team are all now dead. rebels say they've planned the bombing and army helicopters are still retaliating by firing on neighborhoods as the war rages on. the u.n. security council was supposed to be voting this hour on a resolution to put additional sanctions on syria and the assad regime. that has been delayed till tomorrow. russia, of course, has veto power over the security council and has been strongly against both added sanctions or military intervention in syria. there are also reports the white house is saying to stay away from all of this till after the november elections. but pentagon chief leon panetta says we might not be able to wait that long. >> we are very concerned by the increasing violence that's taking place in syria. the violence there has only gotten worse and the loss of lives has only increased. which tells us that this is a situation that is rapidly spinning out of control. >> all right. we will start now with nbc news

foreign correspondent eamon mohyeldin and mike viqueira at the white house. ayman, you say today's attack is tactically significant. >> tactically, you've taken out the deputy minister of defense, the defense minister and a senior military officer all within the command and control structure of the military at the tip and spear of these. 0 rations to suppress the uprising. have you disrupted that to the extent that the military can not trust of who is among its midst. how did they penetrate the inner circle of the regime to carry out such a lethal explosion. even if they cannot meet to discuss out who carry out operations you get the sense of the kind of paranoia that can infiltrate the inner circles of the regime. from a psychological point of view that somebody was able to

go deep into the heart of the regime with little collateral daniel no doubt is going to raise the anxiety levels because president assad, the question is how can he even meet with his senior officials if those among them cannot be trusted. it will have an impact on both fronts. >> ayman, there's more news in the region today. there's also a story out of bulgaria where seven israeli tourists at least right now are reportedly dead after an attack on a bus carrying them. benjamin netanyahu says he blames iran for this and ready to respond forcefully. i wonder what you think the implications for this are in terms of the israel and iran situation. >> well, there's to doubt there's been this proxy war, if you will, over the past several years months taking place. we saw nens in india and other countries where israel and western countries pinted the finger drengtly at iran for attempting to carry out attacks against israeli interests in

those countries. the question really is, what evidence is there that this was carried out by iran. we know that the politics of it likely point to iran, but there has to be clear evidence nonetheless, regardless, it will only raise the level of anxiety in this part of the world that much more. the tension between these two countries has been mounting for the last several months. if indeed this is proven to be an iranian attack and if it is proven to be one with direct relations to the iranian government, there's no doubt that it is going to raise those stakes that much more. >> let me go to you, vick. there's been talk throughout the arab spring really about al qaeda infiltrating these rebel groups, including in syria. and it's not surprising. al qaeda has a history of exploiting these opportunities of chaos to come in and sort of infiltrate these vulnerable groups. i'm wondering if you have any insight as to why the obama administration, why the united states seems to think that that's a good reason not to

intervene supposed to a good reason to intervene. >> probably because there's a lot more to it than that, frankly. the situation in libya was complicated enough and the situation leading up to the ouster of moammer gadhafi and his ultimate death chaotic enough the administration sees this as much more in the heather of the middle east. bashar al assad is obviously a pariah in many quarts but to the extent that gadhafi was. when you factor in the fact that the iranian government remains the sole ally in the whole shia sunni schism in the area, it makes it that much more complicated and brings into question the extent ta al qaeda might be playing because al qaeda is really not a force to be reckoned with in the shia world, particularly in iran. there's a whole lot to unpack here. we learned in the briefing today, jay carney confirming the

packet that president obama called his russian counterpart, vladimir putin about a couple hours ago i guess it was. they talked about syria on the eve of this upcoming vote ayman was just talking about. >> one of the things on the agenda tomorrow is reauthorizing the mission of the u.n. monitors who have been in syria. from all accounts today, those u.n. monitors are basically relegated to their hotel and aren't able to do any of the ork they were sent there to do. have had he accomplished anything and is there any point from a frac cal standpoint of a continued u.n. monitoring mission? >> well, it depends on who you ask. if you look at the trajectory of this u.n. observer mission over the past 90 days, which was the or mandate, it has completely failed to do what it was meant to do which is observe and try to refrain the two sides really from engaging in violence. so what has happened is about six weeks ago, the violent spike to a degree that even the u.n.

