we are learning new details about the massacre in colorado early this morning. at this time, we know 12 people are dead and 38 more are wounded after a gunman opened fire at a movie theater in the denver suburb of aurora. police have 24-year-old suspect james holmes in custody. the associated press reports holmes was a medical student at the university of colorado medical school but withdrew last month. witnesses sayhe gunman burst through an exit door at the front of the theater during a midnight showing of "the dark knight rises" and started shooting into the crowd. >> he had just run into the

theaters and was just shooting people. he wasn't giving anybody a chance to get out. >> the guy walks in wearing all black, like all armor. >> the mask completely covered his face. the only thing you could see was his eyes. >> he's going to shoot the people trying to get out the door, and he did. they were trying to escape and he shot those people as well. >> there was just a young girl laying just on the concrete with two gunshot wounds on her leg and blood completely covering her stomach. >> in the past hour, police confirmed the apartment where the suspect lives appears to be rigged with explosive material. >> we are trying to determine how to disarm the flammable explosive material that's in there. that's why we're here. we could be here for hours, we could be here for days. the pictures are pretty disturbing. it looks sophisticated in terms of how it's boobytrapped. >> injured victims were sent to six area hospitals. among the injured, two u.s. air

force reservists and one navy service member. earlier today, president obama spoke about the tragedy. >> my daughters go to the movies. what if malia and sasha had been at the theater as so many of our kids do every day. michelle and i will be fortunate enough to hug our girls a little tighter tonight and i'm sure you will do the same with your children, but for those parents who may not be so lucky, we have to embrace them and let them know we will be there for them as a nation. so again, i'm so grateful that all of you are here. i am so moved by your support, but there are going to be other days for politics. this i think is a day for prayer and reflection. >> joining me today, "time"

magazine deputy washington bureau chief, michael crowley and patricia murphy, contributor to the daily beast. certainly a day of reflection. we are all still processing a lot as it comes to the details of this tragedy. michael, i want to talk about the president's comments, saying this isn't a day for politics, calling for us to -- it's a reminder of the fragility of life and calling for unity. what did you make of his comments? >> it's always a fine line because there are a lot of people who don't want to be hearing about politics, they don't want -- people want to be very careful about not exploiting a terrible tragedy like this. there is a pretty credible counterargument that says you don't turn it into a political fight where you're trying to get an advantage over your enemies and exploit it but i do think it's reasonable to have a national conversation about the context, about why these things happen, whether there are things we can do to prevent tragedies like this. if a plane crashes because you think the aircraft control

system wasn't working, you would talk about how to reform it. but guns is such a volatile loaded subject, i think someone like obama and probably mitt romney are going to step back because they know that walking into that conversation immediately just turns into a distorted politicized -- >> mitt romney is expected to make remarks in the next few minutes. we'll bring those to you live. when you talk about the impact of this on the national psyche, the president mentioned malia and sasha go to the movies together and how much of this, the impact is almost doubled because it is an experience that is so normal, so commonplace. children go to the movie theaters, parents don't think anything and harm could not come their way, then something like this happens and it sort of changes entirely our perceptions about community, about safe spaces. >> i was living in washington at the time of the sniper shootings and that was one of the moments where you did not feel safe literally going outside. you didn't feel safe going to target, because somebody had been shot in front of a target or home depot, you didn't feel

safe filling up your gas tank. something like this, even more so than a giant terrorist attack that seems very far away, even 9/11 was isolated to certain areas. when there's a shooting at a movie theater, we all do it every day, something do you with your family and it's when your defenses are the lowest possible. it really unleashes a lot of personal fear for people and then it does lead later, i think now really is not the time to have a big national conversation about guns because we don't know what happened, we don't know what was going on with this man. we just don't have a lot of details. but once those are sorted out, then you say what was the problem and what are the solutions. >> we are certainly going to get those details in the coming days and i'm sure there will be a debate over where the guns were purchased, how he got access to them. margaret, this happened 30 minutes away from columbine which a lot of folks have not put together the impact on that community is certainly profound. it brings us back to memories of the virginia tech shooting which

