will stand in front of a judge for the first time. his initial appearance is expected to be very short. police say right now, he's not talking about what happened or why and he is being held in solitary confinement. but we are learning more about the alleged shooter. holmes tried to join a gun club, just last month. the owner says when he tried to follow up, he got a bizarre voice mail message and told employees not to let holmes in, without checking with him first. >> the voice mail was a very low base, guttural-sounding, rambling, incoherent deal that was strange, bizarre, a little freakish. >> 12 people were killed, 58 wounded in this tragedy. 25 people, this morning, still in the hospital. nine remain in critical condition. and it's hard to imagine, but things could have been even worse. the shooter's gun, a civilian version of an m-16, jammed.

otherwise, he might have been able to fire even more bullets from a 100-round drum. and now we're hearing that quick-thinking police who responded to the scene could have mistaken the shooter for one of their own, but they knew something was off. >> he's dressed like a s.w.a.t. member. >> these guys were sharp enough to see that the outfit wasn't quite right and they immediately challenged him. >> thousands gathered last night for a vigil for the victims. the governor called it an outpouring of light and love. more powerful than any darkness. and president obama tried to comfort the community of aurora and the nation last night. >> i confessed to them that words are always inadequate in these kinds of situations, but that my main task was to serve as a representative of the entire country and let them know that we are thinking about them at this moment and we'll continue to think about them each and every day.

>> but we are just about 90 minutes away, we will for the first time be able to see james holmes and potentially hear him speak. let me bring in my guest now, former federal prosecutor, rick cornfield and criminal defense attorney. he also represented dylan klebold. also here, leonard posner, a criminal defense attorney. and rick, since you are here in colorado and know the law, let us know what's going to happen today. this is not an arraignment. >> no, not an arraignment. it's a first appearance or initial advisement. what's going to happen is mr. holmes will be advised of the charges that he is being investigated for. for our knowledge, he hasn't even been charged. so it's simply an indication of what they're looking at right now. >> in colorado, they have 72 hours to officially file charges, is that right? >> yeah, they have three business days, and that time can be extended either by agreement of the parties or the court on its own can extend that time if

if necessary. >> so, obviously, larry, this is just the beginning of what's going to be a very long process. here we have somebody who was seen by dozens, hundreds of witnesses, picked up at the scene in body armor, directed police, they say, to an apartment that was booby trapped. this is not a question of, was he the guy, as much as, right now, is he competent to stand trial. would that be a fair assessment? >> we have both competency and eventually sanity, and they are different standards. one can be competent and insane, one can be sane, but probably pass the competency test. we have some indications, though, that he is very mentally unstable. we heard about the very bizarre phone recording device and we are told that there's a mug shot of him taken on his arrest, with flaming red hair, and he calls himself the joker.

>> so what kinds of things would go into a competency hearing? what would his lawyer s be doi? what would the prosecutors be doing, larry? >> well, a competency is an initial question. can he understand the proceedings and can he assist the defense? and it is really a very low standard in order to be competent. however, the deeper issue in this case may well be sanity. whether he had a psychotic break and simply was so mentally ill that he was not who he ordinarily is. now, that's different than doing a thing that's unusual or out of character. psychosis or insanity is a complete break with reality. >> rick, you know this area. you know colorado law. how high is the bar on competency? what do you think are the challenges for his defense team?

>> well, i think larry's exactly right. the challenges are, it doesn't take much to be "able to assist" so the question is, does the person have a disease, a mental disease or defect? that may go to a later issue. right now it's, are you oriented in time, can you speak to your attorneys, can you help them, can you provide background information. so it is a very, very low bar. it's not to be confused with mental illness. there are hundreds of thousands of mentally ill people that are in the criminal justice system and that are filling the prisons of this country. it's much more than that to establish that someone is incompetent as a matter of law. >> we were wondering if we were going to hear from the defense or prosecution and we did hear from the d.a., carol chambers. here's what she had to say. >> the death penalty certainly will be considered in this case. what the decision will be, i don't know, but it will be a conversation we have with victims before we ever make a

