has some answers. what do you got? >> jayson writes, my thoughts and prayers go out to those whose lives were lost and though to those who have a speedyfeeli >> i've got a 5-year-old daughter. it's completely unimaginable so we're thinking about them. we'll continue our coverage right now with "morning joe." >> you see young people who have come in and just two days ago, or 36 hours ago or even 24 hours ago, it wasn't certain whether they'd make it and now suddenly their eyes are open, they're alert and they're talking and it reminds you that even in the darkest of days, you know, life

continues. and people are strong and people bounce back and people are resilient. >> good morning. it's monday, july 23rd. joe and i are joined this morning by msnbc and "time" magazine's senior political analyst mark halperin, national affairs editor for new york magazine and political analyst john heilemann and former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner with willie geist at the olympics in london. willie, good morning. that's a little bit of a better schedule for you there? >> good morning. it is a little better. 10:30 a.m. instead of 5:30 a.m. and the weather is good, although bill karins reports it's going to begin raining in time for the opening ceremony. let's hope he's wrong as usual. >> we look forward to much more from you in the next couple hours. we'll begin with the tragedy in colorado, six hours from now, the suspect, 24-year-old james holmes, is scheduled to make his first court appearance since the friday movie theater shooting that left 12 people dead and 58

injured. officials say the alleged shooter is not cooperating and a motive is still not clear. police say they finished collecting evidenced from the suspect's apartment, that was booby-trapped with a complex array of explosiveses. the associated press reports investigators found a batman mask in the apartment. the rest of the apartment building remains shut down due to chemical hazards. we've learned the suspect applied to join a local gun range last month, but was rejected after the club's owner heard what he described as a bizarre message on the alleged gunman's voice mail. president obama flew into aurora yesterday afternoon to meet privately with victims' families and to show his support. >> i confessed to them that words are always inadequate in these kinds of situations, but that my main task was to serve as a representative of the entire country and let them know

that we are thinking about them at this moment and we'll continue to think about them each and every day. i also tried to assure them that although the perpetrator of this evil act has received a lot of attention over the last couple days, that attention will fade away and in the end, after he has felt the full force of our justice system, what will be remembered are the good people who were impacted by this tragedy. >> and the tragedy in colorado has reignited the debate over gun control. police say the ammunition, gear and four weapons used in the attack including an assault rifle, are believed to have been purchased legally. the suspect apparently received up to 50 packages in the mail in the four months leading up to the attack. he purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet.

one law enforcement official says the massacre could have been far worse if the shooter's semiautomatic rifle hadn't jammed as investigators believe it had. new york city mayor michael bloomberg yesterday called on the two presidential candidates to lead a national debate on gun control. >> somebody's got to do something about this and this requires, particularly in a presidential year, the candidates for president of the united states to stand up and once and for all say, yes, they feel terrible, yes, it's a tragedy, yes, we have great sympathy for the families but it's time for this country to do something. that's the job of the president of the united states. and i don't know what they're going to do, but i think it's incumbent on them to tell us specifically, not just in broad terms. it's time i think we hold them accountable and say you want our votes, what are you going to do? >> others like colorado governor expressed more doubt that more

regulation would prevent shootings like the one friday in aurora. >> if you look at this person that's, again, almost a creature, i hene mean if he cou have gotten access to a gun, we're in a time in information age where there's access to all kinds of information and he was diabolical. demonic in his twisted sense that he just i think of all this as a terrorist, he wanted to take away not just the people in that heater, but from the country, our ability to enjoy life and go to a movie theater which for most of us is a refuge to get away from the pressures of life and, you know, i'm not sure -- it's a human issue in some way. how are we not able to identify someone like this who's so deeply disturbed? >> by the way, joe, mayor bloomberg will be on the show later on so we can talk more with him about that. certainly extremely convoluted issue. >> it is a convoluted issue and

that's why -- i think a lot of americans would like to see -- play itself out later. let families bury their dead loved ones and take care of those that are still struggling for life in hospitals right now. it's always unbecoming after every shooting that both sides will come out and decide that now is the perfect time to have the gun control debate. and i've got to say i agree with the governor, that mental health issue and that the united states doesn't do enough in this area on mental health and it's -- but again, this is a debate. i personally believe let's have this debate in a week, let's have this debate in two weeks. when you start seeing editorials on both sides de signed to -- deciding to weigh in when people are dying, it's just unfortunate. i do want to say, that the

president -- i liked seeing the president do what presidents really do best and that is comfort in a time of need, whether it was ronald reagan during the "challenger" accident, whether bill clinton after oklahoma city, george w. bush standing on the pile of rubble after 9/11, only a president can do what barack obama did and that is talk to those affected by such unspeakable tragedy and bring at least a little bit of comfort. >> yeah. i couldn't agree more. i think in terms of the gun control debate, steve rattner, one of the arguments mayor bloomberg has, is that -- and joe's point is well taken, it's always right after these events that everyone seizes the moment to jump on the debate. but the argument bloomberg has is that obama hasn't had this debate, that he has not taken this on. if not now, when? >> well, it's not an issue at the moment, but look, i agree with joe that there is a period of mourning, if you will, where

it's probably not exactly the right time. i agree with joe and others who are saying it's not just a gun problem, it's a social problem, problem of identifying in the young kids those that may be problematic. there are 150 million guns out there, but i don't for the life of me understand what legitimate purpose anyone has for carrying an assault weapon, what legitimate purpose anyone has for carrying a semiautomatic pistol and the idea that we don't have laws about that i find remarkable. i do agree with you that when you look back after the tragic shooting of ronald reagan and jim brady campaign and the progress that was made off of that tragedy, i think you want good things to come from tragedies. you want to make the best of a terrible situation. and i do agree with the mayor, i think it's time for both the presidential candidates to say where they are on this issue and hopefully make some progress on it. it's inexcusable we as a country could be in this position. >> it's so interesting, joe, when you look at these cases, the mental health aspects of it,

you could list issues with this young man that clearly should be warning signs but they always seem so clear in retrospect, don't they? >> there's no doubt about it, and, you know, i looked at the virginia tech shooter, i look at this shooter, so many shooters like this are young males. in fact, before, of course, you don't -- you don't want to generalize, but as soon as i heard about this shooting, i knew who it was. i knew it with you a young, white male, probably from an affluent neighborhood, disconnected from society. it happens time and time again. i think a lot of it has to do -- again most of it has do with mental health. you have these people that are somewhere, i believe, probably on the autism scale, i don't know if that's the case here, but it happens more often than not, people that can walk around

in society, that can function on college campuses, can even excel in college campuses but are socially disconnected. i have a son who has asperger's loved by everyone in his family and is wonderful, but it is for those that may not have a loving family and a support group and may be a bit further along on the autism, an extraordinarily frustrating, terrible challenge day in and day out. and so, i do think, again, i don't know the specifics about this young man, but we see too many shooters in these tragedyis bearing the same characteristics mentally. that's why i feel the way i do about health care. john heilemann and mark halperin, we really have had a debate about gun control and we've had a debate over the past

20 years, and the supporters of gun control have lost. i remember back in the '90s, after a similar tragedy having a debate and actually watching conservative democrats stand up, i think at the time it was john dingell, and john murtha who stood up and killed president clinton's effort at further gun control. i think this debate has been had. >> there's no question that the example of what happened in 1994 when a lot of democrats, at least by conventional wisdom, lost their seats because of the efforts that president clinton pursued to do gun control, that kind of killed the yap tiappeti people to have this debate. the nra is an extraordinary powerful interest group in washington, some think it's the most powerful interest group, but to come back to steve's point, i think there is -- there's got to be a way to have a conversation that's not necessarily about gun control,

but is about things that i think most americans would think would be sensible regulation. this guy bought 3,000 rounds of hand gun ammunition, 3,000 rounds for assault rifle, 350 shells for a .12 gauge shotgun and drum magazine large enough to hold 100 rounds capable of firing 50 or 60 rounds per minute. i don't understand how in the second amendment every amendment in our bill of rights and constitution has reasonable limits on it, there must be some way in which whether through taxation or through notification when people go out and buy vast quantities of ammunition and these kinds of specialist clips that don't have anything to do with self-defense or about hunting, there must be ways in which we can have some regulation that, of course, would not prevent tragedies. there are crazy people who do crazy things. let's make it a little bit harder. let's just make it a little bit harder. even if on the margins we won't stop all the crazy people who do crazy things but even if we stop one out of 10 or 15 or 20

because we know someone has bought this vast amount, somebody does an investigation, we stop one person, it just doesn't seem to me that unreasonable and i don't think it's an issue where the vast majority of the country would object to that kind of regulation. i actually think probably a large number of people explained in this way i think you would have a sensible majority for some kinds of modest restrictions, again even if just notification, taxation, might have a good effect. >> the nra is acting like grover norquist, taking this absolute position they're afraid, rightly or wrongly, i think wrongly, hope wrongly, any change along the lines you're talking about to deal with the egregious cases is an encroachment that will lead to more things happening. >> where we are now, it's going to take a republican to do this. there's no democratic leader who will take this on as evidenced by the current president. >> all right. we're going to move on to other news. couple more stories to report this morning. today the ncaa is expected to announce its punishment against

penn state in the wake of the child sex abuse scandal. yesterday morning before dawn, construction crews under the orders of penn state's president, began removing the iconic statute of coach joe paterno who died six months ago. until a report found that top university officials including coach paterno were involved in covering up sex abuse allegations against former defensive coach jerry sandusky for a decade. the ncaa says the punishment will be corrective and punitive. a source who spoke with "the new york times" says it would include a stiff financial penalty, a number of lost scholarships, a postseason bowl ban, and the freedom for penn state football players to transfer to other schools. also, the paterno family was not happy about the statute coming down, saying in a statement, tearing down the statute of joe paterno does not serve the victims of jerry sandusky's horrible crimes or help heal the

penn state community. no word on what will happen to the statute, which the university says is now in a secure location. i wonder what penn state will look like come september after this all comes down. joe? >> i don't know. this is surreal. loved and respected joe paterno for decades, have by extension loved the team that he coached, that played football with class, a remarkable school and has always been remarkable organization, but the fact is, willie geist, that the paterno family in that statement shouldn't just have talked about jerry sandusky's victims. they were also joe paterno's victims. joe paterno's victims because he was part of a much bigger cover-up and, willie, we've been suggesting, i've been suggesting, i think and we all have agreed across the table, from the moment this horrible story broke, that penn state should have voluntarily said, we

got it. we understand. we're going to shut down our program for a year, it's going to be our decision not the ncaa's we're going to spend every saturday calling people to the stadium in happy valley and reflecting on what our school did, and we're going to become a better school because of it. but they dragged their feet, they have -- and they've now left themselves in a position where the ncaa is having to come in and punish them in a way that actually may be worse. >> yeah. >> well, a lot of cynics think they actually took the statute down ahead of this ncaa decision because that would somehow mitigate. it was too little too late as it turned out. with regards to the statute, joe, you and i talked about this too, i know jo paterno did good things over his long career there, but covering up the rape of children supersedes any of those. you cannot have a statute of a man who helped cover up child rape standing in front of your stadium. that's number one.

