thanks too much to my friends at "the cycle." it is not show me the money, it is show me the tax returns. >> we have quite a few questions there. >> the call to release the returns. >> supporter of mitt rom i? >> what's he so sensitive about? >> i'm surprised -- >> he can do well without me. >> i think he is worried about the truth. >> people carrying signs -- release your tax returns. >> releasing two years of tax returns. >> $3.5 million. >> put out the next year of tax returns as soon as the accountants have that ready. ♪ make money money >> calls from fellow republicans -- >> should he release the tax returns? >> i would. >> just get everything out in the open. >> it would be prudent to do so. >> he must have calculated there are higher costs in -- >> you always wonder whether it is better to put it out there. >> release six to ten years of past tax returns. >> if there was nothing there he would say have at it. >> be as transparent as you can

be. >> people in my party say this is a non-issue. ♪ make money money ♪ paying the price i have been here for years. we have been -- we begin with the incredible moves of mitt romney. he flips, he flops and now he flails. as the presumed republican nominee floats like a butter fly, flits like a dragon fly and stings like a firefly. fireflies don't sting? you say? no need to repeat that. no indeed but that's romney's style see. flash this little light over here so maybe you don't see the glaring sirens flashing about his own murky finances. today in the ultimate battleground of ohio, it was look here guys, the president issing a collectivist. barack obama's attempt to den grade and diminish the achievement of the individual. diminishes us all. he tries to divide america, tear

america apart. he tries to diminish those that are successful in walk walk of life or another. s is simply wrong. >> remember when romney used to talk about the president as a nice guy? well, not anymore. indeed a top romney adviser tells buzz feed that very little will be off-limits and the campaign has decided it is time to stret president, quote, this is a guy who admitted to cocaine use and sweetheart deal with his house in chicago. and was associated and worked with rod blagojevich. oh, yes. all of this has happened before in 2008. and all of this will happen again. they seem to forget mr. obama has been president for 3 1/2 years now. the american people know the guy pretty well. but the romney camp has to do something. given the -- growing calls by fellow republicans for him to release his tax returns and including governor rick perry, former governor of texas. >> i'm a big believer that no matter who you are or what office you are running for, you

should be as transparent as you can be with your tax returns and other aspects of your life. >> and here i just put rick perry out of office retroactively looking towards the future. no less venerated conservative publication than the national review now joining the likes of bill kristol, george will, ron paul and haley barbour to argue romney's position is untenable in all likelihood he won't able to maintain a position that looks secretive and if the departure from campaign conventions. the only question is whether he releases more returns now or later. we are not so sure about that. room any may just keep fliting, may just keep floating. he may just keep dancing around the thing, much like a certain highly trained olympic athlete of the equine variety as a new dnc ad suggests. >> are you following your father's example?

>> maybe. i -- you know, i don't know how many years i will release. i will take a look at what the did -- what our documents are. and i will release multiple years. i don't know how many years. and -- but i will be happy to do that. >> yeah. here's wishing for many happy returns from you, mitt. we have a bangup pan in the house. jonathan capeheart and msnbc political analyst jonathon altar. two jonathans on my left and right. >> you know the drumbeat is growing louder for mitt romney to release his tax returns. they say it is now or later. isn't romney's strategy more like never, not ever at all? >> i was going to say which jonathan is getting that question? mitt romney, whether he wants to or not, making it clear he doesn't want to. he is going on have to release his tax returns. this is something that's been a convention among presidential candidates since george romney

did it in 1967. when he released actual tax returns which had never been done before and released welfare years of tax returns. it is not like this is the first time a wealthy man has run for president. this is the first time you have had a wealthy man who steadfastly refuses to allow the american people, who he is hope willing hire him to lead them, refuses to show them how he's made his money and where his money comes from, and just to assure the american people that it was -- all his wealth, was derived legally. >> i don't think he will release them. would years, that's what john mccain did. that's when he said lee do. he will release 2010 and 2011. that will be it and he will stonewall all the rest. there is a very clear reason why. he would release more if there wasn't something to hide. the question is what is there to hide? this is where the speculation is

