59 more were wounded. and we are forced to ask why does this keep happening? does this nation not have the will to stop this cycle? will we just go for a few days of words and go back until the next tragedy? even if we don't have the right solutions, we must start asking the right questions. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. god bless the families of all of those that lost a loved one or was wounded. let us pray for all of them. go evening, i'm ron reagan in seattle filling in for chris matthews. leading off tonight, tragedy in colorado.

it happens all too often and the names have become so familiar. jonesboro, arkansas, virginia tech, columbine, and now aurora, colorado. it happened not far from columbine high school where a sold out crowd had gathered in theater nine for the midnight opening of the batman movie "the dark knight rises." a man named james holmes walked through a door with a bulletproof vest, a gas mask, a throat protector, a groin protector and black gloves. police say he was also carrying three weapons. a rifle, shotgun and a handgun. witnesses say holmes calmly set off some kind of device and began firing randomly and terrified moviegoers. cell phone images captured the

panicked scene as people desperately tried to flee the theater in some cases helping victims get out. in other cases simply running for their lives. in the end, police say 71 people were shot and at least 12 have been killed. james holmes was arrested without a struggle at his car just outside the theater. in addition, police say holmes warned he had rigged his apartment with explosives and in fact, police say holmes' apartment has been booby-trapped with sophisticated explosives and trip wires. joining me now from aurora, colorado, is chris jansing. thanks for joining us on this difficult day. what is the latest there from aurora, colorado? >> we are learning more and more about the situation. [ no audio ] .

>> thank you, chris jansing. obviously a little technical problem there. earlier tonight i had a chance to speak with jennifer seeger who was in that movie theater when gunfire erupted. i asked her to describe what happened. >> yeah. at the point where he took his first fire into the ceiling, i knew those were real bullets. he wasn't messing around. it was terrifying. i go in there to watch a movie and i come out with blood on me and dead bodies all around me. and gun shots. all by one man. you know what i mean? it's absolutely ludicrous to me how somebody could do that to anyone. it was terrifying. i -- you know -- >> how close were -- generally how close were you? >> i was the second row to the front. >> and he was standing there at

the front of the theater? >> yes, sir. he was to my right. yeah. >> what was the expression on his face? what was his demeanor? >> yeah. i could do that for you. he didn't have an expression on his face because he had a gas mask on. he was in full riot gear. he looked like he was from a s.w.a.t. team. a vest on, belt, padding, rifle in his hands. he was four or five feet away from me. the gentleman -- he's not a gentleman, but he put a gun in my face, and i at that point didn't know what to do. he stood, you know, 6' tall, 185 pounds with a gun in my face three feet away from you. >> he actually put the gun to your face? he actually held the barrel of the gun to your face. but he didn't shoot you obviously. >> no, he was three feet away from me. he held it in my direction towards my face.

he didn't shoot me because i moved out of the way quick enough where i could duck for cover and pull myself underneath the chair and hide with my best friend. you know, try to tuck ourselves underneath the chairs and hide and stay still. at that point i told everybody to just stay calm and wait for him to go up the stairs. when had did that, crawl as fast as you could to the other end b of the aisle and try to make a run for that as far as that goes. when they did that -- >> how -- >> yeah. >> as you were hiding there, i didn't want to interrupt you, but as you were hiding there, were you aware other people were being shot and killed around you? >> yes. you know, when i was laying on the ground waiting for him to move up the stairs, he had missed me and went on to other people. his objective was to kill as many people as possible. that was very obvious. he shot people behind me. and the gun shots and the shells were rolling down and touching my face.