observe ser vers on the ground didn't feel safe. they were being subjected to attacks and it rendered them useless. now the discussion was, why would you even want to reup that u.n. missioning if in fact the first mission completely failed and neither side is abiding by the truce? the sticking point is that the united states and western countries wanted to enforce that this time around, if both sides don't meet the requirements that this could be enforced by the united nations under a chapter 7 claus or i an chapter 7 resolution. russia objects to that and sayny mention to chapter 7 would be a gateway for wen countries to use us military interventionings to force president assad out of power and that is thing they've rejected throughout this entire conflict. >> mike, take us into the white house thought process for a second. what part does the fact that this is a civil war as said by the red cross and everybody else, what part does that play. >> generally we don't intervene.

civil conflicts. yes, libya, yes bosnia, but -- >> i think each ep situation really dictates by the country, by the geo politics by some of the things we were talking about earlier. you look at what president obama said and did leading up to the libya, to go back to that. moammar gadhafi's forces were simply an propping benghazi. the jeo politics involving russia and china with russia supplying syria many of its arms. now the president used moammar gadhafi's threatening speech that he was going to take them from our closs hes and take them out and shoot them as a pretense to entering the international coalition. when you look at the complicated domestic politics, john mccain saying virtually every the administration's performance has been shameful on this. this is much more complicate

the. the geopolitics are much more involved. they're treading very carefully working to build the international coalition and perhaps there's some indications here, putin just met with kofi annan in moscow. now we've had the call on the eve of this vote here. some indications russia might be thinking its arm apples policy towards syria at this time and this dramatic development with the assassination of the defense minister and bashar al assad himself. i don't think anybody knows exactly what's going to be happening. >> mike, any indication at that time assassination today is changing the administration's calculus with regards to getting more involved directly in syria. >> i don't think so. the violence is increasing. it makes clear assad is losing his cloel. in trying to keep the pressure such as they can, without

getting directly involved and bringing themselves into direct conflict with russia and china, diplomatically on this situation, although again, that's a point of vulnerability politically, if people are dying, then why are we waiting for russia and china's permission to do anything? but i think the situation is so complicated so tricky that they're hoping things go their way. meanwhile, unfortunately, incidents liking this are happening. >> mike viqueira and a man mew ha dean. up next, the budget cuts that could cost america millions of jobs. we're putting it through the spin cycle as we roll along for wednesday, july 18th. eat good fats. avoid bad. don't go over 2000... 1200 calories a day. carbs are bad. carbs are good. the story keeps changing. so i'm not listening... to anyone but myself. i know better nutrition when i see it: great grains. great grains cereal starts whole and stays whole. see the seam? more processed flakes look nothing like natural grains.

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five months until those da yoen crohnian across the board budget cuts comeful congress can't agree on a new plan and a new report is putting a number on how many jobs could be cut as a result. the aerospace industry's association which we should say will likely suffer lost profits if the cuts go through, claims that 2 million jobs would be lost. .cue bipartisan hysteria. so when i think about this, clearly, i mean, we should say the aerospace industry's report is very self-serving. they are concerned about their profits and their sort of doing some fear mongering. that's not to say there won't really be jobs lost here, but to put it in perspective, is the defense industry's profits overall have quadrupled over the past decade.

if you are going to look at short-term deficit reduction which is a whole other conversation entirely, but if you're going to look at that, i think military cuts seem like the logical place to go. and the other issue i have with this is should we really be looking at our defense industry as a jobs program? >> well, in the irony to me there's a certain irony of yes, this is bipartisan. the industry is very powerful. you're going to have a lot of democrats and republicans saying we can't do this. the same republicans who claimed the sim stimulus was a total failure that didn't create jobs and insisting there can be no further stimulus. even there was resistance initially to the payroll tax cuts. when you look at the stimulative effect of defense spending it's real but not nearly as significant as investing in public jobs. so have you these people who are suddenly believinging in government stimulus when it's feeding the defense industry who deny that the government can do anything to stimulate the

economy in any other realm. i find that interesting. >> there are plenty of republicans who acknowledge we need to make cuts across the board and put up defense as a sector to look at. i think you're right that defense isn't necessarily, we shouldn't see defense as sort of a job creator, it is. and as biased as you think the report may be, it also included and put up some of the numbers about the other sectors that are going to potentially lose jobs in health care close to 50,000 jobs lost, construction close to 100,000 jobs lost. 473,000 in manufacturing and 617,000 federal jobs. i mean, we can talk about where those numbers are coming from, but clearly, the cuts we're looking at are not just going to impact defense. >> right. so that brings me to my other question, which is, given the fact that we have over 8% unemployment, we have interest rates that are basically at 0% so you couldn't borrow money basically for nothing, and our