was the deadliest attack, 33 killed in 2007. we are now two days away from the anniversary of the tragic shooting in norway which killed over 90 people. how does the country begin to sort of process this? we know there has been an uptick in mass murders, three quarters of them happened since 1980. >> how long the list you just read. it does come back to when another one occurs, we look back and say what kind of country is this to have so many of these. but on these occasions when you don't quite know what to say, there is an element of the president and a presidential candidate is like all of us, going through the stages because you're shocked, you're sad, then you try to put it in a box, is this person insane, we try to find something and then the last one is the one we've been talking about. you don't get to doing something about it until those first three stages are processed. >> certainly, multiple stages of

processing here. nbc news white house correspondent mike viqueira joins us with more. tell us about the president's schedule has changed obviously rapidly through the course of this morning. he just gave us some remarks calling for national unity, reminding us of the fragility of life. tell us the latest. >> reporter: you also heard the president say this is not a day for politics and obviously, mitt romney and his campaign agree. there's really no doubt in hindsight as the morning unfolded and we had some questions about whether the president would go forward with his second consecutive day in florida, no one needs to be reminded that is a swing state. he campaigned there yesterday. he had two events scheduled, one in ft. myers where he did speak, obviously changing the tone, tenor and substance of his remarks, cutting them short, injecting no overt political rhetoric into it at all, obviously, as most would agree was appropriate. then he had another event that was scheduled for winter park, florida, in the orlando area. that has been cut short. the president is now aboard air force one and winging his way back to washington and the white house here, where he's

presumably going to monitor events. of course, he has spoken with the governor of colorado. he's spoken with the mayor of aurora. he's been briefed by his homeland security advisor, john brennan, who in fact informed the president at 5:26 this morning of the events that had unfolded overnight in the movie theater in aurora. the president was overnighting in west palm beach after events there, speaking to supporters. you know, obviously with the nature of a campaign event, there's been a little bit of chatter, obviously, already this morning since the president gave those remarks that the crowd was a partisan crowd, unable to contain themselves in cheering for the president. some people saw that as inappropriate. we were watching the feed leading up to the president's arrival. he was very early, and there were people exhorting the crowd not to -- at least warning the crowd this was not going to be your typical campaign event. the president calming the crowd and delivering the solemn remarks. >> mike, i remember the president's remarks after the giffords shooting.

it was almost a turning point for his presidency in terms of bringing the country together. do you expect that he'll make a bigger statement once he's back in washington? >> reporter: that, you know, that is an excellent question and something that's been asked to the folks right behind me in the press office already, and something we have been discussing among ourselves. you know, that's always possible, as more information, as people get used to this idea as margaret was just referring to. initially there's confusion, initially there's not only grief but outrage and disbelief and as it starts to sink in, then perhaps they will think it appropriate for the president to appear once again and perhaps a more solemn atmosphere. >> mike viqueira, we will try to get you to stick around but thanks for the intel. here's a live look at new hampshire, where governor mitt romney will speak in a few moments. he is expected to address the tragedy in colorado. we will have that coming up. stay with us. [ man ] ever year, sophia and i

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you're watching continuing coverage of the massacre at a movie theater in the denver suburb of aurora. here's what we know at this time. authorities say at least 12 people are dead, dozens injured after 24-year-old james holmes allegedly walked into the midnight showing of "the dark knight rises," threw down a gas canister and started shooting into the crowd. we are expecting to hear from former governor mitt romney at any moment. earlier in the day, he and his wife ann released a statement saying they were quote, deeply saddened by the senseless violence. president obama earlier made a statement in florida, where he was scheduled to make a campaign stop. the president instead took the time to relay a message of unity. >> i'm grateful to all of you

and i hope that as a consequence of today's events, as you leave here, you spend a little time thinking about the incredible blessings that god has given us. >> jeremy jojola of our affiliate kusa joins us from the scene of the suspect's apartment. we have been hearing reports that the apartment is apparently rigged elaborately with explosive devices. can you give us more information on that? >> reporter: the police department is not going into specific detail on exactly how this apartment is boobytrapped. those are the words they are using. chief oates with the aurora police department says it is quite sophisticated, the way this apartment is rigged with some sort of either explosive or incendiary device. they have told us they have taken numerous photos inside the apartment from the outside, obviously, and at this point, i think it's safe to assume that