and my best friend's legs. they were still warm and you could smell the gunpowder and you could hear the people moaning in the back that got shot. and as that happens, he just continued to walk up the stairs and kill people in each ale walking in the aisle pushing people out. anybody that tried to flee he would shoot at that point. >> how long did this go on? can you estimate how many minutes this extended? >> yeah. it probably -- you know, it seemed like a lifetime. if i had to put a guess on it, 15 minutes, 20 at the most. but literally i think 10, 15 minutes. >> that's a long time for this, though. >> right. and just enough time for him to be able to get what he planned to do done before anybody could get in there. you know, there were people in buildings down the street. the cops were there fast. he got it done so quickly there was nothing we could do about it. >> did he say anything at all while this was going on? >> no. he never said a word. all he did was come in the word

and throw the gas cannister. shoot the ceiling then point the gun at me and, you know, just massacring people left and right. >> how long do you think it was before the people generally in the theater understood this isn't some sort of publicity stunt for a movie, this is the real thing? >> i think it was probably, you know -- i mean, people started noticing about a minute or two into it after -- with the tear gas people were still thinking that it was, you know, a prank or whatever. but the second he lifted up the gun and shot it and people knew the sound of a real gun and saw the real bullets, that was there. that only took two minutes to realize. it went from calm and collective to entertaining to massive amounts of people being shot. it was just too short of a time frame to be able to adjust. >> that was jennifer seeger, eyewitness to the movie theater shooting in aurora, colorado. let's check back in with msnbc's

chris jansing who is in aurora. can you hear me okay now? >> i can. thank you so much, ron. i just want to add to what your guest had to say. because you could just imagine you're in this dark theater and while people in there when this started thought it was somehow part of the movie because he comes in and is in full tactical battle gear. he had ballistic vests, throat and groin protecters, a gas mask, a black tactical gloves. and he was carrying an assault rifle, a .40 caliber glock. early indications were he fired all of his weapons. then when he was later taken into custody, in his car police say they found another glock. the most recent was purchased just two weeks ago. all of them purchased in just the last two months. about the timeline, ron, of when he decided he was going to drop out of a graduate program in neuroscience at the local

university. >> i understand he also had dyed his hair orange and told somebody he was going as the joker or something like that having to do with the batman movie. >> yeah. the nemesis of batman. orange/red hair and he apparently said to police, and he hasn't said much, that he was indeed the joker. people said that in fact he was acting like he was enjoying it. in many ways he seemed very calm. so the question is why? why did he do this? we don't have any answers to that right now. we also don't have any answers as to why he booby-trapped his apartment. these wires attached to one liter bottles that are some type of explosive. there's a lot of evidence in there. all the buildings in that apartment complex have been evacuated. but they're still trying to figure out, first of all, is it live? is it dangerous?

and how do they get it out of there without detonating? that's a difficult situation they're dealing with right now at his apartment. >> chris, is there any word of the victims of the shooting. we heard 12 dead, 71 wounded. any more word on any of those wounded could be in critical condition? >> last word i had was 71 total, so 12 dead, 59 wounded. the ten that were still inside the theater, we are told in the last hour their bodies have been brought out or have begun to be brought out. the other victims are at six different hospitals. some of them in critical condition. some of them have already been released. the information that's coming out in the aftermath of this as is often the case can sometimes be sketchy. it can be unreliable. and sometimes it can be delayed. this has been horrific for people trying to get information about were their loved ones in that theater, were they hurt,

were they killed. this has also been kind of a social media tragedy because what we've seen here, ron, is that a lot of people have been posting on facebook. here i am. i'm okay. or have you seen this person. i think they were in the theater. and so there's been a lot of back and forth on twitter and facebook. >> chris jansing in aurora, colorado. thank you so much, chris. joining us now is pete williams. pete, thanks for joining us. the question a lot of people will be asking of course is where did this individual get all those guns? what do we know about that right now? >> we know where he bought them. he bought them at three gun stores in the denver area. one in denver, one in aurora, and one in a nearby community of thornton. officials say he started buying them in may and bought the most recent one just two weeks ago. these are the weapons he had.

