bain, bain, go away. let's play some "hardball." good evening, i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia for chris matthews. leading off tonight, when you're explaining, you're losing. right now, mitt romney is explaining. did he really leave bain in 1999? why does his name appear on bain documents subsequent to that? and why does it matter? because accurate or not, the bain mess casts doubt on romney's principle argument that it's his business experience that most qualifies him to be

president. the obama campaign has dented romney's strength. karl rove couldn't have done a better job. perhaps it was because the romney camp was so eager to change that subject that they let slip to drudge that condoleeza rice emerged as a top vp pick. there are lots of reasons to believe this is nothing more than a shiny bright object to take our attention off of bain. but she would probably help romney plug a number of holes. plus, president obama says his biggest mistake is putting policy over storytelling. i talked about that two nights ago here. why doesn't the president do a better job of telling people what he's accomplished. and what happens to penn state in the wake of the sandusky report? will it be given the ncaa's death penalty? a ban from playing football for at least a year. finally, courtesy of "the huffington post," politicians who look like disney characters. take ron paul. does he remind you of anyone? how about claude from the hunchback of notre dame? how great is that? much more where that came from on the sideshow.

we begin with mitt romney's record at bain. msnbc political analyst david corn is washington bureau chief of mother jones magazine and the author of showdown. rick tyler was a spokesman for newt gingrich and the pro-gingrich super pac winning our future gentlemen, new details about romney's role at bain, post 1999 continue to drip out today. various news organizations reported according to the testimony that he gave to the massachusetts ballot commission in 2002, romney continued to attend board meetings for businesses acquired by bain, including staples. this comes after reports from david corn in mother jones and yesterday the boston globe showed that romney was still the ceo of bain through 2002 according to s.e.c. filings. now why is this important? well, it was beginning in 1999 that bain invested heavily in companies that were pioneers of outsourcing, according to "the washington post." there's evidence that romney's standing has taken a hit recently. take a look at the latest real clear politics average of polls.

obama has a 2.5 lead over romney now. and today the romney campaign hastily arranged interviews with all the major networks. late this afternoon, romney talked to nbc's peter alexander. >> the president's campaign has been, i think, outrageous in mark making the kinds of charges they have. the attacks are beneath the dignity of the presidency. >> i want to clarify this. after february 1999 you never attended a single 3450e9ing for bain, a business meeting, even by phone attended a meeting regarding bain or bain-controlled entities? >> you have asked quite a few questions there. so let's go through. i didn't involve myself in any way with bain capital's enterprise after february of 1999. >> not participating in a single meeting either in person or by phone? >> i don't recall a single meeting or single participation in a investment decision by bain or personnel decision. >> rick, your campaign, newt gingrich brought this up in primary season and he was criticized.

gingrich was. maybe romney would have been better served if this was fully litigated in the primaries, and not the general election. >> i think that's probably right. it was not fully litigated. in fact it wasn't really fully understood. i give the romney campaign an enormous amount of credit. they won the argument and basically said by attacking mitt romney we are attacking free enterprise. that certainly was never true but that was the dominant narrative and it won the day. but there's still those same questions that are out there, and obviously, this -- these questions have taken romney off his message, which is jobs and barack obama's economy. barack obama's story is we are stuck at 8.2%. there's a $15 trillion debt and just today he -- the hss is reversing welfare reform, which was the signature achievement of my boss newt gingrich and bill clinton. >> david corn, you have been all over this story. explain to someone who has been half paying attention the significance of the 1999 versus 2002.