on the ncaa question, we'll find out in a couple hours, 9:00 eastern time, huge penalties, not the death penalty probably, but you're going to get bowl sanctions, you can't play in the postseason, three, five, more years, that will run off more recruits that want to play for a national championship. take away scholarship reductions. a big financial penalty. but this is new ground for the ncaa. in the past, they have only overseen the rules that they have. they don't step into criminal questions normally. this is new ground for them. some people say it's a dangerous precedent where they can step in and take away scholarships and things from other programs based on other criminal activity. something had to be done here, as you say, joe, the university didn't do enough so the ncaa is going to step in and hammer penn state this morning. >> you know, willie, it is new ground for the ncaa, but you know, in the past we have seen all of these infractions where a player sells, you know,

[ inaudible ] and the coach ends up getting tired and everybody pulls their hair out or maybe somebody -- they buy a pick-up truck for somebody on the side, for these athletes that are bringing in tens of millions of dollars here, you're right, this is a case that involves the raping of children under the geist of pen state's football coach who was the de facto of penn state's football department for years. if you're going to give smu the death penalty for throwing -- for boosters throwing cash around you're not going to give penn state something just as bad for its football program, allowing the raping of young children for years? again, look at the timeline of sandusky standing on the sideline with children years after they knew he was raping children in the shower. how does the ncaa, if they're

going to pound ohio state for people selling rings to get tattoos, how will they not pound penn state and possibly move towards the death penalty? >> i think you'll see this morning, they're going to gut it, not give them the death penalty but gut that program. the ncaa throws around this term, lack of institutional control, that's how they prosecute a lot of these cases when they are violations of their rules. ohio state guys selling rings that were theirs or trading rings and jackets that were theirs for tattoos and get the university in trouble. this is a criminal question. the ncaa stepping in to new territory, they are having say over a criminal question. if you want to talk about a lack of institutional control, how could there be a bigger lack than at penn state. >> too bad penn state didn't realize this on their own, steve ra thor in. the university experience is about launching kids into the world and intellectually and morally and at some point

nothing needs to be more important than justice for the victims. no football program, no nothing. >> right. that's why i think it's an institutional failure and may also be a criminal case, but it seems to be a clear institutional failure and i'm with joe, i don't really understand why there's not a dealt penalty, if ever there were going to be a death penalty you would think this would be the situation. >> yeah. that's just the bottom line. all right. a lot more to get to this morning. coming up, we have mayor michael bloomberg, he will be here on set. also, "new york times" columnist frank bruni, editor of the new yorker david remnick and daniel silva will be here. up next the morning papers and politico playbook. bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you. we had a pretty decent weekend around the country. the heat wave and the drought. we're going to get a little relief and some rain in a few spots as we go throughout today. let me update you on that. showers and thunderstorms rolling across new york state. they're now heading south of albany down the new york state

thruway and north of new york city trying to enter connecticut and showers near boston. later today, widespread wind damage is possible, especially in upstate new york, from buffalo to watertown around the syracuse and rochester area. a large area of the country with thunderstorms, including chicago, pittsburgh, cleveland and detroit. even the northeast, we may not see severe storms, but there will be pop-up thunderstorms from boston to new york down to d.c. later today. we'd lunch to get that rainfall from indiana to st. louis. you will have to wait until the end of this week. another hot day. about 105 degrees for about four days straight. that won't end until thursday. you're watching "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. this man is about to be the millionth customer.

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24 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york times," after its disappointing ipo in may, facebook faces a test thursday when the company releases its first earnings since going public. investors are waiting to see how much money in ad revenue the company makes. in comparison google makes $40 billion in ad revenue, ten times as much as facebook does right now. do you think they'll do okay? >> this stock has been under pressure. well below the ipo price and people are worried about the valuati valuation. >> is it a big test, these numbers? >> it's an important moment. the only reason it's a big test if the numbers deviate a lot from what people are expecting. >> also in "the new york times," the republican party in ra cra which gave the country ronald reagan is struggling for relevance in california. no republicans hold statewide office and consultants say californian republicans have a

hard time attracting crossover voters. congressman kevin mccarthy in the u.s. house says, quote, we are at a lower point we've ever been. it's rebuilding time. from our parade of papers, the charlotte observer shocking studies on sleep. oh, no. show almost one third of american workers get fewer than six hours of sleep at night. researchers also show sleep is -- sleep apnea is associated with a higher cancer mortality rate with those very real concerns, the university of north carolina is now starting up the first bachelor's degree program in neurodiagnostics and sleep science as research in the field continues to grow. that makes a lot of sense. it's a big problem in this country. >> i could get a doctor rate just in sleeping. >> a big problem on "morning joe." >> we don't sleep. >> everybody here. >> we do not sleep. overnight shifts are rough. joining us now, let's go to politico. speaking of rough, we've got jonathan martin with a look at -- >> not that rough. >> oh, you're adorable.

a look at the morning playbook. we'll start, oh, boy, mitt's going abroad. how is that going to go? >> well, i think there are two goals here for the romney campaign. >> where is he going? >> he's going to the uk, going to london for the olympics and then flying to israel and flying back to europe to go to poland before he flies back to the states. i think with the first stop, the goal is to remind folks that he was the one that saved the '02 olympics in salt lake city. that has not been a big part of this campaign. the romney people want to change that with his stop in london. the second part and the bigger part of this is just showing that romney is at ease on the world stage, showing him with foreign leaders, for photo op diplomacy if you will, to give people in america the sense that yes, this is someone who is a plausible commander in chief. >> okay. and in poland, what's his goal there? >> well, i think -- sure. in poland i think it's

fascinating because he's meeting before going to warsaw to meet with the current leaders of the country and i think there are a couple things going on here. he first wants to embrace a country that has been a good ally of the states in recent years, and also a country that shares romney's wariness towards russia. this is not a country that wants a re-set policy towards moscow and lastly keep in mind, places like michigan, pennsylvania and ohio that are key for the election. >> the president's attacks on mitt romney's tenure at bain capital, back in the news, there's a price to those. the obama campaign, jonathan, spent $58 million in june alone dedicating most of its cash to television advertisements. mitt romney stepped up his spending going through almost $30 million last month. on the republican side, the money isn't just coming from the romney campaign. in june the republican super pac

american crossroads had its best month of fund-raising in 2012 in june aloev. the karl rove backed group raised almost $6 million. that's certainly going to help them. >> and it's not impossible to think that after labor day, september and october, that karl rove group could raise three, four times that amount in one month. you captured the central concern for democrats watching this campaign, that the obama campaign is spend morge than its raising as it did last month and there's no limit to what the republican super pacs will raise going forward. that could be a challenge here in the final couple months for the obama campaign. >> mark halperin. >> jonathan, what about the democratic groups, do they think they've been able to use health care or the fact that republicans have raised more, gone over a tipping point and will now be competitive? >> a tipping point yes, in terms of being able to raise serious money, but mark, as you know,

there are two issues here. there are being able to raise what you and i consider a pretty strong figure, which they did last month, but we're on a different plane here compared to groups like american cross roads and any democrat would say they're going to have a hard time raising money as crossroads could raise. as it gets closer election day and more wealthy businessmen who can't stand the administration f they can put in $5 million they can put in 10 or $20 million and i think that's the concern democrats have. >> go ahead, steve. >> no. i was just going to say, i agree completely. i think the democrats just can't catch up. it's a function of numbers. some democrats like to say they're richer than we are and more or equally importantly, you've had three major democratic governors, soros, lewis and bing, who have been a huge part of the democratic fund-raising -- >> missing in action. >> off the playing field at the moment for whatever personal reasons they've decided not to participate in any meaningful

way. >> an interesting thing. all these obama campaign outspending the romney campaign, in this period and probably for the rest of the summer, but once the general election comes and mitt romney can start spending the money they're raising for the general election republicans will outspend democrats by a lot. it's why the summer is important to the obama people and romney people are girding if they can keep it close this summer they feel like the spending advantage in the fall will benefit them. >> jonathan? >> yeah. i was going to say, the big problem for democrats is they have a class of donors who seemingly, frustration of democratic operatives, care more about keeping financial reform in the appearances of giving money to the super pacs than they do winning elections. that's a frustration you hear all the time from operatives is the fact you've got what they call the goo-goo good government donors who don't want to give the kind of money that conservative businessmen are happy to give. >> all right. coming up, we will talk about elizabeth warren and how

something a little different going on there. >> oh, boy. >> politico's jonathan martin, thank you very much. let's go to london now, willie geist, what do you have coming up in sports on that perfect little sunny schedule you're on out there in london? >> well, mika, there's a lot going on here. a brit won the tour de france yesterday, the british open wrapped up in style. the olympics. but at the british it was kind of a story of collapse as much as anything else. ea ernie else won the tournament but got help from adam scott on the last four holes. a guy who was cruising to victory until he wasn't. highlights when we come back.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." we are -- i should say, am live in london this morning. we'll be here this week and the next couple weeks covering the summer olympic games, the opening ceremonies on friday night. but the big story around here yesterday, a couple hundred miles up the road in saint ann's, the final round of the british open. early on, tiger woods, still in the hunt, trying to stay there, but finds himself in the bunker on the 6th hole.

this was not good, the end for him. couldn't get out on the first shot. ball ricochets back. tries again from a crouching position, back on the green for triple bogey, tied at third place for 3 under. 14th hole, adam scott the story of the day, leader heading into the final round, finds the cup with his birdie putt, has a four-shot lead over ernie els, only four holes to play. tough to mess that up? els keep the pressure on, went off the course earlier, finished with a 15-foot birdie at 7 under. he watches adam scott. scott bogeyed 1 eed 15, bogeyed tried to get back on track on 17, misses the long try for par, tied with els at 7 under. he's got to at least par 18 needed to force a playoff with els for the title. looked good on the way. but just comes off the cup. adam scott bogeys the final four holes. almost impossibly blows a

four-stroke lead. earnly els wins his second player. joins john van dell belt, remember that name, through 54 of the open and come up short of the jug. after a bizarre final round, ernie els offered his condolences to his friend adam scott. >> really feel for my buddy scotty. i really do. i've been there before. i've blown majors before and golf tournaments before and just hope he doesn't take it as hard as i did. >> it was, you know, very sloppy finish by me, just talking about the golf, and disappointing to finish that way. i played so well all week. i'm very disappointed, but i felt like i played well this week and probably a great chance. >> golf is cruel. played great for 68 holes and the last four killed him. the tour de france meanwhile, giving a little cause for

celebration in great britain. bradley wiggins becomes the first brit ever to claim victory in cycling's famous race. beat his closest competitor by three minutes 21 seconds and yes, the yellow jersey of the tour de france belongs in great britain. baseball now, a's going for the sweep of the yankees. a four-game sweep of the yankees out in oakland. bottom of the ninth, yankees up a run. soriano trying to close it out. seth smith goes deep to tie the game at four. bottom of the 12th man on for coco crisp, derrick norvis waved to third. andruw jones can't get the through off. a's walk off a 5-4 win. major league leading 11th walk-off win of the year. yankees swept in a four-game series for the first time since 2003. yesterday's win puts the a's even with the orioles for the second of two wild card spots. angels top the wild card standings. as i said the 2012 summer

olympics begin friday night with the opening ceremonies over my shoulder. i will be here with the next three weeks hosting nbc sports coverage i'll begin there on thursday and here on "way too early" and "morning joe" throughout. coming up next here on "morning joe," "the new york times" frank bruni joins the conversation, must-read opinion pages including his piece on why the olympics are women's time to shine. we'll be back in just a moment.

