's a big mistake. >> every piece of team usa's red, white and blue suits were made in china. this, of course, led to outrage on capitol hill and calls for

the olympic committee to abandon the design in favor of outfits manufactured in america. >> okay. >> today there are 600,000 vacant manufacturing jobs in this country and the olympic committee's outsourcing the manufacturing of uniforms to china. that is not just outrageous, it's just plain dumb. it is self-defeating. >> i am so upset that i think the olympic committee should be ashamed of themselves, they should be embarrassed. i think they should take all the uniforms, put them in a big pile and burn them and start all over again. if they have to wear nothing but a singleette that says usa on it painted by hand that's what they should wear. >> what's a singleette? >> what they wear, a onesy number. >> he's saying -- >> they wear in wrestling. >> did he say if they have to wear nothing but a singlette. >> that's what the senate majority leader said. >> our tax dollars at work right there. >> who's --

>> i want a shot -- >> berets. >> do the berets. the olympic committee not the greatest organization in the world. they have screw up after -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> this is unbelievable. stupid decision unbelievably stupid decision. >> despite the public outcry it's unlikely changes will be made so close to the beginning of the games. >> there's a lot of problems going on there. >> stuck with the beret. she has the beret down far. >> notice the double-breasted blazer which i took a lot of heat from. >> not from me. i liked that blazer. >> by the way, tonight at 7:00 p.m., fashion forward with jonathan and donny. >> we're creating a segment. >> that's great. >> you guys will probably be in it. >> that's great. >> up next, the must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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>> because if you don't have any fresh ideas then you use stale tactics to scare voters. if you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. you make a big election about small things. >> i'm mitt romney, and i approve this message. >> latest ad out of the romney campaign at 42 past the hour. he was criticizing the president for using campaign scare tactics. in an interview with cbs, president obama discusses the biggest mistake of his first term.

let's take a look at that. >> the mistake of my first couple of years was thinking that this job was just about getting the policy right. and that's important. but, you know, the nature of this office is also to tell a story to the american people that gives them a sense of unity and purpose and optimism, especially during tough times. >> and joe, the romney campaign responded saying, quote, president obama believes that millions of americans have lost their homes, their jobs, and their livelihood because he failed to tell a good story. being president is not about telling stories. being president is about leading, and president obama has failed to lead. joe, i'll send it to you. what do you make of that? >> well, and i'm curious what

pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham thinks of this narrative, that you have a president almost four years in saying, my biggest failing is the fact, i was far too intelligent to the american people. i should have been able to tell a story, didn't get it that you had to dumb it down. i put this up with george w. bush who was asked after four years if he had made any mistakes and he goes, can't really think of any. i mean, he was too smart for the american people is the takeaway there. >> it fits in i think of biographical view of the president which is that, you know, he's very intelligent man in a business that requires both intelligence and intellectual kind and emotional intelligence.

to defend the president is, you know, someone who would have agreed was franklin roosevelt who on september 11th, 1932 in "the new york times" magazine he said the presidency is not chiefly a job about efficiency or engineering, it's preeminently a place of moral leadership. and all great presidents have been leaders of the nation at a time when certain ideas required clarification. and so the presidents we look back on as truly transformative leaders did both. they got the policy right and articulated it. the jury is still out, though, on the president having gotten the policy right. >> joe, i actually disagree, although i've been agreeing with you lately, i disagree here. we sat around this table for months and to a person, particularly, obviously, when trying to sell his health care, he's not selling it. we actually used those words. he's not telling the story. so i actually think whether he -- the reason -- you're looking at him as a man going oh, his read internally is i'm

smarter than you and explain it. i think it's a very fair self-reflection actually. >> well i -- i can tell you, though, i can -- i think we can all look at what we've done over the past 24 hours and think of some pretty big mistakes. think of some substantial mistakes. in this case, you have barack obama who decided to go after [ inaudible ] health care reform, while millions and millions of americans were out of work and the economy wasn't turning around. i think that's a pretty -- i think -- i would hope if i were in his position, that i would be able to self-reflect a bit better than just saying you know what, i had it right, but it was a communications problem and i was basically -- i was just too smart for the american people. i needed to tell stories better. >> howard, then jonathan. >> two things about that. first of all, i actually was somewhat moved by that because this is not a man who usually

confesses his faults easily. however, i don't think this is a good idea during a political campaign. you know, self-reflection is admirable and i appreciate the president's self-reflection. i don't want to hear that again until after the elections. this is not a good idea to talk like this. i disagree with joe entirely. i don't think it was looking down on the american people. you can't show any weakness whatsoever in a presidential campaign even if it means enoughing the question and not answering it. you have to be tough-minded about this. >> governor dean the president has a good story to tell and it pains him that he hasn't been able. he himself hasn't been able to tell the story. this isn't anything new. we're hearing the president say this now, but i have heard this for at least a year, that the president feels that this is his greatest failing. he focused on the policy, didn't focus on telling the american people why he was doing what he was doing. >> don't talk about your failings during an election campaign. >> upside down, what he's

saying, i'm so serious and i had my nose to the grind stone so he's not admitting any failure. >> michael steele, what do you do when asked? >> i think howard dean has it dead right. in a contest like this you don't admit that kind of feeling or failing. but the reality of it is this, we can talk all day long about, you know, whether or not the president told the story or had the narrative right or the people didn't get it. the reality of it is is what the people got was joblessness and unemployment and bills they couldn't pay and that's the narrative that the president still has to address that they don't want to address. >> they had that before he got here. >> yeah. >> yeah, but he's the president so -- >> let me read from "the wall street journal," peggy noonan's piece, on we the people, and you take it to the panel. the 2012 presidential election is unusual. it is a crisis election like 1932 or 1980, with the american people knowing we're at a

turning point and knowing who we pick now really matters. but crisis elections tend to bring drama, a broad sense of excitement and passion. we're not seeing that this year. we've not seen political genius in mr. obama, whether you will vote for him or not, you know you haven't seen it. he seems to view politics as his weary duty. something he had to do on his way to greatness. as for mr. romney, it is a commonplace in punditry to implore him to speak clearly of where he'll go and how and why we should follow. what does this all suggest? voters this year will tend to be practical in their choice and modest in their expectations, which isn't all bad, but joy would be a lot more fun. i would say, passion and a clear division between the direction of this country, between these two candidates, would really help. >> oh, no doubt about it. you were talking to me about this offcamera a couple weeks ago, when you said, this is a year that calls for 1980.

a reagan versus a carter. real choices. instead, what we're getting is 1976, gerald ford versus jimmy carter, and i think -- i think you were dead right, that's why i wrote about it in a column later on, we deserve 1980. we deserve real choices. i don't -- i don't think we're getting real choices. i think we're getting what barack obama talked about in denver in 2008, and that is an exaggeration of very small differences. >> yeah. exactly. you and i have talked about this, a narsy sism of small phrases. i want to go with respect to governor dean and chairman steele, who have been in the arena, i think you're both wrong about the president not answering a question about mistakes. if you don't -- if you aren't honest -- >> amen. >> and talk about the presidency, then you turn in and get what joe was talking about with george w. bush who can't

think -- says he can't think of one. everyone in their own lives knows that you make mistakes all the time. all of us tell ourselves a story to explain those mistakes. >> john, the whole thing, he wasn't admitting a mistake. he was taking a perceived weakness of him, all fluff and no substance, and turning it upside down. he is saying i'm the guy getting the job you done but sorry -- i don't think there was weakness in that. >> he does believe this is a mistake. he's not playing a game here. >> jump in. >> joe? >> jon meacham, i want to follow up and underline what you said. i remember one time, again because i'm a dork, i was very young at the time, but i remember following the 1976 republican primary campaign. ronald reagan was asked a question out on the campaign trail, his response, i don't know. >> yeah. >> and everybody just sat there for a second and then they started applauding. it was some of reagan's people said it was a -- it was just a

special moment that connected him with the crowd because he seemed human. i -- i love the candidates that say, i messed up. this is what i could have done better. it lets me know that they're not in a bubble like i think george w. bush was after four years and like most presidents in the oval office get into, jon. >> there's absolutely, a great moment to switch to a half america churchhill who in that miserable winter of 1942 when everything was going wrong, we had no capital ships in the pacific, hitler was doing well, churchhill has to defend himself in a vote of confidence in the house and he says that the british people -- and i think the american people too -- can face any misfortune with fortitude and buoyancy as long as they're convinced those in charge of their affairs are not deceiving them or not themselves dwelling in a fool's paradise. that's one of the great insights

about leadership, i think, people want to know you're not misleading them. >> that's not the same thing. people want to know you're strong and fearless and churchill was strong and fearless. i -- >> do you think what barack obama said on "cbs sunday morning" is a moment of weakness? >> i don't know. i don't think it's a moment of weakness. i give him credit for it. makes me like him more. what you don't want to show especially in a situation like this campaign, is any form of weakness or self-doubt. that's what people desperately want is a strong leader who has some sense of where the country is going to go. >> great debate. more of that on "morning joe" in just a moment.

