as a result you are capitalism, no. >> it's the linchpin. >> i want us to make sure that we know what you're theory is about how to grow the economy. and that is a question that i think most americans want to know as well. >> not familiar with precisely exactly what i said but i stand by whatever i said, whatever it was. ♪ >> we begin on this friday the 13th with mitt romney forced out of hiding on the campaign trail. yes, with word this afternoon that mr. romney is sitting for interviews any minute back in new hampshire with all three major television networks, along with cnn and fox news to air later tonight. it was probably inevitable after more questions and concern continue to be raised about mr. romney and his much wanted private sector experience at

bain. >> mitt romney and the continuing questions over when he seeded control of bain capital. >> can you tell me why -- >> i'm a little surprised that he only released a year's worth of tax returns. that perplexed me because it's the first time in, i don't know, more than 30 years that anybody running for president has only done that. >> i think it is entirely appropriate to look at that record and see whether, in fact, his focus was creating jobs. when you look at the record, there are questions there. >> yes, mr. president, there are questions. for instance, if romney had no role at bain after 1999, why did he say in a june 2002 appearance before the massachusetts state law ballot commission that during his utah-based olympics service there were "a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to massachusetts. board meetings, thanksgiving and so forth."

>> board meetings, thanksgiving and so forth. one of the many questions raised. you see what i mean about the network interviews being inevitable? though the day began with mr. romney having no events and seeming to rely solely on his surrogates. the junior governor, bob mcdonnell, america's mayor, rudy giulia giuliani. marco rubio. paul ryan, congressional budget. all out there on behalf of the presumed republican nominee. yes, even his former presidential rivals are getting out there. tonight, rick perry will take his cowboy boots to nevada's silver state stampede to lasso romney supporters. let's hope he doesn't step in it and revert to his former talking points. >> they're just vultures. >> i have no doubt that mitt romney was worried about pink slips. whether he was going to have enough to hand out. >> waiting for the company to get sick. and then they swoop in -- >> they lost their jobs.

their health insurance. they lost their severance pay. >> they eat the carcass. they leave with that and they leave the skeleton. >> i'm telling you, it is scary out there with the bain battle, the tax thrashing. it's no wonder romney has been laying low until todayment he hasn't faced the public since making his phantom of the opera exit from the naacp earlier on wednesday. now, it seems he'll face the music and just like you, we cannot wait to see what comes out of it. let's bring in our panel in washington. msnbc analyst karen finney and michael crowley of "time" magazine. are you in new york, michael? >> no, i love new york. i wish i was. i'm in washington. >> i'm sorry. i thought so. thank you. karen, i'm getting visions of romney's boston headquarters looking like something out of a scooby doo episode. scrambling on friday the 13th to get away from the ghost of bain by suddenly scheduling five network interviews. is that about right? >> how about that.

you don't actually do five network interviews unless you know you're in real trouble. no doubt they have some internal numbers and some suspicion that is looking at the public polling that this -- these attacks and this line of questioning, frankly, is working and is really eroding both the confidence that people have in this campaign, not only in the trust in the candidate but in the campaign's ability to respond and deal with these kinds of questions, particularly given these are things that have been out there a long time. >> karen, you know that experience of responding. >> yes. >> michael, michael. he's doing these interviews, but mitt romney can say whatever he likes. it's his tax returns the people want to see. but is it possible that the reason for why romney was still listed as the 100% owner and shareholder of bain for three years from 1999, is that because, on the one hand he wanted public office but he also wanted a private equity income?

he wanted to have it all. and that's why this is what we see. >> i think it's possible. i mean, there's clearly a problem here. there is, at best, a gray area. i'm not sure it's quite as damning as the obama camp is saying. some argue that the language is boilerplate and not that significant. i think we need to learn more about the context. i do think that the picture that is emerging is that romney tried to have it -- you know, tried to paint the most favorable impression depending on which audience he was talking to. >> you almost said he tried have it both ways. that's what i'm putting to you. >> that may be true. but also that he kind of changed his emphasis depending who he's talking to. that's true of him throughout his political career. through of a lot of politicians. >> sure. >> so the story changes a little bit where the advantage lies. that's a character problem. >> karen? >> here's the thing, guys. at bare minimum, having worked in the private sector myself,