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if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. 43 past the hour. it's time now for our must-read opinion pages. here with us now columnist from

"the new york times" frank bruni whose column focuses on women's time to shine at the olympics. we'll get to that in a moment. willie geist is with us from london. we want to get to a few other must reads from "the new york times" as well i've chosen from bill keller. i picked two from this. i thought you guys would like to chew on this. head for the cliff, says bill keller. president obama should declare now that unless congressional leaders come up with a serious bargain on fiscal reform something very much like simpson-bowles, he will allow all of the bush tax breaks to lapse and all of the draconian cuts to take effect. assuming no deal is consummated in the poisonous preelection climate, he should insist on a lame-duck session after election day. he should invite congressional leaders to camp david, put simpson-bowles on the table, and negotiate, not a lot, since the plan already includes considerable compromise, but enough to show goodwill. if no deal emerges all the democrats have to do is take a page from the republican

playbook, dig in their heels and do nothing. he goes on to write this -- republicans will howl this is blackmail. a priceless complaint from the party that periodically threatens to let america default on its debt. but does obama have it in him? this is the kind of tactic lyndon johnson would have employed with relish. you can imagine bill clinton pulling it off. president obama whether out of diffy dense or inexperience has not shown a comparable audacity or mastery of political leverage. here's his chance to show us what we can expect if he's re-elected, fruitful leadership or another four years of gridlock. anyone want to jump in? >> i applaud anyone who has a platform to get the country engaged. >> what's wrong with it? >> >> it would put the country into recession. i don't know the president will get mileage saying if you don't give me what i want i'll put the country in recession.

>> someone give me a better tactic, given the fact that nothing is happening and nothing can happen. >> first of all, we're in an unusual period where something has to happen. these all expire. it's not a situation where it's to say we'll do nothing, life will go on it is. life will not go on as it is if something doesn't happen. i understand, you know, the high stakes poker that's involved here, but i think unless the president stands up and says these are my minimum conditions, i think we run the risk of having an inadequate solution. >> it's an empty threat, though. he could never possibly be for the pentagon cuts and a combination of simultaneous huge tax increases and spending cuts when every reasonable economist says it will put the country in recession. you can make threats but this one would be totally empty. >> well, i'm not sure about that. the second point is, i think bill keller's suggestion this be done in the lame-duck session is

completely impractical. there's no possibility this is going to happen in the lame-duck session. what most people think is going to happen there will be some kind of continuing resolution, carry all the stuff over into the first half of next year, new congress, new president or re-elected president and then you get down to serious business. i think there has to be as part of that the president has to be willing to issue some credible threats whether what keller wants or some other version. if he doesn't we're back where we started from. >> all right. i want to get to frank's piece in "the new york times." women's time to shine. four decades after the passage of title 9 and a stated national determination to create impublicly financed educational institutions as many athletic opportunities for women as for men, high schools do a better job at promoting women's sports. women's professional golf have nowhere near the following for men and the big pro sports for football, baseball, ice hockey,

only basketball has an analogous women's lead which doesn't have a commercial left. then the olympics, a sporting event has wraply watched as any other with the ability to bestow fame and lucre on the vick tors and much of this disparity collapses. girl power gets its due. willie geist you will be watching these great stories up close out of london. we saw here on the set last week, sports illustrated came in with their top earners in sports no women on the list. women, willie, will be on the list as we watch the olympics. >> they'll absolutely will. to frank's point about "newsweek," more evidence, this is the cover of "time" magazine, lolo jones, as you said the cover of "sports illustrated" our gymnastics team. you can't say enough about phelps and lochte but the female gymnasts, the female soccer team and also the female swimmer, misty franklin, 17-year-old, who

incidentally goes to high school in aurora, colorado, could be the first female to win seven medals, american female to win seven medals in an olympics. >> the first american swimmer to qualify for seven different events. >> she's from aurora. >> 17 years old. >> some of the other standouts? >> he mentioned soccer -- >> what inspired you to watch the piece? >> i was watching the olympic gymnastics trials, i was watching it with my nieces. i have about a gazillion nieces. and i realized how refreshing it was to see them looking at a tv screen looking at prime time coverage of the athletic event and seeing women excelling. and i realized that's all too rare. when the olympics come along, i think women almost get as much air time as men. it's determined more based on who's doing well than any sort of gender assumption. we're reading an enormous amount about the women's gymnastics team that happens during a lot of olympics because our women happen to be globally better

than men. it's lovely to see merit driving the program rather than convention. >> it's amazing that more women athletes haven't sort of found that marketability compared to men, talking about the list that we had on last week, because you would think that would be a sweet spot for advertisers in such a huge bay, but it doesn't happen, not in team sports. >> in the realm of professional sports there really isn't -- with the one exception of tennis isn't a close sport in which we watch regularly and in which we have a number of female stars who are household names. tennis is the exception but after you leave tennis it's hard to think of another one. >> willie? >> yeah. and, you know, these athletes come every four years to a lot of people they fall out of the sky and get to know them a week before the olympics and captivated by them two weeks and they go away. after the 1999 women's world cup of soccer, there was this great outpouring enthusiasm brandi chastain rips off the shirt, the sport brass, led to them starting a professional women's soccer league that eventually

fizzled. you wonder why it can't hang on after the flashes of brilliance why they can't have greater longevity and staying power afterwards. >> two soccer leagues fizzle. the one in may women's professional soccer isn't happening and i think if we want our young women in this country to have the same encouragement, same portraits of strength on tv that men get, think we have to make a commitment and the next time they try a women's soccer league, let's take our nieces and daughters and sisters there. >> they have all the money to pay for everything in the household, go ahead, heilemann. >> i was curious, what's the analysis for why this doesn't happen? do we li we live in a market economy, 50% is female, lot of them play sports in -- before they get to high school and in high school. you have something like the wnba that is -- exists but nothing like the kind of television viewership or attendance. why is that? what is the explanation for why women's sports at the professional level don't break through at a level of market demand? >> the biggest explanation is

the obvious one. we're working against decades of tradition. title 9 was 40 years ago and that was something that was going to put more and more female athletes in the pipeline. but that took a long time to get us to the point where now with these olympics for the first time ever there are more women on the u.s. olympic team than men. it's going to take a lot of time but i also think that, you know, women just as in other places of the work force, they have family concerns that men don't, they have child rearing concerns men don't, they don't devote themselves fully often in a way the professional athletes do in the word l world of sports to lead to that sort of thing. >> frank bruney, thank you for coming back in. your op-ed on line at "the new york times."com. -- new york times.com. new york city mayor michael bloomberg joins us on set. we're back in just a moment. [ ryan ] maybe just a short run today.

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coming up later on "morning joe" -- "new york times" best-selling author daniel silva will be here with his 15th spy novel "the fallen angel." when we come back editor of the new yorker david remnick and army combat veteran wes moore. keep it here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day

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♪ you see, young people who have come in and just two days ago or 36 hours ago or even 24 hours ago, it wasn't certain whether they'd make it and now suddenly their eyes are open, they're alert and they're talking, and it reminds you that even in the darkest of days, you know, life continues and people are strong and people bounce back and people are resilient.

>> welcome back to "morning joe." mark halperin and john heilemann with us, and joining the table editor of "the new yorker" david remnick who profiles bruce springsteen at the age of 62 in the latest issue of "the new yorker." we'll get to that later this hour. joining the table, best-selling author and combat veteran of the u.s. army wes moore. good to have you on board. we'll begin this hour with the tragedy in colorado. later this morning, the suspect, 24-year-old james holmes, is scheduled to make his first court appearance since the friday movie theater shooting that left 12 people dead and 58 injured. officials say that the alleged shooter is not koorcooperating a motive is not clear. police say they finished collecting evidence from the suspect's apartment that was booby-trapped with a complex array of explosives. the associated press reports investigators also found a batman mask in the apartment. the rest of the apartment building remains shut down due

to chemical hazards. we've also learned the suspect applied to join a local gun range last month but was rejected after the club's owner heard what he described as a bizarre message on the alleged gunman's voice mail. president obama flew into aurora yesterday afternoon to meet privately with victims' families and to show his support. >> i confessed to them that words are always inadequate in these kinds of situations, but that my main task was to serve as a representative of the entire country and let them know that we are thinking about them at this moment and we'll continue to think about them each and every day. i also tried to assure them that although the perpetrator of this evil act has received a lot of attention over the last couple of days, that attention will fade away and in the end, after

he has felt the full force of our justice system, what will be remembered are the good people who were impacted by this tragedy. >> the tragedy in colorado has reignited the debate over gun control. police say the ammunition here and four weapons used in the attack including an assault rifle, are believed to have been purchased legally. the suspect apparently received up to 50 packages in the mail in the four months leading up to the attack. he purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet. one law enforcement official says the massacre could have been far worse if the shooter's semiautomatic rifle hadn't jammed as investigators believe. new york city mayor michael bloomberg called on the two presidential candidates to lead a national debate on gun control. >> somebody's got to do something about this and this requires, particularly in a presidential year, the candidates for president of the united states to stand up and

once and for all say, yes, they feel terrible, yes, it's a tragedy, yes, we have great sympathy for the families, but it's time for this country to do something and that's the job of the president of the united states. and i don't know what they're going to do, but i think it's incumbent on them to tell us specifically, not just in broad terms. it's time we hold them accountable and you want our votes what are you going to do? >> others like colorado governor john hickenlooper expressed doubt that more gun regulation would prevent shootings like the one friday in aurora. >> if you look at this person, again, almost a creature, i mean if he couldn't have access to the guns what kind of bomb would he have manufactured. we're in an information age where there's access to all kinds of information and he was diabolical, demonic in this twisted sense, i mean i think of this almost as a terrorist, he