decision. >> there are only three people on death row in colorado, as i understand it. two of them, however, have come out of the court here in arapahoe county. is there any doubt in your mind this will be a death penalty case? >> i don't think so. for a couple of reasons. number one, of the obvious nature of the crime. and number two, this jurisdiction is very enamored with the death penalty. the vast, vast majority of death penalty cases in this case are tried in that courthouse. i was involved in one seven or eight years ago. so i would be very, very, surprised if that decision was not made. now, the interesting thing is, carol chambers may not be the d.a. making that decision, because there will be a new d.a. in november. she's term limited. >> all right. let me bring in nbc analyst and former fbi profiler, clint van zandt, as i ask the lawyers to stand by. clint, front page of "usa today" and it's the question on everybody's mind, asking why. based on what we know so far, any clues at all what was

happening here? >> i think so. and again, i don't want to, you know, play freud here. we'll leave up to the psychiatrists and psychologists who examine him, but when we look at mental health issues, as your other two guests are talking about, one of the most obvious ones is going to be schizophrenia. that comes to the light in an individual normally between the ages of 15 and 25. it's about 6% of the u.s. population that suffer from that or that have at least a predisposition to that. and part of that challenge, part of that mental health challenge is your inability to separate reality from fantasy, your social skills are challenged, you're a loner. so these guys, notwithstanding the people who are throwing out terms like psychopath and

sociopath, i don't think that's the case. i think we're seeing a mental health issue and normally that's exacerbated by stress. and if he's been challenged this year, in the first year of a four-year ph.d program, that stressor and other things going on in life could have brought that on. do i want to build a defense for him? no. only about 1% of defendants ever use that can defense and only about half of that are successful. but maybe, just maybe, that helps us at least understand what took place. >> i was talking to a lot of people, though, yesterday, clint, and sadly, a lot of them were also involved in the columbine shooting. and you know, when you look at the two perpetrators there, you look at the case of gabby giffords, there seem to be signals that people saw. and almost immediately, after the shootings, we started to hear from people.

he's being called brilliant. he graduated with honors. and as recently as the last month, there was a report that we went on to an online dating service, as if he was trying to make some sort of life for himself. back some years ago, when he was in los angeles, he was working with little kids in the big brothers, big sisters program, in a summer camp, as a camp counselor. i don't know, it seems like, at least in this case, what we know so far is different than we've seen in the past. >> well, it is. and you're absolutely right. number one, this guy is brighter and younger than most mass murderers we've seen in the past. realize, chris, he put together this one-two punch. and my belief is that apartment, rigged with explosives, gas, acid, bombs, everything else, that was meant to go off before the actual shooting. i think he set that up, just

like, you know, yesterday, was the one-year anniversary of that terrible incident in norway, where an explosive device went off in the downtown area and then the shooter went out to an island and killed all those teenagers. i think this guy modeled himself after that. he wanted the explosive to go off, he wanted to take out the whole third floor of that building. police, first responders would have rushed to that apartment. and then he would have been free, at least in his challenged mind, to commit these terrible acts, without law enforcement responding. once that didn't happen, once police got to the scene, again, you and i say, well, wait, that's crazy, why wouldn't he let it go off anyway? well, there was something in miss mind that said, i don't need to do that anymore, and that's about the only way we can explain that, until we hear his own words. >> cliff van zandt, as always, great to get your insights. thanks very much. larry, obviously there's a lot we don't know now, and some of

the evidence will start to come out in future hearings, but based on what we do know, do you think this case will go to trial based on him being incompetent or possibly even a plea deal? do you think that will be possibly on the table? >> these cases take a very long time. i would not be surprised if we are having conversations about this a year from now. especially when there are psychiatric issues, the examination process can take months. it is easy to say, we know who did it, but when we try to figure out the mind of the person who did it, that's evidence not left at the scene of the crime. that's evidence back in growing up years, in medical reports, in neighbors who saw depression, in people who saw personality changes. and so that entire body of evidence is waiting to be found, investigated, put together, and i don't know that that has really begun.

