small business reality check. as congress fights, what exactly is the impact of the affordable health care act, and taxes on main street entrepreneurs? and an interior designer faces disaster when she puts big clients over smaller ones. it's time to make money, coming up next on "your business." >> small businesses are

revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to help. that's why we are proud to present "your business" on msnbc. hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg and welcome to "your business" where we give you tips and advice to help your business grow. a couple of weeks ago the supreme court upheld the affordable care act. but that has not ended the debate surrounding the law, and whether it's good or bad for small business. those in favor of it say that health care costs will go down. and more small businesses will have the ability to provide health insurance for their employees. those on the other side, those against the law, say actually costs are going to go up and this is going to be a big burden on small businesses already struggling with so many other issues. at the same time, the debate over extending the bush tax cuts rages on.

the obama administration proposes extending the cuts only for those making under $250,000 a year. which includes the vast majority, 97%, they say, of small business owners. republicans say that not extending the tax cuts to everyone will hamper small business and slow job growth. so, what is the truth? today we're going to dig into the details to find out how these policies affect you with a small business reality check. john arensmeyer is the founder and ceo of small business majority. a national small business advocacy group. and jean card is the vice president of media and communications at the nfib. great to see both of you guys. >> good to be here, j.j. thank you. >> good to be here. >> so, jean, i want to start with you. the nfib was one of the parties that brought suit against the affordable care act. so explain to me, as a small business owner, how is this going to adversely affect me? >> well, it's really what you were saying earlier, is the cost

issue. and that was a big concern of ours from the very beginning when this bill was being debated. and unfortunately, we did sue on the individual mandate. we don't think that our members should be forced to purchase a product that they may not want or need, but overall -- >> i just want to stop you for one second. >> sure. >> most small businesses are under 50 people. most small businesses over 25 people already provide health insurance. so let's take away the part that suddenly, i, as a small business, am going to be forced to buy health care. because for the most part i'm not going to. and most already do anyhow, besides that it's going to be required. so, let's just say i have a business. i'm 25 people. how is this going to adversely affect me? >> yeah, you're right. if you don't have more than 50 employees you don't have to provide it for them. however, the cost is really high right now, and it's only going to get higher. there's going to be a tax that hits the types of plans that small businesses purchase, the types of insurance plans. that's a tax that won't go on the backs of bigger businesses.

only small business. the regulations are going to be pretty burdensome. and a small business owner, you know, they don't have an hr department where they can say, hey, figure this out for me. which a big business has, of course. they need to figure it out themselves. that's man hours. or maybe they need to hire someone to figure out all these rules and regulations and requirements. >> john, so we know right now if you're under 50 people you're not going to be required to do anything. do you agree that costs are going to go up? for me, who is providing health care right now, am i suddenly going to have to spend more? >> there's really nothing in this bill that -- in this law, that is going to raise your costs. unfortunately, we really need to get beyond the politics on this. there's been way too much heat rather than light shown on this law. when you really dig in you see that there are a number of very important cost containment provisions for small business, and a lot of increased opportunity. ranging from opportunities that are available now to get tax

credits, to have greater scrutiny of the insurance companies and require that they pay 80% of what they take in to actual medical care. and then in the future, when the law is fully implemented in 2014, we're going to have the opportunity to have exchanges in all 50 states, which are really marketplaces where, for the first time, small businesses will be able to close the cost gap with big business by having economies of scale, lower administrative costs, and greater negotiating power, and greater choice to go buy a much wider range of products. >> so jean right now, small businesses are already paying so much more for health care than large businesses. you think that that discrepancy is going to get even greater? >> i do. and you know, something we haven't talked about yet is the mandatory minimum benefits. and that's a regulatory piece that will come out of health and human services. we're very concerned about that. because basically the government will say, that every insurance policy must have a minimum level of benefits. this is like telling people that you can't buy a corolla anymore. you have to buy a cadillac. we don't know how high it's going to go.