wanted to take away not just the people in the theater but from the country our ability to enjoy life, to go to a movie theater, be which is for most of us a refuge to get away from the rest of some of the pressures of life and, you know, i'm not sure -- it's a human issue, how are we not able to identify someone like this who's so deeply disturbed? >> i think we teeneed to look a everything, if everything should be looked at, but to think that somehow gun control is or increased gun control in my view, that would have to be proved. we had a ban on assault weapons that expired some years ago. it didn't change the situation at all in my view. look, i think that the strongest second amendment rights people would be glad to have a conversation, but to somehow leap to the conclusion that this was somehow caused by the fact that we don't have more gun control legislation, i don't think it's been proved. >> okay. here we go, wes moore, stricter

gun control legislation could that have prevented something like this? >> here's the thing. i mean we all know that now is a time to mourn, now is a time to remember but the fact is -- >> it is stunning he could get his hands on all those weapons, though. >> if not now, when. the challenge i have is we understand the vast majority of gun crime in this country is committed by illegal guns. i understand that. that does not, that does not, you know, in any way preclude the fact we need to have a larger conversation about gun control in this country as a larger parameter. i'm a believer in the second amendment. i'm a combat veteran, a gun owner. but i know this, if you say that you need to have a rifle to go deer hunting, i get it. well, we use shotguns for turkey hunting, fine. what is the justification for an ak-47, ar-15? these are guns that were designed not to scare, not to hurt, but to kill. every time you pull that trigger, you know that the final conclusion at the end of it is probably going to be the loss of

life or whatever you're shooting at. we need to be honest about what's happened in this country, what is the justification for 160 pounds of ammunition ordered on-line and not to put a red flag on anyone's radar screen. this is taking place every single day and we're not -- we don't have the courage to have a conversation about it. >> david remnick, i mean looking at the weapons that this young man was able to purchase, it seemed like it all went through, it all came in the mail, he was able to get them, no questions asked? is that how it works? >> i agree -- >> should it? >>. >> it's a time for mourning but real political debate. we've been through this over. >> what are we going to debate that would work? >> presidential candidates and presidents have the duty and require the courage to take on this kind of question even when they see the votes are not with them. i realize the governor of colorado probably feels he can't say anything else he did because of the state he's in.

but a president and presidential candidate is duty bound to confront this even if the majority is not with him and the situation we're in is horrendous. we have double, double the gun ownership of any -- percentage of any country behind us. the country in second is yemen, which we think of as just a state of nature, yemen. and the amount of gun ownership and ill legality is fueling everything from murders we've seen like in colorado to the situation that we have in mexico in terms of the drug horrendous drug situation there and the violence had that comes with it and radicalization of the nra since the '60s and '70s when by the way it was nothing like the radical organization that it is now, is fueling this and fueling the politics. the notion of what the second amendment is has changed radically over the decades. it was understood in the 19th century and mostly through the 20th century that the second amendment was about militias and

armies, that had nothing to do with carrying concealed weapons. >> what are the laws and restrictions we should be debating here that could be in place that would prevent this? >> i have one. >> okay. >> you know, all matters of difficult public policy choices i like to refer to pat moynahan, and back in 1993 and 1994 pat moynahan said let's not have a conversation about gun control, guns don't kill people, ammunition kills people. raise taxes on high caliber ammunition where it makes impossible to afford. this guy buying 50,000 rounds of caliber bullets -- >> that's a warning snin raise taxes from 9%, the normal sales tax or whatever it is, raise taxes to 50% or 100%. >> he'll just find the money. >> not that easy. you're talking about in a lot of cases for this guy to have bought that ammunition, many thousands, many extra thousands of dollars for a lot of the gun crime that gets committed people

would not -- go at this problem in a different way. wouldn't affect the second amendment. >> put it on my credit card. >> well -- >> i'm being serious. >> not everybody has the kind of credit card capacity that many of the people around this table do. it's not like you can necessarily -- for a lot of people reduced means, this would actually be another impediment. there's no one solution to the problem. there's not one -- i don't want to use the silver bullet pun, but make it harder where you can make it harder. human evil will never be be eradicat eradicated, always gun crimes, always the second amendment. make marginal improvements and take steps in public policy to make these things less likely. >> a little less likely. >> everyone who's run for president as a democrat in the last few years, almost everyone, more pro gun control party, it's clear that solving this issue, having a national debate is not going to happen by somehow beating the nra. >> right. >> or winning in washington. we need to have a longer term, national grassroots discussion

about these issues. because the politicians are not afraid of the nra so much as they are afraid of the voters. and the reality is, people who live on the coasts who like to see lots of new gun control laws, that's not where the country is. >> here's a poll that came out in april in terms from the pew research center. gun control issue more important to protect the right to own guns versus controlling gun ownership. >> that's a 4% difference. a president who's -- who has the powers of persuasion that barack obama started out having, i think can get beyond just market solutions, which i don't think are necessarily a comprehensive solution, i don't think john is suggesting its is -- >> should there be bans on certain weapons? >> there have been bans and they let them expires. >> so let's look at, for example, i think we're almost a year to the day of the massacre in norway. >> yeah. >> and that happened at a country that has pretty strict gun rights. alex, what was in place and the

setting for this massacre? >> yeah. this man who killed over 70 people was able to circumvent, you need a license to own a gun, owner must have a written statement saying why he or she wants a gun and outright ban on automatic weapons and other powerful handguns. >> okay. >> so that wasn't very preventative. >> no. but you have a saturation of guns in this country we're up to 300 million guns, almost one gun per person in the united states, there's no question that with that many guns floating around and enough people that are out of their minds that once in a while you're going to have a terrible circumstance like we witnessed in colorado. it's not going to eradicate it to zero but it can cut it down. ask the people of chicago what's going on. ask the people of just about any city what's happened in their city from time to time in terms of the murder rates it's horrific it's not going to be reduced to zero and i don't think that's an argument for throwing up your hands and saying gun control can never work to any degree. that's a ridiculous argument.

>> we have situations where it's easier for a young person to get their hands on a gun than on health care. i mean, the proliferation of weapons inside of this country is absolutely astronomical and a correlation between the fact that we have a heavily armed nation and also high high violent ratios, dealing with guns. so these type of correlations cannot go ignored. and also, if you look at the fact that not again not just illegal guns but if you have felony records you're still allowed to go and apply for gun laws. all these restrictions that were then loosened. >> yeah. >> back a decade ago have not been put back into place and all things that are continuing to add to the amount of guns. >> i want to get to the mental health component but the issue with the gun shows which the loop holes have been closed but my husband is an investigative reporter and several times he looked at this under cover and went to the gun show with one of the victims of the virginia tech massacre and how you can buy all

these assault weapons, filled up our car. the guy comes home with all these guns. i'm like what are you doing. i'm trying to show the loop hole. it was insane what he could buy in the course of an hour. just no questions asked. >> no checks. >> no checks. how does that happen? but -- again, i think it's so complicated because he still can't -- >> what are we protecting? when we're allowing assault weapons to be on the open market, what are we protecting? what good, what public good are we protecting? i don't see it. i don't remotely see it. >> i don't disagree. the mental health aspect if you look at this guy's profile in retrospect shouldn't it have stood out? it's always easier to say that when you find out everything. but good lord, the way he was living, the blaring music coming out of his apartment at all hours. his behavior, voice mail. his appearance. >> i think the tragic fact is,

there are a lot of people that you could say that about. >> i know. >> in one way or another and you're never going to control all of it and never going to succeed in having social services deal with all of it. i think we could make an impact through gun control, not to shunt aside the notion of mental health. >> it's like, you know, as you're watching changes in behavior, that's one thing, loud music, dropping out of his academic program is one thing. then you couple that with the purchase of 160 pounds of ammuniti ammunition, now is when a red flag goes up, this stops becoming where we need to also look at his mental issue but potentially something can happen and we have to get more aggressive in terms of ways of treating and addressing it. >> do we know if he bought the ammunition from the same place or if he bought it in different, you know, to try to not make -- cover his tracks? >> seems like he bought it from a variety of different sources and much of it -- much of it

on-line. and -- >> that's a huge -- >> bulkamo.com. >> he bought a bunch of -- a bunch of these am new mission from -- ammunition from a website and chose the expedited two-day delivery on the delivery for the thing which again, in and of itself, should have thrown up some red flags. you need 300 magazines -- day after tomorrow. you might think that in and of itself might have caused someone to give someone pause. >> another public policy issue more positive that the president issued yesterday, post-9/11, we as a country decided we need to react to things like this much more quickly and from chief oates to the fbi, to the white house, i think it was incredible example of very quick information, to let the country know what's happening, to calm people down, to make people show this is isolated would not have happened that quickly after 9/11. the president singled out the local and state law enforcement and that's great for the country

that we're able to react like this, not only to limit the loss of life but the country of a mind when anything like this happens how big is this, and it's incredibly important to let people have information and in this case, government at all levels did. >> great point. >> let me get to the other headlines before we go to break here. "the wall street journal" is reporting the u.s. government is carrying out a secret campaign to help push syrian president bashar al assad from power without using force. the report claims the cia, state and treasury departments have taken new measures to block resources from syrian allies while providing critical intelligence to the rebel army. the efforts included convincing iraqi officials to shut down air space and block flights between iran and syria. u.s. intelligence believes tehran was flying weapons in to damascus and disguising the cargo as shipments of flowers. officials say the u.s. was providing intelligence to

military sources in turkey and jordan who then passed that information to rebels. american officials are pressing egypt also to block iranian ships from passing through the suez canal. major clashes between assad's government forces and the rebels broke out in two of the country's largest cities over the weekend. the assad regime has pushed opposition forces from parts of the capital. the rebels were overpowered by government troops and tanks. activists say at least 20 unarmed men suspected of aiding the rebels were executed. battles also raged in syria's biggest city, alepo, considered to be largely loyal to the assad regime. fighting there centered around police and intelligence headquarters. so many different moving parts here, but it sounds like we're getting some collective actions slowly. wes? >> it is. and not only is it ability about time but people starting to realize the political and financial futures are being aligned on this as well.

you do not want to be the nation that's on the outside on this issue. more nations are starting to realize that and the quicker we can get to that resolution the quicker we'll see genuine moment on assad's part to decide to move or he will be forced to move. >> so much more complicated than the u.s. trying to move in and fix everything. >> it certainly is. exposes the political interests in the region. it exposes and highlights iran's desperation to keep syria in place vis-a-vis hezbollah, for example. it highlights russia's interest in keeping its military client bashar al assad to remain in power. it just shows how difficult and unstable that region is and the potential for disaster down the line. >> and makes mitt romney's trip to israel this weekend very complicated. >> you're right. >> very complicated. >> he goes this weekend? >> israel over the weekend and all the issues that david mentioned including russia will all be implicated and he will have choices to make when the

president is dealing with all of these. >> what he says and how he says it that will be a tightrope for him. we have a lot of political headlines to get to. still ahead we'll get to those, plus we're going to be bringing in new york city mayor michael bloomberg. later this hour best selling spy novelist daniel silva takes us inside his latest thriller and chuck todd joins us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ovider is dt but centurylink is committed to being a different kind of communications company by continuing to help you do more and focus on the things that matter to you. ...more talk on social security... ...but washington isn't talking to the american people. [ female announcer ] when it comes to the future of medicare and social security, you've earned the right to know. ♪ ...so what does it mean for you and your family? [ female announcer ] you've earned the facts.