inflation is below the fed target of 2%, why are we doing short-term immediate term deficit reduction at all? why are we doing it? i don't understand that. >> i think we're looking at a lot of bluffing on both sides. liar's poker all around. the republicans are not going to let the pentagon budget be cut, the democrats won't let taxes go up and people making $80,000. very little of this is going to happen. as soon as we get to a new president or a new -- through the election, then we're going to make a deal and move on. >> you're saying sequestering is not going to happen, that we're going to address this before? >> yes. >> i'm not at all. >> on the defense cuts, because as steve was pointing out, there's so many districts across is the country, democrat and republican who are looking at the money that they get and the jobs in their district who aren't going to go along. >> i wouldn't say we're going to have a deal at all. the most likely thing at this point, democrats are talking about letting that december 31st

deadline come and go which would trigger all of the taxes to return to the pre-bush levels and at that point, that might be the only way you could get republicans who for 22 years unanimously opposed any tax increase, that might be the only way to get republicans to say we'll do the tax -- >> a 59-year-old utah scientist who unfortunately succumbed to throat cancer earlier this month used his obituary as lets just say a final experiment. it started off like any other obituary until this sentence. i have confessions and things i should now say. and with that, he admitted to a wide array of offenses including lying about earning his ph.d. which enabled him to have his successful career and even stealing a safe from a motel when he was a teenager. so that got us thinking here on "the cycle" about what we might admit to in our last words.

>> what would you say? >> well -- >> it's such a juicy prospect. >> when i was thering about this i was thinking what about me isn't already out there on the internet? honestly. google me. trust me. it's all out there. >> so are will read krill bawl, google me. >> perfect. i was also thinking about this, and i don't know that i'm very interesting as a person and being a professional talker writer, i say everything. i write everything. i don't know what's unknown. maybe i'd reveal some of my advices. >> like? >> i have some. >> i would save it for myoby the. >> but this is the exercise we're doing now. >> but that's the point. you know, i want a career. so -- >> cheyenne reviewed. >> what about steve? >> i want to hear tourre's. >> i feel totally abandoned in this exercise because you know, i went in and i was like you

know, well, if it was myoby the and what would i say. you know, there are things that you know, we could talk about. >> get to it. >> you know, there was long period of time in my life before i met my wife when i really only liked women who had a boyfriend or a husband. so there was a long period of time when i was, you know, backdoorman to use the old blues term. and it's extremely exciting to be the -- i'll play you the blues. it's extremely exciting to be the other guy and you know, it's -- >> there wasn't jealousy there for you? >> no, because i knew if she had somebody else and spending time with me that she really wanted to be with me in that moment and you get the sexual cat blurring lar thing going on. >> that's enough of that. >> thanks for your confession. >> steve? >> i thought about it. i think my dignity is important to me. i really feel sort of like you feel. i'm going to keep it close to

the vest. i don't want to the share embarrassing things about myself. >> is it too late. >> it's too late. we've already seen you do that. >> oh, dear. >> i have irrational fears and some obsessive compulsive tendencies. i wouldn't call them superer significances. if i'm walking to the left, i'll catch myself, when i went this way something bad happened so i'll walk over to the right one. 0 or conversely, something good happened. i'll keep score, how many cracksdy step on. if i'm in my apartment alone and you know i get the thought in my head, i can't get the thought out till i check every space big enough to hold a human being. >> so. >> that's even funnier the second time. >> that was my. >> dignity is important to you. >> that was my nonunion mexican equivalent. you've now -- life on the simpsons. >> all right. thanks for sharing. >> again. >> up next, quick, name the top six athletes to watch at the

olympics. if you can't, that's why you need to watch our next segment, the cycle's guide to the games is straight ahead. i look at her, and i just want to give her everything. yeah, you -- you know, everything can cost upwards of...[ whistles ] i did not want to think about that. relax, relax, relax. look at me, look at me. three words, dad -- e-trade financial consultants. so i can just go talk to 'em? just walk right in and talk to 'em. dude, those guys are pros. they'll hook you up with a solid plan. they'll -- wa-- wa-- wait a minute. bobby? bobby! what are you doing, man? i'm speed dating! [ male announcer ] get investing advice for your family at e-trade.