there's a little bit of having it both ways or hedging your bets, right? you're doing the olympics and thinking maybe afterwards i'm going to go back. i want to keep my foot in there. here's the problem. that is a set of rules that is only available to the 1% in this country. 99% of us, that's not how it works. we don't get to say i'm going to keep my job over here and this paycheck and get some money while i go over there and do this other project. that's not how it works for most people. even at the bare minimum, trying to explain this. this is something the romney campaign knows. it doesn't sound right to most americans. it's not the way most of us live our lives. >> but, karen, the irony here is that if romney had followed his hero's example, i'm talking about his father, george romney, and released 12 years of tax returns, all of this bain business, all of it, would have been cleared up, wouldn't it? >> absolutely. >> here's the problem. he appears to prefer secrecy. that's the absolute essence of what the issue is here.

>> that's -- >> it's secrecy rather than transparency. >> that's exactly right and it also suggests that the campaign at some point made a calculation that revealing what was in those documents could be more damaging than taking the hits for not revealing. which of course, all that does is make everybody continue to ask these questions. and it does -- the other big problem that these guys have and i'm sure on these interviews we're going to see later today, romney is going to try to seem like he's being very open and forthcoming. we'll see if he actually does it or not and gives any straight answers or not, but the problem is, this all also plays into a crave en politician, a narrative of someone who is for abortion, against abortion, he's for gay rights, against gay rights. a person that's been all over the spectrum in terms of the positions that he's taken, given where the political winds were going. that's the major problem for this guy. >> i want to put this to both of you. michael first. if you were granted this great opportunity to have an audience

with the great man, i would dearly love to do so, what questions would you ask him about this specific issue? michael? >> well, first of all, i want to say i agree with karen. i think releasing the tax returns, even if he did nothing wrong with bain, it opens an opportunity for so many questions. i'm sure his finances are incredibly complicated. it will invite hundreds of new questions. that's why he doesn't want to do it. to your specific question, martin, i would say that i would ask him what was his managerial involvement in the specific cases that the obama campaign has identified where companies that bain invested in sent jobs overseas or laid people off or saddled companies with debt and kind of threw them, as rick perry was saying, as carcasses on the side of the road. you would have a few specific companies and say what was your managerial involvement? did you have any input on the specific decision-making about the fate of those companies and those jobs? that's really what this is about. that's really what, you know,

the obama campaign is saying is significant here. what is his understanding of how you run companies, how you treat workers in america, what the values of bain were. and that really is the question mark we don't know right now. what was his -- apart from what's on a piece of paper, what was his day-to-day specific managerial involvement? >> absolutely. karen? >> i would ask him why it is he would invoke his father's legacy when it comes to speaking to the naacp and talking about his record on civil rights and following that example, yet, he won't follow his father's example when it comes to something so serious as transparency. >> michael, i want you to speculate with me for one moment again. >> sure. >> because romney didn't release a single tax return when he ran for governor in 2002. so i put it to you, do you think that when romney was reflecting on this election, he thought i'll just do exactly the same thing as i did last time because, remember, he won the

last time. he didn't give any information and he won. so did he go into this presidential election thinking, you know what, i did it last time, i'll do it again and i stand a good chance of winning this election? >> well, he may have. if he was delusional. the presidential stage is so different from even a high-profile statewide race in a big state. but i think he had to have advisers who were telling him that this wasn't going to happen. honestly, i don't know what his game plan for this is. he may have understood all along he had no good options. i do think karen put her finger on something. the fact that he's resistant to releasing returns, i don't think there's anything illegal, but i suspect the documents are massive, extremely complicated and open to unfavorable interpretations. as soon as they're out, there's a hundred new questions. we would rather take the hit on secrecy. >> there's another thing in here. remember the first time when he ran for the senate, he lost. why? because it was devastating.