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. live shot of washington, d.c., as the sun comes up at 23 past the hour. better get ready for work now. joining us from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd already at work. >> good morning. >> you nbc news people in washington get to work so early. >> i wake up way too early. >> yeah. >> i can't say that to you. >> no. >> come on. >> you really can't, actually. >> i really can't do that.

>> i would suggest you don't. >> yes, ma'am. >> let's get to the political news here and talk bruce springsteen with david remnick, but first, i've been waiting to get to this story and the massachusetts senate race, chuck, democratic candidate elizabeth warren is on pace to become the top fund-raiser in the senate this year as she continues to run neck and neck against incumbent scott brown. according not "new york times" the first time candidate has pulled in almost $25 million so far making her the 15th most successful money razor in senate history. senator scott brown, though, his campaign argues that warren is much more of a national candidate for the extreme left. are you taking a picture of me? what's wrong with you? >> i have to feed twitter. >> yeah. extreme left than a candidate for mainstream massachusetts. i don't think so. i think they want a national figure running their state. of those who donated more than $200 to warren's campaign 60% came from out of state for

senator scott brown, opposite true for him, 60% of large donations came from within massachusetts. might explain why despite warren's fund-raising success the latest polls show this is still anyone's race, running neck and neck, chuck, and i hear there's rumblings she might get a speaking spot at the dnc, is that -- >> yeah. i would be shocked if she's not the keynote. there has been a lot of chatter, i think if it were a more nationally known hispanic figure that person would have been tapped to be the keynote speaker for the democrats for the national convention, but when you start looking at where they're going she excites the democratic base in a way there's really not a lot of other democrats besides the president that does that. so she makes a lot of sense for keynote, if not her, who? you know, there's really -- there's really the list of potential keynote folks gets really short after her. i mean, do you suddenly throw in

andrew cuomo. none of them may not have the same appeal as her. my joke about this race, winner runs for president, loser gets a talk show. it's not a bad way. i mean who knows which one is a better thing to happen. >> that's kind of an interesting point of view. i think for a first-time candidate how would you gauge how she's doing? she had one issue that really plagued her. but how is she handling this? >> i was going to say, i would only give her a b-minus. it's tough. i think the one -- they're handling of this -- of her native american roots was pretty bad. >> yeah. >> and that was rough in getting knocked off so easily. there is a question of how nimble is she? can she respond -- how does she handle coming under fire? she's, i think, terrific on television like scott brown is. >> she connects. >> two of them are the most --

this is a intel genic senate race, both compelling figures when they speak on television. a lot of advantages the two of them. when you look at her big sort of mini crisis moment of her campaign, you know, she didn't handle it so hot. but i think it's a -- it's probably a blip at the end of the day. >> look at what she wants to do and has done so far with the consumer protection bureau, i think she stands for what people, especially the middle class are looking for in this country. scott brown is a great candidate as well, john heilemann, but i don't know, elizabeth warren connects on a number of levels. >> scott brown connects on a number of levels. it's going to be a close race. it's an exciting one. i wanted to shift the focus for chuck back to the presidential campaign. mark mentioned, chuck, that mitt romney obviously going to be meeting with netanyahu and others in israel. let me ask the broader question. he is going to spend ten days abroad, olympics, poland,

israel, talk about the risk/reward campaign for the romney campaign what do they hope to get out of ten days and what could they lose in that time if things go bad? >> i think the way they've designed their trip when you compare it to the overseas trip that obama did, they've minimized their risk. there isn't a lot of risk here. i think when you look at they're doing it during the time of the olympics, so that it will be -- if there's a big gaffe, does something that's -- you know that on a -- under normal circumstances would get a lot of attention it's likely to get buried a little bit because of the olympics. i think they have designed a trip that's low risk. he's visiting where he's giving his two speeches are probably the two easiest places, two of the u.s. allies, two of the few u.s. allies that would say they miss the bush years. the challenge for romney in this, what kind of foreign policy is he going to outline

that is different from the bush/cheney foreign policy. how does he do it where does he do it? how does he address it? because that is something that wasn't popular, right? bush's -- you can sit here and look back when you ask voters to -- when you ask voters about bush and the bush years, the thing that bothers them the most has to do with foreign policy. how does romney walk that tightrope? mark brought up before the break the issue of syria and in the moment and how he handles that. a lot of what romney has done on foreign policy is criticized the president without giving any specifics of what he'd do differently. would he add troops to iraq? would he postpone the withdraw in afghanistan? how exactly would he help the opposition in syria? he's said some things, about us then not talked about it -- backed it up with specifics. >> chuck i'm going to shift the conversation to bruce

springsteen now, because david remnick -- >> natural transition. >> exactly. >> adam sandler thinks he's jewish. >> exactly. david profiles bruce springsteen at the age of 62 in the latest issue of "the new yorker," chuck you take it since you are a bruce expert, take it to david out of the read. you write david in part, unlike the rolling stones, say, who have not written a great song since the disco era and come together only to pad their fortunes as their own cover band, springsteen refuses to be a mer sin nary curator of his past. he continues to evolve as an artist filling one spiral notebook after another, with ultimately new songs. his latest album "wrecking ball" is a melodic indictment of the recessionary moment of income disparity and what he calls the distance between the american reality and dream. the work remote from humid

summer interludes and abandoned out on the turnpike. can you keep reading? that's great. beautifully written. chuck todd. >> apparently i'm supposed to -- i'm not going to pretend to be a bruce expert. david, you sound like this is -- you know, not to create generational warfare here, but this is, you know, you baby boomers sticking together. >> this baby boomer is really influential on really young bands like arcade fire and so on. >> that is true. >> if you went to about any musician in their 20s and asked bruce springsteen had any relevance now they would say yes. i feel no terrible guilt about writing about him any more than you would about paul mccartney at this point. >> fair. >> heilemann? >> david, do you think he's in any way flagging? i mean it's kind of amazing when he did the last tour at the end he was doing like the full covers of the whole albums there was a sense of, you know, the estreet band coming to an end and maybe he won't be back for a long time ago. people had that feeling.

people thought we might not see him for years. two years later he's back again. >> and two people in the band died. clarence clemens died, other people, i mean when you're 62 years old, it's no longer a shock when people around you get sick or die and that's part of the theme of the tour they're on. they're in europe and something back to the states to do stadiums in the late summer and early fall. i think to the only is politics a theme, but also, life. what happens to you when you're no longer 23 years old and concerned about the jersey turnpike and your latest girlfriend? physically, remarkably, the guy is ridiculous. >> it's ridiculous. >> like sning more so. the show -- >> more than sting? >> the shows go three hours, 45 minutes routinely and he's not just kind of strumming an akoousic guitar behind a mike. >> same can be said for paul mccartney too. >> it's two people that physically i can't understand how they hold up.

bruce and max wineberg. max is back there working not the rest of the band, but the two of them, physically, look like they work harder than any two. >> max wineberg seven operations on his hand, prostate cancer, heart stuff, and for three hours and 50 minutes he's booming away like ginger baker. >> wes? >> it's interesting one of the things that fascinates me about springsteen is there are a lot of artists, musicians who stay away from anything that looks like politics. because as, you know, as the old, you know, michael jordan story goes, republicans buy sneakers too. they stay away from politic because it hurts their bottom line. this is a person who has never done that. >> republicans buy bruce springsteen too. ask chris christie. >> he has to. >> it's a -- depressed fallen governor of new jersey. >> it's an interesting testament to bruce springsteen the fact that he is then using his celebrity for something. he's actually -- he has no problem getting into the political fray, no problem

getting into presidential politics, singing songs about messages and issues. >> disparity. >> that people should hear about. >> because he got older. these subjects came to him later in life when he started out politics was nowhere near his work. >> how is he selling? >> i think the economic engine of springsteen is filling stadiums. the record business is over for almost -- >> filling stadiums, the songs about disparity. >> absolutely. >> chuck todd, thank you. >> you got it. >> we'll see you ahead on "the daily run down." still ahead best selling novelist silva, and penn state pulls down its statute of joe paterno. now its football program facing crippling fines from the ncaa. reaction from the school and paterno family when "morning joe" comes back. with the spark miles card from capital one,

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welcome back. 38 past. today the ncaa is expected to announce its punishment against penn state university in the wake of the child sex abuse scandal. yesterday morning before dawn, construction crews under the orders of penn state's president began removing the iconic statute of coach joe paterno who died six months ago.

an internal report found that top university officials including coach paterno were involved in covering up sex abuse allegations against former defensive coach jerry sandusky for a decade. the ncaa says the punishment will be, quote, corrective and punitive. a source who spoke with "the new york times" says it would include a stiff financial penalty, a number of lost scholarships, a postseason bowl ban, and the freedom for penn state football players to transfer to other schools. also the paterno family was not happy about the statute coming down, saying in a statement tearing down the statute of joe paterno does not serve the victims of jerry sandusky's horrible crimes or help heal the penn state community. no word on what will happen to the statute which the university says is now in a secure location. wes i saw you shaking your head. where do you want to start with this? >> joe paterno's name is still going to be on the library. >> yeah. >> of penn state as an honor of

the contributions and accomplishments he's made. however, we cannot ignore what happened at penn state under his watch that happened knowingly to the coach. this is where, you know, i -- this is where i really kind of fall off the argument about he wasn't involved in criminal actions. when you look at other schools that have gone through punishments whether the usc case and such, these were football-related infractions. these were recruiting violations which are bad and against law, but happened on the football field. this is something where you had a grown man repeatedly and serially raping children on campus and senior officials at the school knew about it and said nothing. >> all the accomplishments after those moments where they knew about it and said nothing, mean nothing. >> that's exactly right. >> because they shouldn't have necessarily happened. something should have changed immediately. >> all sympathy is to the victims. these people were raped and some of them as children as

adolescents, i couldn't care less about this statute. i could not. unfortunately, paterno was complicit in this. i feel terrible for his family. and joe paterno is no longer with us, which complicates the story in a certain way. but i -- with all due respect to the people there, i wouseeing t statute removed -- it's a horrible thing but i can't get worked up about a stoots staths out >> david remnick, thanks very much. your piece in the latest issue of "the new yorker." still ahead, "forbes" magazine reveals the highest paid actresses in tv and what that tells us about the media's most valued demographics. >> let me guess. >> betty white. >> kardashian. keep it here on "morning joe."