>> rick, do you think this case will go to trial? >> well, i agree with larry. i think it's hard to say right now, but the real issues of the defense, i think, is your job if you're the defense lawyer, is can you save this person's life? he's going to most likely end up in a mental hospital or a prison or a combination of those two places for the rest of his life. so the mission goes not only to the issues we've been discussing, but ultimately, when the d.a. sits down with the defense lawyers and the defense lawyers try to convince the d.a. not to pursue the death penalty, that information is directly relevant to that decision. >> rick cornfield, thank you so much for coming over today. larry pozner, always good to see you as well. president obama met with victims of the massacre and told the story of two young women he met. stephanie davey helped save the life of her best friend, alli young, after ali has been shot in the neck. >> ali stood up and she was

immediately shot and she was shot in the neck and it punctured a vein and immediately she started spurting blood. and apparently, as she dropped down on the floor, stephanie, 21 years old, had the presence of mind to drop down on the ground with her, pull her out of the aisle, place her fingers over where ali had been wounded, and apply pressure, the entire time while the gunman was still shooting. ali told stephanie she needed to run, stephanie refused to go. instead, actually with her other hand, called 911 on her cell phone. and because of stephanie's timely actions, i just had a conversation with ali downstairs, and she is going to be fine. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement

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behind me is the arapahoe county courthouse, where at 11:30 eastern time, we will get our first look at james holmes, who, of course is going to be advised that he will be charged with murder for those heinous shootings inside the local movie theater on friday morning. in the meantime, president obama and mitt romney will resume their presidential campaigns today, after the weekend off, to honor victims of the mass shootings here in colorado. yesterday, president obama was here, he went to aurora to visit with the families of those who were killed, as well as the wounded. >> i come to home not so much as president, as i do as a father and as a husband. and i think that the recent stories like this have such an

impact on us is because we can all understand what it would be to have somebody that we love taken from us in this fashion. >> at a fund-raiser in san francisco, mitt romney toned down the rhetoric. he told the audience president obama did the right thing by going to colorado to comfort the victims' families. but now that the campaigning has resumed, will he be back to the nasty party sedan attacks that have dominated the conversation over the past several months. let me bring in david corn, susan page is washington bureau chief for "usa today." i don't know, david, maybe i just answered my own question, because we just got a tweet from obama's senior campaign adviser, david axelrod, who's out with this, "tax returns, bund hlers, bain, massachusetts records, and now key documents from the olympics. when it comes to secrecy, mitt

takes the gold." do you think we're going see anything different this week than we've seen in the past, and if we don't, is it too soon? >> i think we'll probably be ramping back up the intensity level of the campaign pretty soon. mitt romney does have a natural pause in that he's going overseas at the end of the week and then heading to the olympics. that may sort of tamp things down a little bit, but you're not going to put this genie back in the bottle. there are a lot of news stories that have come out in the past few days, including one i broke, that will end up becoming part of the campaign eventually, and each campaign is going to do whatever it takes to win in november. and you know, people may see it as nasty. you know, and sometimes it might be, but i think it's really going to be just incredibly intense as they keep fighting over that 6% undecided voters out there between now and november. >> susan, do you think there's any risk if they go back to business as usual or do you think people are pretty immune to it now, and they've just got used to the fact this campaign

has ratcheted up more quickly than we've seen in the past. >> sometimes these are big moments in america, when we have tragedies like this or inexplicable, and where so many innocent people die. and i sort of felt, as though people were trying to take a deep breath over the weekend, and so did the campaigns. i think there is some risk for campaigns in just immediately going back to the very harsh rhetoric that we've seen. it's like, and david, of course, is right. this is a big-stakes election, it's going to be really hard fought, but it was, i thought it was kind of nice when mitt romney said over the weekend that president obama did the right thing in going to colorado, and talking to some of the survivors and speaking as, speaking for the whole nation. and i hope that we might have some more moments where the rhetoric and kind of the focus of the campaign gets lifted a bit. but maybe that's naive. >> yeah, i mean, i certainly think that, you know, we haven't

necessarily seen any indication, except for the fact that the ads, the obama campaign has suspended the ads here in colorado, at least for the rest of the week. maybe there is also sort of a natural downtime, david. obviously, we had the olympics can coming up, and you know, we're in that period where a lot of people are on vacation, going into the vacations. is this a situation where you think the campaigns have lost a little momentum, or are they actually picking up some valuable time to sort of catch their breath? >> well, i think you're right. it almost feels -- i hate to use a cheap metaphor, but like halftime, because you come into the olympics. and a lot of what the campaigns trying to do strategically, in terms of portraying the other opponent, was to get it done before the olympics. because they realize, come the olympics, people are going to start paying attention to that. then again, people go on vacation, and then they sort of tune back in at the end of august for the conventions. and once more, they're playing to a very, very small slice of the public that are not decided.