his campaign made a strong point about this 1999 cutoff point because it's that post 1999 time frame when a lot of these activities and i'm sure when a lot of the taxes got very complicated with all these various holdings. then he runs for governor and doesn't release anything. again, i think they're -- they know that what is in there, even if it's legal to the letter of the law, it's just not -- it's not going to look good and not going to tell the story of a guy who was a job creator. it's going to tell the story of a guy who was a wealth creator. that's a big piece of it. in addition to that, the obama campaign is exactly right. it doesn't sound right to people that you would sign your name to an official document that goes to the s.e.c. -- >> doesn't sound right to me, karen. i'm sorry, it doesn't sound right to me. >> right. it doesn't sound right. >> in full knowledge and it lives for three years but you claim you've played no part even though you're 100% owner of the company. >> that's exactly -- the other thing in communications, having been through crisis communications a few times, you

know, it's the drip, drop pieces coming out that kills you. that's part of why, i think, again the romney campaign is trying to do these interviews to change gears here. because the -- just as i was coming on the air, buzz feed was reporting a story about new documents that say something else. another story about another guy who said yeah, while he was at the olympics, i reported directly to him. this is going to continue to drop out unless they can really get their arms around it. it's going to kill them. >> karen finney and michael crowley. fabulous, the pair of you. thank you so much. >> thank you. next, the president admits he's fallible and his critics pounce. stay with us. pu >> just in case your friends or neighbors and uncle jim who is a little stubborn and been watching fox news -- [ laughter ] >> he thinks that somehow i raise taxes, let's be clear. we've lowered taxes for middle class families since i came into office. [ applause ] matters. pioneers in outsourcing us jobs supports tax breaks overseas. insourcing. industry and favors bring jobs home. it matters. this message.

the president is taking a lot of heat from his opponent's campaign today. all because of something he said, which is ironic, i think. after all, when was the last time mitt romney said anything that's worth listening to? >> the mistake of my first couple of years was thinking that this job was just about getting the policy right. and that's important. but the nature of this office is also to tell a story to the

american people that gives them a sense of unity and purpose and optimism, especially during tough times. >> so here we have a moment of honesty and what happens? mitt's minions jump all over it like jackals. mr. romney is nowhere to be found. funny that. let's welcome the panel. msnbc joanne reid and melba of the nation magazine. thank you very much. joy, if i can -- sorry for calling you joanne. it's a bad habit. >> either one. >> thank you. what's horrible and horrific about that statement by the president? >> i'll be honest, you don't do that in politics. it is actually true. when you talk to the obama administration people, despite the fact that this guy is a terrific communicator, a great speech maker, they really thought they could do the policy and people would figure it out, understand the benefits of

health care reform. they would understand they had gotten a tax cut. the political way with a tax cut would have been the way george w. bush did. send you a check. then you know, i got a tax cut. they did it through the tax code, which is better economic policy because people tend to spend that then through to normal expenses. >> guess what? they didn't realize. >> they didn't pay attention to it. >>ary, i would like to show you the rest what the president said on this topic. take a listen to this. >> it's funny when i ran, everybody said, you can give a great speech, but can you actually manage the job? and then my first two years, i think the notion was, well, he's been juggling and managing a lot of stuff. but where is the story that tells us where he's going. >> ari, not being from this country, i'm having a hard time understanding what's so horrific about that. i thought having someone who is reflective, thoughtful and pensive is an asset for a

position like president. but clearly not. >> i think it is. partly, he has to give an answer that doesn't self-indict the core of his policies. there's that game asset. i think this is true. storytelling isn't just about quote-unquote narrative in politics. it can be about organizing also. he had an adviser, a guy named marshall ganz and labor organizing in the '60s and 70s. one of the things they do is you get people together in a room and talk about -- not talking about climate change or check the box, they want to know what brought you here and everybody remembers the president's union speech. of an older african-american man who said i'm here because of ashley. and ashley was that young woman who happened to be white, who happened to be an organizer. it wasn't about race or politics. it was about having a national purpose and unity.

i do think it's true. i spent a lot of time on the plane traveling with senator obama then and doing what the organizers were doing. i do think it's true both with that model and what the internet allows you to do, a type of storytelling and organizing that was amazing throughout that campaign and it got lost in the first two years. that's a transition from campaigner to commander in chief. >> let me give you an example of how another president responded to the question about whether he had made any mistakes himselfment take a listen to this. >> you know, i just -- i'm sure something will pop in my head here in this press conference and all the pressure trying to come up with an answer, but hasn't yet. >> you know, that is -- >> is that better? >> the inning is -- >> is that better? >> not the most self-aware chap that ever entered the oval office. the thing and the discussion we're having and ari is right. it was ironic and interesting