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joining us now on set "new york times" best-selling author daniel silva with his new book "the fallen angel." it is his 15th, that's 1-5, 15th novel. you're crazy. how are you doing? >> better now that this is finally done. >> yeah. it's like giving birth, isn't it? >> it's more prolonged than child birth. i mean -- >> oh! oh! you know what, you're probably the only person who can say that that's because i love you and your wife is jamie gangel. >> it lasts a little longer. >> she's going to kill you for saying that. >> prolonged illness. >> when i compare book writing to giving birth my wife is quick to tell me -- >> there's not that -- >> there's not that couple of hours of extreme pain but it's spread out over longer periods. >> it is his 15th.

i think he's allowed to make the parallel, but -- so what is it like when you're on deadline and trying to get through a book? i want to hear about the book. what's it like in your household when you're not getting there and you feel like your brain doesn't work and can't write anymore? >> i don't quite have that feeling. >> oh, good. >> i came from journalism. when i go to the office i sit and write. but i am locked down in the basement office of our house. i live in gray sweat pants and slippers. it's cold down there. i really sit at my desk for about 12 to 14 hours a day writing during the last few weeks trying to get it done. >> painful. "the fallen angel" tell us about this. >> it is the 12th novel to feature gable, an israeli intelligence officer who has an

interesting cover job, one of the world's finest art restorers. this book opens, gable is restoring a masterpiece at the vatican when a curator from the vatican museum is found dead in st. peter's basilica. gabe yell is asked to investigate her death by the vatican and his investigation leads him into the world of antiquities smuggling, into the terror finance network of hezbollah, and eventually into a plot to bring about a terrorist attack that could truly bring about a war in the middle east of apocalyptic proportions. >> when working on a book like this, however do you get out of the basement and gray slippers and blue sweat pants and go to the vatican, to the old city, big part of this book and try to gather scenery, meet characters and limit and feel -- >> the summer before.

so when i did this book, i spent a month in rome in the vatican and jerusalem in the old city. i spent as much time on scene as possible. gabriel was working in the restoration labs at the vatican. i went into the ves tore rags -- restoration labs of the vatican. gabriel was working in effect for the pope. i spent as much time as possible around the pope. processed through the streets of rome behind the pope on the feast of corpus christi, a few paces behind him. when we went to jerusalem, spent a great deal of time underneath jerusalem and i suspect you've been down into the tunnels along the western wall in the city of david. there is -- jerusalem is, obviously, a very old city, a number of empires have come and gone through there. it is layered upon layered of history and to go underneath it is absolutely fascinating. >> beyond the intrigue, what are

maybe some of the lessons in the book? it's described as a story of faith and the power of secrets? >> well, it does deal with the religious history of jerusalem. i think that as we look at the middle east, right now, and this so-called arab spring that has turned into something else, i think what we see is an arab world that is becoming more populist and more religious and more islamic at the same time and i think that ultimately, the conflict between the arab world and israel will become even more religious than it already is. and this book deals with a very specific point of contention in the conflict and that is the temple mount in jerusalem. it is an extraordinarily powerful symbol. it is also a very dangerous situation. and i think that it could spark

the third or next round of violence as it did the last one. >> harold ford jr. >> you think what it portends, this rise and the importance of religion between these two religion between these two entities within the middle east which has dominated political conversation, do you think it leads to -- >> because it seems to be the freedom and populism and the advance of technology and what that may lead to. you say it could cause a p proliferati proliferation -- >> it's only a matter of time before the arab spring comes to israel. this is my concern. there's absolutely no movement on the peace process. at some point, i believe that as the arab world sorts itself out, that their attention is really going to become focused on israel again. and i know for sure that inside the israeli intelligence

services and the military, they are watching the events in egypt with unbelievable amount of concern. something that's not getting talked about right now is that the sinai is completely out of control. there are -- there are elements of al qaeda, hezbollah, every bad guy in the arab world is in sinai right now. it is like the bar in "star wars" out there. the central government has lost the will or the ability to control the situation. egypt, and this is a great fear within israeli intelligence that, it could become a failed state of 80 million or 90 million people on a little ribbon of land. >> finally, daniel silva, did you say this is your 12th novel? >> my 12th novel featuring gabriel. 15th overall. >> what is your connection with thin this character beyond the fact that it's a best selling

concept? >> it's the family of characters around him that they really do begin to inhabit your lives. you do think about them as real characters. they are as real to me as sometimes as the people around me. when i do go to israel as i did last summer and spend time with people in the intelligence services and the military, i see different versions of them, and i spent time with them. so it's been a -- it's been a very special journey. it was one that was never supposed to happen. i never had planned to turn gabriel elan into a continuing character. it's been a lot of fun. >> those are the best things in life, the things that you don't plan. book is "the fallen angel." daniel silva, it's great to see you. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

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over gun rights in america following the tragic mass shooting in colorado. we'll hear from both sides of the issue and ask new york city mayor michael bloomberg what he wants to hear from the presidential candidates. mayor bloomberg joins the table just ahead on "morning joe." i just want to give her everything. [ whistles ]

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life continues. and people are strong. and people bounce back. and people are resilient. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up as we take a live look at new york city. joe and i are back with mark halperin and. we're going to begin this morning with the tragedy in colorado. the suspect 24-year-old james holmes is scheduled to make his first court appearance since the friday shooting that left 12 people dead and 58 injured. officials say he is not cooperating and a motive is still not clear. police have finished collecting evidence from the suspect's apartment that was booby-trapped with a complex array of explosives. the associated press reports that investigators also found a batman mask in the apartment. the rest of the apartment

building remains shut down due to chemical hazards. we've also learned the suspect applied to join a local gun range last month but was rejected after the club's owner heard what he described as a bizarre message on the alleged gunman's voice mail. president obama flew into aurora yesterday afternoon to meet privately with victims' families and to show his support. >> i confessed to them that words are always inadequate in these kinds of situations. but that my main task was to serve as a representative of the entire country and let them know that we are thinking about them at this moment and will continue to think about them each and every day. i also tried to assure them that although the perpetrator of this evil act has received a lot of attention over the last couple of days, that attention will

fade away. and in the end, after he has felt the full force of our justice system, what will be remembered are the good people who were impacted by this tragedy. >> and the tragedy in colorado has reignited the debate over gun control. police say the ammunition, gear and four weapons used in the attack including an assault rifle, are believed to have been purchased legally. the suspect apparently received up to 50 packages in the mail in the four months leading up to the attack. he purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet. one law enforcement official says the massacre could have been far worse if the shooter's semiautomatic rifle hadn't jammed. as investigators believe it had. new york city mayor michael bloomberg yesterday called on the two presidential candidates to lead a national debate on gun control. >> somebody's got to do something about this, and this

requires and particularly in a presidential year the candidates for president of the united states to stand up and once and for all say, yes, they feel terrible, yes, it's a tragedy, yes, we will have great sympathy for the families but it's time for this country to do something. and that's the job of the president of the united states. and i don't know what they're going to do. but i think it's incumbent on them to tell us specifically, not just in broad terms. it's time i think that we hold them accountable and say okay, you want our votes. what are you going to do? >> but others like colorado governor john hickenlooper express doubt that more gun regulation would prevent shootings like the one friday in aurora. >> if you look at this person, again, almost a creature, i mean, if he couldn't have access to the guns, what kind of bomb would he have manufactured? we're at a time, the information age where there's access to all kinds of information. he was diabolical.

demonic in this twisted sense. i think of him almost as a terrorist. he wanted to take away not just the people in that theater but from the country our ability to enjoy life, to go to a movie theater which is for most of us a ref future where we can get away from some of the pressures of life. i'm not sure -- it's a human issue in some way. how are we not able to identify someone like this who is so deeply, deeply disturbed? >> by the way, joe, mayor bloomberg is going to be on the show later on. we can talk more with him about that. certainly extremely convoluted issue. >> it is a convoluted issue. and that's why -- i think a lot of americans would like to see -- play itself out later. let families bury their dead loved ones and take care of those that are still struggling for life in hospitals right now. it's always unbecoming after

every shooting that both sides will come out and decide that now is the perfect time to have the gun control debate. and i've got to say, i agree with the governor that it's a mental health issue and that the united states doesn't do enough in this area on mental health. but again, this is a debate i personally believe let's have this debate in a week, in two weeks. when you start seeing editorials on both sides deciding to weigh in when people are dying, it's unfortunate. i do want to say that the president, i liked seeing the president do what presidents really do best, and that is comfort in a time of need, whether it was ronald reagan during the "challenger" accident, whether it was bill clinton after oklahoma city, george w. bush standing on the pile of rubble after 9/11. only a president can do what

barack obama did, and that is talk to those affected by such up unspeakable tragedy and bring at least a little bit of comfort. >> yeah, i couldn't agree more. i think in terms of the gun control debate though, steve ratner, one of the arguments mayor bloomberg has and joe's point is well taken, it's always right after these events that everyone seizes the moment to jump on the debate, but the argument bloomberg has is that obama hasn't had this debate, that he has not taken this on. if not now, when? >> well, it's not an issue at the moment. i agree with joe that there is a period of mourning, if you will, where it's probably not exactly the right time. i agree with joe and others who are saying it's not just a gun problem, it's a social problem, a problem of identifying in these young kids those that may be problematic. i get the fact that there are 150 million guns out there. i don't for the life of me understand what legitimate purpose anyone has for carrying an assault weapon, what

legitimate purpose anyone has for carrying a semiautomatic pistol, and the idea that we don't have laws about that i find remarkable. i do agree with you that when you look back after the tragic shooting of ronald reagan and the jim brady campaign and the progress that was made off of that tragedy, i think you want good things to come from tragedies, make the best of a terrible situation. i do agree with the mayor. i think it's time for both the presidential candidates to say where they are on this issue and hopefully make some progress on it. it's inexcusable that we as a country could be in this position. >> it's so interesting, joe, when you look at these cases, the mental health aspects of it, could you list issues with this young man than clearly should be warning signs but they always seem so clear in retrospect, don't they? >> there's no doubt about it. you know, i looked at the virginia tech shooter. i look at this shooter. so many shooters like this are young males. in fact, before, of course, you

don't want to be generalize, but as soon as i heard about this shooting i knew who it was. i knew it was a young white male, probably frarn affluent neighborhood, disconnected from society. it happens time and time again. and i think a lot of it has to do, again, most of it has to do with mental health. you have these people that are somewhere i believe probably on the autism scale. i don't know if that's the case here, but it happens more often than not. people that can walk around in society, that can function on college campuses, can even excel in college campuses but are socially disconnected. i have a son who has as berger's who is loved by everybody in his family and who is wonderful, but it is for those that may not have a loving family and a