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♪ in the green room political analyst richard wolfe and bloomberg business week's josh green. british parliament shows what american lawmakers are missing out on. take a look. >> businesses, universities, young people in general [ inaudible ]. ♪ the postal service is critical to our economy, delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers.

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annary morris. >> thank you, mr. speaker. >> this government has a great record on education reform. >> here here. >> huge success of the university technical college initiative created over 25 [ inaudible ] pleased to confirm you will support a further round of obligations this autism and the funding is available so that businesses, universities, parents and young people in general pay [ inaudible ]. [ yelling ]

>> thank you. good to see the honorable lady on such feisty form. i love it. that's the british parliament, folks. british pm and marie morris during the house of commons in began as a simple question to prime minister cameron. let's compare that performance with a typical moment from the senate here at home. >> the piece of legislation we're dealing with, the house posted that last night, just before midnight, to meet their rules and it includes the transportation conference and flood insurance institute in one package. >> oh, my god. it's so painful. >> it's a long trip across the atlantic. >> i need to move. i mean seriously.

>> we got to have a parliamentary system. i know we're the best and exceptional and all that stuff but we're boring. seriously. >> masterpiece theater. >> australians -- hand to hand combat. >> harry reid has use of both limbs. >> showed fire when he was feeling regret and remorse about what he said about the uniforms. we'll show you that later. it was like, he just like, he took off his tie. you wouldn't believe it. i mean it was -- >> harry reid took off his tie, so to speak. >> yes. >> and in a fight, who do you take the woman from the parliament or harry reid. >> reid is a boxer. still take the woman from the parliament. >> donny deutsch and jon meacham with us. >> hurt her arm. >> along with michael steele in washington and joining us on set, political analyst and msnbc contributor richard wolfe and senior national correspondent for bloomberg business week josh green. the magazine's latest cover story is titled "how the more

mon church make its millions." we'll get to that in a moment. an interesting one. a lot going on here. richard, it's good to have you back on the set now. >> thank you. pleasure. >> look at this. all right. nice accent. bringing to the table. >> watch it. i've got -- >> we like it. >> it's not broken. you see her with her broken arm, she didn't care. >> very impressive. she's a conservative pm, standing behind david cameron. that was a friendly question. >> it was? it's fantastic stuff. i love it. i also think it's good. >> it is good. >> that they, you know, we've got to get some of that going without it being vitriolic. >> it is vitriolic but it does keep the leaders on their toes. they have to go out and defend what they're doing. people are set up to trip them up. that's what makes the news every week is whether they can handle the combat and deal with events and justify their own policies. you know, that's actually democracy at work in one way. there are no other checks and

balances on executive power in the british system. it would be nice to have a hybrid. >> michael steele, why can't we do this? >> well, we do in our own way, mika. it just sounds different. i mean, you know, we do have some feisty moments in the house and senate floor, although less in the senate, the greatest deliberative body in the world. but the reality of it is, the parliamentary system is much more exciting. it is much more people oriented. you've got that direct connect to your constituency and they expect you to go in and fight every day and they do listen and pay attention and those pms, they know when they walk out of there, there's going to be a whole lot of, you know, heck to pay if they don't fight. it's a different way of approaching problem solving legislatively. there's just a little more excited about it. we have harry reid. it's all good. >> yeah. >> the person who's been most interesting about this in recent years was john mccain, who speculated about possibly if he

had become president, having question time because he was so good at town meetings. i'm sure his temper would have seen him through four years without any -- >> i think president obama tried to be interactive at one point everywhere and we criticized him for that. >> too visible. >> too visible. >> down the stature of the presidency. >> jon, i wanted to ask jon, remember when bill clinton toyed with that idea of going to the well of the congress when he was -- in the early days of his health care effort to talk about, as we were talking in the last segment about, you know, obama not conveying his message, president clinton actually thought about that parliamentary approach at one time. >> yeah. and would have been fabulous at it. absolutely. the reason we didn't do that, one of the reasons we didn't do that, and in fact, jefferson stopped -- washington and adams delivered the state of the union speeches in person, and then jefferson stopped because he thought it was too regal. like the king's address coming

and then the congress had to receive you. >> show that again. >> and then nobody went to the house again until woodrow wilson. that will keep people awake here at 7:06. >> where does zachary taylor fit in all this. >> had a lot to offer to america. >> joe would appreciate that. >> he would. i wish we could put harry reid and ann-marie morris back-to-back to show him. >> mika, mika, i've been here. >> really? >> right. i forget. >> it just makes me sad that i never get a word in edgewise. >> i'm so sorry. >> i'm sitting here listening to -- i forget who exactly said it -- but -- our own system that's sort of like -- no, we don't. you have a study of contrasts where we have this remarkable scene from parliament and then

you have barack obama going on the air saying he's perfect except for the fact that he's too smart for the american people. >> he's one man, joe. >> and the most tightly controlled situation and you have democrats asking this morning on the show, why did he do that? we so protect our president, we bubble wrap our president, we put our president inside the oval office, and these days especially, there's layer after layer after layer after layer. it ain't -- it ain't andrew jackson's inauguration. and that's why the american people love seeing what they see with the british parliament because our presidents are so cloiserred and kept away from the press. >> it's such a good point. they bubble wrap the royalty because that's fun but they save the gritty nuts and bolts for the parliament. it's fantastic. all right. let's get to politics because i know you have been sitting there just dying to hear the next story.

with bated breath. >> it's amazing. >> mitt romney and his campaign working to fend off a wave of negative stories about his tenure at the financial firm bain capital. a "boston globe" article says romney was still listed as a top executive at the company three years after his reported departure date back in 1999. now the story reads in part, quote, "the globe" found nine s.e.c. filings submitted by four different business entities after february 1999 that describe romney as bain capital's boss. some show him with managerial control over five bain capital entities that were formed in january of 2002. romney has repeatedly said he is not responsible for bain's business dealings after 1999, and shouldn't be blamed for the firm's decision to close american factories and move jobs overseas. his campaign pressed "the globe" for a retraction, calling the article, quote, not accurate. nevertheless, the president's re-election team is pouncing on the issue. obama deputy campaign manager

stephanie cutter says when it comes to the most recent incident the disparity in the dates may be a federal offense. >> either mitt romney through his own words and his own signature was misrepresenting his position at bain to the s.e.c., which is a felony, or he was misrepresenting his position at bain to the american people to avoid responsibility for some of the consequences of his investments. if that's the case, if he was lying to the american people, then that's a real character and trust issue. >> romney's campaign was outraged, responding, quote, president obama ought to apologize for the outof control behavior of his staff which demeans the office he holds. campaigns are supposed to be hard fought, but statements like those made by stephanie cutter belittle the process and the candidate on whose behalf she works. joe? >> you know, richard wolfe, we're cynical of these