but we're very concerned that small business owners, self-employed, who might want a very basic sort of bare bones, inexpensive health care plan, won't be able to purchase that anymore. they'll have to buy something that's more expensive than what they want or need. >> and john you're shaking your head there. you don't agree with this? >> well, in fact, there's going to be a wide range of choices of plans on the exchanges. and the minimum coverage that jean refers to, that's actually what the department of health and human services has done is given the states wide latitude to set those standards, and, in fact, those standards are going to be pegged to the cost of the -- to benefits that are in existing policies right now. so while there may be a few outlyer plans that really don't provide the kind of preventive care that's necessary to bring costs down or really don't cover really basic services, in fact, the standards are going to be pegged to exactly what is in most plans today. and there's going to be up to the states to determine what's right for their state. >> yeah, right now, the big question, at least for me is, are costs going to go up or

down. and it's -- i have not been able to figure out, because i hear arguments on both sides, what's going to happen. i could talk about this for an hour. but i need to -- i need to change right now to extending the bush tax cuts. and so, john, you've been waiting patiently over there. tell me a little bit about your feelings about extending them only for those people who earn $250,000 or less. what effect does this have on small business? >> well, 97% of all small business owners have personal income tax of under $250,000 for a family. so, we applaud the apparent bipartisan desire to extend those tax credits for those making under $250,000. which is going to cover, as i said, 97% of small businesses. so the question is, in a situation where we have a deficit, and, you know, dollars are scarce, you know, what is the best deployment of the resources we have? and we have to be very targeted

with the tax cuts. and quite frankly, not only do only 3% of small businesses fall in the category of the so-called bush tax cuts or the wealthy, but, in fact, many studies have shown that the spending that's done by people over $250,000 is way -- has way less impact on the economy than the spending that happens of the vast majority of people making under that. and what we really need is we need more dollars in the economy so that -- that are circulating, so that people can buy the products and services of small businesses. we'd be much better off using this sort of tax cuts that might be available to us to do targeted tax cuts such as those that the president has recently proposed and are being debated in the senate right now. >> okay. jean, i want to give you a chance, because you feel very differently about this. that actually, there will be an adverse effect on small business. that 3% is actually quite meaningful. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, this is really a debate about job creation. and if you look at the businesses that are affected,

are in those -- the upper bracket levels, they are job creators. they produce more of the jobs than the rest of the small business community. so it's very impactful when it comes to jobs. and again, i think i said it before, anything in the current economic environment that discourages job creation is just a bad idea. it also sends a terrible message. i mean, small business owners pay taxes at the individual rate. and a lot of people don't understand that. so whenever there's a debate about individual rates, and making them higher, the small business community, that makes them very nervous. because today it's $250,000. but what is it going to be next year? and eventually it's going to hit your business, and that's -- that's your business investment money. it's not just your income that goes into your pocket. it's what you use to hire people, to plan, to buy new equipment, et cetera. so there -- there are a lot of threats. and a lot of them are frankly, psychological and optimism or lack thereof that we know is so important to the economy. >> all right. john, jean, thank you so much for coming on and shedding some light on two incredibly complicated issues. really appreciate it.

>> thanks, j.j. landing large clients for your business is a very big deal. they're exciting. they're good for your bottom line. and they can help you get other large projects. but, are these big gains always enough for you to turn down smaller customers? one entrepreneur says the answer to that is a resounding no. >> i have to tell you, it was my biggest mistake. i will never make that mistake again. and i haven't. and i was ashamed of myself. i have to be honest with you. >> interior designer pamela bayer does not sugarcoat anything when it comes to talking about how she used to run her business. >> i looked at this and i thought to myself, this is one of the stupidest things you've ever done. >> there was a time when her company, pamela bayer inteerp yores was booming. >> i was huge. i could have said easily my two years i was gold. >> back then, pamela, who splits her time between hudson, ohio,

and the new york city area, had some very large clients. >> i would say on the east coast four, and here one. and the one here was the biggest. it was like we were having a party every day at work, because everybody was happy. i mean, doughnuts flowed. we were so contented with it. and when i tell you everybody showed up early, everybody would stay late. >> because she had these corporate customers who were lining up, and willing to pay up, pamela started telling some of her smaller clients she was no longer available. >> i had to take a step back and reassess my jobs. my jobs were large, take ago lot of time. i didn't think i was going to be able to take the smaller jobs and do the correct -- the job for my client. >> earnest and his wife tried to work with pamela during that time, but she turned them down. >> she came, she was like, oh, you need help but i don't have time. i got so many other things going on. i knew right away she was out of our league. she's doing all these other things. so i -- when she left i told my wife, i said, she won't be