beginning. the most informed speculation and i should note that it is speculation by accountants and other people that know a lot about these things. is that the tax return that he most does not want to have come out is from 2009. that would reflect what happened to him in 2008. remember, a lot of wealthy people and not so wealthy people lost a ton of money in wait. and when you lose a lot of money and you are living on interest basically, you are not getting a paycheck, mitt romney doesn't get a paycheck. when you lose money, write it off your taxes. if have you good enoughing g accountants, you can effectively pay zero taxes. that would be a killer if it came out he paid not a dollar in taxes in 2009. >> right. jonathan, you know, capehart -- given what jonathan said, that's a killer because the -- optics are poor. here you are trying to convince the american people who are already taking a haircut in their economy that you understand them and you can identify with them but if you

didn't pay anything, that's going to be bad optic. >> right. keep in mind no one is saying mitt romney has done anything illegal. i want to make that clear. this is a -- political problem that he has. and as jonathan said and optics problem. if it turns out he didn't pay any taxes at all in 2009, how does he explain that to the satisfaction of the american people? >> we are not going to find that out because he will not release the 2009 taxes. that ain't going to happen. >> look, he is a good businessman. why not own up to and it say look, this is not only what he said, this is legal. i'm not doing anything immoral and i'm a businessman and this is what business people do in american society. why not own up to it and get it out of the way as opposed to let thing speculation go on? >> that's what some of the republicans are urging him to do, just get the bad news out in july and then by november, everybody will have forgotten about it. that might be the most prudent course for him to follow. it doesn't sound like that's what he will do. >> you know, one of the things i have been advocating for him do, not like he will listen to me,

is to -- emulate hillary clinton and her paint press conference from the '90s where she sat down in front of the white house press corps and answered for 66 minutes detailed questions about her and the then president clinton's finances. if mitt romney were to sit down either in a press conference or with an editorial board a series of reporters, and go through with them his financial dealings, and then saying, you know, look, this is a perfect example of why our tax code needs to be revamped, reformed, and everything i did was legal. but that doesn't exactly make it the right -- you know, the right thing to continue to do. again, i agree with jonathan. most likely not going to do that. >> look, new poll suggests 32% of conservatives feel enthusiastic about romney. if s that number going to cut it? >> well, you know what, i think that there are -- most people vote in these general elections.

enthusiasm i think is overrated as an important factor. the ability to actually bring people to the polls, so-called get out the vote operation, that's tremendously important. but just -- enthusiasm that comes up in polling, look, 130 million americans voted in 2008. something close to that will vote this time. people don't vote in -- midterm elections very often. they come out in general elections. >> you think obama has the same problem on the flip side? people have been talking about the lack of enthusiasm among african-american voters. this time aroundver slaus time. do you think his own particular issue there will be with enthusiasm, that enthusiasm gotten -- show up? >> i don't think so. i think the enthusiasm is still there. i mean, vis-a-vis mitt romney. it is still there. i think we have to look at is the enthusiasm for mitt romney -- i will get lost in may own thinking here bp. but is the anger against president obama -- is that what trumps any antipathy there is

within the republican base towards mitt romney? i would argue that when people go to the polls in november, the folks who are going in and clicking the lever for mitt romney are doing more -- doing it more so because they hate president obama than they love mitt romney. >> before the break let me ask you briefly, is mitt romney effectively and successfully turning the narrative away from tax returns to something else? >> he is having a bad month in the same way that -- barack obama had a bad june. this happens. he is campaigns go up and down. but he's plflailing around now. if he's thinking rod blagojevich is going to change the campaign he he is mistaken. >> completely mired. the olympic time-out is not going to help him. >> all right. javelin better go somewhere else. thank you both. coming up, speaker boehner cries a river over mitt romney and those tax returns. >> the american people are asking where are the jobs.