two .40 caliber glock. a rumming ton single barrel shot gun. probably the most widely sold shot gun in america. and the gun police believe he fired the most that's the smith & wesson ar-rifle. all were purchased legally. there was nothing in his background that would disqualify him from buying weapons. he had no criminal record. his only run in with the law in colorado was a speeding ticket in aurora a year ago. so there's nothing that would have disqualified him from buying these guns. and it's legal to buy them all in colorado. as a matter of fact, it's legal to buy the shot gun and the handgun nationwide. the only restriction is on the rifle, the ar-15 type rifle. you can't buy them in five

states. new york, new jersey, connecticut, massachusetts, and california as well. but they're widely sold throughout the west and the south where there are many gun enthusiasts. >> the ar-15 might be described as an assault-type rifle, as i understand it. it is not a fully automatic weapon. it is semiautomatic but it is modeled after a military assault rifle, i believe. >> that's right. if you go back to the picture of it a second that we've shown a couple of times, you see the curved thing out of the rifle near the grip, that's the magazine that holds the rounds. that can accommodate a high capacity magazine. and those, of course, are controversial because they hold too too many. >> and a semiautomatic weapon can fire many bullets in a short amount of time. thank you very much pete williams. appreciate it. tonight the country is watching as this tragedy unfolds in

colorado. send your thoughts and condolences by sending a message on twitter. and stay with msnbc news for continuing coverage of this breaking story. there will be a special edition of "dateline" tonight at 9/8 central. and a special hosted by chris jansing. we'll be right back. >> we talked to people on scene here. they have a look of grave concern on their face. when we first got here someone said it's not safe for you to be here. there are explosives here. we've since inquired more about that and we're told they are investigating whether or not there are explosives here. [ engine revving ] ♪ hey, hey, hey ♪ [ tires screech ] [ male announcer ] with fuel economy that's best in class and better acceleration than camry and accord, you'll wish you had the road to yourself.

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california has the strongest gun control laws followed by new jersey, massachusetts, new york, and connecticut. on the other end of the scale, arizona, utah, and alaska all get zeros. colorado ranks relatively low on the scale with a 15 rating. we'll be right back. let's compare. germ party! eww! now the colgate total mouth. nice! [ female announcer ] colgate total fights 90% more plaque germs. i'm in. [ female announcer ] colgate total. less germs. healthier mouth. [ female announcer ] colgate total. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com.

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whatever weapon he had, you know, that was the time when we realized we need to run, we need to run. we just ran down the stairs and we just ran out the theater. >> welcome back to "hardball." we're learning more about the alleged shooter, james holmes, who opened fire early this morning in a colorado movie theatre. that theater stands less than 20 miles from the site of another horrific massacre, the 1999 mass shooting at columbine high school in littleton, colorado. joining me now the dave cullen, who spent ten years reporting on his book "columbine" and clint

van zandt former fbi profiler. thank you, gentlemen, both for joining me. dave, there must be an awful sense of deja vu here. when you first heard the news out of aurora, did you flash back to columbine? >> yeah, i did. i flashed back to the morning after which was more painful than the day it happened to me. the kids there had changed overnight and they had -- they had sort of frozen up emotionally. nobody was crying. there were sort of blank stares on their faces and they were aware of this. they understood their emotions had sort of been shut off overnight. that was the scariest part for me. that's when it actually -- i hope this is okay to say. for me that's where it changed personally from being distraught about the people that died. at that point i was more -- i guess i was worried for the 2,000 kids who were still alive

and worrying what was going to happen to their lives. obviously the dead is terrible and some ways worse, but you have to think about those who are still alive. and that was kind of overwhelming, actually. >> i had that thought when i was talking with jennifer seeger, one of the eyewitnesses just a moment ago, dave. i was thinking she's going to suffer some sort of post-traumatic stress here, i would think. is that what the witnesses can expect at this point? >> well, luckily not all of them. chris probably knows more of the figures than i have. a minority of people actually suffer from something of post-traumatic stress disorder. some have symptoms or some difficulty, but most people get over it. and i -- you know, they're going to have a rough couple months or years, don't get me wrong. but i was really kind of surprised. when columbine first happened, it was the kids who seemed most shattered by it and really,