elections. attacks. from one campaign to the other. >> at least until the romney campaign comes out and say here are the s.e.c. filings and knock it down, as michael steele and i agree, it makes you ask, what's wrong here? why doesn't this add up? >> there are many threats to pulling this story. the only way for the romney campaign to deal with it have the candidate sit down with an editorial board at "the boston globe" and answer every single question. he's got to put out the paperwork and that includes by the way the tax returns. these s.e.c. filings, you can debate whether he had active control or not but these papers show him as ceo, managing director and that was his principle occupation and he signed those documents. this is not just problematic, it

throws into question for a start whether he was drawing a private equity salary while he was running for public office. >> okay. >> and that's the heart of it. secondly, you know, has he been telling the truth about his role in bain. >> michael steele, whether or not you think the story cuts through, i don't want to put you in that position, defend it for us. with the romney campaign, you have to deal with this crisis, what do you do? what do you say? >> i think part of it goes to the point that richard just made, i guess the question is, what exactly are we talking about here? what is the nub that you're trying to get at? what is the question you're trying to get answered. is it that he was at bain or was there something about, you know, that happened at bain during a time that he was there or supposedly not there? i think from the romney campaign, they're looking at this going this is a lot of noise about nothing because we have said he wasn't there, we've had fact checkers tell us he wasn't there, you know,

confirming he wasn't there. and so they want to move past that. but you can't get but so far until you get back to that nub, that nub question, you know, what was going on and why are you listed in all these documents if you weren't there? >> the nub question, i'm sorry, joe, go ahead. >> no. i was going to say, josh green, if there are, in fact, filings that mitt romney signed, where he listed himself as ceo and managing director of bain capital after 1999, that can't -- i don't know how you explain that away? especially if you're as good a businessman as mitt romney is. >> this is the trap he's fallen into. romney from the outset, rather than defend his record at bain, has responded to the obama attacks saying all of this happened after i left in 1999. so the whole basis of his defense to date has been that he wasn't around. if you have the securities and

exchange commission documents showing that he was, in fact, around, then in a sense the entirety of his campaign's defense collapses and you end up with what you've got today where you have the romney campaign giving this kind of hysterical flailing response demanding corrections from newspapers that they're not getting and making the problem worse. >> here's the bottom line. two kinds of rich guys. mike bloomberg who's 20 times, 100 times richer than mitt romney, but is a man of the people and then there's a rich guy, who is a private equity guy, who won't show his tax returns. >> a -- >> a car elevator, who is playing fudgy ball as far as when he was and wasn't ceo and that's a rich guy that plays outside the lines that i can't trust. and that's not an electable figure. >> okay. so josh, let's get to your article. take a look at the cover of "bloomberg business week." i will read -- my gosh. it's the cover. who wrote the piece? >> written by a wonderful reporter caroline winter inside

the mormon empires. >> thal shall built a shopping mall, own stock in burger king and open a polynesian theme park in what hawaii which should be largely exempt from the frustration of tax. >> this is a fascinating story. i did not know about it until i read this story. the mormon empire in addition to being a religious institution, is also a sprawling $40 billion business empire. >> yeah. >> and own everything from cattle ranches to shopping malls with retractable glass roofs to a polynesian theme park in hawaii, all of this -- >> what are you doing? a lot of people do that. that's america. >> oh, sure. that's right. catholic church owns polynesian theme parks. it's more intertwined with the mormon church than just about any other religion i can think of. jon, maybe you know one or two others that owns sprawling billion dollar business empires, but what's fascinating this is actually a part of the religion, that mormonism founder joseph smith believed that in order to

be spiritually fulfilled you could be materially improv rished. >> right. >> and this grew in particular after in the post-war years. can you put -- put the growth of the church's assets in historical context? >> yeah. it did begin to grow in the post-war years and over the years they've put together an enormous holding company. question got cooperation from the mormon church from the ceo of their holding company, heath mcmullen, who gave us essentially kind of a tour of the balance sheet if you will and explained what these different things were. and how all of this kind of feeds into mormonism's larger purpose, which they claim ultimately the purpose of all this business is to lift people up, to make them spiritually fulfilled, not just materially fulfilled. and caroline goes into some detail in the piece about all of the tax breaks you get in the mormon church, something mitt romney would know quite a bit

about, a lot of bain partners have donated stock, you don't have to pay capital gains, it's really this fascinating business empire that most people really don't know about. >> to be fair, churches don't -- religious institutions don't pay taxes, whatever the denomination. >> yeah. >> oh, right, yeah. real estate capitals, capital gains taxes. >> michael steele. >> i want to follow up on that point. the question is really around have they with all of those resources, the shopping malls and like, is there any connection where you can see that as part of the mission that they have around the globe, where they are, where they send their people for three years to serve in foreign lands, you know, in the missionary work that they do? is that what those dollars go to? do those dollars go to some other purpose beyond the religious aspects of mormonism? >> that's a great question. a lot of the mission is geared around finance and caroline finds some missionaries in this article, older folks, who do late in life missions, for instance, setting up a game

reserve, a hunting reserve, for profit hunting reserve, to make money for the church, ultimately to kind of spread around and further mormonism's goals around the globe. >> yeah. this is a good point. let me read the mormon church's response. can i -- >> no. go for it. >> the business week cover is in such poor case it's difficult to find the words to comment on it. sadly the cover is a reflection of the bias and speculative nature of the article itself. it is narrow and incomplete, omitting, for instance, a good deal of information given on how the church resources are used. the article misses the mark and the cover is obviously meant to be offensive to many, including millions of latter day saints. joe? >> yeah. i was -- i thought the mormon church was going to say that this cover and this story was so offensive that jon meacham could have written it for "time" magazine. god is dead and there is no

santa claus. i mean, meacham, this max of meachamism and now it's spreading to this fine institution. >> it's wounding. i'm wounded by that. you know. >> wow. wow. >> i appreciate the congressman's input on that. >> yeah. >> i do think -- i do think the -- these are complicated questions. religious institutions, of all kinds, are, in fact, empires in many ways and to look at the assets, to look at the balance sheets and the mission, is a legitimate role, but it's not something that's exclusive to the mormon church. >> in response to the statement, the cover is a little bit tongue in cheek but the article itself if you take a look is a serious, fair-minded piece that looks, you know, in an unbiased way at this empire and really gives people a sense of kind of what's going on there. >> josh green and richard wolfe, stay with us. up next, nbc's david gregory and gin robinson from "the

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it was about the right to vote, because when you have the right to vote you have the right to change things. we see a future where those rights are expanded, not diminished. where racial profiling is a thing of the past. where access to the ballot is expanded and unincumbered. did you think we'd be fighting these battles again? the house of representatives republicans voted affirmatively to prevent the justice department from even

investigating whether or not there was voter suppression. folks, there's a lot more to say, but this is preaching to the choir. >> delicious. joining us from washington, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory and pulitzer-prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson. thanks for joining us. >> good morning. >> david i take it to the panel. we seem to be in agreement this bain story cuts through. where does it go from here? >> it forces the romney campaign to continue to try to deflect, you know. i think there's recognition within the campaign, they're not going to win the story line about his time at bain. what they've got to do is try to mitigate it as best they can. you know, fight off some of the allegations like they're doing now about outsourcing, try to put back on the president the idea that he's looking in the

past and trying to fight about small things. but they've got to find a way to at least neutralize an issue that goes to this heart of whether mitt romney has an ability to connect with folks who are struggling in the country, particularly middle-class voters, or whether he is somehow beyond the rich and successful in the country. he's even a step above all of that. i think that's what all of these attacks go to. and i think that what you've seen steadily from the obama campaign is an attempt to put him outside of that mainstream and to, you know, cast him as a guy who's just too wealthy, two, too, out of touch, and it's a jab they're going to keep working on. >> i'll hone in on something you said and then you pick who here you think could do this best. how do you neutralize s.e.c. filings? how do you neutralize this issue? david? >> well, i think you, you know, they just they're fighting back very hard, you know, presenting