they're looking at those photos and dissecting them, and looking at them very methodically to see how they are going to approach the inside of this building without anybody getting hurt. at the same time, there's likely some evidence inside this apartment and that's probably on the police department's minds, too, that they don't want to damage any potential evidence inside that unit. as far as the scene goes around this apartment, the apartment building itself is a very generic unassuming red brick building. we are told the suspect lived on the third floor. i spoke to numerous people around here when they were first evacuated, and nobody knew this guy, but about ten minutes ago, i spoke to this man wearing a security guard uniform here right around the corner here. he said he was a former bouncer of a bar nearby and he said that james holmes on sunday night would go to karaoke and keep to himself at this bar. the bouncer said he never really saw this guy with anybody, never saw holmes walking with anybody,

but that he would go to karaoke nights at this bar, a popular bar apparently by the people that live in this area. we're trying to learn as much as possible about this guy but it appears at this point this guy may have kept to himself. >> we are showing our audience the picture released by the university of colorado, apparently of 24-year-old suspect james holmes. jeremy, we know the other buildings in the area have been evacuated, is that correct? >> reporter: yes. when i got here about maybe ten minutes to 20 minutes after they were first evacuated, there were at least two apartment buildings, of course, the one that's at the focus of the search and then another apartment building which is of a significant size next to that. there is also some smaller homes in there that have been evacuated. there is a school nearby but the school is shut down. i think they didn't have to evacuate that. there are smaller businesses that appear to be an auto body shop, that may have been shut

down, obviously there's crime tape crisscrossing the neighborhood. this neighborhood is thick with emergency vehicles, police vehicles, police are walking up and down sidewalks and a lot of people are starting to come out as the day progresses here and just watch in awe at what is developing in their neighborhood. a lot of folks when i first got here, i spoke to these poor folks who were rattled in the middle of the night, many of them flustered. i walked up to them and they were caught off guard about exactly what happened. police came to their doors, pounding on their doors saying you got to get out now because possibly there's explosives in a unit here. i saw people who were dressed in pajamas. one woman was halfway wet, she was caught in the shower. this is quite an astonishing, phenomenal scene here in this neighborhood. >> jeremy jojola from affiliate kusa, thank you for the intel. i want to go to chief justice correspondent, pete williams, in a minute, who has new information regarding some

of the weaponry. do we have pete? pete, give us the latest, if you will. >> reporter: well, we're told he had four weapons that he took with him. now, the aurora police say he took three of them into the theater, two of them were hand guns, made by glock, a hand gun manufacturer. one was a .40 caliber weapon. i don't know what the caliber was on the other. the second was a shotgun, a remington model 870 shotgun, one of the most popular shotguns ever made. it's a single barrel pump action shotgun. then he had a smith and wesson ar 15 type weapon, somewhat people call an assault weapon. it can fire a large number of rounds and can accommodate large ammunition clips. we don't know from the authorities on the scene what sort of magazines or ammunition clips were recovered at the scene and how many rounds he had. but you know, the point is he obviously entered the theater

with a considerable amount of fire power. now, authorities are still tracing when and where these weapons were purchased. all of them, you know, he was 24, depending on when he bought them, they could all have been purchased legally. none of these weapons are banned by any law and colorado doesn't restrict the number of weapons that a person can own. so these could all have been legally purchased. >> nbc chief justice correspondent, pete williams, thanks for the latest. after the break, we discuss the broader implications of the shooting, what it means for the presidential race and the national dialogue. stay with us. [ male announcer ] while many automakers are just beginning to dabble with the idea of hybrid technology... it's already ingrained in our dna. during the golden opportunity sales event, get great values on some of our newest models. this is the pursuit of perfection.

president obama and governor romney are altering their campaign plans after the colorado massacre. the president canceled his second campaign event in florida and is on his way back to washington. governor romney, meanwhile, canceled several radio interviews and both the obama

and romney campaigns are susp d suspending television ads in colorado. the shooting is prompting prominent gun control advocates to call on the president and governor romney to get specific on their gun policies. here is what new york city mayor michael bloomberg said earlier today. >> you know, soothing words are nice but maybe it's time that the two people who want to be president of the united states stand up and tell us what they're going to do about it. because this is obviously a problem across the country. instead of the two people, president obama and governor romney talking in broad things about they want to make the world a better place, okay, tell us how. >> joining the panel now is the host of msnbc's "up with chris hayes," chris hayes. welcome to the program. always great to see you. >> good to be here. >> you know, obviously the gun issue is going to be discussed and debated a lot in the coming weeks and months, but i guess what do you make of this moment in terms of whether it is or is not an inflection point in the