about barack obama, he's they good at telling the personal narrative, whether his own narrative and reflecting upon himself or getting at the narrative, what the american people are dealing with. that's why he wins on the poll questions, understands people like me. they are very wanty. once they got into the office, they forgot that's part of the job of president is the part -- >> can i jump in. i agree with that. one other point is part of the story of the last three years doesn't fit with what i think barack obama wants to be as president. i think he is actually still optimistic and so in to unity that the type of extremism that he has faced is a story he wanted to tell. that's something the base is frustrated with. the real story is 33 boats to re, re, repeal health care. taking the economy hostage, getting us downgraded for the first time. >> the american jobs act. not doing anything to create jobs on the part of congress. >> didn't anticipate that. >> that is just -- i'm just

speaking about the public evidence of the actions of congress. that doesn't even get us into the birthism and the ugly stuff going on. that's not a story that barack obama or his aides wanted to tell. it's a story we know. but also, again, a big part of some of the hold in this first term come from ugly things he doesn't want to focus on. >> joy reed, ari mel ber, thanks so much. why the conndi rice for vice president is silly at best. stay with us. ♪ i want to go ♪ i want to win [ breathes deeply ] ♪ this is where the dream begins ♪ ♪ i want to grow ♪ i want to try ♪ i can almost touch the sky [ male announcer ] even the planet has an olympic dream. dow is proud to support that dream by helping provide greener, more sustainable solutions from the olympic village to the stadium.

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you're slightly right. we expect the president to take the podium shortly, martin. tim kaine is going to talk and introduce the president. this is the president's second stop today here in this key battleground state of virginia. and we expect him to talk about one of the key issues he's been touting over the last two weeks, mainly pushing congress to extend the bush era tax cuts. he will also likely tailor some of his comments, martin, to the military community here. there is a large community in virginia. it is key to winning this state. an estimated 800,000 veterans live here. so they'll talk about the importance of putting veterans back to work and also taking care of the military community. i should tell you, martin, there's a little bit of a counter campaign going on here. earlier today, governor bob mcdonnell and scott walker held an event in which they essentially criticized president

obama for the sequester set to go into effect after the end of the year. as you remember, that sequester is to offset the debt ceiling and will cause deep cuts to defense spending. the white house, the obama team has pushed back and said, look, the president has proposed a number of alternatives to this sequester and by the way, it was passed by both houses of congress. so that has really been the big debate. i don't expect the president to address the sequester specifically. but that's sort of the backdrop to his visit here. martin? >> kristen welker, thank you. stay with us. we'll be back to you as the president speaks. you stay with us, too. the week's top lines are coming up. ♪ hello...rings ♪ what the... what the... what the... ♪ are you seein' this? ♪ ♪ uh-huh... uh-huh... uh-huh... ♪ ♪ it kinda makes me miss the days when we ♪ ♪ used to rock the microphone ♪ back when our credit score couldn't get us a micro-loan ♪ ♪ so light it up! ♪ even better than we did before ♪

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better than a movie. >> a big round of applause. [ applause ] >> we are so -- we've got your second congressional district candidate, paul her tell. we go to down state illinois, small farm towns and sometimes in the big cities, like chicago. so we're truly blessed. >> i can't wait for the debates. >> if that's his main calling card, mr. fix-it on the economy. >> to go face to face with the president. >> if you're the head of a large equity firm, your job is to make money. >> talks about the nail lady. >> storming the beach chanting mitt romney has a clothes problem. >> his monday si vacationing in switzerland and the caymans and bermuda. >> how many of you have a swiss bank account sm. >> if you're responding, you're losing. >> the hard truth tonight, billy. >> that's been true of mr. romney -- >> i'm surprised he only released a year's worth of tax returns.

>> making a lie of like father, like son. >> i don't think it amounts to diddley. >> a half million dollars that the government knows about. >> held by a blind trust. >> make money, money ♪ >> go for the classics. >> the blind trust is an age-old ruse if you will. >> all the taxes are paid as appropriate. >> he wants you to show your papers. but he won't show us his. >> you want a president who will make things better in the african-american community, you are looking at him. >> take a look at me now. ♪ >> take a look. >> you take a look because i can't. >> martin, get ahold of yourself now. >> get rid of every nonessential expense, including obama care. >> expected that, of course. >> squirrel, squirrel. >> the mistake of my first -- >> wish i had this written question ahead of time. >> thinking that this job was just about getting the policy right. >> i'm sure something will pop in my head. >> what -- >> why? why? >> i want john boehner and mitch