really in bad shape. and the adults for the most part were handling it better. over the years, that sort of -- they gradually traded places. where the parents got a little better and the adults but not that much and the kids were more resilient and really recovered better over time. but it took many -- i'm talking five to ten years. >> yeah. clint, you and i have had conversations after events like this before, and they're never easy to -- you know, never an easy conversation to have. we don't know everything about this shooter, obviously, yet. we don't know what his motives were or what he says they will be. we do know some things about him. he prepared, for instance. this wasn't a spur of the moment thing. what does that tell us about him? >> well, it tells -- as far as i'm concerned, ron, he's responsible for his actions. this wasn't just a psychotic break overnight. this is someone as pete williams just told us, who at least

bought these four weapons over the last couple of months. and it's interesting. ar-15 rifles, carried by police and fbi. 12 gauge 870 shotguns carried by police and fbi. he wears a black tactical uniform, a bulletproof vest, a ballistic helmet, ballistic l leggin leggings. this is a wannabe. this is someone that wanted to look like law enforcement, look like the military. when we say why did he tell law enforcement that he had his apartment booby-trapped? this guy may have -- terrible as it is -- he may have had some special fantasy relationship in his mind with law enforcement. he dressed like them, he carried guns like them, and even though he was capable of shooting 71 people, he didn't want to get

his fantasy brothers and sisters in arms wounded, perhaps. perhaps. >> uh-huh. he also -- he did not choose to go down in a blaze of glory either. he was wearing body armor. apparently surrendered to the police immediately. what does that tell us about him? >> well, i've been involved in suicide by cop cases where i've had individuals as an fbi agent shoot and kill other people trying to get me and others to kill them. this guy had every chance in the world to force that to happen. you know, when i was an fbi hostage negotiator, i had a t-shirt somebody gave me one time. it said surrender or die. where really in his case that's the choice. real cops with real guns gave him a real choice. and he chose to put his weapons down. meekly surrender. i think what's interesting, does he have a message? does he have some type of

terrible rationalization for what he did that he really wants to share with us? because if he wanted to die, all he had to do was point a gun at a police officer. they would have obliged him, but he chose not to do that, ron. so there's more to come from this guy's mouth. >> the alleged shooter's mother spoke to abc news by phone from her home in san diego. she said quote, you have the right person. i need to call the police. i need to fly out to colorado. dave, i don't recall from the columbine shooting. did any -- was anybody aware that the shooter in that incident might be somebody who posed a risk to people? was there anybody there who maybe knew something like this was in the offing? >> there were a few people w who -- who understood the brown family in particular who had alerted the cops because dylan, one of the killers had basically turned in the other killer to his friend.

brooks brown whose mom then reported it to the police and turned over pages and pages of the website with all sorts of death threats. and the police investigated that. and for some still unclear reasons, stopped investigating apparently because of another murder case and never followed up. so there were people who had an idea. most people, however, they fooled. and particularly eric harris who is a psychopath. he had just about everybody fooled. for most people that was the exception. the people who did see it coming. >> dave cullen and clint van zandt, thank you for joining us on this difficult day. we will be right back. >> as of right now we do not have any evidence of a second gunman. we were here immediately and

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welcome back to "hardball." for one victim last night's rampage at the movie theater was unbelievably not the first time she was present at such a horrific event. last month she was inside a toronto mall moments before a shooting rampage began. still unnerved by it a few days later she wrote a blog about it. it reads, this empty almost sickening feeling won't go away. i noticed this feeling when i was in the eaton center in toronto just seconds before someone opened fire in the food court. which led me to go outside and unknowingly outside of harm's way. it's hard for me to wrap my mind around how a feeling saved me from being inside for the shooting. sadly, jessica ghawi was inside during this attack and she lost her life.