support group and may be a bit further along on the autism -- and extraordinarily frustrating, terrible, terrible challenge day in and day out. and so i do think, again, i don't know the specifics about this young man, but we see too many shooters in these type of tragedies bearing the same -- the same characteristics mentally. so, that's why i feel the way i do about health care. john heilemann though, and mark halperin, we really have had a debate about gun control and we've had a debate over the past 20 years, and the supporters of gun control have lost. i remember back in the '90s, after a similar tragedy having a debate. and actually watching conservative democrats stand up. i think at the time it was john dingell and john murtha who stood up and killed president

clinton's effort at further gun control. i think this debate has been had. >> well, there's no question that the example of what happened in 1994 when a lot of democrats at least by conventional wisdom lost their seats because of the efforts that president clinton pursued to do gun control, that kind of killed the appetite for a lot of people to have this debate. the nra is an extraordinarily powerful interest group in washington, some people think it's the most powerful interest group but to come back to steve's points, he think there's a -- there's got to be a way to have a conversation that's not necessarily about gun control but is about things that i think most americans think would be sensible, regulation. this guy bought 3,000 rounds of handgun ammunition, 3,000 rounds for an assault rifle, 350 shells for a .12-gauge shotgun and a drum magazine large enough to hold 100 rounds capable of firing 50 or 60 rounds per

minute. now, i just don't understand how the second amendment, every amendment in our bill of rights and constitution has reasonable limits on it. there must be some way whether through taxation or at least through notification when people.go out and buy vast quantities of ammunition and spees clips that don't have anything to do with self-defense or about hunting. >> we're going to move on to other news. today the ncaa is expected to announce its punishment against penn state in the wake of the child sex abuse scandal. yesterday morning before dawn, construction crews under the orders of penn state's president began removing the iconic statue of coach joe paterno who died six months ago. an internal report found that top university officials including coach paterno were involved in covering up sex abuse allegations against against former defensive coach jerry sandusky for a decade. the ncaa says the punishment will be "is corrective and

punitive." a source who spoke with the fork times" says it will include a stiff financial penalty, a number of lost scholarships, a postseason bowl ban and the freedom for penn state football players to transfer to other schools. also, the paterno family was not happy about the statue coming down saying in a statement, tearing down the statue of joe paterno does not be the victims of jerry sandusky's horrible crimes or help heal the penn state community. no word on what will happen to the statue which the university says is now in a secure location. i wonder if, what, penn state will look like come september after this all comes down. joe? >> i don't know. this is surreal. loved and respected joe paterno for decades have by extension loved the team that he coached that played football with class. it's a remarkable school. and has always been a remarkable

organization, but the fact is, willie geist, that the pa tern know family in that statement shouldn't have just talked about jerry sandusky's victims, they were also joe paterno's victims because he was part of a much bigger cover-up, and willie, we've been suggesting, i've been suggesting and we all have agreed across the table from the moment this horrible story broke, that penn state should have voluntarily said we got it. we understand. we're going to shut down our program for a year. it's going to be our decision not the ncaa's. we're going to spend every saturday calling people to the stadium in happy valley and reflecting on what our school did, and we're going to become a better school because of it. but they have dragged their feet. and they've now left themselves in a position where the ncaa is having to come in and punish them in a way that actually may

be worse. >> well, a lot of cynics think they actually took the statue down ahead of this ncaa decision because that would somehow mitigate. it was too little too late as it turned out. as regards the statute, i know joe paterno did good things over his long career there, but covering up the rape of children supersedes any of those. you cannot have a statute of a man who helped cover up child rain standing in front of are stadium. on the ncaa question, they're saying there are going to be huge penalties, not the death penalty probably but bowl sanctions meaning you can't play in the postseason for three, five, maybe more years. that's going to run off all recruits who want to play in a bowl and national championship. take away scholarship reductions, a big financial penalty. in the past, the ncaa have only overseen the rules that they have. they don't step in to criminal questions normally.

this is new ground for them. some people say it's a dangerous precedent where they could step in and take away scholarships and things from other programs based on other criminal activity. but something had to be done here as you say, joe. the university didn't do enough. so the ncaa is going to step in and really hammer penn state this morning. >> coming up next, new york city mayor michael bloomberg who is calling on both presidential candidates to stand up on the issue of guns. the mayor joins us on set next. bill karins with a check of the forecasting. >> thunderstorms in the forecast today along with a lot of laut conditions. let me start with who is seeing the worst weather in the country. thunderstorms with a lot of lightning rolling out of the catskills and southern portions of the hudson valley now entering into areas of connecticut. including the hartford area towards the coast around bridgeport, thunderstorms will be arriving as we go throughout the next hour or two. making a slow drive on interstate 94 and 90. the weather pattern across the country, this week the heat dome

slowly is going to get knocked to the south with some cold fronts. not today. it's relentless, day after day. kansas city today 104 along with st. louis, wichita, chicago near 100 today, but then the thunderstorms will cool you off late in the day. could even see strong storms today from chicago to detroit to pittsburgh. so your forecast, if you want cool weather, the pacific northwest. what a summer it hasn't been. 67 in seattle today. san francisco only 68. so the middle of the country bakes while the great lakes and the northeast get ready for some thunderstorms during your afternoon. washington, d.c., you're dry most of today. thunderstorms very late this evening. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ cellphone rings ] the wife. hey, babe. got the jetta. i wiped the floor with the guy! not really. i would've been fine with 0% for 36 months,

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it's time for this country to do something, and that's the job of the president of the united states. it's time i think that we hold them accountable and say okay, you want our votes. what are you going to do? >> president obama, mr. romney, i think they should give it a lot of consideration. i think this is a bad time to broach a new subject but there has been no action. >> you realize that even the kinds of ingredients you can find in your own kitchen can be used to make bombs. so the problem here is with the people and not with the tools. >> everything should be looked at but to think that somehow gun control is or increased gun control is the answer in my view, that would have to be proved. >> the shooting in colorado sparking a debate on gun control again, and here with us now, the

mayor of new york city and co-chair of the organization mayors against illegal guns, mayor michael bloomberg. this has been one of your signature issues and you've made some changes here in new york for sure, the loopholes among other things. but when you're talking to the candidates as you did on "face the nation" saying what are you going to do, what is it you'd want them to do? >> they both want a job that during the next presidential term you will see 48,000 americans shot with illegal guns. >> uh-huh. >> how can you run for that job without having a plan of what are you going to do? i thought the president was eloquent when he went to colorado. the president did one of his responsibility to go and express the country's remorse. he did that very well. but nevertheless, for the future, he and governor romney have to tell the public what they're going to do. and if they don't, you're going to have to vote for one of the two of them.

i think if you really take a look here, there's a big chunk of the public that's going to vote for romney no matter what, roughly equal size that's going to vote for obama and for romney. and it's the middle, those are the people who aren't ideologues. they want an answer to questions like this. and in the end, they're going to decide the election. so people say it's bod politics to address the issue. i think they're wrong. i'm going to try to stir it up. you ask one of the families is this the time to focus on how to keep their other children from getting killed? i think they would be on the side of do it now. >> i couldn't agree with you more. the question i have though, specially given the difference that you've made on this issue yourself, you would know more than anybody that once you plug one hole, there's ten others in which people can use. these people, deranged people can use to get ammunition to create havoc if they feel like it. >> there's lots of problems in the world. just because they're complex doesn't mean you shouldn't try

and solve them. just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you shouldn't do what is practical. you can't let the perfect get if the ways of making progress. we are the only developed country in the world that has the number of guns per capita that we do. it's so far off the charts, you can't present it at the same time. in the united states, we have federal laws that say you can't sell guns to minors, to drug addicts, to people with psychiatric problems and people with criminal records. and then we deliberately make sure those laws are not enforced. at one point, congress thought it was appropriate to pass those laws. but it's a joke to pass a law and then wink wink but we're not going to enforce it. same thing is true with the assault weapon ban. governor romney when he was the governor of massachusetts, a state i came from, he signed and talked favorably about a ban on assault weapons. massachusetts banned assault weapons. the president of the united states, barack obama, when he was campaigning, he campaigned

in favor of a ban on assault weapons. where are they? >> uh-huh. mark halperin. >> you talk publicly this. privately when you talk to governor romney, the president, what do you tell you the reason is they don't share your view? >> any private conversation i had is going to stay private. there is a perception among the political world that the nra has more power than the american people. i don't believe that. i think that people -- that you see elected officials, it's not just the presidential candidates, it is the elected officials in the legislatures and governors across the state, not mayors. mayors are in the solutions business. mayors have to do something. but at the state and federal level, executive and legislativetive branches they think that the nra is going to control their destiny. i think maybe in a perverse way the nra will control their destiny to their down fall. at some point in time, people will say enough of this. >> you dispute the notion that

where we are today, that voters who care about stopping new restrictions on guns care more passionately about that as a voting issue than people that agree with you? >> no, i think people that care about no ban, do not want any restrictions whatsoever on the kind of weapon or how much ammunition you can buy, they're going to vote for a candidate and have already made up their minds who that candidate is and you're never going to change it. it is that group in the middle, the people who aren't ideologues. they don't say i'm opposed to something just because i'm opposed to it. they say let's look at all the different issues. the supreme court said second amendment right to bear arms but there are reasonable restrictions that can be put on it. nobody's going to take away your right to bear arms, to hunt and that sort of thing. but when you see a rifle advertised on the internet able to bring down a commercial airliner at a mile and a half, that's not going after deer.