and those are people probably not paying much attention to begin with. and if you look at the history of these things, the tragedy of the gabby giffords shooting and so on, or even back to oklahoma city, back in the '90s, they seem to have an impact on us for a week or two, you know, collectively in the media or the political campaigns and in congress, and then it kind of dissipates, pretty quickly, as soon as there's a reason to sort of throw the switch and get intense again or nasty again, it happens. so i think we'll see a return and there's not going to be any long-term impact because of this tragedy and we're certainly not going to be talking about gun control policy in a serious way either. >> well, let me ask you about that, susan. because, obviously, in a very tragic way, this has provided an opportunity for people, both outside and inside the beltway, who are interested in this issue, to raise it again. but is it likely to change anything, or is gun control going to be a serious topic of discussion in this campaign in

any way on either side? >> i think the short answer is, no, we saw no inclination on president obama's part over the weekend tone gauge on the issue of gun control. and, of course, mitt romney has opposed gun control, as additional gun control as a presidential contender. so it's hard to imagine that mayor bloomberg's plea for the candidates to talk about it is going to have much effect. democrats feel that they've really been burned by that issue. that when the swing states or places like ohio or pennsylvania, that they lose politically when they talk about gun control, so despite this tragedy, i would not expect there to be any kind of serious debate on gun control this year. >> susan page, david connor, always good to see you. thanks so much. >> thanks, chris. vice president joe biden, mitt romney, and extra security for one of hillary clinton's top aides. you're watching a special

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to politics now where next hour mitt romney holds a fund-raiser in irvine, california, and next week president obama will speech in reno. >> as your commander in chief, and on behalf of a grateful nation, i'm proud to finally say these two words, and i know your families agree, welcome home. >> vice president biden will address the national association of police organizations. he's speaking at their annual convention in palm beach county, florida. and the "new york post" is reporting that huma abedin, a top aide to hillary clinton and wife of former congressman anthony weiner, is now getting police protection. she was threatened after

congresswoman michele bachmann accused her of having ties to the muslim brotherhood. and if you read only one thing this morning, a lot of people are struggling with what to do after the violence here in colorado. my must read is a guest column in the "denver post" by a state senator entitled, "in the face of hate, love back." it's up on our facebook page at facebook/jansingco. going on 11. in the blink of an eye, they're all grown up. marie callender's homemade tastes are another great reason to sit down and savor every last moment. ♪ because time flies... right before your eyes. marie callender's. it's time to savor. we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations,

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deadly rampage. nbc's miguel almaguer joins me now with the latest on their conditions. miguel, good morning. what do you know? >> chris, we know that nine of these people, 9 of the 25 still hospitalized are in critical conditions. and we've also heard more stories about ashley moser. she brought her 6-year-old daughter, veronica, the youngest victim that was shot and died right next to her. side. there are reports that she was pregnant, that she was shot in the abdomen and it's unclear if her child has survived her not. such a devastating loss for her to lose her 6-year-old daughter and now this news. >> and we have heard just yesterday, we started reporting via the denver mayor, that among those nine who are in critical condition, some of them still have life-threatening injuries, they're not out of the woods yet. and most of them are at the hospital where the president was yesterday. >> think about it, chris, when the shooting happened, so many people were injured and were shot at close range. and those are many of the people

who are still in critical condition. and of course, as you mentioned, they're still suffering from life threatening wounds, some of them may not turn the corner. the number from 12 that are dead could rise dramatically. of course, everyone's holding out hope for the victims, was it's still a touchy situation at the hospital. >> one of the thing s i heard from a number of people in this area, and you look for small silver lining, is that so many procedures changed after columbine in this area, and the response of the emts, the response of the hospitals, and frankly just people on the scene made a difference. it's hard to believe, but it could have been worse if they had not had that kind of training, had so many hospitals with really well-trained trauma units. >> yeah, and you and i heard those dispatch calls, where there was police radioed into the dispatch center that were saying, they're taking these victims in the back of their police cruisers. they simply could not wait for these ambulances. you can imagine the chaos and the panic that was happening at the crime scene. police in such a rush to get the victims who were so gravely injured to the hospital.