calling back. >> even though pamela was saying no, she wasn't leaving these potential clients high and dry. she did introduce them to other people. >> i would find other interior designers, and i would try to hook them up with them, make sure that they were feeling at least that they weren't left in the dark. >> the decision to focus on larger jobs ended up coming back to haunt pamela. after refusing so many small customers, her plan to think big went bust. >> within a six-month period, we were dead in the water. >> some of the large jobs pamela was banking on were cut back. or just cut altogether. >> that was terrifying. i have to be honest with you. i was really terrified. it takes your breath away. it really does. and you think of every horrible situation that can happen. >> a change needed to happen, and happen fast. pamela decided it was time to redesign her business plan. instead of just thinking big, she knew she needed to diversify by thinking big, and small. >> i think probably within 24

hours i started calling my other clients, the smaller clients. i really hopped off my pedestal and reassessed it and really decided to make amends to those people. >> through a series of phone calls and face-to-face meetings, pamela started to repair the damage. >> i went back to these clients and humbly apologized to them. i felt as if i had to make amends. in a little bit larger fashion. i always make a phone call. i say, i'd like to just talk to you. and the nice part about it, they were very open to it. and i always brought flowers or a card, and i always hand write them. >> pamela made it clear that she wanted back in her customers' lives. despite the fact that she had said no not that long before. >> i hoped i did not hurt their feelings. because it's very person. i'm in their homes. >> ernie remembers the day he and his wife got the call. >> it wasn't more than three months and she got back in touch with us and said she had carved out some time and was able to make it happen. she was very honest. she said she had some bigger clients and some things didn't work out. >> ernie says pamela's honesty

made it easy for them to decide to work together. he knew any decision was strictly business. >> i understood it completely when she said that. and didn't take it personal one bit. and she gave -- i think the thing that struck me was she came on this job and treated as if it was one of her major corporate jobs. >> gary would agree. he says pamela won him over with her top notch customer service. >> the projects we were giving her generally were rather small ones. pamela was always very accessible to us. she wasn't here all the time, but she kept her commitments when needed to be here, or we needed her. >> part of pamela's mission is to make sure that every customer knows they are just as valuable as the next. >> i want to take every client's job and make it so important, because each client really wants to feel like number one. it really doesn't matter to me if it's small or large. >> pamela says she and her team only lost about a week's worth of work. but the experience taught her

the value of smaller clients. >> i thought i was almost wasting my time a little bit on the smaller ones. and upon reflection i realized that was really not the case. i think they are your bread and butter. i think they're your stepping stone. >> it also reinforced for her the importance of being open and honest with her customers, and taking responsibility for your actions. >> learn by your mistakes. apologize when you make a mistake. make amends. don't point the finger. making that one mistake, that's all you have sometimes. and if you don't make amends and do it, don't do it the right way, you don't have work. >> a big client can sustain a small business but what happens when they go away? let's turn to this week's board of directors. colleen debaise is the special projects director at entrepreneur.com and paul lewis is a serial entrepreneur on business number five, right? i feel like every time you're here there's another business. but we've been on five for a little while. >> little bit, yes. >> so this piece is interesting

because, in some ways it contradicts a lot of what we talk about on this show, which is that every client isn't the same. and actually you should treat people differently. what she found is, you know, she got rid of some of the small clients, put the big clients on a pedestal, and then suddenly, it ruined her business almost. how do you deal with this? >> i think what happened here is the big clients came in quickly, but not enough of them to sustain the business. so, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. you need to diversify and don't forget about the bread and butter clients that you have >> smaller ones, don't forget that the small client today can be tomorrow's, you know, blockbuster success. you know, when i think about, say, like an instagram, you know, what if you were the company that turned instagram down, you know, when way were only, you know, 10, 20 employees, then, you know, a year later they're worth a billion dollars. so -- >> right. so it is hard. but if you have, you know, this