i'm joined by her brother jordan ghawi. our condolences go out to you. what an awful coincidence. you must feel so whiplashed and terrible about it. >> thank you. yes. those same feelings she expressed in that blog post is what my family and i are experiencing now. >> tell me a little about your sister. what was jessica like? >> she was her own moniker assigned to her by herself is the feisty redhead. that says a lot there. she was passionate, curious, boisterous. she was well loved. her passion showed everywhere and everything she did. >> i don't imagine that anybody, not jessica, not you, certainly not her family would have imagined that having survived one shooting in toronto that really incredibly she would find herself in the midst of another

shooting just a few weeks later and lose her life. how is your family coping with this right now? >> we're devastated. we have a wide network of people across the world. i've been getting e-mails from nigeria from edinburgh, you anytime it. they're trying to strengthen my family which is what my family needs right now. i'm trying to be some sort of pillar for them and focusing on celebrating my sister's life. if i can actually address, i know you had a forensic psychiatrist on and there's speculations on the shooters. i refuse to learn his name. this man was a coward. simply put he was a coward. this isn't about him. this isn't going to be another columbine where we remember those people. this isn't going to be another incident where we know the name of anders bre vig. the names of the victims are

what we should be focusing on. >> i know exactly -- sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt, jordan. i know what you mean when my father was shot by a person. i didn't want to say his name either. if i had gotten my hands on him i would have torn him from limb to limb. i understand the emotions in you and your family. thank you so much for joining us today. i really appreciate it. and our sympathies, of course, again go out to you and your family. we leave you now with some of jessica's thoughts. toward the end of her blog post about the toronto shooting last month she wrote, i say all the time that every moment we have to live our life is a blessing. so often i found myself taking it for granted. every hug from a family member, every laugh we share with friends, even the times of solitude are all blessings. every second of every day is a gift. after saturday evening, i know i truly understand how blessed i am for each second i am given.

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there are going to be other days for politics. this, i think, is a day for prayer and reflection. >> welcome back to "hardball." both president obama and mitt romney gave brief statements today on the tragedy in colorado, but there was one word neither candidate mentioned. gun. and that doesn't come as a surprise to many political observers. if the fallout from this mass shooting follows the pattern of other similar acts, there won't be much of a debate between politicians on gun violence. that concerns proponents of gun

control. he was mayor mike bloomberg today. >> soothing words are nice, but maybe it's time the two people who want to be president of the united states stand up and tell us what they're going to do about it. because this is obviously a problem across the country. instead of the two people president obama and governor romney talking broad things about they want to make the world is better place, okay. tell us how. >> why is it that tragedies like this don't ignite more of a political debate on gun control? matt cooper is editor for "the national journal group" and den b this hennigan is part of the group to prevent gun violence. let me start with you, matt. there are numbers that came out recently here. in 1990, for instance, 78% of the american public said that gun laws ought to be stricter.

by 2010 those numbers were almost completely reversed. only 44% of americans saying laws should be stricter. and many more, of course, saying they should be less strict. why is that happening, do you suppose, in the united states right now? >> i don't think we know all the reasons, ron. but one maybe the elections back in 1994 that brought newt gingrich and the republicans in control of congress. you know, that came after bill clinton and the democratic congress passed some modest gun reform measures. and they got their clocks cleaned. there were other issues in that campaign but that was an important one. that really scared democrats. that was a soul-changing moment for them. since then you have not seen democratic politicians get out in front on gun control the way they used to. >> and dennis, as somebody who's devoted to sensible gun control, those numbers would seem to

indicate that your side is losing the argument here in the united states. what do you make of that? i would contest that. for example, the polls show that a lot of americans think we have a lot of stronger gun laws than we do. the republican pollster in messaging haven have found many believe we have background checks on all gun sales which in fact we don't. only on sales by licensed gun dealers. we need to extend those to all sales. when other pollsters have asked the american people do you support specific changes in our gun laws to make them stronger, they overwhelmingly support those changes. over 85% of the american people. included over 80% of gun owners. we actually have a consensus in this country that we ought to make our gun laws stronger. what we don't have is