as many facts as they can to people looking at this and, you know, ultimately will get to the bottom of it. i mean, i don't know that people will pay as much attention to all of this as they will just to the idea the nature of ven it tour capitalism and of what bain actually did in the marketplace. but i think in the end, people -- and i think it will happen over the course of the summer, they'll make a judgment about okay, this is a guy who basically is a businessman, and, you know, they'll know ultimately go from there. >> donny. >> here's the way -- i agree with everything david said. here's the way you neutralize that one point. i was a ceo technically of my company until 2005 until i handed it off, for about two or three years before that i wasn't running the company anymore. there could have been documents i signed, where i truly was not day-to-day management. that is just a talking point and the reality is, the reality is, that the real smoking gun, i

still think is the offshore accounts. that's a certain kind of rich guy. >> yours or romney's? >> i don't have offshore accounts. i can show you a lot of people that don't. there are certain types of wealthy people that dedicate their lives, their financial mindset to playing around the system and that's something voters cannot put up with and that story line is not going to go away. >> richard? >> to the point how do you deal with this? when candidate obama faced a much smaller, but still important financial irregularity, a land deal, a small land deal with this guy tony rezko, he sat down for hours trying to answer every single question that the reporters could throw at him. that's what they've got to do. they've got to be able to say september or october, this is old, we've dealt with this. this bleeding is what hurts them. it gets to credibility. that's where he's hit. >> can i add to that, what richard said this is an issue with the tax returns as well. you know, they fought off releasing tax returns and then they released one year.

as opposed to releasing, you know, a lot. so they're creating this sort of tension about, well, what more is here? why can't you get a full airing of this. and i think part of the neutralization is putting out as much information as you possibly can, like richard says, and then you, you know, you ultimately sort of dull the edges of the story and get back to where you would like to be. the obama team is not going to stop working this punch and so they have to know that. but for romney to say if we're responding we're losing, there's a time to respond and try to put an end to it and say i refer you back to when we've covered this. >> get it all out. >> he can't. >> michael, would you advise doing a kind of checkered speech, geraldine ferraro marathon press conference. there is a genre of response to go to richard's point. >> there is. i think look, you're in the middle of the summer, you've got the olympics coming up. what better time now to put this thing in the right context to

get in front of the story. you have the olympics that will take all of that away because people will be focusing on basketball and, you know -- >> and the uniforms. >> and uniforms. and i think that, you know, if you let this drag beyond that point, then it becomes part of the narrative going into the convention and then once you get to labor day it's wide open. i think this is that moment where the bain story has to end, and the best way to do it is for romney to get before an editorial board and to lay it all out there, show he's not hiding anything, to donny's point he's not one of those rich guys, and move on. >> exactly. >> donny rich guy. >> josh? >> the problem, let's try to imagine that scenario. talk about the checker speech or pink press conference hillary clinton had. the problem with romney he would have to be surrounded by sort of a ram part of tax lawyers and offshore specialists. i think it would be harder to do because we're talking about everything from bain documents to offshore accounts. >> he's not going to show his tax returns. not going to do it.

>> eugene, how would something like that play out? >> look, i think there's one simple question he has to answer which is, was he still at bain or not? i mean this is -- this to me seems to be a matter of credibility. told the s.e.c. one thing, telling the american people another thing. i think he has to settle that. and then, going beyond, it's almost like a two-step process because then i agree with donny, he does have to address the question of the offshore accounts, offshore companies. because that does not sit well with people and you may be right that he'd have to have tax lawyers around him which also wouldn't play well, so he's got to find some way to talk about that in a simple and comprehensive way and he better do it quickly, i think. >> yeah. so david gregory, give us the big picture on this. obviously we've got a table mostly of critics here. and this is clearly not just red

meat. this is real. until he releases tax returns you're going to have conversations like this, humming across america, where it's almost -- it's almost part of the conventional wisdom that he has some offshore accounts, some things in there that look bad, until they're leased this is going to be what people think. >> who do you trust to make your life better, to make the economy better. there's a lot of goodwill for president obama, both sides in this campaign understand that. our polling indicates that. but there's a question about who's got the vision for the future. there's that polling question, does the candidate understand the concerns and the problems of people like me? and what president obama wants to make painfully clear in his argument about mitt romney, is that he doesn't. that he doesn't understand you. he doesn't get you, the middle class voter, who's struggling in this economy, yes, and the president has been, you know, responsible, as the head of the

government, but that mitt romney is not the answer. this is ultimately about raising questions about the alternative and ultimately making the argument that this is not a plausible alternative, while you've got, you know, vice president biden out there working the jab, with a middle-class appeal throughout a bunch of these swing states where he's out there as an advocate for president obama. so i think this is the ultimate contrast here and this what is we're going to see most of. >> david, the drudge report, the screaming headline about condi rice as the top of the list or near the top of the list for vice presidential pick, is it -- what is that, the strategy there. >> what's strange about that to me is this is such a button down process that the romney campaign is running which is usually the case, but they're a very corporate campaign as insiders will tell you, so the notion that they put this out there doesn't really reflect how they seem to be running their vp search.

whether it was done to disfrkts tra the bain story, whether it was done when he got booed at the naacp convention, to say he's thinking about diversity, i'm sure they're considering kunds rice, she said to me and others in the past she's interested in policy and not politics. she also creates some problems. i just don't think it's where he's ultimately headed. >> and jon meacham. >> gene, do you think that rice would just bring up too much of the previous eight years in terms of having to relitigate all of the george w. bush years? >> oh, well, i think that would be one. that's like third on my list. you know, she's pro choice, pro affirmative action. i would like to see how that plays at the convention. and yes, of course, she brings up the whole bush foreign policy and the vul cans and all of that.

i seriously doubt we'll ever get to that point. i doubt there will be a day when we sit around this table and talk about condi rice the vice presidential nominee. we'll see. >> david gregory, thanks very much. who do you have on sunday's "meet the press"? >> we've got senators kyle and durbin for the tax debate for the fall and pick up on our political round table on defining mitt romney and where it stands in the summer campaign. >> thank you so much for coming on. eugene, thank you as well. what's your column on this morning? >> it's on penn state and joe paterno. >> that's -- i can't -- you think it couldn't get worse. thank you very much. still ahead, the rise of the creative class. author richard lorda breaks down the most innovative places. "morning joe" is back in a minute. you know what i love about this country?

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joshua greene thank you. we'll look for the new issue of bloomberg business week. you'll get controversy on this. >> i think it's arrived. >> wall street's wildest con, fooled the biggest names in banking with a half billion dollar ponzi scheme next on "morning joe." ask me what it's like when my tempur-pedic moves.