much, a finite amount of time to spend and you have these big clients you know are huge coming at you, how do you say to yourself, okay, work on that. take a little time and go court this person who, you know, in her case has a small apartment? >> yeah, so it's tempting, right? because everybody wants the big client. that's where all the big money is going to be. but it looks like she was looking at top-line revenue as where she's going to make the decision if it's a good client or not. so, a small client may be a good client, but they might not have the amount of revenue. she may be actually making more money on some of the smaller clients. but i think a good indicator would be who's referring business to her? so if you've got a client that's referring business in, that's a great client that you want to keep. >> yeah. and i think, too, i'm of the opinion that the plan can be different for a smaller client than a large client. i just, you know, i understand that she's a business owner who wants to be a perfectionist and give them all this time and attention. but i think you can only give the time and attention that they deserve you know, nor what they're paying. so i would say maybe a more bare

bones pricing package for a smaller client. >> it's all about sitting down and thinking about where is your money going to go. >> yes. >> or where is your money coming from and what are your contingency plans. >> yes. >> then what. i think it's a great piece. thanks so much, you guys. >> you're welcome. when you're traveling, a slew of unexpected issues can pop up along the way. so here are five tips to make your next business trip less stressful. courtesy of entrepreneur.com. one, leave early. give yourself more time than you think is necessary to get to your destination. you can use bonus time to work on something else, but you won't be stressed if you run into a problem en route. two, make sure to have all of your travel information on your smart phone. do not underestimate the value of having easy access to confirmation numbers and your itinerary. three, invest in an airline membership program. you can earn access to the club area so that waiting for your flight will be more comfortable, and you'll get special perks the more you fly.

four, carry cash. you may get to a place that doesn't take credit. so keep some money on hand for any unexpected expenses like cab fares or lunch. and five, plan your meal times. from the airport to your destination, to the journey home, you have to eat. arrange where and what you're going to eat before you even leave your house. still ahead, how does a business consultant convince clients that she should be paid for her time and advice? and, an elevator pitch with strings attached. the creator of a folding travel guitar looks for business partners to do it with. you know, those farmers, those foragers, those fishermen.... for me, it's really about building this extraordinary community.

american express is passionate about the same thing. they're one of those partners that i would really rely on whether it's finding new customers, or, a new location for my next restaurant. when we all come together, my restaurants, my partners, and the community amazing things happen. to me, that's the membership effect. traveling musicians are always lugging their instruments around causing problems. today's elevator pitch came up with a unique idea for those guitarists on the road. ♪ hi, i'm jeff cohen and this is mark, professional guitarist.

he's playing a voyage air guitar which is the first high-quality guitar that folds and fits in a backpack. several of our patents have already issued. i already raised $3 million. we sold 3,000 guitars for more than $1.5 million. but here's the exciting part, there's 2.6 million guitars sold every single year. now, if we can just penetrate 3% of that market, thad give us 75,000 guitars and with a $350 average wholesale price, that generates a $26 million business. that's a real business. now, why i'm here, i need another $3 million to build out large-scale manufacturing to meet global demand and meet our sale and marketing initiatives. my executives can expect a 20% return and you can get more information at voyager.com. >> you, no doubt, are an experienced elevator pitcher.

and fantastic, i was not expecting that. beautiful playing. now, to you, colleen, how do you think he did? >> i think that is great. i love how this folds up. i was just on an extended camping trip and all my nephews brought guitars along. i think it is a great concept. >> did he get everything in the pitch? >> yes, i would have liked to have heard, if you had any big-name musicians using this, i would have loved to hear that. >> definitely if you can get someone to endorse it or someone's name behind it. the idea of a folding guitar, it must have been patented 100 years ago, the fact that you have patent pending. >> another meeting? >> for sure. >> i would definitely take another meeting. >> fantastic, thank you so much. thank you so much for the musical part of this, of this elevator pitch, our first so far

and thank you guys so much for all of your advice. if any of you have a product or a service and you want elevator pitch feedback, all you have to do is send us an e-mail, yourbusiness@msnbc.com. in that e-mail, include a short summary of what your company does, how much money you're trying to raise and what you intend to do with that money. you never know, someone out there watching the show, might be interested in helping you. time now to answer some of your business questions. colleen and paul are with us, once again. working as a consultant and getting paid. >> how do you prevent people taking advantage and from you giving away your time and your knowledge wouithout the awkwardness, you have to pay me for this information and this time? >> a lot of consultants have this issue because it might be a friend or a friend of a friend, but it's your business to give advice.