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mitt romney and his cohorts in congress want the bush tax cuts extended for everyone. not just those earning under $250,000 as p obama is offering. when democrats announced they may let the tax cuts expire in january only to turn around and vote on a cut for the middle class, well, let's just say republicans aren't taking it too well. >> i think the president's attack on the private sector in america is exactly what is wrong with this administration. doesn't give a zamn about middle class americans who are out there looking for work. what he is trying to do is

distract the american people in order to win his own re-election. >> them is fighting words. congressman peter welch is a democrat from vermont. and chief deputy whip and joins us live from capitol hill. thank you, congressman. >> thank you. >> what is your reaction when you see speaker boehner clearly frustrated, say that president obama doesn't give a damn about the middle class? >> it reminds me about the romney campaign essentially whining about the desire to have him show his tax returns. there's a rapport issue important the american people. it is about what our tax policy will be and bring down our debt. and that's where this question of whether you have tax cuts expire above $250,000 as the president advocates as democrats support or you extend them for everybody. and the reason why that's so important on the debt is that if you do what mr. boehner sing suggesting, it is going to cost us when you add in the interest costs on this about $1 trillion in addition to the debt without benefitting the economy.

there is a fundamental issue here. the americans support tax relief for middle class folks. they are working hard. making less, hanging on by their fingernails but know that the folks who are really doing well will get a tax cut of $10,000 or more on that first $250,000 but above that, you know, that's -- that's going to help us pay do you our debt. >> yeah. it certain sly a clash of priorities between democrats and republicans. you quoted a story saying this s year comes down to leverage being on the side of democrats. and that your party can't blink. explain what you mean by that, you know, not blink statement there. >> well, this is -- this is legislative tactics. i mean, bottom line, we want to preserve tax cuts for middle income folks that want them to expire at the high end. in the legislature, the power of no tends to be the most dominant power, unfortunately. mitch mcconnell had it in december of 2010. the president wanted to avoid a shutdown and the deal mcconnell got by saying no was that he got

the tax cuts, $800 billion extended for the high end and got $13 billion in -- extended on unemployment benefits. now the leverage has shifted. if the democrats do nothing, we just say no to the bluster of john boehner and others, then the -- bush tax cuts are going to all expire come january 1. that's with us doing nothing. so we come back on january 2 and put a tax cut bill on the table that provides tax relief and -- for 90% of americans or more. right up to $250,000. and -- most of us are going to want to vote for that including republicans. >> yeah. well -- another tricky dick is back here not nixon but former vice president dick cheney who made the rounds on capitol hill tuesday urging members to push for more defense spending and fight against the automatic cuts in place in a bipartisan agreement made last summer. are republicans taking the marching orders from the man that say deficits don't matter? >> you know, he had quite a

following here but it is really quite bizarre. we passed today the defense sequestered transparency act. what that did is tell the -- office of management and budget to tell us what would happen if the sequester went into effect. think about it. congress passed this sequester for half defense and half domestic discretionary bills. last august. and now we are asking what did we do? why do we do it? what will happen if what we directed be done is done. so this is, again, congress at its most feckless. we have to mauck basic decisions to get our economy going and get our tax policy righted. that means we have to put everything on the table and it has to be some entitlement reform and domestic discretionary, pentagon has to help but we must have that as part of the package. >> we thank god there is another alternative vision being promoted there p congressman welch from vermont, thank you so much, my friend. >> thank you. stay with us.

the dawe's top lines are coming up. >> eight years was awesome. and, you know, i was famous and i was powerful. >> i'm george w. bush and i approve this message. in fact, i think it is awesome. ♪ john is in the basement mixing up the medicine ♪ ♪ i'm on the pavement thinking about the government ♪ ♪ the man in the trench coat [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com tod and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense.

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living under extreme heat advisories while others face wildfires that have already scorched over 2 million acres. nbc's mike viqueira joins us live from the white house. good to see you, my (. i hope you are not drenched or burning up, either way. >> no. it is coming though. >> do we know what the white house is planning to do to help these drought stricken states halfway through long hot summer? >> you cited startling statistics there. and secretary vilsack after meeting with the president appeared at this briefing room just behind me. he had even more than -- no fewer than one-third of the counties in this nation are now under a disaster declaration with what they call secretarial disaster declaration. price of corn, multiplier effect. more than half of the food we get are the grocery store has some ingredient depends on corn or made of corn. 38%, prices up for corn since june for bausch elf corn, june 1. so a lot of threatening clouds on the horizon economically.