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let's talk about greed and intrigue. with us now, guy lawson. the author of "ok toe pus." the book gives a real-life account of one of the biggest financial frauds in recent history masterminded by a man named samuel israel. guy writes this about his role, by the time the bayou haej fund imploded in 2005, it had grown to $450 million. or so its investors were led to believe. effectively the fund was a ponzi scheme. bayou's chief executive office samuel israel iii was later sentenced to 20 years in jail for orchestrating one of the most unbelievable frauds in wall street history, plus two years

for faking his suicide. and it gets even more crazy from there because apparently he was conned at the height of all of this. thanks for being on the show. "octopus". >> that's it. >> what's your draw? >> to sam? >> yeah. >> i worked on wall street when i moved to new york and saw like how the ocean of possibility for fraud, they were counting on me as a junior lawyer to do the kind of deli against and research and if they were counting on me they were in a lot of trouble. i was just a kid. >> that's frightening, actually, isn't it? >> tip of the iceberg. >> yeah. >> what? >> yeah. it's the kids and the low-paid workers, the regulators, that are supposed to keep the gate and they don't do it. >> tell us about this guy and how he did what he did, because if this is one of the most unbelievable frauds how many more are out there. >> that's just it. sam is the child of a rom nent trading family, the israel and aarons family. he grew up in wealth and privilege with alan greenspan

and larry tish's family friend, country club in west chester. he was an expert in cheating, front running, apprentice into the trades and black arts of it. when he funds started to fail he could admit failure and go home in shame or cheat. like all these guys -- not like all these guys, madoff started out as a fraud ster, he started with eight little lie, lies get bigger, buying time, trying to trade your way out of it. the thing that makes this different and the story different, by 2004 he's down $150 million, he's living inside an ocean of lies, inside a mansion, being crushed by his lies, he has $150 million in cash. what does he do? bets it all on a -- the existence of a secret market that a cia con man named robert booth nickels convinces him about and that's the octopus, and then the trick where the con man gets coned. >> i always ask this question, and there may not be one answer

to it. this guy, madoff, the list goes on, what is the psychological threat of these people? do they think they're smarter than others? is it self-loathing? sociopaths? what -- it's almost you can't phantom what is driving these guys? >> that's, you know, i looked at madoff, the madoff story as a sore owe pathic story. the guy is one thing. i'll take you money and sit on it. sam is a human story. sam moves through time, his character changes, trying to solve his problem. a human story. his motives are mixed and they change, but they really are always human. >> my point is, do these guys dilute themselves and say to themselves, i'm going to get there, i'm not doing anything wrong? i don't care, i'm going to screw this person and screw them? >> sam, much more the former. sam was always trying to solve it, always looking for the way to save himself, save his fund and, you know, that's, indeed, what made him prey for another con man. the urge to fix the problem.

>> john na thanh. >> guy, you said something interesting a moment ago. sam, he apprenticed with various people and learned the black arts. so who are these people? we're focused on sam here, but it sounds like he's the tip of the iceberg. >> the people who set the libor bank rates, who front run the market at goldman sachs and create these derivatives and trade ahead of their clients. it's a cultural thing. it's smart people, really smart people, mobsters that call them wise guys, wall street guys are smart guys. >> let's bridge it back to romney and once again, i'm not saying romney is dishonest. >> be careful here. >> we talked about this offcamera between entrepreneurial rich guys and wall street rich guys. these entire art is about beating the system and proving i'm smarter than the next number. >> you don't steal, you don't walk into it like a bank and steal a billion dollars. you dice it into a bucket at a time. it becomes invisible.

>> god. >> so sam understood the basic, you know, kind of the truth of wall street in a certain way. everyone -- lots of people on wall street are honest. i don't mean to imply the whole thing is corrupt. when sam was told by the cia agent everything is a fraud, the federal reserve is a ponzi scheme, because he had experienced so much dishonesty through his life and he was so dishonest he fell for it. >> the book is "octopus" sam israel, the secret market and wall street's wildest con. guy lawson, thank you so much. that looks good. and frightening and very bad at the same time. up next, from hbo's hit vampire series "true blood" actor chris bauer joins us on the set. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. thanks for the shot of the white wall and our new page. [ man ] ever year, sophia and i

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you got to like that figure, huh? now that you're a local sex symbol? >> shut up. >> what are you talking about? what's she talking about? answer me, officer, or i'll have you patrolling park urinals the

rest of the month. is that facebook? >> it's a real nice picture. i mean, from a photography standpoint. >> shut up. i'm sure the good people would be happy to know you're using their hard-earned tax dollars suffering porno on the internet! get back to work! >> okay, i'm going to get back to watching tv. i watched "happy days" so i can't watch that. that's from "true blood." here is hbo's chris bower. a lot to ask you about. why was the butt on the picture? >> on that scene, i had just had a long date with my waitress girlfriend and her sons came in and surprised us. took a little picture of me naked. >> i hate when that happens. >> donny knows. >> this series is amazing.

what is our fascination with vampir vampires? and why do young women love vampires? i'm just fascinated by it. >> to be honest with you, i'm not sure if i wasn't on this show that i would watch it. because the vampire thing is a mystery to me. however, having been around them now for going on, you know, well into five seasons, they're really hot. you know what i mean? they never die. >> vampires are hot? >> no haircuts. yeah, vampires are hot. >> there is a sexuality with vampires that women are drawn to. it's fascinating. >> women are drawn to vampires sexually? >> have you seen the numbers that the "twilight" series does and this series does? yes. >> "true blood." i've heard a lot about this. tell us about your character but also what you did as the show

went on, because i understand that you were feeling a little pressure from the rest of the cast members and you lost some weight. >> yeah. it's self-induced peer pressure for sure. i'm sheriff andy beltzer, i'm the town cop. and over the years, one thing that's been really honed in me is how to stay on a show and not get killed. in this case, with this show i was getting a very strong signal that if i could at least get a two-pack, i was going to be maybe in the mix as long as possible. nobody ever said, you know, lose your chins, but i felt like i should. >> it wasn't like me in the news business. >> i have to say you were a lot scarei scarier in person. >> thank you. >> i get the popularity of vampires, but abraham lincoln is a vampire.

>> i know! >> vampire hunter, excuse me. are we jumping the vampire trough here? >> i think we might have stretched the metaphor, whatever it is, as far as it can be now and maybe we're slamming back together and vampires will be relevant. >> you know what it's really about, donny. >> yes. can i say it? women getting bitten on the neck. there's something very -- you're next. >> how are we progressing? are we at the two-pack to three-pack stage now? >> this is what i know for a fact. beneath a solid inch of fact is a six-pack, maybe eight. i just talk about, like, buying into it. i got the trainer. you know, i'm from new york, but we shoot this in l.a. so i just fell head first for that whole thing. the diet, the trainer -- yeah,

that's all fake. >> you're doing it all. >> egg whites and all that. >> have you noticed she's giddy? >> i'm not giddy. it's awkward. it's crazy. "true blood" looks cool. i'm going to watch it. this sunday at 9:00 p.m. on hbo. chris bauer, thank you so much. at the top of the hour, the battle of the bain. h keep it right here on "morning joe." [ kimi ] atti and i had always called oregon home.

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[ female announcer ] purina cat chow indoor. always there for you. trick question. i love everything about this country! including prilosec otc. you know one pill each morning treats your frequent heartburn so you can enjoy all this great land of ours has to offer like demolition derbies. and drive thru weddings. so if you're one of those people who gets heartburn and then treats day after day, block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place. [ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

it was about the right to vote, because when you have the right to vote, you have the right to change things! we see a future where those rights are expanded, not diminished. we' where racial profiling is a thing of the past! where access to the ballot is expanded and unencumbered. did you think we'd be fighting these battles again? >> no. >> the house of representatives republicans voted affirmatively to prevent the justice department from even

investigating whether or not there was voter suppression? folks, there's a lot more to say, but this is preaching to the choir. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 on the west coast. time to wake up, everybody. are we awake? because it's friday the 13th. terrible things are going to happen today. let's take a live look at new york city back with us on the set. we have john mecham, howard doich, jonathan mead, and michael feel. joe bid just minutes after mitt romney addressed the same audience, biden painted a clear picture of what the supreme court would

look like under a romney presidency. >> imagine what the romney injustice department will look like. imagine when his senior adviser is robert bourke. imagine, and this to me is one of the most critical issues in this election. imagine what the supreme court will look like after four years of a romney presidency. folks, this election, in my view, is a fight for the heart and soul of america. >> i liked watching your face as he spoke. >> listen, i love robert borg. he brings up robert borg. we're refighting the battles of 1987, 1963? john mecham, i'm curious.

historically a bit of an overreach here, or are we seeing everybody use this naacp convention to play to their base? >> precisely, i think that's right. and romney had sort of an ironic base playing to go there, sort of a step removed. but i think to my mind, the biden -- nobody is better right now in politics than biden at sort of playing this heavy more in sorrow than in anger, nobody is a better knights of columbus dinner speaker than biden. >> it's true, and this is why all this hockus srks pocus in washington. he's fantastic. and that was a great speech by joe biden. he raises all the issues.