debate over gun control? >> all evidence of previous mass shootings suggests that it's not, they haven't been inflection points. you know, most americans who die of guns in this country are from suicides. and we know actually as a matter of social science that the availability of a gun makes suicide fatality far more likely. doesn't make the impulse to do it more likely but it makes the actual fatality more likely. thousands of people die every year from that. that's a scourge that is something that is so far from the most horrific cinematic details of this or the details of columbine and that's something that's happening not just in the inner city. that's happening in red states, in western states and even something as basic of that as a kind of public safety regulation about what that means for fatalities in the country and the people we lose to that, just so far from what the political debate has been. basically the way the political debates get defined particularly

in washington in politics is if there's a big point of contention between the two parties, that gets covered as a debate. the fact of the matter is, since 2000, the democratic party at the national level has almost wholly retreated from the issue. they don't talk about it, they don't try to move through legislation. they have decided it's not an issue. as long as both parties are essentially in agreement on that, as long as the democratic party decides it's not an issue, it's very hard to put it at the center of the agenda. >> i don't think the democrats have decided it's not an issue. i think the democratic party has decided it's not a fight they want to have. it's not worth everything else that they want to go after. the nra is so strong and there have been so many moderate democrats elected from states where the nra is very popular, where guns are used recreationally, utah, north carolina, virginia. democrats in those states do not vote for gun control measures and as somebody who covers congress, gun control measures don't move. this is not a topic that is ever discussed. it's legislation that's rarely introduced.

it certainly rarely passes. even when a member of congress was shot at her own congressional event -- >> there was no movement. >> nothing. >> i want to bring in, joining us from boston is dan gross, the president of the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. thanks for joining us. piggybacking on what was just said, it's obviously worth noting that president obama signed laws allowing firearms into national parks and on to trains, on amtrak. those were tucked into larger bills. this moment in terms of our national conversation about gun control, what do you make of it? >> i don't think there's going to be any one moment that's going to change the national dialogue. i think the national dialogue is going to change when the american people get involved and demand change. that's really what we're focused on now at the brady campaign. we have a petition for the american public to sign, to demand accountability from our leaders on this issue. otherwise, it's just going to be business as usual. the gun lobby is going to wield far too much power over our politicians.

this myth that they control the fate of elections is going to be perpetuated and we need to inspire our elected officials to do the right thing. i agree completely with what mayor bloomberg said. his expressions of sympathy are very nice and very important, but i would posit that it is the role of the person who wants to be president of the united states to do more, to lead, to define the dialogue, to talk about the things that we actually can do to prevent these tragedies, to protect the fragility of life, as president obama put it this morning. >> the leadership question is certainly one that is going to be batted around in the coming days. we are of course waiting for mitt romney to speak. there is going to be a priest that will open up his address and then a prayer and then senator kelly ayotte from new hampshire will speak, then mitt romney will take the stage. michael, i want to play some sound. mitt romney speaking in front of the nra on april 14th this year. i actually don't have that piece of sound. but he talked at some length about a president who will

enforce current laws and not create new ones that serve to burden lawful gun owners. the question is, you know, as he addresses the american audience at this time of crisis, at this time of national mourning, what does he need to say? >> well, i don't think he's going to say anything particularly new or different. i think that to the extent that people want to hear anything right now that's policy related, they probably want to hear a little bit more on the enforcement side, even though i agree, i don't think anything is going to happen. i think romney is in a tricky position. if there's a wrong moment to say we need -- if this is the wrong moment to say we need more enforcement, certainly the wrong moment to say we have to keep the democrats away from our guns. so i think he's going to take a very neutral stance. i do think this will probably remind some people about romney's record in massachusetts, which was more liberal on a bunch of issues and as i recall, gun control was one of them. so there will probably be a conversation about that. that's another reason why this will be an uncomfortable subject for him.

fundamentally, i think for all these people, i was thinking about this having said earlier i don't think it's inappropriate to have a public policy debate about what should be done. i think it would be great if everybody came out and was pretty forceful about their opinions but i do think we want to know a little more about exactly what happened, where the weapons came from, how it interfaces with existing laws. i do think it's responsible for the politicians to want to take a little time to get the facts before they start popping off. i'm sort of chastising myself for saying we should hear more of that now -- >> we do a lot of self-flagellation on this show. margaret, we were talking during break and you think this could be actually an important and good moment for mitt romney, setting aside the debate over guns, but just as a candidate, as sort of a character on the national stage, an opportunity for him to humanize himself. >> he's a little late to his own event and he may be trying to summon up what he doesn't naturally have, which is a human reaction to things, because he usually, you know, he's a very tamped down candidate.