politicians who are listening to the people. we instead have politicians who are cowering in fear of the gun lobby doing their bidding and not doing what is necessary for the safety of the american people. >> speaking of politicians like that, here is louis with his thoughts. listen to the congressman. >> it does make me wonder with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying that could have stopped this guy more quickly? >> matt, i know you're a reporter so you may not want to weigh in on this. i've been around guns all my life. whenever i hear somebody talk like that like gee only if more people had guns they could have done something. then i imagine a crowded theater with smoke, flashing lights, gun shots going off. people panicking and screaming. then i imagine what would happen if a bunch of people stood up and started firing. even if they were firing towards

the assailant here. those would be going through walls and hitting people. real chaos would break out. how does somebody like louie gohmert say something this foolish? >> i don't speak to that. just to go back to what we were saying before, you know, i think part of the reason democratic politicians are kind of cowering on this issue and they just don't want to touch it is there are these misperceptions in the public as dennis said. you know, there are lots of people who think president obama has passed gun control or has an agenda in his second term to confiscate guns. you know, he's done nothing on guns and there's no sign he really wants to do anything on gun control. i think the rumors run rampant. and even back in 1994 when clinton passed the assault rifle law that he pushed through, he was constantly saying, look, i'm not coming after your hunting rifle.

i love deer season as much as anyone. i don't want to stop you from hunting. i think fighting misperceptions is very hard. >> dennis, i put matt in a tough position there as a reporter. he wouldn't want to venture an opinion as i did there. but you're not a reporter. you can go ahead and weigh in on this. what louie said was frankly stupid. anyone who knows anything about guns would not imagine that would be a good scenario to have going on. how do you respond to that? >> you hear this kind of insanity all the time from the other side. i would turn the clock back to the horrible shooting that victimized your dad and that victimized jim brady. those were two public officials that were surrounded by well-armed, well-trained people and it didn't stop that shooting. and as a matter of fact, colorado as a state unfortunately has made it easier for people to get concealed weapons and that didn't stop

this shooting. it's a fantasy that more guns means less violence. what we need are common sense measures to keep guns out of the hands of these dangerous people in the first place. that's what the american people want. and the problem is that this debate always gets so polarized. people say if president obama were to do anything to show some leadership towards common sense measures to prevent these shootings, it would be an attack on the second amendment. that's not true. >> i've got to leave. we have to leave it there. appreciate you both coming in and being with us. stay with msnbc news for continuing coverage of the tragedy in colorado. there will be a special tonight at 10:00 eastern msnbc will have a special hosted by chris jansing. we will be right back. >> today we feel not only a sense of grief, but perhaps also of helplessness. but there is something we can do.

we can offer comfort to someone near us who is suffering or heavy laden. and we can mourn with those who mourn in colorado. this morning colorado lost youthful voices which would have brightened their homes, enriched their schools, and brought joy to their families. our prayer is that the comforter might bring the peace to their souls that surpasses their understanding. a car insurance c. [ voice of dennis ] switch to allstate. their claim service is so good, now it's guaranteed. [ normal voice ] so i can trust 'em. unlike randy. are you in good hands?

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it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ and they pulled their negative ads from television stations in colorado. for an assessment of how the candidates handled the news and what impact it could have on the campaign, we've got john hileman and mark halperin. both are msnbc political analysts. john -- both of you but john first, this is a tough thing for

presidential candidates. they're out there in the midst of a hard fought campaign. a tragedy like this happens. how did the two men handle it do you suppose? >> it's always a tough thing to do. certainly they're in high gear and been in combat for the past couple weeks. you've got to down shift and change tone quick. both candidates have skilled speech writing operations around them and very sensible advisers. i think they both handled it with what i kind of expected to be the kind of grace and a fair amount of dignity. they did what they needed to do today which is strike the right tone of grief and condolence for the victims and the victims' families. send some kind of national sympathy and national mourning and get themselves out of that state of kind of cheap political combat as quickly as possible. >> mark, i believe the president was apprised at about 5:30, 5:45 this morning that the shooting had happened. how does an incident like this effect a campaign?