after listening to him, i wouldn't be surprised, joe, if we did see connor on the ticket. he's still up for vice presidency, right? >> joe. >> i want to challenge one thing, howard. i agree. he certainly connects with the bait. he connects with african-american voters. he connects with white working class blue collar voters. we love joe. that's why we love joe. at the same time, a speech like this, though, often gets white working class voters rolling their eyes saying, come on, man, at joe biden. come on, man, this ain't 1963 and don't try to paint falsities. >> what they're doing with the voting suppression is really shocking. it really is shocking. 780,000 people will be ineligible to vote in pennsylvania as a result of what the pennsylvania republicans passed. this is not a joke for african-americans in this country when you start taking away their rights to vote, and that is where voter suppression is at.

it's aimed at hispanics and african-americans, principally. >> what was biden's explanation? >> i want to go to michael feel for a second here. michael, when you start hearing democrats talking about republicans trying to engage in voter suppression, of course, the idea that all americans present a photo id when they go in to vote to a process that has always scared the hell out of me, these hoards of voting when you see just anybody come in and say, yeah, that's me, and then they vote and show accord. you look at the statistics and they just don't bear out the democrats' facts. regarding, for instance, the voter id and showing a photo. the percentages are so small and yet you hear joe biden or howard bean talk, and this really is, quote, 1963 all over again. >> well, it is. you know, quite frankly, i'm sick of it. it's just a load of crap at this point. i'm so tired of this.

every election cycle, we're going to roll back the clock, republicans are going to turn back the clock. you look at the plight of the black community, it's not a question of rolling back the clock. the clock has stopped. this administration is faced with 14.4% unemployment within the black community, and it's not addressed effectively, it's not addressed, the recidivism rate. he's not addressed those things he talked about earlier in the administration he would handle or at least begin to address in the black community. so then to have joe biden roll up to the naacp, you're preaching to the choir, you're preaching the same old nonsense looking backwards. tell us how you're going to address the current problems that are affecting this community? don't worry so much about mitt romney. he had his moment, he took his lumps with that. now tell us, joe biden, barack obama, what does the black community look like four years from now if given another four years to address some of the very issues that you talk about

rolling back the clock on? for me it's just a bunch of noise, and i'm tired of hearing it. >> i want to get to dick cheney, but quickly donny and jonathan on this. donny? >> two questions. first of all, i find it fascinating that my good friend michael steele is talking about what the obama people are not talking about for the black community. i haven't heard them talk about the hispanic community, the black community or any other community. what was the obama campaign's explanation of why he was not at the naacp? >> the president of the united states, he's got a hell of a lot of things to do. >> there had to be something better than that? was it a calculated decision for the african-american president to not be speaking to that group? >> the impetus of your question is that the president has not ever spoken to the naacp and that's not the case. >> the day after romney does it to the american public, was it a

strategic decision to not be there? >> strategic in the sense that -- the role of the vice president is to go after the other guy who is at the top of the ticket. the role of the number two on the ticket is to go after the princip principal on the other side. you want joe biden to go to the naacp and give a speech to the base because he can say things the president cannot say and shouldn't say. it allows the president to still be safe in their light. >> he did do a taped message. >> that's right, he did do a taped message before joe biden spoke, so it's not like he wasn't there. if you look at the reaction of the naacp, they weren't upset to have him there. they loved having him there. in conclusion, they booed him because his speech was over. they wanted him to keep going. >> i'm sure he stayed for a long time. i'm going to move on to bain. this is another big story making a lot of waves this morning. mitt romney's campaign is

working to set off a wave of stories about his tenure at bain capital. the boston globe says he was still listed at the company three years after he was no longer involved. the globe found nine sec filings submitted by four different business entities after february 1999 that describe romney as bain capital's boss. some show him with managerial control over five bain capital entities that were formed in january 2002. romney has repeatedly said he was not responsible for bain's business dealings after 1999, and this is important because it goes on to say shouldn't be blamed for the firm's decision to close factories and move jobs overseas. his company pressed the globe for a retraction, calling the article, quote, not accurate. nevertheless, the president's reelection team is pouncing on the issue.

obama campaign manager stephanie cutter says when it comes to the most recent incident, the disparadi disparity in the dates may be a federal offense. >> either mitt romney, through his own words and his own signature, was misrepresenting his position at bain to the sec, which is a felony. or he was misrepresenting his position at bain to the american people to avoid responsibility for some of the consequences of his investments. and if that's the case, if he was lying to the american people, then that's a real character and trust issue. >> romney's campaign was outraged, responding, quote, president obama ought to apologize for the out-of-control behavior of his staff which demeans the office he holds. campaigns are supposed to be hard fought, but statements like those by stephanie cutter belittle the process and the

candidate on whose behalf she works. >> it sounds like a fascinating story. donny deutsch, i guess the question rising here, we don't know that much about it yet because there is going to be a lot more reporting on it, but this is a question on whether the guy is telling the truth or not. forget the legalities, forget the sec filings. this is a question about is he saying one thing to the public and doing another thing privately, and actually, i'm always knocking down a lot of stories about romney. this actually sounds like a fascinating story and a story that they need to knock down fairly quickly. >> yeah, joe, this has been a horrific, horrific week for romney. this and the offshore accounts go to is this a guy i can trust? we took a lot in the last few months as the bain capital attack, is it useful, is it smart, and it was the foundation for saying, hey, wait, he's a

rich guy, jfk was a rich guy, bloom be bloomberg was a rich guy, but this is a shady guy who has offshore accounts, and i have to tell you, this is devastating stuff. this has been a tremendously, tremendously bad week for romney. >> john meacham? >> one interesting thing this morning for true inside baseball is the story about bain around 8:13 of the times. the boston globe helped break it, so there's always that. but michael steele, if you were in the romney campaign this morning, how would you be feeling? >> a little bit concerned, because i think to both donny's point and joe's question about the interesting nature of this story, you don't want a story like this to be interesting. you want this story to go away.

and they've not done a good job of getting this gone. and the reality of it is, and it's a very fact-based question. you were either there or you weren't. you fought a piece of paper that said you weren't, but there is a piece of paper that said you were, so there is a very fact-based analysis here the reporter can't cover, and it's a fact until they get in front of it and they're not in front of it yet. >> i'm going to say something. rick perry prophetic. he criticized mitt romney at n ara bain capital during the primary. >> there is a difference between venture capitalism and as a rvu capitalism. the fact is, he'll have to face up to this at one time or another. >> this goes to a question i

wanted to ask anyone around the table. why hasn't mitt romney gotten an answer ready for this question, for the tax returns question? it's not like he didn't know this was going to come up. >> this is his achilles heel, and there is no answer to the tax return question. if you look at the tax return, there is going to be cayman island investments, there is going to be a swiss bank account. this goes to why you do or do not vote for somebody. what joe is talking about is right. this is a factual problem, and michael steele, he has a paper at the sec that says in 2002 he was chief executive officer of bain capital. my understanding of the chief executive officers, that's who runs the company, and he's denying he ran the company. it's almost impossible to sell this if you're mitt romney. >> almost impossible to sell this. let's ask joe, and joe, you take

it to the panel. how do you handle this? isn't he going to have to? >> he's going to have to explain any documents that he had any control of that suggests that he was a ceo of bain capital. it's that simple, and if he's not telling the truth or if he can't explain the sec filings. he said four entities. who are those four entities? how much control did he have over those entities? did those entities put mitt romney at the top? i find it hard to believe they would, but those are the questions that if i, as a republican, that look at stories broken against republican candidates with great skepticism during an election year, look at this and go, huh. i wonder what that's about. that's the problem. i also, though, really quickly, one other thing, i want to under line what howard dean says. the achilles heel of mitt romney is the release of his past tax