how do you do it without being awkward? >> this is where it falls on you as the business owner to become comfortable with the sales process and that could be difficult for people. i kind of guess from her and how she asked that question that she's not comfortable with this yet. so, i would suggest to her to develop this kind of procedure or policy of how she always handles these conversations with people and, yeah, sure, have that initial conversation, but once they really start to ask for more information, you know what, let's set up a meeting, i can tell you what i can do for you and tell you what my rates are and then just use that as her normal way of handling it. >> i would love to answer this question but i need to be retained first. that's what you should set that expectation early and you're a professional and you're going to get paid for your services. set it up from the initial service that they're going to have to pay for the service. >> i like the idea, too, why don't you come into my office. >> it's like a trigger.

>> it frames it as, okay, now, this is a professional conversation. >> instead of a casual discussion. >> you want to have the casual discussion, it's part of networking. you want to get to know a person and make them trust you. >> let's move on to the next one. people are so used to using google, the phone book and other traditional forms of advertising. my company sells ads on the back of fortune cookie strips. seems to me like he's got to go to the right people first. >> the thing that i don't like about this question, how does he get people to trust his system? if you're asking that question, you have to go back and look at your system and see why internally you have to ask that question. >> if he's trying to sigh on clients and get them to trust the strategy. the best thing you can have is testimonials from previous clients. so f he doesn't have those

clients yet, then what i would suggest is maybe trying trying to sign on some people by offering a discounted rate and once he signs people on and they love it and it's working for them, then he could sign on more clients and start to adjust his rate. >> the last question from brian. he writes, i have been asking customers to post reviews on yelp and other similar pages. i have eight reviews on yelp and they filtered seven of them. >> they try to filter those that are spam. >> this is frustrating for business owners not just yelp but other sites do this, as well. so, for this, i mean, i think what yelp does and it's very public on this. how established the reviewer is. if it's people who are just writing reviews for the first time, it might not show up. >> that's the secret sauce, they don't want you to know how they filter reviews, but they do

filter the reviews and, you're right, they're trying to eliminate people who are just pounding a company or you get your friends together to write positive reviews and get real, quality reviews. >> the thing is for him he should just try to get more reviews and from people who are used to reviewing a lot of sites. >> i would say that and also to not just to forget to focus on customer service rather than getting frustrated about online review sites. if you focus on, what's the expression, if you build it, they will come. if you off aer really great service and great products, the good reviews will come. >> the best review is an unsolicited review. >> you guys, thank you so much. we appreciate all your advice and the serenade we got earlier. thanks, guys. and if any of you out there have a question for our experts, all you have to do is go to our website. the address is openforum.com/yourbusiness.

once you get there, hit the ask the show link and you can submit a question for our panel. again, openforum.com/yourbusiness. or if you'd rather, e-mail your question and your comments, we like hearing those, too. yourbusiness@msnbc.com. if you are looking to get information from users through your small business website, then check out our website of the week. gravityforums.com helps you build world press forums that you can add to your site. notification e-mails are easy to create using the built-in tools provided and customize everything to meet your needs. to learn more about today's show, all you have to do is click on our website, openforum.com/yourbusiness. you'll find all of today's segments plus web exclusive content with more information to help your business grow. you can also follow us on twitter. and, please, don't forget to

become a fan of the show on facebook. we'd love getting your feedback. next week, the naked truth behind the newest trend in fitness. >> anyone who believes that pole fitness, pole is the club-type thing is way behind the eight ball, it's evolved. it's a fitness phenomenon right now. >> we take a look at how pole fitness studios across the country are teaming up to change perceptions, share resources and even lobbying to get pole dancing in the olympics. till then, i'm j.j. ramberg and, remember, we make your business, our business. they have names like idle time books and smash records and on small business saturday they remind a nation of the benefits of shopping small. on just one day, 100 million of us joined a movement...