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>> all right. it's time for some olympic action. in less than two weeks, we here at "the cycle" been taking a brief summer recess. the summer games will be airing on the nbc family of networks including your favorite cable news channel msnbc. with the world's best athletes in competition live every day all day, there's going to be a lot to see. so this week and next, we'll be counting down the top six athletes to watch for with john wirth heim, he's got the definitive list to keep an eye

on. he's got three for us today, another three next week and joins us now. thanks for stopping by. i guess take us through your list. who are the three, the first three we'll be watching for. >> back up two seconds. one of the great things about the ploing ssz sometimes we don't know who the stars are and we have athletes who emerge from the games. we always have that. we'll start with michael phelps who is the google. he's the blue chip choice. very good chance he will leave these games as the most successful olympian ever. he already has won 16 medals, 14 gold. started in athens and in beijing and to you going for his third olympics. there's not much we don't know the about this guy. he's been in our lives for eight years, endorses subway. there's a lot we know about michael phelps but realistically he will leave this as the most decorated olympian of all time. that makes him probably number one. >> number two. we'll go like mid cap here. keep an eye on john erasco from

the hot he bed of the bronx. great story. he fell in love with gymnastics and ending up going to chappaqua to train. he is one of those olympic back stories where his father worked for the department of sanitation here in new york. had to retire a few months short of his pension. both of his parents are puerto rican. he won the all-around at the u.s. championships coming in and a great back story, great guy. i think we'll be hearing a lot about john orozco in the next three weeks. >> number three. >> total wildcard. i was in israel last week for another story. someone tipped me off to a. >> you doe competitor who is plin maher abu rmeileh. he qualified not as a wildcard as others have in the past but qualified legitimately for london. he's going to compete in the olympics and two weeks prior

he's selling head carves in the market. a delightful guy. you wish him well and he's again, one of these uniquely olympian stories that hopefully we'll be hearing more about. >> let me open it up here to the table. let's just sort of go around. we'll all be watching the olympics and we'll have time on our hands. who are we going to be looking for? krystal, who is number one. >> i'm a swimmer. i normally watch swimmers. i'm excites about michael phelps. sarah robles is the highest ranked weight lifter in the united states, not only a superb athlete and has a chance of ending our 12-year medal drought in weightlifting but also an image activist. and her mantra is beauty is strength. she had been living on $400 a month because she couldn't get a sponsorship because she doesn't fit the sort of typical fee pail ideal of beauty and she just received her first professional sponsorship. congratulations to her on that. excited to watch her at the games. >> i'm going to be looking at oscar pistorius, the double

amputee, the blade rinner runs on blades. the sprinter from the south africa lost his legs as a kid and had.to fight to get into the games. and i think there's something beautiful about embracing everybody, including this pair ral olympian who just had to fight to get in and fight to just get here. everybody has to fight to get here, this guy a little bit more than everybody had to fight to get to this position. it will be a bit of a heartwarming story even if he doesn't win gold. i'm not sure that anybody expects that, but just. >> >> a great story. >> just to see him sprint is heavy. >> you know, i've been so nerdy and obsessed with the election, i really did not know anyone coming into these games. and earlier talking to our producers and admitting this, and then i got a very kind e-mail from one of our producers saying you need to check out brady ellis son. i know you. and he does. he's an archer that specializes

in recurve archery. from glendale, arizona. a town i'm very familiar with. so i will be watching you, brady. >> you might have to watch about 3:00 a.m. when they normal little air archery. >> all my favorite sports are the midnight ones. >> my favorite sport is basketball. but i am -- i got to be honest, i am board by the u.s. basketball team. when i see an elephant stomping on an ant, i don't say. >> you're a communist. >> so my team is not one athlete, it's the tunisian basketball team. that's the best player, sala marjorie. shocking upset of angola which allowed them to qualify for the olympic basketball tournament for the first time. so tonnesia, the highest ranked team, lowest, the worst ranking in the world in the olympics, no nba prospects coming out of

there. that is my team. about an 85 i point underdog. my team. john? >> be ask one question. i know you're a huge serena williams fan. have you her winning the gold? unquestionably. the olympics will be played at wimbledon. same venue where she just won. i would pay big money for that tunisian jersey. that thing looked great. >> i was going to ask, if they win, will you wear their jersey. >> i want his autograph. the 7'1" giant. thank you so much for joining us. jon, we look forward to catching up with you next week. coming up, a public school you would want your kids to go to. we'll take you to its leader next on "the cycle."