returns because maybe the cayman islands, maybe the swiss bank account, i think more to the point there may be a few years back there where mitt romney, the guy worth 300 million, 400 million paid nothing in taxes. i think that's what they're really afraid of over the long run. >> i would love to ask everybody around the table a very simple, human gut question. forget republican/democrat, forget conservative liberal. as a human being, i think as humans we vote for another human being. when you hear all this stuff at the end of the day, do you really feel this guy is an absolute straight shooter? and you just don't in your gut. you don't feel it. michael, we're human. forget republicans. i know a lot of rich guys. you just feel something here, and i think the american voters feel this. there's no answer for it. >> coming up, nearly 20 years after leaving the white house, historians increasingly praised

the president george h.w. bush. we're going to get an inside preview of parade magazine's inside interview of bush and his first lady, his accomplishments and the current state of politics. our next guest says increasing in creativity is a way of revitalizing some of the america's struggling cities. richard florida talks about the economy and his list of the top cities in the u.s. and abroad. but first, phil with the forecast. phil? >> another summer day rolling in. before we get there, down along the texas coast, along with louisiana, the beaumont area to port arthur, flash flood warnings. we people trapped in their homes. they've had thunderstorms sitting over the top of them for the last three hours, and it's just not moving. the west coast actually dealing with a little bit of rain this morning, too. we don't get a lot of that, but from phoenix to tucson, north

carolina had rain early today. we have afternoon thunderstorms in the southeast. now let me take you to your weekend forecast. notice, it's pretty warm everywhere. typical for the middle of summer. i don't think there's going to be too many washouts. most of the storms will be in and out in half an hour. it's not going to change any of your beach or lake plans. same goes for sunday, although we could see some of those stronger storms around new york city on sunday. notice we're not seeing extreme temperatures out there. no tornadoes in the forecast, either, so it looks like a pretty nice summer weekend. we leave you with a shot of an area that doesn't usually see a lot of rain. there is some showers in the vicinity. that makes for a messy, messy morning commute. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbuck's. ♪ [ acoustic guitar: upbeat ]

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, senior editor of the atlantic, richard florida. he's the author of "the rise of the creative class" now in its 10th anniversary edition. michael steele, by the way, still with us from washington as well. all right. very good to have you on the show. >> thank you. it's great to be with you guys. >> give us a sense of "the rise in the creative class" and some of the challenges we face trying to break through. >> it's been a great ten-year run not just for "the rise in the creative class" but for cities. when i first started, it was

obvious that young people and gay people would be the key to the cities, but 50% of the city's population now live in cities, and congress knows and policymakers know if we want to grow the economy, we have to invest in technology, we have to invest in our cities, and mayors across the country are getting it, too. >> let's go to the top creative cities, starting at number one. boulder. boulder, colorado. >> it's interesting. natural resource towns have done well in the crisis, but college towns have just been kicking it, you know? and not just boulder. you look at the top towns, it's san francisco, it's seattle, it's boston, but boulder is the corvalis, and what was very positive for me. my wife is from detroit. we just did a video series on rebuilding detroit to see anne arbor tie for fourth shows that it is possible to rebuild, and i

think that's good news. >> very nice. go ahead, john. >> what goes into making boulder number one, san francisco number two. as a diehard new yorker, i'm surprised new york isn't on there because new york thinks they're the most creative people in the world. >> new york is great. it is the greatest global city in the world, and the mayor here, the city has really turned around. i grew up in newark so i've watched this city turn around in the past 40 or 50 years or so. what goes into it, we rate cities on three t's. technology, are you a great technology leader? talent? do you have the skills, the capability, the human capital. then the third one, which sometimes gets controversial, are you a tolerant place that's open to everyone, where women and men, gay and straight, all ethnicities and nationalities, we need to keep this country open to immigration. 50% of those silicon valley businesses were started by a

foreign born person. that's what really powers economic growth. those are the three t's. first, joe, jump in. i think i know what you're going to say. >> of course. you know what i'm going to say. where is tuscaloosa, alabama, but most importantly, i don't see pensacola, i don't see fort walton, i don't see panama city beach, not the redneck riviera. >> mcclain. >> mcclain, come on. it looks like a town where a bunch of hip peas hang out and smoke pot or something. >> you sound the way colbert drilled me one day. it's great to see you, joe, and you know i visited pensacola a number of times and worked with them on making their city and helping their institute and everything they're doing down there. and they're doing good. florida is better. i spend the winter in miami, but it's got toin ve invest a little in that technology, it's got to

bring skills. huntsville does great. it may not be tuskarawas loocal it's doing great at growing its economy. >> we have a chance to grow in the next 20, 30, 40 years. if we crack the code on an energy source that's cheap enough and economical enough that we can produce it on scale and run the economy, you will see smaller college towns just like richard is talking about absolutely explode. instead of some oil taxes in sau saudi arabia or some natural gas fields in pennsylvania, you will actually have smaller college towns across america research way patent, with money, flood in from all across the world. >> michael steele wants to jump

into the conversation. michael? >> i do. i found this work very interesting, and my question really goes to do you see this whole idea as being creative as elitist? and even from that, how about genderfication? does this connote some kind of genderfication? when i look at my hometown of d.c. which was once mocha city is now cafe ole. how do they fit into this creative process? >> there's been great debate on this. first of all, i open the book by saying every single human being is creative and the key to turning this country around is to stoke that creative furnace in everyone. what makes america great is creativity doesn't come from the top. that's the biggest mistake. the smartest kids i ever met were back home in newark, new

jersey or arl other parts of ne jersey. obviously i was in d.c. for a long time. i'm a big fan of go-go. i love go-go music. one thing we've seen as people get priced out, the research suggests that even with gentrification, a teacher of mine said when a place gets too boring, even the rich people leave. >> i want to get to the cities abroad, but first, richard wolf. >> you still seem to value small towns, rural america. that's the iconography of campaigning is about. do you see national politicians talking about these urban issues

while on the creative side sore the perrenial inner city issues? >> no, the mayors get it. i write in the book -- it comes from my visit to pensacola. i sat at the table. people were talking about national politics and ripping each other's eyes out. >> exactly. >> the mayors were there. i couldn't tell who was a democrat and who was a republican. >> the mayor is pretty. i'm just telling you the mayor of pensacola is pretty. he's nice to look at in the mirror and he's got really white teeth. >> as joe knows, the key to huntsville, alabama is its proximity to swanee, tennessee. that's kind of the spillover effect. we had big news about san bernardino, a lot of bankruptcies. how are you feeling about the capacity of local leadership to handle crisis? >> the cities that didn't build on their creativity, that didn't build on their skills, that

thought they could build an economy of housing, flipping housing, it just didn't work. phoenix, san bernardino. i think local leadership in this country is pretty good, but there's still gaps. going back to the previous point, we need new policy. we tend to view our cities as basket cases that need help and they're poor. we need a policy that views the city, along with technology and innovation and education, our cities in urban areas, the drivers are frustrated. >> let's close on the top cities abroad. amsterdam, stockholm. i couldn't agree with you more. i was just there. amazing. helsinki, oxford. wow. >> i wrote this a long time ago in a washington monthly. the u.s. big competition isn't necessarily coming from china. that's from lower wage. the biggest city for talent is

coming from the torontos, the sydneys, the places in northern europe that are growing their creative economy that are wealthier. and calgary, talk bay place that's done oil and natural resources with educational skills, calgary is now the richest community in america. >> the book is "the rise of the creative class," richard florida. thanks so much. up next, how will history judge george h.w. bush? we'll have that question when we come back.