during the primaries, you remember, i think and because he has this massachusetts record of being a little bit to the center and left of the nra, which next to grover norquist, by the way, is the most powerful institution in our political life, he was at pains to say he shot varmints, he went hunting, he wanted to get in with that group of people and tried to stay away from the very controversial gun control part of it. so when we do get to the fourth stage after the shock, the sadness, let's try to put this killer in some kind of context so when we send our kids to the movies, we aren't hugging them extra tight because we're afraid some crazy man is going to be there, that stage after then, the political one, i think could be really hard for governor romney. >> i do think the healing part of this is going to be a very long process and inevitably, the

debate over sort of the political side, the policy side, is going to have to happen sort of in parallel. we are waiting for governor romney to take the stage. we will have more on gun control and the latest from the aurora massacre when we return. we'll also be joined by former governor ed rendell. that's all coming up next. stay with us. >> screaming, yelling. i heard a lot of just a lot of moaning, too. it was terrifying. >> her and her boyfriend dropped to the floor and just kind of started to crawl to see if they could get away. when she turned around, all she saw was the guy slowly making his way up the stairs and just firing. >> it was just the most tragic thing i've ever seen. lot of ka? no. whoooa i'm in a river. what are some good kayaking words? like...rapids? look, i'm going through the rapids.

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shooting does raise questions about our nation's gun control laws. this is the worst shooting in colorado since 13 people died in the 1999 massacre at columbine high school and the deadliest shooting in the u.s. since 32 people died at virginia tech in 2007. joining us from philadelphia, nbc news political analyst, former pennsylvania governor, ed rendell. governor, always great to see you. governor, in the previous segment we were talking about leadership on gun control and sort of where the national dialogue is at, and patricia murphy during break was talking about the democrats and their position. they're getting graded as from the nra. really, there's bipartisan consensus on very few things in washington right now, but not touching the issue of guns seems to be one of those few things both parties come together. what do you make of this moment as far as furthering the debate and the discourse around guns, gun control and the roles guns plays in our society? >> the sad part is the only time we discuss any reasonable attempt to limit the sale and

distribution of guns is after tragedies like this. then a few days later, we all forget about it and nobody has the guts to do anything that's concrete. it's ridiculous because the nra's power is overinflated. i was for gun control from the day that i ran for office in pennsylvania. we have the second highest number of nra members of any state in the union, behind only texas, and i won three statewide elections by 10%, 12% and 21% margins so the nra, our politicians don't read polls. after gabby giffords there was a poll on the lautenberg-mccarthy bill which would limit magazine clips to only 11 bullets. remember laughner had a 33 bullet clip which allowed him to fire 27 bullets without reloading and 71% of americans, including more than half of the republicans polled were for it. yes it never got out of committee because we're terrified of the nra.

we democrats are as bad as the republicans. everyone is scared of the nra. number one, there are some things worth losing for in politics and to be able to prevent carnage like this is worth losing for. what the congress ought to do, again, i apologize for talking about this in the wake of all this, but it is important. the congress should reinstate the assault weapons ban. number one, no citizen should be allowed to have an assault rifle. that's clear. there's no reason, no hunter needs it, no citizen needs it to protect their home. citizens are allowed to have firearms, shotguns, no assault weapons. number two, we ought to limit the number of bullets that are allowed to be sold in a clip that goes into an automatic or semi-automatic weapon. had we done that in loughner's case, people would have been saved from serious bodily injury. we need leadership and we need someone to stand up and say enough is enough. again, i agree with dan gross.

we don't know where the guns came from but it doesn't matter where the assault rifle came from. citizens shouldn't have assault rifles. >> to your point, the assault weapons ban of course expired in 2004, was not renewed -- >> an act of cowardice by the congress. >> in 2005, the protection of lawful commerce and arms act gave the gun industry immunity from most tort liability and in 2009, the supreme court affirmed the rights to carry guns for self-defense, striking down washington, d.c.'s ban on hand guns. margaret carlson has a question for you. >> so as a very successful politician from a hunting state, how did you manage to neutralize the nra and get elected so many times and get re-elected as governor? >> because people assume that every nra member believes in everything that the nra stands for. they don't. they don't. a lot of people do it because they want the magazine. they want the magazine.