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the white house today rolled out the program to encourage new teachers that will give the top 50 teachers a $20,000 on top of their salary in exchange for a commitment to the profession. the president hopes to expand the program to 10,000 teaches. good start to the addressing why a large part of the american dream sun reachable for so many, because they start in poor schools. some say there's a way to improve our failing school system and they're going out and doing it. meet debra kenny a mother of three who responded to the death of her husband by quitting her job and starting a school in harlem where grades have been so stellar, president bush visited the school and students have gone on and gone to yale. debra is the ceo of harlem village academies and chronicles her journey in born to rise, a story of children and teachers reaping their highest potential. >> thank you for having me. >> why are your teachers successful at getting students

to learn when so many other teachers aren't? >> we have amazing teachers at our schools but i have to tell you i think that the country is full -- full of creativity and passion is stifled by a system that doesn't allow them to really be themselves, that doesn't allow them to turn on their passion and excitement in the classroom and to show the kind of commitment that they would otherwise. so i think it's the system that's causing the problem. and part of that system is a complete and utter lack of accountability and that really depletes the sort of morale of schools. >> so you've unlearned your teachers and that allows them to shine, but with at risk students, is it possible to just have a classroom approach or is it necessary to know the whole child to know what's going on at home, the family challenges, nutrition issues, sleep, neighborhood issues? don't you have to know everything going on with them? >> you know, we have social workers and we have deans and there's a whole community.

i think the issue is that the school, fact and staff have to be able to function as i team in order to, as you say, nurture the whole child. but here's the thing. it's very hard to function as a team if there are a couple of members of that team who aren't pulling their weight or who are negative or incompetent. and the principal must have hiring and firing authority. and that's what we have. we have this freedom for teacher s in exchange for accountability. and what happens is the teachers get so excited about the freedom that they're willing to work in a culture of accountability. and then everybody pulls together as i team to nurture the children and to frankly to nurture each other, as well. >> debra, i was wondering if you could talk more about that culture of accountability you're speaking of. what are some of the specific things you do. how are your teachers evaluated and held to account? >> i'd say two things. one is, it's the principal makes

judgments. and it's not just about objective measures, not just about test scores. you know, teaching is a fundamentally human enterprise and in order for our schools to become more meaningful and in your to you touring and teach as at a higher level, we have to recognize what it means. and what that means is the prael has to make their own judgments about their team. and not have a city or a state make those judgments based solely on test scores. >> isn't there a danger if you are relying mostly on the principal's subjective opinion, that you could end up with personality conflicts leading to knob sort of scoring? >> that's exactly, you know, what the critics do claim about that idea. about you, an and this is what happens in all charter schools. so the principal has to be held equally accountability. and the principal has to be held accountable for everything, including test scores. in schools like ours, you know, the teachers are not only do

they not live in fear, they are absolutely passionate every day on fire, excited. they are really giving it their all. and the own reason is, because when there's a culture of accountability, it's true that once in awhile you have to let somebody go, but what's really happening is everybody else on the team, all of the other teachers are so excited because they get the freedom to do things the way they should feel they should be done. they're treated as professionals. they're treated with much higher level of respect and then they're able to be creative and you know, what happens is the kids feel that passion and so the students then pick up on that. and then they are then inspired to washing hard, as well. >> deb borera, there was a 2011 article in salon.com called does class size really matter. it's controversial to say no, but at least according to this column, there's substantial evidence to suggest that a

smaller class size doesn't necessarily matter in the ways that we think. i was hoping you would weigh in on that as an administrator and a school founder. >> yeah, so i think that usually, the answers to these questions are more nuanced. and so for example, i think it depends on the subject. of course, if you could dramatically reduce class size across the country from 30 to 12, it would matter. but that's not practical. if you reduce it slightly from let's say 26 to 24, not much is going to happen. what we do is, we make the classes as small as possible for reading. in reading, it matters a lot. in reading, if you are struggling reader, you need to have a class size of two or four or eight or 12. so we have the freedom as a charter to set up our schedule and our day exactly how we want, and then to adjust it as needed. so we make our class size for reading really small. whereas you may go into a math class and you may see 30 kids.