and as well as agriculturally. the secretary says he's already streamlined the process by which farmers can get aid. already lowered interest rates for low income farmers so they can get loans to get aid. they are urging congress to act. there is a farm bill pending in congress for quite some time expired. so they are putting pressure on congress to do that. worst drought, he says, in 25 years. >> oh, boy. that's stunning. so heading overseas, the president today spoke by telephone with russian president putin and the subject was syria. did the two leaders make any progress at all? >> well, you know, it is hard to say. it is such a tricky situation. there are some indications russia is softening its stance. this comes on the eve of a vote. the plan put in effect by kofi annan. he spoke with putin bunt wouldn't say what it was about other than that they said in very diplomatic language, always understated, they noted their differences. so russia, of course, a main syrian ally, russia on the security council can veto any

new resolutions to probably -- try to put new pressure on the assad regime and in the face of 17,000 already dead in the last year and a half, and that -- devastating bombing that killed defense minimum in damascus overnight. new urgency on that front. >> differences certainly will be observed. bulgaria bus carrying youths is bombed. killing at least six people and wounding over 30 more is really prime minister netanyahu says it was iranian attack and promise as tougher response and we learned the white house's response as well. does he have any evidence iran was directly involved? is this something he's projecting? >> it is quite -- quite possible that he has evidence. as far as we know it has not been divulged. the white house is remaining mum on that. the president and clinton put out strong statements. the president says he condemn it is barbaric attack and calls it outrageous and reyou a firms called the unshakable commitment

on behalf of the united states towards israeli security. >> mike viqueira live at the white house. thank you, my friend. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. [ female announcer ] the power to become a better investor has gone mobile. with features like scanning a barcode to get detailed stock quotes to voice recognition. e-trade leads the way in wherever, whenever investing. download the ultimate in mobile investing apps, free, at e-trade.

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approached tax necessary a very different way than the past. their opposition people look for anything they can find to distort, twist, try to make negative. >> i wish this president would learn how to be an american. >> they want on make this campaign about attacking people. >> spent his early years in hawaii smoking something. spent the next set of years in indonesia zbla romney calls obama extraordinarily foreign. >> extraordinarily foreign. >> there is an ethnic piece to this. >> to say papa john didn't build papa john pizza. >> wine be here if my mitt romney didn't change my diapers. >> republicans are scared that none of the above could take votes from mitt romney. >> do you think it is accidental that the name of the really vicious fewer breathing four-eyed whatever it is villain in this movie is -- >> modern american right has become taked to conspiracy theories. >> forger. show us the micro fill.

>> many the conspiracy is deep and has a lot of foresight. >> eight years was awesome. and, you know, i was famous and i was powerful. >> i'm george w. bush. and i approve this message. >> i have no desire for fame and powerfact, i think it is awesom. >> when rush limbaugh doing your movie reviews, you are in trouble. let's get right to your our panel. joy ann reid, msnbc contributor. kim vogel, chief investigative reporter for politico. welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> thanks. >> convention time is fast approaching and sarah palin says she is being denied her right speak. i for one protest against that because i so want on see her speak. how can that be? she was their pit bull with lipstick? i say let her speak. this is america. >> these conventions often have a feel of sort of a sprawling family reunion. with those reunions you get the crazy cousin eddie that you don't want to sort of monopolize the platform. so in this case, there are a few

folks who would lukely, you know -- >> he might be drunk, may be inappropriate but he is still showing up. >> that's right. even if the -- i do think some of these negotiations are ongoing and we will see some of these folks who may be -- won't get prime time but will nonetheless have some sort of presence at the convention like sarah palin, herman cain, newt gingrich, rick santorum. some of the folks may be mitt romney's backers would secretly prefer stay in the background. sarah palin in particular has actually already rented space down there in tampa looking at her -- leadership pact's practical election commission reports, she paid $4,500 to rent space at a mall mere the convention center site. whether they give her the invite ultimately or not, i think we will see her down there. we will see her in the headlines and on tv and run-up to the convention either day joanne, we were speaking off camera and is over itsty indicated terms about madea. it is not like she will be madea and show up here, right?