they picked them up, put them in the backseat of their cruiser and drove them theirselves to the hospital. >> amazing stories. as always, miguel, thank for coming over and giving us that update. and we showed you a little bit of the vigil. thousands of people were there. they were expecting 5,000. by one estimate, there was double that. and that is where aurora mayor steve hogan said the tragedy would, in fact, empower this community. >> we will take this experience and use it to strengthen our commitment to each other. we will reclaim our city in the name of goodness, kindness, and compassion. >> joining me now is sarah castellanos, a reporter with the "aurora sentinel," the local newspaper. good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> third largest city in colorado, you've worked here for almost three years. tell us a little bit about what it was like here early on friday morning?

>> it was complete chaos. i mean, everyone was just trying to find out exactly what happened and people were -- i was at the movie theater about 6:30/7:00 in the morning and people were just scared. there was a lot of fear in the air. a lot of just trying to figure out what exactly had happened and people were still in shock. >> and the community, to a person, i got here mid-day friday as well, and you talk to people, they were already looking for ways to move forward. ways to find opportunities to make good come out of this evil. last night, i thought it was remarkable, they had less than 72 hours, they put together this beautiful prayer individuvigil. it was really something, wasn't it? >> yeah, thousands of people were there. i have never seen that many people at city hall before in my life. it was just amazing to see the outpouring of support that came from not only people in aurora and the community, but also outside of aurora and

surrounding neighborhoods. i've talked to people from englewood and even people out of state that were there at the vigil. so it was really, really nice. >> people standing for hours, many of them families. and i thought for me, one of the most amazing moments came at the end when they were leading them from the stage in "amazing grace" and all of these people were singing. >> yeah, it was phenomenal. it was a great experience. >> do you think it helped -- i mean, obviously you do this the because you want people to have an opportunity to start to heal, to come together, to grieve. as somebody who not only reports on this community, but is a member of this community, do you think it helped? >> i do. i really think that a lot of people were just so happy to see how much community support there is, for the victims and the victim's families and also, you know, not only from aurora residents, but from the entire nation. >> sarah castellanos, it's so great of you to come over.

thank you so much. >> thank you. >> a program note, mayor steve hogan will be coming up right here at 11:00 eastern. the tragedy has inspired an outpouring of support around the country. just 20 miles away, outside of aurora, survivors from the 1999 columbine shooting are banding together and reaching out by phone and on social media to try to help. nancy kronk, a fellow coloradans, felt compelled to come to aurora to provide comfort to the community, just as she did in the wake of the columbine massacre. i saw her first at last night's vigil, where she was making ribbons and handing them out as a small gesture to help the grieving. you can see her there, she was standing right below where our live location was, and there she wandered into the crowd and started handing out those ribbons, as she did in 1999 at columbine. nancy kronk joins me now live. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you.

>> i have to say, i was very moved when i saw you yesterday. and you were standing right beneath me, and you were just cutting the ribbons. and i could see the emotion in your face, because you were also listening to what was being said and the prayers and the words of encouragement. why do this? >> i'm a member of this community. i've lived here 21 years. i raised my family here. it's a wonderful place to live. it's a safe place to live. and i care about these people. one of my son's friends from high school, his father was killed in the theater. there were a number of people that were friends of friends, that were injured. >> for a large community, this has a small town feel. it does seem like everybody seems to have some connection to it. but you had done this at columbine as well, right? >> i did. columbine, so i live on the south end of aurora, near

centennial, at the border. so kind of in between the columbine/aurora area, and it's the same thing. when columbine happened, it was someone's babysitter and someone's next-door neighborhood. you know, this is my community. i love this community, i love these people. and i had some training in crisis counseling years ago, and soy thought, i'll put that to use, and the ribbons that i make, there's nothing special about the ribbons. they're just ribbons, but it's an opportunity, it's an excuse to talk to people that normally would be apprehensive to talk to somebody they don't know, so when i go to the grocery store or gas station or restaurant and i just give them out to people. >> and what's their reaction? >> they're usually, for a second they say, are these free? and i say, of course. and i just tell them why i'm doing it with, and it usually prompts a conversation about how they -- the connections that