>> in some ways it is a phony distinction. but in some ways it isn't. that's why we're litigating and fighting over it. after '99 bain made some investments in certain companies that were involved in outsourcing jobs to china, india, and mexico. and so mitt romney is trying to basically claim that he wasn't involved in those sort of decisions. even though he still owned the company, even though he still benefited from that company, and even though he put the company on that path, he's trying to separate himself from those particular deals and there were some bankruptcies, too, in companies that happened after that stage. that's why he's trying to make february 1999 this bright line. but i had a story out just yesterday, michael, that had bain in '98 when romney was the head of it investing in a chinese manufacturing company that was making money off u.s. companies outsourcing jobs to them. so even prior to this '99 bright line, there are lots of problems

at bain and lots of problems with his own personal finances with offshore companies. it's turning into a big mess and i think that's why we are not going to see much in terms of tax returns because i can tell you this. i'm getting stuff in all over, tips here and there, there's a wealth, pun intended, a wealth of material to keep looking at in terms of bain deals and romney's personal finances and there are questions whether he didn't tell the whole truth on maybe the disclosure forms he has filled out. >> gentlemen, on cbs this morning president obama said a tax on romney's record at bain were entirely appropriate. here's what he said in part. >> i do not think at all it disqualifies him, but i also think it's important, if that's his main calling card, if his basic premise is that i'm mr. fix-it on the economy, because i made a lot of money, i think it is entirely appropriate to look at that record, and so whether, in fact, his focus was

creating jobs. and he successfully did that and when you look at the record there are questions there. >> rick, do you think that this is all opposition research oriented? that it's coming from chicago. that the obama campaign has been sitting on these things for quite some time. asked in a different manner, had your candidate newt gingrich continued down the path he was headed in the primary, that you too, would have gotten here. >> we lost the argument about attacking free enterprise. but these things were known back in january 15th. i went on one of the sunday shows and talked about the s.e.c. filings and the inconsistencies then. it seems a lot to do about nothing then. this may seem to be a lot to do about nothing now. but let's just talk pure poli c politics here. what the president is successfully doing is he does not want to talk about his record. he doesn't have a record to run on. so they are going with this

thing with bain that has the media's attention and they are going with that. the problem with the media, romney is coming out at 6:00 tonight to address this. i hope he does to put this behind him. ultimately the voters will have to decide whether this is a lot to do about nothing or whether it means something. but i think if mitt romney gets this behind him he can then shift back to the president's dismal record on the economy and jobs. >> michael, i can tell you -- >> the reality is as you're pointing out, the president got a terrible jobs report recently and we have not spent the last ten days focused on that. the narrative has been driven by the bain issue. let me show david corn something. yesterday a romney campaign adviser gave this explanation to politico for what his boss' role at bain was between 1999 and 2002. quote, romney was on the s.e.c. filings because he was still technically the owner but hadn't transferred ownership to other partners. he described him as technically the owner. one of the boston globe reporters who worked on the story yesterday explained the

contradiction between what the romney camp is saying, and what the reporting by a number of outlets has uncovered. here it is. >> the globe and other reporting is not saying he was in the board room on a daily basis at bain, calling the shots. but certainly that his records show that he was in charge, he had legal responsibility. he was the man with oversight responsibility for the company. how can you retire from a company in 1999 but then remain as president, ceo and chairman? so i think that's one of the discrepancies we are reporting and that's really the crux of our story and the romney people as they did ask for a correction, they're not getting one because they haven't been able to show that any of our reporting was inaccurate. >> david, is an explanation here on behalf of governor romney that he had to go solve a crisis, that it was unexpected, unforeseen he would have to go and invest himself, probably a bad word choice, but get active in the olympics, when they were in distress? and therefore some details like this became secondary.

>> well, you know, he has the option of saying, i departed, it was chaotic and it took us two, three years to sort things out. but that's not what he's saying. he's saying that he had nothing to do when -- i was the first to report that he signed documents, he signedthem. it wasn't just that his name was there, he signed documents that enabled a $75 million deal to go through. this is months after he supposedly left the company. he declared on his financial disclosure form, i'll have a story about this in an hour or so and i'll put the link on my twitter feed, but he signed a financial disclosure statement saying that in no way, not in any way was he involved in bain operations after february 1999. but there are these examples again and again of him signing records. now that's being involved. i'm not saying he's running things day to day as "the boston globe" guy said, but he was involved. the big thing again is he's not going to be able to put this behind him. my story yesterday about his