they want the discounts. they don't believe, necessarily. one law that limits hand guns purchases to one a month which means your law-abiding citizens can buy 12 a year, who in god's name would need more than 12 hand guns a year? but it stops that straw purchaser who walks into every gun store in cleveland and in pittsburgh and in erie and buys 15 semi-automatic smith and wesson pistols. everyone knows what he's going to do with them. he's going to sell them to felons and juveniles who can't buy guns lawfully, he will make 200% profit. why not stop him? why not stop him? >> governor, i want to bring in dan gross, president of the brady campaign, who is still with us. dan, there are several pieces of gun control legislation that have been introduced but not addressed in congress. among them, a ban on high capacity ammunition magazines that the governor mentioned, requiring background checks on all gun sales, requiring background checks on all gun sales at gun shows, a ban on gun

smuggling, a ban on people on the terrorist watch list from purchasing guns and explosives, all pending, not discussed. >> who could be against the last one? >> or any of them, for that matter. >> and i think, you know, that background checks is i think the really fertile ground where every gun owner except for the really radical extreme, the black helicopters are coming gun owners, agree that a convicted felon shouldn't be able to walk into a gun show or any commercial establishment in our country and be able to purchase a gun. the average american doesn't realize that that's far too often the case. they don't think a terrorist should be able to do that, a convicted domestic abuser, somebody found to be dangerously mentally ill. so i think our job at brady is first of all to highlight the fact that that problem really exists in our country and then to genuinely engage, the part that the governor and by the way, governor, god bless you. if this whole country, if all our elected officials showed the

leadership that you did, we wouldn't have a problem in our nation. and you know, we need to get the american people the voice, the outrage of the american people, that's what the governor was talking about, that's the missing ingredient. that's what brady's focused on. the public should go to brady campaign.org and sign our petition to tell our elected officials if you don't agree that a convicted felon, a convicted domestic abuser, a terrorist, somebody found to be dangerously mentally ill should not be able to buy, own or carry a gun in our country, i'm not going to vote for you. until we start coalescing the outrage of the american public, unfortunately, it's going to be business as usual and unfortunately, the nra, the gun lobby is going to be able to perpetuate the myth that the governor was describing in terms of this influence that it's been far too easy for them to pretend that they have but that the governor demonstrated they really don't. >> dan, i actually think the ban on high capacity magazines is also a no-brainer. i will draw everyone's attention to an op-ed in "usa today"

which was published a year ago after the giffords shooting which said notwithstanding the worn-out slogan that guns don't kill people do, guns do make it easier for people to commit murder and semi-automatic guns like the tucson assailant's out of the box glock make it easier to commit mass murder. the op-ed points out that three-quarters of the deadliest mass murders in the u.s. have occurred since 1980, most of which are involving these high capacity firearms. >> what strikes me also in terms of the details that we're getting out of colorado, there's these tear gas canisters which are legal. okay, let's just forget about guns for a second. why do we sell tear gas canisters to people? what possible civilian use is this? explosives. we all have a moral and legal intuition that explosives are something we should regulate because they are extremely dangerous, right? the problems that this category of gun partly because it falls under arms which is mentioned specifically in the united states constitution, has some kind of symbolic significance distinct from a whole variety of other things we think are

extremely dangerous as a matter of routine course, regulate as a democratic society. >> great point. that's a great point. and one thing that the second amendment rights people don't seem to realize is that all of our amendments, all of our rights, have common sense limitations. free speech doesn't allow you to go into a movie theater and start crying "fire." that's clearly, there's a supreme court case on that. no one would contend a citizen should be allowed to buy a nuclear rocket launcher, obviously. so it's just a question of where the line is drawn. we should start drawing it with common sense. no citizen, no hunter, needs a semi-automatic rifle, an uzi, m-16. there's no need for that. you don't need to shoot a deer 17 times to bring it down. it's just like when the debate was over whether we could ban