newt gingrich is on her side. here is what the one-time republican front run her to say today. >> governor palin absolutely should have a speaking slot. she moat variouses and you a rouses the entire base. >> now, newt says she arouse it is base. there would be someone at the convention somebody is excited to agree it is looking like he will pick someone boring like a rob portman as his vice presidential running mate. you know, i rarely understand a single word of the word coming out of sarah palin's mouth. however, i agree with newt gingrich on this. i think she should be will. number one, she is a woman. republicans have issues with women and need to fire up at least the women on their side. she does that. number two, the tea party which is never -- has never been excited about maerm but wimitt . who will take presentations about that crowd in tampa that will get them fired up?

all that convention is about is get out the vote, getting your base pumped up and ready on vote. mitt romney can't do that. sarah palin, discounted brand with the media, we don't follow her every word -- she is in a sale binthis at oint at walmart but still powers up that part of the base. >> g.o.t. for her means get on tv. let's talk disenfranchisement. a new report says there are roadblocks preventing millions of poor minority voters from complying with state voter i.d. laws. for instance, public offices or -- often closed. they are -- long drives from many rural residens arresidence offices. between this and the lack of proof of voter fraud, how much more does it take to destroy the myth these laws are bill upon because we know who they are targeting and who they are likely to disproportionate limb pact. >> absolutely. this is the brand centre for justice that did the numbers. they set it up to 5,000 people

may lack ability to get to where you have to get an i.d. even if it is free. you are talking about having to take a bus to place that's far away, department of motor vehicles or government office. the problem is that this -- distinction to make these laws legal, right is that you have to have an i.d. but has to be free of charge. but if it is so onerous and burdensome for you to get the i.d. and costs you money to get to where the i.d. is, i'm not sure how you argue you haven't effectively done the same thing as if you charged for the i.d. >> exactly. six of one and half dozen of another. the report looking at that time ten most restrictive states representing 127 of the 270 electoral voters needed to win, there is a strong political dimension to the laws. hasn't karl rove been pushing these since at least 2006? >> certainly pyres up the republican base. so to the extent that karl rove is an expert identifying arguments that resonating with the republican base and inspire them, motivate them, to get out the vote, or to be active in

other way, yes, it is an argument that there is a massive voter fraud going on among in demographic groups that are more inclined to support democrats. and -- we have seen it not just from karl rove but from top strategists and leaders in the republican party to the point where now it is, in fact, a -- concerted push and then stay legislatures controlled by the republicans to enact stricter rules and stay looked at in the center singled out. they are in the south and so there is an additional hurdle which is that the justice department as a result of the voting rights act has to clear some of these laws and i think that will potentially cause a fight republican could use to their benefit again to say the obama justice department is preventing us from putting up hurdles for us to enact these types of rules. >> the report highlights several examples of disenfranchisement. parts of wisconsin may be open as little as once every other month. how can wisconsin afford governor scott walker's tax cuts

but not voter registration? it doesn't add up. >> issues whether you can use student i.d. a lot of them target hispanics. if you look at what they are alleging, we immediate to look at the immigration voter database to make sure that the i will legal immigrants aren't voting, there is some epidemic of that i have never seen. in wisconsin specifically there is also that second component, idea student i.d.s are not enough either. there will be a problem that's not a voting rights restricted state i don't believe, wisconsin. i think effectively this might be the biggest x forecast tore for democrats on the downside for democrats in november. if people who aren't aware of it show up at the polls and not having fixed this problem. then find out that the i.d. they have is not enough. >> do you agree with that n. >> yes. i do think that there is -- a bit of politics on both sides here. i think the republicans exaggerate the risk of voter fraud and democrats probably do exaggerate to some extent the degree to which these laws will disenfranchise people. plays into both bases, truth is

probably somewhere in between on both counts. >> in democracy you rather wait it towards the people who have concerns so they can be protected versus the paranoia of the other side when people are undercut. we will see what happens. thank you so very much. >> pleasure. >> coming up on "hardball," much more on mitt romney sending out attack dogs. coming up, the battle for real america by way of where else -- indonesia. >> spent his early years in hawaii smoking something. spent the next set of years in indonesia and -- another set of years in indonesia and, frankly, when he came to the u.s., he worked as a community organizer which is a socialized structure. this happy couple used capital one venture miles for their "destination wedding."