mcconnell to come on your show sometime. why? why? >> choosing as a running mate. >> i can't tell you about the vp, if i did i'd have to come after you with my men in black flashlight. >> i've been listening to allen west talk. >> condoleeza rice would be a wonderful vice president. one website puts it up, we go absolutely nuts. >> let's get right to our ponl. steve kornacki and krystal ball. one half of the brilliant msnbc show, the cycle. and the chief investigative reporter. krystal, the media has actually gone nuts over condoleeza rice. the source is matt drudge. his sources we don't know. but it's probably not condoleeza rice. take a listen. >> it's not for me. i love policy, i love public service.

i'm saying there's no way that i will do this because it's really not me. >> you're not interested. >> that's right. that's right. how many ways can i say it? not me. >> are we really to believe that mitt romney would want a pro-choice vp like condoleeza rice? >> i think that's more of the problem. i mean, everybody says they don't want it. she seems particularly emphatic, i will say. but mitt romney is a guy who is so worried about turning off his base that he can't move away from immigration policy of self-deportation. is he going to have the courage to pick a pro-choice candidate as a vp when, say, for example, john mccain who wanted to pick joe lieberman didn't ultimately do it because lieberman was pro-choice. i don't think there's anyway. >> okay. ken, mitt isn't picking her any more than he's picking chris christie. this is a smoke screen and as you know, the bain attacks have hit and hurt him badly.

how about we throw out some talk about a vice president. distract attention. >> if that was the intended effect to some extent it has been successful. you're right in looking at the sourcing of this. the drudge report. the romney campaign does have kind of a pathway, direct pathway to the drudge report through matt rowe the top official in the campaign who had a relationship with drudge back when he was the research director to theroom national committee and went down to miami and introduced himself and established this relationship and the drudge report, which is very influential in driving the media cycle, not just the conservative media, has taken a rather favorable approach towards mitt romney from through the republican primary until today. so in this case, the drudge report floating ms. condi, vp rumor did a great service to the romney campaign. >> steve, you were reminding me that during the primaries, the drudge report poured endless buckets of excrement all over

newt gingrich. >> drudge drives not just does he drive media coverage, but he really drives conservative media coverage. you're talking about a republican primary, what's being said on talk radio, conservative blogs, it's particularly important. there was that moment after south carolina when newt gingrich won and he won big and there was that scare. you know, in the romney campaign. it was getting away from us. there was a week there where matt drudge took every bit of basically opposition research that the romney campaign had and it was above the fold in the page, gingrich did this, gingrich did that. this is has been for 2012 and 2008. his republican opponents, mitt romney's republican opponents complained about this preferential treatment. now that romney is the nominee, it's extending over to the general election. >> let's not forget, part of why gingrich won that primary, he had successful attacks on bain capital. there's a parallel there as well. >> i was listening, krystal, to vice president joe biden's speech yesterday. i noticed some words that he

delivered. he talked about character, he talked about convictions and he talked about values. and it felt to me -- i could be wrong. but it felt to me that it was an indirect but not so subtle way of attacking mitt romney and bain capital. >> joe biden has a way of doing that. that is the essential issue. most voters won't remember the ins and outs of '99 or 2001 and the s.e.c. filings. but they get the sense this guy is not being straight with us. he doesn't say what he means -- that's where the problem comes in for the average voter. >> ken, how do you think mitt romney is going to fare when he sits down with nbc, abc, cbs, c thi cnn, all three letter words? do you think hopeful that he can say, look, i did all the networks, i've addressed the issue, even though he might not say anything about the issue? >> well, it's certainly going to be tough for him. there's a lot of pent up questions, particularly about bain capital.