they have. and it gives -- it's an excuse to give people an opportunity to talk about what happened and to tell another person that maybe they were at the movie theater or they know someone or someone at their church. and it's an opportunity to have a conversation, so they're just ribbons, but if i make hundreds of ribbons, that's hundreds of conversations where i can offer someone support. >> well, it's a wonderful thing, i think, that you're doing, and i've seen so many examples of people reaching out in this community and really moving forward and trying to make good come of bad. so thank you so much for coming and talking to us. >> thank you, i appreciate it. >> i appreciate it. there is other news this morning and we want to get you caught up. ncaa fines penn state $60 million and bans the university from bowl games for four years after an investigation accused ex-coach joe paterno and other top university officials of covering up child sex abuse allegations against jerry sandusky. nbc's national investigative correspondent michael isikoff is at state college, pennsylvania.

and michael, just off the top of my head, this sounds like it's got to be unprecedented? >> reporter: it is, chris. these are very devastating sanctions for penn state and this entire community. that $60 million record fine, that's the equivalent of the entire one-year revenue of the penn state football program. it goes beyond that, though. a loss of 40 scholarships over four years. that's key to penn state's ability to recruit athletes to come play at the school. banning, no bowl games for four years, and perhaps the cruelest blow for the legacy of joe paterno, the vacating of all his victories between 1998 and 2011. he was known as the most winning coach in major college football history, more than 100 wins are now wiped off the slate. that's no longer the case. but the real impact here is, what does this do for penn state

football, which was so crucial to the economic engine of this community, and the identity of the school. and if it can recruit and put on a top flight football team, if it can't play in ball games, basically, something that has been central to penn state for decades has been really, severely hit here, all a result of that jerry sandusky sex abuse scandal. >> michael isikoff, thank you so much. just about half an hour ago, sir elton john took part in a public reading of the names of people who have died of aids. it's part of the world's largest aids conference getting underway in washington today. john will deliver the keynote address later this afternoon. more than 20,000 scientists, policymakers, and people living with hiv are taking part. and still ahead on this special edition of e"jansing and co co.", live from colorado, the rekindled drug debate. richard lui will take a look at how the suspect got his arsenal

in this digital age. we'll be right back. time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. sherri williams wanted to offer customers a unique workout. she offered inner diva in austin, introducing people to the pole dancing fitness phenomenon. it was a hit. she also joined the pole fitness association, which is working to get the sport into the 2016 olympics. for more, watch "your business," this sunday morning at 6:30 on msnbc.

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wow, there it is. in just about 45 minutes, in the arapahoe county courthouse behind me, we will for the first time since the shooting that killed 12 people and hurt 58 actually get an opportunity to see the suspect, james holmes, and perhaps hear from him as well in what is expected to be a very short hearing. in the meantime, on msnbc's "morning joe" today, new york city mayor michael bloomberg called on president obama and mitt romney to explain what they'd do to stop guns violence. >> during the next presidential term, you will see 48,000 americans shot with illegal guns. how can you run for that job without having a plan of, what are you going to do? >> msnbc's richard lui is here now with a look at guns in america and what has become a

rekindled debate over gun control. richard, good morning. >> good morning, chris. the aurora shooting suspect invested almost $6,000 on his arsenal $1,100 for his ar-15 assault rifle, $1,500 each for a glock .40-caliber handguns, and his remmington 12-gauge shotgun, $400. fueling those guns, 6,000 rounds bought online, his body armor, including helmet, almost $1,000. as these details emerge, so, again, has the gun control debate. >> weapons of war don't belong on the streets. you know, we've got to sit down and really comes to grips with what is sold to the average citizen in america. >> everything should be looked at, but to think that somehow gun control is, or increased gun control is the answer in my view, that would have to be proved. >> as for the candidates, president obama wrote this after the tucson shooting last year. "we should check someone's