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the ongoing violence in syria reached such a tense moment today president obama picked up the phone and called putin to discuss the possibility of a transition government in syria. reports indicate syrian armed forces have stepped up attacks after the first assassination of top syrian officials in the 17--month-old uprising. a bombing of a meeting of syrian security officials killed at least three. the u.n. security council has postpone ad resolution vote in an attempt to get more nations luke russia onboard with further action. today u.s. defense secretary leon pan ate had this to say about the violence. >> it is obvious that -- that what is happening in syria represents a real escalation in the fighting. this is a situation that is rapidly spinning out of control.

>> joining us now from cairo, good evening to you there, may friend. >> good evening. it was a day rocked with explosions. many are calling it as a defining moment in the 16-month conflict against the regime. it comes at a time the regime was struggling to keep control of other parts of the country. now for the fourth straight day, that violence hitting damascus. it is not only hitting damascus, it is hitting the heart of the regime. you have taken out the defense minister, deputy defense minister, another top security aide essentially does rupting the command and control structure of the military. and more importantly disrupting its ability to carry out operations outside of the capital and other parts of the country. as soon as that attack happened, the free syrian army claimed responsibility. they said that they were able to carry out the attack by planting a bomb inside that meeting room. and more importantly, as soon as that explosion happened, we saw

an offensive push by other rebel forces in other parts of the capital. they celebrated and they say that they are coming their operations in damascus to dislodge the regime from power. but psychologically, there is a very important component to this you a tack. it is siking at the heart of the regime making it difficult for the most inner circle of the president to trust each other. security forces now are going to be weary of who is among their midst and more importantly, they are going to question how somebody was able to infiltrate the most trusted inner circle of the security apparatus. without a doubt, many as we have just highlighted are considering that this is not necessarily the end but could be the beginning of the end for the battle of damascus. >> secretary panetta said they should bring maximum pressure for assad to step down. what options are available to the west? it is a complicated geeing on pit and political situation

there. >> well, there's really the diplomatic effort and more importantly, there's the on the ground effort as people here are calling it in this part of the world. on-the-ground effort is to enhance and support the free syrian army. now that really requires the united states to give a green light to countries like turkey, saudi arabia, and others to supply the free syrian army with weapons and perhaps more sophisticated means to attack the government. the concern for the u.s. is where those weapons will end up in the long run. the diplomatic front calls for stronger, perhaps even tougher sanctions under the united nations chapter 7 clause which would essentially allow international intervention or international enforcement of that resolution if the syrian government fails to abide by it. the problem here is that russia does not want to see that resolution. they do not wouldn't see a resolution that would essentially authorize or allow the united states or other international powers to enforce some kind of regime change

against the syrian government. >> all right. thank you so much. coming up, a rebuttal to mitt romney's attack to o the middle line. we want to show you some wild weather. wild storm made the dawe look like night. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! [ le announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving somethin everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company,

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. don draper once advised if you don't like what's being said then change the conversation. over at romney campaign headquarters in boston they must be getting message because all week long they have been telling us that this campaign isn't about mitt romney's tax returns. this campaign isn't about his playing fast and loose with the truth about his record at bain. this campaign is about -- well, you take a listen. >> in the past people of both

parties understood that encouraging achievement, encouraging success and people to lift themselves as high as they can, encouraging entrepreneurs, celebrating success instead of attacking it makes america strong. that's the right course for this country. this course is extraordinarily -- >> there you have it. this campaign isn't about mitt romney's record or secretiveness. it is about barack obama about not being a real american. it is about the president being foreign. so let's move past the propaganda here and bring in msnbc contributor and top economist jared bernstein. he lives -- joins us now live from washington, d.c., where he lives as well. before we get to anything else, there's one big lie that romney's folks are pedal thing week. it is the idea the president is going around saying henry ford didn't create ford motors and papa john didn't create papa john's. come on now. please tell us why are they