6,000 rounds of ammunition, doum how many deer or armor piercing bullets in when is the last time you saw a deer with a flak jacket on. >> blow the dear up. >> along those lines, legislators aren't necessarily the one who's get the phone calls at midnight saying we've had people just killed in the south bronx or the southside of chicago. it's mayors, executives. >> it's not just big city mayors. the crime rate per capita in rural areas is the same virtually as in urban areas in the north and south and east-west, republican, democrat, liberal and conservative districts. this is a problem across the country. yes, they get the calls and have to do something about it. there was a mayor from a very conservative part of florida who joins our mayor's coalition against guns. i called him up five years ago and said you're going to get really hurt at the ballot box on this. he said i'm not going to get re-elected unless i do something about crime. he did get re-elected after

joining the mayor's coalition. >> let me ask you, we were trying to stay away about the silver bullets and the notion there's one solution. >> there isn't. >> if you could kcould fiat hav thing that the government could do, what would it be? >> plug the one or two loopholes in the laws they already passed and then fund the enforcement of it. we haven't had the head of alcohol, tobacco and firearms because the president can't get anybody thu congress. we don't have monies to enforce the laws. the states aren't putting data into the database. there's a gun show loophole where we require everybody to have a background check but not for casual purposes. when you see a dealer at a gun show, that's not casual, that's a business. most gun dealers in this corrupt, 99% follow the law. it's not onerous and it really does work. a company like walmart, it's the biggest seller of guns in america. they follow the law. they do background checks.

takes 24 hours. sure somebody slips through but from a practical point of view, they're doing what we have to do. all we've got to do is follow the promises that were made by the elected officials back when they were pandering and said we're going to fix this problem. to those that say look, this is about gun control, it isn't. it's about crime control. this isn't about somebody else, it's about you and your kids. we've got to do something about this. and how anybody can run for highest office in the country we're 48,000 people are going to get killed in the next four years and not have a plan. maybe they do, maybe they have a secret plan to end the war. people say, well you shouldn't address it now because we're in a time of crisis and mourning. yeah, well, 18 months since arizona. and we did nothing. if not now, when are you going to do this. >> it will only get worse. we only have 30 seconds left. i want to ask you something on one other issue you've been extremely strong on. there are reports coming out

about all these food restrictions in new york city and you being accused of trying to lead a nanny state. i don't think so. the transfat restrictions apparently working. hello, working. you've got the size of soda. >> that's all we're doing is reducing the size cup they can use. >> where do you get next with this? >> we're going to give people the ability to make an intelligent choice but try to guide them into what is right for them. so give them calorie counts so they know. make them have to reach for the second cup if they want to drink an awful lot of calories. but let me point out in new york city life expectancy is now three years greater than the country on average. just think about that. you're going to complain about all thetings weigh want. lowest murder rate, lowest deaths by fire we've had, lowest deaths in traffic accidents, fewer people dying of smoking. the one problem this country is facing from a public health issue is obesity. it's going to kill more people than smoking.

it's the first time you've had a rich man's disease become a poor man's disease. we have to do something about it. more people -- it's not just america. more people will die this year of overweight than of starvation in the world. first time in the history of the world. >> unbelievable. not to talk about our health care crisis and how that plays into it. mayor, thank you very much for everything you're doing. up next, how the small screen's highest paid actresses are reshaping the tv landscape. "morning joe" will be right back. i am you and you are me if you want it, you just got to believe. weight watchers i believe strength [ jennifer ] confidence

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you stupid animal. i'll call you back. >> bad doggie. do you want to chew on something? okay, okay, okay. look at this. look at this. delicious men's shoe. eat it, come on. eat it. eat it. mm. yummy. eat the shoe. eat his shoe. come on. eat his shoe. iam,ia iaum.

yum. delicious. >> mom. >> drop it. please, i'm sorry you had to see this. >> that was funny. according to forbes magazine, "modern family's" columbia born star sophia vergara, is tv's best paid actress. her star power demonstrates an emerging new market in media. randall lane, the latest issue of forbes is the $1 trillion hispanic market and the ability of companies to dominate it. how much does she make? >> in the last 12 months, $19 million. >> that's pretty good. >> what's amazing, this is a woman who she says on the first big star with an accent since ricky ricardo and dez i arnaz and she makes it in spite of her

latin roots but because of them. she's doing commercial endorsements in spanish and english. it's an asset, not a hindrance. that's a real turning point. >> she's developing a brand. >> in two languages. >> not bad. who else is on the list? >> we have sophia vergara is number one and we have eva longoria is number three. two latina actresses. the only two in the top five who are script actresses. the rest are reality stars are latinas. >> eva longoria is desperate housewives. what other shows? >> producing a new reality show for nbc, she does endorsements. "desperate housewives" if their last year they were each earning about $8 million each from the show. that's why a lot of these shows eventually go on the air. eventually the actors their salaries get higher and higher. >> are these best paid women? >> yes, this is just actresses. >> how do they stack up to the best paid men?

>> very well. television is a different ball game. if we looked at movies, tom cruise is making $20 million, $25 million a mean. but for television, again, when you have sophia vergara, she's not just making it from tv, she's making it from endorsements. she owns her own production company and talent agency where if you feed a latina actor or actress you have to go through sophia vergara. >> who is number two on the list? >> number two is kim kardashian. my daughter's here, she just woke up for the first time all morning. unbelievable. >> she does it again, she is not just from what she makes from her show. they just reupped, the family just got a $30 million package to reup their show. she's doing it from endorsements, they've got a new store. the kardashian family has a store in the mirage casino. a clothing line at sears. that's where we all buy our kardashian merchandise. >> i just don't get it.

and her sister's on the list too. >> how much is she making for the people who employ here? is she making a lot? >> these unscripted shows are cash cows because they're very cheap to make. they can throw them a couple million in salary but it's a win-win. they make her famous. and she makes money from being famous. everybody's a winner here. it's why reality has swept television in the last ten years. cheap programming and bethenny frankel is on the list as well, she's number 4. she made $12 million. most of her money is not from her show. now she has her own talk show, her skinny girl line. that's worth over $100 million from selling these kind of diet drinks and things like that. these reality stars use their family to make money in other ways. so everyone's a winner. >> and then number five? >> khloe kardashian. >> is tina fey on the list. >> tied for five with khloe.

we have substance with tina. >> so is there -- i keep going back to this. is there a list of top paid male? >> we have that coming out. >> i'm just wondering how big the gap is between the top paid male versus the top paid fee pail. >> fundamentally, historically, it doesn't make -- in the last years it hasn't made a huge difference. if you look at "friends," the women were making as much as the men. the women were probably bigger stars than the men. it's just a question of who people will tune into. sophia vergara just like we saw. >> they'll tune in. the men will tune in. >> talk more about the cover story about the hispanic media market. for a long time the hispanic language has been dominated by univision and now it seems like because of the growth of the hispanic population, it's a huge market. talk about what mainstream television is doing to try to crack the market.

>> they're doing the math. we just saw the 2010 census comes out. we have the hispanic market is a $1 trillion, $1 trillion market if the u.s. hispanic market was its own country, it would be the ninth largest economy in the world. that's going to $1.5 trillion in 2015 in three years. this is growing exponentially. you have murdoch. you have disney with abc, comcast and nbc have done this math and said we have to get in there. univision has a 73% market share. that can get carved off and there's a lot of money there. it's not a niche anymore. it used to be we'll have our little niche there. this is not niche. this is big, big money. if you want growth, this is where you go for growth. look at the demographics. the average latino in america is 27, average anglo the median is 42. so if you want branding, if you're an advertiser and you want to brand people, see where

the spending is going, it's the hispanic market. >> it's interesting, too, because you look at who the actresses on the list are. they've been at this game for a while. sophia vergara, eva long goria, tina fey. you look at the reality stars, this is relatively new to them which is an interesting dynamic that's changing how you can become that wealthy that quickly. >> the andy warhol effect and how long can they make it last. we could all quibble with what the kardashians are doing to culture but they have figured out how to making that 15 minutes last an hour or two. >> what have they done to our culture. >> they're giving people you know, they're feeding them the wonder bread they want. >> have they added anything good, anything good and productive for children. >> i think they make us feel proud to be americans? >> you just about summed up there in that very sarcastic comment. the story's in the latest issue of forbes magazine. it's a good one.

you'll love the cover. coming up next with some highly anticipated earnings reports, what they might tell us about the state of the economy. before the bell with brian sullivan is next. i'm barack oba ma and i approve this message. [romney singing]: oh beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains majesty, above the fruited plain,

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and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take corol of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. profit estimates are creeping downward for top u.s. companies and that could mean something far more serious for our economy. let's get a kek on business before the bell with brian sullivan live at cnbc global headquarters. brian, what's the prediction for the second half of the year? >> you know, it's not looking good. we got a story on cnbc.com this morning. i made the mistake of reading it

last night so i couldn't fall asleep. it basically is if you look at the earnings expectations for what companies are saying and what analysts think they'll earn, it's pointing toward a greater likelihood of recession. those estimates continue to get ratcheted down. these are largely, i don't want to say opinions because companies can change their forecasts. but right now, it's not looking too good for the second half. this is a gigantic week for earnings. earnings seasons, this is probably the biggest weak of this quarter. we've got a couple companies you might have heard about, apple and facebook set to release their numbers this week. i know the facebook numbers are going to be so scrutinized. first one is a public company and a window into weather facebook's advertising model, its business model itself is working the way it's supposed to. what did "the new york times" call it, a day of judgment. >> yeah, really. they need some good news. but markets around the world,

how are they looking at this point? down i take it? >> yeah, exactly. it's the same old fears. it may be breakfast in america but it feels like groundhog day. one of the regions in spain, valencia asking for a bailout over the weekend. new rhetoric between germany and greece. you know, about 23 hours ago, i was building sandcastles on the beach with my 8-year-old daughter. i want to go back to the beach. >> yeah. yeah, i understand that feeling. >> happy monday, mika. >> just saying. brian sullivan. >> so cheerful. isn't he in. >> yeah. he just wants to be in his own little world. he wants to be in an 8-year-old world which don't we all. >> i live in a 14-year-old world anyway. >> i have my 14-year-old here with me and has yet so far to be rude to me but there's still

time. brian sullivan, thank you very much. coming up, how the party reagan built is letting had imdown in his own state. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy?

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>> time now to do some west coast papers. you guys are going to help me out. i'll do the first one and you guys take it away. the san jose mercury news. mitt romney set aside partisan politics during a speech at a san francisco fund-raiser notice wake of the shootings. he praised president obama's trip to aurora as appropriate and befitting the office. he heads on an international trip to great britain, poland and israel later this week. and from "the new york times," the republican party in california which gave the country ronald rag cuban is struggling for relevance in california. no republicans hold statewide office and consultants say california republicans have a hard time attracting crossover voters. congressman kevin mccarthy, the majority whip in the u.s. house says "we're at a lower point than we've ever been. it is rebuilding time." >> wes?

>> from the oakland tribune, the front page says a' stounding as the a's sweep a four-game series against the yankees. only the first time since 2003 that the yankees have been swept in a four-game series. >> heilemann. >> las vegas review and journal as if getting married wasn't easy enough in vegas, the wedding wagon about will go where you are. the guys will marry you and your beloved for $99. the owners were sick of their corporate jobs and knew people wanted a cheap way to get married so they became ministers and started the business. >> we're inconvenienting, creating again. halperin? >> in the "miami herald," oswald dole peja was killed in a car crash sunday afternoon in cuba. cuban government called it an accident but his daughter said his car was struck multiple times by another car trying to take him off the road. he spent his life trying to

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wes? what did you learn today? >> i learned that every single day, 55 people are going to die in this country from gun violence. it's of our issues to deal with. >> john? >> i was reminded we really miss mayor bloomberg as a presidential candidate. it would have been awesome if he had run. he is a smart no nonsense guy talking about stuff we should all be talking about. >> i can't disagree with that actually. mark? >> the political truce of no negative campaigning and the post aurora period over the weekend has ended. the democrats are sending around a clip of mitt romney and secrecy when he ran the olympics. we'll be back today to attacks on both sides. >> mitt romney is going global. predictions? >> it won't get as much coverage as president obama's trip four years ago. >> if it's way too early, what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." right now back 0 washington for chuck and "the daily rundown." >> thanks, everyone. see you