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america is never wholly herself unless she is engaged in highly moral principle. we as a people have such a purpose today. it is to make kinder the face of the nation and gentler the face of the world. my friends, we have work to do. >> that was president george h.w. bush in his inaugural address in january of 1989. and here with us now, editor in

chief of parade magazine, maggie murphy. the cover story of the new issue of parade entitled "family is what matters" is an exclusive conversation with former president george h.w. bush and mrs. bush, who really doesn't like to talk a lot, right? >> we ha to coax her into speaking. she was wonderful. president and mrs. bush consented to this interview based on growth. i asked him, what president is going to have his legacy refurbished just in the way johnson has? he said george h. walker bush, and i said, let's see if we can get him for an interview, and they sat down and it was wonderful. >> john meacham? >> what surprised you most when the interview came in? >> i think what surprised me was how much they interact as a couple, they're back and forth, there's a lot of kidding and joking. i think the president is as

humble as everyone says, and i think barbara is still there saying, you know, you're too humble. you should speak more. so i think their banter as a couple was really charming. >> that's nice. joe? >> john meacham, january 20, 1993, nobody could have looked forward to this day when perhaps the most beloved public figure. is george h.w. bush a one-term president whose legacy grows by the month? >> it does. >> why? >> i think because the things he did in realtime people see were, in fact, courageous and the right things to do. and the day he did the budget deal in 1990 that so many conservatives continue to be unhappy about, breaking his pledge in 1988, saying, read my

lips, no new taxes, and then ultimately he had to say, read my hips, i'm changing my view. he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. and if you read his diaries, you see that he knew in realtime that this could cost him the election. there are very few moments, as you know, in presidential history where someone made a career killing decision entirely based on principle and what he thought should happen. and, you know, as '91-'92 went on, he seemed out of touch and out of mainstream, but he was not, in fact. >> john, let me add to that, john. you talk about the domestic side of it, let's talk about foreign policy. germans still believe today that they were unified only because george h.w. bush handled the soviet union and the collapse of

the soviet block the way he did. he handled it with dignity and grace, and he didn't do victory laps in 1992 despite the fact that the soviet union had collapsed just the year before. he refused to take credit at all, and i know that had to be maddening. maggie, let me bring into it. his wife said he doesn't talk enough about himself. conservatives and republicans were saying the same thing in 1992. >> he's saying the same thing today. he says, i'm not going to retell history. history will get it right. this is a man with enormous dignity and grace. and i think his relationship with bill clinton that he speaks about in this as well, as fierce a rivalry as you could have in that campaign, and i think the friendship is bridged, and i think it's the man's character that has led people to speak about him with such reverence and respect. >> jonathan? >> talk a little bit more about

that fascinating relationship? what was it that brought those two together? is it the fact that they're in that very exclusive club, or was there something more to it than that? >> i do think the ex-presidents club which i know president clinton really loves that club, and i think president bush 41 is a man that really cultivates and gets people to really respect him, and i think there is a relationship, mrs. bush says, that she thinks president clinton looks upon president bush as a father figure. and he comes and he calls, and he comes up to the house and they speak for hours. i think the president respects -- president bush respects president clinton's ability to talk forever, as we well know. >> it's clear they talk for hours. >> and i would say that probably one of the great things about president bush is he seems to be a very good listener.

he's always -- >> well, that's a really important point. joe asked why this reversal of judgment, and dignity and grace are a huge part of it. george h.w. bush is not a perfect man, but there is kind of an innate recognition of his decency that's become more popular. >> absolutely. >> i love the quotes that the grandkids say and it's going to be a great read of him holding the pages of this magazine on sunday. michael steele, do you want to jump in? >> i do. you talk about the bushes and the bush family. you've got president 41, 43, jeff bush as governor of pennsylvania and probably candidates down the road. are the bushes closer to american dynasties than, say, the kennedys? both are new england families, long histories in this country, but when you look at the

dynamics of this family, how do you rate them? how do you see them over the longer course of history? that may be a question for john meacham as well. >> you know, it's interesting being in kennebunkport, being an irish catholic whose parents came here in 1958, contrasting the bushes, i think what's interesting when we talk to the grandchildren, how active they were, how respectful they were of their grandparents, how active they were in their lives. i think there is a family dynamic here that really generates -- is generational, and i think they're really able to convey what their family is about from generation to generation. >> joe? >> you know, john, back in the '90s and the first couple of years of this century, i spent a good bit of time with certainly jeb bush but also i was at campaign events with george w.

bush, i was at a panama city event where the father introduced john, i believe it was, and he was tearing up. you always hear the expression that character is what you're doing when nobody is looking. with the bushes, there was one particular ride, i think it was in panama city, but when the bush boys got in the back of the president's limo and they were talking, and every time -- you can't be alone with jeb bush for five minutes where he doesn't bring up the greatest man he's ever known. and then he starts talking about his dad. they would veer him away from the screen. they wou they revere him when nobody is looking, and what better judgment of a man that what his kids have to say about him when nobody is looking. >> that's absolutely true. in fact, the grandchildren do as well, and what's really interesting is barbara bush says that the family, because of the

political life, the family was drawn closer together. >> well, there are two things, joe. you're exactly right. one is he was -- president bush was known as half-half when he was a kid because he would always -- if he had a dessert, he would say have half with whoever he was with. and he always said his greatest achievement is his kids still come home. >> yeah. that's a big one. >> your piece says family matters, and that's a huge part. >> what was really interesting, the day we were arriving, the first great-grandchild was there, and that was the big event of the day, not parade. >> you can read the exclusive interview with president bush and mrs. bush in the sunday parade magazine. margaret murphy, thank you very much. coming up, new fallout this morning from j.p. morgan's trading blunber. business news with brian sullivan is next.

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47inutes past the hour. let's go to cnbc's brian sullivan. what's the lead story? jp morgan? >> yeah, here's the deal now. jp morgan coming out saying -- you know that loss? it's now been up to 4.4 billion and it could go up another 2.16 billion, but here's the news, jp morgan chase basically admitting that one or multiple people at the firm had essentially cooked the books. what they came out and said was they discovered material weakness and that apparently some people were not accurately reporting when recording their losses. in other words, they were fudging the numbers. could there be another black eye

for wall street, right? it's ridiculous. wall street needs to get its act cleaned up and change the bonus structure. it's really turning into a disgrace. >> brian, when you combine this with the stuff coming out of london, how banks were cooking the books there, do you think we'll have another round of regulatory issues on both sides of the atlantic? >> you know, i think they will. but here's how they can fix it. the way the bonus structure -- listen, i know the problem of people being paid if they make money, but here's the problem with the bonus structure. if you make a gigantic risky bet and it wins, you're going to get a lot of money and stock from the company. if you make a risky bet and you lose, the taxpayers pay in the form of a bailout. so why wouldn't you make -- and nobody ever goes to jail. why not make these gigantic bets, right? all you might lose is your job. you probably have enough money in the bank, anyway, to go live on a beach in spain. they need to stop these risky

bets. by the way, happy friday. >> right. happy friday the 13th. up next, the british parliament shows what we're missing out on in a big way. man: there's a cattle guard, take a right. do you have any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course.

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i'm murray morris. >> thank you, mr. speaker. this government has a great

record for legendary falls. the department is so pleased, you will vote for a further round of applications and the funding of the universities [ inaudible ] >> the piece of legislation we're dealing with, the house posted that last night just before midnight to meet their rules, and it includes the concentration conference and flood of insurance and student loans in one package. >> it is painful. it is painful. >> he's speaking to nobody.

over there, on the other side, you want that. we want politics, let's do it. >> whatever congressman scarborough thinks. >> up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? we'll be right back. i don't spend money on gasoline.

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it's time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> i learned that stockholm is not only a fascinating city to visit, it's one of the most creative in the world. >> israel. the lines between being an honest trader and making money, the line is thin. >> i learned that when mitt romney tells his bain capital story, he's got a serious problem. >> i learned that you have to make a physical loan. >> and michael steele in washington. >> i learned that the system here in the united states may not be that bad after all. that could be a lot of fun. >> no doubt about it. hey, guys, thanks so much for being with us today. we greatly appreciate you watching. >> it's time for "morning