lying about the man in this way? >> i guess because the election season has gone from silly to ridiculous. what the president was saying actually quite important. it is something that distinguish it is two candidates in a useful way. if you think about things that are good for business and businesses can't do for themselves, public infrastructure, roads, bridge, communication systems, air travel, and if you think about the quality of the work force, obviously a big connection for public education there. those are essential parts of our public goods and entrepreneurs will tell you very forthrightly how important those are to their success. the president was saying under one candidate, under his policies, those public good was do attention. but under -- a romney presidency, based on the budgets he himself has promoted and endorsed, those kinds of public goods would be terribly underfund. >> yeah. that's -- certainly something

that we immediate to keep hammering at here. you know, i have been listening to mitt romney talk for about a year now. i always hear him say i understand the economy. i understand the economy. i still don't know what he means by that exactly. can you tell us what mitt romney says when he means what he says he understands economy? i just don't get. >> it i wrote a piece about that back in january. i said -- the way -- i said does he understand the economy like paul krugman understands the economy or art laugher understands the economy. you know. i -- i think that -- what he understands the economy, i think from the -- vantage point of a private equity investor. again, i think the president was correct in saying that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a good successful private equity investor if your goal is to enrich your shareholders. when you are in the white house, you are actually having to work quite hard to push back against some of the kinds of impacts that private equity investors have. for example, they have very, very high leverage that funds their deals and they get to

write off the -- interests they pay against their tax payments and that's why you have a guy like mitt romney pay 15g% tax rate. associated with offshoring jobs. all legitimate business practices that enrich shareholders, you know, top reaches of the income scale but really don't do anything from the -- for the middle glass not at all. >> this is something else that's intriguing to me. mitt romney like to pretend he doesn't need the government. he didn't need any help making hundreds of millions of dollars at bain capital. the government gives p/e firms a subsidy by making the debt tax deductible. let me ask you works mitt romney be such a big success if he didn't get government well pair and handouts? >> you know, i -- i can't say. i can say that -- the government has been extremely good to the private equity industry and precisely the way you mentioned.

let's just make sure we unpack this now. in private equity, they you a choir a firm, the reason they are able to make such very high returns is that they are generally not using much of their own money at all. they are using borrowed money. any interest that they pay against that debt they then deduct from their tax liability. so -- it is a huge tax boon for those investors. >> what do you think is in mitt romney's tax returns? do you think he didn't pay a bunch of money? >> i really don't know. they are starting to be some thought -- i think this may be correct, that it is not that he paid 15%, he may have paid something like 1% 2shgs%. i mean, there are years in which people with those kinds of investments, there are people that -- years of those investments that really have, you no i -- because of their capital losses have very, very tiny tax liabilities. that may be when he's trying to protect there. >> ability to lie, liability. we will talk about it. our thanks to jared bernstein for joining us here today. >> thank you. >> we will be right back. i'm barack oba

ma and i approve this message. [romney singing]: oh beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains majesty, above the fruited plain, america, america, god shed his grace on thee, and crowned thy good, with brotherhood... until i had the shingles. i have never encountered such a burning sensation... it was like a red rash. like somebody had set a bag of hot charcoal on my neck.

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nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ it is time to clear the air. who can forget this classic mitt romney moment? >> who let the dogs out? >> now a dog they say is man's best friends. but take a look admit romney's new favorite attack dog. john sununu. does he seem friendly? >> he spent his early years in hawaii smoking something. spent the next set of years in indonesia and -- another set of years in indonesia. frankly, when he came to the u.s., he worked as a community organizer which is a socialized structure. >> what is he smoking? now william shakespeare has never been a big fan of dogs. it is safe to say shakespeare would have recognized sununu's

villainous potential. it certainly was lost on sununu's own republican colleagues who once reportedly referred to him as, quote, saddam hussein of bureaucrats. in 1991 sununu was forced to give up his job as chief of staff to the first president bush. he left the white house under a loud after it was revealed he had been flying official government aircraft on personal trips to ski resorts. even to his dentist in boston. so sununu has gone from the white house to the doghouse. now to the mitt romney for president campaign. you can forget about any dog strapped to the roof of the car joke. no, sir. this dog is fully unleashed. on tuesday, just like he did 20 years ago to president bush, sununu embarrassed his boss. by saying president obama isn't a real american, this attack dog made the subtext of romney's message a little too plain. and mitt can hardly change the subject away from his taxes when his top surrogate is spending the whole day on tv