armor-piercing bullets that pierced bulletproof vests. someone said i never saw a moose in the forest with a bulletproof vest on. it's ridiculous. we should start using common sense. >> i do want to say i think what's happening is sort of a confluence of almost a perfect storm insofar as our regulations around guns or weaponry or explosives are getting more lax in terms of legislation but there's a celebration and culture of violence. this is a midnight movie and there were children in the audience seeing what is a very violent movie and i think there is a glorification of violence and -- >> hey, alex, you couldn't be more right. you're too young to remember but when i was growing up, the good guys, hopalong cassidy, the lone ranger, they never killed anybody. they disarmed people and sent them to jail. they never killed anybody. now in a movie or in one of those videos, the hero kills 48 people before the credits are done. >> and look at how poignantly that's reflected in some of the

eyewitness testimony you hear from this. there were folks in that theater who thought that it was part of the movie. so it was -- that movie was a glorification of the very violence that wound up manifesting itself in all too real a way. >> but the heroes now are violent. >> yeah. again, we know the matrix was influential in columbine. certainly not implicating pop culture here as the root of all evil, but i do think there's something to be said about these parallel tracks converging and the sense of disenfranchisement, isolation. we don't know the psychological profile of the suspected shooter but there is a threat of alienation that has run through a lot of these massacres that have happened, especially among young people lately. i think that that's probably worth examining. >> i think it's worth examining. let me just say i think it's worth examining but not at the expense of looking at the role that the gun plays. the typical art when these tragedies happen is that we start by expressing sympathy, the stages that were talked

about before, and then we say now's not the time to talk about politics, now's not the time to talk about the role of guns, and then when it does become that time we're talking about 20 different things, none of them as tangible as guns. >> mitt romney is speaking now at an event in new hampshire. let's take a listen. >> -- joining with the senator and me on this very sad day and thank you to father christian for beginning this gathering with a word of prayer. our hearts break with the sadness of this unspeakable tragedy. ann and i join the president and first lady and all americans in offering our deepest condolences for those whose lives were shattered in a few moments, a few moments of evil, in colorado. i stand before you today not as a man running for office but as a father and grandfather, a

husband, an american. this is a time for each of us to look into our hearts and remember how much we love one another and how much we love and how much we care for our great country. there's so much love and goodness in the heart of america. in the coming days, we'll surely learn more about the lives that have been lost and the families that have been harmed by this hateful act. we'll come to know more about the talents and the gifts that each victim possessed and we'll come to understand the hope and the opportunity that's been lost. our hearts break for the victims and their families. we pray that the wounded will recover and that those who are grieving will know the nearness of god. today we feel not only a sense of grief, but perhaps also of helplessness, but there is something we can do.

we can offer comfort to someone near us who is suffering and we can mourn with those who mourn in colorado. this morning, colorado lost youthful voices which would have brightened their homes, enriched their schools and brought joy to their families. our prayers that the comforter might bring the peace to their souls that surpasses our understanding. the apostle paul explained blessed be god who comforteth us in all our tribulations that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble. what we do know is how evil is overcome. we're seeing that greater power today in the goodness and compassion of a wounded community. grieving and worried families in aurora are surrounded with love today and not just by those who are with them and holding them in their arms. they can also know that they are being lifted up in prayer by

people in every part of our great nation. now and in the hard days to come, may every one of them feel the sympathy of our whole nation and the comfort of a living god. there will be justice for those responsible but that's another matter for another day. today is a moment to grieve and to remember, to reach out and to help, to appreciate our blessings in life. each one of us will hold our kids a little closer, linger a bit longer with a colleague or a neighbor, reach out to a family member or friend. we'll all spend a little less time thinking about the worries of our day and more time wondering about how to help those who are in need of compassion most. the answer is that we can come together. we will show our fellow citizens the good heart of the america we know and love. god bless you for being here and sharing together this moment of

sorrow and god bless the united states of america. thank you. >> that was former governor mitt romney weighing in on the massacre in aurora, colorado today. he reminded the country that there is a lot of love in the united states, asked us all to remember how much love we have for one another. michael crowley, what did you make of that? >> i think it was about what i expected. it was appropriate. there were no surprises. he doesn't want to touch the policy component of this yet and i think that's fine and appropriate. you know, i don't want to get into theater criticism with it. it was what it was. it was probably about what he should have said and i don't fault him right now as we're still absorbing this and learning the facts for not going any farther. the question is what will come next as we start to dig into why exactly this happened. one quick thing i would like to add, mental health is a running theme through a lot of these shootings. i will be very interested to know what were the warning signs, did he slip through the safety nets at all. that was the case in the giffords shooting, the virginia tech shooting. >> actually, we can go to nbc's