criminal record before he can check out at a gun seller. there's room for us to have reasonable laws that uphold liberty, ensure citizen safety, and are fully compatible with a robust second amendment." governor mitt romney in 2007 said on the issue, "when the brady bill was first passed, there really wasn't the kind of internet that we have to make an instant check. today, we can." going on to say, "i don't think for a minute that checking someone's background to make sure they're not a criminal or they're not insane is in any way a violation of the second amendment." but critics like new york mayor michael bloomberg want more. they point to years like 2010, when 171 firearm injuries and 24 deaths happened every day, on average, according to the cdc and fbi. while home gun ownership has trended down from the '90s, as you see here, in the last year it has ticked up slightly to 47% in terms of home ownership, according to gallup. now, objection to a handgun ban has hit an all-time high. that's gone up, up to 73%, saying no ban is needed.

now, the reason, perhaps, here, as political rights, democrats who embraced a ban are gone, and those in office have had tough fights with the gun lobby. >> thank you so much, richard. i want to bring in new york congresswoman, carolyn maloney. it's good to see you. and i just want to reiterate what you know and most people probably know by now, is that police say james holmes was armed with an assault rifle. it had a 100-round drum magazine capable of firing 50 to 60 rounds a minute, and when that apparently jammed, he had two other weapons. tell me about your bill that would address these high-capacity assault weapons. >> well, i truly do believe it's time for congress to act and i'm the cosponsor of a bill authored by my good friend and colleague, carolyn mccarthy, that would ban the high-capacity ammunition magazines that are attached to these guns. and this would not in any way infringe on someone's right to own a gun or to hunt or to have

target practice. it would not infringe on anyone's right to self-defense, but it could save lives. in this case, he had 100 rounds. there was no chance for people to overpower him or to escape. and i don't believe that these military-type weapons and these magazines should be out in the streets of america, in new york or any other place. >> let me ask you, let me ask you, congresswoman, to answer the argument that's been made on the other side. i've heard it, and i know that you have heard it. after the shooting, here's what folks said to me. they said, even if there were laws in place banning this, it would not have changed the outcome. if you have a lone disturbed individual who's bent on destruction, he showed at his apartment he was capable of building incendiary devices and wreaking havoc in other ways, that in fact you can't prevent destruction by someone who's bent on doing it. what would you say to people who

make that argument? >> i would say that truly, there's some mad people, they're terrorists, they have mental health problems, and no particular law or measure is the complete answer. but steps can be taken to save lives. and to make it safer, in america, to go to the movie theater, for goodness sakes. and there is no reason why you have 100 rounds of ammunition. that is just an assault weapon killing machine. and i personally believe these magazines should be banned. they serve no purpose, but to kill people. so why in the world are we allowing this? it's time to have a practical, national conversation on steps we can take together. this is a national problem, and it is going to require a national bipartisan solution. but we need to act. and congress should begin this debate and take steps to protect our citizens. >> congresswoman maloney, thank

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back live in centennial, colorado, where in about 45 minutes, we will see for the first time, accused gunman james holmes. but last night at the vigil, the biggest applause came when the governor said he and the president would not mention the name of the gunman. they wanted the focus to be on the victims. and so we show you their faces, ranging in age from 6, the oldest, 51, the father of two teenage daughters. the largest group of those died, those in their 20s. two members of the military and three among the many heroes who died saving friends' lives. so we remember them as well. that's going to do it for this edition of jansing and company, live from centennial, colorado. thomas roberts is up next. he'll have complete coverage of james holmes' court appearance. >> the agenda next hour, as chris points out with, the world waits for the first appearance

by james holmes. he's the accused gunman of that movie massacre there in aurora. he's going to be going before a judge. our live coverage, we'll take you back there. then the aurora mayor, steve hogan, will be our guest and how they are raising money to help the shooting victims who remain hospitalized. and the ncaa deals with a deep blow to the penn state football program after the sandusky scandal, but does everyone agree with this? and the so-called death penalty was not delivered, but will the football program be able to rebuild the culture there? we're back with more. of any small business credit card! pizza!!!!! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! put it on my spark card! [ high-pitched ] nice doin' business with you! [ garth ] why settle for less? great businesses deserve the most rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet?

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ is set to appear in court minutes from now. coming up later this half hour, and the courthouse just being 13