chinese deal, investing in a chinese company that's benefiting from u.s. sourcing, they are going to be lots of deals that are going to be investigated. i've got to tell you, mike, a lot of this is not coming from chicago. i got that story over the transom from somebody who was interested in looking at s.e.c. filings about mitt romney and i developed it my 168. so the obama campaign certainly wants to gym this up, but you can keep 100 reporters busy from now until election day just going over mitt romney's financial records and bain deals. and i think rick is right and newt gingrich was right back then. there's a tremendous liability for the republican party here that was never fully explored back when they had a chance. >> thank you rick tyler. thank you, david corn. coming up, condoleezza rice for vice president? there's a lot of buzz that romney is considering rice, but is the romney campaign just looking to change the subject away from bain? that's ahead. this is "hardball." the place for politics. ovider it but centurylink is committed

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welcome back to "hardball." the drudge report had an eyebrow raising headline last night. the conservative website known to have close ties to the romney campaign reported that a surprise veep choice had emerged as a front-runner. former secretary of state condoleeza rice. a few weeks ago, rice delivered a rousing speech at a gathering of big money donors that was greeted very enthusiastically by people in the audience. but she carries a truckload of political risks. most significant is her time in the bush white house and some of her views on social issues that don't jive with the conservative base of the republican party. for exam, she's pro-choice. still the fact that this is coming out now, and the fact that it's coming from drudge has led many to wonder what's going on here exactly?

malika henderson is a political reporter for "the washington post." robert costa is a political reporter for the national review. malika, let me start with you. is this a diversion to take attention away from bain where that issue appears to have gathered traction in the last couple of weeks? >> it's certainly turned out to be that way. here we are talking about this story that the romney campaign pretty easily knocked down that and drew lots of suspicion from folks here in washington and skepticism. so it only seems this is a way to divert attention from what everyone has been talking about this week, bain revelations, mitt romney's tax returns. so it certainly has worked out that way, too. i think another point to be made is here was a week where mitt romney went before the national association of colored people and was booed and in some ways it's not necessarily coincidental that days later, he comes out with a story or his campaign comes out with a story where it seems to be that they are vetting very high-profile african-american and in some ways sending the signal that the

republican party is an inclusive one. which is a message they certainly need to send to independent voters. >> robert, conservative blogger, eric ericsson was quick to dampen the speculation when he wrote, i don't know who is hitting the crack rock tonight in the rumor mill but condoleeza rice is pro-abortion. she worked for george bush for eight years. could conservatives look past the social positions that she has, most notably on the choice issue, because they'd be thrilled to have a legitimate neoconsharing that ticket? >> first, i think eric is right, beyond the drug references, every single romney source i've spoken with today has thrown cold water on top of this rumor. they say romney is running his veep search like a consulting project. he's meticulous, tim pawlenty, rob portman, paul ryan that are part of that final list. condi is being floated by those people who went to that utah retreat. people who really had found her speech to be fantastic, and they're buzzing to reporters.

but inside of that boston high command, i don't think condi is a short lister. let's say she was an outside pick like you said. i think social conservatives would have some concerns they may make a stink at the convention in tampa, they could cause a stir on the floor. but i think the frustration toward the president is so strong that even though romney promised he would pick a pro-life candidate for vp, if he picks someone who is quote, mildly pro-choice, as rice describes herself, i think the anger toward the president would still get social conservatives out to the polls in november. >> nia-mallika, here is an indication of what social conservatives would do. dr. rice found a surprising supporter last night on fox. sarah palin says she likes the idea. >> i think that condoleeza rice would be a wonderful vice president and certainly has more experience than our sitting president does today. i would certainly prefer presidential and vice presidential candidate who had that respect for all innocent, precious, purposeful human life and showed that respect via

being a pro-life candidate. we need to remember, though, that it's not the vice president that would legislate abortion and that would be congress's role. and we'll keep that in mind. >> nia-malika, this would be interpreted as throwing the long ball, don't you think? this would be like a palin pick in the 2012 cycle. if anything, i've been anticipating that mitt romney will do something very conservative, not politically conservative, but very conservative in terms of the selection. >> that's right. a safe choice. nothing certainly to ostracize the evangelical base, which is so important in terms of energy. i talked to some top evangelicals today and they were apoplectic with this idea that it could be condoleezza rice. >> nia mallika, thank you. coming up next, many who look like disney characters. that's coming up in the "shed show." if you want to follow me on twitter, you need to figure out how to spell smerconish.