jay gray. we are getting vague sketches of the presumed attacker. can you give us a little more information? what's the latest? >> reporter: what we do know is that this 24-year-old james holmes apparently withdrew from medical school at the university of colorado at denver just about a month ago. he also recently applied for an apartment and as part of that application, he was asked to describe himself. he said he was easygoing. he was not a member of the military according to sources with the military and no indication of any previous criminal record, neither here in colorado or in san diego, where he apparently grew up. a marker and a reminder of just how tragic things are here right now, the coroner's van just showed up. they are beginning to do their work at the theater. this is going to be a slow, a very tedious investigation, one that's going to take a very long time. not only here at the theater but also at the suspect's apartment where they are working very

carefully to try and disarm what they call, i want to get this straight, very sophisticated explosives. a boobytrap that we are told the suspect volunteered to police when he was arrested. he really gave up without a fight, we are told, and told them yeah, i have explosives in that apartment and you are going to need to disarm those. >> two questions for you. do we know what kind of medicine he was studying at the university of colorado? >> reporter: yeah, the only clue at this point is from the school, they say neuroscience. he was involved in the study of neuroscience. had only been there since 2011 so he was just in the initial stages of those studies. that's what we know as far as his schooling at that point. but again, not described by anybody who at this point has known him and has talked as somebody that they would suspect of something so horrific as this. again, described himself as easygoing. >> certainly again, we're putting the pieces together on all of this, someone who is getting a graduate degree in

neuroscience, you talk about the rigging of the apartment. he seems like he was fairly intelligent, capable student. do we know anything else about his academic record? >> reporter: i don't at this point. we are still trying to find out about that. but i think you're absolutely right when you talk about what he's done as far as how technical things are. police sources, the fbi obviously on the ground here as well, saying that yeah, they are taking this very seriously and say they could be at his apartment for hours or days, trying to disarm the explosives there. it looks like it's a very tough chore they are facing right now. >> i want to go back to our panel on this. chris and patricia, when we talk about sort of the alienation piece that michael was talking about, we're beginning to get a portrait of a young man who clearly was very troubled. how we sort of square these two things, someone who is both an academic getting -- a student, not a societal misanthrope, yet

capable of this kind of dark act and just a few miles from where historically terrible event happened in columbine. >> we have been talking about all these larger questions, policy, politics. but there is an individual responsibility for people in communities to reach out to people in a way that actually mitt romney said to help those in need of compassion is somebody slipping through the cracks, is this a friend of yours who has disappeared and gone off the radar, what is sort of our basic individual responsibility to other people who are hurting and isolated. so many teams we've seen this year who have bullied or killed themselves, in some cases is going to take somebody else's life. there's a piece for us personally to look at ourselves and see what role can we play to prevent something like this or something on a smaller scale, but just what are we doing, if we're isolating ourselves and not helping other people in this process. >> we don't know if he was

troubled. we assumed he was troubled. >> now we think he's troubled. >> exactly. but i'm saying, we know literally nothing. >> we don't know if there were warning signs. >> exactly. literally nothing about this guy. >> you wouldn't reach out to a 24-year-old medical student, you know. >> we do not know. >> certainly the theme, i think the take-away if there is a take-away from a moment like this, and i think both the president and governor romney echoed this, is for us to come together and it sounds almost to talk about love in a time of tragedy in some ways seems cliche but i think it is a very important point, one that is often lost not only in the news cycle but in the day-to-day dialogue, because loneliness is a very big part of the 21st century. i think that that gives rise to a lot. thanks again to nbc's jay gray for giving us the latest. thanks also of course to our panel, michael crowley, margaret carlson, patricia murphy, chris hayes, dan gross in boston and governor ed rendell in philadelphia. thanks for your time.

that does it for me today. stay with msnbc and nbc news for all the latest on the tragic shooting in colorado. ann curry anchors a special edition of "dateline" at 9:00 p.m. aurora police are expected to hold a news conference at 1:30 eastern. "andrea mitchell reports" has continuing coverage next. stay with us. this is $100,000.

we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back.

they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. breaking right now on "andrea mitchell reports" massacre at the mall. at least 50 people, 12 confirmed dead, 50 injured after a lone gunman opens fire inside a packed theater for the midnight premiere of the new "batman" movie in aurora, colorado just outside denver. >> people running out of the theater, they're shot. >> we have gas masks available? >> bring gas masks. >> we saw gas and sparks and