>> debra, somebody listening to this outside of new york where your school is and saying this is great, i want this in my area, wa are the keys to exporting what you're doing to somewhere else? >> well, you know, there are successful charter schools in most big cities. and but i have to say that so much of what we do and so much of what you know our teachers teach in the classroom, it's really, we standen ot shoulders of giants. we did not inventor create the majority of things that we do. and i think that there tends to be less respect for a lot of the people who came before us, and i think we have to be more careful people like debby maier and people like ted sizer. our entire pleasure reading program, our kids read 50 books a year for pleasure. and you know, there are lots of people who came before us who created these great ideas. and so, we are not the heroes who invented it.0 our teachers

are. but there are so many people who have done so much in education before we even arrived on the scene. >> well, that's auz. debra, kenny, thank you for being here. amazing work. >> thank you so much for having me. >> up next, getting legit college credits for what you already know. part three in our series "the future of success" is next. with the capital one cash rewards card you get a 50% annual bonus. and everyone likes 50% more cash -- well, except her. no! but, i'm about to change that. ♪ every little baby wants 50% more cash... ♪ phhht! fine, you try. [ strings breaking, wood splintering ]

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what if you could earn college credit for stuff you already know? sounds pretty great, right? well, our next guest says it's not just a good idea. it's an economic necessity. by 2018, more than 60% of u.s. job openings will require some kind of postsecondary education which means those without training or degrees beyond high school are getting squeezed out. but at the same time, that needed degree is getting harder and harder to afford. joining us now is kevin carrie, the director of the education policy program at the new america foundation and the author of "the assets between your ears." the latest installment in our future of success series with the washington monthly. welcome, kevin. >> hi. >> so walk me through this premise why should i get college credit for my ha life experiences, and then secondly, tell me how this is going to save our economy. >> well, we know a lot of people who lost their jobs during the last recession can't go back to the same jobs they lost.

they have to retain, upscale, they need to go back and get an education but college is really, really expensive these days as we all know. getting more expensive recall the time. and somebody who is working with children in a job they can't go move into a dorm for four years and go to colle like the traditional person. at the same time, they probably learned a lot during their career. rather than having them start from scratch and earn all those credits in a college class, what i'm saying is we ought to give them credit for the legitimate skills that they have so they only have to focus on learning what they need to learn to get that degree that will give them a good job. >> kevin, i was wondering if you could be -- get into a bit more of the specifics of that. so what sorts of things are you thinking that people would have that they would be able to get credit for and would it be, are you envisioning sort of a testing system or how would they go about actually earning credits for that? >> there are a lot of different ways to do it. there are new non-profit organizations that started up,

foos on this goal. there's a website called learning counts.org where you pay a relatively small amount of money. you go through a six-week course where you assemble a portfolio of evidence of all the different skills and knowledges you acquired during your career and on the job. they have trained professors who then evaluate that portfolio and give you legitimate college credit that you can transfer into another college. >> steve knows a lot about the lithuanian basketball team. >> tunisia. >> well, kevin, so you know, you're talking about the college degree obviously as a key to employment prospects for so many people. but i wonder, if you're talk talking about broadening the criteria for giving out college credit and changing the definition of what college credit really is. is there i an risk you redefine and maybe even devalue the college degree? >> you know, the college degree right now is something that is

in theory available to everyone but practically speaking much more available to people who come from families of means who come from.families with college educated parents. and increasingly, our economy has organized itself in such a way you have to have some kind of proof of your knowledge and skills beyond high school in order to get a good job. to the ekts textent we broaden scope of people are valuable credentials, that's nothing but a plus for a economy that demands those even more. >> yesterday 12 top universities including duke and krystal's alma mater uva joined up to offer free internet courses online so that anyone in the world can essentially audit more than 100 introductory classes but not for credit. so my question first to kevin and maybe we can bat this around the table, which matters more in today's job environment, getting the credits or earning the knowledge? so if i took 100 classes, but

don't have any credits to show for it, am i still marketable? >> frankly, the credits matter more. you can always go to the library. people learn things throughout their lives but you need proof of that knowledge in order to access certain kinds of jobs. i think it's a great thing with the university of virginia and duke and stanford and princeton and all these colleges are doing to put these free clas out there in the long run, i think we need to find a way so that the people who take those classes and succeed in them can then find some way of demonstrating their none in a way that is acceptable to employers and other colleges. >> yeah, i mean with all due respect to kevin, my life, i've seen the exact opposite. i got through three years of college and said i'm out of here and pursued my own study of knowledge over the next few years. then i got into graduate school. it has always been the knowledge that mattered much more than the credits. thank god i went into media