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back to "hardball." now for the "sideshow." first off, there was no shortage of outrage last week when the republican governor of maine paula page blasted president obama's health care plan saying, quote, you must buy health insurance or pay the new gestapo, the irs. that's right hitler's secret police during the holocaust. la page later apologized but talking to local porter paul hientz he swivelled from backing off his comments to doubling down. >> what i'm trying to say is that the holocaust was a horrific crime against humanity and, frankly, i would never want to see that repeated. maybe the irs is not quite as bad yet. >> so you're saying the irs is headed in the direction of the

gestapo? do you have a sense of what the gestapo actually did during world war ii? >> yeah, they killed a lot of people. >> the irs is heading in the direction, the direction of killing a lot of people? >> yeah. >> are you serious? >> yes, very serious. >> i'm just as incredulous as that radio host. no surprise the do-over caused more uproar and the governor has issued a new apology for his, quote, insensitivity to the word gestapo. insensitivity would seem like one heck of an understatement, don't you think? next, just as soon as these words came out of rick santorum's mouth back in march regarding mitt romney and health care reform we knew it would come back to bite him down the line. >> why would we put someone off who is uniquely, pick any other republican in the country, he is the worst republican in the country to put up against barack obama. >> santorum was in iowa this week and a local reporter asked him about the whole worst republican argument.

and here's what he said. just because i said he would be the worst person to square up against barack obama in an election doesn't mean that he wouldn't be far better than barack obama if he was elected. there's a head scratcher for you. what a way to set the stage for santorum's first campaign event for mitt romney scheduled in pennsylvania this weekend. and team romney may be floating the name condi in their search for a vp, but it was another member of the bush 43 team that had romney's back last night. dick cheney hosted a fundraiser for the candidate in his home state of wyoming. in addition to the contingent of donors, there were protesters on the scene. according to the l.a. times, one man wearing a darth vader mask held a sign with an arrow pointing to the direction of cheney's house that said dinner on the "titanic." another protester sign said, 1% towards the golf complex and 99% toward an entrance to the grand teton national park. any pictures to commemorate the evening? no, the event was closed to the press and one possible reason is

cheney left office with a 13% approval rating. a snapshot of the duo might not be the best selling point. finally, ever watched a classic disney movie and said, hey that character reminds me of someone? well, the folks at the huffington post did some match-ups. let's look at some highlights, all personalities aside. barney frank, look for his look alike, think goofy but loyal companion, how about mr. smee from peter pan. all the congressman needs is that hat and it's a done deal. then there's sarah palin. we have seen this snapshot before. the hint? her disney twin transitions from ladylike to the wild ways of her husband when they get married. it's jane porter from tarzan. i guess we could say they both went rogue. next it's charlie rangel. democrat from new york. his best friend is literally the light of his love. give it up for cogsworth from "beauty and the beast." best buddy to lumiere. lastly, ron paul, his disney doppelganger is anything but fun-loving.

he hid the story's main character in a church bell tower for years after being tasked with raising him. it's claude frollo from the hunchback of notre dame. i think that one takes the cake. that's "hardball" for now. coming up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg. [ male announcer ] this is rudy. his morning starts with arthritis pain. and two pills. afternoon's overhaul starts with more pain. more pills. triple checking hydraulics. the evening brings more pain. so, back to more pills. almost done, when... hang on. stan's doctor recommended aleve. it can keep pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is rudy. who switched to aleve. and two pills for a day free of pain. ♪ [ female announcer ] and try aleve for relief from tough headaches.

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