>> here's the problem, ken. i'm hearing that he's going to give each of the networks about six or seven maybe ten minutes each. isn't that a perfectly controlled media event. this man is not sitting down with us, krystal or steve for an hour. he's going to say i've run out of time. next network. as soon as things get difficult. this is a bit of a joke, isn't it? >> i don't know. i think it's going to be a challenge for the media networks, certainly to be able to make the most out of that time. but i think in that time there's a lot of opportunity for some tough questions and some tough questions that mitt romney has had trouble answering. and so it's much anticipated for a reason. >> final question. what do you think? how do you think he's going to fare today? >> there's been new developments in the story and the course of the day. i was seeing before that the same progress has a press release from bain from 1999 which is basically the start of his leave of absence in which they were characterizing as a part-time leave of absence from bain in which he would continue to play an advisory role on investment.

so again, his story on this really evolved. now you have a document and you can point to questions. >> in previous media interviews serving as any guide, he gets prickly and defensive any time he's challenged. i wouldn't be surprised to see some of that. >> indeed. ken vogel, krystal ball, steve kornacki. delay your weekends more. coming up on "hardball," that's just ahead at 5:00. stay with us. much more ahead here. i don't spend money on gasoline.

i don't have to use gas. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. drive around town all the time doing errands and never ever have to fill up gas in the city. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. the last time i went to the gas station must have been about three months ago. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. ♪ the president will be speaking at any moment in hampton, vairginia. that is tim kaine speaking. speaking with me are steve kornacki and krystal ball. virginia is your home state. you ran for a seat in virginia. >> i did. >> how or what does it take in

that state given that it's so close for the president to take it and win it? >> the most important thing is going to be the northern virginia suburb. not the immediately d.c. surrounding areas, but fairfax, loud down, suburban professionals. it will be interesting. in 2010 when i ran, not the best timing, there was a real republican landslide and it went heavily republican. since then, the president has been pulling very well in the state and observed consistently up in the polls. interestingly, the main attract that george allen has been making on tim kaine, the senate candidates there, is that kaine is too close to obama. and it's interesting because, actually obama is outpolling tim kaine even though that's the substance of their attack. >> right. >> but it's a very close race there in terms of the senate. and tim kaine is speaking at the rally right now. it's really a fantastic candidate. also a really good man and smart campaigner. >> there's a lot of problem in

swing states like virginia or ohio. unemployment is actually going down. so the narrative that mitt romney is trying to play every day about this president destroying your economy doesn't resonate if unemployment is going down and people do begin to feel better. >> there's something to that, oh, there's something about bad economic news nationally bleeding across state lines. there was a political science study that looked into this. i think it's relevant here. they said the effects of state level unemployment news is about 1/5 of the effect as national unemployment news. there is a benefit there, obviously, to obama if you look at ohio or iowa or virginia or states that it's lower than national average. but it's not as significant as if the national unemployment rate were to suddenly drop half a point between now and november. that would have a bigger effect. >> steve kornacki and krystal ball. thank you both. don't forget to catch steve and krystal's show, the cycle, weekdays at 3:00 p.m. every day on msnbc.

next, bankers gone wild. what a surprise. stay with us.

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you could call it coincidence or poetic justice as the two-year anniversary of the dodd/frank financial regulatory law approaches, we find the big banks once again defending corrupt practices, billions of dollars in losses and in the case of wells fargo, a $175 million settlement for discriminating against black and latino home buyers. what makes it all the more incredible is the idea that mitt romney and republicans in congress want to repeal dodd/frank and leave these banks to their own devices. congressman john yammish, a democrat from kentucky. congressman, good afternoon. do i have this right? almost every day we hear about another bank that's exposed as being involved in illicit activities from barclays rigging interest rates to jpmorgan chase today saying their losses are going to top $7 billion and yet, republicans say, if i get this

right, no more regulation? >> well, you know, there's this kind of narrative that we almost half joke about that the republicans want to basically run the economy into the ditch to prove that government is ineffective and it looks like now they just want to get government out the of way and make things worse again. four years ago we had this incredible discussion about two big to fail, how the banks were too big to fail. things were not transparent and the public had no idea what they were investing in and so forth. that was the whole basis for dodd/frank. now, when there are fewer banks, they are larger, they're even too much bigger -- too much big other to fail and engaged in the same activity to a much greater extent and now we want to do away with the cops on the beat, take the referees off the field. it makes absolutely no sense. but, again, this is part of the ideology that we have in washington now that we'd rather have no regulation, it doesn't matter what we do, just let