what happens in the immediate aftermath? what are the advisers looking at? what things are they weighing? >> first of all, we all continue to be concerned about the families and victims particularly ones who are hospitalized. and you saw it in both governor romney and president obama today of real human response. behind the scenes, though, rememberknow, 24 hours ago, although we're in july, there was intense political back and forth going on. with both sides thinking they had issues they could score on. press releases galore, and all that comes to a halt. these are operatives in the senior levels of the white house and in boston. this is not a hard call. neither man had events today that couldn't be changed or scrapped and same with the surrogates, mrs. romney, the first lady, vice president biden, all very easy call to cancel their events and then watch and see. watch and see as we head into the weekend. my guess is that because these

two guys, i think, have been running more negative campaigns than they like to, this could have a residual effect for a few days into next week, but before long, we'll be back to where they are when they get a better feel for where the country is. >> you hate to be cynical about this sort of thing, you guys, particularly on a day like today, but some of us were chatting here before the show. we all kind of agreed by the end of the weekend, beginning of next week, whatever punumb prau of good feeling and togetherness arises from this, it will wear off. the president spoke about the tragedy in personal terms, as a parent. >> my daughters go to the movies. what if malia and sasha had been at the theater? as so many of our kids do every day. michelle and i will be fortunate enough to hug our girls a little

tighter tonight, and i'm sure you will do the same with your children, but for those parents who may not be so lucky, we have to embrace them and let them know we will be there for them as a nation. >> john, this is a test in a way for a president or a potential president, presidents of the united states are consolers in chief. i think of my own father in the challenger disaster, for instance. it's a tough note that you have to strike, isn't it, though? politics, of course, goes out the window, but you have to hit just the right note. again, do you think that both of these men did a pretty good job with that? >> i think they did, ron, and president obama's case, he has some experience in this area, obviously, with the gabby giffords shooting, another incident where he rose to the occasion. it is, as you say, tough to strike the right note, but when it calls upon in a politician is

a largeness of spirit and then the one thing you need to stay away from is to in any way kind of cheeping the thing with kind of infecting it with politics in any way. it calls for a human response and it calls for a soft response, and as i say, president obama has had this, been in office almost four years, he had other occasions where he had to do it and he's done it well in the past. governor romney has not been president and not called on to do the role in the same way, but his response was equally graceful. the people around both of these candidates are experienced and he had very, very good speechwriters and good political strastgists around them who can help them find their way to the right place rhetorically and in terls of their human affect. >> we only have a few seconds left. mark, both men mentioning family. that's really a note you want to strike there. he's are family men and they can

identify with the tragedy that is a family tragedy for the relatives of the victims. >> they can and it was totally genuine. both these guys at times in public are not emotional or emotive when they talked about families or things are tragged, it makes them think of their own families which is where both of their thoughts going instantly in a case like this. you see a more human side tof. one thing the campaign has lacked is a measure of humanity on everyone involved. i hope it gets them focused on what is important and rein in their campaign operatives as we go forward and try to have a more civil debate than we have had in the last couple weeks. >> we'll see how that goes. we'll be right back. ♪ atmix of energies.ve the world needs a broader

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let me finish tonight with this. guns don't kill people, as the saying goes, people kill people. true enough, but people with guns end up doing most of that killing. in the wake of this most recent tragedy in colorado, the national rifle association and its minions are no doubt brycing themselves for an assault on their constitutionally protected obsession with fire arms. that's not going to happen. never has, likely never will. but let me advance what i consider a sensible proposition around guns if for no other reason than to annoy the nra. let's start treating guns more

or less like cars. i know, i know, there's no constitutional right to drive an automobile, but neither are there any constitutional restrictions. after all, when cars first arrived, they were nothing more than noisy, smelly versions of the horse and buggy. no one was required to ubstain a license. anyone can drive as they saw. let's do the same with guns and gun ownership. here's the deal. guns, particularly semiautomatic hand guns, are designed to kill. when you purchase one, you're announcing you decision to kill another person. that's serious business, so let's take it seriously. let's require gun purchasers to prove they know how to handle a gun properly, just as we test a new user's ability to maneuver an automobile and how well they can use their