where they just said what can you do. well, i can write, i can do that. i can do whatever you feed me to do. i found -- >> not everyone can get a job as a media gadfly. you know? >> my job's been more than a media gadfly. >> not evyone's at lucky as we are. >> it's been the knowledge that mattered and an mind, not that hey, i spent this many hours in a classroom. >> here is the other thing when you graduated. if you are graduating now or entering the work force now, the competition is fierce and the number of jobs is few. if you are talking about someone who has, you know, what i call the peacock's tail after college degree saying yes, i did it, here is my degree. someone who -- you know, may have equivalent level of skill but doesn't have that stamp of approval, if you are an employer, you are bogey to go for the stamp of approval. >> absolutely. then what happens few years down the road when this person who went to uva shows this level of

ability and the person who didn't have an -- >> you have to get in the door first. you talk about how it has been happening here and there over the past few decades. american council for education has been certifying military and business courses and so -- this has already been happening. you are suggesting it needs to happen in a wider scope. >> that's right. jobs differ. if you are a writer you can show people what you have written and prove it. other jobs don't work that way. you do need that credential just to get into the door and human resources department. we -- there is precedent for this. if you think about the advanced place many test that many -- upper income students but more and more students across the united states, high school. all that is prior learning assessment for credit. get college credit for taking a test and we have seen very

comfortable -- with that in certain kinds of situations. let's expand that kind of high-quality verified process to other people. >> it is another really interesting idea. thanks, kevin, for joining us. >> thank you. >> tomorrow in our sears we the washington monthly, on the future of success, too important to fail. can president obama's protection bureau put america's big banks in check? coming up next, why even conservatives like me are coming around to hillary clinton, at least according to steve. steve speaks so listen up. we know a place where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta can help you get there, like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving, or engaging in other activities while asleep, without remembering it the next day,

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hillary believes if 12-year-olds should have the right to sue their parents. and hillary has compared marriage and the family as institutions to slavery and life on an indian reservation. well, speak for yourself, hillary. >> if you don't believe losing can be good for a politician, just think back to that patted buchanan speech from the 1992 republican convention. really think of anything that any republican said about hillary clinton from 1992 until 2008. for all that time, conservatives had no bugger boogie woman or boogie person or whatever the right word is, she was the radical far left feminist lawyer intent on using her husband's power. at least that's the story conservatives like pat buchanan like to tell. that universal condemnation from the right took a real toll.

long after she left the white house, it endured. everyone knew she would run for president some day. republicans kept rate on savaging her. finally announced her presidential campaign in 2007, sean hannity launched what he called stop hillary express. then something funny happened. she started losing. first in iowa and then south carolina, then a whole string of lopsided defeats. by april 2008 it became clear she was not going to be the party's candidate. barack obama was. that's when something even funnier happened. see, until then the right figured obama had no chance. so they treated him as an earnest reformer. poor fellow who was about to get torn to shreds by the ruthless clinton machine. now he became the running mate which they spent a decade an ally, hillary. for four years the empire laid off hillary clinton. it is more than that. they practice will you lionized her. treating her and husband as a symbol of bipartisan friendly

democratic tradition that obama had supposedly jumped. listen to sean hannity the other night. >> i will be honest. i will take clinton over obama any day and maybe i was wrong to start the -- stop the hillary express. i may -- i think i regret it. >> well, in the polling here really tells hillary story. you can see it on the screen. spring of 2008 when s when she was behind obama. popularity started climbing and climbing. no matter what happens to barack obama this fall, she is stepping down as secretary of state. she will have a decision to make whether or not to run for president in 2016. something tells me the decision will not be quite that easy. the minute she decides to run she will stop being the right's ally and be their enemy. that's 70% favorable score will be gone in an instant. >> interesting. just why you become cleansed in

losing and why she wouldn't run, she doesn't need the right to win. >> i think that -- the -- as i said, universal sort of score she tried from the right made her polarizing across the board. if you looked at the long term trend, most polarizing first first lady we had. equal numbers saying they liked her and didn't like her. that was always the thought before 2008. lot of people said that she could never be president because she is too polarizing. >> you will weigh in and say i have -- written a number of columns about not liking her politics and some of her personal decisions. but finding her very much a woman to admire and suggesting that she is one of the few in obama's cabinet to not have fingerprints on some of the more controversial aspects of the administration. therefore, that puts her in a very good position to emerge out of this administration. with sort of clean hands and good start. >> sounds like an endorsement to me. okay. does it for "the cycle."