corporations run wild and things will get better. of course, we're seeing, again, as you mention day after day, they're not getting better at all. >> the british are coming down hard on barclays for rigging the libor rates. what are the regulators going to do if or when the u.s. banks end up implicated in this scandal? what happens then? >> well, it's going to be interesting. again, with no referee on the field right now, that's problematic. i was in a meeting with fed chair bernanke the other day and they're working very hard to try and get, for instance, a change in the way they set interest rates, standards where it's more of an actual market-based assessment of what rates are than letting the banks just talk about loans that they're never going to make, which is what the libor situation was. but, again, unless the cftc, the commodities futures trading commission, can actually set rules that relate to the trading of derivatives that there's a essentially a public platform for people to understand what

these rates are and what the prices are and what these banks are engaged in, then there's not going to be anyway to head off an impending disaster and you know, we basically, again, don't care whether banks, when they gamble their own money, if they fail by themselves. but the nature of the financial world is that things are so en twined that they would bring down the entire system. >> the economy last time. >> exactly. >> republicans repeatedly blame individuals for being greedy. for borrowing loans they couldn't afford. yet. >> what do we find with the wells fargo scandal. but it was the institution itself that was cheating black and latino borrowers as a matter of course. now, when are the institutions going to be chastised for their ab jekt disregard for the law in the same way that individual people are repeatedly by republican politicians, accusing people of being greedy. these are the institution, yet

they get to walk free, no one complains about them. >> exactly right. they think the fines of $170 million, just a cost of doing business. it's going to require prosecutions. we absolutely have to have that. you know, there was a survey not too long ago that they surveyed wall street employees and 25% of them thought that it was necessary to cheat in order to succeed on wall street. that's an incredibly -- incredible indictment of the culture there. so our prosecutors have to get vigilant, our s.e.c. and our banking regulators have to be willing to step up and take individuals to court and prosecute them for malfeasance because the stakes are too high and they're not playing their own poker game. they're playing with everybody else's money. >> does it not astonish you, finally, that a presidential candidate has as his major theme no regulation, cut regulation? given what happened four years ago and if you can be brief,

sir. do you not find that astonishing? >> it is absolutely mind-boggling. it's basically being totally insensitive to what's going on in the world around him. and if you're trying to become the leader of the largest economy and the most powerful nation in the free world, you better have some basic understanding of what's happening in that world. he doesn't seem to. >> congressman john i can't remember moout of kentucky. thank you for joining us, sir. >> thank you. we'll be right back. [ mrs. hutchison ] friday night has always been all fun and games here at the hutchison household. but one dark stormy evening... there were two things i could tell: she needed a good meal and a good family. so we gave her what our other cats love, purina cat chow complete. it's the best because it has something for all of our cats! and after a couple of weeks she was healthy, happy,

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election. but it's time now to clear the air. i take great interest in reading about the political history of this great country. as you might expect, there's a good deal that i've got to learn. for instance, when was the last time we saw a really brazen act of race baiting in a u.s. presidential election? the obvious answer, even for an office such as myself, in 1988, the gold standard i i guess of repugnant race baiting. the willie horton ad didn't come from an actual candidate and george hw bush had complete deniability. not so with the great ronald reagan. in 1980, the gipper was campaigning for president in philadelphia, mississippi, the same town where three civil rights workers were murdered less than 20 years earlier. reagan made a spirited case for state's rights to the good people of philadelphia, which struck some folks as a little unseemly given that the murderers were in a way making

exactly the same case. anyway, that's the most recent example that i could find of anything that matched mitt romney's stunt in houston this week. and stunt it was. because when mr. romney marched into the annual meeting of the naacp, he was about to perform a concede that he must have been working on for weeks. he knew full well that more than 96% of those present were unlikely to vote for him. he knew full well, that referring to the president's reform of health care as obama care repeatedly would be insulting to the audience. but that was his point. >> if you want a president who will make things better in the african-american community, you are looking at him. you take a look. >> you see, by provoking the audience -- and you heard the boos -- mitt romney wasn't doing anything brave. he was performing a carefully

choreographed dance of race baiting. and how do we know this? because later on that very same day at a fundraiser in montana, romney gave the lie away when he said this. "when i mentioned i am going to get rid of obama care, they weren't happy. but i hope people understand this, your friends who like obama care, you remind them of this. if they want more stuff from government, tell them to go vote for the other guy. more free stuff." >> in other words, what mr. romney was really saying is this. i tried to reason with them. i really did. but you know, all they want is another free lunch. over the last few months, we've come to learn that mitt romney has a problem telling the truth. that he's been a highly secretive presidential candidate. that he doesn't have a